The SF6 Season 1 Final Tier List!
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- WITH ALL THAT'S SAID AND DONE, THE GAME IS REALLY IN A VERY GOOD PLACE BALANCE-WISE!
The way the balance has shaken out in Street Fighter 6 has turned out strong. Obviously some characters need help, but at the top level, the game has some strong parity between the top characters. Here's where James feels everyone has ended up!
== TIME STAMPS ==
0:00:00 Intro
0:01:53 The Terrific 10
0:03:22 The Top 5
0:11:19 The Other Top 5
0:24:54 The Worthy Challengers
0:29:15 These Guys Need Help!
0:40:43 Final Adjustments
0:49:04 Closing Thoughts
Find the UA-cam version of this episode here:
• The SF6 Season 1 Final...
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/ sf6s1endtierlist
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#FGC #Esports #Podcast - Ігри
I still have my Kimberly statue on my desk!
As i see it, jamie is being held back by his drinking mechanic, he has all the tools of the top tiers but worse, cancellable 2mk (short range), divekick (awful hurt box even on startup), anti fireballs ( unsafe as hell and slow), dp reversal ( situational hitbox), specials needs to be spaced well to not get punish by 6 frames move( good luck with luke). Frames on hit usually lead to lights. That's why he is strong and weak at the same time. You can see capcom is holding him back. I wish he has more representation because he is fun to watch. I use him as my main character because i have so much fun with his kit.
Yeah. He and Kim suffer from a LOT of similar issues, namely that they start off weaker than everyone else and Capcom seemed really scared to make them strong.
Not only is everything you said true but he also suffers from having a “multi-step gameplan”. Unlike most characters he doesn’t just get the hit and go from there - he needs to work around his drink mechanic. The fact that he’s lackluster until getting multiple drinks means that he often has to give up *multiple* instances of oki to actually reach the point where he’s a pretty good character.
From day 1 I knew every character that has this issue (Jamie, Lily, Honda, Manon to an extent, Ryu to an extent with Denjin) was going to be on the weaker side except Juri - because her Fuha stores are an actual attack that she can easily end blockstrings with, use in combos, and even use to cancel out projectiles. Not to mention the fact that Juri isn’t crippled by not having stores, she just gets more upside when she has them (better combo damage and fireball drive rush). Manon is another character that just plays her game normally since her medal system is also gained from landing hits, but unlike Juri she actually needs to land successful conversions / command grabs in order to power up. Juri can just do pokes > fuha store on block, or sneak them in playing neutral.
Yup. I’ve often said how elegant the Oki and corner pressure has become in this game. It’s so strong and that Jamie has to give that up a couple of times is crippling. It’s wild that it’s only a couple most of the time but that’s enough. If Jamie existed in Super Turbo, he’d be a lot better. Hahaha. You don’t have to get Oki all day in that game. I just feel like it’s the crazy nature of SFV and SF6 where knockdown and Oki are soooooo important. In a lot of other games, it was a lot easier to survive Oki and even if you were hit, it wasn’t a scary “Vortex” type situation. I miss that sometimes. I miss games where the Oki is weaker and your reward is the damage and then you get back to Neutral. It’s a lot of snowballing in the last two SF games so much that Jamie and Manon sacrificing those for their powerups isn’t worth it and hurts them so much.
40:08
I do think Manon is better than Gief. I think she has better pokes overall and her anti airs actually work. And at least she has a wake up level 1 and 2.
Gonna give some extra explanation as to why Jamie is still low tier. Like you pointed out his tournament results haven't been good and that's putting it lightly. He's arguably been the worst performing character competitively since the games release which is saying something. I believe he was also the only character in the game to not be represented in a single Capcom Cup qualifier top 8 by someone maining him. Now this is confusing to some people because like you said he has almost everything on paper which is considered strong in SF 6. Drive rush cancellable st.mk and cr.mk, drive rush st.hp, an OD reversal and a bunch of other tools. In my opinion his biggest weakness comes from the drink mechanic itself. While Jamie does have a lot of tools, most of them are locked behind at least having 2 drinks and even then most of them are worse versions of tools other characters have. His dive kick is worse than Cammy's, his anti fireball tool is pretty damn bad, his b.hp is just Luke's supressor but worse and while his command grab gives different rewards (good oki and good damage only if he uses the OD version) it has no range whatsoever so if you're anywhere but in your opponents face it will whiff. He also has less than 100% damage before 2 drinks and only at 2 drinks does his damage become sort of okay (still not great). People complain about his palm a lot but the Jamie has to space it perfectly just to make every version aside from the OD one safe. Compare this to something like Cammy's spin knuckle in which the heavy version is plus on block. He has a DP but it has almost no vertical range and is two hits which results in people falling out at certain ranges and it can be baited by certain things which halt air movement (I think Jamie is one of the only characters with a DP who can't DP a Zangief who halts his air movement with SPD). Because Jamie has such low damage at round start and has to go for drinks in order to become a decent character I'm willing to bet he has to win the most amount of interactions with his opponent on average out of the entire cast.
