The Superkart Decline & How to Fix It!
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- Superkarts are an incredible feats of engineering, but numbers aren't what they use to be. How can it be fixed?
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The preface of this video reminded me of the WRC. Used to be bigger than F1 now a lot of people just don't know about a championship that has arguably the best drivers on earth
This is another great video Alan and yes, gearbox kart racing is a not even a shadow of how it was in the 1980s when I was racing. Martin Hines was a one man promo machine who did so much to promote gearbox kart racing from his relentless appearances on main stream TV to his larger than life persona on track... and yet if you phoned up Zip Karts for advice, he'd happily spend time chatting to you on the phone or at a meeting. When he took his foot off the gearbox kart racing throttle, and eventually sadly passed away that end of things took a sharp nose dive. The second issue is technical development. Back in the 1980s, a Superkart could lap many tracks at F3 speeds. Since then single seaters have evolved and are so much quicker. Superkarts haven't. The delta between to F3 is much bigger today. Very little has been done with aero. Very little has been done engine-wise and tyre development has all but stopped. Finally the cost. Superkarts were always expensive [in comparison to Class 1] but they're the cost of a club single seater now, for ostensibly club level racing. You've made some great suggestions but the zeigeist of the 1970s/1980s just isn't there today. We're enveloped in wokism where new ideas need to be 'sustainable', EV based - see Formula Student for example. Weird and whacky, as we want it, no longer appears to have the mass appeal that it would have had in the 1970s. Anyway... enough of this negativity. My final [and most important] point is that Motorsport UK should bite the bullet and put you in charge of kart racing in this country. Your proven track record with 100cc and rucsack of ideas is what it needs right now.
Martin’s book is a great read about those days.
In Australia l was drooling over a bargain 125 kz but when l made inquires with nearest club.. was discouraged by the $500 race entry fee .
I think of Karting as an economic issue, right now you have track owner, Governing body and suppliers all licking their lips when some rich dad wants to live vicariously through their future F1 Champion. Too many people taking money out of the sport and only the driver or drivers dad putting money in.
If we could get viewership, then we could simply give prize money. What made NASCAR and F1 what it is today was prize money meaning the guy in last didn't break the bank and the top half making at least minimum wage. Once we tip that balance karting will be a pro series again.
Its an issue in Australia too. Can't run a superkart on a sprint kart track, due to different governing bodies (at least 3 sprint and 2 super). Car track meetings are expensive, it can be cheaper to buy a Hyundai Excel series (series is in massive growth) car to race than a Superkart. Soon the most populated state will be back to two normal car tracks.
Another issue we see is people want to win in the top class straight away, not spending time developing through series. Have seen many go buy a KZ2 for their first sprint kart, then not even be allowed on track due to not having the required class of licence.
Another good vid.
A interesting side line on this story is the Japanese yen exchange rate back in the 1970. The cost of Japanese motorcycle gear back then given the exchange rate from yen to pound then was staggering cheap. Massive numbers of very inexpensive reasonable quality Japanese road and off road bikes (with potential gear kart motors) were being imported. These days the Japanese yen exchange rate means that the host motorcycles and parts to maintain them are up round 4 times the cost as it was back then.
@@malibu188 astute observation
Another great video Alan filled with nothing but valid points. Only the other day did I stumble on a video about the Kart GP in 1993… I was looking for 1992, but alas there isn’t one. In that video it had Tony Mason (RAC Rally Report) as a paddock reporter & Graham Smith doing the commentary. Proper 1990’s stuff. There were competitors from all over the world, where are they all now?
Why did the GP stop being the special weekend it once was? I raced in the Cadet race in 1991 or 1992 (I can’t remember which) and that was my last ever Cadet race. We even did laps of the National Circuit ahead of the GP Finals, waving at the crowd, which was big in itself. I hope SuperKarts can thrive again, and if MSUK could pay attention to you that would do the whole of karting some good.
Final point, despite my surname, I don’t believe I’m related the Rushforth’s who have always seemed to be a mainstay of Gearbox karting
Weirdly, I think the addition of Cadets was part of the problem. Once you have children involved in the meeting, by its very nature, it has a junior vibe to it. It becomes about the 'future stars' of motorsport rather than the current ones. The Superkart GP lost Daily Express in 87 and introduced Cadets. The programme that year had a forward by the BRDC boss instead of a sponsor, and rather than the bullish no nonsense comments it talked about the Cadets that year and being future stars of F1. obviously being there as a a young cadet driver would have been great, I think it's partially was symptomatic of a karting culture moving away from the 'elite' side of it and moving towards the 'stepping stone' side of things.
The event also had to deal, I assume, with rising costs and diminishing entries. So many factors.
