How Speedrunners Cheat
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- When people talk about Speedrunning, conversations of cheating don't linger too far behind. This Video takes a step back to discuss the methods speedrunners use to cheat. I hope you enjoy as the curtain is drawn back to reveal How Speedrunners Cheat.
Enjoy the video? I stream on twitch at / rubbertoe64 , consider stopping by and dropping a follow.
A Special thanks to Four, ZFG, and FlibidyDibidy for help with research; you can find them at / @foursr / zfg1 and / @flibidydibidy respectively.
Wanna listen to the music used in this video? A list of the songs can be found here pastebin.com/K...
Evidence (Videos used) found at pastebin.com/5...
P.S.
Yo Kurtis, love the Pod
Hey all! I just wanted to say thank you for the support. I've been really enjoying making these videos and trying to approach Speedrunning videos from a unique perspective! If you have any questions or topics you want to see covered, feel free to leave them down below. Stay safe and hope you enjoy the videos :)
shifting the blame of the cheating to the 3 gorges damn bending space and time is a chad move
"You see mods.... i did not cheat, the universe conspired to help me."
TBH, it would had been more beliable if he said that cosmic rays just swapped some bits in his device, that is something that while unlikely, can indeed happen.
@@diablo.the.cheater doug fan detected
@@diablo.the.cheater Didn't that happen to a speedrunner in SM64 and caused an upwarp in Tick-Tock Clock? There was even a bounty out for recreating the "glitch"
@@yourik.1260 What is a doug?
@@gorgit Douglas Douglas
As much as this short video covers. It's only a small part of the tip of the iceberg. I love seeing more and more cheaters getting caught and it makes you think of all the cheated runs that are still on the leaderboards.
Never thought I'd see the day where a marathon runner would be compared to a splicer. (And other sports cheating analogies!) Great video!
I love how you talk about the eye of ender in a Minecratt speedrun pointing to the center of a chunk, but use a clip from a version where it points to the corner of the chunk instead.
(For the record, in the most recent versions of Minecraft, the eye points to 0,0 of a chunk, which is the corner. In the most popular version for speedrunning, however (1.16) it points to the center, or 8,8.)
9:01 dude this shit unironically goes so hard, this man brought out the fuckin pressure cooker for this one
Activision claiming that a time faster than 5.54 is impossible doesn't mean they were lying as 5.57 is the minimum, though it's a bit weird how they got to it.
The sky Cooper music!! Also great video!
9:07 this guy is so based lmao
He's awesome!!! Who cares about the cheating lol, dude is funny as hell.
Dramatically condescending to other runners and talking about how his father and science led him to perfection.... its the best response to cheating ive ever seen
This was a great watch, thank you!
minecraft speedrunning gets so much weirder than that
Thank you for pronouncing niche correctly
Most people have heard of the 1904 race but most also havent heard of besides the cheaters there was alot actually A postman Was Late and followed the track Technically Being A Race Winner
Should call it "the unexpected ways cheaters speedrun"
9:25 why is dream sword called penis ???
thanks for the new techniques
Theoretically you could make the perfect splice and never get found out.
I hear sly cooper 2 music
Funny thing about the guy who consumed the Rat Poison, he had to be partially carried by his crew across the finish line because he was inebriated and half-consious.
Note that this was not considersd against the rules at the time.
Ok, that stretches it a bit for me, but goddamn that story is something wacky
@@BraxtonMeyer Strychnine was not uncommon "back in the day" of cycling. the method of strychnine and brandy was quite common before nutrition etc was well understood. Theory was brandy would dull the pain in their legs and "warm" them up, and the strychnine would fire the legs faster. it was a weird time back then.
That Bruce guy HAD to have been a troll. There's no way he legitimately thinks people would've bought that explanation.
