I was actually in an Embraer that did a go-around at about 200 feet due to a ground vehicle getting too close to our runway. The sudden punch of acceleration as the engines slammed to full power was enough to push me hard into my seat back. There was a lot of gasping and a few startled yelps from the passengers. Those little regional jets apparently have a secret F-16 mode. 🙂
Thats why i personally love regional jets. Theyre the sports cars of commercial aviation. The 737 is the bus that gets you from point a to b and the airbus is the charter bus
I had the same situation in an Airbus A320 a few years ago - a last-minute go-around due to an obstruction on the runway. It was a much stronger acceleration than takeoff and there were screams. The pilot got on the PA and apologised for the surprise 😅
I’ve been in a go around when 2 planes at Palma airport got too close to each other. I know what you mean when you say you were pushed hard back into your seat. I remember the steep angle the plane pulled up at as well. This was in 2001.
yovo68 channel on youtube. They're funny to watch, but only because only trucks got crushed, nobody died. Midair collision, not so funny. Incredible how close this came to being one.
I think the actual reason for most of the 11 foot 8 bridge crashes isn’t that the driver thought they had clearance; it’s that the driver simply was not paying attention and didn’t even think about whether they had clearance or not.
@@Sashazur yep. totally oblivious to the fact that he's driving a truck, oblivious to the fact the truck goes up so high, oblivious to the fact that the bridge is low... Not paying attention to any of that.
Years ago (20+?), on approach to 33L at BOS in n a fully loaded B767, we were quite low over the water about to cross the shore when I felt and heard the landing gear go up! At the same time I heard the engines starting to spool up… quickly. In short order we were pushed into our seat backs, the nose came up, and the pilots were obviously clawing for every foot of altitude they could get from the aircraft. I had a left side window and looked down. Sure enough, a few seconds later I saw another airliner cross right to left just underneath us. Saying there was any separation would be generous. After leveling off, the captain informed us the crossing traffic had taken off without clearance and once we landed the pilots were meeting with the FAA. If that happened today, there would be quite a few videos made. It was incredibly close.
I disagree with the conclusion that certain kinds of accidents are "no longer possible due to technology." The technology reduces certain risks, but most disasters are still possible.
Beautiful intro. It set the context of modern-day aviation challenges very clearly & succinctly. An awesome presentation as well. You can't get a better visual context than 2.25 Shaquille O'Neals... 😂
Line up and wait, simple instructions that the learjet didn't follow, talk about close, these near misses are becoming more and more frequent if you ask me, leaving me a bit nervous about flying
I remember getting a clearance once that I misinterpreted in this way: "Lineup Rwy 34, after takeoff turn right heading 020, expedite passing 2000 feet, wind calm." The controller caught my mistake before I was even 100 feet down the runway, but I all the "after takeoff" instructions had me pretty convinced that there was a takeoff clearance in that...
Did that happen a long time ago? As I understand that the rules are ATC will not use the word takeoff and any context other than a takeoff clearance. That was one of the lessons of Tenerife
The Delta Captain saved everyone. He had quick reflex when the air traffic said calmly go around. She was part of the save too. Lear Jet captain should not fly without new instruction.
The ADI is one thing but if it hadn't have been for the rapid assessment, cool and confident response of that remarkable ATC we would have certainly been looking at a different outcome. Kudos to her!!!!!!
Hey, just wanted to tell you I was a passenger in the BA 006 near miss in 2000, that you made a video of a month ago. Thank you for covering that incident!
What's absolutely fascinating is that air traffic is still primarily dependent on oral transmissions rather than something similar to railways' ATC - Automatic Train Control - that could be used to transmit and display clearances digitally, implement interlocking so conflicting clearances can't be issued, and perhaps even ensure that aircraft aren't taxied further than cleared.
I really don't know, just guessing, but could it be that each ATC member at major airports are dealing with hundreds of plans every hour, so maybe they don't have the time to map out each clearance?
550 million, eh? Seems like a bargain compared to, in worst case, two fully loaded A380s. And I'll bet that system _will_ be installed _after_ such an accident. But being reactive instead of proactive is every nation's favourite pastime. Every large airport should be mandated to have such a system. Perhaps the manufacturer needs a few more lobbyists…
Should've done the measurement between aircrafts in Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's instead of Shaq's, being as he played FO Roger Murdock in the 1980 classic "Airplane!"😉👍
It's fairly common to think that you have a specific clearance, even though you don't, and in my opinion confirmation bias plays a big role in it along with fatigue and exhaustion. Whenever I'm in doubt, even though the captain is sure, or vice versa, all I do is confirm or ask the captain to confirm with ATC in case I'm PF, just to be sure. Rather look stupid and exercise quick redundancy than become history/statistic. 😅
I agree! I m not a pilot,but just common sense to make it MANDATORY to reconfirm take off clearance once in position and immediately BEFORE starting take off roll...takes maybe 10 seconds but adds another swiss cheese layer
there was a similar incident at jfk where a plane took a wrong turn and entered an active runway while a rival jet was rolling for takeoff. you can hear the asde screaming when the controller frantically shouts "cancel takeoff clearance"
Or, if you don't want to spend half a billion, maybe you could just install a bunch of light barriers and/or roll-over pressure sensors across specific points on taxiways, which would warn you something has entered/exited a section it was not/was supposed to be in.
