Man as an engineer in production i hear boring science stuff all the time. Your carbide and matrix explanation as sprinkles in frosting was just as perfect as it gets. Hats off to you
meanwhile somewhere in central europe, a lone rex121 knife screams to high heavens because it realized it is being sent to some crazy austrian with a gasmask and strange hate for old volkswagens
Great stuff, Pete ! Delving into sharpening out a chip on your high hardness steel ! Thanks for the sacrifice driving the edge through metal ! Big knife community - who else does things like this ?
What an awesome video to show inexperienced sharpeners or those who are inexperienced sharpening high-hardness-carbide-rich steels how "softer" abrasives polish/burnish, but don't effectively cut these types of super-steels. I think if somebody needed a sharpening system for high-vanadium/tungsten carbide steels, a really good "budget" option is to get one of the DMT dia-sharp two-sided plates with a coarse and a fine side. Then you have a "fast" stock removal side in the coarse to help with repairing edges and re-apexing, while the fine side allows you to really minimize the burr and refine the edge in preparation for a strop. The problem with the worksharp field sharpener for something like maxemet or rex121 or s110v is that you only have a coarse diamond plate to shapren and apex on, and then as soon as you take it to the ceramic rod you jump right back into the issue with "carbine tear-out" in that you are trying to cut a steel with carbide constituents that cannot be cut by the ceramic. You really should be sharpening entirely using a diamond (or cbn) abrassive progression until you get to the strop (and then you probably want a diamond paste or spray, rather than the chromium oxide or aluminum oxide honing compounds)
I believe the Worksharp has a diamond plate on each side of the tool with different grits and held to the base with magnets to easily interchange with different diamond plates. Not sure if other grits are available from Worksharp.
You take a vanadium carbide, you take a tungsten carbide, you take a whiskey carbide, you take a lager carbide, you take the things that remind you of the sharp sides, you take the things that remind you of the carbides, I GET KNOCKED DOW
10:12 I've been looking into the spreadsheet file with your cutting tests results and noticed that the difference between 17 and 20 degrees seems to amount for about ~20% difference on supersteels and often times even more than that on simpler ones. Your results here seem to fall in line with the expected trend, I'd say it's quite a success for the "backyard haphazard fixing the edge back with a 20dps angle"🎉 But then again we're yet to witness your standard protocol testing for 17dps. Bless your arms, Pete🙏 And thank you for bringing this usable and repeatable bro science into the community! I've used your data to pick up some D2 and 14c28n budget blades for my edc when i got back into hobby, couldn't be happier with performance and maintenance experience. Before taking the hiatus, I was accustomed to 8cr and 12c27 type of steel on my budget. Now not only did I notice the difference with D2 and 14c, I can geek out with nerd stats for nerds for exactly how different they are❤
@@shifty8277 If you grind the secondary bevel at ~8°ps and then micro bevel at ~15°ps the cutting performance will increase quite dramatically and the apex stability won’t be altered. The apex itself is the only part of the bevel that requires a higher angle and so there’s absolutely no reason why the whole secondary bevel needs to be of the same angle; it just makes it _far_ less efficient and places more force on the apex to initiate a cut and thus also reduces edge retention. This was proven years ago by Cliff Stamp when he demonstrated that VG10 with optimized geometry outperformed 10V by a significant amount. He got the same results with many other steels. The most important factors in knives are Geometry, Heat treatment, and Steel. Steel is the least important and yet it is given the most attention while geometry is given the least.
@@Wolf_K Thanks I appreciate the information. I used to look for crazy cutting knives. I was just curious if this steel was capable. You are talking about exactly what I was asking. I have a couple customs in k390 including a Phil Wilson. Geometry and heat treat is everything. Crazy how much performance is gained from the lower angle and even more being thinner behind the edge.
@@shifty8277 It’s just a shame that the knife industry isn’t interested in acknowledging the reality of physics, geometry, and the role they play, and then making very simple changes to improve their product performance and lose nothing. I’ve only ever heard good things about Phil’s grinds…and that he’ll go thinner behind the edge if you ask. Rex121 seems to be just fine, I’m running mine around what I wrote above if not a bit less. Same with Maxamet.
@@Wolf_K to the first paragraph - great point. It is much easier for the industry to prop up some steel name to be flavor of the month in order to sell same thing, but in different material without any improvement or change to the geometry. "New shiny FOMO" over geometry kinda thing. I remember the closest we had to the thing you're talking about was in about early 2010s, when the "FFG" was a huge deal and started to be used more and more, before that it was mostly saber ground flat or hollow, then for a while everyone jumped on "full flat grind" trend like they do on Magnacut these days🤔
@@velvetine74 seriously. I went into the BHQ showroom and they put it in my hand. I was the sucker that was born at any given minute. I’d wanted a Sage for a long time. I’d have been good with the Spy 27 version also, but this is nice. First Taichung Spyderco. They do a great job.
@rob10ring TaiChung also does the best fit & finish as well as the nicest, most comfortable to use FRN of all my Spydercos. I thought about ordering a Rex121 Sage, but I just bought the Maxamet Sage 5 last Spring or Summer and I'm really happy with that. I'm tempted to order the Spy27 version though, I haven't tried that steel yet and I do really like the Sage 5 - much more comfortable to carry and use than the Native 5.
I've been using a police 4 in K390 Love hand stone sharpening, i use it regularly and hit the stone once a year, crazy awesome! No rusting. Just got a military 2 in s110v A little intimidated to sharpen when the time comes :D but this vid eases the fear. Thanks
Don't be intimidated. I couldn't believe how much easier it was to sharpen than expected. S110v develops a good burr and burr removal is surprisingly easy. Go for it.
