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I have several family members who have done this to me. I'm still watching this, but wanted to note that I'm getting a lot out of this video. Thank you Jerry!
The abandoning yourself hit me hard. As a child in a shaming family I used to pretend I was someone else to forget the Shame. I’m going to remember what you said. Hold my own hand when now I get those self shaming episodes. Great message from you
This "abandonment" concept is very hard for me to grasp. It is the same as with word "rejection". Perhaps in English language it has more meaning - but as I see it - I cannot relate to it in when we talk about toxic shame - since we are in our own body, we cannot literally escape from it , so we are stuck with it. What I believe behind "abandonment" really is - is being pushover, people pleasing, fawning, self-censorship, not standing up for ourselves - that what abandonment is. That I pretend that I am not existing, that I am not important to speak up, belief that I am not significant to protest, that I am not worthy enough and that I am second or third grade of object that is not allowed to be among higher class. That is abandonment - it is toxic shame at its core. I believe this is why rude and aggressive people seems to get more in life - since they make noise, they are very loud, they are not afraid to make protest and ask for what they need at any given moment, with high entitlement beliefs. While we were growing up in narcissistic abuse where the narcissists felt entitled to make noise and to serve to their feelings and regulating them through us being silent and not needy. This is enforced by society - which is trying to curb narcissists and their exploitation of others and nature - that messages which are intended for pushy and arrogant people actually end up with us - that we must be silent, not asking for anything, that this is a sign of "good" person. The paradox is that narcissists do not listen to these societal messages at all - even though etiquette and laws and limitations and restrictions are placed for narcissists only - since they do not obey the law, they only go after their slightest and non important needs and pursuing their own pleasure and greed. It is us, who are already "good" and nice and silent and reserved that get punished by society - with tools which are intended for narcissists, bullies and abusers out there. We listen to these messages of be silent and do not argue and do not rock the boat - and this way we "abandon" ourselves - since we suppress our own needs which are realistically important.
I suffer from a serious illness i was fighting for my live during and after my diagnosis for years my mother tells me you shouldn't even still live with me at your age I was living alone when i was your age. The constant shaming is exhausting especially if you can't prevent certain circumstances that they shame you for.
I personally love you. What you are sharing here is priceless and is so welcome and needed. Thank you for being alive. Thank you for showing the rest of us the way.
This hits hard..,just today I was told for the 1000x time that “you need to exercise…you need to get that weight off” like I know I’m overweight, no one has to tell me..constantly on me about my hair and my weight…and I’m 50😞🫤
Back when I was 21 back in 1998 just to be nasty I got told to lose weight! Maybe I could have benefited from losing weight but it wasn't for them to tell me that!
Shame is such an insidious and elusive part of healing. I always thought if I punished and diminished myself enough, I would one day feel like I was enough. But it never works. It keeps me enmeshed. Healing means standing up to the critical parent we have internalized. It's nice to know I am not alone. Good luck to all those out there in the same boat and thank God for Jerry's wisdom and this channel.
Jerry, that idea about holding your own hand as you were being shamed by your boss -- I think it's brilliant. Maybe you have more of these practical self love tips to share: if so, I would love to get a video about that. Great as always 👍
Thank you for this feedback Lori, I will include more of these in my videos. I am actually working on a self differentiation tool kit you will be able to download for free. Stay tuned it is right around the corner
I always felt I was never good enough for my adopted parents. No matter how hard I tried to succeed, I would get one moment of praise, which was hard. Like for example, I didn't have the best grades in high school because at that point I didn't care much, but I pulled myself together senior year and I actually graduated. They never threw me a party.
You have a choice to do party for yourself, do something you like. You are in charge of your life, stop seeking g external approval and validation. Narsisist will never validate you
Thank you very much for this video! I just started a new job and have a lot of problems with setting boundaries at work, perfectionism and social anxiety. I have CPTSD and just started therapy. I want to be liked by my new coworkers, but not at the expense of losing myself like at my last job. After a stressful week where I was shamed by my new coworkers multiple times for not doing things exactly their way, your video helped me to calm down and see things in a different light. I think I'm now a bit better prepared for the new week ahead. One step at a time. Thank you so much!! Best greetings from Germany!
"After a stressful week where I was shamed by my new coworkers multiple times for not doing things exactly their way" Yep - it is their belief that when we do something new that it must be perfect. That is so annoying. And it is unbelievable how egocentric some people can be to actually believe that we can to the new job in the same way as we would have done it if we were doing it for 20 or 30 years. I believe this is something that needs to be vocalized - as a fact. Without arguing. Without drama, Without conflict, simply state it out when someone is critical about our errors: I am new here. I will learn it, as everyone else did. I cannot know something the first week - as I would know it if I done it for 20 years. I see that this inability to retort to critical people is huge problem with domino effect. This is because critical people - are critical. They are messed up, and they will not stop being critical when we actually do anything right. This is their mode of thinking, they are toxic, they are exploitative - and the biggest blunder with our own toxic shame is that we believe that we must be pushover and please them - so we "abandon" ourselves: we shut up. We were programmed to believe that stating the objective fact is aggression and sign that we are bad person: stating the fact that I cannot know this job right now, I need time as everyone else. We believe that if we are silent and if we do not cause the scene - that abusive and critical person will like us. But such person is incapable of love, they are predators - and we get hooked up on their approval, validation like a drug, it is addiction. That is toxic shame issue. We trauma bond with toxic people and we try to be good and nice for pursuing abuser's love and affection. Which will never happen since toxic people are sick, they are incapable of feeling love, empathy or any human emotion. In reality - if we gather courage and break toxic shame mindset of seeking approval and fawning, as we learned with Complex Trauma automatic response to trigger abuse - we will actually create change in dynamics. Most people are afraid of their reputation and most of them will avoid drama - but this will happen only if we speak up - and leave if they throw temper tantrum - so that we show we will not tolerate abuse. With toxic shame is the opposite- we stay silent, and toxic people move boundaries of common sense and courtesy more and more - they become more toxic and abusive and intolerant and discriminant with the time. And we get stuck and hooked on trauma bonding with them - trying to fix their anger and temper tantrums, which is codependency issue. From my experience - this is silence and not warning someone who is abusive and not alerting abusive person to stop and to retort to them - will enforce toxic shame and mental instability inside us. With learning about narcissistic abuse we can already know how abusers react - they gaslight and have smear campaign - they will deflect their accountability and place the blame on us - that we are over-sensitive and they use Ad Hominem arguments. When we know this in advance - we can know how to retort with objective facts and when not to engage in useless arguments. With toxic shame we were programmed to believe that stating objective facts is evil and it results in punishment, pain and hurt and it is best to stay silent and shut up.
Those statements you made to yourself I meant to support yourself made me cry. I believe its reaching the core of my shame . I hope I can heal me once and for all
This is from.my mother..."You have gotten fat again"..and this from.my sister who has never even met my husband.. "Your husband only stays with you because ypu give him money and pay the bills." They are both narcs and very unkind but Im learning loving detachment and not giving them any personal information so they can trash me as much again.
Finally realising I was a recepticle, who had no power, for both my parents toxic shame. For all their issues, a convenient bin. They should have dealt with their own issues and issues in the marriage, not made me responsible!
I can understand this horrible feeling. Jerry has a very efficient & unique way to explain what needs to be done in case of toxic shame related to childhood; it is not so common to possess this quality. Bon courage.
