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The Scapegoat is the "Avoidance Pawn". The problem is as Family Scapegoats, we deeply love people who will never love us back. Thank you so much for this message. I really needed to hear this today. You are appreciated!! We are the Keepers of Integrity. 💜
It took me awhile to figure out I was the scapegoat because my parents loved to rave about me to other people. Ofc they were worse behind closed doors but you get used to that. Looking back now, especially after now spending time with actual mature adults, I realized I was a wall to project everything onto, and a tool to use for their own ego. No one needs to live like that
The scapegoat is the scapegoat because we're the ones who see the BS and the narc hates that you know what they are. Proud scapegoat here! Embrace their idea of you because their idea of you fears the hell out of them. Dont react to their nonsense, they love that. My pat answers to their nonsense are: I'm sorry you feel that way, I've got a million things to do. Have a great day, and then I hang up the phone and laugh my ass off. I've learned to be unattached from their weirdness. Dont take them personally. If Mary was born in your position in the family instead of you, then Mary would be the scapegoat.
@@aubreygomez89 I laugh when things blow up in other family members faces I feel bad but can't help it I remember when they all turned on me in high school when I really needed them
Ok, but what if he/she is your boss? Your neighbour? Director of the music academy where you want to study bcos there are good teachers but mr narc director does everything to annoy you and prevent you to get forward in your study and tells bad things about you, and get people who like you at his side, etc? You cannot do anything in my opnion. He takes advantage of his power position as director, boss, etc.
It's interesting...after my father passed away (he and I were close) I became the family scapegoat. This was facilitated by my mother who is a narcissist and jealous of me. Finally, I moved about 2,000 miles away and have remained there. My 3 other siblings remain in the Midwest and my mother still triangulates things. I have formed friends here who I consider my "family". We are supportive & loving toward each other. Here I am at 69 years old still "working" on things.
This move helped you so much, i'm sure. I was in safe distance, but came closer because 'the family' decided that we siblings have to do something to take care of the parents. At this point, i should have trusted myself and refuse to leave my new hometown. Many decisions i did after were also influenced by trusting other family members more than me. My participation has developed into a nightmare. That's a lesson for life. I realized, that it was only me who was expected to be flexible. And instead of using the flexibility like you and go away, i did the opposite and got trapped in the most unflexible prison one could imagine. Shit happens. Happy working for all of us scapegoats 😊
When I read your post I got goosebumps. My Mother passed away after a long battle with Alzheimer’s. I started noticing anger directed at me from my Father and then he publicly humiliated me at my Mothers memorial service. I was so hurt, angry, devistated etc…I prayed for wisdom and I believe the Lord led me to learn about Narcissist family patterns and things started to make sense. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone and I am so sorry that you have experienced this but so happy you found peace. I am also planning to move thousands of miles away.
Yes childhood is a hostage situation and we are trained since birth. So it feels very clumsy to begin to change and it causes an escalation of bad behaviours in response from the other people... but there is no other way, than to start.
Those who experienced the scapegoat feeling... hats off to you. You survived, because you are the toughest. Believe me they knew it to the core of the hardest part of their body. Today, after decades of emotional torture... i understood, I survived because i feel pain of others. They survived because i took their emotions on priority... they showed me their real feelings. They moved on like i never existed. Then i cried and remembered my childhood troubles... i understood why feeling of emptiness prevailed through out my life... i feel relaxed, they will never come back. "My parents".
I've been scapegoated by my family all my life this is very helpful. Scapegoating also involves character assassination. Trust me on that one. Great synopsis and "auditory" visualizations of what this is. So many teachable moments! So many identifiers. Thankyou Jerry Wise
Excellent Excellent Excellent!!! God Bless you Jerry Wise. I am almost 58 years old, coming from a Polish Roman Catholic family of 6 kids in Milwaukee WI. I’m #4. I went no contact in 2011 & moved to Central coast California. My son, who is now going on 35 years old, has just recently been able to see & understand the whole mess, and has too relocated to the west coast. But for God, I M building a relationship with my son again !
I'm 59 years old and come from a Roman Catholic family of six children too with a good father but a nasty narcissistic neglectful mother and I only escaped 6 months ago and it's so sad. It's just me and my son and I'm grateful for my son but I'm dealing with so much anger because I didn't move away from this family 30 years ago like my one brother did. He's the only one that is free having to deal with my life being stolen because of my evil mother is very hard when I'm almost 60 years old
Yes my daughter bought into the Golden Child image of my sister and her children for a while. Now she's starting to understand the cruel dynamics of that "fun" family, with all their toys, witty sayings, and flashy, abrupt mannerisms.
My parents always called me the “spoiled” child. The one that needed too much and took away too much time. I remember the gazes of contempt from relatives for being the troublemaker. However, I recently read my teachers evaluation as a young girl. I was quiet, creative, conscientious and compliant. It took me a while to realize that being called spoiled was a form a scapegoating. I have changed my first name. This helped me to change the dynamics with family and friends.
I remember those contemptuous looks from extended family. So hurtful and confusing. I now know they had been told lies about me. I was a small child. So cruel 😢
After my parents passed away several years ago, I completely disconnected from the rest of the toxic family…best decision of my entire life…now I am finally understanding it all and healing
I was always quiet and introverted also people picked up on my high sensitivity because I turned red in my cheeks yet my family got to label me trouble maker and instigator huh? 🤷
Im the scapegoat in my enmeshed family. My sister was the golden and then invisible child, she died. Im still the scapegoat. Recently started to detach but parents keep trying to put me back in the role. Whatever i do its still a problem. Even if i stay calm its a problem. I happen to be living with them currently which makes it worse. Thanks to your videos..i started to see the enmeshment .
16:09 Authentic and genuine people make sense. You know exactly why they are doing what they are doing because they are transparent. There is no mismatch cause and effect make sense. He hit is thumb with the hammer and he said ow. What I have learned is if you can't determine immediately the why or find yourself wondering or if you are trying to figure anything out then STOP. If you have to figure out or puzzle over any behavior or action then 99% of the time manipulation is in play and you can take that to the bank. If you are really struggling look at the outcome. When you know who the outcome benefited you can infer the motive. L'Chaim!
I'm a scapegoat and my mom was talking about her friends son who she said is nothing but trouble and I was like omg my mom is now scapegoating someone elses kid
Same, I am too reactive. Not even in the way I realize. Even just getting sad is enough. I need to not react when I hear my mothers tales to my siblings. As of right now I don’t look good but that’s okay I can work from here.
23:53 In my case it would not matter how calm I was, they would try to incite more because they wanted a reaction i was refusing to provide, when I would not respond they way they wanted to then they would just make up a story where I did. I have looked at it this way. There are two kinds of people those who feel emotion and those the use emotion for an agenda. I am grateful that I am able to FEEL the entire spectrum of emotions. I do not use emotions as a tool to hurt others and I am so thankful that I am not a person who would hurt others and am the person who can feel pain. I would rather be feeling pain than inflicting or causing pain to others. L'Chaim!
It was the same for me. They tried to incite a reaction from me many times. However, when you manage to maintain calm and be self-differentiated like Jerry advises, I tell you they will lose interest in you. Imagine how being self-differentiated is to a narcissistic parent who wants to be 100% enmeshed with you! It's shocking, off-putting, and uncomfortable. They won't want anything to do with you and would instead seek the help of the other adult children to feel better. (that's what my narcissists do anyway).
I think once you are assigned the role of scapegoat you cannot get out of it. I agree that even if you are non-reactive they will just make up lies for their smear campaign.