Nah, he's just better than all of us.
nah he's just built different
He just has a really good gaming chair
“Play like a computer, my father always said” 😂😂😂😂😂
so obviously a troll, im surprised anyone fell for it
Lmao Bruce is either a sweet, baby bad troll, or someone who thinks he's an anime antagonist
hes an anime antagonist and i love him
porque no los dos?
I think he thinks he's the 'complicated' protagonist of a young adult novel...
Great vid. One example I don't see people talk about is mod abuse. Iv come across it a few times where a leaderboard is like a boys club where you won't get verified if your not friends with the group or people will straight up not verify runs because youv beaten their time.
What games was this on?
The story at the end about the SMB1 speedruns that were only cheated because it was by children who just didn't really know better was adorable and put a smile on my face.
Thank you. I thought it added a nice bit of levity to the story
lmao even though i read this comment before it appeared in the video, i still got a good chuckle out of it when i saw it.
they were babies
their reputation is TARNISHED FOREVER!! they deserve to be EXILED FROM THE Speedruning Community !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@eyitsaperson When everyone was a kid they did stupid shit, I agree they should be banned until they get older though.
"play like a computer my father always said"💀
That segment near the end reminded me of how Apollo Legend (RIP) once successfully submitted a cheated run to the OoT board and put in video how easy it is to slip a cheated run through the cracks
Even funnier when you realize that it was the second attempt under the same username
@@KyotoCommentates 100% agree with the idea that it's not the best players that cheat "because they would've gotten the time anyways", but rather that's an idea that stems from sampling bias. So many runs on the leaderboards could be cheated and we wouldn't even know
I'm a musician, not a speed runner. If you're gonna fake being good at a instrument. You have to be an experenced musician to do it well. Muse music videos have the wrong drumming all the time for example. I'm not even a great drummer, but I can tell. Tell me if it applies to speed running.
Wait, what ..... what is that RIP in parentheses doing near Apollo Legend ....... don't dare telling me that he .......
@@sephikong8323 he committed suicide a couple years ago
My favorite part of the video was when you discussed How Speedrunners Cheat! Very cool!
I like that part too :)
same
Is mobius time!
Did I do it right?
What happened after they found out you technically broke the rules? did they do anything or just leave you be?
@@SECONDQUEST you have to create a form to explain yourself
15:07 This is the legendary "I'm not cheating, I'm just have a good gamer chair" man.
I kinda don't understand why especially with CD games it's not standard to just subtract the loading times from runs. Unless it's something incredibly consistent like SMB's 21 frame rule, it doesn't seem fair that you should need to rely on aging tech that has always been inconsistent and just generally slow and terrible.
@@gregoryford2532 how?
@@slashersoul2380 i have no technical knowledge so this is basically a swing in the dark, but i'm guessing it's extremely difficult to precisely define the specific points in time that separate loading times from normal gameplay. you really don't want the amount of time you can subtract from your run to be subjective, so if there isn't an objective and convenient way to delineate the boundary it's much easier for the mods (who presumably have real jobs too) to just include loading times and accept the unfairness.
A lot of leaderboards do indeed subtract load times. I don't know why others don't, I assume there are reasons that make sense to the community.
@L Well said! If the emulators can be proven to perfectly emulate the hardware there shouldnt be an issue. Although that's also where the issue comes in for games like the spongebob one. There aren't any viable true-to-life emulators for the xbox360/ps3 era.
@@tenkaichi412no normal emulator really perfectly emulates hardware but there definitely is a line that is “good enough”. Saying this as someone that made a GameBoy and GameBoy Advance emulator. Even Nintendo’s official emulators used for the virtual console just pass a series of tests that conform closely enough to the hardware to play games properly, they’re not necessarily built attempting to simulate how the hardware is actually functioning, just to mimic all the observable effects that we know about that games commonly use.