Oh my goodness! This video resonates with me on every level possible! I think I will have to listen to this over and over to really let these messages sink in! Thank you for all of the examples-especially your personal examples-and thank you for the clear explanations. I am pursuing myself, yet I hurt myself. Just isolating and letting my apartment become a mess is an example of physical and emotional punishing my own shame. I’m going to remember to hold my own hand when I need it. That’s a terrific idea!! I am so grateful for your videos. Thank you for this one in particular. 💕
"Don't abandon yourself" That's very very powerful Jerry! Sometimes I push the record button on my phone and I just go.. I talk to me as if I was my own guardian, so when I need some clarity about my personal journey I got it. It's like a shower for the mind believe it or not, at least for me. And honestly I really had no choice but to become my own parent.. We still here though, we still here 🔥🔥🔥 Praise God
Hi X. I was recently reflecting on how I made a video for myself a while back just letting go and having a cry over some pandemic era stress. And when I listened back, I saw myself with compassion - just another person having a rough time. I listened through my observations, all valid, and my feelings about the distressing incidents I observed. It was like some kind of self therapy, with immediate comfort and lasting insights. I found I cared about myself as much as I cared about anyone else. I am SO there for me. Complete surprise. What a healing practice. (I fear it got backed up on icloud storage, but oh well. 😆)
@@sage9836 I'm glad to read this! You were surprised? This is an interesting topic.. You see to feel TRUE love (not symphaty or simply happy emotions) towards your being, is ultimately REMEMBERING yourself, and when you do that my friend, you can also embrace every other aspect of life with more peace.. "When I look into my eyes in the mirror what do I see? Am I satisfied with it? Am I looking with a pure intent? Do I need to clean/change the mirror? Or is it my internal world that needs a cleanse/change?"
I have a book from dr. David D. Burns, original title is: Feeling good: The New mood therapy and there are examples how to deal with "must have, should have...". (I´m from middle Europe, so there migh be grammar errors :) ) He says, that statements with "should" impliy, that you have all the knowledge, all the informations..which it´s not true, so you couldn´t have known for sure that and that.. (If I knew this, I wouldn´t have done that..), so you couldn´t have done something differently, because you weren´t sure for 100%, you don´t see future, so the expectations are unrealistic. If you knew better/differently, you would have done better... Answer for "You should´ve know better"- -- "Who says that I should/ Where it is written that I should..." There is example for blaming for yourself for eating an ice cream, so you can say yourself that "It would be nice if I didn´t eat all ice cream but it isn´t the end of the world". (because punishing, blaming yourself keeps you feeling more guilty, decrease your energy and keeps you stuck in doing bad decisions, because guilt convinced you that you are a bad person. That´s why you have to break a circle. Be more realistic (you are not a God and don´t have all the answers), recognise the mistake, learn from it and make a change (but treat yourself with empathy and compassion).
Today I had a question about me and my reaction in a difficult situation, where I became really angry about an action of another person. It felt like an exclusion to me and so I got very mad about it. I didn't know why exactly I felt that way but now that I saw your video, I think, I was ashamed in this situation and instead of loving myself I didn't want to be ashamed and so I got angry. Emotions are so astonishing! 😄
Emotions are indeed astonishing! it is also important to learn what emotions are our emotions and what are 'system emotions' (When we feel a certain way but we were taught to feel that certain way) Here is a playlist of videos where I elaborate on this- ua-cam.com/play/PLoYQTW09i3W1yMM0IliWcTXjfBmNSwQKi.html
This has been some life changing info right here. I have recently found some of your videos that gave me a paradigm shift, like this one, I listened to it twice. I’m hopeful this knowledge will help with a potentially really toxic situation I have to deal with. Thank you for making this.
Thank you Jerry for always simplying these complex issues so they are able to be processed more easily. I got to the point where I realized the shaming from family members was not anything I could control nor would I allow to manipulate me. This video assists greatly with realizing the dynamics of a shame based, critical family.
Gerry, I am not familiar with your work history (Professor? Supervisor of LPCC’s, LCSW, LMHC?) Bottom line: You are an outstanding teacher!!! Family Systems therapy and all the emotional enmeshment and family ties and family roles, and neglectful parenting, lack of unconditional love, those who grew up in drug dependency families, etc., were all CLEARLY presented w/excellent examples that included shared lived experiences! Plus, those who grew up in Christian homes, family may use God as a way of shaming? “That’s not Godly.” “God wants you to do this or that.” “The Bible says YOU are being prideful.” lol 🤣🤣🤣😂 This video helped validate current issues in my own life and reminded me to NOT apply emotion to “their” issues. Because of your excellent information, I am once again, able to continue to exist in my own world of peace, joy and contentment w/out being infiltrated by noise (shaming statements, you you you, and you should have, why did you, or why don’t you’s, and you just don’t understand)…. I can actually laugh at the attempts of shaming & control. Another excellent informative and healing video!!!! Great job!!!!
As Dr. Henry Cloud would always say….Don’t let people “Should” On You. That always sticked with me! My biggest problem though was the obtaining of all this newfound Christian Based psychological knowledge and being heavily exposed to it for at least 6 years attending Monday Night Solutions each and every week, reading every book of theirs and listening to all there audio lectures but not being able to INTEGRATE it into my psyche!!! It’s still a challenge 30 years later and I’m not sure how to bridge the gap so it actually Gets IN ME.
I got the music shame as a kid! I was always the #1 sax player but didn't want to continue in high school. Dad told me it is a shame that I spit in the face of talent.
I really laught at this one about “You should just pray harder”. My mom like to act as a saint person, though I doubt she’s even tried to read bible. But she goes to church from time to time to ask for some benefits from God and uses sometimes him and religion to shame me. It’s usually in a passive aggressive shaming manner. Once, when I came to her place, she had a paper attached to her fridge with notice to pray for well-being of her son. And that was absolutely outrageous, according to how she always treats me in an emotionally abusive way. I find this passive-aggressive shaming style incredibly destructive. Insidious, spiteful, just devilish if may say so.
99.9% of people, regardless of their country or belief, do not know what is written in their own book. They live and make others live with stories.Stories that have been passed down from ear to ear for centuries. Not everyone can pass the threshold of freely questioning and thinking because in their book, this means going against God. Because they believe blindly. In this way, they are controlled and acted upon. You can overcome this by teaching her things she doesn't know from that book, but she will say that you defied God and after disowning him,she will develop prayers for your healing and for God to put you back on the right path. 😂 Don't even try it's a waste of time. If God existed, He wouldn't have created this nonsense. He wouldn't have the ego to punish and reward us with heaven and hell for the nonsense we deal with. 😂
These help me so much, especially whenever I've had a conversation with my father or particularly my mother! She shoves her emotions on me yet whenever I have or do need her im just pushed away with words and shamed simultaneously. This horrible dynamic leaves me feeling anxious as hell. She even manages it when she is talking about someone else and pings my protective side towards her, yet she doesn't have that do me. Thank you Jerry, you keep my strength going ✋✌
I don't thin that I listened to this video otherwise I think I would have commented. This is exactly where I am at. I have been practicing not abandoning myself even while I feel other people shaming me. Granted that may take many different forms. Sometimes it is about standing up to the other person and sometimes it is about ignoring them and sometimes it is about walking away. Checking in with myself. Am I dissociating? Why? Stuff like that..
Yep! From my own experience of fawning, people pleasing and being pushover and codependent victim role - I learned that cutting contact with anyone toxic is healing for me. Ignoring them, stone walling, muting. If someone is toxic - they are gone, without hating them, without seeking justice, without arguing - I still love them, I still have respect for them as human beings, but if they are toxic - they are not part of my life anymore. Before I was convinced that there is a certain quota or norm or certain number of how many people I can cut out. Now I learned that I can vibe alone until I meet the right people. And due to social anxiety issues - I already isolate myself, so there will simply be no more pursuing and seeking approval and validation from toxic people who are not interested in me anyway.
From experience, I would caution against trusting any, "Pastors" or religious types, especially in seeking support with shame. Way too many narcissistic and predatory folks in this field, way, WAY too many!!
