Dear Sir You do museum quality craftsmanship . and you're voice is very easy to listen to , and most of all , you don,t leave out any questions about the subject , very complete
Thanks for this great overview! I was always wary of these, because the results looked too thin and flimsy, with orange peel distortions. But it seems, they can handle styrene with a thickness of slightly under 1mm just fine.
I found that the plastics for vacuum forming seem to be expensive...especially when you are experimenting...so I tried some different clear plastics...One that worked quite well is the 'Face Shield' that we get in the UK (they have 'Face Shield' written across a blue band and have a sponge on the rear)...altho a little thin...I made a bubble canopy for the Revell Beaufighter 1/32 scale...Milliput seems good to make the solid mold...My only issue was gluing the canopy to the model...I tried CA but it fogged...and the PVA type canopy glues are never very good as PVA is made for porous materials like wood and paper...When used for plastics it it doesn't penetrate and so uses a static adhesion which is easily broken...
Your approach here is most valuable for its innovation and utility. I have a different take on this method. Mine is largely theoretical, however, so I bring it to you to determine its viability, and its practicality to the purpose I intend. I have avoided vacu-formed kits. Their assembly invariably has proven exasperatingly problematic. The parts' surface detail also suffers considerably. The polystyrene kits of sailing ships generally feature the sails fashioned of very thin polystyrene sheet. (Incidentally, would you or any of your comrades know the thickness?) These have no issues of precision in parts fit. At the worst, one at the end must excise any excess. In working with such thin material, I have contemplated something that one could apply to a strikingly different application, one that offers to modelling a remarkable innovation I have not seen. I have no idea as to how to proceed, however. In specific, my purpose is to alter a 1:25th scale (or similar) model of a generally conventional vehicle (car, truck, etc.) to represent the damage from a collision. The actual application would be a custom job specific to each kit. One somehow must make a precise duplicate of the body, or the portion relevant to the build. One can adapt vacu-forming to this purpose. This might include the bonnet (hood) and/or the boot (trunk), depending upon the specifics of one's project. This process must capture the exact surface details of the original (or, one later must reconstruct them). One next must 1) determine which portion(s) of the vehicle's body is (are) to receive the alteration(s); 2) cut away what one no longer needs (save the remains for another purpose; I keep my sprues, every scrap cut away, even the dust from sanding, grinding, drilling, etc.); 3) identify the corresponding portion on the altered vacu-formed sheet, carefully cutting it free; 4) fit it into place, and assemble; 5) somewhere during this process--one must determine where this ought to occur--one must press the thin polystyrene to rework it into the shape representing the crumpled damage and deformation sustained in a collision. One then would paint the model, and detail the altered part to illustrate the additional indications of crash damage. The bonnet may be bent up vertically. Other parts of the kit, e.g., the windshield, may have their own signs of destruction. A wheel or a door may be out of place. The driver and/or passenger(s) may show signs of injury, possibly severe.
Hi Paul, do use the kit provided canopy as part of the form? I tried and it warped due to heat. I have air-hardening clay for the base to try now. So glad you are so passionate for scale modeling and very scientific in your approach. I'm learning a lot and having fun, thank you!
Hi, Paul, I guess I didn't understand the process in forming vacuforming canopies. I believed the kit canopy was used as the pattern and the new canopy was molded over the kit canopy. I got air-hardening clay as the rest of the pattern for the base. When done, the kit canopy melted in some areas. I have one of the machines featured in your video ( imported blue / red one ). In your opinion and experience, is there any way to use the kit canopy as part of the pattern successfully? Thank you.
Hi Paul, Great video, I just invested in the vac former you showed. I'm trying to make canopies. It seems that Evergreen sheet is only available up to .015" - the canopies are too thin to be trimmed/handled. Do you have any recommendations for sourcing the 0.04/.06 clear sheets? thanks
Only to make moulds, not transparent parts. Iprint both resin and FDM 3d prints. But you can't create transparent thin parts with them so i will use the resiin 3d priinting to create the mould to be used to vac the transparent styrene.
I am having a problem where my .060 styrene is getting so thin when I push down that the part is unusable. What advice can you offer to help solve this problem? I have tried to heat the sheet less, but details don't come out. The styrene seems to get wavy first, when heating, then it droops very quickly (usually within 1-2 seconds) and gets too thin. Any help appreciated.
I usually heat the material more slowly by not raising it so close to the heating element. If it is drooping that quickly, you're probably all the way up to the element.
why isn't the heating element under the plastic as heat rises? I built a former years ago and put the element high way between the plastic and the form never had a problem now everyone is putting the elements above yet heat rises it's IMO less efficient.
Your idea is sound from the standpoint of heat efficiency, but practically, it's easier to build a machine where the heating element is more fixed. And these compact machines are really built on the scale of economy and ease of operation. In a more commercial setting, dealing with larger sheets, we use ovens to heat the material.
In college (I studied Technology Education at SUNT Oswego), we used a larger vacuforming machine; the heating element slid over the plastic, and when the plastic was sufficiently heated, the element would be slide away while the vacuum was turned on. As the heat in this case is radiant heat, the element being above the work is not really an issue. Heat rising is much more of a convection issue.
Dear Sir
You do museum quality craftsmanship . and you're voice is very easy to listen to , and most of all , you don,t leave out any questions about the subject , very complete
Thanks for this great overview!
I was always wary of these, because the results looked too thin and flimsy, with orange peel distortions.
But it seems, they can handle styrene with a thickness of slightly under 1mm just fine.
I just bought my mini vacuum thermoform machine and I love it it works great! I can mass produce alot of my molds I make.