I think this is an important distinction because real modern hardware (like out of order pipelined CPUs operating on shared memory with multiple cores) is so complex that basically nobody knows how it works completely, not even the people that make it. Which is why we see horrible hardware vulnerabilities like spectre and meltdown. So if properly simulating hardware is a requirement for speed running then we will not see emulators meeting that standard possibly ever. But under normal operation, we can heavily abstract much of this complexity away and just copy the behavior we know about though. There just needs to be a well defined baseline level of behavior (or standardization of emulators) that emulators comply with. But we have to understand that that is a moving target as we learn more.
Didn't expect to see Bruce in this video, the SA2 community hasn't had much in the way of cheaters but he's definitely been the funniest. Nice video!
He really is just better than us all
That story about the Xbox disc reader having being manufactured by 4 different companies and thus have different levels of performance along the entire life cycle of the console, was very interesting.
To me it seems like speedrunning in general would suffer from so much less cheating if all runs for all games were timed to not include loading screens, sure it's more work but having to worry about inconsistencies between hardware, disc rot, splicing, etc. would be mostly over.
I don't see how timing schemas that exclude load times would in any way mitigate spliced runs. The point of a spliced run is to present a bunch of best-of segments _as if_ it were a one-shot run. That's still an appealing cheating method no matter the timing scheme.
I do agree it'd mitigate the need for console modifications by otherwise legitimate runners, though.
8:00 im upset "perfect pure movement" and 'play like a computer' my father always said" arent widely used inside jokes in the speedrunning community
the perfect pure movement was the one that got me. I was just imagining watching a spliced run, or a TAS run that tried to slip through the cracks...ill be that guy that hits yall with the "????Thats perfect pure movement....he was clearly playing like a computer..."
@@xiphosmaniac ong we gotta spread the perfect pure movement gospel brother
I still don't get why Dan was hated on by the community so much. I know it'd be frustrating to work so hard to beat someones record, only for that person to reveal that they got a way better record two months ago and you're even further behind. But the thing is, a legit run is a legit run, regardless of when it was done.
I think the issue in this case arises from the fact that a lot of improvements in speedrunning are done by finding new tricks/routes. If I broadcast all my attempts and make sure the entire community learns the new strategies that I'm learning at the same time, and everyone else supposedly does that too, it feels like a stab in the back to have your shot at a first time record be taken by someone who choses not to do so. Especially when they are pretending as if they are sharing everything with the community.
I really liked the olympics analogies! Cool little bits of history to tie in to modern day speedrunning is so fun
I mean, you touched on it with the calculator issue, but it is the most controversial when it is not clear whether an action does count as cheating or not, see how certain strats are oftentimes banned, for example.
its such a grey area. i know for hollow knight community its been really tough deciding when something becomes a “major glitch” vs “minor glitch”. the modding in minecraft has been handled really poorly in my opinion, far beyond the calculators
Even outside of speedrunning, there's plenty of competitive games that use outside programs for information that are only legal because TECHNICALLY you can get that information yourself through righteous means. Hearthstone has a card tracker to see which cards are in your deck at any given time (the ones you can know); League of Legends let's you see a lot of information about your teammates and opponents before the match begins, etc.
Splicing IRL.. HAHAHAHA
I love this video, instant like
Just wanted to say, really loving the content lately.
It was just such a seamless Splice, really not sure how he got caught...
Thank you btw, I really appreciate it.
19:29 Perfect Dark is not a James Bond game. It is the spiritual successor to Goldeneye because it was made by the same people on the same engine and uses similar gameplay mechanics; but it takes place in a completely unrelated science fiction world.
I hope Snap's speedruns were reinstated after they confirmed he never modified the xbox. He really did have a god-tier console hahaha
The Bruce guy is definitely just a troll.. that shit is hilarious
Trick hoarding being seen as cheating is dumb imo. Yeah it's not a very sportsman way of competing, but it's not like they're playing in a way the other's couldn't, they just spent the time to learn new things that the other runners would also need to. And new runners would even have an advantage in seeing footage of it once posted.