It’s normal for it to feel odd if that was our normal our entire life, I recommend joining my free training to start making this way of thinking your new normal ❤️ jerrywise.ewebinar.com/webinar/build-the-self-you-were-never-allowed-to-have-10027
Great advice!! I don't explain myself to shaming comments anymore. They don't seem to get it. All I say is I'm sorry you feel that way. If they continue I just repeat I'm sorry you feel that way as many times as it takes to get them to buzz off It eventually works and pisses them off.
Thank you Jerry. Right on time. I actually smile at how rediculous we often execute relating like kids. " well, pray harder for me."... that was hilarious; it made my day 😄 🎉
God has given you a gift. You so understand this horrible experience. I wish I had you during high school or the understanding of what w as really causing my depression. I could have stood up for myself, or at least feel better and why I felt so bad about myself all the time.
Thank you so much for your work!! I got some real gems out of this talk… been working on the stuff for a long time and I really appreciate what you are offering . thank you
Toxic shame is at the core of trauma and abuse. There is a lack of correct information about toxic shame and as soon as I heard in video "Remember you are not them and they are not you." I knew this is expert talking. There are a lot of videos about pushover issues, social anxiety, cognitive distortions, people pleasing, inferiority complex, low confidence - and these are all related to toxic shame while 99% of videos will instruct you to more shame and they will not mention toxic shame concept nor complex trauma as the motor and not even toxic people and toxic ambient that keeps all these trauma issues ongoing. "When we experience shame, first think I am not them, they are not me" - this is lesson I learned very hard since trauma bonding is automatic process and habit from living with toxic shame in toxic ambient for long time. I learned that this could be done as with social media: ignoring, blocking, muting - relentlessly and without exclusions or normalizations nor rationalizations and explanations of abuse as something to endure for higher purpose. I started to make a list of retort to narcissistic abuse and toxic shaming, I will add these on my blog list of Retort: "I refuse to fuse with them, I am not them, they are not me. I don't control nor cause their thoughts or feelings I wish I could see it that way, but I don't. I see you sound so disappointed, that must be very uncomfortable Does it worry you, it doesn't worry me. If you feel that, I can't change that. I am not all knowing. Do you believe it was done on purpose? I don't remember having that purpose." I like using word Retort - because it is like being in Court where I advocate myself from being wrongly accused by someone highly manipulative and highly conflict personality. "She's not arguing, she is telling her experience or affirming what his experience is." Yep, this was missing puzzle for me. I understood that arguing with covert narcissist keeps Karpman Drama Triangle ongoing - and this is where I got stuck in dead end - it was Catch 22: that if I shut up I condone to abuse, and if I speak up I am keeping abuse ongoing since narcissists and aggressive borderliners like drama and conflict. This was missing puzzle: stating facts is not arguing. It is being objective - that is not attacking anyone. I was so toxically ashamed that I believed all this time that any form of speaking back to abuser is conflict, confrontation and something bad. IT is not. Speaking the truth, being objective, stating the facts is not arguing - even though abuser will turn it into conflict and use Ad Hominem to make drama and hysteria and elicit reactive abuse so that they could play victim afterwards. This is impossible when there are objective facts. "You can have your experience Jack, I can have mine." Yes, this is message we were not being told while growing up. Instead there was only one experience - of the abuser, the ultimate truth which I had to obey and be subservient and believe in it. My side of story was non existent and met with punishment if spoken. Bullying and mobbing - the panic inside that accompanies toxic shame is like inner child wanting us to protect ourselves - that we do not stay in such situation and that we do not bring ourselves in toxic ambient. This need re-constructions in our mind to shift our beliefs - for example - that we realize that is it money and profit really so much important over mental health and staying in abusive ambient - does the all money compensate - for what? To impress people who would not care for us for a second? Can I lower my expenses and not depend on toxic job that I might choose due to money? And another belief is related to being courageous - to state objective facts. Bullying and mobbing is criminal activity - it is stemming from person who is criminal, psychopath. This means, we need to document it and see if there are grounds for legal act. We saw this with Johnny Depp as he documented Amber's abuse - without documentation he would be labeled as abuser and he would be bankrupt now, losing his career and reputation and employment in his industry.
Thanks a lot! I wish I was aware of all of your work much much earlier. I am very resilient by nature and managed to regain the total respect of my toxic family, by arguing . All you are saying about the scapegoat, the toxic shaming ; I can ensure you I am relating to it far too well. And when I saw the part about reactive adults, a flash coming with the picture of my elder sister, who hugely suffered and especially suffering from it. I am not American nor from any English speaking countries, but I want to translate into French some of the work you provide and the content of your web channel if You allow me to do this, the time come.
John Bradshaw is amazing and very knowledgeable about narcissism. I will also check out the other boos as well. Thanks for the recommendations and video!
I catch my husband shaming our children--something his own mother still does to him and his brother--and I tell my husband, "Please don't shame the kids. You're teaching them A, B, C when you do that." And of course, he doesn't realize the damage he causes with shaming because he's unempathetic and cannot see that he parents like his own mother.
Yep, that is called "Crap fitting". Anna Runkle with Crappy childhood fairy channel explained it in her videos. Toxic shame is form of lobotomy, attempt to make us into Philosophical Zombie, NPC Wojak - person without own voice, without own preferences, without own distinctions, without own objections, it is road to conformism, group think and herd mentality. In reality most people value polarizing - especially if it is done without drama, attack, explosions or aggression: stating the objective facts from our side.
My parents always said 'should' you should have done that you should have said this instead. You shouldn't have said that etc etc you should have known.
Mine waits for opportune moments to snidely tell me to go to church yet has said time and time again they don't think there are Christians in churches, expressed hostility towards them to the point of praising vandalism of worship equipment, and absolutely reels at the counter suggestion he go himself. All while putting on a sickeningly performative religious act during the holidays that is eerily hollow. As a child I experienced religious abuse with this same parent convincing me I was imminently going to have to make the choice to have my head chopped off for my faith, and just making everything feel somewhat surreal. Also convinced me that everyday objects could become possessed with demons, scaring me so much I voluntarily got rid of all my childhood toys I was still young enough to like, my dolls and stuffed animals.
I had food shaming myself at a carvery place when stupid idiots were criticising how much i was eating recently and i said to them dont you know thats rude?
Hi, I just wanted to say great video! I’ve been struggling with trying to change my old ways and the way you convey this topic really helps me to understand more in depth about what’s going on internally. I really appreciate you, thanks!
You could try out cheap forms of therapy by way of Self Help books. I have amassed many, so far I like most: Lisa A Romano's "Codependent:Now What?", Christiane Northrup's "Dodging Energy Vampires", Shahida Arabia's book on sensitive people surviving Narcissists. I am a fan of Melanie Tonya Evans'NARP meditations that you can sample for free on her UA-cam channel under "Shifts Happen" titles. In I also recommend David Celani's book "Leaving Home"... I got the understanding and validation from this book that I needed, specifically it identified how adult children from dysfunctional homes need to find a substitute family/mentor in order to finally break from the mind trap they are in. You can also look into CODA meetings, that run for free around the world and attend there and use their library and resources pretty much all for free. I also recommend keeping a diary. Lastly, consider the possibility of having some hidden disability that because it is unacknowledged, brings a whole lot of unfair shame onto you. In fact, your family likely share this, but make you the identified patient or scapegoat. For me, I self identified Asperger's traits, with the knowledge that this condition some variation to it. My own journey with struggling to gain independence as an adult has had a significant amount to do with this and being in a world that ignores the sensory differences that I genuinely have. The rest of my struggles, however, have come from shaming for my difference and struggle to be like everyone else... And the worst shaming often came from family and others close to me or with similar but different traits. I would actually say that the second obstacle has by far been the hardest; namely, that of narcissistic abuse. I have torn through relationships, fromy perspective because I put out grew so many of them. But those relationships made it an extra struggle to break free. ...in my opinion there are an awful lot of people with unrecognised disabilities or quasi disabilities, who then cope with this by choosing targets to feel power over and even abuse. ...I can also recommend the old movie "Marty", which illustrates just how people closest to you can be your worst enemies, leeching off of you all the while that they brainwash you into believing that YOU are the weak one.
