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I know exactly what my sister would wish for my existence to be a race just because I was born first and she was born second same with my brother so I wouldn’t be surprised that they would not hesitate to wish for my existence no my brother 😏
how can you watch ‘whatever happened to sarah jane’ and have your main takeaway be ‘bring back the guy with no eyes’ and not ‘bring back alan jackson skateboarding’
I actually didn’t watch Doctor Who until after Sarah Jane Adventures ended. But Sarah Jane was such an important part of my childhood and I’m so glad she was
@@Joe_Brennan_ yes being that the trickster has only been in a doctor who spin off and only being in two or three episodes, it is easy to see how so many fans of the show have never heard of the trickster.
The Trickster was the best villain in the entire SJA universe and the stories were perfect. What happened to Sarah Jane was an interesting concept and what would happen if she wasn’t there and it was up to Maria to save everyone with the help of her dad later on, you can’t forget the iconic grasks. The temptation of Sarah Jane is probably my least favourite because it had to top the original and it felt weird without Maria still (nothing against Rani but I loved Maria) but it was an emotional rollercoaster and did a good job at that. The wedding of Sarah Jane was brilliant, David Tennant returned (which was actually his last episode filmed as the doctor before he returned for the 50th special), an interesting story and we learnt more about the trickster. The Trickster would be a great antagonist to come back to manipulate the decisions of the current Tardis team and in my opinion especially the companions which could be turned into a cool two parter.
In the interned SJA season 5 finally the trickster would have been the antagonist he also would have potential appeared more if both the season and show had continued as well as some other mysteries that where never concluded
I would be curious as to how you felt about The Mark of the Beserker. I felt that had similar ish parts to it, mainly with the way Clyde’s dad made him forget about Rani and Luke, then even his mum.
There's something to be said for Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane, Mark of the Beserker and Curse of Clyde Langer being a kind of unofficial trilogy. They all act as pretty good metaphors for different aspects of abandonment. It's been a while since I revisited them. I may end up making a video on them if I find there's something worth talking about
You know, the thought did cross my mind, I have a few really vivid memories of that first series. I may attempt a rewatch and see if there's anything worth talking about...
I think the Trickster was so scary because it was more psychological rather than relying on jump scares or scary imagery. The Trickster worked its way into people's brains when they were on death's door in order to wreak havoc.
Whatever Happened To Sarah Jane is one of the best pieces of Doctor Who media in history it sucks you can't watch it anywhere. I'm gonna try to but the 1-5 boxset I suppose. Also bless u for the Gareth Roberts warning and trans rights bit, good on you.
@@evnsconnor I really hope so, the Trickster is my favourite villain of the whoniverse - hearing RTD discussing a "pantheon... [of] chaos" in the DW Unleashed for The Devil's Chord has got me so hyped rn
It's surprising that more enemies don't have the same goals. For a show about time travel, time rarely has an impact on the stories. So few villains are actually dependent on timey wimey stuff
The Trickster in my opinion is one of the most interesting villains in Doctor Who, we still know so little about it and maybe it can link into other stories like the one with the conscious universe. I too had nightmares about the Trickster. Overall I do want him to return and give more people in the world this great villain.
In terms of episodes that upset me/got to me, The Curse of Clyde Langer got to me for extential reasons slightly similair to Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane, but instead of everyone else forgetting, what if everyone including my family and friends just hated me out of nowhere for reasons beyond my control? Gah!
BBC has pretty much owned all DW characters for decades, so The Trickster could come back at any time. Just like Captain Jack's recent appearance. I had a great idea for a story involving the Trickster and an element from a previous Doctor that I think could be deliciously massive. I mean massive like if DW continues to be a mess, this could be a reboot.
There are a good deal of Faustian elements in the Trickster, which can definitely be replicated in a new character if need be. Basically as you said, the formula is really what makes the Trickster amazing, and that formula can be put into a different new villain. On a side note, hopefully someone from the BBC watches this and remembers to finally put The Sarah Jane Adventures on IPlayer.
