Villain Therapy: SPLIT and Dissociative Identity Disorder
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2022
- Is SPLIT an accurate portrayal of Dissociative Identity Disorder? Mostly no. But it does get some things right!
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright take a look at the many identities of James McAvoy in one of M. Night Shyamalan's best (if not clinically accurate) films. (And some of McAvoy's best performances! Seriously, incredible work.) They talk about how trauma can lead to Dissociative Identity Disorder, what DID systems look like in real life, the therapist in the film and what she gets right and wrong in working with this DID system, and the spectacular story telling and performances in Split. It's a balance between loving this movie as an interesting and entertaining film, and recognizing the problems with the mental health portrayals.
Watch our other episodes about DID:
Moon Knight: • Psychology of a Hero: ...
Gollum/Smeagol: • Villain Therapy: Gollu...
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: Trevor Horton, tzhediting.com
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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My therapist explained my condition to me beautifully 'You do not have more than one personality; in effect, you have less than one. Your personality has created specialists to deal with life for you, a child to play, an empath to sooth, a protector to stand against threats, it goes on. They are all of you, and you are all of them - all uniquely crafted as experts in their field and there to help you navigate a complex and dynamic world. Why? Well, because your mind probably feels, and quite rightly, that you've suffered enough, and its time to share that load'
What a beautiful description
I LOVE that!
I love that sm
That’s beautiful
that is beautiful
As someone with OSDD, or called "Other Specified Dissociative Disorder", the movie Split really broke my heart. We're not overly violent monsters who have to "hold back the bad ones", it's more of just tryna remember who ate the spaghetti I put in the fridge two days ago and why I'm wearing a top I didn't wear earlier.
Another good answer I never even thought of!😃😄😅🤣😂
Honestly, I find both descriptions rather frightening. There's just one of "me" and sometimes I'll get up from my chair and walk into a room without really knowing what I'm doing. I can't imagine how disorienting it must be to have blackout moments. :(
@@wintergray1221 Oh, before I realized their existences? It was pretty scary at first. But over time as we got used to each other and got the hang of switching, we barely have any blackouts anymore.
I would carry a notebook all time to get everyone updated 😅. Memory loss sucks enough when it is only my brain who is oblivious 😂
This is so relatable I almost cried. I'm lucky 'cause the others no longer steal my cookies.
That's it, folks: The real crimes that people with DID or other related disorders commit are stealing... from each other. IN THE SAME BODY
This movie isn't accurate, but god is James McAvoy's performance on another level. My fiance has DID, and WOW each person in her head has VERY distinct voices, mannerisms, just everything about them. Also, like I mentioned in the comments of y'all's Moon Knight video, we HARD agree that it is one of the greatest, most accurate depictions of DID ever committed to the screen...
Congrats on the permanence with your lovebunch! (^•^) so lovely to see that you accept a system like this. My husband is still learning what it means to have a system for a spouse. 🤷🏼♀️ women have a reputation for already being complicated, but as a system, that makes me more complex. I wish you two lots of happiness!
Check out Doom Patrol and Franky and Alice (2010) for even better and more accurate depictions. The entire arc of Jane and The Underground from season 1 to season 4 goes above and beyond Moon Knight. Franky and Alice is based off of a True Story of someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder who was interviewed for the movie.
Thank you for the rec!! I love someone with DID and I'll definitely be adding moon knight to my list. It's fairly new so I'm just starting research
Having a bunch of switches happen right after another, or having a lot of people wanting control/partial control/being forced into control is definitely a thing that can happen.
Also, the moment where Hedwig goes, "Is he crying?!" is REAL. Sometimes an alter will come to the front and be bewildered by the state of the body. Once upon a time, some of my fellow alters could come to the front and be like, "Excuse me, Host, the body is A. Very tired, B. Starving, and C. In terrible pain. And you've been doing *nothing* about it??"
Yes, we have had alters come forward and discover that someone had been crying or there is some other physical thing that can be observed.
I'm just confused when I "come back" to find that I'm full, after only having the thought that I plan to eat something- and it irks me when one of my extras MOVES MY PHONE and doesn't make it obvious where it was put.
One time my older Alter Dean came to the front and got very upset with me because I had been so depressed I had been in bed for two days no food or sleep just staring at the wall. He got us up made us eat and shower and call our mom ( who still doesn't believe in D.I.D) and told her to call my therapist for an emergency meeting ( she was paying for the sessions and we didn't have her number. )
I couldn't imagine being alive without them getting me up to do things sometimes.
I don't have DID, but that one where the alters come forward to complain about the body’s care sounds very familiarly parental. Tough, but fair and benevolent 😊
I'm a diagnosed sytem that has been seeing a DID therapist for almost a year now and yes 2 or more alters/identities can be at the "front" at the same time. Its called co-conscience. And rapid switching is definatly a thing. THANK YOU for covering this topic. There is a lot is missinformation out there.
Thank you I was scrolling down a while to find this comment.. and I just didn’t wanna make it myself because I am lazy
The more a system interacts and works together the more likely you can have this experience
I was looking to see if someone else said this too. :) I am a diagnosed system as well. We can definitely co-con (we call it co-piloting) but we've never been able to use both hands to write at the same time. Rapid switching is absolutely a thing. And so are conversations out loud, though most often it's the one fronting speaking to the inner voice of the person still in the shared space.
@@AuntieCreed Well, if both of the alters copiloting at that moment have the same handedness, Id imagine that would make it as hard for you both to write at the same time as for anyone else to write with their non-dominant hand.
@@AuntieCreed YES!!! oh my god i thought we were the only system in the comment section experiencing this conversational stuff while being co-con. its also hard for us to believe that other people do not have their "thoughts" (co-con alters) answering them while talking out loud. ways of thinking has been the most interesting thing to discuss with our friends who do not have DID.
I'm a therapist who has worked with four clients with DID. The thing I tell new therapists about switching is this: it is NOT creepy, like in the movies. At least in my experience of witnessing switching, it is more organic, subtle, logical, and curious, but not creepy or scary. I think that is important to note. This has been my experience.
I really appreciate you saying this, because I switch even in front of people in mid-conversation and no one ever notices a difference. And it's the exact opposite of how this movie portrays; it's not like "there's now a murderer lurking in their mind and you'll never know," but rather it's because someone said something that was very triggering and so one of my other sides comes out to handle it. The impetus isn't "I don't like what you said, so now I want to hurt you," it's instead, "I've just been hurt, so now I need to handle it." It's largely due to social conformity that I even switch, because if it was just about my feelings, I'd break down sobbing or otherwise have some kind of episode; switching keeps me going either in my work, conversations, chores, self-care, so on.
@@ray25lee I completely agree. For me a conversation switch is like "you've hurt and scared me now I need to hide and this person can keep me safe amd handle this. We will escape. "
@@ray25lee Thank you for this explanation. It's good to finally hear the perspective of a person who actually knows what this is like.
My friend with DID had some seizure like symptoms during at least one of her transitions and the neurologist told us he had seen that in other DID cases.
But it's not scary in the way the film is. We just had her checked medically to make sure she wasn't dealing with something else on top of the DID.
I suspect her other transitions were less dramatic, because I had trouble convincing other people she knew there was anything wrong at all.
(I was only telling people she permitted. I could tell something was seriously wrong when I met her. It just took a few months to figure out what.)
Yes. I've seen it happen with people I knew and it was never creepy, maybe weird until learning to adapt to it but it was like each individual emotion had its own role or personality that appeared to adapt to circumstances
20:37 This fast switching is actually extremely accurate to high stress moments, where no alter wishes to exist, therefore every part is attempting to dissociate to another, and it can make for very quick, manic switching at random. it doesn’t happen often, and when it does, it is due to extremely high stress and its kind of like a system implosion or meltdown where no one is up to serve the function of getting into the trauma due to the severe stress involved.
I had the warriors to take charge in the case of danger, and the Vulcan woman when no one else could handle the emotional pain. My parents insisted that I walked around like a robot because I was so emotionless when she was out.
I've never personally had very many fast switches in high stress, usually I'll dissociate and kinda just leave the body empty until there's someone who can deal with the issue 🙃 but I have had panicked switches before and I always feel anxiety sickness afterwards
Rapid switching really sucks, and is typically happening because the body is in so much pain that no one can handle it. Also in high stress situations of course.
@@PhantomQueenOneI also have a system influenced by Star Trek. Our chief security for the body is Lieutenant Worf, and we have many parts that are Borg. They are always in distress being separated from the hive mind, but one of them has come out enough times that he is exploring being independent.
THANK YOU for breaking the stereotype of OCD! As someone who has suffered with it for a long time, I am passionate about getting the message out there. The stereotype may mean that one less person gets diagnosed as they don't know that what they have is an illness
Several of my loved ones live with varying degrees of OCD and I've seen firsthand how debilitating it can be at times. People wanting everything to be neat/organized and saying things like, "Sorry, I'm just so OCD," always sets me off and I'll respond with something along the lines of, "I get what you mean, I can be soooo cholera sometimes." They're usually confused about me using cholera, and illness, as a descriptor like that and I use it to point out that they're also using an actual mental disorder/illness as a descriptor too and that's what they sound like.
I also have OCD and greatly appreciate the ways they've discussed it on this channel. Especially in when they talk about Bruno! (From Encanto)
Same, I think mine stems from childhood trauma. I hate when people don't take it seriously, and they think you're purposely being an asshole. When in reality, your brain is a mess therefore you're a mess, you have a negative perspective on yourself, So ofc it affects your behavior.
Also have OCD and it has caused me sleepless nights and wasted time among a list of other problems. And then recently I told someone I have it and we were in my room, which might I just add is a catastrophe of a mess due to other mental illnesses I have to deal with, their first response to finding out I have OCD was "how are you able to live in this mess?" because allegedly all their OCD friends are extremely neat and particular about where everything gets placed etc. So then I had to try and explain that extreme tendency to orderliness doesn't equate to OCD because this mess isn't what causes me crippling anxiety I ruminate over and have to use rituals to alleviate the anxiety. It would be pretty great if I had some desire to clean and keep everything ultra tidy tbh, but my depression actively battles against me and had given up, and when I'm manic I'm too busy dancing outside and manifesting world peace with my magic to be concerned about a messy room.
the stereotype of it sure was the reason my ocd diagnosis was so heavily delayed
im a messy person, i dont fit this specific dumb stereotype
As a spouse to someone with DID, I truly appreciate you taking the time to clarify that they can be happy and healthy as the system they are. You guys are great!
How are you though?
Genuine curiosity, apologies and please let me know if I'm overstepping but what does it feel like being in a relationship with multiple identities? Does your relationship shift drastically depending which identity is "in the light", does it feel like cheating with the other identity(ies) sometimes, do you view the system as a single person or do you just treat it like a thruple-esque situation?
Again, no obligation to answer me if it makes you uncomfortable, I'm just a curious internet stranger.
@@rheyn8356 given how complicated and personal your questions are I would recommend looking it up online or posing it to a subreddit instead of putting the labor on this commentor to explain and would only give your their perspective.
@@rheyn8356 in my personal experience, as with any other person, all the relationships have different dynamics. Lover, friend, protector, it all depends on individuals.