Once a year? That knife isn’t really being used at all then is it….no steel lasts _anywhere_ near that long in actual serious use. Let us keep things in line with reality.
@@Wolf_Kmostly food, occasional cardboard package or utility cutting task? Like you know, regular pocket knife use. Seems fairly plausible. I sharpened an Opinel about once a year and that thing was regularly used for food prep on wooden cutting board, occasional wood carving and package opening. Stropping on leather and honing on fine ceramic in between full blown sharpenings on stones. Doesn't sound too far fetched
Hm, i use a police 4 too as a general tool around the house. I sharpen it about every three months with every weekends cutting up like three big cardboard boxes into handsized pieces in addition to some smaller cutting stuff like branches, dog treats and occasionally plastic packaging, - cord (hay bales) and zipties I sharpen it on a Naniwa Diamond #1000
Hi, I was recently looking for a cheap knife with slightly better steel than the others in my collection, I saw an interesting new product from CJRB - Pyrite-Light with S90V, I thought you might be interested in testing, I wonder how their s90v will fare in such a low budget. Regards
Not sure if that's a halloween costume or bedroom wear... Interesting topic, love learning more about the steel's and why different sharpening techniques work.
I opted for the G10 version (NOT worth the extra pile of cash on top of the FRN variant in retrospect, I think it was $70 USD extra). Mine came with a serviceable working edge. It kinda raggedly sliced through paper and didn't improve any after stropping a long time with diamond compound. I set out to put a better edge on it with the KME and Worksharp PPA diamond stones and that process took HOURS to properly sharpen the full length of the blade and deburr the edge (even my 220-grit stones felt almost like smooth glass). It finally has a fantastic edge on it... I fear chipping the blade might be one of the few things that'd bring on the waterworks... before I give up and break out the ceramic & Norax belts to save my sanity.
Great simple test on the Bobby pin. Loved how you started with less abrasive stones first and progressively moved up. I tried stropping my rex121 sage and it had basically no effect lol. Black compound and green compound didn’t feel like it refined the factory edge at all.
I was having issues with the knife still being completely dull at the apex when I sharpened mine with diamonds. I had to get some gritomatic CBN's to get it to actually cut anything. Just my experience, great video 🤙🏻
8:18 Just sayin', if you remove both sharpening plates from the field sharpener, there are cut-out type things in the frame that are there to fit arrow heads of various types so that you can insert the head and unscrew it from your arrow shaft. It is a very versatile pocket field sharpener. I had one for a few years before I upgraded to the bigger version.
07:23 I think you explained carbide tear out correctly but the tear out might also occur during sharpening. And the picture of tear out I think of is like a tooth pulled from the gum (concave) leaving a jagged edge that acts simmilar to a micro-serration when cutting. Rarely will a knife encouter material as abbrasive as the stones we use during sharpening especially with super (bougie) steels. Most collectors turn the best steels into shelf/drawer queens so their tear out might be seen only when sharpening.
Thanks for the video. Appreciate your thoughtfulness for us lehman who take the caveman approach with our knives to pry and hack our way through life. I may consider a rex 121 supersteel as sharpening is a bore, but i do have a worksharp field and keeping a sharp blade is nice!
Great video, not much on rex121 it send. I'd answer some questions I had regarding the steel since my knife isn't here yet. I'm also interested in how the different steels behave based on how polished they are. So just getting an idea of how much I should polish my blades based on the steel and intended use.
I upgraded to the bigger field system and haven't needed anything else to get uber sharp edges on everything from 420 to 5cr to S30vn to zdp189, 63HRC wootz steel, and even that Fallkniven CoS whatever it is in those Udons. The kit has four diamond stones, a leather strop, and a ceramic rod system. I should do a quick review..maybe Idid? Can't remember.
@@krazmokramer people are worried for nothing they don’t own rights to the steels so anyone could make them anyway and it won’t matter because someone will buy them
@@Aa-ron22 Yes...I watched the video. That was all explained in that video. Not sure who appointed you in charge of video comments, but give it a rest.
@@ryewaldman2214 Just remember "the right tool for the Job"! It is not a screwdriver. It is not a pry Bar. Enjoy the R121 for what it is. Ultimate edge holding. KnifeMaker
Easily one of the best sharpening product of all time so far. So good as a gift for a knife enthusiast in your life as well. I have and I'd still be excited as hell if I got one as a gift😅
Gr8 vid mate.... can you remember what the mako in rex 121 by Gary Creely did in the cut test.. ?? How does this sage 5 compare to the mako in terms of both sharpening and use...?? Putting blade geometry aside....
My G10 version poked at 68.6 and my frn version poked at 69.3. out of the 5 I've tested every one has been between 68.5 and 69.5. keep it diamond or CBN abrasives only and you will be good. I've made a couple small fixed blades in rex121 ran at 69-70 and I've tried sharpening it on alumina based abrasives and SIC and all it does is burnish the stone. Sic will some what cut it but not in a useful manner it just takes to long and you will have carbide tear out and micro chipping as a result.
Love the video but seeing that beautiful piece of steel chipped made me wince. Hard to watch damage to such a nice knife but necessary so that we know what it takes to repair it.
Carbide tear out is definitely a real thing! If your stone is not hard enough to cut into the carbide then it just grabs and pulls it out instead of shaping it. Can't wait to see what it can do with like a KME edge! Nice costume lol
Thanks for the analysis! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?