@@lonelyheartcowgirl8529 "Jordon Peterson" Jordan Peterson is highly narcissistic and toxic shame based without him realizing it. He is abusive and ashaming to Greta, Canadian PM, trans gender individuals and he frequently ashames people pleasing as disease - while fawning is trauma reaction, it is conditioning - not personality flaw neither character defect as he describes it. Instead of him there are healthy alternatives: Robert Greene , Adam Grant, Jon Sutton, Steve Stewart-Williams, Dan Ariely - they all have google quotes as quick reference and most importantly - twitter, so there is interactive community out there.
@@lambchop6278 Lisa Romano is amazing, she is rare voice that clearly explains trauma and what to do about it. Feeling like I had right to tell someone what to do, I had the right to jump and try to fix someone's life, I had right to offer my opinion. I shutty shutty. No - I don't have right to tell someone how to live their life. It is not up to me to fix that person's life. Lisa Romano You feel out of control, your belief system have you believed you have to control something you can't control - someone else's behaviour, how someone else perceive you. You look for validation, you think you do need it. YT Codependency Lisa A. Romano It's not up to me to jump in and rescue that person. It's up to this person to get the help they need, ask for the help they need and to focus on themselves. I don't deserve the glory of that person's rescue. That's up to them. YT Codependency Lisa Romano Grow up in a home where the rules are oppressive, never allowed to express yourself, withdraw in yourself, not allowed to think, feel, supercritical, condemning home, feel persecuted, not allowed to talk about truth. YT Codependency Lisa A. Romano Strong emotions like love and safety and trust can also create new neural pathways and basically get the brain out of the state of emotional arrest which is emotional paralysis. My brain was wired for survival. YT Codependency Lisa A. Romano I was developing servitude for Self. I was serving my Self, I was serving my ideas, serving my decision process. I was detaching from needing other people to make decisions for me and to comfort me. Stop seeking approval. YT Codependency Lisa A. Romano When we're dealing with codependency, we're dealing with below the veil issue. When you're codependent, you don't know it - you are living beneath the veil of consciousness. Living in auto pilot reactive existence. YT Lisa A. Romano Victimblaming If you come from dysfunctional family, you don't have tools you need to gain perspective. It is not your fault. If it is difficult for you to disengage, when narcissist get angry, you must know this is not your fault. Lisa Romano Deep feeling of inadequacy makes it difficult to follow our intuition. We look for humans, imperfect just like us, for a clue - that we are enough. We look for somebody else to give us permission to feel our feelings. YT Lisa A. Romano There was deficiency how you were nurtured. And that is not your fault. If you crave validation that is because you didn't get validated enough or properly as child, something went wrong. Child assumes blame, which is where shame comes from. Lisa A. Romano If you come from home where you have been continually denied and neglected and ignored, you don't have a perception of Self. I had been running my life completely reacted to what was happening outside of me unaware who am I. YT Lisa A. Romano Victimblaming That person who's judging you and persecuting you, to them it makes sense. They've twisted in their heads to make sense. Highly emotional you might end up really triggered by what someone else is saying. YT Lisa A. Romano Victimblaming I would berate myself, I'm just selfish, I'm not good enough, I'm not trying hard enough, it's me. This person's perfect, everyone loves him. I fell into narrative that was created in me when I was a child. Brain wired to think - wrong with me. Lisa Romano
If you haven’t already, I would love to have you join my training, it’s completely free. you can join here: jerrywise.ewebinar.com/webinar/build-the-self-you-were-never-allowed-to-have-10027
Shame around musical abilities are usually in the Direction of not performin (unless you're the "Talented" Golden Child). We are told we sho should become an investment banker or something like. As a person with the learning disability and an interest in jazz that was never really able to perform classical music. became people consider themselves intellectuals do not like people that can't sigh Mozart sonata perfectly. And some of the plays Oregon I often get it for not being at Church musician. One of my original inspirations was a theater organ installed in a pizza parlor, although when I got more confident of playing music I became more of a jazz musician and if I was at work and I'm more commercial setting being a side man and a blues or an R&B setting as opposed to trying to sound like Lawrence Welk. I also had some little lady come up to me while I was playing in a bar and tell me how it would be so much fun for me if I played in the church, in my experience church music programs are not fun I nearly had a piano fallboard slammed on my hands what happened in a bar. Having to lead a tone deaf congregation in song is also a miserable experience.
Thanks so much again Jerry 🙋♀️🙏💝!! Your presentation on the subject of “shame” has really helped me see things in a different way. It also has given me the tools I need me to prepare for any future shame attacks by others and myself. 🙌🙌💯💪👏👏👏👏
Finally get your family OUT OF YOU & be the true self you were never allowed to be 👇
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I have several family members who have done this to me. I'm still watching this, but wanted to note that I'm getting a lot out of this video. Thank you Jerry!
@@anitar2928 Thank you Anita, i'm glad the video is helping you!
The person wanting fusion just wants to control another person.
The abandoning yourself hit me hard. As a child in a shaming family I used to pretend I was someone else to forget the Shame. I’m going to remember what you said. Hold my own hand when now I get those self shaming episodes. Great message from you
This "abandonment" concept is very hard for me to grasp. It is the same as with word "rejection". Perhaps in English language it has more meaning - but as I see it - I cannot relate to it in when we talk about toxic shame - since we are in our own body, we cannot literally escape from it , so we are stuck with it.
What I believe behind "abandonment" really is - is being pushover, people pleasing, fawning, self-censorship, not standing up for ourselves - that what abandonment is. That I pretend that I am not existing, that I am not important to speak up, belief that I am not significant to protest, that I am not worthy enough and that I am second or third grade of object that is not allowed to be among higher class. That is abandonment - it is toxic shame at its core.
I believe this is why rude and aggressive people seems to get more in life - since they make noise, they are very loud, they are not afraid to make protest and ask for what they need at any given moment, with high entitlement beliefs.
While we were growing up in narcissistic abuse where the narcissists felt entitled to make noise and to serve to their feelings and regulating them through us being silent and not needy. This is enforced by society - which is trying to curb narcissists and their exploitation of others and nature - that messages which are intended for pushy and arrogant people actually end up with us - that we must be silent, not asking for anything, that this is a sign of "good" person. The paradox is that narcissists do not listen to these societal messages at all - even though etiquette and laws and limitations and restrictions are placed for narcissists only - since they do not obey the law, they only go after their slightest and non important needs and pursuing their own pleasure and greed.
It is us, who are already "good" and nice and silent and reserved that get punished by society - with tools which are intended for narcissists, bullies and abusers out there. We listen to these messages of be silent and do not argue and do not rock the boat - and this way we "abandon" ourselves - since we suppress our own needs which are realistically important.
Me too i got a whole new identity via make up hair etc and tried changing my name
I suffer from a serious illness i was fighting for my live during and after my diagnosis for years my mother tells me you shouldn't even still live with me at your age I was living alone when i was your age. The constant shaming is exhausting especially if you can't prevent certain circumstances that they shame you for.
i am not them, they are not me 💯🙏
I personally love you. What you are sharing here is priceless and is so welcome and needed. Thank you for being alive. Thank you for showing the rest of us the way.
You are so kind, thank you very much I'm glad my work is helping you
I feel the same! Jerry is the best Psychologist I ever heard all my life. He should write a textbook for Universities, and any person in the world. ❤❤
I don’t want any relationship with a narcissist.
Refuse to abandon ourselves! ❤️
We are the only ones that can totally NOT abandon ourselves.
This hits hard..,just today I was told for the 1000x time that “you need to exercise…you need to get that weight off” like I know I’m overweight, no one has to tell me..constantly on me about my hair and my weight…and I’m 50😞🫤
Back when I was 21 back in 1998 just to be nasty I got told to lose weight!