@@rheyn8356 well I'm not the person you're talking to, but I can answer some things: 1 - yes, the relationship changes depending on the alter that's fronting, but most of the time non-systems date just one of the alters and makes friends / acquaintances with the rest, which leads to number 2 - it's complicated, but most of the time no, it doesn't really feel like cheating, specially if there's open communication in the relationship(s). 3 - it depends on situation, sometimes you should view them as the alter who is fronting, and other times you should view them as a system, though the knowledge of when to view them as each you only gain with experience. that's it: there's some channels of D.I.D. systems in UA-cam that can answer a lot of questions, you just need a quick search
Edit: grammar correction.
Hi, DID system here! Thank you for that video, I was so scared it would have been stigmatizing so I was truly glad when I heard you say that you're trying to show how Split does NOT represent dissociative identity disorder. This disorder is so stigmatized, partially due to that movie, and I heard countless times people bullying DID systems using that film. Great point about the message of the therapist's death, thank you for bringing that up!
The issue with the debate between responsibility of the artist vs responsibility of the audience is that the audience didn't know what DID is. This disorder is so taboo and misunderstood in general, Split was for so many people the first time they heard about DID. And this movie made so much damage because the storyline explicitly links the criminal and dangerous behavior of the character with his mental illness. He's a monster *because* he has DID. Even though the audience have the responsibility of not being gullible and thinking this is how DID presents, the director has the responsibility to not represent a minority as people inherently dangerous.
We are not monsters. We exist as a consequence of what actual monsters did to us when we were a child. And it is so damaging for childhood trauma survivors to be seen as monsters for their trauma-based disorder which will never go away.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to systems after your video about Gollum. To answer a few things you said in that video (and this is based on my experience and the experience of the systems I know):
-Yes it is possible for different alters to be "in the light" at the same time. There is a distinction made between co-fronting (both alters being in control) and co-consciousness (one in control and one present as a spectator). In our case, we have a lot of co-consciousness where the host is present but someone else is there too in order to help them, without necessarily taking her place. Sometimes systems can communicate with each other because they're co-front or co-con, but in our case the communication is way too bad to be able to have a conversation where each alter can talk out loud. But sometimes the host will talk out loud to answer someone speaking internally, or things like that, because it can help with the communication.
-Lots of people believe there is no original alter, based on the theory that kids aren't born with one unique and defined identity, but multiple emotional states that are created during the first years of their life, until a point (around 7-9 years old), when those emotional states would integrate to form the identity of the person. In that theory, DID is caused by the presence of amnesic and traumatic barriers in between those emotional states which prevents them from integrating, therefore each of them developed separately. Which is why DID is caused by specifically childhood trauma, it is caused by traumas *before* that integration could take place.
-Yes it is possible to rapid switch, but it happens usually when the person is really stressed or really tired. It happened to me once, and it was an incredibly disorientating moment where I was so tired and so dissociated and in a really bad place mentally. I believe we were 3 or 4 alters rapid switching between each other, while we had a conversation with our best friend, who noticed what was happening and told us. But it's not common though.
-Having child alters like Hedwig makes sense and is accurate with the actual disorder. Sometimes alters can appear as if they have no purpose, not because they don't have one but because it may not be explicit. Having littles (which is the term used for child alters) can be a way for the body to experience an innocent and happy childhood for the adult who didn't have one. From what I understand, alters are made in reaction to either a trauma or a need. If they're not based on traumas, it probably means it's the other one. Littles getting to experience bits of what a 'normal childhood' is can help the adult who needed to experience that when they were a kid but couldn't.
We aren't monsters. Even though Hollywood use our disorder as a horror storyline. Between Split and the documentaries made about Billie Milligan, when DID is represented in the media it's mostly to depict us as dangerous criminals. I hope everyone could understand that DID systems are VICTIMS. They are survivors of terrible things that shouldn't happens to anyone, even more to a child. Why are we represented as the bad guys when all we did was survived to abuse so severe it changed the way our brains work?
No we don't crawl on the walls. We can't physically change. We don't have a beast hidden inside. We aren't crazy. We aren't delusional. It's not role-play either, it's not a game. It's a serious psychological disorder. The only thing hidden in ourselves is the pain of what we had to endure. We're normal people like everyone, we're just like a vase someone throw on the ground: we're broken in multiple pieces. But we're still a person. And I hope one day this disorder won't be so stigmatized.
Thank you for sharing your experience! I think the first time I heard about DID system was in Sybil and I saw that when I was 8 years old at a friend's house. It was a scary a startling movie as a child, not because of the character with DID but because of the trauma she was made to endure. I don't know how true to your experience that may be, but my take away from it was that a person with DID is just a different way if coping with trauma and that it truly helps them. Do you have any thoughts on Sybil? I think it was made in the early 90s.
Beautifully said ❤️🌞🌜
@@rachealborders I can't believe you saw that film when you were so young. It's so horrible. They first said it was based on a true story but it was later discovered that it wasn't based on a true story at all. It was first a book and then made into a movie in 1976. Other movies came after...
Wow, I applaud you for being so open and honest! You are amazing ❤️ I'm so sorry society has demonized your struggles.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I hope more people can read your comment because it gives an accurate representation on what DID is since it is coming from someone that actually has it. I think it is important that when trying to understand something, people should go to someone who has that experience and that understanding, though people shouldn't be forced to tell or explain their experiences if they do not want to. It wouldn't make sense to try to understand what it is like to go through cancer and ask someone what it is like to be left handed. Again, thank you for sharing your experiences, and I hope the best for you.
We are a DID system of 7.
You cannot imagine how much we appreciate this video right here. One time when we were speaking with a friend (ex friend now) we tried to come out and they immediately associated us with this movie.
The media loves to hate us. Almost every representation we got to whitness, was either "they are a monster" or "here's a goofy character! laugh at them!".
This is why we are scared to come out. because we are afraid to be met with people thinking we are monsters, or not taking us seriously.
people do not understand our experience, and to an extent, they never will. just as I can't imagine living without my alters, normal people cannot imagine living with them.
We greatly appreciate your open mind, the encouragment of critizing you if you got something wrong and to push people to be more understanding towards us, and the entire community.
thank you.
I was previously friends with someone with DID (we've since lost touch.) We worked together and the main/original personality would typically try to stay in charge while on the clock. I remember the one time I could visibly tell when a switch happened was at work and even though I hadn't met that alter before I knew about him and most or all of the alters (including that one) knew about me too. I immediately realized that the person I was talking to was not the same one from five seconds earlier and it was such a strange experience.
Same here we are a system of 21 and he really did a great job
I kind of wonder: I was thinking about creating new friendships, completely from scratch, that as a person who is looking from the outside (and also there is some suggestion that may have Asperger’s, but without diagnosis yet) I would probably have a lot of questions to try to understand the situation. So then I thought: would that person even be open to go through that potential ‘investigation’? Especially as I struggle with understanding the rules of social interactions, so in this situation to feel like I can make any moves comfortably, I would have to gain a lot of knowledge. So I guess that is my question; are some systems even open to this kind of situation?
We?
@@chavitanwar2126 my understanding: one body with system of 7 personalities treated equally - reasonable use of ‘we’
I will never get over my high school psych teach showing us this movie as an educational film. One of those teachers who was only there to coach the extracurricular sports
Jesus. That is appalling. I liked the film, but watched as something firmly placed outside of reality, in a comic book universe. I was also a well-educated adult whe I saw it. Using it as a teaching tool is hugely irresponsible.
my psych teacher in high school also showed this movie, but to showcase the inaccuracies and use it as an example of how misinformation can be harmful in media
Jesussss
ME TOO BRO. i was so pissed i complained about it for weeks
We stan Jonathan’s humility and willingness to listen to people who actually have DID, and admit when he was wrong about some things. 💖 Jonathan, you are just an incredible person, and any patient would be absolutely lucky to have you as their therapist!
Agreed! That's incredibly courageous in today's world yet very necessary.
This yo!!! THIS 1000% !!!!
Bout time they got to this!
absolutely! he's definitely wrong about a couple things, but what matters is that he understands that science is always evolving and he's actually willing to listen to and consider new perspectives!!
I AGREE
"What was the purpose of Hedwig?" I believe that Hedwig was there because Kevin never actually got to be a child. Hedwig was the child that Kevin wasn't allowed to be: playful, discovering, curious, naughty, clumsy, etc.
Also, James McAvoy deserves every award ever for this role, even awards that don't strictly apply.
Many of the DID systems I've seen have some child alters.
That was my interpretation too! Like he probably showed up to allow that system to experience that carefreeness from childhood that neither Kevin or the others got to feel.
I think he’s also a gatekeeper with the power to bring out and bar people since he needs to be asked or instructed to do that (implying others can’t do it)
@@philopharynx7910 I met a person with DID who told me she has 4 personalities split by age and the youngest one is 5 who always nags her to buy a gigantic doll house. She hopes to one day be able to afford a place big enough for a room with a big doll house for her child self in hopes that will make her happy instead of begging for it all the time.
I'm sure one of the personalities he created has written something worthy of a Pulitzer.
When you make a movie that depicts a vulnerable group of people as dangerous, I think you should at least put a disclaimer. Thank you for the episode, it's always great and interesting ❤
You sound like a whiny B
I have D.I.D. and I completely agree with your assessment. But... some of my parts REALLY enjoyed the idea of being a super hero, super strong physically and allowing ourselves to become something larger than life. Totally understandable since we couldn't have any day or fight back growing up
I think Hedwig's psychological use in protecting Kevin was to emulate a fun carefree childhood that he never got initially and gets to experience that fun dopey nerdy kid life vicariously through Hedwig.
Yeah my "inner child" self is the WORST prankster, and will even impersonate other personas in order to create true psychological mischief... there was one time an old lady and us were each being too polite to walk through a door, and he finally decided the issue by saying, "Age before beauty".... Inner kids ARE KIDS!!!
Yes! Thank you for this. I was looking specifically for this very comment. So glad someone else was thinking it as well.
Skål 🍻
@@leppender2450 THE NERVE! jk aside your little sounds amazing
That's my take on it too; we have a kid who does EXACTLY that for us, and I recognized Hedwig as the same role pretty much instantly.
Yes! So glad to see this. My sister has DID as well. Many systems may have a child identity in order to relive the childhood they never got, and to protect that age of tender innocence.
Also, it’s typically seen as disrespectful to call a particular alter the “original” personality. Unless the alter doesn’t exist anymore because they split, in which case it would be fine. But generally for existing alters, calling one the “original” discounts the existence of the others and makes them feel unwanted and misunderstood.
My therapist draws a distinction between me, Emily, and the “original Emily”. The original Emily is who we all were before trauma happened. But me, Emily, am just another alter within a system, I just HAPPEN to identify with the name given to us. *I* am not the original personality, I just have the same name as her. The original personality does not exist as one anymore, she is in eight pieces which ALL have aspects of her “original personality”.
I remember that The Entropy System had two alters who identified with the "body name", both were many years long hosts, one went dormant (kind of like sleeping for years) and then resurfaced, and that alter had to change the name to avoid confusion since the body name was taken by the current host.
So we should call ""the original"" as the older alter instead?
@@Zarlos01 I think the point is that they are all equals, regardless of the timeline. Everyone in the system is an alter and the host is usually just the person that is around the most.
@@Ghost-ql6tn okay but how do you differenciate the person before they split
@@Ghost-ql6tn One thing that gets me is how to address the identity prior to the trauma and DID. I expect doctors would want to go there to get to know the initial memories, to come to a full understanding (I've seen some systems where the alters only remember things from the point they emerged). Average people would want to know that to have kind of a sense of security since it's hard to be friends with someone you feel you don't know the basics - like their identity - DID can be complicated when it comes to grasping a reality feel.