Just wondering where you purchased the new wearable skin toned sun shade from? Looks comfortable or does it just make you feel like a knob? (Thanks for the vid! Good info as always.) Sharp blades all.
Carbide tear out is a debunked fable. Just think about it, if you tear out carbides on a ceramic then what do you think is happening on a 320 grit diamond plate? Other than that, thanks for another great video. I’ve been subbed for many years and really enjoy your content. All the best from Sweden ❤
You didn't try the Shapton Glass stones then? Those are supposed to be designed to use with high carbide steels. Be interesting to see how they performed.
doubt it, throughout the years his fav users were police4, endura and the stretch2 because of ergos, blade shapes and backlock, he often comments during his tests about compression lock creating hotspot for him during continuos cutting.
Does anyone know if the Work Sharp Ken Onion Mk2 (I have the tool sharpener attachment as well) would be enough to sharpen a S90V pocket knife well? I could look into diamond stones but I'd rather use the KO if it will do the job since I already have it. I bought a CJRB Prado in S90V and the factory edge is terrible, but I'm too nervous to sharpen it as I don't know if the belts on the KO would be enough. Thanks!
No. The W.S. uses alu. oxide belts and can grind the edge to an edge, however the vanadium carbides are harder than AO. A Lot harder and cannot sharpen the Vanadium carbides on the edge. In other words, it can give an edge and will feel sharp, however the very reason for such steels as S90v are the vanadium carbides. As they will not be sharpened, it will dull quickly completely negating the very purpose of this fine steel. there is a company that makes custom Diamond belts, but they cost more than the machine here. While diamond stones are low cost on the bay an ama. now days. KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ Years in the Craft
i googled ken onion diamont belt and there is something in 1500 grit on the top of search results, so perhaps its just a matter of finding the store with it in stock. I dont own KO yet, but i faintly recall one of WS vids about it, where they said there are empty belts that you can load with your own compound, so you could put some diamond emulsions on perhaps? Although dont quote me on that.
I recently saw belts for it that use CBN or Diamond. I don’t use this and only saw them while looking at other stuff so they do exist. I don’t recall where.
WS homepage doesn't show what they are made of, but there is for example "ceramic sharpening kit, with 180 and 1500 grit diamond belts "meant to repair ceramic knives", so i guess you could try it out on high carbide steels. There is also "cloth belt kit for KO blade grinding attachment" or "stropping belt kit", that's the one i was thinking about, that you can load if with your own desired compound. They seem to be avaible at WS homepage.
It won’t chip that easily once it’s been sharpened a few times; factory edges, even Spyderco, aren’t optimal due to some level of heat damage. I’ve been running mine with a ~6-8°ps very shallow convex bevel with ~16°ps micro on a well used # 600 DMT. Cutting performance is significantly increased while retaining the same strength of the original apex and actually decreasing loads upon it due to less material behind it. With such geometry it would easily surpass, by far, the amount of cuts you’ve done with these fairly obtuse factory style V edges. That said, I do understand that this is beyond the scope of what you do. Rex121 is 32% carbide, quite a ridiculous amount really. The Carbides are far wider than an apex, carbide clusters are significantly wider than it. I don’t like the steel to be honest, I find it doesn’t retain high sharpness for long but low sharpness for quite some time. To me, this is not what knives are about; in fact I’d prefer something closer to the opposite. South Aussie Great! 😂
@@alextan2465 As do I, but I also like aggression, stick, or bite simultaneously so it’s a good all round tool and so this is somewhat of an issue which leads to a lot of experimentation. The best push cutter on 17gsm paper is the worst slicer and the best slicer on rope or slippery materials is the worst push cutter and so a compromise is required. The solution is fairly straightforward but I’ve found it to be quite counterintuitive and go in the opposite direction as to which you’d expect.
carbide tearout is not a thing, the bond between the carbides and the matrix is very strong. what does happen is that large carbides can get cracked by stones that aren't hard enough to cut them and that leads to a weak and ragged apex
As I thought, two schools of thought have emerged here in these comments. I’ve not had any real world instances but I thought I’d share the theory in hopefully a passive enough way to explain for people who’d never heard the term
Odd... what grit are you using and what angle? For a very course grit I would not apex it. Get it close but don't apex. I would go to at least 400 grit with a diamond plate before I apex. Lower if using traditional stones or diamond matrix/bonded.
Erica from EricasEDC suggested that when dealing with rex121 and maxamet, you cant use low grit diamonds because they break the apex apart. She said she doesnt go below 400grit when sharpening them, and preferably starts sharpening at 600/800 grit. BigBrownBear had a vid where he abused a maxamet knife, purposefully chipped it, and then quickly resharpened it at guided field sharpener, and that thing has 220 plate and 600 one. I suppose 600 alone should do the trick.
@@Observer413honestly- A 600grit diamond stone will take care of ANY steel from 1095 all the way to Maxamet and REX121: if it’s good quality. I feel 600 is the perfect grit- not too aggressive where it microchips the apex, but not too fine where it takes eternity to sharpen.
At this point I'm starting to think Spyderco have figured out people are addicted to buying their knives so why not make something that's more effort and lasts forever.
it depends on the carbide former, iirc Larrin Thomas explained that on his blog/site, that even between steels like Elmax and M390 there are differences in carbides size, and it is a reason why companies started adding Niobium into mix(giving s35vn, s45vn, spy27 and magnacut), because it creates finest carbide of them all.