Maybe I could have benefited from losing weight but it wasn't for them to tell me that!
Shame is such an insidious and elusive part of healing. I always thought if I punished and diminished myself enough, I would one day feel like I was enough. But it never works. It keeps me enmeshed. Healing means standing up to the critical parent we have internalized. It's nice to know I am not alone. Good luck to all those out there in the same boat and thank God for Jerry's wisdom and this channel.
“But, thanks for worrying” 😂 I feel like you know my mother.
Or my mother in law😮
Jerry, that idea about holding your own hand as you were being shamed by your boss -- I think it's brilliant. Maybe you have more of these practical self love tips to share: if so, I would love to get a video about that. Great as always 👍
Thank you for this feedback Lori, I will include more of these in my videos. I am actually working on a self differentiation tool kit you will be able to download for free. Stay tuned it is right around the corner
Glad you mentioned this. I am eager for his toolkit.
I always felt I was never good enough for my adopted parents. No matter how hard I tried to succeed, I would get one moment of praise, which was hard. Like for example, I didn't have the best grades in high school because at that point I didn't care much, but I pulled myself together senior year and I actually graduated. They never threw me a party.
Don't feel sad...
My real parents never a give d*mn abt me... Instead all I receive neglect, pain, shame, heartache....
Cause they're narc...
You have a choice to do party for yourself, do something you like. You are in charge of your life, stop seeking g external approval and validation. Narsisist will never validate you
Showing love for yourself seems like the hardest thing ever... especially for mistakes. If I could love myself for mistakes... that would be powerful.
Thank you very much for this video! I just started a new job and have a lot of problems with setting boundaries at work, perfectionism and social anxiety. I have CPTSD and just started therapy. I want to be liked by my new coworkers, but not at the expense of losing myself like at my last job. After a stressful week where I was shamed by my new coworkers multiple times for not doing things exactly their way, your video helped me to calm down and see things in a different light. I think I'm now a bit better prepared for the new week ahead. One step at a time. Thank you so much!! Best greetings from Germany!
"After a stressful week where I was shamed by my new coworkers multiple times for not doing things exactly their way"
Yep - it is their belief that when we do something new that it must be perfect. That is so annoying. And it is unbelievable how egocentric some people can be to actually believe that we can to the new job in the same way as we would have done it if we were doing it for 20 or 30 years.
I believe this is something that needs to be vocalized - as a fact. Without arguing. Without drama, Without conflict, simply state it out when someone is critical about our errors: I am new here. I will learn it, as everyone else did. I cannot know something the first week - as I would know it if I done it for 20 years.
I see that this inability to retort to critical people is huge problem with domino effect.
This is because critical people - are critical. They are messed up, and they will not stop being critical when we actually do anything right. This is their mode of thinking, they are toxic, they are exploitative -
and the biggest blunder with our own toxic shame is that we believe that we must be pushover and please them - so we "abandon" ourselves: we shut up. We were programmed to believe that stating the objective fact is aggression and sign that we are bad person: stating the fact that I cannot know this job right now, I need time as everyone else.
We believe that if we are silent and if we do not cause the scene - that abusive and critical person will like us. But such person is incapable of love, they are predators - and we get hooked up on their approval, validation like a drug, it is addiction.
That is toxic shame issue. We trauma bond with toxic people and we try to be good and nice for pursuing abuser's love and affection. Which will never happen since toxic people are sick, they are incapable of feeling love, empathy or any human emotion.
In reality - if we gather courage and break toxic shame mindset of seeking approval and fawning, as we learned with Complex Trauma automatic response to trigger abuse - we will actually create change in dynamics.
Most people are afraid of their reputation and most of them will avoid drama - but this will happen only if we speak up - and leave if they throw temper tantrum - so that we show we will not tolerate abuse.
With toxic shame is the opposite- we stay silent, and toxic people move boundaries of common sense and courtesy more and more - they become more toxic and abusive and intolerant and discriminant with the time. And we get stuck and hooked on trauma bonding with them - trying to fix their anger and temper tantrums, which is codependency issue.
From my experience - this is silence and not warning someone who is abusive and not alerting abusive person to stop and to retort to them - will enforce toxic shame and mental instability inside us.
With learning about narcissistic abuse we can already know how abusers react - they gaslight and have smear campaign - they will deflect their accountability and place the blame on us - that we are over-sensitive and they use Ad Hominem arguments. When we know this in advance - we can know how to retort with objective facts and when not to engage in useless arguments. With toxic shame we were programmed to believe that stating objective facts is evil and it results in punishment, pain and hurt and it is best to stay silent and shut up.
For a long time I confused toxic shame with feelings of guilt.
Those statements you made to yourself I meant to support yourself made me cry. I believe its reaching the core of my shame . I hope I can heal me once and for all
This is from.my mother..."You have gotten fat again"..and this from.my sister who has never even met my husband.. "Your husband only stays with you because ypu give him money and pay the bills." They are both narcs and very unkind but Im learning loving detachment and not giving them any personal information so they can trash me as much again.
I’m sorry you’ve suffered that cruel treatment from your mother and sister. I hope you find healing.
I have had the fat insult thrown my way many times as well!
Finally realising I was a recepticle, who had no power, for both my parents toxic shame. For all their issues, a convenient bin. They should have dealt with their own issues and issues in the marriage, not made me responsible!
I can understand this horrible feeling. Jerry has a very efficient & unique way to explain what needs to be done in case of toxic shame related to childhood; it is not so common to possess this quality. Bon courage.
@nadavicsandon6894 all the best to you too 👋👍
Oh my goodness! This video resonates with me on every level possible! I think I will have to listen to this over and over to really let these messages sink in! Thank you for all of the examples-especially your personal examples-and thank you for the clear explanations. I am pursuing myself, yet I hurt myself. Just isolating and letting my apartment become a mess is an example of physical and emotional punishing my own shame.
I’m going to remember to hold my own hand when I need it. That’s a terrific idea!!
I am so grateful for your videos. Thank you for this one in particular. 💕
"Don't abandon yourself" That's very very powerful Jerry! Sometimes I push the record button on my phone and I just go.. I talk to me as if I was my own guardian, so when I need some clarity about my personal journey I got it. It's like a shower for the mind believe it or not, at least for me. And honestly I really had no choice but to become my own parent.. We still here though, we still here 🔥🔥🔥 Praise God
Hi X. I was recently reflecting on how I made a video for myself a while back just letting go and having a cry over some pandemic era stress. And when I listened back, I saw myself with compassion - just another person having a rough time. I listened through my observations, all valid, and my feelings about the distressing incidents I observed. It was like some kind of self therapy, with immediate comfort and lasting insights. I found I cared about myself as much as I cared about anyone else. I am SO there for me. Complete surprise. What a healing practice. (I fear it got backed up on icloud storage, but oh well. 😆)
@@sage9836 I'm glad to read this! You were surprised? This is an interesting topic.. You see to feel TRUE love (not symphaty or simply happy emotions) towards your being, is ultimately REMEMBERING yourself, and when you do that my friend, you can also embrace every other aspect of life with more peace.. "When I look into my eyes in the mirror what do I see? Am I satisfied with it? Am I looking with a pure intent? Do I need to clean/change the mirror? Or is it my internal world that needs a cleanse/change?"
What is good to say if somebody says "You should've known better"?
That is a good video! So well explained. Thank you!
“That’s your opinion not mine”
I have a book from dr. David D. Burns, original title is: Feeling good: The New mood therapy
and there are examples how to deal with "must have, should have...".
(I´m from middle Europe, so there migh be grammar errors :) )
He says, that statements with "should" impliy, that you have all the knowledge, all the informations..which it´s not true, so you couldn´t have known for sure that and that..
(If I knew this, I wouldn´t have done that..), so you couldn´t have done something differently, because you weren´t sure for 100%, you don´t see future, so the expectations are unrealistic.