I wouldn't think that level of information would be nearly sufficiently granular to identify the situation effectively. Think about it -- if the Leer starts rolling but hasn't entered the next "section" yet, it may very well be too late at that point.
@@atallguynh one sensor at the end of the taxiway and/or start of the runway would immediately alert the tower though that an idiot started rolling without clearance, much at the same the radar system did.
@@AttilaAsztaloswould this info display to the ATC in a way that she could keep up with it in real time, or would it be seen only by pilots of the planes on the runway or approaching the runway on landing?
I’m a 33-year airline pilot and yes, ASDE-X is a wonderful tool, but of the obvious points not made in this this video is the horrendous configuration of some (mostly older) airports, Boston being among the worst. They have multiple intersecting runways and very convoluted taxiways that makes these kinds of incidents much more likely. I’m still of the opinion that the most likely cause of a major loss of life casualty in the US airspace system is a collision on or near the ground at one of these airports.
wasn't there another intersection near miss in Boston just a few days ago? have a feeling that one also involved a Citation jet... though, one of the main reasons for the break in the accident chain was that the modern advanced system actually gave an early resolution directly to both planes, resulting in a more healthy 100ft separation. I think that was in Boston (Logan)...
"I thought I had clearance" ... It's just crazy when aviation is relying on some ancient AM radios for critical messages. No logging is available to the pilots. Any pilots who has never lost messages? Look, no hands! FAA should hurry up an phase out AM radios and phase in a decent system where messages are securely transmitted, received, checked and logged and status of clearances etc are available to both pilots and ATC at all times.
I don’t understand why Boston’s airport (and the FAA) allow simultaneous takeoffs and landings on intersecting runways. This seems like an invitation for bad mistakes to happen.
Hard disagree. Any tech that needs a human to recognise and interpret the conflict (possibly after overcoming the startle effect from the alarm) and get onto a busy radio frequency to resolve that conflict is going to fail. I would feel better about this system flashing so many red runway lights at the Learjet that they might get a clue immediately, but still. As long as US airports keep firing planes at each other and hoping they don't hit in the middle, all the tech does is slap another layer of Swiss cheese on top of a gaping hole.
@ReformCopyright made a similar comment comparing aviation's ATC (air traffic control), which depends on listening to the snippet of poor quality audio instruction addressing you in a sea of irrelevant content with railways' ATC (automatic train control), which lights up indicators in the cabin and interlocks signals with switches so you literally can't enter a section without authorisation even if you wanted to.
I think "Line up and wait " is a potentially unsafe procedure as pilots are usually busy during the this stage of takeoff and mind plays tricks when actually on a runway rather that short. Get on the runway and tafeoff should be more safer command. I know time is money and pilots are trained to handle a lot of things. So, just a humble though.
I'm wondering something actually having caught a bit of KBOS comms and US ATC comms in general. Is the speed and accents of controllers a contributing factor then? A thick Boston or NY accent isn't the easiest to understand if... 1. They are talking fast 2. You are listening while doing a checklist. maybe procedures need to be looked at more so this isn't a problem
The Lear Jet Captain was highly experienced, with around 22,000 hours under his belt. While experience on one hand means a mistake is less likely, probability means that the longer you keep doing something, the more likely something negative occurring becomes. It’s why the art of risk assessment is very interesting, but at the same time, very difficult to achieve the right outcome all of the time. Sooner or later, and no matter how much we try to prevent it, it all catches up with you; the balance of probabilities is a relentless master.
Complacency is absolutely a thing, but probabilities do not increase with time alone. If there's a 1/1000 chance of something occurring, 10 years later the chance is still 1/1000.
@@manishm9478 Murphy’ Law, who incidentally was an experienced and highly competent aerospace engineer, states that ‘anything that can go wrong, will go wrong’, with the time of occurrence being the only unknown. But that means longer the timeline, the more likely it is to happen. Pure mathematical probability is one discussion; but aircraft operate in the real world, where things are different.
I m not a pilot,but just common sense to make it MANDATORY to reconfirm take off clearance once in position and immediately BEFORE starting take off roll...takes maybe 10 seconds but adds another swiss cheese layer
I'd want to know the other radio traffic. If it's a busy airport and the Leer is waiting "hand on throttle", I have to ask if a similar call sign wasn't cleared to depart and the Leer jumped the gun.