I was mentally abused for 50 years. So tired of the negativity. I dont care what they think of me. I live in the light of loving myself and other innocents. I was a scapegoat as an adult within my ex husband and two kids. No contact with everyone in my family except my grown daughter. I divorced him 3 years ago. 😍
It’s hard to go through all that, take care of yourself. “Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist” Workshop Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time On Zoom Topics: The Illusions of the Narcissist The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists Living in the War Zone 7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist 10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have And more… Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos. Q & A Role Plays Volunteer participation You will receive the recorded workshop You will receive the notes for the workshop www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
12:14 When it happens in childhood it is so destructive. Children are like dogs emotionally because they are dependent on those who are caring for them to survive. As a child you "feel" shame just like a dog does when talked to in the "bad dog" tone. Even if the dog did not do anything wrong the dog still feels like he did and crouches in submission with his tail between his legs and averts his eyes. So even when we KNOW we did not do anything wrong it won't protect us when we are children. When we were being fussed at or accused of something we "felt" like we did wrong even if we didn't and that is hard to process and understand from an adult perspective. L'Chaim
Thanks for the video. I've recently gone on vacation with my family. Observing the dynamics after watching your videos was interesting. I'm a scapegoat. When my mother and my sister had a serious fight, suddenly I was allowed to spend time with each of them! I knew the reason. Still, when asked about my personal life I said a bit too much and it was immediately used against me. I felt that even though I was calm, avoided conflict and minded my own business, while they were fighting rudely, went silent for days etc., it was me who was hated, somehow. So yes, this is a role. It doesn't matter that you are nice, do not fight and accept others with calmness and internal happiness. They chose me as a scapegoat and I saw this wasn't my fault. I noticed my mother didn't listen to me and denied the real things I said and did. She didn't make sense! Wow. Real coca cola. I suppose they won't change. I will try not to give them any personal info in the future, though. And have less contact.
Sadly this is becoming so common. I took my kids out of public school because of dysfunctional society and teachers and kids. Kids can’t behave or not get overstimulated in this world! So much dysfunction...
From what I see most family members have no idea they scapegoated us and that we internalized the role so what do we do how do we get through to them if their denial always takes over?
In my experience, at work, it is more a matter of others finding a weakness, exploiting it and when the influential members of the group start to be abusive they will get away with it by having discredited you in the prior. Others will then see they can abuse you with impunity and join in. Hence you are kicked down the ladder to become the scapegoat of their errors as well.
@@kahlodiego5299 I pray you find peace and happiness. Please don't lose hope--stay in the fight. Continue improving and caring for yourself. People will come along the way to give a helping hand and you will eventually overcome your troubles.
I've been a scapegoat in many, many situations, at work as well as in the family. I have a sibling who keeps this going as best she can, and she gaslights and attempts to make me feel inherently shameful, projects her own distress on me and tries to make me feel like I am "the problem" when she can't point to anything I am doing wrong. Her favorite power move is to keep me out of her life except when SHE needs me in her life, like when she wants to play "happy family" for a big holiday. She has people she works with and her shallow social contacts fooled with her false face of eager and helpful, but I feel very alienated by the brittleness and hollowness I see in the superficial smiles. It's heartbreaking. Past the confusion now and also the anger. Trying to understand that she is very emotionally unwell, and doesn't know how to be authentic or have an authentic relationship. I'm the whipping boy. Disconnecting!!!!! With regret, but I can't "do" a relationship by myself.
As a child I learned not to react. To just be quite and do what I needed to do to survive. Calm was my middle name. I stopped over sharing about my life. "Focus back on them." Love it. Thank you Jerry! 😍
From the BeGood4000 channel I heard a word / concept that I never even considered before or heard of. It's called "OVERSHARING!" Is taking a while to DEPROGRAM this one for myself, but I'm learning it without overdoing it
Excellent. Thank you. I discovered and became the scapegoat after my mum passed. The point about family disfunction is correct. A vacuum was created, and I became the focus of their ill-health. They pushed buttons only to created the new born family scapegoat! It's been shocking, but stepping back I can see things very clearly. Protect yourself first!!!! I have stopped the supply once I realized the situation going on. I've had to learn alot quickly.
Thank you so much for this, Jerry. These videos help me understand what has happened to me my entire life with my family. I went no contact with the last living narcissist in my family (an older sibling golden child). As a result I’m finally healing and becoming my true self. These videos are so valuable.
Great video very helpful! I was my family scapegoat all my life. I've gone no contact with all of them now. It seems I've taken on somewhat of a scapegoat role in my new community though- I keep to myself yet I am aware there are toxic people spreading rumors about me. I bumped into them shortly after moving here and we pretty much sniffed each other out real quick. I recognized them as quite narcissistic and they recognized me as codependent with poor boundaries and away we go!
I know I said this before but I absolutely love your examples on how to handle difficult conversations without walking away depleted. You taught us how to handle these difficult conversations without losing it and keeping our integrity.
11:17 I want to look straight at them and say "Well, whoever told YOU to just be yourself gave you some really bad advice! " because being themselves is exploiting and invalidating others. Thank you JerrytheWise. glad to finally be able to contribute in some way. Keep up the good work. You work matters more than words can express. You are a generous man and you have always been a positive source of inspiration for all. Your work has made a difference in this world. You have amazing insight,perception, and understanding complex issues has been extremely helpful in understanding what is so difficult to process when your stuck in it. Your sharing your work pulls many people out of the quicksand into sailing free and navigating our way out of the storm. Thanks again. L'Chaim
I like your strategy of becoming confused about the family system because it allows me to keep my integrity, considering that my family system is dysfunctional, toxic, & narcissistic. Even if they become reactive, confusion allows me to remain neutral and stay calm @ the same time. Thank you Jerry!✨
Yes being confused is a great way to handle things instead of being angry. Because if you are confused then the rest of the nasty family can't condemn us because we are angry that just gives them more of a reason to throw those arrows into our scapegoat and hide but if we add confused then they can't blame us for anything else like they could if we were being angry
I was way to reactive to all the abuse but over time I reacted less and less and now I just don't communicate with them at all, except my older brother flying monkey I ask how he and my other older brother is doing from time to time. Now I no longer have a family of origin sadly to say.
We needed our parents even though they were abusers and broke trust we never needed our siblings I can't break free from my parents but I can write off my siblings in one second the problem is my parents rope me into spending time with siblings
I don't think there is any video of the master therapist Jerry Wise which isn't GOLD. Incredible video. Finding you on youtube is like finding God for me personally.
You are correct “Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist” Workshop Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time On Zoom Topics: The Illusions of the Narcissist The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists Living in the War Zone 7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist 10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have And more… Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos. Q & A Role Plays Volunteer participation You will receive the recorded workshop You will receive the notes for the workshop www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
The comment at the end about detaching from the role of scapegoat in your own mind,even if they still believe you are that role was really enlightening.I think that is what Ive started to do so that was validated for me
Jerry thank you for your wisdom. I came to this channel because I apparently am the scapegoat/truth teller in my family. My sister is a narcissist whose son is the golden child of 13 grandchildren. My mother accidentally said my son was her favorite. From that day forward my son has been made the scapegoat. All of that side of the family (2 sisters/husbands/kids) are alcoholics and drug addicts, but my son was the bad person and not accepted even though as a young teenager he did drugs with them to feel a part of their group. He and I have been ostricized for the past 8 years. He so much wanted to be back in the fold and for his little son to be part of the family. He was shut out and despised. 3 weeks ago he died. Now my sisters et al are being so sympathetic. It is gagging me. This side of the family never once tried to mend any differences they had with us. They put up a wall. I realized that their behavior is toxic and really don't want them back in my life. I am struggling because they are all being so kind etc... But I can't help feeling that they are glad to not have to deal with my son. But I can not accept being back in the fold. They hurt both of us so much and it angers me that it took his death for them to reach out and now want a relationship with me. I did react to my sister by telling her how hurt I am and how I don't know what to do with us since they had reject him, me and my grandson all of these years. The respond was that I owe her an apology for being so harsh because "I dropped a bomb!" Others in the family assume I want to reconcile. It would make their lives easy if I did. But, right now at least, I don't. Why would I want to be back in a family who out right rejected us. I have been building my own tribe of people who genuinely care about me.