If you knew better/differently, you would have done better...
Answer for "You should´ve know better"- -- "Who says that I should/ Where it is written that I should..."
There is example for blaming for yourself for eating an ice cream, so you can say yourself that "It would be nice if I didn´t eat all ice cream but it isn´t the end of the world".
(because punishing, blaming yourself keeps you feeling more guilty, decrease your energy and keeps you stuck in doing bad decisions, because guilt convinced you that you are a bad person.
That´s why you have to break a circle. Be more realistic (you are not a God and don´t have all the answers), recognise the mistake, learn from it and make a change (but treat yourself with empathy and compassion).
Today I had a question about me and my reaction in a difficult situation, where I became really angry about an action of another person. It felt like an exclusion to me and so I got very mad about it. I didn't know why exactly I felt that way but now that I saw your video, I think, I was ashamed in this situation and instead of loving myself I didn't want to be ashamed and so I got angry. Emotions are so astonishing! 😄
Emotions are indeed astonishing! it is also important to learn what emotions are our emotions and what are 'system emotions' (When we feel a certain way but we were taught to feel that certain way)
Here is a playlist of videos where I elaborate on this- ua-cam.com/play/PLoYQTW09i3W1yMM0IliWcTXjfBmNSwQKi.html
This has been some life changing info right here. I have recently found some of your videos that gave me a paradigm shift, like this one, I listened to it twice. I’m hopeful this knowledge will help with a potentially really toxic situation I have to deal with. Thank you for making this.
Jerry, you are absolutely amazing. I hope you know how much your videos are helping me staying strong and true to myself.
Wonderful!
Thank you so much for this. Words cannot convey how much I needed to hear your wise words.
I'm so glad it was helpful, you are very welcome ❤️
Thank you Jerry for always simplying these complex issues so they are able to be processed more easily. I got to the point where I realized the shaming from family members was not anything I could control nor would I allow to manipulate me. This video assists greatly with realizing the dynamics of a shame based, critical family.
Problem is with my dad, you literally can't say ANYTHING because he'll keep arguing back no matter what.
6:00 if you need to believe that I’m not sure I can change your mind
17:00 internal shame attacks
Gerry, I am not familiar with your work history (Professor? Supervisor of LPCC’s, LCSW, LMHC?) Bottom line: You are an outstanding teacher!!!
Family Systems therapy and all the emotional enmeshment and family ties and family roles, and neglectful parenting, lack of unconditional love, those who grew up in drug dependency families, etc., were all CLEARLY presented w/excellent examples that included shared lived experiences! Plus, those who grew up in Christian homes, family may use God as a way of shaming? “That’s not Godly.” “God wants you to do this or that.” “The Bible says YOU are being prideful.” lol 🤣🤣🤣😂
This video helped validate current issues in my own life and reminded me to NOT apply emotion to “their” issues.
Because of your excellent information, I am once again, able to continue to exist in my own world of peace, joy and contentment w/out being infiltrated by noise (shaming statements, you you you, and you should have, why did you, or why don’t you’s, and you just don’t understand)…. I can actually laugh at the attempts of shaming & control.
Another excellent informative and healing video!!!! Great job!!!!
As Dr. Henry Cloud would always say….Don’t let people “Should” On You. That always sticked with me! My biggest problem though was the obtaining of all this newfound Christian Based psychological knowledge and being heavily exposed to it for at least 6 years attending Monday Night Solutions each and every week, reading every book of theirs and listening to all there audio lectures but not being able to INTEGRATE it into my psyche!!! It’s still a challenge 30 years later and I’m not sure how to bridge the gap so it actually Gets IN ME.
I got the music shame as a kid! I was always the #1 sax player but didn't want to continue in high school. Dad told me it is a shame that I spit in the face of talent.
I'm sorry about this Robert
finally! Someone explains these weird attacks I've had all my life. Thanks Jerry
You’re welcome!
Beautiful and deeply useful video. I am saving it to relisten regularly, when the old patterns take over.
I really laught at this one about “You should just pray harder”. My mom like to act as a saint person, though I doubt she’s even tried to read bible. But she goes to church from time to time to ask for some benefits from God and uses sometimes him and religion to shame me. It’s usually in a passive aggressive shaming manner. Once, when I came to her place, she had a paper attached to her fridge with notice to pray for well-being of her son. And that was absolutely outrageous, according to how she always treats me in an emotionally abusive way.
I find this passive-aggressive shaming style incredibly destructive. Insidious, spiteful, just devilish if may say so.
99.9% of people, regardless of their country or belief, do not know what is written in their own book. They live and make others live with stories.Stories that have been passed down from ear to ear for centuries. Not everyone can pass the threshold of freely questioning and thinking because in their book, this means going against God. Because they believe blindly. In this way, they are controlled and acted upon. You can overcome this by teaching her things she doesn't know from that book, but she will say that you defied God and after disowning him,she will develop prayers for your healing and for God to put you back on the right path. 😂 Don't even try it's a waste of time. If God existed, He wouldn't have created this nonsense. He wouldn't have the ego to punish and reward us with heaven and hell for the nonsense we deal with. 😂
Back in 1998 when i was 21 i got shamed for going out to places alone and got told i was weird for having done those things!
These help me so much, especially whenever I've had a conversation with my father or particularly my mother! She shoves her emotions on me yet whenever I have or do need her im just pushed away with words and shamed simultaneously. This horrible dynamic leaves me feeling anxious as hell. She even manages it when she is talking about someone else and pings my protective side towards her, yet she doesn't have that do me. Thank you Jerry, you keep my strength going ✋✌
I don't thin that I listened to this video otherwise I think I would have commented. This is exactly where I am at. I have been practicing not abandoning myself even while I feel other people shaming me. Granted that may take many different forms. Sometimes it is about standing up to the other person and sometimes it is about ignoring them and sometimes it is about walking away. Checking in with myself. Am I dissociating? Why? Stuff like that..
Yep!
From my own experience of fawning, people pleasing and being pushover and codependent victim role - I learned that cutting contact with anyone toxic is healing for me. Ignoring them, stone walling, muting. If someone is toxic - they are gone, without hating them, without seeking justice, without arguing - I still love them, I still have respect for them as human beings, but if they are toxic - they are not part of my life anymore. Before I was convinced that there is a certain quota or norm or certain number of how many people I can cut out. Now I learned that I can vibe alone until I meet the right people. And due to social anxiety issues - I already isolate myself, so there will simply be no more pursuing and seeking approval and validation from toxic people who are not interested in me anyway.
So glad for another WISE video!
Thank you Joe!
From experience, I would caution against trusting any, "Pastors" or religious types, especially in seeking support with shame. Way too many narcissistic and predatory folks in this field, way, WAY too many!!
This advice makes me feel so much better, I needed to hear this, thank you for sharing these truths. Take care.
age-shaming as well!
Thanks GOD you didn't listed to your mom. You work its amazing!!
Thank you Jerry it is so hard to think of shame and blame as pursue! Help us! Teach us to think in a systems way! It makes sense but it feels odd!
It’s normal for it to feel odd if that was our normal our entire life, I recommend joining my free training to start making this way of thinking your new normal ❤️
jerrywise.ewebinar.com/webinar/build-the-self-you-were-never-allowed-to-have-10027
Great advice!!
I don't explain myself to shaming comments anymore. They don't seem to get it. All I say is I'm sorry you feel that way. If they continue I just repeat I'm sorry you feel that way as many times as it takes to get them to buzz off
It eventually works and pisses them off.
Amazing video. I think I need to put a sticky note up reminding me that it is them not me, and not to abandon myself. Thank you.
Thank you Jerry. Right on time. I actually smile at how rediculous we often execute relating like kids.
" well, pray harder for me."... that was hilarious; it made my day 😄 🎉
healing words on the self shaming attacks part Jerry. resonate with this video a lot. much appreciated as always.