Micrographs on Larrin’s site show clusters at least 10μ in size. A quality apex is less than 0.1μ. Consider that. Edit: the average carbide size looks to be greater than 2μ.
tri angle sharpmaker has diamond rods avaible,and as Pete said, usual stuff is good for their usual steels, namely s30v, s45vn, spy27 and ingot steels(vg10, cts bd1n, 8cr). Blades from high carbide steels are specialty items for steel junkies, that already have hundreds or even thousands of dollars invested in the hobby, including diamond stones and strops. Kind of like owning an italian sports car, where you wont take it to uncle Randy for a check up just to save few bucks.
amateur hour. You could buy a 3M diamond film for $15 in 120 or 220 grit and grind that steel by hand like butter in a couple minutes. Hit on a diamond strop and have a hair splitting course edge and be done. Rockwell hardness has next to nothing to do with abrasion resistance in the grand scheme of things. A gimmicky silly "knife steel" like Rex121 (actually a carbide alternative cobalt high-speed steel that makes no actual sense to use in a knife) will be more difficult to grind at 50 HRC than a basic carbon steel, or even low alloy steel like say 52100, at 70 HRC. Any basic abrasive will melt 70 HRC carbon steel like butter. You basically have two kinds of steel when it comes to carbides. Chromium steels and Vanadium steels. Vanadium steel require superabrasive. Superabrasive just means CBN or diamond. Since CBN is a pointless gimmick in non-powered use cases, ie unless you're doing powered grinding that generates a lot of heat, that means diamond. Yes you could grind it with ceramic aka vitrified bonded alumina stones in the lower grits, like say 120 grit, etc. it still doesn't work all that great, You can also grind it with silicon carbide. Which works much better, but it still makes a lot more sense to just use diamond especially when you can get full size resin bound diamond bench stones for as little as $35 these days. It's not the hardness that makes it difficult to grind. It's the vanadium carbide. Each point on the HRC scale, which isn't actually a linear scale btw, only adds between 1% to 2% in abrasion resistance for a given steel. That's basically nothing compared to what knife bros imagine it to be. Knife bros are convinced that hardness is a primary factor or modulator for abrasion resistance in steels. It is a factor, like I said, but only a minor and secondary factor. The main factor is the carbide content of the steel itself.
Man as an engineer in production i hear boring science stuff all the time. Your carbide and matrix explanation as sprinkles in frosting was just as perfect as it gets. Hats off to you
Materials engineer here - I fully concur with your statement 😊
"so many collectors out there and they had to sell me to this maniac" - sage 5 last words
meanwhile somewhere in central europe, a lone rex121 knife screams to high heavens because it realized it is being sent to some crazy austrian with a gasmask and strange hate for old volkswagens
Great stuff, Pete ! Delving into sharpening out a chip on your high hardness steel ! Thanks for the sacrifice driving the edge through metal !
Big knife community - who else does things like this ?
What an awesome video to show inexperienced sharpeners or those who are inexperienced sharpening high-hardness-carbide-rich steels how "softer" abrasives polish/burnish, but don't effectively cut these types of super-steels.
I think if somebody needed a sharpening system for high-vanadium/tungsten carbide steels, a really good "budget" option is to get one of the DMT dia-sharp two-sided plates with a coarse and a fine side. Then you have a "fast" stock removal side in the coarse to help with repairing edges and re-apexing, while the fine side allows you to really minimize the burr and refine the edge in preparation for a strop.
The problem with the worksharp field sharpener for something like maxemet or rex121 or s110v is that you only have a coarse diamond plate to shapren and apex on, and then as soon as you take it to the ceramic rod you jump right back into the issue with "carbine tear-out" in that you are trying to cut a steel with carbide constituents that cannot be cut by the ceramic.
You really should be sharpening entirely using a diamond (or cbn) abrassive progression until you get to the strop (and then you probably want a diamond paste or spray, rather than the chromium oxide or aluminum oxide honing compounds)
I believe the Worksharp has a diamond plate on each side of the tool with different grits and held to the base with magnets to easily interchange with different diamond plates. Not sure if other grits are available from Worksharp.
@@kevola5739correct, it comes with 220/600 grit stones. I use it for pretty much everything, but I'm not super picky
I agree with you about the Work Sharp Field Sharpener! I absolutely love it so much that I have 2. Very handy to have!
Thanks. What a wild steel. Spyderco is the only knife maker that will try just about anything. 🎸🔪
You take a vanadium carbide, you take a tungsten carbide, you take a whiskey carbide, you take a lager carbide, you take the things that remind you of the sharp sides, you take the things that remind you of the carbides, I GET KNOCKED DOW
Fuck me.. the greatest earworm of all time strikes in the comments section.
10:12 I've been looking into the spreadsheet file with your cutting tests results and noticed that the difference between 17 and 20 degrees seems to amount for about ~20% difference on supersteels and often times even more than that on simpler ones. Your results here seem to fall in line with the expected trend, I'd say it's quite a success for the "backyard haphazard fixing the edge back with a 20dps angle"🎉
But then again we're yet to witness your standard protocol testing for 17dps. Bless your arms, Pete🙏
And thank you for bringing this usable and repeatable bro science into the community! I've used your data to pick up some D2 and 14c28n budget blades for my edc when i got back into hobby, couldn't be happier with performance and maintenance experience. Before taking the hiatus, I was accustomed to 8cr and 12c27 type of steel on my budget. Now not only did I notice the difference with D2 and 14c, I can geek out with nerd stats for nerds for exactly how different they are❤
Has he done any taking them to 15°? Several of the new steels hold it some even down to 14° like k390. I don't know about Rex 121. Thanks
@@shifty8277
If you grind the secondary bevel at ~8°ps and then micro bevel at ~15°ps the cutting performance will increase quite dramatically and the apex stability won’t be altered. The apex itself is the only part of the bevel that requires a higher angle and so there’s absolutely no reason why the whole secondary bevel needs to be of the same angle; it just makes it _far_ less efficient and places more force on the apex to initiate a cut and thus also reduces edge retention.
