I think the hero, and the artist should be switched. I see an artist as more so of a creator wanting to leave a mark or the world through innovation, and the hero as someone who wants to uphold order and structure through their strength, and courageous acts. That’s just the way I see it though. Overall this video was really helpful. Thanks for sharing this. Videos like this really help me improve my skills as a writer so I really appreciate it. ❤
This is a really good point! If we switched the Hero and the Artist Archetype, we would also switch their soul and ego labels (which I think works even better now!) Good observation, I might have to make an updated diagram in the future! Thanks for watching 🎉
@@abstractyouth I think soul could still work for an artist. In Black American culture, we use soul a lot to describe people whose heart, passion, and energy can be felt in their artistic expression. Like soulful music, or soul food for example. And hero’s need to overcome their ego to do what’s right, and evolve as a hero. But even if they were flipped I think it could still work. Hero’s put their heart and passion into their ideals, and artists have to overcome their ego to reach new heights as a creative.
Hey! Just a thought: not all heroes fall under the "order" category. Katniss in the Hunger Games tends to be more chaos than order (hence the contrast with other characters like Peta or even Haymitch who, even though chaotic, tries to impose structure on Katniss. Batman is also against the "order" currently in place in Gotham. I think it's good to know those "theories" and then innovate :)
Yes, the “Fool” and “Innocent” label can be used interchangeably because they both represent a character that is ignorant; however, because of that they are not afraid to aim high, try new things, and face the unknown. Depending on the story, their ignorance can be a hindrance or a strength… or both!
Dude, thank you so much for making such an informative and insightful video! I really appreciate the concepts that you researched and relayed to us! Well done!
And here I thought I was just making a character that was a heroic blood knight. Someone gleefully wandering in search of new battles and helped others because she saw hurting non combatants as a weakness of spirit, all while laughing and living life up.
@@Yuvieend That’s an interesting one! I’ve seen some sources claim the destroyer archetype is the same as the Rebel Archetype; however, although both archetypes can involve elements of disruption and challenge to the status quo, the destroyer is more about the inevitable process of destruction, while the Rebel is more about reform perhaps - so it could be its own thing? Some other examples/ideas could be: - Shiva holds one of the most prominent roles in Hinduism as the god of destruction, so this could be an example of the destroyer archetype? - In Greek Mythology, Ares is the God of War, so this could be another example? - In many monomyths, there’s discussions of destruction and then renewal throughout the hero’s journey, so maybe the destroyer could play into this metaphorically/abstractly? I think there’s a lot of different things that can be done with a destroyer archetype. All of these paradigms are frameworks or models of understanding storytelling, so it definitely is up for interpretation!
hi, you explained that the the soul types want to find and build their authentic identity and the ego types want to reveal the center of their unconcous identity. how are they different? and its not fit to what i understood the will of the self types with some of the charachters that relate to that division. ill be happy if you can explain me those differences. thx
The archetypes that fall under the Soul category want to find a deeper understanding of their true self (their authentic identity, who they really are deep down); whereas, archetypes that fall under the Ego category want to find out what they truly believe in (their conscience identity, what they truly believe is right and wrong ethically). Soul types embark on journeys in search for their personal identity, while Ego types embark on journeys because they feel it is their duty to do so. Of course, this is just a framework and many characters fall into multiple categories, especially well-written/unique ones. I hope this helped, and thank you for watching! Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question. For the self types we have characters who are driven by the desire to feel connected and contribute to the world (to make a difference in the world to prove their existence is meaningful). These characters are concerned with their role in society and what they can contribute to the world. The sage’s pursuit of knowledge, the rulers pursuit or order, the Magicians pursuit of power, and the Jester’s pursuit of happiness are all examples of the perspectives of life’s meaning. The Soul type asks “Who am I?” The Ego type asks, “What do I believe in?” And the Self type asks, “Does it even matter?”