What’s quite interesting is that we’ve actually heard him mentioned in Doctor Who - at the end of Turn Left, the Doctor says that the time beetle is “one of the Trickster’s gang”. This means that the Doctor is aware of the Trickster, and there’s precedent for crossover. I believe that the Trickster’s gang also shows up in Torchwood. It’s honestly strange that he HASNT shown up in the main series.
Ah, the Trickster and his famous love of minerals. In fairness to him, the Cybermen did the same thing in The Wheel in Space, suddenly pausing their desire for conversion and survival in lieu of wanting minerals from planets. For... reasons.
With Cybermen you can argue that they ran out of materials for more cyberconversions (I imagine the shells require a lot of different minerals to construct) but I see your point.
What I think would be really cool is for the Monks to be revealed to be another part of the Trickster’s Brigade, we get a two parter where another one of the members of The Trickster’s Brigade, possibly the Monks, and they use the same method to do something horrible, I don’t know what it is, could be genocide of every universe or something more personal, but after doing this the Doctor decides that enough is enough and he goes up against the Trickster’s Brigade, including the Trickster in a climactic series event, possibly the biggest ever
Yeah you’re passions definitely came across. I expect content like this to be 10-15 mins but as it went on I was so happy that it’s longer. The Trickster has always been the thing that stood out the most for me from SJA but I never really knew why, this is it and I thank you for that, and the laughs I had along the way!
This is one of the nicest comments I've received, I really appreciate it. I tend to aim for around 10-15 minutes but I thought this was a topic that demanded lots of detail. It seems it was the right call!
@@Joe_Brennan_ Definitely the right call. I’m just annoyed I haven’t (to my knowledge) been recommended your videos before. Love your style and looking through your channel there’s a load of other stuff I’m going to watch. So thanks for when I watch them in advance.
I hate that scene in The Lie of the Land. The Doctor turning to the enemy, working with oppressors? That's the most severe betrayal of Bill imaginable. Bill shooting the Doctor? Ditto. This is the spinning scene, where everything gets flipped 180°. Their dynamic can never be the same again...but it is. By the next scene. I know it makes World Enough and Time more impactful if 12 and Bill were on good terms, but people do - and quite rightly - complain that the one thing Series 10 was missing was a character arc for Bill. This scene would have been perfect, had they stuck to their guns and gone through with it.
The problem is that sometimes when you bring back a good villain it can water them down. It's the law of diminishing returns we see it time and again and I think they would have ended up going over old ground if the Trickster had returned.
Okay, so I've had a theory about the Monks that touches on a couple of the things you discuss - but my headcanon, which I know is 100% not actually canon, is that The Monks are actually renegade Tricksters. Like you say, they alter history, require consent and seek 'pure chaos' like the Trickster, however they do so through technology rather than natural powers. Originally the Monks are part of the Tricksters brigade, potentially spawn of the Trickster or a completely different entity. In response to the failure of the Trickster in SJA's series 5 planned finale, they revolt and attempt to take the mantle of the Trickster themselves - to oversee their manipulation of time on a larger scale. They fail in doing so and the Trickster casts them out from the realm he exists in and, from here, they find themselves with no meaning. They create the technology to continue their operations and they seek control rather than destruction - they fly about the universe, suceed in some places and fail in others and on Earth we see them enact the Tricksters plan - find a moment to exploit, propose an ultimatum and seize control. Their failure, however, is that they're based on technology rather than time powers and ultimately brought down by Bill outsmarting it
What if they brought the Trickster (or equivalent) back by making a deal to make the daleks never exist. You would have a dilemma from the Doctor because of all of their trauma, but without all his battles with them the Doctor would be a very different person. Anyway I just found your channel today, and I have been loving it. Great video!