Could we call that the first host?
The scene in Split where the doctor is giving her lecture made me cry because it felt like somebody finally understood because what she said was so very f****** true
Hi. We're polyfragmented, so I don't know if that changes our experiences, but we are co-conscious at least 80% of the time. We talk to each other, make plans and collaborate. Sometimes the headmate in the body will talk out loud to those in the headspace. It's helps us feel sane and grounded. Usually about 3-8 of us are in what we call the board room at the same time. We don't all have control, but we can communicate. We all have different voices and our admin and primaries have gotten really good at telling us apart. We've never had two people in control of the body at one time though.
Not we, I. Don't be an idiot. Its you in different dissociative states if you're even telling the truth at all. If you really had it, you'd be sectioned or in therapy. You don't just live with it, you get treated and recover.
@@avalancheKT Step 1. Finds a video on a mental topic. Step 2. Find a year old comment on that video talking about their personal experience with it. Step 3. Berate them for their word choice not following your standards.
*personal experience with a similar mental thingo
@@avalancheKT Dont write comments on a topic you have no knowledge about. Dont be an idiot
I remember watching a UA-camr with DID express how frustrated and annoyed she was how many people in her comment section say that they thought they now understood DID because they saw Split. The second I heard that I just put my face in my hands, gutted at how anyone could think Hollywood would ever possibly portray mental health well. They NEVER do. Not that I've ever seen anyway. My parents are therapists and they've always been irritated at how therapists have been portrayed on TV for a long time too. I recall my mum saying "TV just doesn't GET (understand) therapy." I think TV needs therapy! :D
Agreed! Another thing they like to portray wrong are Chriatians. They either make them out to be complete fanatics that would kill you for Jesus or total fools just waiting to be had.
From what I hear, Silver Linings Playbook does a decent job portraying Bipolar, but that's probably the exception proving the rule...
Might I suggest Moon Knight? I've heard it's pretty accurate in its portrayal!
Edit: Ayyyyy! They mentioned it! =D
I think anyone who isn't a straight, white, heterosexual, cisgender, neurotypical, able bodied, middle class man is not going to be portrayed well. The Bechdel test started as a joke, but it hit something on representation and people started taking it seriously. I think if it was extended to other minorities, there won't be a single big budget thing to watch.
@@TheQuietTyper unless it's made by someone in that community
Hedwig is in the movie to represent a “little” alter I’m pretty sure. Littles are just as necessary in a system because they help relieve stress and are also trauma holders. I loved seeing him on screen. The actor gets the childish nature down pretty good and is relatively accurate for a little.
I thought Hedwig played a similar role to Steven grant in moon knight as in to let Kevin feel happy
That is a great way to put it! Having a little of our own, we take great care of them and make sure they're oki if they feel down. Thank you for helping me make that connection of Hedwig in the moive.
He also acts as a gatekeeper and can control who does and doesn’t front
He seemed little to me, an age regressor but then I started thinking I was being silly. I actually remember hearing about little alters
I have a friend with a 4 yr old little who never says much more than "Mummy help me Daddy is hurting me".
Rapid switching can be very common. Co-fronting can also be common. All of these things depend on the system and the situation. I would also add that it can often be really hard to tell from the outside why an alter is/was needed in the system, and it can get a lot more complicated than being needed to protect. I also think there's an important distinction about DID being a disorder but the alters themselves not necessarily being the problem. It's absolutely a disorder for us, but that doesn't mean the solution is to try to make all the alters go away/fuse back together. We need to work on other things within the system to get to a better place.
20:34 it really depends on the situation and the system. There is no real normal in DID, so every system is a little different. Our system does have some influence over fronting at times, as in we can decide to ‘step out of the light’ and let someone else take over. This means that an alter has started fronting, and just immediately decided ‘nope, I’m not gonna do this right now’ and left. There’s times we’ll go days without switching, and sometimes we’ll switch half a dozen or more times a day
DID system here!! Going into this video, we were so worried that the video would just be full of stigma and inaccuracies, but we are so relieved you guys talked about how Split's portrayal of DID was ultimately harmful for the DID community. Thank you so much. ❤
Interesting, thank you all for sharing 😊
I don't see how it could be harmful. It's clearly fiction, a movie, and if real people are using a movie to justify their bigotry, then its on those people, not the movie.
@@drvurruct2274 from a DID system, fiction really does alter people's biases, even if people don't realize. Like how everyone thinks that rabbits like carrots, or cats drink milk, it's not true but Hollywood has convinced everyone of it. We've had people we've told about us and they've asked "Who's the evil alter?" And it's extremely harmful because there isn't an evil alter, but Hollywood convinced everyone that's what DID is
@@drvurruct2274 if the only exposures you ever get to a typ of people portrays them as dangerous and frightning, yes, then it is harmful. If this was the only movie or people where commenly aware that a massiv majority of systems where utterly harmless it would not be that much of a problem, but as it is split and American psycho make up the bulk of exposure leading to the assumption, that being harmful is part of the diagnosis. With no positiv examples to counteract it there is no reason to question it either. This movie is clearly fiction, with the supernatural, not concerning the "inherent danger" someone with DID poses. The movie makes no attempt at all to establish that they are an exception in that!
@@drvurruct2274 I don't have DID but I have heard people genuinely thinking that it's common for people to have a dangerous or even murderous alter after this movie came out which I'm like 99.9% sure is not true at all. I don't think it's necessarily the movies fault bc I do agree with you that it should be obvious that this is 100% fictional but I also think it's important to acknowledge the affect it had
As someone with OCD, i’m so glad you made the distinction between OCD and OCPD, it’s so often confused in modern media. There needs to be better representation of it. I don’t care if it’s represented in media, but if it is, I just want accuracy.
Honestly, I didn't even know OCPD was a thing, I thought there was just OCD and people were confusing OCD symptoms with "must clean" for some silly reason. It makes a lot more sense that some dumb people would confuse OCD with OCPD. So that little tidbit was nice to know about!
AMEN
I think I have some kind of OCPD but only at work.
I weirdly doesn't organize things in my house while at work, things has to be really neat and fits every corner perfectly.
@@oo8962 ir could be, ocd for me will attack for specific things and places. i’d imagine ocpd is no different. i worry about germs but only in bathrooms and garbage disposal rooms, everywhere else is fine.
I never heard of ocpd and I was diagnosed with ocd but I’ve felt weird the more I looked into it because I don’t know how strongly I related to it but his description of ocpd sounds closer so that might be something I ask a therapist if I can ever afford to go back to one
This film was my introduction to DID, and I it sort of got me slightly interested in DID and wanting to figure out and meet people who have it. Luckily I didn't listen to it too much. Moon knight and this video really got me interested in it. Reading the comments was really educational for me, and it definitely got me extremely interested in it. If you have DID, you have my absolute deepest sympathy for what happened to you, and I hope that you are seen and heard. I hope that julle have an amazing life and julle learn and grow with each other.
Love julle. 😘
It’s so hard to find accurate depictions of DID in media, and more often than not it’s wrong. As a System myself, i really really appreciate you guys talking about the imperfections and dramatized of DID in media. Thank you guys so much.
Hey! A system of 10 here, and we'd like to clarify a few things- Yes, two people can front at the same time, and it is known as cofronting! There are even moments where, in systems with less dissociative barriers, two or more alters (or headmates) can fuse temporarily to become someone new.
For us, we are traumagenic, we experienced extreme repeated childhood trauma and this is simply the only way our brain would be able to survive. However, we have met systems that have not come from trauma or may not know of their trauma, so we don't like to enforce the barrier that "you cannot be a system without trauma". Most are, but there hasn't been nearly enough research or awareness of this state of being, and we'd rather encourage others to seek therapy than to gatekeep.
We are in therapy, but we are happy as a system and don't consider it a negative or a hindrance to be what we are.
If you ever would like to talk to systems more in depth about movies that reflect our experiences, we think that could be a really cool way to learn a little bit more about the spectrum of people with these circumstances. (Of course we absolutely volunteer our system as an option, lol)
We love your videos! Thank you for bringing more awareness in a healthy and safe way.
I was looking for this comment, I’m not a system but I have researched DID a lot and I was like “isn’t that co-fronting? Or something?” So thanks for clearing that up!!
Whenever I’m co-fronting with someone, we fuse into some sort of mix between temporary sub-system and temporary alter.
I don’t think it happens when I’m not in the mix.
(It’s rare that I end up in the back or co-con instead of the front, and I can’t reach back far enough to remember if it happened when we were younger.)
Exactly. We're a DID system and when they mentioned co-fronting being "hollywood" it made my eyebrow raise. Love the video and the attention to detail, but there are still some inaccuracies. It just shows how little academic research there is about the disorder still
C-c-cap
If you keep reinforcing your fake mental illness you might not be able to be a normal person ever again. Maybe youd like that if attention is all you want, but something to think about fs. I say that because your meta awareness comes of as disingenuous, more towards yourself than us.
The problem with movies like Split is when people learn you have DID, they immediately go 'Ok, I believe you are not dangerous, but could you get away from me in case you are hiding a serial killer inside you, you don't know about'. That is why not many people know about my DID.
We already have a scene with the therapist talking about DID. If she would have added a line that said, "While most DID systems are as law abiding as the rest of us, this case has some antisocial tendencies." This says that Kevin's system is not like the usual DID case. It separates the condition and the bad behaviors. A couple seconds handles this. It's not a perfect solution, but it is better than what we have.
While this must be really isolating and not exactly a healthy way to communicate your worries to someone who's not well, i hope you understand where people come from when they say this. It is not safe to be around someone you cannot predict. Out of love one can learn and get over a personality disorder, but if they've no love or responsibility towards you, it is safer for them to go talk to someone who's always the same. Systems vome from trauma, but so do many other coping mechanisms such as detachment and avoidance.
Everyone knows every DID system comes with a serial killer /s
@@blahblahblah4544 That probably would have helped, but one line can easily be missed. In particular, if it's a quick throwaway comment that isn't emphasized, it can feel less like responsible disclaimer and more like CYA.
Also worthy of note, one of the problems with portrayals of DID is the same problem we run into with portrayals of OCD, ADHD, bipolar, autism, and so many other mental illnesses and neurodivergences--when all of the portrayals of a group are the same brand of negative and unsympathetic, boy, people sure do absorb that stereotype. No one raindrop is responsible for the flood, but they all contribute.
I've got DID and have people literally said things like that. Or asked "Which one is the evil one?"
In our case, yes, rapid switching occurs. It sometimes happens within the blink of an eye. We were working at a store and suddenly an alter took over and spoke to a man she knew, that the rest of us didn't know, then she was gone. That is our existence. Each alter can pop out and speak words, or control the body. I remember watching the left hand do things opposite of what the right hand was doing. Lots of dropped or thrown plates and cups!
Thank you for this video. I realized I was a system almost a year ago and I remember feeling weirdly like I could relate to this movie. Obviously now I realize where it goes wrong (which is in. many places, and I'm glad you point it out), but it's also nice to be able to take this film for what it is and hear somebody actually talking about DID. The fact that you even know what DID is really makes me happy.
HEDWIG IS IMPORTANT!! littles in general play such a HUGE role in a system. They take on the role of the inner child. They are the systems sense of innocence. They are the child they never got to be. Hedwig's role is to be a child and do the things that Kevin never got to. To fill that void, to be a kid. Thats what his purpose is.