is there a connection of the use of the terms Ego,Self and Soul for the theory of jung about the consous and unconsous in every person? i mean like the ego represent the persona which the ego characters driven by what the society will think about them and the opposite - the soulwhich represent the shadow, driven by their desires? @@abstractyouth
@@omerlaba9227I’d say while the Soul, Ego, and Self types drew inspiration from Jungian psychology, their interpretation within the context of character archetypes is a simplified and adapted version. They serve as a framework to categorize/understand character motivations and behaviors, but they may not align precisely with Jung’s theories. Pretty cool when psychology and literature collide! 💭📖
I think characters can be multiple archetypes, and Jack Sparrow definitely seems to fit the explorer Archetype; however, I placed him in the rebel archetype for the following reasons: The Explorer archetype falls in Quadrant 1 where the characters’ purpose is to find peace and paradise on their spiritual journey; whereas, the Rebel archetype falls under Quadrant 4 where the characters’ purpose is to live a life that leaves a mark in the history books, tales and legends. Both archetypes are similar as they both aspire for some type of “Freedom/Liberation” but the Explorer’s purpose is more of an internal aspiration, while the Rebel’s purpose is more of an external aspiration. Some proof of this is Jack’s infamous response to his captures insult of being the worst pirate they had ever heard of by saying, “But you have heard of me.” I would agree that Jack Sparrow’s job is being an explorer (since he’s a pirate), but his purpose is to always rebel against the government, the system, society, and pretty much everything that gets in his way of breaking free from the oppression of the modern day treatment of pirates. Like I said though, characters can fit in many archetypes and I can see why someone would put Captain Jack Sparrow in the explorer category!
I wouldn't say "need" as a rule: they are tools to be used when appropriate. Shorter and/or simpler stories benefit more from archetypes IMO. They can also assist with character creation. Most of my major characters tend to fall under 2-5 of the archetypes you went over here and I don't think any of them are overextended. But I started off with some kind of archetype or trope for most of them and expanded/twisted from there. Side characters may be better off with fewer traits because it can be a waste of narrative space to flesh them out much more and they are more likely to have a specific role to play. But like all rules that can be broken and it does depend on how much time you have to develop them. Opportunity cost and all.
@@DeboraBarrosDBX Thanks! And the ego, self, and soul types describe the characters driving force in the story (what ultimately motivates them to do what they do.) “Soul types want to relate to a deeper process of finding and building one's authentic identity…” “…Self types want to feel connected and to contribute to the world…” “…and Ego types want to reveal the center of their conscious identity.”
Definitely pretty slow at the beginning, but hopefully you still found it useful! We tried to pick up the pace in our latest video (The Different Types of Monomyths), along with adding music and better audio quality. Let me know what you think and thanks for watching!👍
I think the hero, and the artist should be switched. I see an artist as more so of a creator wanting to leave a mark or the world through innovation, and the hero as someone who wants to uphold order and structure through their strength, and courageous acts. That’s just the way I see it though. Overall this video was really helpful. Thanks for sharing this. Videos like this really help me improve my skills as a writer so I really appreciate it. ❤
This is a really good point! If we switched the Hero and the Artist Archetype, we would also switch their soul and ego labels (which I think works even better now!)
Good observation, I might have to make an updated diagram in the future! Thanks for watching 🎉
@@abstractyouth I think soul could still work for an artist. In Black American culture, we use soul a lot to describe people whose heart, passion, and energy can be felt in their artistic expression. Like soulful music, or soul food for example. And hero’s need to overcome their ego to do what’s right, and evolve as a hero. But even if they were flipped I think it could still work. Hero’s put their heart and passion into their ideals, and artists have to overcome their ego to reach new heights as a creative.
Hey! Just a thought: not all heroes fall under the "order" category. Katniss in the Hunger Games tends to be more chaos than order (hence the contrast with other characters like Peta or even Haymitch who, even though chaotic, tries to impose structure on Katniss. Batman is also against the "order" currently in place in Gotham. I think it's good to know those "theories" and then innovate :)
Really liked all the character examples with each archetype! The intro at the beginning was very helpful.
Thank you for the feedback! I’m glad you found those helpful. Is there anything else you’d like to learn in future videos?
I've never heard of these terminologies. The innocent, for example, I knew as the Fool archetype.
Yes, the “Fool” and “Innocent” label can be used interchangeably because they both represent a character that is ignorant; however, because of that they are not afraid to aim high, try new things, and face the unknown. Depending on the story, their ignorance can be a hindrance or a strength… or both!
Great video super helpful!
A piece of (unsolicited) advice 😅: your phone mic if it’s within the last handful of years should sound better.
Dude, thank you so much for making such an informative and insightful video! I really appreciate the concepts that you researched and relayed to us! Well done!
And here I thought I was just making a character that was a heroic blood knight. Someone gleefully wandering in search of new battles and helped others because she saw hurting non combatants as a weakness of spirit, all while laughing and living life up.
Thank you for posting ... a very informative and useful video. Appreciate your amazing explanation and content🙏🙏
Learned a lot
that was so informative!
Thanks for the tip 👍
Bro I got the destroyer architect what's that mean why there is no information about it
@@Yuvieend That’s an interesting one! I’ve seen some sources claim the destroyer archetype is the same as the Rebel Archetype; however, although both archetypes can involve elements of disruption and challenge to the status quo, the destroyer is more about the inevitable process of destruction, while the Rebel is more about reform perhaps - so it could be its own thing?
