Bullet points: - "There is a fine line between piety and pietism." - "When we are finding our assurance and our right standing before God BASED UPON our performance, that is pietism... I need to know that I'm good, that I'm not a false convert, that I'm not a lazy convert...etc. We begin to focus in on what WE can do to affirm our assurance." - "Pietism puts the emphasis on what we are doing for God, i.e., I am doing these things for God therefore I am a Christian.." ... instead of looking only to Christ's finished work. Do vs Done. It is finished.
Thank you so much for your messages. They are an absolute blessing in the midst of all the “you must or else” messages which cause me a feeling of defeat and hopelessness. You have really helped me understand the loving kindness of Jesus. Thank you for following Jesus and spreading the actual “Good news!” May God bless you all and your families. 🙏🏻✝️🙌🏻
The video “Lutheran Pietism” by Ryan Reeves actually defines pietism. This video deals with the errors of pietism from its effects/conclusions, but does not sufficiently define it, and it’s impact in Christianity and the world today.
They literally describe it as looking at what you’re doing to figure out if you’re saved. Or describing faith as faithfulness Or as working. It’s soooo confusing.
Praise the Lord All glory to God Im greatful for his Grace precious blood sacrifice for me n promises for family my sins were great but His Love was greater ⚔️🧎❤️🥹🙌 Im thankful for this sermon God bless TheoCast brothers 🙏❤️
Sweet gospel truth. My favorite Spurgeon quote is addressing pietism. "...How frequently you who are coming to Christ look to yourselves. "O!" you say, "I do not repent enough." That is looking to yourself. "I do not believe enough." That is looking to yourself. "I am too unworthy." That is looking to yourself. "I cannot discover," says another, "that I have any righteousness." It is quite right to say that you have not any righteousness; but it is quite wrong to look for any. It is, "Look unto me." God will have you turn your eye off yourself and look unto him. The hardest thing in the world is to turn a man's eye off himself; as long as he lives, he always has a predilection to turn his eyes inside, and look at himself; whereas God says, "Look unto me." From the cross of Calvary, where the bleeding hands of Jesus drop mercy; from the Garden of Gethsemane, where the bleeding pores of the Saviour sweat pardons, the cry comes, "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth." From Calvary's summit, where Jesus cries, "It is finished," I hear a shout, "Look, and be saved." But there comes a vile cry from our soul, "Nay, look to yourself! look to yourself!" Ah, my hearer, look to yourself, and you will be damned. That certainly will come of it. As long as you look to yourself there is no hope for you. It is not a consideration of what you are, but a consideration of what God is, and what Christ is, that can save you. It is looking from yourself to Jesus. P! there be men that quite misunderstand the gospel; they think that righteousness qualifies them to come to Christ; whereas sin is the only qualification for a man to come to Jesus." Sovereignty and Salvation Charles Haddon Spurgeon January 6, 1856
So it's not piety and pietism the same thing since the other one is trying to reflect the love of Christ whilst the other one is trying to be very sure to be godly am really loving it thank God 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thank you for producing this video this helps me understand the difference. Where does the Great commission fall into this, we are called to make disciples. Would you consider that piety or pietism
I believe you're addressing an imbalance with another imbalance. There are many passages which emphasize that if God has saved us, it will be evidenced by our godliness. One can push that to a morbidly introspective extreme but that does not justify letting the pendulum swing the other way. You referenced a few verses and argued they are all speaking of our acceptance of the gospel. But Paul's warning to examine oneself in 2 Corinthians 13 is preceded by many arguments that warn people who practice certain things cannot be assured of their salvation. I'm not at all sure how you read 2 Peter 1:10's command to confirm your calling and election as not having to do with the character qualities listed in the context. He points right back to them in the following prepositional phrase. What do you even do with the arguments in 1 John or Matthew 7 or Psalm 15 or the whole of Proverbs? This is an invitation to genuine conversation.