@@AlanDoveKarting you’re probably absolutely right. As a kid it was great to be there, racing on a makeshift circuit & for me, being able to watch the superhero’s driving at unimaginable speeds. But yes, all of a sudden it becomes clear that for some, karting is a stepping stone, a platform for the future superstars, and loses the fact it’s a sport in its own right. Until this year, the past 7 years, my job has been running a Ginetta Junior team. However, I always stood by my belief that staying in karting for longer would be more beneficial for drivers. In fact, I had an unwritten agreement with Shenington, that I’d never discuss my work unless I was asked. We went to Shenington to race with my son & son-in-law, never to poach. I’m in a position now where I’m far more excited by karting, and contemplating Retro TKM myself, and work (no longer in Ginetta Junior, or any Junior car championship) is just that, work.
Formula Student has been going for 25 years now and seems more popular than ever today.
It’s another boomer effect. We’ve aged out of any strenuous or dangerous activities and there are so many fewer bodies in the later generations that it’s natural for many motorsports to shrink dramatically or die off altogether.
The problem is the cost to get started now days. The chassis are too expensive , engine prices are even more out of line . If you compare to entry level mx or road racing a entry level class , karting start up cost is twice as much even for a 125. Karting will never grow at previous levels.
OK so I'm your in your target demo, young professional engineer, interested in designing and developing racing vehicles. There are two reasons I'm not involved, 1. I haven't got a clue where to start, goggling superkarting is a mess. 2. I can't drive a normal cart, i have a damaged shoulder so I can't cope with the forces in any non power assisted steering system I've ever tried and I've never seen a kart with such a system.
@@necron1050 yes... it is s mess. I agree
I have always said if I was going back karting I would go gearbox. Kz1 first then 250s
I've raced superkarts foe years in the States. That throne idea is way. Bring back the glorious yamaha TD3. Cheap and blinding lyrics fast. Look great as well.
Superkarts were a support category when F1 was in Adelaide.
I used to spanner for a 125 champion in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s when the Daily Express/Hermetite British Kart Grand Prix was a gearbox karting fantasy land, with super-innovative machinery and huge grids, topped-off with a healthy dose of spectators and TV coverage. But, even by 1987, when I was racing and started winning, costs were creeping up and the level of innovation on the chassis side was diminishing. By the end of the 1990 season I could no longer afford to compete.
In 2015, perhaps foolishly, I bought a second-hand 250 twin outfit for a good price and competed in a few rounds of the French Superkart Championship over a couple of seasons. The running costs were astronomical… tyres alone - if you wanted to stand a hope of being competitive - would cost more for a single event than for an entire season back in the late ‘80s!
One aspect of the Superkart’s problems in the recent past seems to have been a division within the long circuit community, with two separate clubs running their own championships but I don’t know if that’s still the case. A thought-provoking insight, Alan… keep up the good work.
@ryanbaptiste249 great comment. I could definitely go into way more detail. Obviously, the 256 took over from the Yams... which over time made things more difficult cost wise.
I remember the 80s at Fulbeck lots of villiers run by mainly Old boys 36 to 70. Happy Days
This is so sad but true. Allot of people want to compete in karting weather it be superkart or other but its just too expensive, there's too many stupid spec rules, too many different classes all with their own daft rules and too much general hassle to even get started. I bought a kart last year to fix up and race, I have now given up. it will be a toy to blast around the car park at work and that's it. see you on assetto corsa.... its just easier.
I’m a millennial (mech engineer), that currently races karts (KA100 and LO206). I already have the trailer, tools and infrastructure in place. The reason Superkart racing essentially doesn’t exist comes down to cost. Why would I spend $15000-$20000k on a kart plus 1k per weekend in tires and engine rebuilds (averaged) when for the same cost, I could go car racing? In my mid 30s, I’m a weekend (gentleman) racer, certainly not going to earn a paycheck racing, it’s simply not worth the cost to go “faster” in a kart.
I would catch a grenade to make this sport widely adopted. I'd love to have an anderson chassis and a pvp engine a track with a few open days and a club race league.
So much truth in here I'm not sure where to start..
I have given up road racing, and now doing track days because of cost and time. I would love to kart, but at 6’5” and 250 lbs I doubt I would be comfortable or competitive. And in the USA karting is even more dead than in Europe.
I tried making karting videos in 4 stroke and the tracks and MSA would not allow a camera even in the paddock. So with not being able to make videos there was no way I could hope to keep paying for karting. So I had to quit.