Some other examples/ideas could be:
- Shiva holds one of the most prominent roles in Hinduism as the god of destruction, so this could be an example of the destroyer archetype?
- In Greek Mythology, Ares is the God of War, so this could be another example?
- In many monomyths, there’s discussions of destruction and then renewal throughout the hero’s journey, so maybe the destroyer could play into this metaphorically/abstractly?
I think there’s a lot of different things that can be done with a destroyer archetype. All of these paradigms are frameworks or models of understanding storytelling, so it definitely is up for interpretation!
hi, you explained that the the soul types want to find and build their authentic identity and the ego types want to reveal the center of their unconcous identity. how are they different? and its not fit to what i understood the will of the self types with some of the charachters that relate to that division. ill be happy if you can explain me those differences. thx
The archetypes that fall under the Soul category want to find a deeper understanding of their true self (their authentic identity, who they really are deep down); whereas, archetypes that fall under the Ego category want to find out what they truly believe in (their conscience identity, what they truly believe is right and wrong ethically). Soul types embark on journeys in search for their personal identity, while Ego types embark on journeys because they feel it is their duty to do so. Of course, this is just a framework and many characters fall into multiple categories, especially well-written/unique ones. I hope this helped, and thank you for watching!
Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question. For the self types we have characters who are driven by the desire to feel connected and contribute to the world (to make a difference in the world to prove their existence is meaningful). These characters are concerned with their role in society and what they can contribute to the world. The sage’s pursuit of knowledge, the rulers pursuit or order, the Magicians pursuit of power, and the Jester’s pursuit of happiness are all examples of the perspectives of life’s meaning. The Soul type asks “Who am I?” The Ego type asks, “What do I believe in?” And the Self type asks, “Does it even matter?”
is there a connection of the use of the terms Ego,Self and Soul for the theory of jung about the consous and unconsous in every person? i mean like the ego represent the persona which the ego characters driven by what the society will think about them and the opposite - the soulwhich represent the shadow, driven by their desires? @@abstractyouth
@@omerlaba9227I’d say while the Soul, Ego, and Self types drew inspiration from Jungian psychology, their interpretation within the context of character archetypes is a simplified and adapted version. They serve as a framework to categorize/understand character motivations and behaviors, but they may not align precisely with Jung’s theories. Pretty cool when psychology and literature collide! 💭📖
Jack Sparrow was not a rebel he was an explorer that why he loved being free on a ship.
I think characters can be multiple archetypes, and Jack Sparrow definitely seems to fit the explorer Archetype; however, I placed him in the rebel archetype for the following reasons:
The Explorer archetype falls in Quadrant 1 where the characters’ purpose is to find peace and paradise on their spiritual journey; whereas, the Rebel archetype falls under Quadrant 4 where the characters’ purpose is to live a life that leaves a mark in the history books, tales and legends. Both archetypes are similar as they both aspire for some type of “Freedom/Liberation” but the Explorer’s purpose is more of an internal aspiration, while the Rebel’s purpose is more of an external aspiration. Some proof of this is Jack’s infamous response to his captures insult of being the worst pirate they had ever heard of by saying, “But you have heard of me.”
I would agree that Jack Sparrow’s job is being an explorer (since he’s a pirate), but his purpose is to always rebel against the government, the system, society, and pretty much everything that gets in his way of breaking free from the oppression of the modern day treatment of pirates.
Like I said though, characters can fit in many archetypes and I can see why someone would put Captain Jack Sparrow in the explorer category!
Do you think characters need archetypes?
I wouldn't say "need" as a rule: they are tools to be used when appropriate. Shorter and/or simpler stories benefit more from archetypes IMO. They can also assist with character creation.
Most of my major characters tend to fall under 2-5 of the archetypes you went over here and I don't think any of them are overextended. But I started off with some kind of archetype or trope for most of them and expanded/twisted from there.
Side characters may be better off with fewer traits because it can be a waste of narrative space to flesh them out much more and they are more likely to have a specific role to play. But like all rules that can be broken and it does depend on how much time you have to develop them. Opportunity cost and all.
@@DeboraBarrosDBX Thanks! And the ego, self, and soul types describe the characters driving force in the story (what ultimately motivates them to do what they do.)
“Soul types want to relate to a deeper process of finding and building one's authentic identity…”
“…Self types want to feel connected and to contribute to the world…”
“…and Ego types want to reveal the center of their conscious identity.”
Man, isnt psychology something
This video never gets to the point ughh!
Definitely pretty slow at the beginning, but hopefully you still found it useful! We tried to pick up the pace in our latest video (The Different Types of Monomyths), along with adding music and better audio quality. Let me know what you think and thanks for watching!👍