Arctozolt is the tiering anomaly to rule all tiering anomalies. The thing has been around for a single generation yet it’s lived a defensive Water/Ground mon’s lifetime in that short span of time.
The fact Hidden Power got removed and almost every Electric-type lost its valuable Ice coverage also boost Arctozolt popularity Imagine if Arctozolt didnt get outspeed by ONE point against scarf lando
Alolan sandslash doesn't have the same issue, but the fact that steel ice is such a bad combo for coverage and quad weaknesses, as well as being solely physical, really nerfs it compared to arc. Shame because it's my favourite mon :(
@@Almond19912 it's quad damage with double weakness. Not a quad weakness. The damage output would be so much crazier on quad weakness. It would also mean attacks themselves have finally become multi type.
I think it's worth saying that: in September 2020, Piloswine usage was quite mediocre around 7%. Then Arctozolt dropped and, in October 2020, Piloswine was the most used mon with 24% usage because it was basically the only check to that fossile (something like Magneton or Lanturn still feared Stomping Tantrum or Freeze Dry)
@@foofootoo I can add in addition to that statement. Arctozolt unlike the other pokemon on the banslate you mentioned was available to us in NU directly at Crown Tundra thanks to the ability patch. We couldn't have really banned it right away despite knowing well enough that it was broken. It's standard to wait if we know a big wave of tier changes are about to hit us anyways in a near future. Thus for that time Piloswine climbed to massive usage to check a near singular obvious broken threat. Even after the ban, you explained it quite well, we had other options like Arctovish. Initially, you didn't add this aspect to it. Arctovish itself has Aurora Veil, and this tied into why we banned Aurora Veil. The last gen way of using Aurora Veil involved setting hail with a setter, potentially sacking the setter, and than going to a weather abuser with Auroa Veil (Sandslash-alola, but now in this gen also Arctovish) and maintaining offensive pressure to assure Veil. This gen we gained Vish to do that, but also weather setters with Aurora Veil in Aurorus/Abomasnow creating variety in Stealth Rocks or outs to Fat water pokemon respectively while setting Hail. This combo was so oppressive that the sole answer to this set up was Vaporeon as Vish needed Life Orb Freeze Dry with investment to 2HKO that, which ment you couldn't run Light Clay either. And for just 2 team slots you had a solid opening, screen support without loss of momentum, and potentially Stealth Rocks and set up in someones face with up to 4 set up pokemon making even Turtonator a valid threat. Even with the at-the-time limited list of set up pokemon we had concerns to follow up with bans on Veil at some point. Though these concerns are split from the time stamps of Arctozolts oppressive introductions as they lingered during that instead.
I remember when False Swipe Gaming covered Quagsire. They didn't even know what to make of it. Viable, but not too viable everywhere but Little Cup, and for that you could use Wooper.
It has the second best defensive typing, an amazing ability that stops setup sweepers, and a recovery move. That’s all it needs to find a niche in literally any tier at any given time.
@@EliteDiamond. NU is NeverUsed, which is a tier for Pokémon with pretty low usage. PU is a tier lower than it, and it supposedly means "pee-yeew", as in "Pokémon that really stink in competitive play". RU is RarelyUsed, which is Pokémon that, by usage, are, well, rarely used. Finally, UUBL is UnderUsed Ban List, Pokémon not allowed in UnderUsed.
@@EliteDiamond. To add on to what the above reply said, the tiers in descending order are: - Anything Goes/AG: A tier that exists solely because of Mega Rayquaza. It means there are no restrictions on anything whatsoever. - Ubers: The ultimate ban tier before Anything Goes. Most if not all of the Pokémon here could singlehandedly dominate any lower tier, requiring them to be put up here with their fellow abominations of strength. - OverUsed/OU: The primary competitive tier, with plenty of variety in its roster and a healthy metagame... most of the time. - UnderUsed/UU: Pokémon in this tier are *decent,* but unable to properly thrive in OU. - RarelyUsed/RU: To my knowledge, this tier didn't always exist, but after later generations added so many Pokémon of varying power levels that there was now a clear gap between UU and NU, RU was created to fill that void. - NeverUsed/NU: Until Gen 6, the absolute lowest tier to have an actual metagame. Pokémon in this tier, save for a few niche cases, would be ground to dust in OU. - PU: Like the previous reply said, PU isn't an acronym, it's just a joke about how everything in this tier stinks. Created in Gen 6 after Mega Evolution, Fairy-types, and other sources of powercreep caused formerly decent mons to drop to NU, so the mons that were already in NU and some Untiered mons got sent to a new bottom tier. - Untiered/ZU: If a Pokémon is absolutely unusable, not even having any advantageous niches it can exploit in a Singles format, this is where it ends up. There is no Untiered metagame, though the introduction of PU allowed a few lucky mons to escape this realm of obscurity. - Little Cup: If a mon is Untiered-level trash solely on account of being the first stage in an evolutionary line, it winds up here, in a metagame surrounded by other first-stagers. Some first-stage mons can still be so powerful they get banned to one of the big boy tiers. - BL (either BanList or BorderLine depending on who you ask): I don't know if every tier has its own BL or if that's only a UU thing, hence why I separated it from the rest of the tiers. A Pokémon in BL is both too good for the tier it's been banned from, and unable to achieve viability in the next tier up, leaving it in a sort of limbo. Remember that void I mentioned RU being created to fill? This is that void.
It's impressive and cool (pun intended) to see a Pokémon being banned from 3 different tiers on the same generation. The only similar case from another generation I can think of right now is Venomoth in Generation 6, which was banned twice during that generation. It was first banned from UU while being NU by usage back when Baton Pass was allowed and then, when BP was banned, it was banned from RU because of the sheer power of Quiver Dance + Tinted Lens. Edit: fixed some errors and added some things
Credit to the slow dino slowly creeping a chill into the competitive scene. That is what I think makes Pokémon as a game series keep its strength: an ever changing meta nearly balanced to what people decide to do. Even if I'm very anti-smogon I cannot help but laugh at the prospect that this thing single-handedly caused a new weather balance check for tiers under its second highest rating. To think I too was sleeping on Arctozolt's incredible viability.
@@foofootoo Absolutely, they are monsters after all, got to catch them all. Not just that, ever since Gen 2 the level of customization has been near limitless making some able to completely counter a steamrolling sweeper (without hazards). Like Sudowoodo as much shit as some will give it for its speed, has the greatest potential to catch people off guard with Counter, Wood Hammer, especially in a trick room. Or you could Power Trick Baton Pass via Gliscor or Gligar in Gen 7 (not 8 since it isn't there). Something to look into along with maybe the move Gravity. For real, Gravity would guarantee a move never misses by adding 30 in accuracy for all on the field while revoking flying and levitation Pokémon since Telekinesis was removed for Sword and Shield. So many moves, so little time to explore fully.
Having stopped playing competitive after isle of armor I was shocked to see this video. I remember trying to make Zolt work on trick room and webs teams and thought this is almost there. Love that it finally got there with slush rush
The problem with using it in Trick Room teams seems mainly that Trick Room works best in doubles, and Arctozolt just doesn't combo well with Trick Room setters like Indeedee and Dusclops. At best, you'd sweep with Hatterene and have Arctozolt as a backup.