Your videos have been so helpful in understanding behavior coming from my family and how to respond.
I’m glad the video was helpful to you Mary
God has given you a gift. You so understand this horrible experience. I wish I had you during high school or the understanding of what w as really causing my depression. I could have stood up for myself, or at least feel better and why I felt so bad about myself all the time.
Great topic!! No one discusses the dynamics of shame. Tysm 😊
Thank you and you are very welcome! I hope my videos help more people be aware of the dynamics of shame
Love this video. It's practical and it helps a lot.
I’m glad it was helpful Krista, thank you for watching!
Thank you so much for your work!! I got some real gems out of this talk… been working on the stuff for a long time and I really appreciate what you are offering . thank you
Wow, observer role sounds amazing. Thank you so much, Jerry!!!!!
Toxic shame is at the core of trauma and abuse. There is a lack of correct information about toxic shame and as soon as I heard in video
"Remember you are not them and they are not you."
I knew this is expert talking.
There are a lot of videos about pushover issues, social anxiety, cognitive distortions, people pleasing, inferiority complex, low confidence - and these are all related to toxic shame while 99% of videos will instruct you to more shame and they will not mention toxic shame concept nor complex trauma as the motor and not even toxic people and toxic ambient that keeps all these trauma issues ongoing.
"When we experience shame, first think I am not them, they are not me" - this is lesson I learned very hard since trauma bonding is automatic process and habit from living with toxic shame in toxic ambient for long time. I learned that this could be done as with social media: ignoring, blocking, muting - relentlessly and without exclusions or normalizations nor rationalizations and explanations of abuse as something to endure for higher purpose.
I started to make a list of retort to narcissistic abuse and toxic shaming, I will add these on my blog list of Retort:
"I refuse to fuse with them, I am not them, they are not me. I don't control nor cause their thoughts or feelings
I wish I could see it that way, but I don't.
I see you sound so disappointed, that must be very uncomfortable
Does it worry you, it doesn't worry me.
If you feel that, I can't change that.
I am not all knowing.
Do you believe it was done on purpose? I don't remember having that purpose."
I like using word Retort - because it is like being in Court where I advocate myself from being wrongly accused by someone highly manipulative and highly conflict personality.
"She's not arguing, she is telling her experience or affirming what his experience is."
Yep, this was missing puzzle for me.
I understood that arguing with covert narcissist keeps Karpman Drama Triangle ongoing - and this is where I got stuck in dead end - it was Catch 22: that if I shut up I condone to abuse, and if I speak up I am keeping abuse ongoing since narcissists and aggressive borderliners like drama and conflict.
This was missing puzzle: stating facts is not arguing. It is being objective - that is not attacking anyone. I was so toxically ashamed that I believed all this time that any form of speaking back to abuser is conflict, confrontation and something bad. IT is not. Speaking the truth, being objective, stating the facts is not arguing - even though abuser will turn it into conflict and use Ad Hominem to make drama and hysteria and elicit reactive abuse so that they could play victim afterwards. This is impossible when there are objective facts.
"You can have your experience Jack, I can have mine."
Yes, this is message we were not being told while growing up. Instead there was only one experience - of the abuser, the ultimate truth which I had to obey and be subservient and believe in it. My side of story was non existent and met with punishment if spoken.
Bullying and mobbing - the panic inside that accompanies toxic shame is like inner child wanting us to protect ourselves - that we do not stay in such situation and that we do not bring ourselves in toxic ambient. This need re-constructions in our mind to shift our beliefs -
for example - that we realize that is it money and profit really so much important over mental health and staying in abusive ambient - does the all money compensate - for what? To impress people who would not care for us for a second? Can I lower my expenses and not depend on toxic job that I might choose due to money?
And another belief is related to being courageous - to state objective facts. Bullying and mobbing is criminal activity - it is stemming from person who is criminal, psychopath. This means, we need to document it and see if there are grounds for legal act. We saw this with Johnny Depp as he documented Amber's abuse - without documentation he would be labeled as abuser and he would be bankrupt now, losing his career and reputation and employment in his industry.
Never thought about the pursuit aspect!
I'm glad it resonated Beth
Thanks a lot! I wish I was aware of all of your work much much earlier. I am very resilient by nature and managed to regain the total respect of my toxic family, by arguing . All you are saying about the scapegoat, the toxic shaming ; I can ensure you I am relating to it far too well. And when I saw the part about reactive adults, a flash coming with the picture of my elder sister, who hugely suffered and especially suffering from it. I am not American nor from any English speaking countries, but I want to translate into French some of the work you provide and the content of your web channel if You allow me to do this, the time come.
John Bradshaw is amazing and very knowledgeable about narcissism. I will also check out the other boos as well. Thanks for the recommendations and video!
Thank you for stating it so clearly!
I like your suggestions for the self-help kit. Thank you! And I appreciate your book recommendations.
This was amazing 😢life changing video.
Thank you for this wonderful video! I feel and see this life in your words❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I catch my husband shaming our children--something his own mother still does to him and his brother--and I tell my husband, "Please don't shame the kids. You're teaching them A, B, C when you do that." And of course, he doesn't realize the damage he causes with shaming because he's unempathetic and cannot see that he parents like his own mother.
Bek-ee?
This was really helpful. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful Linda, you are very welcome
This is priceless.❤
wow, I didn't know that when I had a shame attack, I needed something. 22:30 That's helpful for me! Thank you.
This can happen at a workplace too
Validating. ❤❤
Wow I’m happy to see point number 3.
🕊 Thank you Sir for sharing !
Thank you for your support Erol, I truly truly appreciate it!
Really great video.
9:08 That hit me hard - never thought of it that way! Thank you for your videos and your invaluable advice 💛
Yep, that is called "Crap fitting". Anna Runkle with Crappy childhood fairy channel explained it in her videos.
Toxic shame is form of lobotomy, attempt to make us into Philosophical Zombie, NPC Wojak - person without own voice, without own preferences, without own distinctions, without own objections, it is road to conformism, group think and herd mentality.
In reality most people value polarizing - especially if it is done without drama, attack, explosions or aggression: stating the objective facts from our side.
@@ranc1977 Thank you for the info - going to look it up.
So lovely, Jerry. Warm thanks. ❤️🩹
Thank you so much, this is the most helpful video on shame I've ever watched.
Wonderful helpful info. Shane bound…Would love to hear about internal Shane as well.
My parents always said 'should' you should have done that you should have said this instead. You shouldn't have said that etc etc you should have known.
Thanks for sharing those videos with us ❤Anytime i watch your videos, i learn new, eye-opening things. Thank you so much
Superb. Thank you so much !
You are very welcome Elizabeth ❤️
Jerry have to say your music is amazing!
That’s kind, thank you
So helpful, thank you!
🙏
Thank you 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
You’re welcome Mark!
I watched this at just the right time... Thank you Jerry.
Could you share that book list again? Thank you.
You can find my complete recommended book list on the website
Www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com
Mine waits for opportune moments to snidely tell me to go to church yet has said time and time again they don't think there are Christians in churches, expressed hostility towards them to the point of praising vandalism of worship equipment, and absolutely reels at the counter suggestion he go himself. All while putting on a sickeningly performative religious act during the holidays that is eerily hollow.
As a child I experienced religious abuse with this same parent convincing me I was imminently going to have to make the choice to have my head chopped off for my faith, and just making everything feel somewhat surreal. Also convinced me that everyday objects could become possessed with demons, scaring me so much I voluntarily got rid of all my childhood toys I was still young enough to like, my dolls and stuffed animals.
Thank for the book list. More of those books please.
Here is my full book list: www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/book-list
@@jerrywise Thank you, Got it!!!
Thank You ..much love❤❤❤❤
Thank you. I really needed this ❤
Wow, amazing video!! Thank you so much!