Overall yes he's a character who technically has all the tools to succeed but he has to work very hard to gain access to those tools and by the time he has them the round is probably nearly over anyway. If the Jamie is losing and is down to 30% health left and has zero drinks then good luck trying to make a comeback. I implore people to check out Cat Cammy's stats online. Jamie has consistently been one of the two characters with the worst win rates in 1800+MR even including after his buffs. The buffs were good but the best players are still struggling to make him work.
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Jamie does 1080 damage on throw before drinking, also. I get some of your frustrations with Kimberly, but shes nowhere near bottom 3.
I used to believe so. But again, I did say this was going to be more biased by my experiences. And it’s so hard to not just see everything Capcom did to hold her back. It’s the problem when you main a character: the flaws just stick out like a sore thumb. Thus why a player like Mena would call Luke overrated.
I was a Kim main. I've put SF6 on pause until there is a character that I enjoy playing and can somewhat identify with better. Hearing that she's bottom five only strengthens my decision.
I feel your kim pain brother D: Id rate modern kim even lower. Shes lacking too much and her run stuff being direction based instead of light, med, heavy, special based makes her AA runstop inconsistent 😥
I gotta admit, I laughed pretty hard when you reached for the last mid tier character and you grabbed Honda instead of Kimberly
Ryu is the most down played character. He’s ranked low purely because Luke and Ken are better. He’s not judged by his abilities Judy’s how he measures up to two of the best characters.
Idk, i personally think Kim is top of low. I think she as pretty decent normals, and neat wall carry, imo. As well as elbow drop to bait out anti airs.
But that's just my opinion as a Gief main. Whenever I fight a good Kim, it's mix up city to me.
Use cr. LP you got this.
@@ArcChristelleor stand Lp if your ken or any one with a standing 4 frame
I think it's stupid when people say they "don't know why tier lists are so popular". Use your brain. You seriously can't comprehend why talking about the strengths, weaknesses and matchups would draw attention from a community of people who cherish the game?? It's like saying I can't understand how anime nerds watch videos about Superman vs Goku... It's literally the most interesting, all-encompassing topic for a fighting game. You have to consider everything about every character.
I have a Q. Why make a final tier list a week before the big patch of the season?
Because this is the point in the game where characters /the game in general is the most developed before s2 changes everything
Because content. Everyone do it now. It's not something bad to anyone, but it's because every content creator needs content
Tier lists are an opportunity to know the expert's opinion about the chars you play with or against. You can get some useful tips or contemplate better ways to take a matchup, or even become interested in a char you had not properly seen before. They are interesting and entertaining because they have the potential to be useful.
Videos about Goku vs Superman are totally useless, boring, and stupid, even if you are an anime nerd like me. Stop making them, they are garbage.
It does come across as disingenuous. tier list aren't perfect, but to pretend to not understand why they are popular is a little much. You can understand they are flawed and still get why people like them lol
Blanka to you is Dee Jay to me. I still think that character is top 2. That guy's damage genuinely feels like the result of a programming mistake or oversight that they're just kinda running with.
One of the tech guys in the FGC noted that both Blanka and Dee Jay have far less moves that scale their damage compared to everyone else. So you’re not wrong.
And I totally get you. Dee Jay is a NIGHTMARE to fight. He’s mental stack overload (and so is Blanka, tbh). You just have to be ready for feints, as he’s usually open for counter pokes when he does them. They’re just insanely fast. :-(
Whenever I see DeeJay, I feel like I lost at the character select screen as a Jamie main 😭 I hope Akuma saves me from his madness
subjective tier list right?
yes... Because it's his opinion. Placing Kim in bottom 3 alone should tell you that.
All tier lists are subjective. I said it right at the beginning that the tier list was gonna be very much based on my biases. Haha.
I want to believe Kim is better. I’ve spent so much time believing in her. I was expecting someone to have a breakout performance with her at a huge major. But as time advanced, her performances got worse and worse. She simply wasn’t doing any notable damage in any major. Granted, the whole bottom 5/6 isn’t doing damage either, which is why they were all down there, but I just see everything Capcom did to hold her back and it’s maddening. Also, it hurts remembering some of the things she had taken away because of the beta. If the beta never existed, I’d probably have her ranked higher.
Should have left ed out of the list, since he's brand New, and you'd have a perfect 4x5 tiers list
I considered it, believe me. Just to satisfy my OCD. ^_^
Dude the DJ is absolutely top tier.