I allways hate it when a niche role in a higher tier rips away a pokemon from a lower tier where it's honestly doing fine. It's a fundamental problem of using usage as a tier decider and a bansystem that not only prevents usage in the tier it's banned from but also everything below it. I haven't played pokemon showdown in years now, but when i still did I allways felt like usage was a great argument to put a pokemon in a tier lower, but a poor argument to move that pokemon back up through the tiers. Like i remember amoonguss being RU for the longest time and then at one point amoonguss rose in popularity in OU which then ripped it away from it's home in RU and even UU where it saw barely any play.
Yeah it's usually bulky Pokemon that happens too, stuff like Quagsire or Mandibuzz can be in NU/PU, then rocket to OU when they're used as a check to one specific Pokemon. It does seem strange...
@@natnew32 I think voting is a better way then usage to move mons back up a tier. High usage in a tier above doesn't allways mean broken in current tier. it's like FooFoo said, it happens alot to bulky mons (mandibuzz, amoonguss, ... ) who suddenly spike in popularity in higher tiers because they find a specific niche for that pokemon (otherwise why did it go down in the first place) In a similar fashion I do not think slush rush should have been banned. the fossils are the offenders, but don't come tell me that slush rush beartic is the pinnacle of overpowered in RU. It's the combination of slush rush + bolt beak/fishious rend that was broken. Now, I understand why they ban the way they do. It's easier to do a simple ban, it's less complicated coding, complexity doesn't allways improve gameplay, etc. However, in certain cases a complex ban should be prefered IMO. If Arctozolt was UU to begin with, then I wouldn't be opposed to a simple ban. You'd only be affecting 1 tier at that point so a simple ban would do the trick and remove the problem from the tier it's currently in. What I don't like is that now a tier higher up the list has a problem because of a niche situation, a niche that isn't present in the lower tiers due to certain restrictions more justifiable as it had multiple offenders. In this case I strongly believe a complex ban is more preferable as it is not 1 single thing that makes arctozolt too strong, but instead a combination of factors. In UU you could have banned multiple pieces of the puzzle and achieved the same thing: No arctozolt + bolt beak No arctozolt + slush rush No Arctozolt + Snow Warning user in same team They all would have had the same effect as banning Arctozolt from UU but with the benefit of allowing Arctozolt in the lower tiers. Out of the 3 it is obvious that arctozolt + slush rush is the best complex ban as smogon allready banned slush rush in all tiers lower, therefor that's the one that if you would do complex bans, you should go with. But in the end, I'm not the one in charge, so all I feel is a sense of missed opportunity and sadness for the lower tiers who lose a fun toy for something out of their control.
@@DJarr216 The thing is, if you use usage rating for moving down but not up, it can become completely arbitrary whether or not a pokemon exists in a tier. What if a pokemon in a higher tier would be fine in a lower tier, however their usage in the higher tier prevents them from dropping? Well they can't drop, can they? This is exactly the same situation as Arctozolt, the only difference is that the pokemon hasn't been in the lower tier before this time. And yet the result isn't the same. Why? Why do pokemon suggenly get grandfathered into tiers that their usage DOES NOT imply they should get into? Other pokemon don't get the same treatment. Also, "UnderUsed" refers to pokemon that aren't used as much (in the tier above), so why is a pokemon that does get used frequently in the tier above allowed to stay? It goes against the tiering philosophy.
@@natnew32 You don't get my point, honestly. Usage is a good measurement to determine relative individual strenght. If it is too weak, it doesnt see usage, therefor it drops. Pokemon who get banned are deemed to be too strong. Now say usage in RU rises again for a pokemon but the NU counsil does not think a ban is warranted. That means that the community as a whole doesnt think said pokemon is too strong therefor there is reason to keep it down. Yout argument about a pokemon with enough usage to prevent dropping maybe being weak enough is valid BUT if you do it for one you have to do it for all which means endless testing. The tiering system works best from the top down, rather then the bottom up. You could argue that overused is a poorly chosen name as is could lead you to think the opposite is true. It is too good, therefor it is overused. Pokemon with a niche role in higher tiers are what i would call the equivalent of tech cards in card games. If you look at their statistics you see something interesting. In matchups where there effect is usefull they overpreform compared to their average matchup. In this case arctozolt in an environment where snow warning and slush rush are both allowed it overperformes which is what warranted the ban. Take away the perfect combo and its usage crumbles. Evidence that without the perfect environment it is weak. Now if you look at combo decks in card games, you will sometimes see a combo that is too good to keep existing. If you then ask the playerbase which part of the combo is the problem then you allmost never get a unanymous answer. And what happened? RU said that snow warning was the problem. That wasn't the awnser cuz suddenly slush rush is the problem. Then the problem extents to UU and they then decide that is in fact arctozolt itself who is the problem. But we know artozolt sucks if you take away the thing that makes it broken. So then why ban arctozolt as a whole? It's the equivalent of using a nuclear missile to kill a fly.
I'll put it this way. I want to pat and protect all of the fossils. I'm definitely moved by Arctozolt's journey... buuuuuut, for some reason Mr. Fish (Dracovish) just resonates with me so much more, so despite this incredible rocky adventure, I can't help but still favour other fossils over this brave little warrior
@@foofootoo while there are some other fossil mons I really like, I have to say that the galar ones are pretty unique... sad, but definitely stand out in both design and "feel" to them ^^
The change I suggested for the "Slow Start" ability to allow it to set up a temporary trick room (3-5 turns) upon entry, would also resolve the issue w/ Arctozolt's signature move (Bolt Break). Wouldn't that be a quick fix to a formerly "hindering" ability? And it'd be useful for slower partners like Arctozolt, during double battles. 🤷🏾♂️
Why do people keep trying to think of "ways to buff Slow Start"? Like? Do y'all not comprehend Regigigas' lore or something? Slow Start is because it's taking a while to take up after being you know a slumbering giant for thousands of years, you're gonna take a while to get up after that Like yeah Gigas sucks because of his ability but that's literally the whole point. He's not SUPPOSED to be good. He'/s a loremon, not a fighting one
@@SnoFitzroy I think you might have a "slow start" mentally. My suggestion is to "you know" make Regigigas's temporary "slow start" advantageous. Being slower would benefit Regi, because of the physics of "trick room" (where slower Pokemon have priority). Activating a temporary trick room upon entry is a unique addition to an ability which also temporarily cuts the user's stats. WTF are you even talking about "Loremon"? You do realize that Pokemon can have lore, & not "suck", right? And you're acting as if they haven't been improving upon Pokemon to make them better (& competitively more viable). And, the pre-existing Pokemon already has its lore, design, moves, fan-base, etc. , so it makes far more business sense to improve upon it, than to completely create a new one.
Arctozolt is my favourite gen 8 fossil. I loved the way it looked and wasn't overused like dracovish due to obvious reasons. Ice typing is one of my favourite types in general.
Since were talking about weather wars, here’s a concept Exeggutor chlorophyll Max speed skill swap Groudon max speed Choice band or scarf using precipice Blades and irruption Groudon set up Ken outspeed eleki
If opposing weather setters are interfering Not sure if this will work Groudon holding lagging tail Fast prankster user holding selected item using Switcheroo or trick
@@erics802 Actually that would do good against opposing weather. When you swap drought to the other pokemon it activates and makes it sunny again, so it would reset the turn you swap
i think this is super interesting, as someone who only plays cartridge formats, hearing the rumblings of arctozolt’s uu ban was really wild. for what it’s worth, i think arctozolt struggles in vgc because of regieleki more than anything, the draco versions both outspeed eleki where as the arcto’s don’t, and having boosted speed only to still be outsped is quite a detriment. it also doesn’t help vgc is dominated by sun.