I found that the plastics for vacuum forming seem to be expensive...especially when you are experimenting...so I tried some different clear plastics...One that worked quite well is the 'Face Shield' that we get in the UK (they have 'Face Shield' written across a blue band and have a sponge on the rear)...altho a little thin...I made a bubble canopy for the Revell Beaufighter 1/32 scale...Milliput seems good to make the solid mold...My only issue was gluing the canopy to the model...I tried CA but it fogged...and the PVA type canopy glues are never very good as PVA is made for porous materials like wood and paper...When used for plastics it it doesn't penetrate and so uses a static adhesion which is easily broken...
Your approach here is most valuable for its innovation and utility.
I have a different take on this method. Mine is largely theoretical, however, so I bring it to you to determine its viability, and its practicality to the purpose I intend.
I have avoided vacu-formed kits. Their assembly invariably has proven exasperatingly problematic. The parts' surface detail also suffers considerably.
The polystyrene kits of sailing ships generally feature the sails fashioned of very thin polystyrene sheet. (Incidentally, would you or any of your comrades know the thickness?) These have no issues of precision in parts fit. At the worst, one at the end must excise any excess.
In working with such thin material, I have contemplated something that one could apply to a strikingly different application, one that offers to modelling a remarkable innovation I have not seen. I have no idea as to how to proceed, however.
In specific, my purpose is to alter a 1:25th scale (or similar) model of a generally conventional vehicle (car, truck, etc.) to represent the damage from a collision.
The actual application would be a custom job specific to each kit. One somehow must make a precise duplicate of the body, or the portion relevant to the build. One can adapt vacu-forming to this purpose. This might include the bonnet (hood) and/or the boot (trunk), depending upon the specifics of one's project. This process must capture the exact surface details of the original (or, one later must reconstruct them).
One next must 1) determine which portion(s) of the vehicle's body is (are) to receive the alteration(s); 2) cut away what one no longer needs (save the remains for another purpose; I keep my sprues, every scrap cut away, even the dust from sanding, grinding, drilling, etc.); 3) identify the corresponding portion on the altered vacu-formed sheet, carefully cutting it free; 4) fit it into place, and assemble; 5) somewhere during this process--one must determine where this ought to occur--one must press the thin polystyrene to rework it into the shape representing the crumpled damage and deformation sustained in a collision. One then would paint the model, and detail the altered part to illustrate the additional indications of crash damage. The bonnet may be bent up vertically. Other parts of the kit, e.g., the windshield, may have their own signs of destruction. A wheel or a door may be out of place. The driver and/or passenger(s) may show signs of injury, possibly severe.
Hi Paul, do use the kit provided canopy as part of the form? I tried and it warped due to heat. I have air-hardening clay for the base to try now. So glad you are so passionate for scale modeling and very scientific in your approach. I'm learning a lot and having fun, thank you!
Thank you for the compliments. , The form was made from heat cured dental acrylic.
Hi, Paul, I guess I didn't understand the process in forming vacuforming canopies. I believed the kit canopy was used as the pattern and the new canopy was molded over the kit canopy. I got air-hardening clay as the rest of the pattern for the base. When done, the kit canopy melted in some areas. I have one of the machines featured in your video ( imported blue / red one ). In your opinion and experience, is there any way to use the kit canopy as part of the pattern successfully? Thank you.
I'll have to see if I can afford a Dental Vacuum Former. I've already got several ideas for uses!
Just ordered on Amazon the vac machine. Now will test soon
Hi Paul, Great video, I just invested in the vac former you showed. I'm trying to make canopies. It seems that Evergreen sheet is only available up to .015" - the canopies are too thin to be trimmed/handled. Do you have any recommendations for sourcing the 0.04/.06 clear sheets? thanks
Very informative. Now I need to find a used dental vacform machine.
Or make a vacuum forming machine... easy as pie.
Superb!!
So we can use tamiya styrene? Like clear styrene 0.3mm?
will 3d printers replace the dental vacform machine?
Only to make moulds, not transparent parts. Iprint both resin and FDM 3d prints. But you can't create transparent thin parts with them so i will use the resiin 3d priinting to create the mould to be used to vac the transparent styrene.
I am having a problem where my .060 styrene is getting so thin when I push down that the part is unusable. What advice can you offer to help solve this problem? I have tried to heat the sheet less, but details don't come out. The styrene seems to get wavy first, when heating, then it droops very quickly (usually within 1-2 seconds) and gets too thin. Any help appreciated.
I usually heat the material more slowly by not raising it so close to the heating element. If it is drooping that quickly, you're probably all the way up to the element.
@@scale-model-workshop I'll give that a try. Thanks!
why isn't the heating element under the plastic as heat rises? I built a former years ago and put the element high way between the plastic and the form never had a problem now everyone is putting the elements above yet heat rises it's IMO less efficient.
Your idea is sound from the standpoint of heat efficiency, but practically, it's easier to build a machine where the heating element is more fixed. And these compact machines are really built on the scale of economy and ease of operation. In a more commercial setting, dealing with larger sheets, we use ovens to heat the material.
Thank you
In college (I studied Technology Education at SUNT Oswego), we used a larger vacuforming machine; the heating element slid over the plastic, and when the plastic was sufficiently heated, the element would be slide away while the vacuum was turned on. As the heat in this case is radiant heat, the element being above the work is not really an issue. Heat rising is much more of a convection issue.
Because the material drapes OVER the master.
DIY yourself a vacuum forming machine...Checkout the videos on UA-cam...If you are a modeler you already possess the skills to make one
This work area was too small for me, so I bought a bigger one on Amazon
Why didn't I think of that? Not very expensive, either.
Where do you get your 0.040 and 0.060" styrene sheet? I can't find it online. I have a dental vacuforming machine very similar to yours.