I have said quite often, why are clearances like these just given verbally ? It is almost trivial to put a system in place where the ATC sends a message electronically to a plane which in turn has a red "Cleared for TakeOff/Landing" light on the dashboard. Or even just on the runway ?. This ONLY goes green when given a clearance. It could be set to turn back to red or just go off after e.g. 30 seconds. This would be partcularly useful in single-pilot setups. Maybe someone could tell me how many "misheard" ATC instructions are recorded each year ?
after the westjet 737 horror of plane approaching a taxiway which had 2 heavys and one narrow body short of runway, this is my second most horrifying near miss of the planes.
The FAA needs to consider putting some temp art restrictions on aviation like distance from airport and take and landing distances. An accident is going to happen FAA anyone within the FAA who reads please consider putting immediate safety measures that would be temporary right-now.
There was a meme making the rounds a few years back, that stated, it take 10,000 hours to truly master a skill. Every time I hear of an accident were the pilots have 10,000+ flight hours, it always makes me think of that meme, and how it was obviously wrong, lol. The other thing that gets me is, you'd think if a pilot was to be involved in an incident, it would be earlier in their careers, and I know sometimes it is, but like a newly minted pilot can manage his 1st solo flight without an incident, how do they manage to crash with 20,000 hours?
Not making excuses, but the brain works on patterns, and if every time you line up on the runway, you get cleared for takeoff, then you might jump the gun (a metaphor which, funnily enough, comes track and field, which also involves a lineup and takeoff of sorts).
When I heard of the ASDEx in the first half of the video, I thought, "thats cool but probably costs quite a lot"... despite that, when I heard its 550 million price tag, an involuntary whistle came out of my mouth... 😅 Half a billion... thats crazy😂
The system wouldn’t have saved anyone in Tenerife though. The Dutch Captain *knew* he didn’t have takeoff clearance but took off - or tried to - anyway. He didn’t take any more notice of ATC than his colleagues on the flight deck. I don’t know if this system would have been practical there anyway, as the planes were all jammed together, parked on the taxiway and having to use the one runway to backtrack along prior to takeoff. Enough to confuse any system.
Even with all the technology, if that ATC didn't tell Jet Blue to go around, and if Jet Blue responded even 2 seconds later, this could have still been a tragedy.
That separation is just two bananas away Maybe there's one country in the world that knows that distance, however the entire rest of the world are trying to work out what distance Americans use for their bananas.
my first thougt i got was that the lear jet cptn som how miss or did not ask for a take off clerance or he just did not pay attainsion to what airtrafic control said to him. and yes i beleve that technolegy has saved many lives . 👍👍👍👍👍👍🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
It's pretty obvious to me. The pilot of the Learjet did not pay full attention to the task at hand. As to why his first officer did not intervene might be down to personal reasons, as has been the case many times before. If the pilot is confident enough in taking of, as he would be if he genuinely believes he has clearance for takeoff, then the first officer might think "Seems legit". Human error, as they say.
So hang on, they weren’t actually physically that close to each other, just that they had this vertical height difference? Even if they were hundreds of feet apart?
Yeah. What an exceptional controller. Because ALL the others are screaming maniacally ''HEY...FLIGHT XXX GO AROUND. QUICKLY GO AROUND NOW, GO AROUND DAMMIT, GO AROUND OR WE'RE DOOMED. DOOOOOMED I TELL YA''. She was just doing her job correctly ffs. But we know what's going here. Also, why didn't you provide the captain's name but only his gender, huh? Same fucken reason I guess. From NTSB's final report on this incident: "'The captain, Alvaro Donado, said in a statement to the safety board, “I cannot understand what happened to me during the clearance, the only thing that comes to my mind is that the cold temperature in Boston affected me, I was not feeling completely well and had a stuffed nose. My apologies.” Great job Alvaro. Great job.
Nah, Line Up And Wait is international atc lingo. What is special for the US is that atc can issue multiple landing and/or takeoff clearances for the same runway.
@@stephenj4937 only in the u.s do planes line up on a active runway while planes are on approach don't belive me watch the new mentor pilot video and what would I know I just fly a plane everyday
@@avgeek-and-fashion you will not get a landing clearance while a plane is lined up on the active runway anywhere but in the u.s . I Europe no clearance will be issued until then runway is clear of the departure. In the u.s you can be issues a landing clearance while a plane is on the runway lined up and holding. That's how southwest was on the runway last week when a plane was giving clearanc e to land. The controller never gave the southwest plane clearance and the private jet was issued a go around. No other country allows planes to line up and wait while a plane is cleared to land. It has to be a clear day and within a certain weather conditions but in the u.s it's allowed
@@avgeek-and-fashion watch yesterday video he will explain it better with the weather minimums and how only In the u.s is it legal to issue landing clearances when a plane is holding on the active runway.
LUAW needs to be stopped. Waiting needs to be done OFF of the runway. Period! Then there's no way that anyone can absent-mindedly think that they are cleared to take off because they aren't even on the runway yet. Safety First. LUAW = Safety Third.