Glad you liked it, you are very welcome
I had food shaming myself at a carvery place when stupid idiots were criticising how much i was eating recently and i said to them dont you know thats rude?
Thank you so much
Excellent video and advice - thank you, Jerry! So helpful especially during these holidays seasons!
Hi, I just wanted to say great video! I’ve been struggling with trying to change my old ways and the way you convey this topic really helps me to understand more in depth about what’s going on internally. I really appreciate you, thanks!
Excellent lecture.Thank you so much
I get shame from wife which destroyed our intimacy and yet it’s all my fault 🤦♀️
sorry to hear this, you may want to watch this video
thanks for watching Mark
ua-cam.com/users/live10RnKY0kLCg?feature=share
Great videos x
I need help brother. I'm 39, living with my parents who drive me up the wall, no money, not sure how to step forward.
You could try out cheap forms of therapy by way of Self Help books. I have amassed many, so far I like most: Lisa A Romano's "Codependent:Now What?", Christiane Northrup's "Dodging Energy Vampires", Shahida Arabia's book on sensitive people surviving Narcissists. I am a fan of Melanie Tonya Evans'NARP meditations that you can sample for free on her UA-cam channel under "Shifts Happen" titles. In I also recommend David Celani's book "Leaving Home"... I got the understanding and validation from this book that I needed, specifically it identified how adult children from dysfunctional homes need to find a substitute family/mentor in order to finally break from the mind trap they are in. You can also look into CODA meetings, that run for free around the world and attend there and use their library and resources pretty much all for free. I also recommend keeping a diary. Lastly, consider the possibility of having some hidden disability that because it is unacknowledged, brings a whole lot of unfair shame onto you. In fact, your family likely share this, but make you the identified patient or scapegoat. For me, I self identified Asperger's traits, with the knowledge that this condition some variation to it. My own journey with struggling to gain independence as an adult has had a significant amount to do with this and being in a world that ignores the sensory differences that I genuinely have. The rest of my struggles, however, have come from shaming for my difference and struggle to be like everyone else... And the worst shaming often came from family and others close to me or with similar but different traits. I would actually say that the second obstacle has by far been the hardest; namely, that of narcissistic abuse. I have torn through relationships, fromy perspective because I put out grew so many of them. But those relationships made it an extra struggle to break free. ...in my opinion there are an awful lot of people with unrecognised disabilities or quasi disabilities, who then cope with this by choosing targets to feel power over and even abuse. ...I can also recommend the old movie "Marty", which illustrates just how people closest to you can be your worst enemies, leeching off of you all the while that they brainwash you into believing that YOU are the weak one.
@@lambchop6278 check out motivational talks by Jordon Peterson, here on UA-cam. I think you will really find he can help.
@@lonelyheartcowgirl8529 Thanks.
@@lonelyheartcowgirl8529 "Jordon Peterson"
Jordan Peterson is highly narcissistic and toxic shame based without him realizing it. He is abusive and ashaming to Greta, Canadian PM, trans gender individuals and he frequently ashames people pleasing as disease - while fawning is trauma reaction, it is conditioning - not personality flaw neither character defect as he describes it.
Instead of him there are healthy alternatives:
Robert Greene , Adam Grant, Jon Sutton, Steve Stewart-Williams, Dan Ariely - they all have google quotes as quick reference and most importantly - twitter, so there is interactive community out there.
@@lambchop6278 Lisa Romano is amazing, she is rare voice that clearly explains trauma and what to do about it.
Feeling like I had right to tell someone what to do, I had the right to jump and try to fix someone's life, I had right to offer my opinion. I shutty shutty. No - I don't have right to tell someone how to live their life. It is not up to me to fix that person's life.
Lisa Romano
You feel out of control, your belief system have you believed you have to control something you can't control - someone else's behaviour, how someone else perceive you. You look for validation, you think you do need it.
YT Codependency
Lisa A. Romano
It's not up to me to jump in and rescue that person. It's up to this person to get the help they need, ask for the help they need and to focus on themselves. I don't deserve the glory of that person's rescue. That's up to them.
YT Codependency
Lisa Romano
Grow up in a home where the rules are oppressive, never allowed to express yourself, withdraw in yourself, not allowed to think, feel, supercritical, condemning home, feel persecuted, not allowed to talk about truth.
YT Codependency
Lisa A. Romano
Strong emotions like love and safety and trust can also create new neural pathways and basically get the brain out of the state of emotional arrest which is emotional paralysis. My brain was wired for survival.
YT Codependency
Lisa A. Romano
I was developing servitude for Self. I was serving my Self, I was serving my ideas, serving my decision process. I was detaching from needing other people to make decisions for me and to comfort me. Stop seeking approval.
YT Codependency
Lisa A. Romano
When we're dealing with codependency, we're dealing with below the veil issue. When you're codependent, you don't know it - you are living beneath the veil of consciousness. Living in auto pilot reactive existence.
YT Lisa A. Romano
Victimblaming
If you come from dysfunctional family, you don't have tools you need to gain perspective. It is not your fault. If it is difficult for you to disengage, when narcissist get angry, you must know this is not your fault.
Lisa Romano
Deep feeling of inadequacy makes it difficult to follow our intuition. We look for humans, imperfect just like us, for a clue - that we are enough. We look for somebody else to give us permission to feel our feelings.
YT Lisa A. Romano
There was deficiency how you were nurtured. And that is not your fault. If you crave validation that is because you didn't get validated enough or properly as child, something went wrong. Child assumes blame, which is where shame comes from.
Lisa A. Romano
If you come from home where you have been continually denied and neglected and ignored, you don't have a perception of Self. I had been running my life completely reacted to what was happening outside of me unaware who am I.
YT Lisa A. Romano
Victimblaming
That person who's judging you and persecuting you, to them it makes sense. They've twisted in their heads to make sense. Highly emotional you might end up really triggered by what someone else is saying.
YT Lisa A. Romano
Victimblaming
I would berate myself, I'm just selfish, I'm not good enough, I'm not trying hard enough, it's me. This person's perfect, everyone loves him. I fell into narrative that was created in me when I was a child. Brain wired to think - wrong with me.
Lisa Romano
Satisfying moment"that bwn God and me"( smooth and mellow)lol
I wish I could pay for ur help
If you haven’t already, I would love to have you join my training, it’s completely free. you can join here:
jerrywise.ewebinar.com/webinar/build-the-self-you-were-never-allowed-to-have-10027
Shame around musical abilities are usually in the Direction of not performin (unless you're the "Talented" Golden Child). We are told we sho should become an investment banker or something like.
As a person with the learning disability and an interest in jazz that was never really able to perform classical music. became people consider themselves intellectuals do not like people that can't sigh Mozart sonata perfectly.
And some of the plays Oregon I often get it for not being at Church musician.
One of my original inspirations was a theater organ installed in a pizza parlor, although when I got more confident of playing music I became more of a jazz musician and if I was at work and I'm more commercial setting being a side man and a blues or an R&B setting as opposed to trying to sound like Lawrence Welk.
I also had some little lady come up to me while I was playing in a bar and tell me how it would be so much fun for me if I played in the church, in my experience church music programs are not fun I nearly had a piano fallboard slammed on my hands what happened in a bar.
Having to lead a tone deaf congregation in song is also a miserable experience.
Thanks so much again Jerry 🙋♀️🙏💝!! Your presentation on the subject of “shame” has really helped me see things in a different way. It also has given me the tools I need me to prepare for any future shame attacks by others and myself. 🙌🙌💯💪👏👏👏👏
You are very welcome Elizabeth, I’m glad my videos on shame are helping you
How do you get someone else's shame out of you after the relationship is over?
This playlist may be helpful❤️
ua-cam.com/play/PLoYQTW09i3W3uf_7bfMAT0WXigH1YIMDn.html
@@jerrywise Thank you. I will give them a try.