I’m sorry this is what you are going through. It’s not an easy journey to stop functioning in this role in the family, self differentiation work can be very helpful and life changing ❤️
Jerry, you have a gift in how you pin things down exactly right. As you talk, i see my previous world opening up, and see from the outside of me looking in, the dynamics of the others' roles. It brought back memories of every single negative situation being forced onto me even as an adult with my own child. How they forced that i be central to the issues going on, to vent out their spleen on someone, being too cowardly to be honest, and too set in this scapegoat mentality to ever see me as a human being with feelings. Reading other peoples posts on here, i fit into many people's experiences, as if our families all lived by the same set of instructions.
So glad I fell onto this video today. A lightbulb went off to explain why my sister would always seem to ask me about some problem she knew I experiencing at the dinner table at holiday dinners versus generally asking me what I've been up to. I thought this to be inappropriate and could not understand what would motivate her to do this.
My sisters delighted in my very painful divorce. They gossiped about it in an attempt to humiliate me. They only humiliated themselves with their behavior. Not enough to do I guess.
Good video. I wish I had known this a long time ago. I spent so much time reacting to the role, not knowing I was inadvertently reinforcing it. Self-differentiation is what is really needed. It’s taken me (too many) years to understand this. Thanks Jerry
Your work has transformed my life since I started watching you a few years ago. Thank you for what you give to us without charge on UA-cam. When I next visit the US, I'll try to set up a consultation with you.
Great video. Thank you Jerry Wise! No reaction from me to my abusers. I don't feel shame at all because I am an innocent. No scapegoat here. Detached. I love me more. I am in the driver's seat of my life. I am happy with myself.😍🚙🙏💪😍
I can't thank you enough, Jerry, your wisdom has helped me enormously and continues to do so. No matter what narrative your family has perpetuated, you are helping and inspiring people around the world. Nobody can take that away from you. God bless you Sir. 🙏🏼❤☀️
Wow, thank you I have another workshop coming up in April 10, 2021 “Overcoming Shame and Guilt with Family-of-origin Work It will be April 10th Saturday 1-5pm EST on Zoom Sign up on website to get info on workshops www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/event-details/overcoming-guilt-and-shame-through-family-of-origin-work-workshop Sign up now for early bird price I also have three other workshops for rent or sale on my website: • Introduction to Self-Differentiation-Workshop • Reducing Your Reactivity-Workshop • Getting Your Family-of-Origin Out of You-Workshop www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com Please join as a paid member for $1.99/month on my UA-cam channel, click JOIN and support the free videos on my UA-cam channel, also you will get notifications of upcoming events and additional
Thank You, Jerry. This, together with The situation is hopeless but not serious vid are life-changing. I've actually started resisting the role of the scapegoat (they turned me into the family's scapegoat after I went NC for a while) and be calmer around them. They sincerely don't like that :) And because I am so calm, they look bored and uninterested when we talk. I do think narcissists want nothing to do with people who don't play their game. If I don't react to the family anxiety and their constant pings, what is there to get from me? Nothing. This is quite sad because you realize how little they care about their own children and how important is their own addiction to narcissistic supply (so much more important than the relationship with their adult children).
I have been working on the reaction piece. When I responded in a healthy way when my brother tried to get me stirred up, he became angry and has not called me since. There has been some texting, but few and far between. He got right away that I wasn't taking what he was trying to pass to me. Very small example, but have been working on the decades of subliminal programming. Great message, thanks.
Thank you. So great to start thinking in terms of two systems in operation..the false guilt / shame / abandonment system which you can actually THROW AWAY..its useless wrong toxic and actually quite laughable... and then the joy of the TRUE DIFFERENTIATED SELF way of viewing the world where good is good and bad is bad according to sane rational thinking...I'm getting it more and more as I watch your great videos. Thank you so much ❤
Great video ❤. I’m 27 and I’ve lived my whole life to prove something. I’m starting to think it’s part of who I am😅. Because when I stop… life feels boring. It has been my drive for so long. My story in interesting I come from a narcissist family system and I am the scapegoat / blacksheep. (For those who understand that) I am no contact with my family of origin and I moved to the other side of the United States with no friends ect… but even tho I’m disconnected from that toxic environment. I still feel like I have to prove something major because my own people and blood tried to bring me down. No matter how much I try… I can’t shake the feeling of feeling like I gotta prove something or show people “look what I did” and I understand where that comes from now… but it doesn’t shake the feeling. I feel like without it life is kinda boring but then also I’m like you… wrestling with; “should I be using this as fuel” because it’s not technically healthy😅
Josh- when you are ready, process your trauma and the feeling will dissipate. A lot of strange behavior dissipates after you work through your trauma on its own. You will notice a shift in your personality for the better. 💚 A lot of small things add up. That's how it worked for me. 😊
2 years ago my cousin went into full blown attack on my daughter and I over my ex husband (abusive naraccistic). My daughter wants nothing to do with him. 12 years of doing all I could do stay alive, because of death threats. I even have a address confidentiality program. I told her that was not the plan and we are not going to see him. Then she said to my daughter, do you want to see your dad. My daughter said no. She then said you know he has been looking for you. I said please do not tell him, it will put us in grave danger. Then she had the audacity to say, oh but he is a really good guy. We left as fast as we could. I was still in flight survival mode. I wrote her just a couple months ago. I said, I am not going to be receiving your judgement on this matter. I gave her a few examples of the horrors we have lived through. I told her, he was our monster we know him we lived with him. I was setting a boundary and I was not willing to be judged for keeping us alive. I said that really good guys do not try to kill their wife and family. I expect to be respected and will not be judged for doing what I had to do. She responded a few days later. Sent me a dumb picture of focusing on the negative, keeps negative things happen. Then goes into, how she did not want to get involved. And she prefers no contact. I sent back, fine no contact is fine. I have no problem with that. Thank you and have a good life. It was weird, because she interjected herself in the middle of the volatile situation my daughter and I lived through. Plus, never once in 12 years did she ever pick up the phone to call me and find out if my daughter and I were ok. Very toxic family. Yes, I took away me being the scapegoat. But it all made sense, my family is very narcissistic, and no wonder I ended up in a codependent naraccistic abusive relationship with my ex husband. I did go full no contact.
I don't agree that saying "the scapegoat role is hopeless but not serious." I have been the scapegoat since a was born, and it has done damage to my life. It wounds the victim in ways that make forming connections a challenge, and that is serious.
I liked your comment about familly's guilt and shame being more about what they just don't like... It puts things in perspective! What a reason to feel guilt and shame?!!
you’re awesome Jerry! in a lot of your videos you put into words things that i unconsciously put into practice with my own family. they are constantly asking me to spread gossip about others to which i began replying ‘you will have to talk to them yourself if you want to know’. for a time it was really stirring the pot, now i get the question less and less. thanks for another great video! cheers to you!
14:09 because we project onto them what we need or want them to be. I don’t miss my actual mother and sister, the reality is painful, I miss the projection i invented of them loving me one day maybe
What happens if the scapegoat is leaving the role for good? I just experienced that the whole system collpases right in that moment.The golden child got the biggest life-crisis ever.
Can you elaborate on that? I am the scapegoat leaving the role and it only seems to be bringing everyone together, even the select few who used to be on my side.