You are 100% correct. Haha. Remember, the entire top 10 in my list ARE top tier and where they fall exactly will be subjective. But NO ONE is wrong, IMO. That’s how close the tiers are.
Just for kicks, I'm curious where you would've put Guy and Yang at in USF4, James? Hearing you talk about Kimberly just puts a smile on my face for the struggle Guy used to go through. Granted, going back and look at some old videos, he oozes damage and his frame traps, while tricky, DAMN, do they hurt.
As for your tier list, I get it. I prefer doing top, high, mid, low myself. Jamie might be the only one I'd actually argue is stronger than Honda, but I've seen more Jamie than Honda. Who wins that match btw? I've never seen Honda vs Jamie.
The other argument would be Ed. I'd just make another tier saying "not much info". Other than that, hearing the explanations, I get it.
Personally, I hate Blanka and think he's #1. 😆 Stems all the way back to SF2.
I can’t remember that far back currently. Hahaha!
@@UltraChenTV Haha, fair enough.
I think it's a huge mistake to constantly spam "every character can win" as a qualifier. It severely undermines any points being made about balance and comes off like a cop out
I've seen this phrase a lot during SF6 where it seems like people are more afraid of offending the devs than ever before
There's nothing wrong with saying "This character sucks" and letting that point stand on it's own
I purchased this game for no reason, where he hell is Sakura, I will not play until then
So many contradictions in one video 🤣.
Such as? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m legit curious what you felt were contradictions?
@@UltraChenTVJust things like saying it's your personal tier list and you feel Honda isn't being played correctly, so you placed him in mid tier to begin with above Zangief, Jamie, kimberley, Lily. Which would be fine on its own, but to then go on to a character like Jamie or kimberley and say they have to be low tier purely based on tournament results is where the contradictions happen because now its not a personal tier list. Tournament results should mean zangief is above honda purely from snake eyes, making it to capcom cup. No honda player go close to qualifying. Some kimberley and Jamie players won their local events but I don't ever remember seeing a honda win one. So the main contradiction was mixing tournament and personal together depending on which character you were talking about.
Oh. I don’t think it’s a contradiction. Namely because my tier placement largely is based on tournament wins (MY criteria that no one else needs to share) that is skewed by my personal opinion. Tournament results isn’t a de facto was to measure a character’s strength. ^_^ It’s just a way I can justify my takes on some characters. You’re right, I have a “feeling” Honda is stronger than people say. But he’s really the main “lower” tier character I feel that way about because when I watch Hondas play, I feel like they are doing something wrong. With Kim and Jamie, I feel like they are playing them largely optimally and STILL not getting results. Honda to me is like a weaker Blanka: because of their archetype, people generally don’t use them correctly. Blanka is getting the shine because people are really learning how cheap he is. But Honda, even in SFV, people just give up on him without me ever seeing someone really try to play him more nuanced. Maybe I’m too influenced by UltraDavid and his opinion as a Honda player. Hahaha. But I really do feel like people aren’t using him to him full potential. That’s really the main difference with him and Kim/Jamie.
@UltraChenTV With his more obnoxious options getting toned down and his fundamentals getting boosted in this patch, maybe people will have more incentive to actually experiment with thr character instead of just relying on 2 moves
Low tier or not, I’m still ride or die for Kimberly 🙂↕️🤷🏾♂️
I keep saying I’m gonna switch BUT I JUST CAN’T QUIT HER
@@UltraChenTV Nothing or no one will ever make me drop her. I WILL perfect Kimmy! ✨
buff kim
Im envisioning street fighter 5 ultimate edition with 20+ dlc characters and core system changes. Thats the game I personally want. Season 2 is hype though, especially since we have system changes and dont know who the next wave of dlc is. Its exciting! Bro, you dont seriously think Kim is worse than Lilly? Her and Mannon are bottom 2 imo, Kim has real rushdown and mixup. You're showing your own bias lol. I might admit gief is worse than i gave him credit for, but now you gotta realize kim is better than you think 🤔
Tbf I'm never scared of Kim. But I hate fighting Manon, lily and gief on ranked lol
I seriously rather fight a 1000 Lukes in a row than fight a good lily player
@@junior1388666 really? Their aren't even that many good Lilly players. I'm tried of seeing the same 6 or so characters over and over personally. Especially when everyone I play outside of blanka is a struggle bus
@@666slateran666 there are some good lily's with high MR in my region (brazil). It's just I have to play in such a boring way to win neutral against her. Cuz condor spire is so cheap and her buttons are impossible to whiff punish.
Luke is pretty good, but he's basically ryu. I can just play regular neutral against him. Specially since his 2mp got nerfed, now I can whiff punish his ass lol
@@junior1388666 I rather take a small combo from Lilly or a spd than a giant reward punish combo Luke gets every time. It's apples and oranges imo, I'm a grappler player in general so I don't find fighting them annoying.