I love seeing Sarah Jane Adventures getting some love! Best Doctor Who tv spinoff! I will also say in defence of the Wedding of Sarah Jane, it does differentiate itself in that the thing Sarah is tempted with isn't just a person she loves, but also a quiet ordinary life. Probably undercut when she'd never have it if the Trickster won but it's there.
the trickster was by far the scariest villain on sja for me, so much that i had to cover my eyes when he was on screen. coming second was definitely bradley walsh as the clown in the day of the clown lol. this was a great video, i really liked how you linked everything together! (also the phrase 'pantheon of discord' has stuck with me ever since it was said in the show so the discord mod joke made me laugh)
It's night now. Scrolling through videos in my feed, I see the Trickster. And may I say I've never been so scared, haha! But he really should come back.
The conclusion to Monk Part 2 always stuck out to me as an inaccurate answer to the question posed. I always felt it was a "have your cake and eat it to" situation where they wanted something as corny as "love is the answer" but didn't want to diminish how "cool" the episode is by saying so. However, the amount they had to bend over backwards to avoid having the monks explicitly say "We need a love-sacrifice to power our telepathic field" just meant the end result felt like a cheat. "Fear" and "strategy" were established as both being impure, but how was Bill's consent not a strategic move to save the Doctor motivated by the fear of losing him?
Watched all your videos (except the Christmas video as I only watch Christmas content near Christmas) and love your channel. I love how you present your videos
The concept that you might push the single worst affliction a human can suffer onto someone else, sparing yourself but sacrificing another, was always the scariest thing from doctor who to me. It’s part of what made me the existential, philosophical smart-Alec I am today. Thanks doctor who
I remember watching this when I was babysitting. I'm really surprised that the more tame show has this kind of villain but, then again, there are some kids shows that are genuinely terrifying. And I love that kids should have media that allows them to experience fear without being in actual danger. To an extent of course some kids are more sensitive than others, including myself. I was up for weeks because of a rugrats episode lol
This was a very good video, it was amazing high quality for such a small channel. I also love that you talked about the trickster he is such a under rated villain but I will always prefer the orange slitheen (I can’t remember their name) because I like how they took over earth with a gift and you didn’t know that it was them until the end, I also like the world building around that area with the absorbalofs, the slitheen and the orange slitheen all near the planet (I will not attempt to spell it but it is the slitheens planet) and clom (if I remember that is the absorbalofs planet.
Interestingly, when the show was at its peak with the two spin offs there was another one commissioned that never saw the light of day. This would have been called Rose Tyler: Earth Defence and would have explored Earth invasion stories with Rose with an alternate version of Torchwood. According to RTD’s notes there would have been an alternate Torchwood team with a different Captain Jack. I wonder if this would have explored the existentialism Rose would almost definitely experienced when being trapped in a world that is similar yet vastly different to her own world.
What would honestly be a good move, it take the 'pantheon of Discord' concept, and some how thread it together with both the monks and the monk, making them having a shared history.
We find out in The Temptation of Sarah Jane Smith that his spaceship was going to crash and kill him, but the Trickster offered him his life in exchange for service. By the end of that story, he’s free again. Would be interesting to see what he did with his life once it was his own
@@Joe_Brennan_ oh wow, I totally forgot about that! When they bring back a trickster-equivalent character they need to give them a little friend as well 😤 thanks for the reply !
Temptation is tenfold better to Father's Day. Yeah, I said it. Actually exploring aborted timelines, instead if just telling us about them is pretty commendable considering Sarah Jane is operating on half of Who's budget. Then there's the difference between The Trickster and the Reapers. Now we have a villain with ambition, goals - not just parasites. Even small stuff like motivation. I remember Russell saying that Gareth wanted Sarah to be physically stuck in the past (like 9 and Rose when the TARDIS folds in on itself), but Russell said no. He said make her _choose_ to stay there, knowing she's endangering her son - and possibly the world. Make her selfish. Imagine if in Father's Day Rose insisted on staying in the past, at least for a while, and the Doctor didn't want to leave her, even when he was furious. Instantly that's so much more interesting than the former. Honestly think Temptation is better.
I think Lie of the Land would've been helped by the monks tempting Bill by resurrecting her mother using their Nondescript Time Powers™ then Bill's mum volunteering to become the link and die to save the world. It wouldn't be treading any new ground after the episodes you talk about here, but it would've given the resolution more weight.