Not to mention the fact that anybody else can achieve a new record during the hoarding period. If people were actually passionate enough about the runs to be pissed off about the hoarding, you'd expect them to also be constantly vying for that top position in the first place. If they let a category stagnate for long enough that a hoard can happen, well, that's on them.
I think the issue with the Rustemeyer one is that he was so close so often to getting 32/32, but kept getting thwarted by the efforts of the whole community. Totally fair by all parties, but he was fighting a major uphill battle.
Burbank, though, had the 'luxury' of not being in contention at that point (he had been taking some records to stop the 32/32, sure, but he wasn't close to getting it himself) - so he saw how difficult it would be to do if he tried to do it straight up. So he was able to formulate a plan to counteract this (hoarding, to make it harder for the community to stop the effort), and it paid off.
Basically, Rustemeyer has a right to feel a bit salty about all this. He was the first to get close, but didn't get it due to a massive effort against him, but because he got so close he basically paved the way for someone else to come in and get it. If he hadn't gotten so close himself, Burbank may not have realised that the community would band together against him if he tried to do it straight up - so the fact that Rustemeyer got so close and 'bit the bullet' significantly helped Burbank get it himself.
I didn't read Burbank's apology, but I would hope he gave many kudos to Rustemeyer for helping him realise that he needed to do it this way.
Dream sucked at even his cheated speedrun.
Before exposed, TSA was a huge inspiration for me to do my own speed runs, and I wouldn’t love speedrunning today if it weren’t for runs I watched from him on SDA. Truly heartbreaking when you find out a childhood hero was a big fat cheater the whole time. Thank God for ZFG, he’s my daddy now.
ZFG is a Zelda God. That man breaks OOT in so many ways that he makes no logic randos look easy.
OMG the Bruce Mittenger incident. Shit was so silly.
The Legend of Bruce will be told for generations lmao
Activision never had a Simulation with "the best possible inputs" for dragster. Todd Rogers simlpy claimed this and nobody verified this story ...
My bro's intro was like MatPat's commentary ("Bigger animals make less babies but take care of them, unlike smaller animals, which make a lot of eggs but don't take care of them. The Ender Dragon...."
The use of the Badabun faked smb1 run in the background during the Dragster bit is a great easter egg :D
At least Matthias Rustemeyer took back the champ title in Dec 2022.
Long live the King
Because of the unfairness of load times, making it so any person can get a world record on any device as long as they practice, the hollow knight speedrunning community made it so load times don’t count to the total time.
Bruce's trolling is legendary. Damn guy still cheated and deserves to be banned but that trolling is legendary.
Fun fact:Flowbie cheated because he tried to impress his crush
lol
This is why Fireboy and Watergirl speedrunning is the best. Zero known cases of cheaters :)
Hard to argue; must be true
watergirl 🥵
Audio analysis cross-analyzed against known true runs is a really cool tool to catch splices. Splicers rarely consider sounds that humans cannot register.
Okay hoarding a technique to yourself ISN'T CHEATING.
youre telling me that guy drunk rat poison, got high, and STILL got the gold medal? dude is insane
Interesting video with good narrative and editing! Kinda liked the ending part, very adorable :) This video was recommended to me, so finally UA-cam is doing some job.
Don't think regular old doping doesn't happen either. The Venn diagram of top runners in some games and people with access to prescription focus drugs or stimulants, medically needed or otherwise, may well be a circle.
Lmao at that kid's voice changer and crap disguise in his ridiculous defense video. While you were out with friends I was at home practicing the -sword- Sanic!
It's always weird when these people over-dramatize their life like they're the protagonist of their very own young adult novel.
I wanna see a speedrunner openly use every single cheating method they possibly can to see how fast they can actually complete a game
That's the TAS category - tool assisted speedruns.
@@ebengis perfect misunderstanding of the TAS category and disregard to how much effort people put into TAS runs.
@@adventofnullI think he was including lying about times since the original idea was using every cheat possible
@@adventofnullyou said cheating every way possible is the tas category and then accuse someone else of misunderstanding tas lmao!