Over the years, I feel like I’ve seen this attitude of pietism in certain friends, usually from the Calvinist/reformed side… probably because wanting to assure their salvation (perseverance of the saints). For a long time I’ve questioned why this is, thinking that Calvinists of all Christians should feel humbled in being “elect” when others aren’t. I think for a while I would have considered myself a Calvinist too, but today I don’t think I do. I don’t hold to all 5 points of TULIP (which I know the whole systematic seems to falls apart if one of the components is removed). I think Christ’s atonement was for all humanity, but not all humanity is saved because of our free will to accept or reject Jesus’s gift of salvation. God uses our free will to accomplish His will…. It’s something I’ve had to think long and hard about. But, anyway, I understand now what has turned me off from certain Christians and not others. It’s this concept of pietism. Maybe Calvinism is more “conducive” to this malpractice or the Christian life, but I think any Christian can fall into it. After all, Arminians (which I don’t consider myself to be) have the fear of the loss/abandonment of their salvation. That could also lead to this practice of pietism (e.g. Pentecostal holiness movement). Theocast, in your video, you come across as very gracious, and it’s a reminder for me that neither “camp” is monolithic. Also, that there are some in the Reformed community who still understand the meaning of “It is finished” and recognize the difference between piety and pietism. Great video! 😊
To clarify (which is how I hope that statement towards the end about feeling right with God was intended, based on other things I've heard from Theocast), we are only right with God because of the finished work of Jesus, not even because of what God is doing in us. This is the sole basis of our assurance as well. However, His work in us could be seen as supporting/secondary evidence (though not necessary for assurance and having nothing to do with our actual right standing before God).
I like this from Calvin's commentary on 1 John 3:14: "The argument would be more plausible [instead of saying that we obtain life by love, which he had already debunked], were it said that love makes us more certain of life [but still false as he will show]: then confidence as to salvation would recumb on works. But the answer to this is obvious; for though faith is confirmed by all the graces of God as aids, yet it ceases not to have its foundation in the mercy of God only. As for instance, when we enjoy the light, we are certain that the sun shines; if the sun shines on the place in which we are, we have a clearer view of it; but yet when the visible rays do not come to us, we are satisfied that the sun diffuses its brightness for our benefit. So when faith is founded on Christ, some things may happen to assist it, still it rests on Christ's grace alone."
I guess Theocast takes a different view than John Owen. See "Gospel Grounds and Evidences of the Faith of God's Elect" by him. Also, Theocast takes a different stance than the confession on their interpretation of 2 Peter 1. "The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election" followed by a footnote quoting the 2 Peter 1 passage.
Some good points here, and some I'm a little unsure of. On pietism, is this a standard definition? I can see how it can be a helpful label to apply to the tendencies you isolate, but I'm unsure, for example, how this definition relates to the historical movement known as pietism. Others seem to use it of the tendency to separate secular and sacred, emphasising what is held to be 'sacred' at the expense of obedience to Christ in every sphere of life.
Why do they always say “give your life to Christ” or surrender/submit your life to Christ” in order to be saved instead of just put your faith in Christ?
@@THEOCAST that will be great! I’m looking forward to it. This topic caused me so much mental turmoil that I can’t even explain. I was extremely frustrated and confused.
Heres the odd thing of this vid: I agree 100% with what you said, but you re giving Pietism another definition, instead of the movement that took place on Europe. Maybe you re addressing legalism, which are almost 100% praticized by people orphaned on their minds of the inclusive and adoptive salvation Christ bestowed us on that cross, and for that, they try to fill their acceptance with works.
Well that was a bit disappointed - I found this to be a strawman of what pietism is and I actually wanted to learn what pietism is and not why it’s bad.
Jon, I have had this conversation with others in the past week about does God get "disappointed" with us when we commit certain sins as a believer? or is God "pleased" with us when we do certain acts as a believer. Nothing effects our salvation but does God become pleased or displeased with believers with things we do or dont do?
Great question! God requires perfection. So how often are you perfect at obeying God? Do you love God with all your heart every day? God accepts our good works (as imperfect as they may be) because we are clothed in Christ’s righteousness, not our own. Is God displeased with our sin? Of course! What does he do about it? He calls us to bring them to him. We are reminded that the blood of Christ covers us. We walk by faith in Christ, not by faith in our obedience. God will forever be pleased with us because of Christ. One day, we will be what we are clothed in. Until then, we walk by faith imperfectly obeying and confessing our sin
How do you know that you are one of the elect absent of any outward or inward signs? Obviously, you cannot trust feelings. If you can live like the devil and still be enterally secure, then there are no proofs that you are one of the elect. What proof do you have that you are one of the elect? Good works does not save a person, and bad works does not unsave a person. On the contrary, it is through faith that one is saved, and it is through a lack of faith that one is unsaved. If you are maintaining your faith, then you are eternally secure; if you are not maintaining your faith, then you are not eternally secure. I am simply agreeing with scriptures. If we cannot be holy, then why does Peter tell us to be holy: "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:" (1 Peter 1:16-17). Peter says that we need to "pass the time of you sojourning here in fear".