As usual stupid humans almost crashed aircraft and only smart machines managed to avoid such scenario. Are you still against having only one pilot and 5 control systems in the cockpit ?
How long before AI replaces air traffic controllers ? and when it does, it should be enabled to divert flying aircraft from colliding, and shut down/ stop aircraft on the ground from incursions & collisions. IMHO.
A law firm used AI to produce a court brief. The result cited several legal cases that did not actually exist. The judge was not amused. Sanctions and fines resulted.
Hey Mini, I get it you are using industry nomenclature but “grammar police here” a near miss is something that ALMOST missed but did not., to be graphic. Tenerife was a true “near miss”. If the second plane was NOT a jumbo its possible the tragedy would have been avoided This was a “near hit” I just wish aviation people would change the terminology. Sigh.
You’re actually wrong. Perhaps you’re not a native English speaker, which I totally understand and laud you for learning English to the standard that you have, but “near miss” is an idiomatic expression that means that a collision almost occurred, but did not.
@@F-Man Exactly, I've never heard the expression 'near hit' in my entire life. It's complete BS. You could say that they nearly collided, or nearly hit each other, but if they narrowly avoid a collision then it's a near miss
A near hit = actual contact A near miss = nearly missed... Amazing how you can type out an entire paragraph about it, but not be bothered to simply search the definitions on the web.
OSHA defines a near miss as incidents “in which a worker might have been hurt if the circumstances had been slightly different.” Near misses are also referred to as “close calls”, “narrow escapes” or “miss accidents”. So according to OSHA, "near miss" means it was almost an accident. Yeah, I know, seems counter intuitive to me too. I guess they're saying it was a miss, but just barely.
I was actually in an Embraer that did a go-around at about 200 feet due to a ground vehicle getting too close to our runway. The sudden punch of acceleration as the engines slammed to full power was enough to push me hard into my seat back. There was a lot of gasping and a few startled yelps from the passengers. Those little regional jets apparently have a secret F-16 mode. 🙂
Thats why i personally love regional jets. Theyre the sports cars of commercial aviation. The 737 is the bus that gets you from point a to b and the airbus is the charter bus
Was on an E175 that had like only 10 passengers (on the way to Boston, coincidentally), seemed like entered Space Shuttle mode on takeoff.
I had the same situation in an Airbus A320 a few years ago - a last-minute go-around due to an obstruction on the runway. It was a much stronger acceleration than takeoff and there were screams. The pilot got on the PA and apologised for the surprise 😅
I’ve been in a go around when 2 planes at Palma airport got too close to each other. I know what you mean when you say you were pushed hard back into your seat. I remember the steep angle the plane pulled up at as well. This was in 2001.
The reason for this comes down to basically the same reason for a lot of the 11 ft 8 bridge crashes: "I thought I had clearance"
yovo68 channel on youtube. They're funny to watch, but only because only trucks got crushed, nobody died. Midair collision, not so funny. Incredible how close this came to being one.
I think the actual reason for most of the 11 foot 8 bridge crashes isn’t that the driver thought they had clearance; it’s that the driver simply was not paying attention and didn’t even think about whether they had clearance or not.
@@Sashazur yep. totally oblivious to the fact that he's driving a truck, oblivious to the fact the truck goes up so high, oblivious to the fact that the bridge is low... Not paying attention to any of that.
Living in Durham, this is such an odd comment to find on this channel. 🤣 drove under that bridge every day for 7 years to work.
You Tube has put you on the map.Hello from Boston.@@westhubbard4126
Years ago (20+?), on approach to 33L at BOS in n a fully loaded B767, we were quite low over the water about to cross the shore when I felt and heard the landing gear go up! At the same time I heard the engines starting to spool up… quickly. In short order we were pushed into our seat backs, the nose came up, and the pilots were obviously clawing for every foot of altitude they could get from the aircraft. I had a left side window and looked down. Sure enough, a few seconds later I saw another airliner cross right to left just underneath us. Saying there was any separation would be generous. After leveling off, the captain informed us the crossing traffic had taken off without clearance and once we landed the pilots were meeting with the FAA. If that happened today, there would be quite a few videos made. It was incredibly close.
I disagree with the conclusion that certain kinds of accidents are "no longer possible due to technology." The technology reduces certain risks, but most disasters are still possible.
It adds another layer in the swiss cheese model. The probability of the holes lining up is decreased but not zero
Humans gonna human.
Technology only provides information, it's up to the humans to use that data correctly.
No take off clearance ring this number…um oops what do I tell them!!!
If the controller or pilot had taken a half-second longer to react, I think technology wouldn't have saved them.
For a little more than 1 A380 in price, this system is totally worth it.
Funny how Mentor Pilot and MACI uploaded videos about departure/approach near misses on the same day.
Yeah I saw Mentour Pilot during breakfast
Mentour Pilot takes 4 times the time to say the same thing. Did you know he sees a therapist?