This was proven years ago by Cliff Stamp when he demonstrated that VG10 with optimized geometry outperformed 10V by a significant amount. He got the same results with many other steels.
The most important factors in knives are Geometry, Heat treatment, and Steel. Steel is the least important and yet it is given the most attention while geometry is given the least.
@@Wolf_K Thanks I appreciate the information. I used to look for crazy cutting knives. I was just curious if this steel was capable. You are talking about exactly what I was asking. I have a couple customs in k390 including a Phil Wilson. Geometry and heat treat is everything. Crazy how much performance is gained from the lower angle and even more being thinner behind the edge.
@@shifty8277
It’s just a shame that the knife industry isn’t interested in acknowledging the reality of physics, geometry, and the role they play, and then making very simple changes to improve their product performance and lose nothing.
I’ve only ever heard good things about Phil’s grinds…and that he’ll go thinner behind the edge if you ask.
Rex121 seems to be just fine, I’m running mine around what I wrote above if not a bit less. Same with Maxamet.
@@Wolf_K to the first paragraph - great point. It is much easier for the industry to prop up some steel name to be flavor of the month in order to sell same thing, but in different material without any improvement or change to the geometry. "New shiny FOMO" over geometry kinda thing. I remember the closest we had to the thing you're talking about was in about early 2010s, when the "FFG" was a huge deal and started to be used more and more, before that it was mostly saber ground flat or hollow, then for a while everyone jumped on "full flat grind" trend like they do on Magnacut these days🤔
I dig the chill DQ music. Nice video. Thanks for sharing 👍
Perfect timing! I got the G10 version of this knife just last week.
Basil’s outro is phenomenal!
Most expensive G10 over frn upgrade in history, but I would have too :)
@@velvetine74 seriously. I went into the BHQ showroom and they put it in my hand. I was the sucker that was born at any given minute. I’d wanted a Sage for a long time. I’d have been good with the Spy 27 version also, but this is nice. First Taichung Spyderco. They do a great job.
@rob10ring
TaiChung also does the best fit & finish as well as the nicest, most comfortable to use FRN of all my Spydercos. I thought about ordering a Rex121 Sage, but I just bought the Maxamet Sage 5 last Spring or Summer and I'm really happy with that. I'm tempted to order the Spy27 version though, I haven't tried that steel yet and I do really like the Sage 5 - much more comfortable to carry and use than the Native 5.
I've been using a police 4 in K390
Love hand stone sharpening, i use it regularly and hit the stone once a year, crazy awesome! No rusting. Just got a military 2 in s110v
A little intimidated to sharpen when the time comes :D but this vid eases the fear.
Thanks
Don't be intimidated. I couldn't believe how much easier it was to sharpen than expected. S110v develops a good burr and burr removal is surprisingly easy. Go for it.
Once a year? That knife isn’t really being used at all then is it….no steel lasts _anywhere_ near that long in actual serious use.
Let us keep things in line with reality.
@@Wolf_Kmostly food, occasional cardboard package or utility cutting task? Like you know, regular pocket knife use. Seems fairly plausible. I sharpened an Opinel about once a year and that thing was regularly used for food prep on wooden cutting board, occasional wood carving and package opening. Stropping on leather and honing on fine ceramic in between full blown sharpenings on stones. Doesn't sound too far fetched
@@snowhusk
Stropping and honing _is_ sharpening…it’s all abrasion.
Also, even a blunt Opinel will cut many things as they’re thin.
Hm, i use a police 4 too as a general tool around the house. I sharpen it about every three months with every weekends cutting up like three big cardboard boxes into handsized pieces in addition to some smaller cutting stuff like branches, dog treats and occasionally plastic packaging, - cord (hay bales) and zipties
I sharpen it on a Naniwa Diamond #1000
Hi,
I was recently looking for a cheap knife with slightly better steel than the others in my collection, I saw an interesting new product from CJRB - Pyrite-Light with S90V, I thought you might be interested in testing, I wonder how their s90v will fare in such a low budget.
Regards
Not sure if that's a halloween costume or bedroom wear... Interesting topic, love learning more about the steel's and why different sharpening techniques work.
I opted for the G10 version (NOT worth the extra pile of cash on top of the FRN variant in retrospect, I think it was $70 USD extra).
Mine came with a serviceable working edge. It kinda raggedly sliced through paper and didn't improve any after stropping a long time with diamond compound. I set out to put a better edge on it with the KME and Worksharp PPA diamond stones and that process took HOURS to properly sharpen the full length of the blade and deburr the edge (even my 220-grit stones felt almost like smooth glass). It finally has a fantastic edge on it... I fear chipping the blade might be one of the few things that'd bring on the waterworks... before I give up and break out the ceramic & Norax belts to save my sanity.
Forget the chips, that blade is CRACKED my friend
Knives scream for mercy when they see Pete & Bricky coming. Thanks for sharing the destruction and repair. Happy New Year! 👍🏻😁
if your knife ever give you attitude, just force feed them JoeX content, Clokwork Orange style.