Edit: I also wanna add that littles can also play protective roles in systems, as well as any other kind of role. They can also be gatekeepers, persecutors, trauma holders, and lots of other stuff I'm not remembering. “Little” is just the name we give to a child alter and is just one part of that alter's identity. Littles CAN have "being a little" as their only job but that's not always the case. I do think Hedwig specifically is probably just supposed to be a kid like I said before, but I know from personal experience and was reminded that littles in systems/going into little space can have multiple purposes. Thanks guys :))
Seconded
Littles are important and should be protected, but all of what you said just now is not necessarily true. Littles can represent those things sometimes, but each alter can be different. Thats true for littles too. Sometimes the littles can be protectors or even persecutors. In my system, our only little, a 9 year old girl named Elaine, is our trauma holder. She isnt a usual happy go lucky child. She doesnt like her face being seen, she doesnt like talking very much. Another example you can educate yourselves with(anyone reading this) is a youtube channel by The entropy system, specifically the video titled "evil to sweet, the truth about evil alters". Or something close to that title anyway. She had a monster alter that turned out to be a 5 year old girl. She pretended to be a monster to seem strong (so to protect). Now, if you are referring to hedwig specifically, you find out that hedwig is actually a protector. In charge of keeping kevin out of the light. That, in a way, is protecting a weaker part from things. Dennis and patricia seem like persecutors. Which are like self bullies, sometimes they take on forms of abusers sometimes not but usually persecutors are misguided protectors. I.e. a system overweight might form a persecutor that bullies the system for eating or even cause eating disorders if an outside abuser has detrimentally abused them over their weight. The round about logic of the brain creating such an alter is that by bullying and eating less, they would lose weight and therefore remedy a situation of being bullied by the outside abuser over weight. These types of alters dont usually realize that logic on their own but over time and therapy, can be made to be more actual protectors.
Osdd 1b here. Same as DID except i don't black out during switches. I go co con (co consciousness) which means im somewhat aware of things but its a different alter fronting (in control, or "in the light" as the film calls it). Osdd 1b systems have amnesia of their traumas but no or very little amnesia barriers between alters daily.
@@xxjosh166xx I've very aware littles can have other roles and agree with what you said too. I'm actually a system myself (DID). What I meant was that littles SHOULD (eventually) only have what I said as their "purpose" since they are just kids. Littles should not have to be protectors or persecutors or even trauma holders (they can be relieved of that role with therapy of course,) for that reason. We have 2 littles in our system, one named Marie who's currently holding trauma, and one who was a sexual protector, Veda. We relieved Veda of her role with much therapy and now she's happily dormant! I have a firm belief that littles should never have to be anything more than children and commented in that mindset. Sorry for being unclear earlier.😅
@@saturnbatista2726What I think is interesting is that littles can be introjects. I never quite know how to describe this but the person born as my brother has DID. I have since claimed all alters of the system as my siblings. There is a little in that system that is an introject of me or more accurately the system's memories of a younger me. I have been always really close with my brother so it is no surprise that their brain created a little me to soothe and comfort the system. And to just be a little brother, like you said his role is to just be a child but in particular his role is to be a supportive brother.
@@alexdoorn234 Yes! I'm glad to hear the relationship you have with your siblings is a good one; people with DID often struggle at the hands of lots of people so them having someone dependable is touching to hear. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I find your siblings' case fascinating. I'm less surprised and more intrigued that the little didn't age up but it makes sense. Especially if you're younger than them. My system has a little that's sort of similar. She's a fictional introject that formed while we were a child but hasn't aged up either even though the person she's based off was an adult. You'd think that they'd eventually become the same age as the person they're based off of but that's not always the case! The brain keeps the alter at the age it needs them to be in order to comfort itself. Truly remarkable what the brain does to survive. I've got an interest in psychology and want to specialize in dissociative disorders/ trauma so I'm sorry again if what I said might have offended you.😅
Rapid switch, for us, happens when the system needs someone to front but can’t find anyone who either can or wants to (as alters can refuse to come out). It’s like cycling through songs on shuffle to find the song you want to listen to. Very tiring and can sometimes lead to massive dissociation where no one is fronting.
Me: who wants to take this one, guys? (Dissociates)
My protective alter: not it (blanks)
My little alter: no thank you (hides)
Me:
Protective:
Little:
Me:
Protective:
Little:
The person I’m actually speaking to: ????
@@elci609 Yes, I was officially diagnosed in 2019. In 2020, we discovered we're polyfragmented.
@Taña Nii Good question. It depends on the situation. When trying to find someone to "front, now!" it looks like a lot of expression changes (Usually with closed eyes and occasionally the body's pose with change as well) as each alter not only wears the face differently but is also already in a specific mood. If we're seated, we slump over like we're sulking. If we're standing we might sway a little.
If it's not urgent, the system scrolls over alters like choosing a smash bros character, so there's not a lot of expression changes.
When someone is chosen our pupils dilate and constrict like a camera coming into focus and our posture changes.
If no one can come out either we'll dissociate and sit/lie down until unconsciousness arrives and we fall asleep; or go on autopilot and go about the day relatively emotionless and disinterested in what people have to say.
This is just how it is with my system though as every system experiences this differently ☺
@Taña Nii I saw someone go through a rapid switch who did get paralysed waist down, but that happened because there was an alter nearby who couldn't walk. It happened in a shopping centre and lasted for over an hour.
Hey, I really hope I don't come off as insensitive, if I do let me know, but...what does it feel like when another alter takes over? Do you remember it afterwards, or is it like you just sort of "switch off" while someone else is in control?
I'm a therapist and certainly no expert on D.I.D. I haven't run across any research that would support this, but couldn't an alter have psychopathology, psychopathy, anti social personality disorder, or NPD? It seems plausible. Albeit extremely rare. Anyway, thanks guys for this awesome vid. I haven't seen Split, but it's now on my radar to watch. I love Dr. Hare's work and research on personality disorders and I specialize in treating victims of Narcissistic Abuse, including Cult victims and domestic violence survivors. It's all about trauma and attachment in family systems. I never would have thought I would be doing this work. It's amazing and I hope to work the rest of my life doing this work, learning from my patients, experiencing life, and trying to work towards healing and making sense of this incredibly complex world we live in.
A year late, but my system has alters with NPD and Antisocial Personality Disorder! When living in environments of extreme abuse, part of the way our brain decided to help cope is to have master manipulators with next to no empathy so that they couldn't be twisted and abused the way the others were. They can be more...eccentric, if you will, but they are a far cry from villains. They just protect us, no matter the cost, because it has very realistically been life or death sometimes where every word is what decided if our life was on the line. With alters like them, it flipped that role, and for once, we weren't the helpless victim in the situation like our littles were.
I believe artists can only do so much. We cannot expect them to be able to explain everything that is real and fictional within just around two-three hours. I think the audience has that responsibility to determine it by themselves. There is a reason why some movies are rated for mature audience.
Well..I was today years old when I learned that OCPD is a thing and that IT is what most people think OCD is...but isn't, so thanks Jono for teaching me something today!
OCD is more like the notifications always being red on your phone right?
Yes! OCPD is a personality disorder that tends to make someone extremely rigid and overcontrolled in their approach to life. Regular OCD is not a personality disorder - it's an anxiety disorder with obsessions, intrusive thoughts, and compulsions. They are different but people get them confused! (I have OCD, but not OCPD) :)
Same.
to sum it up: OCD is what the "godspoken" on the planet of path in _xenocide_ have. OCPD is what marc summers has.
yeah I have autism + OCD which may look like OCPD, but I guarantee I will not come to anyone's house to clean it lmao, I avoid triggers as much as possible
I had a beloved friend with did and man, this movie was the complete antithesis of her as a person. She was functional, bright, and at peace with her system. She once described the day she discovered her system as feeling something about her personality shattering after a traumatic event. I never met any of her alters but I did get a text from one (he was rather polite) after she had a terrible flashback.
You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but why the past tense?
@@santos8468 Oh, nothing terrible! We just lost contact as time went on. She's still alive and doing ok for herself
Whew!
@@kbomb234 For some reason that makes me feel relieved lol, even though I don't know you or your friend 😅
Yeah!! Alters are there to protect, sometimes in a way that is a detriment to the system (such as negative self talk and fear of getting hurt again), but usually meant to be good for the system. :3
I'm not currently suffering from any form of DID right now, but I did experience borderline personality disorder symptoms eariler in my life. I suffer from ADHD and I had associated chronical depressions for a long time. When I was 18-19 I developed very strong behaviorial schemes that acted as different personalities and tended to view the other lines of behavior as being done by another person, I had three of them and at the worst moments it was pretty wild: I could insult and chastise my reflection in the mirror until my facial features changed to better represent the one who was "in control," I changed my voice pitch and had hearing hallucinations. But every "sub-personality" was still a part of a common host, they all shared my memories and perception, and despite some percieved "fighting for control" they never implied they were someone other than me. Now, some six years later, having been through the cognitive behaviorial therapy and just generally having set a lot of things in my life straight, I'm happy to say with confidence that I have a single consciousness inhabiting and controlling my body. Guess I'm lucky to have that.
8:52 its called coconsciousness and its very real. We do it regularly. We usually have 2-3 alters blending at any given moment. It can be fucking exhausting because there's only the one body
we also do rapid switching
As someone with a Master's in Literature I have studied this very subject during my course - duty of the artist x the audience. And the best answer I can give without going on a rant (unless someone is interested in it) is: the responsibility is always yours. If you're the audience, you should consider the responsibility is the audience's. If you're the artist, you should consider the responsibility is the artist's.
So basically... people in general need to be more responsible?
@@lilylopnco That checks out.
Love this. I completely agree.
I'm a bit conflicted about this. Aren't the "responsibilities" involved in the dichotomy two separate things?
Like, the responsibility of the audience is to be critical of the information presented in the art. That is a skill that basically develops by itself when you are aware of it, and it generally isn't required for you to be a morally good person, right?
On the other hand, the responsibility of the artist is to be selective with the information they are presenting, which is more akin to traditional notions of responsibility, like telling the truth, doing what is required of you, etc, which is more usually required for you to be a morally good person. More importantly, you can be fully aware of what is your responsibility and still choose not to do it.
I honestly don't see how you can make people have a moral obligation to be smarter, though I would of course always advocate for those who are tasked with presenting art with questionable parts to remind the audience to be critical.
There is no other responsibility anyone can ever control or take other than their own, no matter their resources. Of course we can all take more responsibility for our actions and how we affect people, but we can never force anyone else to do that-only influence by setting an example.
Trying to control and judge each other has basically made the entire world into the dumpster fire that is social media, so I don’t know how you could remotely disagree with this commenter. No matter what you wish, no matter the “shoulds,” there is no other possibility.
As the host of a system of six, I can say that it _is_ possible to co-front with another alter, but personally, it's really stressful and usually causes headaches. And many years ago, when there were only two of us, there was a switch when my partner got a bit too physical, and our protector-persecutor pushed them away with such force that they said "You are definitely not [host name]; she's not that strong."
I'm not sure your partner is the best for you
@@eliyahmcneill9302 Oh, that relationship is long since over. They were cheating on me anyway and made no attempt to hide it; as I said, it was years ago
@@Cuddleshock so glad, I hope your doing great in life
I'm currently doing trauma therapy and what's called, Internal Family Systems. If we've gone through trauma, we have created "parts" to protect us. This modality helps re-integrate those parts into our core self ❤ It's hard work.