@@Capecodhamwhat's your problem then??
He is clear to fly.
@@zuhayrkissoondoyal9201 You know that?
Beautiful intro. It set the context of modern-day aviation challenges very clearly & succinctly.
An awesome presentation as well. You can't get a better visual context than 2.25 Shaquille O'Neals... 😂
Line up and wait, simple instructions that the learjet didn't follow, talk about close, these near misses are becoming more and more frequent if you ask me, leaving me a bit nervous about flying
Loving your new measurement units😂
For the metric viewers, 16 feet is 4.87m
Or two Shaquille O'Neals..
3.25 Danny DeVitos...
It's actually 4.87m for ALL viewers.
this is aviation. Aviation always uses imperial feet
@@SpidaMez several countries use the metric system in aviation
My Saturday morning. Click on this video, before it starts rolling, click like, grab mug of Black Out coffee, enjoy both immensely.
I remember getting a clearance once that I misinterpreted in this way: "Lineup Rwy 34, after takeoff turn right heading 020, expedite passing 2000 feet, wind calm." The controller caught my mistake before I was even 100 feet down the runway, but I all the "after takeoff" instructions had me pretty convinced that there was a takeoff clearance in that...
Did that happen a long time ago? As I understand that the rules are ATC will not use the word takeoff and any context other than a takeoff clearance.
That was one of the lessons of Tenerife
@@neilkurzman4907 It was about 10 years ago, so yeah, quite a long time.
The Delta Captain saved everyone. He had quick reflex when the air traffic said calmly go around. She was part of the save too. Lear Jet captain should not fly without new instruction.
The ADI is one thing but if it hadn't have been for the rapid assessment, cool and confident response of that remarkable ATC we would have certainly been looking at a different outcome. Kudos to her!!!!!!
Those close calls are seemingly more and more frequent in the US
Hey, just wanted to tell you I was a passenger in the BA 006 near miss in 2000, that you made a video of a month ago. Thank you for covering that incident!
I like the way ATC gave them a number to ring at their destination…
What's absolutely fascinating is that air traffic is still primarily dependent on oral transmissions rather than something similar to railways' ATC - Automatic Train Control - that could be used to transmit and display clearances digitally, implement interlocking so conflicting clearances can't be issued, and perhaps even ensure that aircraft aren't taxied further than cleared.
I was just thinking that, relying on someone to interpret and remember something, not the best
sounds good in theroy but thats a high jackers wet dream
I really don't know, just guessing, but could it be that each ATC member at major airports are dealing with hundreds of plans every hour, so maybe they don't have the time to map out each clearance?
550 million, eh? Seems like a bargain compared to, in worst case, two fully loaded A380s. And I'll bet that system _will_ be installed _after_ such an accident. But being reactive instead of proactive is every nation's favourite pastime. Every large airport should be mandated to have such a system. Perhaps the manufacturer needs a few more lobbyists…
Should've done the measurement between aircrafts in Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's instead of Shaq's, being as he played FO Roger Murdock in the 1980 classic "Airplane!"😉👍
FO?
@@Capecodham First Officer
@@spddiesel What did you do with the time you saved not typing irst fficer?
@@Capecodham your mom
@@spddiesel Mature
It's fairly common to think that you have a specific clearance, even though you don't, and in my opinion confirmation bias plays a big role in it along with fatigue and exhaustion. Whenever I'm in doubt, even though the captain is sure, or vice versa, all I do is confirm or ask the captain to confirm with ATC in case I'm PF, just to be sure. Rather look stupid and exercise quick redundancy than become history/statistic. 😅
I agree! I m not a pilot,but just common sense to make it MANDATORY to reconfirm take off clearance once in position and immediately BEFORE starting take off roll...takes maybe 10 seconds but adds another swiss cheese layer
There were two in the cockpit. What was FO upto when he didn't catch that clearance.
there was a similar incident at jfk where a plane took a wrong turn and entered an active runway while a rival jet was rolling for takeoff. you can hear the asde screaming when the controller frantically shouts "cancel takeoff clearance"
Or, if you don't want to spend half a billion, maybe you could just install a bunch of light barriers and/or roll-over pressure sensors across specific points on taxiways, which would warn you something has entered/exited a section it was not/was supposed to be in.
Yeah 550 million is an absolute joke. Could probably do it for 10...more corruption as usual.
I wouldn't think that level of information would be nearly sufficiently granular to identify the situation effectively. Think about it -- if the Leer starts rolling but hasn't entered the next "section" yet, it may very well be too late at that point.
@@atallguynh one sensor at the end of the taxiway and/or start of the runway would immediately alert the tower though that an idiot started rolling without clearance, much at the same the radar system did.
@@AttilaAsztaloswould this info display to the ATC in a way that she could keep up with it in real time, or would it be seen only by pilots of the planes on the runway or approaching the runway on landing?
Thank God the captain who went around was on the ball.
right. what if he had hesitated.