Great video Joe! While I've only actually watched 1 of the 3 SJA stories featuring The Trickster, I do love those sorts of stories, and something like that in the future would be something I'd love to see. Maybe you could use the Mara, with the bargain that they keep you if they grant you something.
It's not sci-fi but there's a creature in The Magnus Archives that does a similar thing to "Whatever happened to Sarah Jane?," replacing a person and changing everyone's memories to match the new identity it has created for the replacement... But always leaving a few people whose memories haven't been changed, so they know the replacement is an impostor, but have no way to convince anyone else or prove it to them so they're just stuck with the terror of not knowing who this impostor is, what they did with the real person they've replaced, and left to anxiously wonder if it's going to do the same to them.
They at least justified the meteor strike, as the Trickster simply removed the other threats because he needed a truly senseless, chaotic thing to destroy Earth upon which to feed as opposed to an invasion; that gives context to why he does this now.
Totally agree. Loved the trickster when I was a kid, would love to see that bastard return. Also, on a side note, did anyone ever play or view a sort of weird thing on the Sarah Jane website, where Clyde was stuck in a school and the trickster was somehow involved? Just a weird memory I have but can't find any trace of.
If you check out Paul Marc Davies (Who plays the Trickster)'s wiki page you can also see he's been in every spinoff series of New Who including the main show too! tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Paul_Marc_Davies
Amazing video! I 100% agree with all your points. I would love the Trickster to return, he has the most creepy design and a refreshing motive that can lead to varying mentally scarring consequences.
If you enjoyed this, be sure to subscribe, and check out this playlist of all my other Doctor Who videos!
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I'd agree but doctor who is fucked now so bring him back in a future revamp
Dr Who is still facing its ultimate villain. Chibnall.....
@@bonfyre4711 bruh
@@RobTFilms sad but true
I know exactly what my sister would wish for my existence to be a race just because I was born first and she was born second same with my brother so I wouldn’t be surprised that they would not hesitate to wish for my existence no my brother 😏
how can you watch ‘whatever happened to sarah jane’ and have your main takeaway be ‘bring back the guy with no eyes’ and not ‘bring back alan jackson skateboarding’
Stop giving away my plans for the next video!
The fact this show for kids managed to have such deep and interesting themes and plots is why SJA is the peak of kids tv.
It’s because RTD was in charge 🤷🏻♂️ enough said 😂
The Trickster Origin is my favourite
The Doctor being in the Sarah Jane Adventures was one of the coolest things I remember as a kid
Agreed it saddens me it never got the ending it deserved
And saddens me more why we never got it
Same
Same, biggest thing as a kid, i remember screaming at the screen with both 11 and 10 lol
Innut
“Pantheon of Discord”
“Adherents of the repeated meme”
Doctor Who was ahead of its time
Without the stupid Internet Culture references by chance, yes, it is.
The way Andrea twists her neck when shouting at Maria gave me nightmares for months after watching this episode
"MEANT!? nobody is meant to die!"
I’m so grateful I grew up with Sarah Jane and the 9/10th doctor
I actually didn’t watch Doctor Who until after Sarah Jane Adventures ended. But Sarah Jane was such an important part of my childhood and I’m so glad she was
Sarah Jane is how I got into Doctor Who
@@Joe_Brennan_ rip Elizabeth sladen 🥺😭
@@jf175 wait
She’s dead……
For the modern ones for sure only thing on the level wouldve been any of the first 4 Doctors
"Who Even Cares about the Plot? I'm here for the story"
I love that quote and it's a mentality we need more often.
I can't imagine being any other way
There isn't a villain in the Doctor Who universe that scared me more than The Trickster. Nightmares since 2007!
The Trickster is literally a god. It has to return. It would be incredible
There's so much that could be done with him
Here after the first two episodes of season 1 and it looks like this wish isn't too far away!