My protectors seem to jump into action before my core self can think of a reaction! Ghaahhh!!!
I'm getting there.
This episode was so interesting! Well done, guys!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I’ve heard of internal family systems. It IS hard work. And goodness, did you know that alters can integrate but then new ones form if your brain freaks out? Okay, so I don’t know of anyone besides me who’s experienced this, but dang. Busy brain. 🤷🏼♀️
Im so glad you had the same reaction as me in terms of disgust in how they portrayed what WOULD BE a great character(s), but NOT with a DID label. Im a therapist myself, specialized in personality disorders. I teach DBT.. so mostly BPD, OCPD, PTSD, CPTSD. I remember watching this movie in theatres with glee, only to walk out extremely angry at the stigmatization and glorification this would project to todays kids, esp this new “self diagnosing” trend. BPD is already so stigmatized and i feel im constantly in comment sections just trying to spread awareness of what it actually entails when some big creator suddenly comes out with having BPD, but describing bipolar disorder. The social contagion with glorifying personality disorders is maddening to me bc i see how much they actually SUFFER daily. I wish so much M Night had taken some measure to separate this character from DID bc it def begun another social contagion of people describing just dissociation symptoms.. or something extreme like in Split. Glad for the coverage to pushback. I empathise a ton with the kids i work with and i get this extreme maternal anger anytime i catch someone trying to self label to use as an excuse to be a bad person. Its inexcusable. Much ❤. Carry on!
I think that Moonknight strikes the balance of responsibility really well.
and i think he reason it works is in large part because the story is from the system's perspective.
it's not about how scary he is to others. it's about how freaking confused he is. it humanizes him more than split does.
I've seen a lot of positive reactions to Moon Knight from people with DID.
i dont think its accurate at all and also a little harmfull.(idk if youre a system, but i have d.id. and these are my thoughts) He does murder people in the show, and psychosis isnt normal a normal comorbidity, and schizophrenia and possession are often conflated with or confused for D.I.D. which isnt good, they are very seperate things. It isnt normal to see your parts or hear them externally, or as a reflection in the mirror ect. And i do personally believe in possession, and in the DSM-5 they clarify it to be a separate thing, but most people dont know that.
my s/o has DID. it's actually really frequent for them to be co-conscious or co-fronting, and when they are they do have mini conversations with each other. rapid switching is a thing too, but alters never have the self clarity they show in the movie- they're just dissociated and can't tell who they are. like someone else in the comments said, it's like shuffling songs till you find one you like.
I am a DID system and this is how it works for us as well
We finally found a way to explain it! Thank you
Reading this is so validating (my system only recently started to self clarify to argue that we are a system if our therapist doubts us like when we said that we have experiences that line up with the experiences of late diagnosed autistics but couldn't access the corresponding memory's at that moment for a then unknown reasons).
You are right about it not being a conscious thing that happens to us. We do not ask to have different personalities, but they step in to get us out of trouble and to protect us.
As a system we are so happy you guys made this video. Its so annoying when talking about this stuff to someone who isn't a system they just say stuff like "I watched Split, I know whats like" or "But in Split it didn't work like that". Finally i have something to send to them whenever they say stuff like that. Thank you from 45 alters who love your content.
Dude! That's like saying you know how to ride a horse because you watched Black Beauty. Sure, in theory you have an idea of how it works. But that is a far cry from actually riding a horse. And the material for the Disney remake wasn't exactly.... Accurate to how riding works. But that's not going to create a stigma against riding. So while it annoys me, I don't take it as personally as something like this. As someone not in a system, it's the best example I could think of.
I have a friend with DID and I'm so glad I hadn't seen any movies like Split when I first encountered (knowingly) an alter. My friend was very high on pain meds from a quite severe neck injury and the alter I met probably showed up when he woke up in massive pain and disoriented from meds. (I had no idea they had DID.) The alter (still don't know their name, they've not chosen to share that with me) was a protector/persecutor and verbally very aggressive. If I'd seen a movie like Split and encountered him I might have been scared. I've gotten to know two alters besides the most often fronting host. I'm very glad I had little in the way of preconceived notions about DID.
I have a general question but do systems have communities with other systems? I've personally never known a system before but as someone with a degree in psychology and a master's in counseling, there was never much focus on systems (except that it's usually in response to childhood trauma and learning the general diagnostic criteria in the DSM) in my coursework due to knowledge on the topic still growing.
@@HouseMDaddict yes, we're in like 3 discord servers for systems and people trying to learn more about them, there are also quite a few youtube channels from systems just talking about their experience if you want some recommendations we'd suggeste DissociaDID and Collective Mind DID, they have very interesting videos
@@PenumbraGhosts thank you for the recommendations! I'll check them out!
Can we talk about how amazing these guys are? Jonathan said he got something wrong and said sorry and clarified, they are so respectful with what every they are covering and they get it right as well. These guys are my favorite people on UA-cam
You know, it's interesting and also sad that we as humans are so bad at this that we give gold stars to people who do it. It's such a simple thing to apologize and admit to being wrong. Yet I would say that the majority of us often can't :( I think we need to do better at teaching this to our children. Why is it so hard? I think your comment is actually a great mirror to hold up to ourselves. There's a reason we need therapists. Seeing this behaviour modeled is a really good teaching mechanism so we can learn how to do it ourselves.
I loved that too. I didn't see the original mistake but did appreciate him explaining what happened, how he was wrong and taking that ownership. This is a great channel. I'm learning a lot from them. Definitely becoming some of my favorite people.
When I watched this movie with fascination I was not offended by the super villain part because...it's a story not someone's life. One day my therapist said you're the most constellated person I've met. I was never diagnosed as did but her comment stuck with me. I am aware of strong parts of me who have not made good decisions ( in times of emotional need) I'm 73 now making less mistakes. But for years in a sense I have explored did and accounts of real people. I greatly appreciate the systems and understand a part of you breaking off in a moment of trauma.
I think it’s on the audience to take whatever they hear or see in any type of media with a grain of salt. I think a lot of the problems we encounter these days is because people don’t bother questioning anything. They take what they hear at face value, all the time. I have friends who think if it’s on TikTok, it’s true. That’s an issue
TwitteX is an absolutely egregious example of this mentality.
As someone with DID, I liked Moon Knight well, but Split made me super mad. Just because it’s so inaccurate and irresponsible in that it gave people all these false assumptions about DID and people didn’t really think “this is a movie, it’s going to be inaccurate” and assumed it was close to how DID actually is. I am so glad that you had a run down of DID at first and came at this movie with as an unbiased view as you can. (Ex. Praising James’ performance because that was admittedly awesome, just the mental health portrayal has turned me off so much)
You guys are awesome. Listening to your audience, paying attention to reality verses fiction, understanding and having other people understand that… Movies are movies and while can be based in reality can vary a lot with details, and not enough people are “skeptical” about movies in that way.
Some DID systems reach a point where themselves and their alters can co-exist and that’s awesome. It takes time and often therapy and a lot of self exploration though. It can be very hard at times.
Now onto what is true and what is not (according to my own experience with this and my research): Co-fronting is a thing! Sometimes one or more alters can influence what is going on and talk to each other through thoughts and impulses and such. And sometimes when barriers are broken it’s possible for two or more alters to be near front and talk to each other and work together on what to do.
And about the “calling the personality to front with his name,” it’s true that alters can have names and be attached to them, and sometimes their name was can be something like a positive trigger, but it is definitely not like it was in split.
And about “fast switching,” it’s less common, but there can be instances where there’s a lot of stimulation and several “triggers” are set off at once which causes two or more alters being compelled to front for safety, comfort, curiosity, whatever.
As I said with my comment! It also can happen when alters run high in emotions, like fright or anger. Co-fronting is a definitely a thing.
@@cerbyruby9928 yes! Thank you for your addition
I hope you don't mind my asking a few questions - I'm fairly ignorant of the realities of DID but genuinely interested.
How much choice do any alters have in when they front? Do they only appear when triggered or can they switch by choice?
How do you refer to your original identity? Do you consider them an alter?
I realise you only represent one system with DID but I'd be interested to hear about your experience if you don't mind sharing.
Just wanted to say thanks for this comment!
How media has portrayed mental health and psychological conditions is largely irresponsible, no doubt. This has certainly caused harm in society, particularly to those who deviate from the mainstream.
I'd like to think that the average person is merely ignorant and don't consciously make connections between poor portrayals of mental health and reality. The poor portrayals unconsciously color our perceptions of mental health. A benefit of the internet is allowing people the chance to understand others' experiences and correct these misconceptions.
I see Hedwig as the hyper-childlike version of Kevin that he could never be from such a traumatic childhood. Whenever Kevin was a child, the abuse stripped him of his playfulness, his curiosity, his ability to make mistakes and learn from them. You could say Hedwig is the personified version of Kevin’s “inner child.”
Age regression right? That's what I do, though I don't believe I have D. I. D.
Yeah, that’s why Hedwig never ages. He’s the safe child.
Also from what i know not all alters tend to or need to have an obvious "purpose" and some systems have whole batch of "littles" (common name for child alters) so yea
I was looking for this comment, I have a child alter as well and she’s there for that purpose for me too. She’s the child I never got to be and all of us are fiercely protective of her
Awesome response.
We are SO HAPPY that you mentioned that some plurals are not seeing it as a mental disorder, because they don't suffer much from it. In our experience, all systems we know have quite some difficulty, and often difficulties specific to DID. It's not easy to live one's life in one body with other people. And the trauma is often still very much influential. But it is important for us to not constantly see it as a mental disorder. It's also just part of who we are. Accepting it is the best way to go, and learning to accept one another within the system. Everyone feels more or less ashamed of their system, but it's no good to constantly feel that. Knowing systems that are functional ('healthy multiplicity') and being functional ourselves more and more, feels very good. We can imagine a future in which we don't have to lose one another to become just 1 person (the idea feels gross). We can imagine a world in which we can be a team that coordinate life together. And one in which we don't need to hide it every day.
Im still not all the way through this but i do want to thank you for speaking on this topic with tact and awareness and an open mind, and a willingness to have a conversation about things you may be right or wrong about, and you acknowledge the importance of how representation can effect how somebody feels in a very real way. Safe spaces to speak can be very rare for systems so i thank you for it.
I always treated Split as fictional and not really a representative of DID but you can't deny that James McAvoy's performance here is amazing. I loved how he gave each persona a personality of their own, they had their own mannerisms, different ways of speaking and even their sense of style is different.
The same here, definitely a good movie when you understand it as a work of fiction. And McAvoy's performance in this was absolutely amazing
I'm glad you had the maturity to do that, and I'd like to hope that most of the average audience does too. However, there's an easy litmus test anyone with DID can do that isn't very reassuring: tell someone you have DID, and see how many of them immediately respond with "Ooooh, y'mean like the guy in 'Split?'"
THAT'S the problem - when movies like that become people's ONLY reference for the disorder. And that's sadly more the norm. The average person doesn't typically go off and do research into every new and 'quirky' concept they see in a movie if it's using a real-life condition as its subject matter -- they assume the movie has done that for them, and is presenting something that's at least based on true events. If you're going to mix fact and fiction for your chosen disorder, you're doing double the harm if all your facts are the relatively 'positive' parts but all your fiction is the negative stuff.