@@mac0219 it's only for a short while. They will eventually turn on eachother. They are dysfunctional, they hate eachother, u are the only thing they had in common, trust me, they will collapse eventually now that u have gotten away from them
I was the family slave..my crazy "mother" conveniently stopped doing typical 1950's "housewife" things... So I learned to use the washer and dryer..I could not understand why my friends' bathrooms did not have mold and mildew..so I tried to clean it... THAT became my job... She stopped cooking dinner... I knew Daddy had shrimp and fish in the freezer..so I learned to books shrimp and bake.. It was scary because we had a gas stove and no pilot lights..I had to learn to light a gas stove.. Eventually...my father asked me to take over at 14.... He got me a check cashing card with a sympathetic grocer... I had to get "her" up and dressed and no Valium til we got back....to drive me.. But I had to plan meals budget..prep food and cook and clean up... I became very well organized..and it just became accepted it was now my "job"... My father was sad about it but he was overwhelmed...she and 3 of my siblings were JUST FINE with it and NEVER offered to help.. The 4 the sibling bought things for "her"...that actually helped me...the best was a FANTASTIC dishwasher... I am dealing at 70 with the anger I had to suppress then...I live in poverty because I got no help launching into life..I managed..but in the end the maggots got help from the whore after my father died... Then..they stole everything when she became demented..
Thank you for creating this wonderful video and giving me some tools to use to change my life. Please do me video on this topic. This video has help me in many ways.
Thank you so much Jerry, I needed the understanding, direction and tools you provided to start moving forward from the situation I'm in. This content is so valuable and I deeply appreciate it.
Wow, how wonderful...! “Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist” Workshop A great workshop for ACOA’s, ACON’s, and any of you who come from dysfunctional families! Workshop leader: Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC LIVE July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time On Zoom Topics: The Illusions of the Narcissist The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists Living in the War Zone 7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist 10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have And more… Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos. Q & A Role Plays Volunteer participation You will receive the recorded workshop You will receive the notes for the workshop www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
Thank you very much, Jerry Wise. This is so helpful. I felt so much disgust, when watching this video, because I suddenly get aware of what I am doing. Now I understand why I am scared of my own power. thanks
I was the scapegoat of my extended family from my father side. When my cousin broke up her engagement, it was my fault because I thought it was a bad idea to force her to be in a relationshipshe didn't want anymore. When she had bad grades it was my fault because I distracted her. I was a bad influence to her. I went no contact except with that cousin. She was blameless, the problem was her sister, her mother and our grand-mother. And sometimes my father, but he eventually learned the truth. I sucks to carry a guilt that you don't know where it comes from. But I learned to be myself and care less about others people opinions. Because it doesn't matter what you do, they will never be happy.
Often, we grow up in families that teach us to experience guilt anytime we experience a ‘self’. Learning to accept the guilt and to continue self differentiating despite it is key❤️
@@jerrywise t My parents required I keep their secrets - as a very young child (under 12). During adolescence I became their scapegoat. Your explanation makes sense. The position of scapegoat is systemic as you describe it. Nothing personal.
Maybe a form of gaslighting or altering the truth so kids need to accept lies as truth? I don't know sometimes whole families keep a secret especially certain abuse so if everyone carries the secret not sure how that is a traditional scapegoat
The courts and police took my family roll to a whole other level. I mind my business help where I can But become targeted anyway. About to loose my home as it was vandalized and instead I was investigated and then violently beaten . Still trying to make sense out of the senseless. Knowing full well my kiddos are taking the brutality and my lot to their precious hearts. A quite disemboweling feeling. Still doesn't mean I lay down and die No matter how much people need to deflect THEIR own junk. I'm still standing And will continue praying for change.
Glad it helped! Thanks for watching “Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist” Workshop Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time On Zoom Topics: The Illusions of the Narcissist The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists Living in the War Zone 7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist 10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have And more… Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos. Q & A Role Plays Volunteer participation You will receive the recorded workshop You will receive the notes for the workshop www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
This is the most rational advice I have heard about this subject! Painless and easy to use steps, thank you Jerry do you have any other materials such as books or e books? Do you tele council, I intend to use the techniques in the future
Yes, I do I worked with people online Contact me at jwlearning@hotmail.com “Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist” Workshop Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time On Zoom Topics: The Illusions of the Narcissist The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists Living in the War Zone 7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist 10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have And more… Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos. Q & A Role Plays Volunteer participation You will receive the recorded workshop You will receive the notes for the workshop www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
I give no supply. I process the data narcs give out. They want instant answers. I tell them i need to think about this later i will give you a statement. It drives them nuts because the lack frustration tolerance. The hate to wait. I practice observe don't absorb , Ross Rosenberg,m.a. on you tube.
Finally get your family OUT OF YOU & be the true self you were never allowed to be 👇
Access my free training - jerrywise.ewebinar.com/webinar/free-training-10027
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The family enrages when the scapegoat is successful and happy!
My sisters fought me when I got into college, they both failed the university entrance exam and they had to stay home while I was of to university.
Being Scapegoated in a Family is One Big GASLIGHT!
True ✌️
Yep
Your the gaslit sacrifice
If only I had known. I was so fooled, and so betrayed. For so, so long.
The Scapegoat is the "Avoidance Pawn". The problem is as Family Scapegoats, we deeply love people who will never love us back. Thank you so much for this message. I really needed to hear this today. You are appreciated!! We are the Keepers of Integrity. 💜
NOT PURSUING THE RELATIONSHIP is very good advice
Thanks Susan, I'm glad it's helpful ❤️
It took me awhile to figure out I was the scapegoat because my parents loved to rave about me to other people. Ofc they were worse behind closed doors but you get used to that. Looking back now, especially after now spending time with actual mature adults, I realized I was a wall to project everything onto, and a tool to use for their own ego. No one needs to live like that
The scapegoat is the scapegoat because we're the ones who see the BS and the narc hates that you know what they are. Proud scapegoat here! Embrace their idea of you because their idea of you fears the hell out of them. Dont react to their nonsense, they love that. My pat answers to their nonsense are: I'm sorry you feel that way, I've got a million things to do. Have a great day, and then I hang up the phone and laugh my ass off. I've learned to be unattached from their weirdness. Dont take them personally. If Mary was born in your position in the family instead of you, then Mary would be the scapegoat.
@@aubreygomez89 I laugh when things blow up in other family members faces I feel bad but can't help it I remember when they all turned on me in high school when I really needed them
Ok, but what if he/she is your boss? Your neighbour? Director of the music academy where you want to study bcos there are good teachers but mr narc director does everything to annoy you and prevent you to get forward in your study and tells bad things about you, and get people who like you at his side, etc? You cannot do anything in my opnion. He takes advantage of his power position as director, boss, etc.
They hate that we are smarter than them and see right through their bs
You’re all toxic af
It's interesting...after my father passed away (he and I were close) I became the family scapegoat. This was facilitated by my mother who is a narcissist and jealous of me. Finally, I moved about 2,000 miles away and have remained there. My 3 other siblings remain in the Midwest and my mother still triangulates things. I have formed friends here who I consider my "family". We are supportive & loving toward each other. Here I am at 69 years old still "working" on things.
This move helped you so much, i'm sure.
I was in safe distance, but came closer because 'the family' decided that we siblings have to do something to take care of the parents.
At this point, i should have trusted myself and refuse to leave my new hometown.
Many decisions i did after were also influenced by trusting other family members more than me.
My participation has developed into a nightmare. That's a lesson for life. I realized, that it was only me who was expected to be flexible.
And instead of using the flexibility like you and go away, i did the opposite and got trapped in the most unflexible prison one could imagine. Shit happens.