Arctozolt reminds me of all those trick room only mons and other weather sweepers that are actually used in way higher tiers but end up in PU because their use case is just not a very commonly played archetype. It's pretty funny how frozen Woodstock over here got banned 3 times though. It also makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside because I unironically love this guy. Its design always makes me smile.
Always great to see slept on mons end up being meta. The best thing about arctozolt is that it isn't meant for just dedicated hail teams.. you can run it on HO teams with ninetails for screens. You lose 3 turns of hail, but when you're switching in and out and most HO mons only stay for a kill and switch out it really doesn't matter. Ice/electric are dummy good STABs too. Dracozolt can't kill anything because it lacks the coverage arctozolt has. It also can't run mixed sets because it sacrifices its already mediocre kill power. Arctozolt can get away with it because whatever it hits with not bolt beak is taking super effective damage.
I'm just theorycrafting because it's been rattling around my head. Maybe this isn't all that great but it's an idea nonetheless. Maybe it could be somewhat useful on trick room teams since it has naturally lower speed? Run a Brave nature and have it switch into a neutral move to let it run wild possibly? Idk maybe I'm just capping XD
It's a reasonable idea! They would have to have a Brave nature, and there still might be some Pokemon that would be natural slower, but it could be worth testing
I was not aware of the viability of Arctozolt(and technically Arctovish) or the journey it endured through the Smogon tiers. Looks like all 4 of the Galar fossil Pokémon were worth using on an in-game team, rather than Dracozolt and primarily Dracovish.
Arctovish with a slush rush, choice band Fishous Rend is so consistently breaking its insane, very few mons could genuinely hold out over switching in and taking yet another rend, such as Milotic
Ice/electric is a very volatile STAB combination, it's extremely powerful offensively, but defensively, it's awful. But if you move first, like arctozolt kinda needs to, it can be insane.
getting banned from UU over a specific niche despite it being obstensibly a low tier, and thus being abruptly ejected from everywhere else where it was doing nothing wrong, is why I don't respect smogon tiering.
It is a specific niche because not many Slush Rush Pokémon can do that. And it specifically is a Slush Rush Pokémon because any other Hail-dependent ability is useless. You have Alolan Sandslash and Arctozolt. By typing alone, Alolan Sandslash is out because Fire attacks, Ground attacks, and Fighting attacks are common everywhere. Furthermore, Ice/Steel is not a potent offensive combo which is what you need to do good as an Ice type, or otherwise be fast. Also, Alolan Sandslash has to set up to be good, while under hail Arctozolt is fast and hits hard, requirements for a good Ice type barring Froslass (and it too hits hard). There is no reason to not use Arctozolt as your Slush Rush sweeper in OU, and there is no reason to use anything else.
@@iantaakalla8180 I mean, there is A reason to use alolaslash, namely, its speed and movepool are much better than arctozolt, letting it outspeed zeraora, scarf lando, scarf blacephalon, scarf kartana, and its steel coverage lets it ohko physdef clef, now, these benefits don't outweigh the downsides, namely, losing to corviknight, but they do exist.
I can’t get over the fact of how weak, non exclusive physical electric moves are. Wild Charge is basically a physical thunderbolt with recoil, while Aura wheel is 110BP with 100% accuracy and raises speed.
Funny thing is, I was working with this pokemon, knowing it's viability before I looked at how it was doing in smogon's list. Arctozolt was just one of my favorite pokemon, combined with alolan ninetales being another favorite. I always was looking for ways to play hail teams and arctozolt, my favorite sneeze dragon was always my favorite fossil since I first laid eyes on it.
A sullen bird watches from the UUBL sidelines, silently nodding in approval as Arctozolt still makes it big in OU after getting banned from UU. “Fly free, little one. Fly free.”
@@ThisIsntAUA-camr Oh lol. Staraptor had its place taken by galarian zapdos this generation as the close combating UUBL bird. Never realized that until just now.
“With it’s 55 base speed stat, it’s rare that you’ll ever outspeed the opponent.” Meanwhile, me using my usual competitive trick room team but including Arctozolt
I don't think Drizzle can't be used in NU because Pelipper is in OU and Politoed is in RU. But Drought is available. It just shows how powerful hail has become this generation!
@@greenuvlight "Better" is extremely contextual. There are strong differences in the payoffs between the tiers, so even if there's a strong weather setter, if there aren't enough Pokemon that can take good advantage of it in the tier, then the weather setter isn't actually terribly good in the meta.
if an omnipotent being is tasked with pokemon tiers and they made the perfect tierlist, i wonder how often youd see a mon in like, balanced and allowed in both NU and OU but banned from UU, for example. It’d be so interesting to see
Wait, I don't completely understand smogon tiers, but let me get this straight. Arctozolt was too strong in the mid tiers with Slush Rush, so they banned Snow Warning, keeping Zolt in the tier but making it less auto-destruction. Zolt fell down to lower tiers without hail support, where it kinda had a niche for players who wanted to make it work. At the same time, Slush Rush Zolt and A-Ninetales are tearing up UU so bad that Zolt gets banned? And since it's UUBL now, slow non-hail Zolt can't get used in the low tiers? I kinda understand the sentiment against complex bans, {No Slush Rush Arctozolt with a Snow Warning user} is a lot more complicated, especially as they add up in a tier. But I wish Volt Absorb Zolt could still be a low tier trick room threat. Hopefully Zolt gets to kill a lot of Landos in OU in the meantime
Yeah it's a very strange situation! It is frustrating when one thing is making a Pokémon too strong, and banning that move or ability on that Pokémon would allow it to be used in lower tiers. But it's just smogon's approach since things could get very complicated very quickly if each Pokémon had a list of moves that were banned in lower tiers
It just seems like a terrible approach to me. "One or two mons are overperforming so we'll kill hail teams entirely" is such a bad option. It's one thing to ban evasion moves, entirely another to axe hail
In lower tiers, Omastar and Kabutops can function nicely. In stall teams, Cradily can put in lots of work. The rest suck in whatever tier they land in. (And I do mean wherever they land in: Aurorus, for example, always gets a few weeks of being good before it sinking in usage due to it being physically frail to two types known for its physical moves. In this generation alone, it basically proved set-up strats were so overpowering in NU that they took away its only niche.)
It’s Kind of sad that the worst weather out of the 4 is the one which has it’s weather ability pokemon all having 4x weaknesses In conclusion; buff hail/the ice type
Hail isn’t good: the Aurora Veil is and there were many setup sweepers. Hail has Blizzard but it is not widely distributed. Hail also has a useless Special Defense buff. Hail was just a convenient way to get screens up. Hail isn’t good like Drought/Drizzle/Sand Stream is. It’s only good indirectly because many Pokémon can use the instant screen that isn’t disjoint like Reflect and Light Screen setters are. The other three weathers have Pokémon that have weather-dependent abilities that can make maximum usage of those abilities. With hail, you only have Arctozolt and Vanilluxe: the other Slush Rush Pokémon requires too much and every other Hail-dependent ability sucks because weather isn’t permanent, the ability didn’t do much, or is banned for raising evasiveness. It was the setup sweepers that got Hail as a playstyle removed from NU. If anything, the bevy of Pokémon that can setup make Hail overpowering. Hail alone sucks, and Hail using Pokémon generally suck. Heck, half of the Hail setters suck, and Abomasnow was only useful because it was the only one before power creep of Gen 6. It is not Hail that is strong; in general it is the setup sweeping strategy that is strong and conjoined screen setup helps that immensely. Even Arctozolt doesn’t buck that trend but is noticeable because you just place Arctozolt in hail and he’s ready, but Arctozolt in hail is the setup so the setup is instantaneous as switching. Finally, Vanilluxe is a mono-Ice Hail Pokémon so it has no x4 weaknesses.