Like Split is a good behind movie, James did a magnificent job with his character, he would literally morph into each personality and throughout the movie, to me when you watch the movie you don't see him you end up seeing each personality that he becomes throughout the movie. But for some reason, some people don't register that even if something is based, not even factual, BASED upon a real life story, if you wanna know more or what something actually is, Google exists, different sites pertaining to a show or movie or article exists. But some how there are people in the general public that don't seem to understand that train of thought even if it's not that complicated.
@@writerinprogress NO NO NO. Your analogy is misguided. If someone with no military experience watches "full metal jacket" and thinks every soldier is like the drill sergeant, that is their own misconception and not the film makers. Give people more credit. Your example is the exception, not the rule.
@@john-vs4vq but our culture is saturated with other information about the military and how it acts. for did it isn't that way, there is a void of information for did should be, so people will fill it with anything. Also, it's much more common that people bully others for having DID, than it is to bully someone for having been in the military. Milltary roles and this mental disorder are in completely different positions.
people are gullible man. it's not that split shouldn't have been made, it's that we just need more representation.
Edit: I don't know if I made this clear. I'm all for the audiences of all things cleaning up their freaking act. So don't say I think the audience is blameless.
I noticed Alan asked a question about conversation between alters: it'll rarely happen out loud (though sometimes the person fronting might say their part out loud), but if internal communication between the two is good, there can be a sort of conversation that, when communication is really good between the two alters, feels kind of like what I have to assume telepathy would feel like: strong thoughts that you can immediately tell don't feel like yours.
man, you said it better than I ever could have, that's exactly what it's been like for me
++
We call these guided thoughts. With our system we mainly communicate through guided thoughts since I myself, the host, have a hard time hearing other people talking. My thoughts are influenced and I think random things or things that do not feel like my own and that's how I know it's someone else. Sometimes I'll hear thoughts in the voices of said alters but it's always very very faint for me. In cases as well, we'll both communicate by talking out loud like what was shown in the movie, too. It all just depends.
That's a really good way to put it; telepathy because you are exchanging words but also sometimes images or emotions with those and all silently in your head.
Though I do sometimes mutter or talk to myself and pets or objects - that is actually from the ADHD ;)
My system came to the point of co-fronting. (Going out at the same time) So it's normal for us to go out at the same time.
Dudes I'm so seriously in love with what you're doing. Thank you for covering this topic! Coming from a popular channel with good reputation and entertaining vibes, this is huge. You're so important for helping to destigmatize the topic of mental disorders, especially the ones that seem tricker and not that easily understandable at first. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for what you're doing!
My bestie and i and some past friends all have DID or a form of it...rapid switching is definitely a thing. Weve been maskng for so long that its hard for us to tell eachother apart sometimes or know whos fronting. I dont think we have blackouts but we do dissociate alot. We look completely different in the inner world than the body. Thank you guys so much for doing this topic and being a safe space for everyone ❤
At first I got really offended when Alan called Avatar The Last Airbender bad but then I remembered there's a movie.
It's really a shame the series is way too long for them to cover, the whole thing is just a gem.
I had exactly the same!! First I thought What's wrong with Avatar? It's freaking prefect! But then I remembered there was a movie remake 😂
There’s no movie in Ba Sing Se
They should anyway, totally recommended, there are so many good lessons there 😌✨
I would love whole episodes on "Dealing with the loss of a mother" etc, and basically family trauma, that would be so so nice
@Charlotte T I'm just saying this as an ATLA fan. The movie just felt so wrong. Lots of epic dialogue cut out, comedy gold parts gone, whitewashed, sokka's personality disappeared, Aang isn't a "fun-loving kid suddenly being given the task to save the world" (which he ran away from), not sure if the actors were directed to take the too-serious-it-became-dull route or they are just that horrible. these are just some of the things on top of my head. I get it, even book 1 alone (which is the only thing they covered judging by the final scenes) would be difficult to compress in a movie-length screenplay. At least please tell a cohesive and exciting story instead of just stringing scenes together to insert an action scene. Bet if I didn't know ATLA beforehand, I woudn't know what's going on. And since Alan must be calling it bad from filmaker stand point, I don't really know what else went wrong.
I just want to express my gratitude to all the systems in the comments sharing your experiences. I may never know what it’s like, but I find it fascinating and a good exercise in empathy to learn about how other people experience life.
Yes, just reading through what the systems have to say about their lives is absolutely mind-blowing.
My brain hurts from trying to understand how this works, kudos to those who live it.
indeed
I think it is a good learning experience for people to have a better understanding of mental illnesses instead of how media portrayed it as it was years ago.
I wish most people were like you and have an empathetic view towards us. Ive mostly stopped letting people know im a system. Ive been fake claimed, gaslit, insulted, laughed at, argued with about what alters can or can't be by persons lacking phd's... more often then acceptance. Someone told me that i was mocking actual systems because i had mentioned i have a fox alter and an ageless ice elemental alter in my system. Mind you, i am a diagnosed osdd 1b system in therapy. You would not believe most peoples hate and ignorance. The amount of people that have tried to "diagnose me correctly" telling me im not a system... im so sick of it. That is why most systems stay covert. Too many people just refuse to accept the reality of our lives. So thank you for your appreciation here.
My friend has DID. When we met he didn’t, but the straw that broke the camels back was when he broke up with his girlfriend. I had to meet all of his alters with different genders, personalities, ages, and memories. I think I’m being a pretty good friend to him and his alters, although some alters were easier to win over than others. And one of the things that helped me gain some awareness was this video and the Anthony Padilla video on did.
how old was he when he realized he had it? because to say that when you met he didnt, means you mustve known each other since early childhood, which is when it develops. what could be possible though, as it is the case for most systems, is to only find out about it way later in life, because systems get created to protect you, and if your "security system" gets outed, it cant protect you as efficiently and can even put you in more danger
As a trauma survivor I do appreciate the perspective in this movie that the trauma survival is a beautiful thing
I'm guessing Hedwigs purpose is from very dark and specific abuse.
Honestly, hedwig was one of the most obvious for me, as to why kevin would need him. Hedwig reminded me of when my life coach/therapist would ask me to divide my personality aspects and one of the common ones that people could tell apart was their inner child. This is your innocence, playfulness but could also be shyness or insecurities. Hedwig is maybe what kevin could have been as a kid, or wanted to be. I interpreted it as kevin keeping his youthfulness alive through hedwig, because his own youth was taken from him. Maybe I'm way off, but I still feel like there are many personalities that make way less sense
You are correct!
Exactly. A childlike personality like Hedwig seems to me like a very obvious (and relatively common) one for someone to have.
It also tracks that the idealized "what I wish I could've been" alter would be the one with the power to take the light whenever he wants.
@@KS-xk2so Just for reference, in case yall don't know yet, that whole "fight for the light" narrative is 100% unrealistic.
Many alters prefer not to front. Those that do, do it on accident or because of a sense of responsibility. Fronting is not a pleasant reward, it's a solemn obligation. (Our little only comes out if he feels extremely safe in the irl environment, otherwise it's not worth it.)
In the case that a little might get excited about something and want to interact with it, they just come out, unless another alter gatekeeps them for their own safety or the safety of the body/system, and even that doesn't always work.
And if they get stopped, they can still play in the inner world. When there's a little, there's usually a caretaker who looks after their needs.
For an entire system to be in competition for the front, or for a little to be desperate to have their needs met, is unheard of. Systems tend towards healthy functionality and are self-correcting. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point, as the purpose of DID is to maintain healthy function.
If the health or dynamic of a system is bad, more splits happen to fill needed roles until it is good again.
Like in our system, things were going good and everyone was getting along, but one of us has uncontrolled anxiety and wasn't getting enough help from therapy sessions, so a new alter emerged who was a therapist, so he could be helped 24/7.
You'll hear similar stories from a lot of systems... when someone is needed, they appear, for the benefit of the body and the system.
For there to be this much discord in a system, it has to be opposite-day DID, where it's supposed to ruin your life instead of saving it. I mean, it's so unrealistic that at this point it would be a stretch to say he actually has the disorder... The surface level elements are accurate, but the internal mechanisms are totally alien to DID.
Alters don't just exist as a pile of needs... We're all given a purpose.... We're born as solutions to problems. In that way, we're blessed, because most people don't know their purpose, be we do, and it's always to benefit the collective. Of course we can be selfish, or disgruntled, or needy... But we're not alone, and we help eachother.
Sorry for the ramblings!
@@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice I was speaking merely in a narrative or storytelling context. Given this movies very inaccurate portrayal of the actual disorder in question, I think arguing about realism is kind of pointless.
my mom loves this movie universe and she could not understand why i was so upset with the DID representation. i was a psychology student at the time and it hurt to see the vilification of real mental conditions and disorders knowing that the majority of people considered mentally ill are nonviolent. i get that it's "just a movie" but why is one personality a perv, another a prim homicidal governess and one a literal monster?
because it's not about mental disorder, but superpowers.....
@@tarksurmani6335 We _don't_ get superpowers with our disorders, as nice as it would be to get them.
@@Alisibeth_Talia212 He didn't either. What's your point?
@@tarksurmani6335 If it wasn’t about a mental disorder it shouldn’t have been a major plot point. If they wanted to make a person with a bunch of different monsters fighting within them they should never have mentioned DID. They shouldn’t have tried so hard to base it in truth. It doesn’t take more than a couple of brain cells to see that.
Because if they didn't have it it would be boring. That's the whole point of a movie, to be interesting. They don't have to be 100% truthful. That's exactly what the guys were talking g about. My belief is that it's the filmmakers job to entertaining but the audiences job to research.
As an AVID movie fan but someone who was taught to think critically, I believe it is the duty of the audience to double check things. To research, to question, to want to understand and if they DON'T want to understand then DON'T take the film (the art) as FACT! I find there are more people who don't believe everything they see on Facebook but decide to believe every psychological disorder on movies or tv. So I stand on the duty of the audience because movies are an art medium, it is a story telling, not a factual attempt at establishing credible reality. (UNLESS that is its DIRECT purpose.)
I am very impressed you are helping open the DID conversation and that you had a lot of response from DID. Even as a psych student (under DSM 5 - which is why I couldn't buy a used textbook in my 2nd year) has really opened my mind to DID more and the community represented.
Thank you both!!!!
Happy I watched this. I’ve had a keen interest in DID. I enjoyed this movie so much, so I definitely liked learning what was accurate and what was not.
Sending love and warmth to those dealing with trauma ❤️
If I remember correctly, James did tones of research and even tried to find someone with DID to interview. He wasn’t able to find someone sadly, but very interesting how he tried so hard to bring these characters to life. It’s so sad that the writers did such a shitty job at research.
I so do not believe he wasn't able to find someone with DID to interview, but I'm glad he did all that research. It is sad that the writers clearly didn't give a s>>>.