Is it possible that pietism is slipped into as an attempt to deny some OTHER sin and pretend it's not as bad as it is? I do agree with this. I have slipped into pietism. I think it's one of the prominent bullet points of life in Adam. There is a YT video of Rich Mullins (in the doorway of a home or apartment) where he says that it is easy to see that we have to die to our vices. But we also have to die to our "virtues" and that's where it gets real tricky. I believe he is touching on pietism. In his song "Nothing is Beyond You" he mentions "our misguided pieties."
hello i am wondering- are all sides of pietism necessarily bad? for instance, i understand that pietist movement is largely repsondsible for our practice of bible studies and small groups. In this way, was it positive? Is there a balance to be found? Or rather are you saying all evangelical churches are corrupt?
There is nothing wrong with Bible studies and small groups. According to the video, the problem with pietism is that it teaches to look at our performance in order to have assurance of salvation. Just because you go to a Bible study or small group does not mean that you are looking at your performance in order to have assurance of salvation.
When you form your narrative on a false doctrine, which you guys do, then your understanding and explanations of spiritual matters becomes severely lacking! Your theology has more holes in it than a tea strainer! Go back to your Bible and put in some time on your knees! You are misleading people and that is a costly mistake!
Bullet points:
- "There is a fine line between piety and pietism."
- "When we are finding our assurance and our right standing before God BASED UPON our performance, that is pietism... I need to know that I'm good, that I'm not a false convert, that I'm not a lazy convert...etc. We begin to focus in on what WE can do to affirm our assurance."
- "Pietism puts the emphasis on what we are doing for God, i.e., I am doing these things for God therefore I am a Christian.."
... instead of looking only to Christ's finished work.
Do vs Done.
It is finished.
And it is all that the reminds me the reformed tradition does understand that the Gospel is what it claims to be: good news.
Thank you so much for your messages. They are an absolute blessing in the midst of all the “you must or else” messages which cause me a feeling of defeat and hopelessness. You have really helped me understand the loving kindness of Jesus. Thank you for following Jesus and spreading the actual “Good news!” May God bless you all and your families. 🙏🏻✝️🙌🏻
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 will be massively sharing this video all over the place
The video “Lutheran Pietism” by Ryan Reeves actually defines pietism. This video deals with the errors of pietism from its effects/conclusions, but does not sufficiently define it, and it’s impact in Christianity and the world today.
May God bless you am loving it 🎉🎉
They literally describe it as looking at what you’re doing to figure out if you’re saved. Or describing faith as faithfulness Or as working. It’s soooo confusing.
I haven't followed Theocast in a long time. Glad that I reconnected after all of this time. Good word.
The Lord will prefect that which concerns me-psalm 138:8-🙌🙌 I will cry out to God most high to God who performs all things for me- psalm 57:2🙌🙌
Great video great call to action I liked everything. Thank you for producing this
Praise the Lord All glory to God
Im greatful for his Grace precious blood sacrifice for me n promises for family my sins were great but His Love was greater ⚔️🧎❤️🥹🙌
Im thankful for this sermon
God bless TheoCast brothers 🙏❤️
He is right it is dangerous. We were in a church like that and we saw many families destroyed.
I know this is old, but how were the families destroyed? (Honest question)
Sweet gospel truth. My favorite Spurgeon quote is addressing pietism.
"...How frequently you who are coming to Christ look to yourselves. "O!" you say, "I do not repent enough." That is looking to yourself. "I do not believe enough." That is looking to yourself. "I am too unworthy." That is looking to yourself. "I cannot discover," says another, "that I have any righteousness." It is quite right to say that you have not any righteousness; but it is quite wrong to look for any. It is, "Look unto me." God will have you turn your eye off yourself and look unto him. The hardest thing in the world is to turn a man's eye off himself; as long as he lives, he always has a predilection to turn his eyes inside, and look at himself; whereas God says, "Look unto me." From the cross of Calvary, where the bleeding hands of Jesus drop mercy; from the Garden of Gethsemane, where the bleeding pores of the Saviour sweat pardons, the cry comes, "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth." From Calvary's summit, where Jesus cries, "It is finished," I hear a shout, "Look, and be saved." But there comes a vile cry from our soul, "Nay, look to yourself! look to yourself!" Ah, my hearer, look to yourself, and you will be damned. That certainly will come of it. As long as you look to yourself there is no hope for you. It is not a consideration of what you are, but a consideration of what God is, and what Christ is, that can save you. It is looking from yourself to Jesus. P! there be men that quite misunderstand the gospel; they think that righteousness qualifies them to come to Christ; whereas sin is the only qualification for a man to come to Jesus."