MACI audio guy on full swing... (Hope he recovered good..😊)
I’m a 33-year airline pilot and yes, ASDE-X is a wonderful tool, but of the obvious points not made in this this video is the horrendous configuration of some (mostly older) airports, Boston being among the worst. They have multiple intersecting runways and very convoluted taxiways that makes these kinds of incidents much more likely. I’m still of the opinion that the most likely cause of a major loss of life casualty in the US airspace system is a collision on or near the ground at one of these airports.
I'd love to hear the real audio from that controller.
wasn't there another intersection near miss in Boston just a few days ago?
have a feeling that one also involved a Citation jet... though, one of the main reasons for the break in the accident chain was that the modern advanced system actually gave an early resolution directly to both planes, resulting in a more healthy 100ft separation.
I think that was in Boston (Logan)...
There was the Spirit Wings and the American Airlines go around at Logan last week, but I don't think that's what your referencing?
@@jdonovan74 no, I might be mixing the two stories from different airports then... possibly, the story with the Citation was the one in San Diego?
"I thought I had clearance" ... It's just crazy when aviation is relying on some ancient AM radios for critical messages. No logging is available to the pilots.
Any pilots who has never lost messages? Look, no hands!
FAA should hurry up an phase out AM radios and phase in a decent system where messages are securely transmitted, received, checked and logged and status of clearances etc are available to both pilots and ATC at all times.
I think technology reduces the risk of accidents but it doesn’t eliminate it.
I don’t understand why Boston’s airport (and the FAA) allow simultaneous takeoffs and landings on intersecting runways. This seems like an invitation for bad mistakes to happen.
Hard disagree.
Any tech that needs a human to recognise and interpret the conflict (possibly after overcoming the startle effect from the alarm) and get onto a busy radio frequency to resolve that conflict is going to fail. I would feel better about this system flashing so many red runway lights at the Learjet that they might get a clue immediately, but still.
As long as US airports keep firing planes at each other and hoping they don't hit in the middle, all the tech does is slap another layer of Swiss cheese on top of a gaping hole.
For the price, you'd think the planes would have a radar screen showing exactly who's where!
@ReformCopyright made a similar comment comparing aviation's ATC (air traffic control), which depends on listening to the snippet of poor quality audio instruction addressing you in a sea of irrelevant content with railways' ATC (automatic train control), which lights up indicators in the cabin and interlocks signals with switches so you literally can't enter a section without authorisation even if you wanted to.
I think "Line up and wait " is a potentially unsafe procedure as pilots are usually busy during the this stage of takeoff and mind plays tricks when actually on a runway rather that short.
Get on the runway and tafeoff should be more safer command. I know time is money and pilots are trained to handle a lot of things.
So, just a humble though.
I'm wondering something actually having caught a bit of KBOS comms and US ATC comms in general. Is the speed and accents of controllers a contributing factor then? A thick Boston or NY accent isn't the easiest to understand if...
1. They are talking fast
2. You are listening while doing a checklist. maybe procedures need to be looked at more so this isn't a problem
The Lear Jet Captain was highly experienced, with around 22,000 hours under his belt. While experience on one hand means a mistake is less likely, probability means that the longer you keep doing something, the more likely something negative occurring becomes. It’s why the art of risk assessment is very interesting, but at the same time, very difficult to achieve the right outcome all of the time. Sooner or later, and no matter how much we try to prevent it, it all catches up with you; the balance of probabilities is a relentless master.
The problem with a lot of experience is complacency.
Complacency is absolutely a thing, but probabilities do not increase with time alone. If there's a 1/1000 chance of something occurring, 10 years later the chance is still 1/1000.
@@manishm9478 Murphy’ Law, who incidentally was an experienced and highly competent aerospace engineer, states that ‘anything that can go wrong, will go wrong’, with the time of occurrence being the only unknown. But that means longer the timeline, the more likely it is to happen. Pure mathematical probability is one discussion; but aircraft operate in the real world, where things are different.
I m not a pilot,but just common sense to make it MANDATORY to reconfirm take off clearance once in position and immediately BEFORE starting take off roll...takes maybe 10 seconds but adds another swiss cheese layer
I'd want to know the other radio traffic. If it's a busy airport and the Leer is waiting "hand on throttle", I have to ask if a similar call sign wasn't cleared to depart and the Leer jumped the gun.
Why can't there be a traffic light which glows red light until the clearance is given?
I have said quite often, why are clearances like these just given verbally ? It is almost trivial to put a system in place where the ATC sends a message electronically to a plane which in turn has a red "Cleared for TakeOff/Landing" light on the dashboard. Or even just on the runway ?. This ONLY goes green when given a clearance. It could be set to turn back to red or just go off after e.g. 30 seconds. This would be partcularly useful in single-pilot setups. Maybe someone could tell me how many "misheard" ATC instructions are recorded each year ?