Happy working for all of us scapegoats 😊
Good news
Same thing happened to me. Still working on it at 69 myself.
me too, similar story
When I read your post I got goosebumps. My Mother passed away after a long battle with Alzheimer’s. I started noticing anger directed at me from my Father and then he publicly humiliated me at my Mothers memorial service. I was so hurt, angry, devistated etc…I prayed for wisdom and I believe the Lord led me to learn about Narcissist family patterns and things started to make sense.
I wouldn’t wish this on anyone and I am so sorry that you have experienced this but so happy you found peace.
I am also planning to move thousands of miles away.
Exactly. They wanna blame me not the real sin in the family.
Unfortunately as a child we have no chance to refuse being a scapegoat!
No awareness and no power. Until decades later, after cumulative damage had been done
Yes childhood is a hostage situation and we are trained since birth. So it feels very clumsy to begin to change and it causes an escalation of bad behaviours in response from the other people... but there is no other way, than to start.
Very true.
@@gigin9774 Complex PTSD
In the future we can through education. Perhaps a little wishful thinking on my part, but it is possible.
Those who experienced the scapegoat feeling... hats off to you. You survived, because you are the toughest. Believe me they knew it to the core of the hardest part of their body. Today, after decades of emotional torture... i understood, I survived because i feel pain of others. They survived because i took their emotions on priority... they showed me their real feelings. They moved on like i never existed. Then i cried and remembered my childhood troubles... i understood why feeling of emptiness prevailed through out my life... i feel relaxed, they will never come back. "My parents".
Very helpful.
❤
Thank you for this great meditation 🌼💛💚🌼💛🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼💚🧡🧡
I've been scapegoated by my family all my life this is very helpful. Scapegoating also involves character assassination. Trust me on that one.
Great synopsis and "auditory" visualizations of what this is.
So many teachable moments! So many identifiers. Thankyou Jerry Wise
Excellent Excellent Excellent!!! God Bless you Jerry Wise. I am almost 58 years old, coming from a Polish Roman Catholic family of 6 kids in Milwaukee WI. I’m #4. I went no contact in 2011 & moved to Central coast California. My son, who is now going on 35 years old, has just recently been able to see & understand the whole mess, and has too relocated to the west coast. But for God, I M building a relationship with my son again !
I'm 59 years old and come from a Roman Catholic family of six children too with a good father but a nasty narcissistic neglectful mother and I only escaped 6 months ago and it's so sad. It's just me and my son and I'm grateful for my son but I'm dealing with so much anger because I didn't move away from this family 30 years ago like my one brother did. He's the only one that is free having to deal with my life being stolen because of my evil mother is very hard when I'm almost 60 years old
I am happy for you! 💕
Congratulations to you on getting your son back.😍
The polish people I knew were still very traditional compared to others was that your experience
Yes my daughter bought into the Golden Child image of my sister and her children for a while. Now she's starting to understand the cruel dynamics of that "fun" family, with all their toys, witty sayings, and flashy, abrupt mannerisms.
My parents always called me the “spoiled” child. The one that needed too much and took away too much time. I remember the gazes of contempt from relatives for being the troublemaker. However, I recently read my teachers evaluation as a young girl. I was quiet, creative, conscientious and compliant. It took me a while to realize that being called spoiled was a form a scapegoating. I have changed my first name. This helped me to change the dynamics with family and friends.
I remember those contemptuous looks from extended family. So hurtful and confusing. I now know they had been told lies about me. I was a small child. So cruel 😢
After my parents passed away several years ago, I completely disconnected from the rest of the toxic family…best decision of my entire life…now I am finally understanding it all and healing
I was always quiet and introverted also people picked up on my high sensitivity because I turned red in my cheeks yet my family got to label me trouble maker and instigator huh? 🤷
Im the scapegoat in my enmeshed family. My sister was the golden and then invisible child, she died. Im still the scapegoat. Recently started to detach but parents keep trying to put me back in the role. Whatever i do its still a problem. Even if i stay calm its a problem. I happen to be living with them currently which makes it worse. Thanks to your videos..i started to see the enmeshment .
16:09 Authentic and genuine people make sense. You know exactly why they are doing what they are doing because they are transparent. There is no mismatch cause and effect make sense. He hit is thumb with the hammer and he said ow. What I have learned is if you can't determine immediately the why or find yourself wondering or if you are trying to figure anything out then STOP. If you have to figure out or puzzle over any behavior or action then 99% of the time manipulation is in play and you can take that to the bank. If you are really struggling look at the outcome. When you know who the outcome benefited you can infer the motive. L'Chaim!
All of your comments are so helpful!
Do you have a UA-cam channel?
my reactivity as a supply is a useful thought for me to self regulate better
Me, too. I wish you luck and success! 👍🏻💪🏻
Same
I'm a scapegoat and my mom was talking about her friends son who she said is nothing but trouble and I was like omg my mom is now scapegoating someone elses kid
Same, I am too reactive. Not even in the way I realize. Even just getting sad is enough. I need to not react when I hear my mothers tales to my siblings. As of right now I don’t look good but that’s okay I can work from here.
23:53 In my case it would not matter how calm I was, they would try to incite more because they wanted a reaction i was refusing to provide, when I would not respond they way they wanted to then they would just make up a story where I did. I have looked at it this way. There are two kinds of people those who feel emotion and those the use emotion for an agenda. I am grateful that I am able to FEEL the entire spectrum of emotions. I do not use emotions as a tool to hurt others and I am so thankful that I am not a person who would hurt others and am the person who can feel pain. I would rather be feeling pain than inflicting or causing pain to others. L'Chaim!
It was the same for me. They tried to incite a reaction from me many times. However, when you manage to maintain calm and be self-differentiated like Jerry advises, I tell you they will lose interest in you. Imagine how being self-differentiated is to a narcissistic parent who wants to be 100% enmeshed with you! It's shocking, off-putting, and uncomfortable. They won't want anything to do with you and would instead seek the help of the other adult children to feel better. (that's what my narcissists do anyway).
I think once you are assigned the role of scapegoat you cannot get out of it.
I agree that even if you are non-reactive they will just make up lies for their smear campaign.
@@robbiea1482 even if you succeed they will never see you for who you are. You're right your role is assigned and you're expected to play the part.
I get well when I avoid people.
LOL! Brilliantly said! 😂👍👍
Absolutely 💯!!!!!
I feel setback immediately when I try to connect. 😪
This is true not just of families, but also of friend, even old friends.
I was mentally abused for 50 years. So tired of the negativity. I dont care what they think of me. I live in the light of loving myself and other innocents. I was a scapegoat as an adult within my ex husband and two kids. No contact with everyone in my family except my grown daughter. I divorced him 3 years ago. 😍
It’s hard to go through all that, take care of yourself.
“Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist”
Workshop
Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC
July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time
On Zoom
Topics:
The Illusions of the Narcissist
The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists
Living in the War Zone
7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist
10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently
Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding
Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment
Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents
Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have
And more…
Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos.
Q & A
Role Plays
Volunteer participation
You will receive the recorded workshop
You will receive the notes for the workshop
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
12:14 When it happens in childhood it is so destructive. Children are like dogs emotionally because they are dependent on those who are caring for them to survive. As a child you "feel" shame just like a dog does when talked to in the "bad dog" tone. Even if the dog did not do anything wrong the dog still feels like he did and crouches in submission with his tail between his legs and averts his eyes. So even when we KNOW we did not do anything wrong it won't protect us when we are children. When we were being fussed at or accused of something we "felt" like we did wrong even if we didn't and that is hard to process and understand from an adult perspective. L'Chaim
Go watch the “crappy childhood fairy” videos. Those would help you too.