That intro was the best bait and switch and switch I've ever seen
I used to cheat in a speedrun before, in a niche retro game. I wanted to show that the rules were easy to exploit and impossible to enforce. Moderation took action and simplified them.
Lmao, Bruce's video is so bizarre. Maybe satirical?
it's possible for a person to earnestly use all the justifications in the video to prove that the run is legit - sob story about how awesome but misunderstood they are (with inflation of their achievements), dismissing what people are saying by twisting their words (the thing with dolphin), and using some pseudoscientific or unfalsifiable circumstances due to misunderstanding how science works (there are quite a few people who come up with alternative science 'cos they don't understand actual science and think that there is a conspiracy that "hides the truth"). Ofc he could've just done it as a 'troll', due to understanding that he was caught and couldn't get out of it, so he may as well have fun with it - or it could've been a genuine attempt to remove his status as a cheater
at least, i wouldn't be surprised if someone made a similar video and then continued to defend themself this way till no one cares, and i wouldn't be surprised if someone made similar video and later said they were just trolling at that point
Great video!
Funnily enough, I am actually formerly Flowbee.
Had a suspicion I would be mentioned in this video, and low and behold...
Generally well put together! 1 thing you got wrong, but I wont blame you for it since just about everyone got that wrong.
(In the 11:09 screenshot, I never actually replayed the cheated run on the instance I shared, making the "find" from the moderators a wrong conclusion. They were right I cheated, just not how I cheated. I'd pointed it out to them to avoid any possible legit runner being called fake at another time.)
As for how I go about now.. Yeah I still run occasionally. Kind of stopped about half a year ago because I got a really good time (Legit, this time) but been getting slowly back into it again.
You've earned my sub, for this video was honestly really entertaining and well-detailed!
Edit: used a wrong word somewhere
So Snap never cheated at all and his XBOX was a legitimate and non-modified Version B. Samsung disk drive? I wonder how everyone feels about their accusations now then, lol.
Small correction. You say "two James bond games: Golden Eye and Perfect Dark" perfect dark is not a James Bond game despite being a spiritual successor to Golden Eye.
Disallowing calculators for an element of a speedrun that's been artificially created and injected into it by the community was misguided for a lot of reasons. One aspect I don't see discussed so much is the classism and ableism inherent in deciding that not being able to do math quickly without a calculator means you can't get competitive times in a video game that doesn't require any math at all for actual gameplay. It heavily favors people who have access to better education and no conditions like dyscalculia. If figuring out how to get somewhere with math was a core part of the gameplay it would be a different story, but it's not. We made it up and decided to exclude people who couldn't do it so we could feel smarter-than instead.
The sport event mentioned in the video, actually had even more bad stuff instead of the ones OtherRuns mentioned. If you want to hear the whole story, youtuber Qxir made a great video detailing it called "The Worst Olympic Event in History | Tales From the Bottle". I recommend watching that because the Cheater and the Rat Poisoned Winner are just the tip of the iceberg.
1:56 I’m so high that I had this video minimized while playing a game. I heard that tommy dude speak, looked at the vid and was like “huh I never watched one of this guys videos I didn’t know he made videos like this” 😂
Speedrunners are basically losers getting mad that someone would dare have the audacity to troll in their darkrp servers
The Bruce dude cracked me the fuck UP, my jaw just dropped further every time he opened his mouth 💀
oh also im subbscribing, this video slapped
I love how petty some of this stuff is. Factoring load times into speedruns is nonsense, along with banning calculators.
Thank you! I will use this video to cheat and submit numerous fake runs to several different categories and games!
A great video, plz don't stop making new ones 💯
New video on the 10th :)
Very nice video! My only critique: 9:47 While it feels impactful to say the full number, it's a little bit too much data for the viewer. I recommend showing the number and saying something like "over 18.4 quintilion"
I imagine that Fred was just jogging to the stadium to see who would actually win, then when he got close people started cheering him on - thinking the victor was he - and he just went along with it until somebody actually bothered to ask him if he had actually done the race
At 15:47 you mention someone named Todd Rogers,
I believe you mean Todd Togers!