Consider the amount of traffic that goes by everyday. This would be unviable as a solution.
Boston airport has a ‘criss cross crash’ design. I hate it but Atlanta, Orlando, and LAX both did it the correct way.
after the westjet 737 horror of plane approaching a taxiway which had 2 heavys and one narrow body short of runway, this is my second most horrifying near miss of the planes.
At about the 7:00 mark, wasn’t it the the other way around (the 330 took off and the 737’s nosed was held down until the 330 passed overhead)?
We need this in all international airports
Echoes of Tenerife
The FAA needs to consider putting some temp art restrictions on aviation like distance from airport and take and landing distances. An accident is going to happen FAA anyone within the FAA who reads please consider putting immediate safety measures that would be temporary right-now.
The first thing I thought when pilot thought he was cleared for takeoff was van zanten.
There was a meme making the rounds a few years back, that stated, it take 10,000 hours to truly master a skill. Every time I hear of an accident were the pilots have 10,000+ flight hours, it always makes me think of that meme, and how it was obviously wrong, lol. The other thing that gets me is, you'd think if a pilot was to be involved in an incident, it would be earlier in their careers, and I know sometimes it is, but like a newly minted pilot can manage his 1st solo flight without an incident, how do they manage to crash with 20,000 hours?
Not making excuses, but the brain works on patterns, and if every time you line up on the runway, you get cleared for takeoff, then you might jump the gun (a metaphor which, funnily enough, comes track and field, which also involves a lineup and takeoff of sorts).
You are the GOAT.
When I heard of the ASDEx in the first half of the video, I thought, "thats cool but probably costs quite a lot"... despite that, when I heard its 550 million price tag, an involuntary whistle came out of my mouth... 😅 Half a billion... thats crazy😂
2.25 Shaquille O'Neals sounds like an ample distance.
The system wouldn’t have saved anyone in Tenerife though. The Dutch Captain *knew* he didn’t have takeoff clearance but took off - or tried to - anyway. He didn’t take any more notice of ATC than his colleagues on the flight deck. I don’t know if this system would have been practical there anyway, as the planes were all jammed together, parked on the taxiway and having to use the one runway to backtrack along prior to takeoff. Enough to confuse any system.
RADIO: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.
PILOT: Roger, good men do nothing.
Even with all the technology, if that ATC didn't tell Jet Blue to go around, and if Jet Blue responded even 2 seconds later, this could have still been a tragedy.
Never heard of this system.
And now we have!
That separation is just two bananas away
Maybe there's one country in the world that knows that distance, however the entire rest of the world are trying to work out what distance Americans use for their bananas.
The Learjet should have been ordered to return to Boston and told to park it for another day.
$550 million a piece?!? Does the system kindly tap the ATC controller on the shoulder pointing out the conflict while bringing them some Starbucks?? 😂
my first thougt i got was that the lear jet cptn som how miss or did not ask for a take off clerance or he just did not pay attainsion to what airtrafic control said to him.
and yes i beleve that technolegy has saved many lives .
👍👍👍👍👍👍🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
550 Million. That's a whole A380
Which airports in the US and the world have the ASD system installed and do you know what company makes it?
one time i was on a aeroplane and had to pee but was stuck between two fat people so i just went.
No read back from the Lear? Line up and wait requires a read back.
Why are there not traffic/stopping-lights at runways that are on red untill cleared to takeoff?
Wouldn’t it be a good idea if the pilots used their eyes? Or is the angle such that the Lear jet pilots could not see the Embraer?
Mini Aircrash investigatioion, do you respond to comments
Do I 👀
This wouldn't have happened if both A/C had a A.I. Robot at the controls. 🤷♀️😉
It's pretty obvious to me. The pilot of the Learjet did not pay full attention to the task at hand. As to why his first officer did not intervene might be down to personal reasons, as has been the case many times before. If the pilot is confident enough in taking of, as he would be if he genuinely believes he has clearance for takeoff, then the first officer might think "Seems legit".
Human error, as they say.
Wow. 😮
Why was he allowed to be on the runway lined up anyways when the other one was landing?
The Learjet did a KLM
something wrong with your sound... very low volume
edit... improved towards the end.
550 million seems like a lot but dilute that by all the incoming and outgoing planes out there... screw the bean-counters, mandate this!
Almost crashed a massive crash?
Yes
Lol that’s what I thought! I believe it’s caused not crashed!!!
"It's going to be the biggest chrash, they will chrashed!"
Caused* fixed now!
@@jean-bastienjoly5962 sort of describes the way I parallel park. I like this new term! Thanks.
Pilots hearing aid battery running low.
So hang on, they weren’t actually physically that close to each other, just that they had this vertical height difference? Even if they were hundreds of feet apart?
Retire the captain of the Learjet.
Not cleared for takeoff = "the smallest of things"? I don't think so.
That's not a lot of Shaquille O'Neils
Somebody please explain, i get the importance and how priceless it is to save lives but why does this system cost half a billion Dollars?