I really wish that they'd just made a non thriller film about DID with James as the lead
He's the impressive thing about the film and it could have been a great piece of positive representation for the community
@@ariadnewolf8667 it could've been he was looking for someone with an official diagnosis to cover his bases. Makes it harder to find
"If I remember correctly, James did tones of research and even tried to find someone with DID to interview. He wasn’t able to find someone sadly"
^ gee I wonder why
not many with genuine multiplicity would be inclined to talk to an actor who was part of a movie that perpetuated harmful stigmas to the disorder
@@imitationsofmyself this^^^
I’m glad this one is getting covered! My S/O has DID and his mom doesn’t know. We watched it as a family downstairs and she grew to fear mental illnesses as a result, while not knowing someone with it sat right next to her. We don’t plan on telling her as this family is a bit toxic about mental disorders (even depression/anxiety) but we tried to remind her it’s just a movie. It’s definitely a roller coaster sometimes but not something to inherently fear. I love my S/O and all his personalities and do my best to help guide each one with what they need, whether it’s comfort or being treated simply as a human with real wants/fears.
🙌🏽❤
Im in the same boat as u with my s/o I cant say things get easier because there are alit of misconceptions of did but they do get better I wish u and your s/o the best of luck/g
Thats tough I hope they came come around to be more accepting
If you are dating someone with DID, isn't that like dating a bunch of people, except that you don't get to choose them and have to date a pre-made group? What if you don't love some of the alters?
@@greywolf7577 It really kind of is. In my situation one of them was upset because they couldn't see an ex girlfriend (Oddly with the same name as me) but the rest had moved on. I don't consider myself to be dating three of them tbh since they are "underage" (4, 11, 15) but we are like friends! I do "date" his oldest alter (21) though and it really is like dating two different people that are very similar. I treat them the same though. I know it's probably strange to consider but I got used to it surprisingly fast, haha! In my experience even the ones I didn't like we have learned to coexist. I hope this all makes sense.
I have recently discovered and binged pretty much your entire channel over the last couple months. For what its worth i absolutely love what you do. The therapy through movies is a breath of fresh air for me. Thank you.
I am looking forward to you breaking down Identity with John Cusak. One of my favorites. I would also enjoy watching the psychology of the antagonist in more Robin Williams movies. 'What dreams may come' perhaps???
Welcome, thanks for your suggestion. Thanks for watching!
I personally think that even though the responsibilities are on both artist and audience’s sides if the artist seems to put no thought in whether or not they put some REALLY harmful stereotypes in their SLIGHTLY changed reality the backlash and danger that comes out of that piece of art is definetly, at least mostly, on them.
the sports psychology thing is one thing i liked about Moonknight. One alter thinks they can't fight, but when put in a situation where he had to, he realizes that the body knows how to fight because of the other alter
I just want to say how amazing it is that, without scrolling very far down, I have already seen over a dozen comments from DID systems. I think it's beautiful how diverse human experience can be, and I am so happy that this community is inviting to so many people.
I'm so glad that this movie and its total inaccuracy was addressed and talked about on this channel, it was a great episode. I am, however, very curious about Alan's comment on A:TLA's messaging. Considering it basically forms the entire positive part of my childhood lol
About the switching personality part : there are 2 different conditions.
1. Dissociative fugue - shift between identities may take weeks to months
2. DID/Multiple Personality Disorder - shift is frequent, sometimes even within seconds.
So yeah, it was depicted correctly in the movie as far as the switching between personalities is concerned.
About the strength part, one personality may have reduced perception of pain in brain, and may lead to a show of extraordinary strength (way more than the primary personality) but since the muscle fibres are destroyed, as soon as there is a switch to other personality, the person may start shouting and crying, as his perception for pain may return back to normal.
The thing with DID is that primary personality is usually unaware of other personalities unless there's a clue left, while the secondary personalities are aware of primary personality.
Correction, 1) dissociative fugue is a symptom where one identity/person with dissociative amnesia travels or wanders unconsciously, which leaves the identity/person in an unfamiliar setting with no memory of how they got there. This symptom usually happens with conditions caused by severe trauma and DID. 2) Rapid switching can be a symptom for some with DID, not all. However, DID itself does not mean rapid switching.
Full transparency, I’m the host of a DID system and my stomach dropped when I saw this in my subscriptions. You guys are so wonderful but I’ve seen so many bad takes, including from other professionals who think that it’s not possible for a system to communicate or be aware of each other or be happy. Very glad I bit the bullet and clicked. I will say that cofronting (two or more alters controlling the body) and coconsciousness (two or more alters about to be near and communicate with whomever is fronting) are both fairly common things in some systems. We are cocon more often than not.
Also props to you for saying it’s not scientific to say that correlation is definitely causality and that science is ever evolving and we need to leave the door open for that.
I have a friend with DID and I understand it's more like 90% is peaceful and such, then there's one troublemaker who cause chaos inside and out.
Is that a common thing or...?
@@Roadent1241 insomuch as any neurotypical friend you have may have certain subjects that deeply offend them that you have to learn to avoid, or certain hobbies that you find disgusting, or something bizarre they really nerd out about. There are some points that you and another person just don’t get along, for one reason or other.
For them, it basically sounds like a person you dislike, living among a system you generally do like. Maybe think of it as an annoying sibling that has to tag along because their parents aren’t home yet.
But basically, it’s only as common for DID systems as it is for non DIDs.
@@JaggerG Fair enough, thank you for answering.
Thank you for your comment. Forgive my ignorance, does cocon mean co conscious?
@@SarahEMorin yep. Good thing to ask. Clarifying knowledge is key :-)
Major kudos to James McAvoy, for managing to shift causally from one chilling persona to the next, giving each their own unique personality and quirks.
He's an exceptional actor and always will be. The big shame for me is everyone will always focus on this multiplicity role and miss one of his earliest proofs of mastery. Inside I'm dancing. It's once again a role that shouldn't really been his where an actor with mobility needs would have been better. However you can tell he actually researched that role. I'm not even sure you can get it in America but if you can do. It's a fascinating character study
@@Firegen1 I've been a big fan of James McAvoy since Children of Dune in 2003. What a treat it was when he broke out in Hollywood with one stellar performance after another. I'll have to look into Inside I'm Dancing.
@@melanie62954 you put that beautifully. I'm ovedjoyed for him for how much his career has grown and the fact he truly challenges himself as an actor. I am gonna lightly forewarn that Inside I'm Dancing does have some pretty crap misogyny on how the one of the lead female characters is treated. I find it kind of helpful in a way cos it goes smack into the assumption that misogyny is only perpetrated by some people or people in places of extreme power, rather than cultural issue that can pop up anywhere. But it could be triggering as it is a plot point. I definitely would still recommend it as a watch.
He's just a talented actor. I loved him in Arthur Christmas.
This episode was increibly helpful for someone whose never really seen DID in real life, or personified in film. I never had misconceptions of them being evil or something, but i could never fully grasp things like "they are X amount of people in one body", or how plenty would refer to themselves in the third person. Super fascinating stuff from an empathetic level, it helps in understanding, a standout episode IMO, even without having seen the movie.
8:45
Yes it can happen actually. It's called co-fronting and it can be extremely disorienting for the alters experiencing it.
i think the big issue with the Exposition scene is that it’s dumping a lot of real information about the condition RIGHT next to the fictionalized, horror movie stuff - it’s a scripting and structural issue that REALLY should have been caught by someone like a sensitivity reader, or the like
THIS! This is exactly the reason why that movie is so irresponsible and what shifts the balance from viewer responsibility to author responsibility for me. There is nothing inherently wrong with making up fantasy stuff that relates to or exagerrates conditions that exist in real life, but they shouldn't try to come across as the real thing. When you do an exaggerated/twisted fictional DID in a setting that is entirely fantasy, like Gollum in Lord of the Rings, or a semirealistic setting that clearly has elements of supernatural and/or science fiction injected into it, like the classic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, it really is the viewers' fault if they think that was how DID works in real life. But if you present a character who is supposed to be a contemporary real world expert on the real world condition and talks about it in a way that comes across as competent (like using professional terminology and presenting bits of information that actually are correct mixed up with the nonsense), that is very much manipulating the audience to take at least that bit serious, even if over the top obviously unrealistic elements come into play later.
@@chrisrudolf9839 Exactly THIS! Especially since I've seen, several different systems say that their lives were negatively affected by this movie and its portrayal of DID. I never heard that about Gollum. That in tandem with how little known DID was at that point I think the responsibility for how this movie was received is on the creator of the film. DID at that point had (and somewhat still has) an air of "awe" or "fear" around it. So audiences are far more likely to believe some of the things in this film than, say, a movie about depression, which while still not fully understood by the general public has become a lot more common knowledge. If someone creating a film has a possibility of hurting an already hurting group of people, then they should take a step back and think, is this really something I want to do. And I say this as a creator myself that it is our responsibility as creators to recognize the power that fiction or nonfiction has and create, but create wisely and thoughtfully.
@@AnnamatopoeiaArt It has another problem, now realistic things in the movie are taken as fake as well, because so much of it is fake and they sound weird to people.
YES! This is exactly why this movie is so dangerous, because people who don't know the first thing about DID aren't able to tell what's fact and what's fiction!
But that's exactly what makes it an excellent science fiction movie. You cannot make a science fiction movie without real facts, it would end up being just an ode to the absurde and that's a completely different genre.
We know that Virtual Reality exists, but we don't assume that The Matrix is real.
We know that there's ways to create suits that can fly, that doesn't mean Iron man exists.
What about 2012 movie? Climate change IS a thing, but 2012 was not the end of the world.
The ability to wave fiction with facts is what makes science fiction movies so thrilling to watch, and you know it's a good science fiction when you can immerse in that world and feel it real (even if it's obviously not, because it's a movie). Split is also listed as a terror film... which we ALL know what does it mean: NOT REAL (unless it has a specific tag that says "based on real facts" or something like that, that usually is also a lie)
Artist are not documentarists and should not be held accountable for those who don't understand fiction.
There is something called "co-consciousness" where identities are consciously aware of each other. It's more than just knowing that the other exists within the system. This is how my system operates, and it took me years to find a psychology book directly focused toward dissociative disorders that acknowledged it when every counselor was telling me I was making it up for attention.
i’m sorry you weren’t believed
would it be ok if i asked what the book was? if not it’s all good hope you have a great week
@@HealthyObbsession Intensive Psychotherapy for Persistent Dissociative Processes by Richard Chefetz talks about it some and gives a good foundation for understanding how dissociation works (recommend reading before The Haunted Self unless you have a strong understanding of the machinations of dissociation). The Haunted Self by Onno van der Hart, Ellert Nijenhuis, and Kathy Steele mentions it specifically. I haven't read all of The Haunted Self yet, but, so far, it has been pretty accurate to what I experience while providing more detail. They're both pretty heavy in context of technical terms as they're mainly geared toward those who have studied psychology, neurology, and other intersecting fields, but they've definitely been worth the read. (Also, trigger warning for both books, as they include excerpts from people about their traumas.)
@@lyulf thank you so much for replying I really appreciate it hope your having a great night
you are making it up for attention
it's amazing how these tiktok kids think every single psichiatrist is wrong until someone says what they want to hear
@@softbread2073 In case you didn't know, the books are written by psychologists who are experts in the field of dissociation/DID, whereas the counselors who said I was faking were not even trained in PTSD. Who are you to refute the experts? Also, I am not a kid, and I do not have tiktok.
Take your invalidation and ignorance somewhere else.