Sovereignty and Salvation
Charles Haddon Spurgeon January 6, 1856
I’ve been confused by the pietism so much. Especially in lordship salvation,or at least how it’s portrayed.
You sound almost Lutheran, absolutely correct about the dangers of Pietism!
As Luther said, "God doesn't need my good works, but my neighbor does!"...
So is pietism another name for legalism? Or what are the distinctions between the two?
So it's not piety and pietism the same thing since the other one is trying to reflect the love of Christ whilst the other one is trying to be very sure to be godly am really loving it thank God 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thank you for producing this video this helps me understand the difference. Where does the Great commission fall into this, we are called to make disciples. Would you consider that piety or pietism
I believe you're addressing an imbalance with another imbalance. There are many passages which emphasize that if God has saved us, it will be evidenced by our godliness. One can push that to a morbidly introspective extreme but that does not justify letting the pendulum swing the other way. You referenced a few verses and argued they are all speaking of our acceptance of the gospel. But Paul's warning to examine oneself in 2 Corinthians 13 is preceded by many arguments that warn people who practice certain things cannot be assured of their salvation. I'm not at all sure how you read 2 Peter 1:10's command to confirm your calling and election as not having to do with the character qualities listed in the context. He points right back to them in the following prepositional phrase. What do you even do with the arguments in 1 John or Matthew 7 or Psalm 15 or the whole of Proverbs? This is an invitation to genuine conversation.
Over the years, I feel like I’ve seen this attitude of pietism in certain friends, usually from the Calvinist/reformed side… probably because wanting to assure their salvation (perseverance of the saints). For a long time I’ve questioned why this is, thinking that Calvinists of all Christians should feel humbled in being “elect” when others aren’t. I think for a while I would have considered myself a Calvinist too, but today I don’t think I do. I don’t hold to all 5 points of TULIP (which I know the whole systematic seems to falls apart if one of the components is removed). I think Christ’s atonement was for all humanity, but not all humanity is saved because of our free will to accept or reject Jesus’s gift of salvation. God uses our free will to accomplish His will…. It’s something I’ve had to think long and hard about.
But, anyway, I understand now what has turned me off from certain Christians and not others. It’s this concept of pietism. Maybe Calvinism is more “conducive” to this malpractice or the Christian life, but I think any Christian can fall into it. After all, Arminians (which I don’t consider myself to be) have the fear of the loss/abandonment of their salvation. That could also lead to this practice of pietism (e.g. Pentecostal holiness movement).
Theocast, in your video, you come across as very gracious, and it’s a reminder for me that neither “camp” is monolithic. Also, that there are some in the Reformed community who still understand the meaning of “It is finished” and recognize the difference between piety and pietism.
Great video! 😊
I came up with a definition. Does this work?
Pietism: An (erroneous) Christian phronema that emphasizes _doing_ over _being_ in sanctification.
To clarify (which is how I hope that statement towards the end about feeling right with God was intended, based on other things I've heard from Theocast), we are only right with God because of the finished work of Jesus, not even because of what God is doing in us. This is the sole basis of our assurance as well. However, His work in us could be seen as supporting/secondary evidence (though not necessary for assurance and having nothing to do with our actual right standing before God).
I like this from Calvin's commentary on 1 John 3:14:
"The argument would be more plausible [instead of saying that we obtain life by love, which he had already debunked], were it said that love makes us more certain of life [but still false as he will show]: then confidence as to salvation would recumb on works. But the answer to this is obvious; for though faith is confirmed by all the graces of God as aids, yet it ceases not to have its foundation in the mercy of God only. As for instance, when we enjoy the light, we are certain that the sun shines; if the sun shines on the place in which we are, we have a clearer view of it; but yet when the visible rays do not come to us, we are satisfied that the sun diffuses its brightness for our benefit. So when faith is founded on Christ, some things may happen to assist it, still it rests on Christ's grace alone."
I guess Theocast takes a different view than John Owen. See "Gospel Grounds and Evidences of the Faith of God's Elect" by him. Also, Theocast takes a different stance than the confession on their interpretation of 2 Peter 1.