AI at work.
As long as there are fools and idiots, then there will be incidents and accidents.
Technology is good until mental laziness induces complacency ... oh the ASD will take care of it ...
Why didn't ATC tell the Learjet Captain to Punch it?
Yeah. What an exceptional controller. Because ALL the others are screaming maniacally ''HEY...FLIGHT XXX GO AROUND. QUICKLY GO AROUND NOW, GO AROUND DAMMIT, GO AROUND OR WE'RE DOOMED. DOOOOOMED I TELL YA''. She was just doing her job correctly ffs. But we know what's going here.
Also, why didn't you provide the captain's name but only his gender, huh? Same fucken reason I guess.
From NTSB's final report on this incident:
"'The captain, Alvaro Donado, said in a statement to the safety board, “I cannot understand what happened to me during the clearance, the only thing that comes to my mind is that the cold temperature in Boston affected me, I was not feeling completely well and had a stuffed nose. My apologies.”
Great job Alvaro. Great job.
Is Shaq really 8’ tall?
I love the 2.25 Shaquille O'Neals measuremeant lmao
No one wants another Tenerife
It's time for the pilot of that Learjet to retire. He's not fit for purpose
Lear jet I bet got Turbulence from that go around jet.
How can you tell a pilot to "Line up and wait" if there is another plane landing on the same runway???
They were intersecting runways so the "line up and wait" was perfectly acceptable.
It is allowed in the US, not so in Europe.
I can imagine the pilots of the Jet Blue pilots, they must have so shocked.
Yikes
Same thing just happend with southwest. Only in America does atc use line up and wait holds
Line up and wait is used all over the world.
Nah, Line Up And Wait is international atc lingo. What is special for the US is that atc can issue multiple landing and/or takeoff clearances for the same runway.
@@stephenj4937 only in the u.s do planes line up on a active runway while planes are on approach don't belive me watch the new mentor pilot video and what would I know I just fly a plane everyday
@@avgeek-and-fashion you will not get a landing clearance while a plane is lined up on the active runway anywhere but in the u.s . I Europe no clearance will be issued until then runway is clear of the departure. In the u.s you can be issues a landing clearance while a plane is on the runway lined up and holding. That's how southwest was on the runway last week when a plane was giving clearanc e to land. The controller never gave the southwest plane clearance and the private jet was issued a go around. No other country allows planes to line up and wait while a plane is cleared to land. It has to be a clear day and within a certain weather conditions but in the u.s it's allowed
@@avgeek-and-fashion watch yesterday video he will explain it better with the weather minimums and how only In the u.s is it legal to issue landing clearances when a plane is holding on the active runway.
LUAW needs to be stopped. Waiting needs to be done OFF of the runway. Period! Then there's no way that anyone can absent-mindedly think that they are cleared to take off because they aren't even on the runway yet.
Safety First.
LUAW = Safety Third.
As usual stupid humans almost crashed aircraft and only smart machines managed to avoid such scenario. Are you still against having only one pilot and 5 control systems in the cockpit ?
We have to face it : machines do.job better than us.
How long before AI replaces air traffic controllers ?
and when it does, it should be enabled to divert flying aircraft from colliding, and shut down/ stop aircraft on the ground from incursions & collisions.
IMHO.
ATC did nothing wrong in this scenario; not sure how AI can stop a pilot from imagining a takeoff clearance.
A law firm used AI to produce a court brief. The result cited several legal cases that did not actually exist. The judge was not amused. Sanctions and fines resulted.
Hey Mini, I get it you are using industry nomenclature but “grammar police here” a near miss is something that ALMOST missed but did not., to be graphic. Tenerife was a true “near miss”. If the second plane was NOT a jumbo its possible the tragedy would have been avoided This was a “near hit” I just wish aviation people would change the terminology. Sigh.
You’re actually wrong. Perhaps you’re not a native English speaker, which I totally understand and laud you for learning English to the standard that you have, but “near miss” is an idiomatic expression that means that a collision almost occurred, but did not.
@@F-Man Exactly, I've never heard the expression 'near hit' in my entire life. It's complete BS. You could say that they nearly collided, or nearly hit each other, but if they narrowly avoid a collision then it's a near miss
A near hit = actual contact
A near miss = nearly missed...
Amazing how you can type out an entire paragraph about it, but not be bothered to simply search the definitions on the web.
You call yourself the grammar police, then use a comma after a full stop 😂
OSHA defines a near miss as incidents “in which a worker might have been hurt if the circumstances had been slightly different.” Near misses are also referred to as “close calls”, “narrow escapes” or “miss accidents”.
So according to OSHA, "near miss" means it was almost an accident. Yeah, I know, seems counter intuitive to me too. I guess they're saying it was a miss, but just barely.
Like George Carlin once said, when two planes almost collide, that's not a near miss, it's a near hit.
Because human factors.