@@firezera Yeah. And so did Arctozolt on Hail teams in OU. They both did good in every tier they were in and could bounce between all of them. I fail to see the difference
@@kookio4284 Arcto's situation is not a niche, it is not there for countering Landorus-T or anything, it is in UUBL because it's a viable mon in OU. Unlike Quagsire, whose main purpose was to stop Zacian-C from sweeping a whole team, or Zarude; which the main objective is countering both Groudon and Kyogre.
I always thought that the fossil Pokémon were underrated but the latest generation really changed it, also glad that they dropped the "must be rock type cause fossil" concept, great video bro 😁❤
i always used arctozolt i did alot of the first arctozolt sets . when it didn't have slush rush i often tried to make it as bulky as possible and it worked well in pre dlc ubers due to the lack of pokemon in the meta . i sometimes suprise people with this sets .
Even though I'll probably NEVER do competitive pokemon seeing these interesting uses and dynamics for pokemon I wouldn't think twice about removing from my team makes me really wanna try some of them out. But then that brings me to given I only really play pokemon's single player campaign it dossn't reward good setups like that as much as I'd like for it to.
Choice scarf and EV speed training is honestly the best way to try boost its chances... Slush rush or this is the best choices honestly. Add it's moveset and it's mad! No wonder it was banned!
It’s also Ice type. Ice types, for good reason, are discounted barring Alolan Ninetales, Galarian Darmanitan, Weavile, Froslass, Mamoswine, Vanilluxe, Walrein before Gen 6, Kyurem in Gen 8, Piloswine, Sneasel in lower tiers, and Cloyster. The rest tend to suck.
So, out of curiousity, I'm thinking about using Arctozolt in a Trick Room team instead of snow. In theory, it should work, no? His coverage seems good for the team and it provides an option for a physical glass cannon.
I want there to be a tier where nothing is banned ever (except glitched in pokemon obviously) like go ahead use whatever you want, whenever you want. I wanna see what happens. Idk much about pokemon competitive so maybe this exists already (if so PLEASE let me know where i can find the wackiest shit from there)
There is, it's called "Anything Goes". The only rule is that you can't intentionally force a battle to continue forever. I'm not sure how active or serious it is, though.
@@brocksteele7475 It's not very serious because it's incredibly luck dependant. Things like compound eyes sleep powder butterfree can just cheese your whole team or you can just lose to 3 kyogres because one is scarf and one is specs and you can't tell. OHKO moves are cheap but occasionally effective and moody can steal games. Full baton pass is impossible to stop without specific counterplay and trapping abilities force kills or win for free often. It's fun but a complete mess.
Arctozolt is the tiering anomaly to rule all tiering anomalies. The thing has been around for a single generation yet it’s lived a defensive Water/Ground mon’s lifetime in that short span of time.
😆
Ah yes, the Quagsire conundrum.
@@Hyperneosonic97 and seismitoad
@@artimist0315 Ehh... not really. Seismitoad's always just been a worse Gastrodon.
@@Hyperneosonic97 It the other way around, Semitoads almost always prefer over Gastrodon besides gen5
The fact Hidden Power got removed and almost every Electric-type lost its valuable Ice coverage also boost Arctozolt popularity
Imagine if Arctozolt didnt get outspeed by ONE point against scarf lando
That speed difference is pretty frustrating
That's what snow cloak Articuno is for (doesn't actually do anything for most of the match, just sits there to mess with lando)
That is the most painful, infuriating edge case I've ever seen. I love it
Alolan sandslash doesn't have the same issue, but the fact that steel ice is such a bad combo for coverage and quad weaknesses, as well as being solely physical, really nerfs it compared to arc. Shame because it's my favourite mon :(
@@Almond19912 it's quad damage with double weakness. Not a quad weakness. The damage output would be so much crazier on quad weakness. It would also mean attacks themselves have finally become multi type.
I think it's worth saying that:
in September 2020, Piloswine usage was quite mediocre around 7%.
Then Arctozolt dropped and, in October 2020, Piloswine was the most used mon with 24% usage because it was basically the only check to that fossile (something like Magneton or Lanturn still feared Stomping Tantrum or Freeze Dry)
Yeah Pilo was the niche check to it that became mainstream, hail was too threatening to ignore, and Arctozolt's coverage was too insane
@@foofootoo I can add in addition to that statement. Arctozolt unlike the other pokemon on the banslate you mentioned was available to us in NU directly at Crown Tundra thanks to the ability patch. We couldn't have really banned it right away despite knowing well enough that it was broken. It's standard to wait if we know a big wave of tier changes are about to hit us anyways in a near future. Thus for that time Piloswine climbed to massive usage to check a near singular obvious broken threat.
Even after the ban, you explained it quite well, we had other options like Arctovish. Initially, you didn't add this aspect to it. Arctovish itself has Aurora Veil, and this tied into why we banned Aurora Veil. The last gen way of using Aurora Veil involved setting hail with a setter, potentially sacking the setter, and than going to a weather abuser with Auroa Veil (Sandslash-alola, but now in this gen also Arctovish) and maintaining offensive pressure to assure Veil. This gen we gained Vish to do that, but also weather setters with Aurora Veil in Aurorus/Abomasnow creating variety in Stealth Rocks or outs to Fat water pokemon respectively while setting Hail.
This combo was so oppressive that the sole answer to this set up was Vaporeon as Vish needed Life Orb Freeze Dry with investment to 2HKO that, which ment you couldn't run Light Clay either. And for just 2 team slots you had a solid opening, screen support without loss of momentum, and potentially Stealth Rocks and set up in someones face with up to 4 set up pokemon making even Turtonator a valid threat. Even with the at-the-time limited list of set up pokemon we had concerns to follow up with bans on Veil at some point. Though these concerns are split from the time stamps of Arctozolts oppressive introductions as they lingered during that instead.
Then you realize it can learn surf …
Wait Piloswine? Not Mamoswine? Is it because of Eviolite?
@@elmago2808
I was talking about NU.
Arctozolt and Piloswine were allowed in NU.
Mamoswine wasn't. Because it belongs in UU
The one mon I could think of was Quagsire, it did not care what tier it went to at all, it’d just pop up and somehow be viable lol
Very true, that Pokémon is weirdly viable in a ton of tiers
@@foofootoo QUAGSIRE MAKING ZACIAN CRY
I remember when False Swipe Gaming covered Quagsire. They didn't even know what to make of it. Viable, but not too viable everywhere but Little Cup, and for that you could use Wooper.
It has the second best defensive typing, an amazing ability that stops setup sweepers, and a recovery move. That’s all it needs to find a niche in literally any tier at any given time.
Quagsire is the one Pokemon that just ignores the tiering system becuase of how epic it is. One day it's a PU mon, the next day it's in Ubers.
*Arctozolt about to drop to PU*
Arctozolt: I’m gonna do what’s called a pro gamer move.
Lol
Arcozolt in Gen 8 going on the rollercoaster
Arctozolt going from NU to PU to RU to PU and then finally UUBL be like: “Parkour!”
😆
What does nu pu ru uubl mean?
@@EliteDiamond. NU is NeverUsed, which is a tier for Pokémon with pretty low usage. PU is a tier lower than it, and it supposedly means "pee-yeew", as in "Pokémon that really stink in competitive play". RU is RarelyUsed, which is Pokémon that, by usage, are, well, rarely used. Finally, UUBL is UnderUsed Ban List, Pokémon not allowed in UnderUsed.