Your work is stellar. Thank you for the sharpness, the clarity, the empathy. ❤
Thanks for the video. I've recently gone on vacation with my family. Observing the dynamics after watching your videos was interesting. I'm a scapegoat. When my mother and my sister had a serious fight, suddenly I was allowed to spend time with each of them! I knew the reason. Still, when asked about my personal life I said a bit too much and it was immediately used against me. I felt that even though I was calm, avoided conflict and minded my own business, while they were fighting rudely, went silent for days etc., it was me who was hated, somehow. So yes, this is a role. It doesn't matter that you are nice, do not fight and accept others with calmness and internal happiness. They chose me as a scapegoat and I saw this wasn't my fault. I noticed my mother didn't listen to me and denied the real things I said and did. She didn't make sense! Wow. Real coca cola. I suppose they won't change. I will try not to give them any personal info in the future, though. And have less contact.
Exactly my experience!!
@@mariamalhotra8228 mine too Maria.
Sadly this is becoming so common. I took my kids out of public school because of dysfunctional society and teachers and kids. Kids can’t behave or not get overstimulated in this world! So much dysfunction...
From what I see most family members have no idea they scapegoated us and that we internalized the role so what do we do how do we get through to them if their denial always takes over?
In my experience, at work, it is more a matter of others finding a weakness, exploiting it and when the influential members of the group start to be abusive they will get away with it by having discredited you in the prior. Others will then see they can abuse you with impunity and join in. Hence you are kicked down the ladder to become the scapegoat of their errors as well.
Said very well. 🎯
If you go no contact, don't go back. I lost everything.
Sorry to hear that. You lost everything when you went back? They hoovered you back to try and destroy you? Something similar happened to me.
@@watchmanonthewall2151 intentional - I don't know. It sent me right back to being a suicidal 19 year old. I had no way to go back.
@@kahlodiego5299 I pray you find peace and happiness. Please don't lose hope--stay in the fight. Continue improving and caring for yourself. People will come along the way to give a helping hand and you will eventually overcome your troubles.
Yup... a cancer diagnosis pulled me back in. This time they teamed up to set me up. This recovery is much harder. But it is possible. Best wishes.
@Gemma Dann "Home has become such a damaged and various concept. There is so much to yearn for." - Salman Rushdie
I liked what Jerry said that if you still show up and they don’t change, it is an opportunity for you to grow! 🥰❤️🙏😍👍
I've been a scapegoat in many, many situations, at work as well as in the family. I have a sibling who keeps this going as best she can, and she gaslights and attempts to make me feel inherently shameful, projects her own distress on me and tries to make me feel like I am "the problem" when she can't point to anything I am doing wrong. Her favorite power move is to keep me out of her life except when SHE needs me in her life, like when she wants to play "happy family" for a big holiday. She has people she works with and her shallow social contacts fooled with her false face of eager and helpful, but I feel very alienated by the brittleness and hollowness I see in the superficial smiles. It's heartbreaking.
Past the confusion now and also the anger. Trying to understand that she is very emotionally unwell, and doesn't know how to be authentic or have an authentic relationship. I'm the whipping boy.
Disconnecting!!!!! With regret, but I can't "do" a relationship by myself.
As a child I learned not to react. To just be quite and do what I needed to do to survive. Calm was my middle name. I stopped over sharing about my life. "Focus back on them." Love it. Thank you Jerry! 😍
From the BeGood4000 channel I heard a word / concept that I never even considered before or heard of. It's called "OVERSHARING!" Is taking a while to DEPROGRAM this one for myself, but I'm learning it without overdoing it
Excellent. Thank you. I discovered and became the scapegoat after my mum passed. The point about family disfunction is correct. A vacuum was created, and I became the focus of their ill-health. They pushed buttons only to created the new born family scapegoat! It's been shocking, but stepping back I can see things very clearly. Protect yourself first!!!! I have stopped the supply once I realized the situation going on. I've had to learn alot quickly.
I don't need them. They will never change.
Thank you so much for this, Jerry. These videos help me understand what has happened to me my entire life with my family. I went no contact with the last living narcissist in my family (an older sibling golden child). As a result I’m finally healing and becoming my true self. These videos are so valuable.
Great video very helpful! I was my family scapegoat all my life. I've gone no contact with all of them now. It seems I've taken on somewhat of a scapegoat role in my new community though- I keep to myself yet I am aware there are toxic people spreading rumors about me. I bumped into them shortly after moving here and we pretty much sniffed each other out real quick. I recognized them as quite narcissistic and they recognized me as codependent with poor boundaries and away we go!
I know I said this before but I absolutely love your examples on how to handle difficult conversations without walking away depleted. You taught us how to handle these difficult conversations without losing it and keeping our integrity.
I stick to email. Ask questions rather than making statements.
11:17 I want to look straight at them and say "Well, whoever told YOU to just be yourself gave you some really bad advice! " because being themselves is exploiting and invalidating others. Thank you JerrytheWise. glad to finally be able to contribute in some way. Keep up the good work. You work matters more than words can express. You are a generous man and you have always been a positive source of inspiration for all. Your work has made a difference in this world. You have amazing insight,perception, and understanding complex issues has been extremely helpful in understanding what is so difficult to process when your stuck in it. Your sharing your work pulls many people out of the quicksand into sailing free and navigating our way out of the storm. Thanks again. L'Chaim
I like your strategy of becoming confused about the family system because it allows me to keep my integrity, considering that my family system is dysfunctional, toxic, & narcissistic. Even if they become reactive, confusion allows me to remain neutral and stay calm @ the same time. Thank you Jerry!✨
Yes being confused is a great way to handle things instead of being angry. Because if you are confused then the rest of the nasty family can't condemn us because we are angry that just gives them more of a reason to throw those arrows into our scapegoat and hide but if we add confused then they can't blame us for anything else like they could if we were being angry
I was way to reactive to all the abuse but over time I reacted less and less and now I just don't communicate with them at all, except my older brother flying monkey I ask how he and my other older brother is doing from time to time. Now I no longer have a family of origin sadly to say.
😢
Same here.
Same and realize never really did have one.
"At least I have myself." I didn't even have that, with the family.
We needed our parents even though they were abusers and broke trust we never needed our siblings I can't break free from my parents but I can write off my siblings in one second the problem is my parents rope me into spending time with siblings
I don't think there is any video of the master therapist Jerry Wise which isn't GOLD. Incredible video. Finding you on youtube is like finding God for me personally.
Scapegoats do not volunteer, they are appointed by the family.
You are correct
“Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist”
Workshop
Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC
July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time
On Zoom
Topics:
The Illusions of the Narcissist
The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists
Living in the War Zone
7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist
10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently
Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding
Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment
Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents
Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have
And more…
Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos.
Q & A
Role Plays
Volunteer participation
You will receive the recorded workshop
You will receive the notes for the workshop
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
The comment at the end about detaching from the role of scapegoat in your own mind,even if they still believe you are that role was really enlightening.I think that is what Ive started to do so that was validated for me
Jerry thank you for your wisdom. I came to this channel because I apparently am the scapegoat/truth teller in my family. My sister is a narcissist whose son is the golden child of 13 grandchildren. My mother accidentally said my son was her favorite. From that day forward my son has been made the scapegoat. All of that side of the family (2 sisters/husbands/kids) are alcoholics and drug addicts, but my son was the bad person and not accepted even though as a young teenager he did drugs with them to feel a part of their group. He and I have been ostricized for the past 8 years. He so much wanted to be back in the fold and for his little son to be part of the family. He was shut out and despised. 3 weeks ago he died. Now my sisters et al are being so sympathetic. It is gagging me. This side of the family never once tried to mend any differences they had with us. They put up a wall. I realized that their behavior is toxic and really don't want them back in my life. I am struggling because they are all being so kind etc... But I can't help feeling that they are glad to not have to deal with my son. But I can not accept being back in the fold. They hurt both of us so much and it angers me that it took his death for them to reach out and now want a relationship with me. I did react to my sister by telling her how hurt I am and how I don't know what to do with us since they had reject him, me and my grandson all of these years. The respond was that I owe her an apology for being so harsh because "I dropped a bomb!" Others in the family assume I want to reconcile. It would make their lives easy if I did. But, right now at least, I don't. Why would I want to be back in a family who out right rejected us. I have been building my own tribe of people who genuinely care about me.