@Observer413 😂🤣😂🤣
That’s an interesting Tyvek suit you’ve got there. Always wear protection when handling knives.
Great video and awesome demonstration! Thank you so much. Hugely appreciated!
Love watching your videos for the humor even when I don't care for the actual content your covering, keep it up Pete!
Great simple test on the Bobby pin. Loved how you started with less abrasive stones first and progressively moved up. I tried stropping my rex121 sage and it had basically no effect lol. Black compound and green compound didn’t feel like it refined the factory edge at all.
I was having issues with the knife still being completely dull at the apex when I sharpened mine with diamonds. I had to get some gritomatic CBN's to get it to actually cut anything. Just my experience, great video 🤙🏻
Yeah that’s totally understandable, it’s a weird steel, needs a touch extra love I think
@CedricAda Oh that it got😂
Yea I chipped mine almost immediately! Despite being really gentle, Thanks for the video bro!
8:18 Just sayin', if you remove both sharpening plates from the field sharpener, there are cut-out type things in the frame that are there to fit arrow heads of various types so that you can insert the head and unscrew it from your arrow shaft. It is a very versatile pocket field sharpener. I had one for a few years before I upgraded to the bigger version.
07:23 I think you explained carbide tear out correctly but the tear out might also occur during sharpening. And the picture of tear out I think of is like a tooth pulled from the gum (concave) leaving a jagged edge that acts simmilar to a micro-serration when cutting. Rarely will a knife encouter material as abbrasive as the stones we use during sharpening especially with super (bougie) steels. Most collectors turn the best steels into shelf/drawer queens so their tear out might be seen only when sharpening.
Love the video! I half expected you to start trying to sharpen it on the toilet
The outro gets me every time, love it
Thanks for the video. Appreciate your thoughtfulness for us lehman who take the caveman approach with our knives to pry and hack our way through life. I may consider a rex 121 supersteel as sharpening is a bore, but i do have a worksharp field and keeping a sharp blade is nice!
Very interesting testing and a great way of explaining tear out.
Great video, not much on rex121 it send. I'd answer some questions I had regarding the steel since my knife isn't here yet.
I'm also interested in how the different steels behave based on how polished they are. So just getting an idea of how much I should polish my blades based on the steel and intended use.
Can't wait to watch
True story - Pete watched this video to learn how to sharpen his Rex 121 Spyderco Sage 5.
I upgraded to the bigger field system and haven't needed anything else to get uber sharp edges on everything from 420 to 5cr to S30vn to zdp189, 63HRC wootz steel, and even that Fallkniven CoS whatever it is in those Udons.
The kit has four diamond stones, a leather strop, and a ceramic rod system. I should do a quick review..maybe Idid? Can't remember.
Now that Crusibel has declared bankruptcy will their exotic steels be available in the future?
Nice explanation Pete! Did you see this YT video "Crucible is Bankrupt! What Happens to MagnaCut" from Knife Steel Nerds?
Somebody is going to buy them chill out
@@Aa-ron22 chill out??? WTH is that for. I asked a simple question. Don't be a dick.
@@krazmokramer people are worried for nothing they don’t own rights to the steels so anyone could make them anyway and it won’t matter because someone will buy them
@@Aa-ron22 Yes...I watched the video. That was all explained in that video. Not sure who appointed you in charge of video comments, but give it a rest.
@@krazmokramer why you getting so offended he’s not gonna respond to that anyways lol
At first I was so afraid of chipping/snapping my 121 sage 5 I was seriously thinking of picking up a more basic sage 5 just for daily use lol.
There's no need to pickup a basic sage 5 because of the rex 121.
No, you should just buy more knives for the sake of it :)
@@ryewaldman2214 Just remember "the right tool for the Job"! It is not a screwdriver. It is not a pry Bar. Enjoy the R121 for what it is. Ultimate edge holding.
KnifeMaker
That worksharp gfs still putting in the work
Easily one of the best sharpening product of all time so far. So good as a gift for a knife enthusiast in your life as well. I have and I'd still be excited as hell if I got one as a gift😅
You should have used Dawn dish sopa and Water it would help made cutting fatser on the Spyderco medium
thanks for showing the process
Gr8 vid mate.... can you remember what the mako in rex 121 by Gary Creely did in the cut test.. ??
How does this sage 5 compare to the mako in terms of both sharpening and use...?? Putting blade geometry aside....
Your freehand is looking a lot more natural. How long until you try stone in hand? I find it easier than having the stone on a table.
Great stuff mate ..!!
I think it says something about the channel that no one has made a comment about 0:12 👍
everything normal here
My G10 version poked at 68.6 and my frn version poked at 69.3. out of the 5 I've tested every one has been between 68.5 and 69.5. keep it diamond or CBN abrasives only and you will be good. I've made a couple small fixed blades in rex121 ran at 69-70 and I've tried sharpening it on alumina based abrasives and SIC and all it does is burnish the stone. Sic will some what cut it but not in a useful manner it just takes to long and you will have carbide tear out and micro chipping as a result.
good info on the further testing data, cheers!
Love the video but seeing that beautiful piece of steel chipped made me wince. Hard to watch damage to such a nice knife but necessary so that we know what it takes to repair it.
Does a strop and green compound even polish it any?
Carbide tear out is definitely a real thing! If your stone is not hard enough to cut into the carbide then it just grabs and pulls it out instead of shaping it. Can't wait to see what it can do with like a KME edge! Nice costume lol
Science of Sharp has some articles on this that you might want to check out.