@@EliteDiamond. To add on to what the above reply said, the tiers in descending order are:
- Anything Goes/AG: A tier that exists solely because of Mega Rayquaza. It means there are no restrictions on anything whatsoever.
- Ubers: The ultimate ban tier before Anything Goes. Most if not all of the Pokémon here could singlehandedly dominate any lower tier, requiring them to be put up here with their fellow abominations of strength.
- OverUsed/OU: The primary competitive tier, with plenty of variety in its roster and a healthy metagame... most of the time.
- UnderUsed/UU: Pokémon in this tier are *decent,* but unable to properly thrive in OU.
- RarelyUsed/RU: To my knowledge, this tier didn't always exist, but after later generations added so many Pokémon of varying power levels that there was now a clear gap between UU and NU, RU was created to fill that void.
- NeverUsed/NU: Until Gen 6, the absolute lowest tier to have an actual metagame. Pokémon in this tier, save for a few niche cases, would be ground to dust in OU.
- PU: Like the previous reply said, PU isn't an acronym, it's just a joke about how everything in this tier stinks. Created in Gen 6 after Mega Evolution, Fairy-types, and other sources of powercreep caused formerly decent mons to drop to NU, so the mons that were already in NU and some Untiered mons got sent to a new bottom tier.
- Untiered/ZU: If a Pokémon is absolutely unusable, not even having any advantageous niches it can exploit in a Singles format, this is where it ends up. There is no Untiered metagame, though the introduction of PU allowed a few lucky mons to escape this realm of obscurity.
- Little Cup: If a mon is Untiered-level trash solely on account of being the first stage in an evolutionary line, it winds up here, in a metagame surrounded by other first-stagers. Some first-stage mons can still be so powerful they get banned to one of the big boy tiers.
- BL (either BanList or BorderLine depending on who you ask): I don't know if every tier has its own BL or if that's only a UU thing, hence why I separated it from the rest of the tiers. A Pokémon in BL is both too good for the tier it's been banned from, and unable to achieve viability in the next tier up, leaving it in a sort of limbo. Remember that void I mentioned RU being created to fill? This is that void.
@@Leet-iz2fz this is genuinely an extremely good overview of smogon tiers
It's impressive and cool (pun intended) to see a Pokémon being banned from 3 different tiers on the same generation. The only similar case from another generation I can think of right now is Venomoth in Generation 6, which was banned twice during that generation.
It was first banned from UU while being NU by usage back when Baton Pass was allowed and then, when BP was banned, it was banned from RU because of the sheer power of Quiver Dance + Tinted Lens.
Edit: fixed some errors and added some things
That's a really good comparison! Venomoth is a very interesting Pokemon.
Credit to the slow dino slowly creeping a chill into the competitive scene. That is what I think makes Pokémon as a game series keep its strength: an ever changing meta nearly balanced to what people decide to do. Even if I'm very anti-smogon I cannot help but laugh at the prospect that this thing single-handedly caused a new weather balance check for tiers under its second highest rating. To think I too was sleeping on Arctozolt's incredible viability.
Yeah I find it so interesting! I don't play all the smogon tiers, but I like reading up which random Pokémon is having a surge in usage in any tier!
@@foofootoo Absolutely, they are monsters after all, got to catch them all. Not just that, ever since Gen 2 the level of customization has been near limitless making some able to completely counter a steamrolling sweeper (without hazards). Like Sudowoodo as much shit as some will give it for its speed, has the greatest potential to catch people off guard with Counter, Wood Hammer, especially in a trick room. Or you could Power Trick Baton Pass via Gliscor or Gligar in Gen 7 (not 8 since it isn't there). Something to look into along with maybe the move Gravity. For real, Gravity would guarantee a move never misses by adding 30 in accuracy for all on the field while revoking flying and levitation Pokémon since Telekinesis was removed for Sword and Shield. So many moves, so little time to explore fully.
Having stopped playing competitive after isle of armor I was shocked to see this video. I remember trying to make Zolt work on trick room and webs teams and thought this is almost there. Love that it finally got there with slush rush
The problem with using it in Trick Room teams seems mainly that Trick Room works best in doubles, and Arctozolt just doesn't combo well with Trick Room setters like Indeedee and Dusclops. At best, you'd sweep with Hatterene and have Arctozolt as a backup.
Many Pokémon love BoltBeam. Arctozolt IS BoltBeam.
More like beakzard
They all laughed at me for using this mon before the ban. Who’s laughing now smogon?!
I because that mon still look stupid as hell
But that's the point
I allways hate it when a niche role in a higher tier rips away a pokemon from a lower tier where it's honestly doing fine.
It's a fundamental problem of using usage as a tier decider and a bansystem that not only prevents usage in the tier it's banned from but also everything below it.
I haven't played pokemon showdown in years now, but when i still did I allways felt like usage was a great argument to put a pokemon in a tier lower, but a poor argument to move that pokemon back up through the tiers.
Like i remember amoonguss being RU for the longest time and then at one point amoonguss rose in popularity in OU which then ripped it away from it's home in RU and even UU where it saw barely any play.
Yeah it's usually bulky Pokemon that happens too, stuff like Quagsire or Mandibuzz can be in NU/PU, then rocket to OU when they're used as a check to one specific Pokemon. It does seem strange...
I mean, you need to use something to separate the tiers.
@@natnew32 I think voting is a better way then usage to move mons back up a tier.
High usage in a tier above doesn't allways mean broken in current tier.
it's like FooFoo said, it happens alot to bulky mons (mandibuzz, amoonguss, ... ) who suddenly spike in popularity in higher tiers because they find a specific niche for that pokemon (otherwise why did it go down in the first place)
In a similar fashion I do not think slush rush should have been banned. the fossils are the offenders, but don't come tell me that slush rush beartic is the pinnacle of overpowered in RU. It's the combination of slush rush + bolt beak/fishious rend that was broken.
Now, I understand why they ban the way they do. It's easier to do a simple ban, it's less complicated coding, complexity doesn't allways improve gameplay, etc.
However, in certain cases a complex ban should be prefered IMO.
If Arctozolt was UU to begin with, then I wouldn't be opposed to a simple ban. You'd only be affecting 1 tier at that point so a simple ban would do the trick and remove the problem from the tier it's currently in.
What I don't like is that now a tier higher up the list has a problem because of a niche situation, a niche that isn't present in the lower tiers due to certain restrictions more justifiable as it had multiple offenders. In this case I strongly believe a complex ban is more preferable as it is not 1 single thing that makes arctozolt too strong, but instead a combination of factors.
In UU you could have banned multiple pieces of the puzzle and achieved the same thing:
No arctozolt + bolt beak
No arctozolt + slush rush
No Arctozolt + Snow Warning user in same team
They all would have had the same effect as banning Arctozolt from UU but with the benefit of allowing Arctozolt in the lower tiers. Out of the 3 it is obvious that arctozolt + slush rush is the best complex ban as smogon allready banned slush rush in all tiers lower, therefor that's the one that if you would do complex bans, you should go with.
But in the end, I'm not the one in charge, so all I feel is a sense of missed opportunity and sadness for the lower tiers who lose a fun toy for something out of their control.
@@DJarr216 The thing is, if you use usage rating for moving down but not up, it can become completely arbitrary whether or not a pokemon exists in a tier. What if a pokemon in a higher tier would be fine in a lower tier, however their usage in the higher tier prevents them from dropping? Well they can't drop, can they?