Sim racing has sucked a lot of adults out of karting. I ended up spending quite a few grand on sim racing gear, but it's just better value. With the money I saved not karting, I built a Caterham 7. The last time I raced my 125 Rotax, I got totalled on the 2nd corner of the first heat, phuck that for a game of soldiers.
id love a go in one of these but truth is i cant afford more than racing the retro tkm karts with 100uk
Well, I can say that the biggest hurdle for me to get into outdoor karting was cost. I figured to get into karting it would cost me an initial investment of around $10,000 - $15,000. That would be a trailer, kart, engine, 2 sets of tires, a set of rains all of these mounted on rims, tools, fuel, kart stand, transportation to and from the track which was about an hour and a half away (90 miles). Now I know I might have been a little excessive on tires, but I saw the track and I could easily see a cut tire happening. Then the upkeep on the kart and money started to get very thin very quickly. Also, how do I get a sponsor when I have no record to show how I do? With today's economy thanks to Bidenomics I'm sure the cost is even higher than they were 20 years ago. That's why karting is dyeing with adults. The cost is just too much if you have a family. Oh, you could do like I heard one wife put it, her husband had spent all of the liquid cash they had on his kart and now they did not have any money to pay their employees that worked for them. That is just plain stupid, greedy and selfish. For many adults I believe sim racing has replaced karting. I know what I spent doing indoor karting in 20 months is still more than the almost 15 years I have been with iRacing.
LOL....yeah...karting in the UK, and everywhere will get cheaper if Trump is elected. Most idiotic comment ever.
This video feels like a cry for help.
In germany superkarts are pretty much non-existend.
Ich drive a shifter 125cc as a hobby, and the first things i noticed when i started were:
1. U literally can not get much information at all, and when u start to find information that remotely clsoe to your question u get pretty much overwhelmed with information, u dont even need.
2. In the sport theres pretty much 99% pro-drivers, with a whole team, huge budget, new engines and karts pretty much every season, which makes it pretty impossible for someone who's just trying to see how it feels actually racing.
3. 50% of People at the tracks are not happy seeing someone new "blocking" their way to the perfect lap, i get it, new drivers are almost impossible to predict on the track, but cmon u gotta show them and not give them weird looks in the box
4. Why is every team so secretive, dude you are racing a homologated chassis, homologated engine, and if a new driver wants to see how they can change their chassis to fit their style of driving, dont send them away, they are looking for help not trying to steal your setup and beat you.
I have to add there is still alot of people, that are trying to be helpful, and in a bad aituation u will always find most of the people in the box trying to help you out, but before u see that kind of community, u get greeted with weird looks, eye rolling and not many answers.
Cost, less disposable income for the average family, pussification of our youth, phones and the computer. Those things will not change and will actually continue to get worse. Karting and amateur racing will never be what it once was. Ever.
In general, weren’t people more.. prosperous in the heyday? More disposable income available? Super karts are rad! But are also wicked expensive! And with respect to the driving ladder system the super kart doesn’t really fit in. You can’t really take away any of the driving experience and apply it to the open wheel formulas other than sheer bravery. Everything you advocate for tells me what you actually want is a super premium super karting championship (limited and high quality entry’s) not a high entry count formula. Put together a HUGE prize award for race wins and winning the championship and you’ll get those entry’s.
There is plenty of money being spent to go racing over there, the super kart formula doesn’t make enough sense to be a key part of those high$ drivers progression. Perhaps a pivot to 125cc shifters or TaG / DD with aerodynamic bodywork and racing on relevant circuits would interest some of those drivers.
No promotion to schools of various backgrounds and ages . There is a plethora of future people to carry on ANY sport , hobby or activity. People in any and all activities get stuck in a narrow mindset of not sharing and promoting and reaching out to OTHER people who might like the same activity but don't know it EXISTS. No one thinks of going to schools OF ALL ages genders and cultures to share a passion in a sport. Tap the the educational system where kids are begging to learn and release their Boredem and Routines !!!
I think the simple problem is that searching this sport is very difficult & time consuming, when you could be doing something else or simply give up out of frustration.
I have seen these different karts before but it took me a long time to pin point my search words, I actually didn't know this was called super kart a second ago, even though I've found it a while back.
You guys need to literally put the name of the sport on your karts if you actually want people to find you, no disrespect, no keyboard warrior voice.
I'd be there but I just can't afford it
i think you have a different problem, there is just no easy entry. how is someone going to know they will like it withought investing all that time and money? like an American anologe for what you are doing is land speed racing there is nothing stopping you from showing up in the car or motorcycle you drove over there on and makeing a pass. then alright i like it lets pick a class and build a car. now you dont have to go that far but maybe kart rentals? motorcycle track days and schools here do both bike and gear rentals so all you have to do is show up with money to see if you will like it.
same thing largely happened to supermonos, once the refuge of student teams and garage drivers. engineering programs got less and less practical, schools don't want to sponsor ICE racing, gap years or retaking a course is a financial death sentence, and the class bled. Also later in life, even with two engineer salaries, even a small apartment is hard to afford. A garage and a hobby that needs hundreds of hours and wrecking 10k's is hard to justify. Finally, it seems every motorsport eventuallly goes the route of "we need drivers to compete in equal machines". it has it's place, but not every place. Folk racing gives a fantastic example, some safety rules, a very simple budget system, don't take it all too seriously. If less than 20% of competitors fail to finish the race, your class lacks innovation.
"If less than 20% of competitors fail to finish the race, your class lacks innovation." I'm stealing that. :)