Thank you for sacrificing your hand and the edge 😅
Good video. Thank you.
Thanks for the analysis! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?
Just wondering where you purchased the new wearable skin toned sun shade from? Looks comfortable or does it just make you feel like a knob? (Thanks for the vid! Good info as always.) Sharp blades all.
I thought vanadium carbides are harder than aluminium oxide stones?
@00:13 what is that object,
Carbide tear out is a debunked fable. Just think about it, if you tear out carbides on a ceramic then what do you think is happening on a 320 grit diamond plate?
Other than that, thanks for another great video. I’ve been subbed for many years and really enjoy your content.
All the best from Sweden ❤
yeah, just explaining the theory, i don’t have a personal experience of it, so I’ll let folks debate both sides in the comments
You didn't try the Shapton Glass stones then? Those are supposed to be designed to use with high carbide steels. Be interesting to see how they performed.
will do them next time 👍🏻
Why do I have a feeling this video is going to be HARD to watch... Hard like the steel...
Okay I'll put down the keyboard
Couldn’t you handle something like that with your Tormec in less time ?
8:02 Seen here, a normal man showcasing a normal guided field sharpener.
the wood at your back explain Rex 121 matrix
Does this sage 5 in Rex 121 take the place of the stretch in k390 for you
doubt it, throughout the years his fav users were police4, endura and the stretch2 because of ergos, blade shapes and backlock, he often comments during his tests about compression lock creating hotspot for him during continuos cutting.
nah, thats a better overall knife in hand IMO
i imagine it doesnt rust as easily, because with this high carbide volume its already more of a rock than a slab of metal.
Does anyone know if the Work Sharp Ken Onion Mk2 (I have the tool sharpener attachment as well) would be enough to sharpen a S90V pocket knife well? I could look into diamond stones but I'd rather use the KO if it will do the job since I already have it. I bought a CJRB Prado in S90V and the factory edge is terrible, but I'm too nervous to sharpen it as I don't know if the belts on the KO would be enough. Thanks!
No. The W.S. uses alu. oxide belts and can grind the edge to an edge, however the vanadium carbides are harder than AO. A Lot harder and cannot sharpen the Vanadium carbides on the edge. In other words, it can give an edge and will feel sharp, however the very reason for such steels as S90v are the vanadium carbides. As they will not be sharpened, it will dull quickly completely negating the very purpose of this fine steel.
there is a company that makes custom Diamond belts, but they cost more than the machine here. While diamond stones are low cost on the bay an ama. now days.
KnifeMaker/Retired after over 47+ Years in the Craft
i googled ken onion diamont belt and there is something in 1500 grit on the top of search results, so perhaps its just a matter of finding the store with it in stock.
I dont own KO yet, but i faintly recall one of WS vids about it, where they said there are empty belts that you can load with your own compound, so you could put some diamond emulsions on perhaps? Although dont quote me on that.
I recently saw belts for it that use CBN or Diamond. I don’t use this and only saw them while looking at other stuff so they do exist. I don’t recall where.
WS homepage doesn't show what they are made of, but there is for example "ceramic sharpening kit, with 180 and 1500 grit diamond belts "meant to repair ceramic knives", so i guess you could try it out on high carbide steels.
There is also "cloth belt kit for KO blade grinding attachment" or "stropping belt kit", that's the one i was thinking about, that you can load if with your own desired compound.
They seem to be avaible at WS homepage.
How is it vs cruwear?
good at different things to cruwear. cru would be a bit more forgiving of misuse
Does Australia have sloppy joes?
It might be winter where I’m at in Illinois, but it will always be short shorts summer in my mind while I’m watching Pete.
Good review, I might have been halucinating at certain points of the vid.
Very cool!
It won’t chip that easily once it’s been sharpened a few times; factory edges, even Spyderco, aren’t optimal due to some level of heat damage.
I’ve been running mine with a ~6-8°ps very shallow convex bevel with ~16°ps micro on a well used # 600 DMT. Cutting performance is significantly increased while retaining the same strength of the original apex and actually decreasing loads upon it due to less material behind it. With such geometry it would easily surpass, by far, the amount of cuts you’ve done with these fairly obtuse factory style V edges. That said, I do understand that this is beyond the scope of what you do.
Rex121 is 32% carbide, quite a ridiculous amount really. The Carbides are far wider than an apex, carbide clusters are significantly wider than it.
I don’t like the steel to be honest, I find it doesn’t retain high sharpness for long but low sharpness for quite some time. To me, this is not what knives are about; in fact I’d prefer something closer to the opposite.
South Aussie Great! 😂
Yeah, a lot depends on how we like our edges. I prefer one with very high sharpness.
@@alextan2465
As do I, but I also like aggression, stick, or bite simultaneously so it’s a good all round tool and so this is somewhat of an issue which leads to a lot of experimentation. The best push cutter on 17gsm paper is the worst slicer and the best slicer on rope or slippery materials is the worst push cutter and so a compromise is required.
The solution is fairly straightforward but I’ve found it to be quite counterintuitive and go in the opposite direction as to which you’d expect.
carbide tearout is not a thing, the bond between the carbides and the matrix is very strong. what does happen is that large carbides can get cracked by stones that aren't hard enough to cut them and that leads to a weak and ragged apex
As I thought, two schools of thought have emerged here in these comments. I’ve not had any real world instances but I thought I’d share the theory in hopefully a passive enough way to explain for people who’d never heard the term
Great video 🇦🇺 🇳🇿
I have a sage 1 in Maxamet and can’t seem to sharpen it. I’m using diamond stones on a kme system. The problem I’m having in chipping at the edge apex
Which angle are you using? When this type of chipping happens with me on the WS PPA, it's generally an indicative that I'm going too thin...