This is exactly the same situation as Arctozolt, the only difference is that the pokemon hasn't been in the lower tier before this time. And yet the result isn't the same. Why? Why do pokemon suggenly get grandfathered into tiers that their usage DOES NOT imply they should get into? Other pokemon don't get the same treatment.
Also, "UnderUsed" refers to pokemon that aren't used as much (in the tier above), so why is a pokemon that does get used frequently in the tier above allowed to stay? It goes against the tiering philosophy.
@@natnew32 You don't get my point, honestly. Usage is a good measurement to determine relative individual strenght. If it is too weak, it doesnt see usage, therefor it drops. Pokemon who get banned are deemed to be too strong. Now say usage in RU rises again for a pokemon but the NU counsil does not think a ban is warranted. That means that the community as a whole doesnt think said pokemon is too strong therefor there is reason to keep it down.
Yout argument about a pokemon with enough usage to prevent dropping maybe being weak enough is valid BUT if you do it for one you have to do it for all which means endless testing. The tiering system works best from the top down, rather then the bottom up. You could argue that overused is a poorly chosen name as is could lead you to think the opposite is true. It is too good, therefor it is overused.
Pokemon with a niche role in higher tiers are what i would call the equivalent of tech cards in card games. If you look at their statistics you see something interesting. In matchups where there effect is usefull they overpreform compared to their average matchup. In this case arctozolt in an environment where snow warning and slush rush are both allowed it overperformes which is what warranted the ban. Take away the perfect combo and its usage crumbles. Evidence that without the perfect environment it is weak.
Now if you look at combo decks in card games, you will sometimes see a combo that is too good to keep existing. If you then ask the playerbase which part of the combo is the problem then you allmost never get a unanymous answer. And what happened? RU said that snow warning was the problem. That wasn't the awnser cuz suddenly slush rush is the problem. Then the problem extents to UU and they then decide that is in fact arctozolt itself who is the problem. But we know artozolt sucks if you take away the thing that makes it broken. So then why ban arctozolt as a whole? It's the equivalent of using a nuclear missile to kill a fly.
I'll put it this way. I want to pat and protect all of the fossils. I'm definitely moved by Arctozolt's journey... buuuuuut, for some reason Mr. Fish (Dracovish) just resonates with me so much more, so despite this incredible rocky adventure, I can't help but still favour other fossils over this brave little warrior
That's fair, they all have such character!
@@foofootoo while there are some other fossil mons I really like, I have to say that the galar ones are pretty unique... sad, but definitely stand out in both design and "feel" to them ^^
You can't get any better than, a pokemon that is an affront to god eventually having to be sent up to their tier
Arctozolt: *Gets banned from a higher tier while being in a lower tier*
Venomoth: "You too huh?"
Arctozolt is so cute honestly, but it's so sad shivering like that
I think Barraskewda would be an interesting mon to analyze. From what I remember it went from OU, to RU, to UU, and back to OU similar to arctozolt.
I believe it’s because Rain is banned in lower tiers. Barraskewda isn’t very good without it.
@@user-kk8cj8pg1u barraskewda is still very good without rain
It keeps shifting tiers because it is the premier rain sweeper
@@Haroldino If weather got banned Barra would stay in RU. He’s not very good without rain. Too frail.
The change I suggested for the "Slow Start" ability to allow it to set up a temporary trick room (3-5 turns) upon entry, would also resolve the issue w/ Arctozolt's signature move (Bolt Break). Wouldn't that be a quick fix to a formerly "hindering" ability? And it'd be useful for slower partners like Arctozolt, during double battles. 🤷🏾♂️
Why do people keep trying to think of "ways to buff Slow Start"? Like? Do y'all not comprehend Regigigas' lore or something? Slow Start is because it's taking a while to take up after being you know a slumbering giant for thousands of years, you're gonna take a while to get up after that
Like yeah Gigas sucks because of his ability but that's literally the whole point. He's not SUPPOSED to be good. He'/s a loremon, not a fighting one
@@SnoFitzroy I think you might have a "slow start" mentally. My suggestion is to "you know" make Regigigas's temporary "slow start" advantageous. Being slower would benefit Regi, because of the physics of "trick room" (where slower Pokemon have priority). Activating a temporary trick room upon entry is a unique addition to an ability which also temporarily cuts the user's stats.
WTF are you even talking about "Loremon"? You do realize that Pokemon can have lore, & not "suck", right? And you're acting as if they haven't been improving upon Pokemon to make them better (& competitively more viable).
And, the pre-existing Pokemon already has its lore, design, moves, fan-base, etc. , so it makes far more business sense to improve upon it, than to completely create a new one.
Arctozolt is my favourite gen 8 fossil. I loved the way it looked and wasn't overused like dracovish due to obvious reasons. Ice typing is one of my favourite types in general.
Since were talking about weather wars, here’s a concept
Exeggutor chlorophyll Max speed skill swap
Groudon max speed Choice band or scarf using precipice Blades and irruption
Groudon set up Ken outspeed eleki
Exeggutor is the only Pokémon with skill swap and chlorophyll together
That sounds very fun!
If opposing weather setters are interfering
Not sure if this will work
Groudon holding lagging tail
Fast prankster user holding selected item using Switcheroo or trick
@@erics802 Actually that would do good against opposing weather. When you swap drought to the other pokemon it activates and makes it sunny again, so it would reset the turn you swap
i think this is super interesting, as someone who only plays cartridge formats, hearing the rumblings of arctozolt’s uu ban was really wild.
for what it’s worth, i think arctozolt struggles in vgc because of regieleki more than anything, the draco versions both outspeed eleki where as the arcto’s don’t, and having boosted speed only to still be outsped is quite a detriment. it also doesn’t help vgc is dominated by sun.
I had this thing in a draft once alongside Ninetales-A, I went undefeated in main season just because how good that team was.
Hail is so underrated in the draft format
Yes I love the volt switch ability to block opponents' volt switch
Another great video Fo!! I’ve always liked Arctozolt the most when it comes to design so I’m happy it performed well in competitive
Thanks! Yeah, Ice/Electric is such a cool concept too
I know Mr fish was pretty strong, but I didn't realize his chubby cousin was op too
Durant is another Pokémon that’s been banned everywhere, it seems like. It’s been banned at least 3 times, maybe 4 times just this generation
The galar fossils look like they're in everlasting pain as half their bodies aren't theirs
Arctozolt reminds me of all those trick room only mons and other weather sweepers that are actually used in way higher tiers but end up in PU because their use case is just not a very commonly played archetype. It's pretty funny how frozen Woodstock over here got banned 3 times though.
It also makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside because I unironically love this guy. Its design always makes me smile.
"frozen woodstock" LMLAO
That is actually one of the best videos I ever seen about competitive scene of pokemon. Thank you
Thanks for the comment!
I'm glad that my favorite galar Pokemon has such a unique competitive history
As someone who uses Arctozolt on the regular, this pokemon’s kinda nutty and I love it.
I love all the Gen 8 fossils tho
G-Max Machamp being banned until the 3rd (season?) despite not being the strongest G-Max form be like: Haha, I good
*Arctozolt is now banned from three tiers*
Actozolt:. ...and I took that personally
Always great to see slept on mons end up being meta. The best thing about arctozolt is that it isn't meant for just dedicated hail teams.. you can run it on HO teams with ninetails for screens. You lose 3 turns of hail, but when you're switching in and out and most HO mons only stay for a kill and switch out it really doesn't matter. Ice/electric are dummy good STABs too. Dracozolt can't kill anything because it lacks the coverage arctozolt has. It also can't run mixed sets because it sacrifices its already mediocre kill power. Arctozolt can get away with it because whatever it hits with not bolt beak is taking super effective damage.