I’m sorry this is what you are going through. It’s not an easy journey to stop functioning in this role in the family, self differentiation work can be very helpful and life changing ❤️
Jerry, you have a gift in how you pin things down exactly right. As you talk, i see my previous world opening up, and see from the outside of me looking in, the dynamics of the others' roles. It brought back memories of every single negative situation being forced onto me even as an adult with my own child. How they forced that i be central to the issues going on, to vent out their spleen on someone, being too cowardly to be honest, and too set in this scapegoat mentality to ever see me as a human being with feelings. Reading other peoples posts on here, i fit into many people's experiences, as if our families all lived by the same set of instructions.
So glad I fell onto this video today. A lightbulb went off to explain why my sister would always seem to ask me about some problem she knew I experiencing at the dinner table at holiday dinners versus generally asking me what I've been up to. I thought this to be inappropriate and could not understand what would motivate her to do this.
Oh my gosh, same with my family!
It's just to humiliate you. It's disgusting behavior.
My sisters delighted in my very painful divorce. They gossiped about it in an attempt to humiliate me. They only humiliated themselves with their behavior. Not enough to do I guess.
Need a video analysis on what happens when SG is free from the dysfunction.
Thanks, Jerry! Luv the view from the balcony.
Glad you enjoyed it
...great video...enlightening and valuable. Do not let them define you as scapegoat, don't react, no supply.
24:30 THANK YOU. I needed to hear this. It is SO hard not to react and aggressively defend myself. It's as instinctive as gasping for breath.
Good video. I wish I had known this a long time ago. I spent so much time reacting to the role, not knowing I was inadvertently reinforcing it. Self-differentiation is what is really needed. It’s taken me (too many) years to understand this. Thanks Jerry
Glad it was helpful!
Your work has transformed my life since I started watching you a few years ago. Thank you for what you give to us without charge on UA-cam. When I next visit the US, I'll try to set up a consultation with you.
Great video. Thank you Jerry Wise! No reaction from me to my abusers. I don't feel shame at all because I am an innocent. No scapegoat here. Detached. I love me more. I am in the driver's seat of my life. I am happy with myself.😍🚙🙏💪😍
I can't thank you enough, Jerry, your wisdom has helped me enormously and continues to do so. No matter what narrative your family has perpetuated, you are helping and inspiring people around the world. Nobody can take that away from you. God bless you Sir.
🙏🏼❤☀️
Wow, thank you
I have another workshop coming up in April 10, 2021
“Overcoming Shame and Guilt with Family-of-origin Work
It will be April 10th Saturday 1-5pm EST on Zoom
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Thank You, Jerry. This, together with The situation is hopeless but not serious vid are life-changing. I've actually started resisting the role of the scapegoat (they turned me into the family's scapegoat after I went NC for a while) and be calmer around them. They sincerely don't like that :) And because I am so calm, they look bored and uninterested when we talk. I do think narcissists want nothing to do with people who don't play their game. If I don't react to the family anxiety and their constant pings, what is there to get from me? Nothing. This is quite sad because you realize how little they care about their own children and how important is their own addiction to narcissistic supply (so much more important than the relationship with their adult children).
I have been working on the reaction piece. When I responded in a healthy way when my brother tried to get me stirred up, he became angry and has not called me since. There has been some texting, but few and far between. He got right away that I wasn't taking what he was trying to pass to me. Very small example, but have been working on the decades of subliminal programming. Great message, thanks.
Thank you Jerry. You broke this down so well. Listening to this video was so liberating.
Absolutely spot on!
Thank you Jerry 🙏
Thank you. So great to start thinking in terms of two systems in operation..the false guilt / shame / abandonment system which you can actually THROW AWAY..its useless wrong toxic and actually quite laughable... and then the joy of the TRUE DIFFERENTIATED SELF way of viewing the world where good is good and bad is bad according to sane rational thinking...I'm getting it more and more as I watch your great videos. Thank you so much ❤
It's so nice and quiet where you are Jerry 😊
I was and still am the Family scape goat. I was always blamed for everything and anything. 😩
Outstanding content. Many thanks & love dear Jerry
You are very welcome
Great video ❤. I’m 27 and I’ve lived my whole life to prove something. I’m starting to think it’s part of who I am😅. Because when I stop… life feels boring. It has been my drive for so long. My story in interesting
I come from a narcissist family system and I am the scapegoat / blacksheep. (For those who understand that) I am no contact with my family of origin and I moved to the other side of the United States with no friends ect… but even tho I’m disconnected from that toxic environment. I still feel like I have to prove something major because my own people and blood tried to bring me down. No matter how much I try… I can’t shake the feeling of feeling like I gotta prove something or show people “look what I did” and I understand where that comes from now… but it doesn’t shake the feeling. I feel like without it life is kinda boring but then also I’m like you… wrestling with; “should I be using this as fuel” because it’s not technically healthy😅
Josh- when you are ready, process your trauma and the feeling will dissipate. A lot of strange behavior dissipates after you work through your trauma on its own.
You will notice a shift in your personality for the better. 💚 A lot of small things add up. That's how it worked for me. 😊
2 years ago my cousin went into full blown attack on my daughter and I over my ex husband (abusive naraccistic). My daughter wants nothing to do with him. 12 years of doing all I could do stay alive, because of death threats. I even have a address confidentiality program. I told her that was not the plan and we are not going to see him. Then she said to my daughter, do you want to see your dad. My daughter said no. She then said you know he has been looking for you. I said please do not tell him, it will put us in grave danger. Then she had the audacity to say, oh but he is a really good guy. We left as fast as we could. I was still in flight survival mode.
I wrote her just a couple months ago. I said, I am not going to be receiving your judgement on this matter. I gave her a few examples of the horrors we have lived through. I told her, he was our monster we know him we lived with him. I was setting a boundary and I was not willing to be judged for keeping us alive. I said that really good guys do not try to kill their wife and family.
I expect to be respected and will not be judged for doing what I had to do.
She responded a few days later. Sent me a dumb picture of focusing on the negative, keeps negative things happen. Then goes into, how she did not want to get involved. And she prefers no contact.
I sent back, fine no contact is fine. I have no problem with that.
Thank you and have a good life.
It was weird, because she interjected herself in the middle of the volatile situation my daughter and I lived through. Plus, never once in 12 years did she ever pick up the phone to call me and find out if my daughter and I were ok.
Very toxic family. Yes, I took away me being the scapegoat. But it all made sense, my family is very narcissistic, and no wonder I ended up in a codependent naraccistic abusive relationship with my ex husband.
I did go full no contact.
Good for you! I’m thankful God gave you the strength to survive this very toxic family so you could protect your daughter and yourself!
Thank you dear Dr. Wise (!)
You're most welcome!
I don't agree that saying "the scapegoat role is hopeless but not serious." I have been the scapegoat since a was born, and it has done damage to my life. It wounds the victim in ways that make forming connections a challenge, and that is serious.
I liked your comment about familly's guilt and shame being more about what they just don't like... It puts things in perspective! What a reason to feel guilt and shame?!!
Thank you! Just listening to you makes me feel so much better about my miserable situation in my family of origin… and I’m 57 years old!
you’re awesome Jerry! in a lot of your videos you put into words things that i unconsciously put into practice with my own family. they are constantly asking me to spread gossip about others to which i began replying ‘you will have to talk to them yourself if you want to know’. for a time it was really stirring the pot, now i get the question less and less. thanks for another great video! cheers to you!