@@666slateran666 yup, never whiff anything against luke lol.
I just hate having to guess so much anytime they drive rush, and getting punished so hard just for blocking. Anytime I lose to gief I just feel like I got robbed.
I dont really agree with the idea that luke doesnt need drive gauge for his combos. His big flash knuckle combos basically have to start with down heavy punch. The only way to land that without drive gauge is getting punish counters after specefic buttons at point blank range, or just a jump in. Anything else he basically is forced to drive rush cancel (same as a lot of characters.) What makes luke strong is how much damage he gets from that, and just how strong his buttons are.
Lukes drive gauge situation is really good, but not bc of his combos, its bc he is a very slow/methodical character. Luke isnt spending drive gauge to get in, or for extended pressure sequences. He plays a very patient game, contantly chipping at your drive gauge with his fireball and amazing buttons, then making you explode when you mess up.
That is a very good point. I guess what I was trying to say is: once he gets the hit, he doesn’t need to spend much for damage and corner carry. Even when doing the same fishing, characters like Cammy and Juri have to spend so much more to get MORE damage. Their BnB’s are super weak without extra meter. But once Luke gets that hit, he’s rewarded without much meter spent. And that’s very nice. But you are right, to land that crHP, he certainly needs to spend meter for the DR Cancel a lot of times.
@UltraChenTV Yea that makes sense, I definitely agree. All of his drive rush cancels lead to down heavy punch, and since they do he can do whatever he wants afterwards.
And while big punishes (di, jump ins, dp punish) aren't super reliable to get, being able to get whatever type of combo he wants, while not spending any drive gauge is extremely valuable with how much drive gauge you build back.
I am sorry dhalsim is way to high. I dont know why pros cant admit that dhalsim just isnt good in this game
Brain F has him bottom 2, which I think is more accurate. He has to take too many low reward risks, and one bad read means you are in the corner getting mauled.
I don't he's not bad but not good either, especially against those that don't have projectiles and are grapplers that Dhalsim blows them up easily.
There are times I watch this character and he seems impossible to beat. When FChamp was entering ICFC, Uma, the Capcom Cup champion, could barely touch him with Juri. I think he’s VERY hard to use well, but when you do, Dhalsim is a nightmare to fight against.
WILD you dont put Cammy top five. Shes easy top 5. DJ and cammy are in top 5. Not JP and Ken
James downplaying Cammy? No, never
True
Completely agree, the cammy downplay is insane
Wait, what ? Nooo o o o
Yeah. I talked about that a lot in the video, that many many many people will take issue with my Cammy placement. My only concern is that with how much people talk about her being super strong, her results at big majors is HUGELY underwhelming. I’ve done analysis on it a lot with the Offline majors and Capcom Cup etc. and Cammy never places well outside of Punk. Like right now, without naming Hurricane or Punk, who is doing consistently well at Majors with Cammy? With Luke, Ken, and JP, you can name several players. But Cammy… like… who?
And my ultimate #1 argument that Cammy isn’t top 5, and this is unrefutable and ironclad: Xiao Hai doesn’t play Cammy. 😈😈 Xiao Hai has never shied away from top tier and he used Cammy all day in SFV and uses Ken and Juri over using her. Why wouldn’t Xiao Hai use Cammy in SF6 if she was that strong? 😏That is my unarguable proof. Hahahaha! ^_^
The game is dead, I wanted to throw it on and play a little. Impossible to get a match. It's like, I'm punished for not playing this game day and night foe the last year and now I'm completely ostracized from playing. Wtf?
It's definitely not dead. You got some other issues.
Depends on where you live. Some regions have had trouble because of their matchmaking. They did add an option to relax matchmaking restrictions, but I heard they didn’t help some players, but I’d look into it for sure.
@@MrMooMoo088 USA East....the game is dead. Ten minutes plus per match because I'm in Gold with Manon and didn't worship the game until I failed my way to Master rank. Get matches every ten seconds in Tekken 8 and every other game I own. Dead game. As a matter of fact I instantly remembered why I dropped this game, zero matches or fight the same person repeatedly.
@rabbyd542 I get matched in 10 secs on the same server any night SF or Tekken. That's weird sry. I also don't know what worshipping is I take weeks or months off SF all the time
@@MrMooMoo088 what rank you playing at?
Woah Dee Jay not being in top 5. How could you say something so controversial yet so brave?
I really am not sure tbh. Haha. I just ran out of room. Maybe moving JP down and Dee Jay up would work. But it really makes no sense at all that he’s not top 5 in my list, because Dee Jay is a nightmare to fight.