"The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election" followed by a footnote quoting the 2 Peter 1 passage.
Some good points here, and some I'm a little unsure of. On pietism, is this a standard definition? I can see how it can be a helpful label to apply to the tendencies you isolate, but I'm unsure, for example, how this definition relates to the historical movement known as pietism. Others seem to use it of the tendency to separate secular and sacred, emphasising what is held to be 'sacred' at the expense of obedience to Christ in every sphere of life.
Why do they always say “give your life to Christ” or surrender/submit your life to Christ” in order to be saved instead of just put your faith in Christ?
Great question, will be doing a video on it soon
@@THEOCAST that will be great! I’m looking forward to it. This topic caused me so much mental turmoil that I can’t even explain. I was extremely frustrated and confused.
How do I access the free ebook Faith vs Faithfulness?
Theocast.org/primer
Heres the odd thing of this vid: I agree 100% with what you said, but you re giving Pietism another definition, instead of the movement that took place on Europe. Maybe you re addressing legalism, which are almost 100% praticized by people orphaned on their minds of the inclusive and adoptive salvation Christ bestowed us on that cross, and for that, they try to fill their acceptance with works.
Hello! Thank you for the video! Are Evangelical Free Churches practicing this?
Well that was a bit disappointed - I found this to be a strawman of what pietism is and I actually wanted to learn what pietism is and not why it’s bad.
Jon, I have had this conversation with others in the past week about does God get "disappointed" with us when we commit certain sins as a believer? or is God "pleased" with us when we do certain acts as a believer. Nothing effects our salvation but does God become pleased or displeased with believers with things we do or dont do?
Great question! God requires perfection. So how often are you perfect at obeying God? Do you love God with all your heart every day? God accepts our good works (as imperfect as they may be) because we are clothed in Christ’s righteousness, not our own. Is God displeased with our sin? Of course! What does he do about it? He calls us to bring them to him. We are reminded that the blood of Christ covers us. We walk by faith in Christ, not by faith in our obedience. God will forever be pleased with us because of Christ. One day, we will be what we are clothed in. Until then, we walk by faith imperfectly obeying and confessing our sin
@@THEOCAST Love it! Thanks brother! Appreciate the reply.
How do you know that you are one of the elect absent of any outward or inward signs? Obviously, you cannot trust feelings. If you can live like the devil and still be enterally secure, then there are no proofs that you are one of the elect. What proof do you have that you are one of the elect? Good works does not save a person, and bad works does not unsave a person. On the contrary, it is through faith that one is saved, and it is through a lack of faith that one is unsaved. If you are maintaining your faith, then you are eternally secure; if you are not maintaining your faith, then you are not eternally secure. I am simply agreeing with scriptures. If we cannot be holy, then why does Peter tell us to be holy: "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:" (1 Peter 1:16-17). Peter says that we need to "pass the time of you sojourning here in fear".
You look to the gospel
@@Foggybottom45543 You can look to the gospel all you want, but you can never know if you are truly saved until you draw your last breath.
Is it possible that pietism is slipped into as an attempt to deny some OTHER sin and pretend it's not as bad as it is?
I do agree with this. I have slipped into pietism. I think it's one of the prominent bullet points of life in Adam. There is a YT video of Rich Mullins (in the doorway of a home or apartment) where he says that it is easy to see that we have to die to our vices. But we also have to die to our "virtues" and that's where it gets real tricky. I believe he is touching on pietism. In his song "Nothing is Beyond You" he mentions "our misguided pieties."
Shouldn't that be "affect" though?
hello i am wondering- are all sides of pietism necessarily bad? for instance, i understand that pietist movement is largely repsondsible for our practice of bible studies and small groups. In this way, was it positive? Is there a balance to be found? Or rather are you saying all evangelical churches are corrupt?
There is nothing wrong with Bible studies and small groups. According to the video, the problem with pietism is that it teaches to look at our performance in order to have assurance of salvation.
Just because you go to a Bible study or small group does not mean that you are looking at your performance in order to have assurance of salvation.
Calvinists…
Gumawa ka lang ng mabuti tapos ang usapan hindi ung nilologican mo pa ad nauseam
When you form your narrative on a false doctrine, which you guys do, then your understanding and explanations of spiritual matters becomes severely lacking!
Your theology has more holes in it than a tea strainer!
Go back to your Bible and put in some time on your knees!
You are misleading people and that is a costly mistake!