Thank you for this, I did have to go no contact but I appreciate your videos.
You are so welcome
Jerry Wise, this is one of your best videos. I am a fan.
I appreciate it. Thanks for watching! ❤️
Thank you for explaining in detail how we give supply. I needed to hear this!!!!! Your videos are so enlightening
Beautiful view!🌅 Thank you for video❤️
Confusion is better then the anger and the hurt.
14:09 because we project onto them what we need or want them to be. I don’t miss my actual mother and sister, the reality is painful, I miss the projection i invented of them loving me one day maybe
What happens if the scapegoat is leaving the role for good? I just experienced that the whole system collpases right in that moment.The golden child got the biggest life-crisis ever.
Can you elaborate on that? I am the scapegoat leaving the role and it only seems to be bringing everyone together, even the select few who used to be on my side.
@@mac0219 it's only for a short while. They will eventually turn on eachother. They are dysfunctional, they hate eachother, u are the only thing they had in common, trust me, they will collapse eventually now that u have gotten away from them
This video is so eye morning. Must victims don’t even know they are being scapegoated.
I was the family slave..my crazy "mother" conveniently stopped doing typical 1950's "housewife" things...
So I learned to use the washer and dryer..I could not understand why my friends' bathrooms did not have mold and mildew..so I tried to clean it...
THAT became my job...
She stopped cooking dinner...
I knew Daddy had shrimp and fish in the freezer..so I learned to books shrimp and bake..
It was scary because we had a gas stove and no pilot lights..I had to learn to light a gas stove..
Eventually...my father asked me to take over at 14....
He got me a check cashing card with a sympathetic grocer...
I had to get "her" up and dressed and no Valium til we got back....to drive me..
But I had to plan meals budget..prep food and cook and clean up...
I became very well organized..and it just became accepted it was now my "job"...
My father was sad about it but he was overwhelmed...she and 3 of my siblings were JUST FINE with it and NEVER offered to help..
The 4 the sibling bought things for "her"...that actually helped me...the best was a FANTASTIC dishwasher...
I am dealing at 70 with the anger I had to suppress then...I live in poverty because I got no help launching into life..I managed..but in the end the maggots got help from the whore after my father died...
Then..they stole everything when she became demented..
Thank you for creating this wonderful video and giving me some tools to use to change my life. Please do me video on this topic. This video has help me in many ways.
Great suggestion!
Thank you so much Jerry, I needed the understanding, direction and tools you provided to start moving forward from the situation I'm in. This content is so valuable and I deeply appreciate it.
Haa, I knew I was like Kevin McAlester. Even more, because I knew his family was wrong about him the whole time too!
The kid from the movie home alone
14:03 You just healed me with that revelation! Thanks!
Wow, how wonderful...!
“Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist”
Workshop
A great workshop for ACOA’s, ACON’s, and any of you who come from dysfunctional families!
Workshop leader: Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC LIVE
July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time
On Zoom
Topics:
The Illusions of the Narcissist
The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists
Living in the War Zone
7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist
10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently
Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding
Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment
Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents
Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have
And more…
Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos.
Q & A
Role Plays
Volunteer participation
You will receive the recorded workshop
You will receive the notes for the workshop
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
Thank you Jerry, I can see where this calm approach can work for me.
I'm glad I'm the scapegoat so I don't have to be around or sit at the table with snakes
Thank you very much, Jerry Wise. This is so helpful. I felt so much disgust, when watching this video, because I suddenly get aware of what I am doing. Now I understand why I am scared of my own power. thanks
Another extremely helpful and informative video. Thank you, Jerry!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you ,
You really helping me by providing real life experience.
I was the scapegoat of my extended family from my father side. When my cousin broke up her engagement, it was my fault because I thought it was a bad idea to force her to be in a relationshipshe didn't want anymore. When she had bad grades it was my fault because I distracted her. I was a bad influence to her. I went no contact except with that cousin. She was blameless, the problem was her sister, her mother and our grand-mother. And sometimes my father, but he eventually learned the truth.
I sucks to carry a guilt that you don't know where it comes from. But I learned to be myself and care less about others people opinions. Because it doesn't matter what you do, they will never be happy.
Often, we grow up in families that teach us to experience guilt anytime we experience a ‘self’. Learning to accept the guilt and to continue self differentiating despite it is key❤️
Thank you so much Jerry💙⭐️⭐️I’ve been scapegoated for decades and am changing my role with your wonderful invaluable videos
You are so welcome
Always great back drops. Great environment to discuss things like this.
Did I understand correctly that making a child keep a dark family secret is a form of scapegoating the child?
Holding things (secrets) that we should have to 'hold' is a form of scapegoating and role projection
@@jerrywise t
My parents required I keep their secrets - as a very young child (under 12). During adolescence I became their scapegoat. Your explanation makes sense. The position of scapegoat is systemic as you describe it. Nothing personal.
Maybe a form of gaslighting or altering the truth so kids need to accept lies as truth? I don't know sometimes whole families keep a secret especially certain abuse so if everyone carries the secret not sure how that is a traditional scapegoat
The truth shall set us all free.
Awesome and Amazing THANK YOU
The courts and police took my family roll to a whole other level.
I mind my business help where I can
But become targeted anyway.
About to loose my home as it was vandalized and instead I was investigated and then violently beaten .
Still trying to make sense out of the senseless.
Knowing full well my kiddos are taking the brutality and my lot to their precious hearts. A quite disemboweling feeling.
Still doesn't mean I lay down and die
No matter how much people need to deflect THEIR own junk.
I'm still standing
And will continue praying for change.
thank you Mr. Wise
Thank you. This offered some very useful suggestions.
Really good..but VERY painful.
thanks,man,from Portugal!!
Glad it helped!
Thanks for watching
“Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist”
Workshop
Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC
July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time
On Zoom
Topics:
The Illusions of the Narcissist
The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists
Living in the War Zone
7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist
10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently
Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding
Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment
Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents
Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have
And more…
Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos.
Q & A
Role Plays
Volunteer participation
You will receive the recorded workshop
You will receive the notes for the workshop
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
Dank u wel!!! Tanks from the Netherlands
Pearls, just pearls!!
❤️❤️
This is the most rational advice I have heard about this subject! Painless and easy to use steps, thank you Jerry do you have any other materials such as books or e books? Do you tele council, I intend to use the techniques in the future
Yes, I do I worked with people online
Contact me at jwlearning@hotmail.com
“Standing Strong as an Adult Child of the Narcissist”
Workshop
Jerry Wise, MA, MS, CLC
July 17th, 2021 Saturday, 1-5pm Eastern time
On Zoom
Topics:
The Illusions of the Narcissist
The Trauma of Adult Children of Narcissists
Living in the War Zone
7 Things People Don’t Realize You’re Doing Because You Were Raised by a Narcissist
10 Ways Children of Narcissists Love Differently
Healing Your Inner Parts and Inner Bonding
Resisting Self-hate, Self-shaming, Self-rejection, Self-abandonment
Cutting the Emotional Umbilical Cord: Going No Contact or Low Contact with Toxic Parents
Superpowers All Adult Children of Narcissists Have
And more…
Lead by Jerry Wise Founder of Jerry Wise Relationship Systems and You-tubber of over 250 videos.
Q & A
Role Plays
Volunteer participation
You will receive the recorded workshop
You will receive the notes for the workshop
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/events
I give no supply. I process the data narcs give out. They want instant answers. I tell them i need to think about this later i will give you a statement. It drives them nuts because the lack frustration tolerance. The hate to wait. I practice observe don't absorb , Ross Rosenberg,m.a. on you tube.
My relationship with them has always been troubled.