That sonic speedrunner's video is so funny, similar to the story of Cowen Hames😂
Love the early-mid 1900s old times history bait, keep em coming!
13:11 doesn’t this kind of invalidate a lot of speed running by giving some players a significant advantage over others through no fault of their own?
Just like genetics play a role in sports, hardware is gonna play a role in speedrunning.
While the differences certainly add up over time, at mid level play those half a second increments aren’t going to make the difference between 80th and 100th place. Even if it did, it hardly matters because you beat the game as fast as you could in your console and if you’re not in first, no one else’s score matters. That’s like comparing how fast you run a mile to someone else, despite the fact that neither of you actually compete.
And frankly if you HAVE put in enough time to be a top level contender, just buy the better hardware. If you can’t shell out 120$ to buy a new better Wii for a game you’ve spent 1000s of hours playing, you might need to rethink your priorities in life.
I am borderline addicted to hearing about cheaters getting caught and exposed.
hoarding might be poor form but to call it cheating seems wrong
Hoarding records?? So what ? They made the record they can announce it or not thats their choice, has nothing to do with how well someone else plays the game or it shouldnt but their will always be sore losers and cry babies
Record hoarding really blurs the lines re: competition. It betrays the trust of the community, but it’s kind of like flopping in soccer. It is (or was) technically legal, up to the refs, but it’s hardly sportsmanlike.
Imagine asking for some water and your coach goes "nah bro, down this rat poison with a shot of grey goose" like WHAT
I wasn’t expecting the Sly Cooper music while watching, but it was greatly appreciated. I’ve got my PsVita and I’m fixin to relive my childhood😂
matteous wouldve had 32/32 years before Dan if he had did what dan did. dan is scummy
"I DIDNT cheat! My local hydroelectric plant distorted spacetime!"
*A hydroelectric plant thousands of miles away
Geometry Dash just had their own massive cheating scandal; SpaceUK, the "best" player, was just exposed for hacking pretty much all of his achievements since he began playing.
Truly a SpaceUk moment
Dream's odds weren't 1 in 7.5T tho, it was much, much lower. It was actually so incredibly low that it would take 10B humans a total of 15B years (where each second is equivalent to an entire minecraft speedrun), to be able to reach the sheer impossibly low odds of getting a run like dream did.
Getting a series of runs* like he did, not just an individual run
Video feels plagiarized. I've seen videos over the years covering every single topic you touched on. You seem to be a fan of Jon Bois and Summoning Salt. Maybe some more effort into researching topics instead of just rehashing things others have made videos on would improve your content.
Blaming the construction of the Three Gorges Damn for discrepancies your cheating caused is... an amazing move I have to say.
That and the voice changing etcetera tells me that guy was definitely a troll.
the sly cooper music got me feeling nostalgic
So you're a fan of Jon Bois then?
9:50 aren’t there even more since those seeds with content from updates couldn’t have existed at launch?
20:51 Minecraft becoming more optimized is 2021? I mean sure if you use mods that increase FPS like Optifine or the little handful on Fabric... Otherwise I would say the opposite especially by the time the C&C update came out. Unless that would be world generation changes and things.
He means the speedrunning community was becoming optimized, meaning that difficult tricks and minimizing luck were becoming increasingly required to get a good time.
im not researching i swear
damn, homie really spliced irl
thanks for the tutorial bro. the minecraft rsg wr will be mine by next week
I was half asleep so when I heard the sly cooper music I started half dreaming about it and searching for my controller in my bed to play it :')
A constant of this reality is that some people will cheat. Even if doing so comes at great cost and no conceivable benefit, there will always be a dickhead that cuts in line and gets aggressive to anyone that calls them out.