I had a devastating experience that I blamed on my constant efforts to make others happy and try to make everyone like me. So I changed my personality completely by simply saying the blunt, honest truth, in the starkest, bleakest way possible. From my perspective, I was actively trying to hurt peoples feelings and make them hate me. The shift in my personality was like an entirely different person. The longer I acted out that person, the more that it ceased to be an act. It began to change the way that I thought about things. Rather than just trying to pass judgement on others and to hurt their feelings, I became deeply empathic and my aggressive sharing of the truth started coming from a passionate desire to protect others from having painful experiences like I allowed to shatter the fabric of my personality. I became the one friend who loves you enough to risk losing you as a friend by saying that you need to hear, nobody is willing to tell you. To my shock, I suddenly had far more people trying to be my friend than I ever thought possible. People started actively seeking out my opinion on things, where they previously ignored me. What started as me creating a new personality to hide behind, eventually showed me another side to people. Over time, I’ve learned to embrace the lessons I learned from the experience to try to be a better person. But I don’t think that I could have learned those lessons without fully becoming that different person. Merely saying something blunt a few times would only have served to make a few people angry. The consistent behavioral change was what made friends realize that they would only ever get the truth from me. Choosing to become someone else for awhile can help you to heal the emotional scars that your original self carries.
I have met 3 systems in my life, and I had first found out about DID from a heartbreaking book written by Trudy Chase and the troops.
I love that you dont only review movies that handle thing well or correctly. You are addressing unhealthy and damaging films. That is so important. Thank you.
The 9 year old is a personality that represents the desire to preserve a joyous, innocent childhood they were deprived of. Many systems have "littles" as they call them.
That's what I figured. It's a desire to let your inner child out, in a world that usually squeezes that out of us. I was actually surprised they seemed confused about that. That actually seemed like the most readily understandable personality to me. I feel like if I had DID, that'd be my first personality developed. I just want to be a kid again and watch movies and cartoons and play all day. Screw adulting. It's just work and money and stress and drama and politics and realizing that movies aren't realistic!!!
That’s really fascinating, cause this episode helped educate me a little more about DID (not that I EVER took the movie’s depiction as gospel or anything)
i was a screenwriting major in uni so my personal belief is that it’s the duty of the audience to make the distinction between fact and fiction/fantasy. if you’re taking all media at face value, whether that media is film or news, that’s a failing on your part and filmmakers/screenwriters are allowed to use real life concepts as narrative tools even if it deviates from what people understand to be true. this all being said, i can understand and appreciate that a movie like this can be very damaging for people with DID, who have to deal with people only relating their system to characters like this one. this is why media literacy is so crucial and it’s seriously lacking in many people.
I know a system, and they are all super sweet. Hard on themselves for confusing others but it’s a bit of a learning curve. And they are all super sweet. I might not agree with some of the people in the system, but all in all, they are no different than other people, just that there is more of them.
Thank you for explaining the difference between OCD and OCPD. I have OCPD and I struggle to explain the difference and now I know how to explain it simply. 😊
You dont have to answer if you dont want to, but what is ocpd specifically like for you?
I have OCD and I wish I had a dollar for every time some rando thought that meant OCPD.
@@tiph3802 Period
@@tiph3802 urgh, for real! even my step mum got them confused when I first got my diagnosis - "if you really have OCD, you wouldn't let your room get this messy" 😒
As someone with OCD, having to explain that no, I'm not obsessed with cleanliness is extremely annoying, I feel your struggle
My partner has DID. Her multiples can share "the light"/"focus"/"what have you". I think up to 4 at once, but they're all very closely related to one another (quadruplets). And focus can shift very quickly, depending on circumstances.
Furthermore, calling the name of the original personality can pull that personality's attention, which is generally why we don't use it. (She voluntarily chose to leave "the light", as she's aware alters are meant to help her cope and she wasn't coping either way. We use her middle name for legal things as much as we can.)
Has she thought about legally changing her name, or is there a chance that her original personality might want to come back at some point when she feels ready?
There's no original personality with did
hi i was wondering about people with did and dating, how does it work? are you in love with all of the alters? are they all in love with you?
@@willbyers_clizzy Do you know how poly relationships work?
It's the same here, the person who commented might be in love with one alter, and the rest of them consent this, that's all
I hope your partner gave their consent to share that information. If not, please ask them and remove that comment if necessary. It might not be safe to leave it, especially if they did not give consent. It’s okay to share your personal struggles and feelings. Having DID is not easy, and neither is having a partner with DID. I feel that you’ve shared their personal information, hence writing this comment.
P.S. I’m using “they” because I am not sure if all of the members the partner’s system use that pronoun
Rapid switching is absolutely a thing, especially during a high-stress situation. This happens to me, and it causes massive headaches and disorientation - for me anyways. The thing about systems is that they're all so unique. But, rapid switching is a thing many systems experience.
As for audience vs. artist, I think it's more nuanced than just saying most of the responsibility is on one or the other. In the case of a condition like DID that is so highly misunderstood today, I would argue that the artist has a higher responsibility to portray a condition accurately.
My name is Seraphina and I am a member of a D.I.D System. As an alter whos part of a three person System, I was the first to manifest after my Host. My roles in the Rose System are Protector, GateKeeper, Memory Holder and Trauma Holder. As the Protector and GateKeeper of the System, my role is to keep my Host safe from any threats outside the body and any possible negative alter manifestations within our headspace. That is where the role of Gatekeeper comes into play.
I do agree that the problem for me isn't the system, it's the unresolved, buried trauma that keeps resurfacing, it's the poor internal communication, it's the difficulties accepting one another because of shame and blame associated with the actions of certain parts. If we could have help unburying everything, if we had a place to just be ANGRY without being afraid of scaring people or upsetting people or triggering people... just a place to scream and break some dishes, not hurt anyone. If we could express ourselves without fearing shame and judgment. All this buried rage, buried pain, buried trauma. All this inside that we can't re-experience alone, at least not safely. More than anything, I want them all to stop hurting. I want us all to stop hurting. I want the little ones to stop crying, I want the memory holders to not have to hold those memories alone anymore. I want us to be able to work together fluidly, not out of fear or within the confines of exerting extreme control over our emotions. I want us to enjoy the rest of our life. Right now, we can't live. We're just existing. I want us to live.
Sending your system all my warmest wishes. I hope you find your safe place to feel & express soon. Everyone should live.
I am sorry for your pain. I would like to strech a hand and offer to hold yours so that you'd know you're not alone. I don't know what you tried, but I believe therapy is the place where people have space to resurface the wounds and heal them. Finding a therapist that knows DID is hard if not impossible. We got a therapist that specialises in family therapy and foster kids. So kinda has experience with various childhood traumas and dealing with several patients at the same sesion. A family is kinda like the system too. Hope this helps.
Listen, I, a survivor of childhood trauma, have tried scream therapy, conducted by licensed professional clinicians, in individual, couples, and group settings. It is not therapeutic--for me at least--and felt highly unsafe and damaging. All it did was surface the pain all at once to the conscious mind so that it was agonizing for several hours. It did not resolve, prevent, or lessen the "regular" pain surfacing at intervals after those experiences.
I've heard of rage rooms, where people can pay to go smash plates like you mentioned. I don't know how common they are because I've only heard of one and it was in the LA area because they have every experimental thing out there, but it might be worth a try if there's anything similar near you. I just hope you all stay safe, take every step as slowly as you need to. If members of the system hold trauma nobody else knows about, being destructive might trigger something that everyone else doesn't know about. I am not a system myself so I don't know what communication and awareness is like between alters beyond what I've seen systems explain online. I just genuinely hope you're all being as safe as possible and being kind to yourselves and each other. Trauma is very hard to work through, but nothing is ever impossible when you want to accomplish it. I wish your system luck in your recovery journey!
🤍
James McAvoy is absolutely incredible actor, the way he changes everything about himself to bring these personalities out, like you can look at him and see the different characters. Master class.
The accents too. He had a natural accent like my own, West Coast Scottish, and the fact he can switch SO quickly between (what I think was) a Boston accent, to proper English, then back again, while neither is his natural one blows my mind 😂
Obviously part of acting, but THE SKILL
When I’m in therapy and they bring back deep stuff it happens like this: I tell her I can’t, she pushes a bit more, then I scream into a pillow and then I get very calm.
I was friend with a system and sometimes the one who was talking said "you know, I am talking to you, but I feel like this other member of the system is also influencing how I behave, etc''. Sometimes the limits between each identities are not that well defined. I don't know if you can say that the two identities are both present at the same time, but they seem to sometimes influence each other. that's maybe not accurate for every system, but this is how they explained it to me
they described it really well
James McAvoy is such a brilliant actor, I just wish this movie were more responsible with the subject matter.
I think the point of the movie is to make a twist on something realistic. Maybe it would been better to make a huge label before the live start stating that the movie is not accurate and different from reality. Or something in the movie that state that James McAvoy it’s an anomaly and nothing like him has ever happened before 😅 I’m not sure. The movie itself it’s entertaining but it’s just a movie people should not take seriously. It’s like comparing Star Trek to NASA
@@kay-jay1581 and I completely get that. like that’s all I’m saying is that they could’ve been like he’s an anomaly and that IMO would have been (for me) solid. When it comes to some audience members being ignorant of disabilities, mental health, or social issues, it’s unavoidable. I just would hope that films try to make it a little more avoidable. I’m legally blind, and people will seriously ask me about the movie Daredevil. DAREDEVIL!!!! 😶😐🫥
Hi!! Aberrant System here-- Co-fronting or co-consciousness happens a lot in systems. I've seen it happen in people with DID and it happens quite a bit for those of us with OSDD-1B since it's a lot easier to!
Thank you for making this video guys, it helps that this criticism of specifically the DID representation is out there!
How would you describe a Aberrant System? I have never heard of it and although I could google it I kind of want to know how you would describe it.
@@dontburstmybubble686 I think it's a name they've given to themselves?
thanks i needed someone to say this because i wouldn't know how to explain it any better than you did, co-fronting just happens so naturally that it's something very hard to explain to people who don't know anything about it
@@dontburstmybubble686 it's just their name
I'm so so glad co-fronting is normal omg.
When it comes to the whole "can more than one identity front at the same time" YES. Another system here, have been in ongoing therapy for over 10 years and can definitely say this is possible. Co-conciousness is a very real thing with DID.
this has been a very, very good video. I've known "about" DID all my life, but the closest experience I've had with the topic outside of media is when AimKid (a fantastic animator) began posting about their DID experiences on twitter. it made me uncomfortable & nervous, reading their posts & others where the topic was presented not as Scary Voice In Your Head, but as very safe & comforting. it made me scared that I had DID, even though I understood so little. but I've learned a lot here, and now I don't feel that fear at all, because it's not scary, at all. the line about mental disorder just being a normal brain function just taken to an extreme, and eapecially, ESPECIALLY the talk on how you're a little different to everyone, but you're still the same you, and that being just how normal people are, was amazing to hear. I'd sometimes feel a lot of tension over my perception of the way I was being conflicting with my internal idea of how I should be, worrying I was a fraud or just acting & manipulating people into liking me, instead of seeing it as just Feeling The Vibe. the video itself, and @clarehastings903 's comment, particularly the line, "You do not have multiple personalities; in effect, you have less than one." has done a whole lot to better my understanding of my own mind, and has healed a lot of pain I've held onto, so I'd like to thank the video and thank all of the commenters for sharing their own knowledge on the subject 💖
Hi, I have DID :)
We can absolutely front with more than one alter at a time. its called co-fronting. Basically someone is sitting in the pilots seat and the other person is co-piloting. Or they "borrow" the other person's skills or abilities and stuff.
We don't do it super often, but we have a few disabled alters that rely on co-fronting partners to see or hear or sometimes walk and stuff.