I'm just theorycrafting because it's been rattling around my head. Maybe this isn't all that great but it's an idea nonetheless.
Maybe it could be somewhat useful on trick room teams since it has naturally lower speed? Run a Brave nature and have it switch into a neutral move to let it run wild possibly? Idk maybe I'm just capping XD
It's a reasonable idea! They would have to have a Brave nature, and there still might be some Pokemon that would be natural slower, but it could be worth testing
Seems dope! Test it :)
@@emilysmith2965 Sure thing! I'll give it a test run later tonight.
I was not aware of the viability of Arctozolt(and technically Arctovish) or the journey it endured through the Smogon tiers.
Looks like all 4 of the Galar fossil Pokémon were worth using on an in-game team, rather than Dracozolt and primarily Dracovish.
I hope someday we can get their real forms vs these Frankenstein fossils. I still like them but I want to see the true forms.
This reminds me of Mienshao's tier-hopping exploits. You should cover that too sometime.
My favorite pokemon Ed...ward...
I subbed because you named your Arctozolt “Thawful” and that’s hilarious
Arctovish with a slush rush, choice band Fishous Rend is so consistently breaking its insane, very few mons could genuinely hold out over switching in and taking yet another rend, such as Milotic
the problem is that they don't need to switch, they can just stay in and destroy the poor thing
“Local abomination against god too powerful to contain. More at 11.”
>"can't think of any other mon that has been banned 3 times in 1 generation"
...I mean. Deoxys. Technically 4 or 5 times, iirc
One gen it was defense from UU and OU, speed from OU, attack from OU, normal from OU. So 5.
Ice/electric is a very volatile STAB combination, it's extremely powerful offensively, but defensively, it's awful. But if you move first, like arctozolt kinda needs to, it can be insane.
The Virgin Dracovish
V.S.
The Chad Arctozolt
id like to say its very interesting that you didnt mention dracovish once, just showing how it doesn’t need any explaining how insane that mon is LOL
Talk about a Snotty Kid glow-up.
😆
This mon is a testament to the sheer power of Ice and Electric coverage honestly. And Freeze-Dry even stops Rotom-Wash from being able to resist it.
getting banned from UU over a specific niche despite it being obstensibly a low tier, and thus being abruptly ejected from everywhere else where it was doing nothing wrong, is why I don't respect smogon tiering.
Specific niche: Beating over 90% of the pokemon while under hail. Doesn't seem too specific to me.
It is a specific niche because not many Slush Rush Pokémon can do that. And it specifically is a Slush Rush Pokémon because any other Hail-dependent ability is useless. You have Alolan Sandslash and Arctozolt. By typing alone, Alolan Sandslash is out because Fire attacks, Ground attacks, and Fighting attacks are common everywhere. Furthermore, Ice/Steel is not a potent offensive combo which is what you need to do good as an Ice type, or otherwise be fast. Also, Alolan Sandslash has to set up to be good, while under hail Arctozolt is fast and hits hard, requirements for a good Ice type barring Froslass (and it too hits hard). There is no reason to not use Arctozolt as your Slush Rush sweeper in OU, and there is no reason to use anything else.
@@iantaakalla8180 I mean, there is A reason to use alolaslash, namely, its speed and movepool are much better than arctozolt, letting it outspeed zeraora, scarf lando, scarf blacephalon, scarf kartana, and its steel coverage lets it ohko physdef clef, now, these benefits don't outweigh the downsides, namely, losing to corviknight, but they do exist.
Funny how hustle, bolt beak, max speed, and max attack works with choice band on a dracozolt, I have wiped so many teams with that setup
Pokémon Showdown btw
It's nice to see how your channel is sky rocketing
Nearly ZU while also OU...that's just...wow.
It's a pretty unique case!
I can’t get over the fact of how weak, non exclusive physical electric moves are. Wild Charge is basically a physical thunderbolt with recoil, while Aura wheel is 110BP with 100% accuracy and raises speed.
Glaceon is still my go to ice pokemon but I do like the fact they made more viable options
Welp just found my next hunt.
Funny thing is, I was working with this pokemon, knowing it's viability before I looked at how it was doing in smogon's list. Arctozolt was just one of my favorite pokemon, combined with alolan ninetales being another favorite. I always was looking for ways to play hail teams and arctozolt, my favorite sneeze dragon was always my favorite fossil since I first laid eyes on it.
I am a huge fan of the gen 8 fossils. I love all of them so much like, omg, they may be 4 of my favourite pokemons ever made. I LOVE them so much!!!
A sullen bird watches from the UUBL sidelines, silently nodding in approval as Arctozolt still makes it big in OU after getting banned from UU.
“Fly free, little one. Fly free.”
Galar zapdos is likely to rise up to OU in this tier shift. It's getting similar usage to bisharp to deter defog.
@@SPZ-gv2on Wait what? I was thinking of Staraptor
@@ThisIsntAUA-camr Oh lol. Staraptor had its place taken by galarian zapdos this generation as the close combating UUBL bird. Never realized that until just now.
“With it’s 55 base speed stat, it’s rare that you’ll ever outspeed the opponent.”
Meanwhile, me using my usual competitive trick room team but including Arctozolt
When you have that rare Aurorus/Arctozolt pairing but the Arctozolt does not have Slush Rush
7:08 Lax: “EVERYTHING MUST BE BANNED”
True chads love Arctozolt
Still, I'd like the odd fossils would stop existing from here on. I'd like some normal non demon monsters
I love using Dracozolt with the ability volt switch to be immune to volt switch
I hate sword and shield fossils..they look like they want to die from the suffering of its own existence.
Wait for FSG video about this in the next six years, it'll be a fun ride.
still wierd how snow warning gets banned but any other weather is fine
smogon is wierd
I don't think Drizzle can't be used in NU because Pelipper is in OU and Politoed is in RU. But Drought is available. It just shows how powerful hail has become this generation!
@@foofootoo but isn't drought better than hail pretty much? Why won't they ban that lol
@@greenuvlight "Better" is extremely contextual. There are strong differences in the payoffs between the tiers, so even if there's a strong weather setter, if there aren't enough Pokemon that can take good advantage of it in the tier, then the weather setter isn't actually terribly good in the meta.
@@redblue200 good point
@@greenuvlight drought is banned
Neat analysis! Thanks for uploading!
No problem!
0:52 Lanturn with volt absorb also resist the ice/electric combination
Arctozolt can use freeze dry so it hits water types.
if an omnipotent being is tasked with pokemon tiers and they made the perfect tierlist, i wonder how often youd see a mon in like, balanced and allowed in both NU and OU but banned from UU, for example. It’d be so interesting to see
I always thought it was banned for looking like it was made from leftovers.
lol
Arctozolt and Arctovish could make for pretty decent trick room sweepers.