Odd... what grit are you using and what angle? For a very course grit I would not apex it. Get it close but don't apex. I would go to at least 400 grit with a diamond plate before I apex. Lower if using traditional stones or diamond matrix/bonded.
17 degree edge angle and I’ve been using the 140 grit stone to reprofile it from the factory angle. Maybe the stone is too aggressive
Erica from EricasEDC suggested that when dealing with rex121 and maxamet, you cant use low grit diamonds because they break the apex apart. She said she doesnt go below 400grit when sharpening them, and preferably starts sharpening at 600/800 grit. BigBrownBear had a vid where he abused a maxamet knife, purposefully chipped it, and then quickly resharpened it at guided field sharpener, and that thing has 220 plate and 600 one. I suppose 600 alone should do the trick.
@@Observer413honestly- A 600grit diamond stone will take care of ANY steel from 1095 all the way to Maxamet and REX121: if it’s good quality. I feel 600 is the perfect grit- not too aggressive where it microchips the apex, but not too fine where it takes eternity to sharpen.
At this point I'm starting to think Spyderco have figured out people are addicted to buying their knives so why not make something that's more effort and lasts forever.
I'm surprised the ceramic even did anything, even on diamonds this stuff feels like trying to sharpen glass.
Try percussion flaking it sharp like the guys in the old days circa 10,000BC.
😂
Erica said it's not difficult to sharpen, too,, 👌👌
I rebeveled and sharpened mine in less than 15 minutes on DMT Dia-Sharp bench stones.
It was as easy as S60V! Piece of cake. Mine didn’t want a 15DPS. It micro chipped. It wanted 17DPS. Then it was a happy camper!😂🎉❤
Super easy! Barely an inconvenience!
It might be a pain if you only have wet stones but with diamonds it will have no problem
@ yeah I used a 600grit DMT and it was literally one of the easiest steels I’ve ever sharpened.
How is it different from a sharpened carbon steel file? 8s it more tough or harder, or just the carbides are harder so the wear resistance is better?
Bro your biceps are getting huge from cutting all that sisal rope, lol
His right arm looks like Quagmire's
Surely Rex 121 a powder steel, so doesn't have large chunks of carbide?
I depends on what a large chunk would be to you. The carbide size is measured in microns
it depends on the carbide former, iirc Larrin Thomas explained that on his blog/site, that even between steels like Elmax and M390 there are differences in carbides size, and it is a reason why companies started adding Niobium into mix(giving s35vn, s45vn, spy27 and magnacut), because it creates finest carbide of them all.
Micrographs on Larrin’s site show clusters at least 10μ in size. A quality apex is less than 0.1μ.
Consider that.
Edit: the average carbide size looks to be greater than 2μ.
Iron and coke
Chromium steel
HAHAHAHA awesome video!
Where is the German AI audio translation? 🤷
3rd
Algorithm
So, Spyderco sharpening systems can't sharpen all Spyderco's steels 😡
They do have CBN stones that would probably handle rex 121 with edge damage such as this better than their standard ceramics.
tri angle sharpmaker has diamond rods avaible,and as Pete said, usual stuff is good for their usual steels, namely s30v, s45vn, spy27 and ingot steels(vg10, cts bd1n, 8cr). Blades from high carbide steels are specialty items for steel junkies, that already have hundreds or even thousands of dollars invested in the hobby, including diamond stones and strops.
Kind of like owning an italian sports car, where you wont take it to uncle Randy for a check up just to save few bucks.
amateur hour. You could buy a 3M diamond film for $15 in 120 or 220 grit and grind that steel by hand like butter in a couple minutes. Hit on a diamond strop and have a hair splitting course edge and be done. Rockwell hardness has next to nothing to do with abrasion resistance in the grand scheme of things. A gimmicky silly "knife steel" like Rex121 (actually a carbide alternative cobalt high-speed steel that makes no actual sense to use in a knife) will be more difficult to grind at 50 HRC than a basic carbon steel, or even low alloy steel like say 52100, at 70 HRC. Any basic abrasive will melt 70 HRC carbon steel like butter. You basically have two kinds of steel when it comes to carbides. Chromium steels and Vanadium steels. Vanadium steel require superabrasive. Superabrasive just means CBN or diamond. Since CBN is a pointless gimmick in non-powered use cases, ie unless you're doing powered grinding that generates a lot of heat, that means diamond. Yes you could grind it with ceramic aka vitrified bonded alumina stones in the lower grits, like say 120 grit, etc. it still doesn't work all that great, You can also grind it with silicon carbide. Which works much better, but it still makes a lot more sense to just use diamond especially when you can get full size resin bound diamond bench stones for as little as $35 these days. It's not the hardness that makes it difficult to grind. It's the vanadium carbide. Each point on the HRC scale, which isn't actually a linear scale btw, only adds between 1% to 2% in abrasion resistance for a given steel. That's basically nothing compared to what knife bros imagine it to be. Knife bros are convinced that hardness is a primary factor or modulator for abrasion resistance in steels. It is a factor, like I said, but only a minor and secondary factor. The main factor is the carbide content of the steel itself.
I had one spuderko looks like a mousey and i drop it down by accident and broke like ceramic never buy again this crap