55 base seems way to high for trick room, is in the cursed tier (Too slow normally and too fast in Trick Room)
It's the Arctozolt at 8:05 called "Body-ody-ody" for me 🥴😩🤤
Wait, I don't completely understand smogon tiers, but let me get this straight. Arctozolt was too strong in the mid tiers with Slush Rush, so they banned Snow Warning, keeping Zolt in the tier but making it less auto-destruction. Zolt fell down to lower tiers without hail support, where it kinda had a niche for players who wanted to make it work. At the same time, Slush Rush Zolt and A-Ninetales are tearing up UU so bad that Zolt gets banned? And since it's UUBL now, slow non-hail Zolt can't get used in the low tiers? I kinda understand the sentiment against complex bans, {No Slush Rush Arctozolt with a Snow Warning user} is a lot more complicated, especially as they add up in a tier. But I wish Volt Absorb Zolt could still be a low tier trick room threat. Hopefully Zolt gets to kill a lot of Landos in OU in the meantime
Yeah it's a very strange situation! It is frustrating when one thing is making a Pokémon too strong, and banning that move or ability on that Pokémon would allow it to be used in lower tiers. But it's just smogon's approach since things could get very complicated very quickly if each Pokémon had a list of moves that were banned in lower tiers
It just seems like a terrible approach to me. "One or two mons are overperforming so we'll kill hail teams entirely" is such a bad option. It's one thing to ban evasion moves, entirely another to axe hail
I got an ad for the OLED Switch before the video.
They actually made the fossils good for once
In lower tiers, Omastar and Kabutops can function nicely. In stall teams, Cradily can put in lots of work. The rest suck in whatever tier they land in.
(And I do mean wherever they land in: Aurorus, for example, always gets a few weeks of being good before it sinking in usage due to it being physically frail to two types known for its physical moves. In this generation alone, it basically proved set-up strats were so overpowering in NU that they took away its only niche.)
My boy finally gets recognized
It’s Kind of sad that the worst weather out of the 4 is the one which has it’s weather ability pokemon all having 4x weaknesses
In conclusion; buff hail/the ice type
Hail is quite dominant in OU and in UU (before Arcto ban) I have to remind you that even got BANNED in NU
Hail isn’t good: the Aurora Veil is and there were many setup sweepers. Hail has Blizzard but it is not widely distributed. Hail also has a useless Special Defense buff. Hail was just a convenient way to get screens up. Hail isn’t good like Drought/Drizzle/Sand Stream is. It’s only good indirectly because many Pokémon can use the instant screen that isn’t disjoint like Reflect and Light Screen setters are.
The other three weathers have Pokémon that have weather-dependent abilities that can make maximum usage of those abilities. With hail, you only have Arctozolt and Vanilluxe: the other Slush Rush Pokémon requires too much and every other Hail-dependent ability sucks because weather isn’t permanent, the ability didn’t do much, or is banned for raising evasiveness. It was the setup sweepers that got Hail as a playstyle removed from NU.
If anything, the bevy of Pokémon that can setup make Hail overpowering. Hail alone sucks, and Hail using Pokémon generally suck. Heck, half of the Hail setters suck, and Abomasnow was only useful because it was the only one before power creep of Gen 6. It is not Hail that is strong; in general it is the setup sweeping strategy that is strong and conjoined screen setup helps that immensely. Even Arctozolt doesn’t buck that trend but is noticeable because you just place Arctozolt in hail and he’s ready, but Arctozolt in hail is the setup so the setup is instantaneous as switching.
Finally, Vanilluxe is a mono-Ice Hail Pokémon so it has no x4 weaknesses.
2:16 ah yes, my favorite ability, volt switch.
Quagsire is a contender for wildest ride tbh. My guy went to Ubers as much as he went into PU
not comparable, Quagsire just had a niche up there just like Zarude rn.
@@firezera Yeah. And so did Arctozolt on Hail teams in OU. They both did good in every tier they were in and could bounce between all of them. I fail to see the difference
@@kookio4284 Arcto's situation is not a niche, it is not there for countering Landorus-T or anything, it is in UUBL because it's a viable mon in OU. Unlike Quagsire, whose main purpose was to stop Zacian-C from sweeping a whole team, or Zarude; which the main objective is countering both Groudon and Kyogre.
I always thought that the fossil Pokémon were underrated but the latest generation really changed it, also glad that they dropped the "must be rock type cause fossil" concept, great video bro 😁❤
Rock is like Ice (too many weakness) but the STAB Rock is quite bad (mainly due to low accuracy) compared to STAB Ice
You always love to see underdog pokemon like this and venomoth. Very awesome video
The Volt Switch ability?
i always used arctozolt i did alot of the first arctozolt sets . when it didn't have slush rush i often tried to make it as bulky as possible and it worked well in pre dlc ubers due to the lack of pokemon in the meta . i sometimes suprise people with this sets .
Even though I'll probably NEVER do competitive pokemon seeing these interesting uses and dynamics for pokemon I wouldn't think twice about removing from my team makes me really wanna try some of them out. But then that brings me to given I only really play pokemon's single player campaign it dossn't reward good setups like that as much as I'd like for it to.
Nothing New for me, I main hail teams in S&S, and he is allways the star in everygame
If you like hail, this shivering weirdo is your friend 😁
@@foofootoo he is definetly the reason why I felt in love with hail
Gastrodon always makes the PU to OU or even Ubers trek and then back again quite often
As a day one Arctozolt stan this video makes me so happy
Rotom frost *Deluxe*
Upgraded to the smart fridge version lol
@@foofootoo Simsong smert frudge
Choice scarf and EV speed training is honestly the best way to try boost its chances... Slush rush or this is the best choices honestly. Add it's moveset and it's mad!
No wonder it was banned!
This guy is the poster definition of fair and balanced lmao
Very wacky mon
I just find it funny how a tail thing is able to beat everything
With unnatural design comes unnatural power!
Although slower people don’t realise Arctozolt has a higher base attack so not surprised
It’s also Ice type. Ice types, for good reason, are discounted barring Alolan Ninetales, Galarian Darmanitan, Weavile, Froslass, Mamoswine, Vanilluxe, Walrein before Gen 6, Kyurem in Gen 8, Piloswine, Sneasel in lower tiers, and Cloyster.
The rest tend to suck.
Prime example of Smogon users being crybabies. Meanwhile I'm at 10,187 restores and counting for my shiny one...
The shiny is so awkward 😁 no breeding is kinda frustrating
Cara Liss is the true villain of SwSh
So, out of curiousity, I'm thinking about using Arctozolt in a Trick Room team instead of snow. In theory, it should work, no? His coverage seems good for the team and it provides an option for a physical glass cannon.
"and today I wanna talk to you about one of the coolest-"
Woah imma have to stop ya right there bud
Barraskweda despite never getting banned on a tier also had been jumping and dropping across all tiers during the whole SS generation
this is my favorite Pokémon for free. I even made a showdown video of Arctozolt. Bolt Beak is cool.
I want there to be a tier where nothing is banned ever (except glitched in pokemon obviously) like go ahead use whatever you want, whenever you want. I wanna see what happens. Idk much about pokemon competitive so maybe this exists already (if so PLEASE let me know where i can find the wackiest shit from there)
There is, it's called "Anything Goes". The only rule is that you can't intentionally force a battle to continue forever. I'm not sure how active or serious it is, though.
Uhh, AG?
@@brocksteele7475 It's not very serious because it's incredibly luck dependant. Things like compound eyes sleep powder butterfree can just cheese your whole team or you can just lose to 3 kyogres because one is scarf and one is specs and you can't tell. OHKO moves are cheap but occasionally effective and moody can steal games. Full baton pass is impossible to stop without specific counterplay and trapping abilities force kills or win for free often. It's fun but a complete mess.
Would you believe me I put chose scarf on my acrtazorl without knowing this
I think that they purpousely made it easyer to get each op fossil deppending on if you got sword or shield