I 100% agree
One of the biggest hidden gems of doctor who
I feel like people either love the Trickster, or haven't seen his stories
@@Joe_Brennan_ yes being that the trickster has only been in a doctor who spin off and only being in two or three episodes, it is easy to see how so many fans of the show have never heard of the trickster.
The Trickster was the best villain in the entire SJA universe and the stories were perfect. What happened to Sarah Jane was an interesting concept and what would happen if she wasn’t there and it was up to Maria to save everyone with the help of her dad later on, you can’t forget the iconic grasks. The temptation of Sarah Jane is probably my least favourite because it had to top the original and it felt weird without Maria still (nothing against Rani but I loved Maria) but it was an emotional rollercoaster and did a good job at that. The wedding of Sarah Jane was brilliant, David Tennant returned (which was actually his last episode filmed as the doctor before he returned for the 50th special), an interesting story and we learnt more about the trickster. The Trickster would be a great antagonist to come back to manipulate the decisions of the current Tardis team and in my opinion especially the companions which could be turned into a cool two parter.
In the interned SJA season 5 finally the trickster would have been the antagonist he also would have potential appeared more if both the season and show had continued as well as some other mysteries that where never concluded
I love this video most of the doctor who UA-camr content out there doesn’t scratch the same itch your videos do. Can’t wait for more.
Thank you!
I've always wanted him in Doctor Who. He has so much potential to go against the doctor again with huge stakes that could be Finale worthy
I would be curious as to how you felt about The Mark of the Beserker. I felt that had similar ish parts to it, mainly with the way Clyde’s dad made him forget about Rani and Luke, then even his mum.
There's something to be said for Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane, Mark of the Beserker and Curse of Clyde Langer being a kind of unofficial trilogy. They all act as pretty good metaphors for different aspects of abandonment. It's been a while since I revisited them. I may end up making a video on them if I find there's something worth talking about
Still can't believe you watched SJA before Doctor Who lmao
It was on telly on the channel I watched! I wasn't tuning into BBC One late at night!
@@Joe_Brennan_ - I watched both and Lis was more my hero than David :)
He's a fraud
He grew up in England in the late 2000's it was inevitable.
oh PLEASE can we have some talk about the sparticle mystery i loved that show so much and would love to see you chat about it
You know, the thought did cross my mind, I have a few really vivid memories of that first series. I may attempt a rewatch and see if there's anything worth talking about...
@@Joe_Brennan_ I rewatched it recently and I think it holds up well with some good commentary
I think the Trickster was so scary because it was more psychological rather than relying on jump scares or scary imagery. The Trickster worked its way into people's brains when they were on death's door in order to wreak havoc.
It's definitely a much more compelling than just a CGI demon
Whatever Happened To Sarah Jane is one of the best pieces of Doctor Who media in history it sucks you can't watch it anywhere. I'm gonna try to but the 1-5 boxset I suppose. Also bless u for the Gareth Roberts warning and trans rights bit, good on you.
I think I heard it's on HBO max, although I can't get that in the UK.
It’s on Amazon Prime Video, buy you’ve still gotta pay for it so the dvd might be a better option
Trans rights 😂
I feel like RTD might be bringing him back rn, the goblins feel like tricksters brigade material and theres a hooded figure that dropped off ruby
here from the future after the first two Season One episodes... maybe.
@@sirprintalot I'm so confident of this now, after the Devil's Chord
My dude, I think you called it
@@evnsconnor I really hope so, the Trickster is my favourite villain of the whoniverse - hearing RTD discussing a "pantheon... [of] chaos" in the DW Unleashed for The Devil's Chord has got me so hyped rn
After devils chord. My hope grows everyday
As a trans person, I'd be happy to lose a right or two if it got us the Trickster in Doctor Who 😂
Ever notice The Weeping Angels and The Trickster feed the same way?
It's surprising that more enemies don't have the same goals. For a show about time travel, time rarely has an impact on the stories. So few villains are actually dependent on timey wimey stuff
The Trickster terrified me as a kid and he is easily one of my favourite Doctor Who villains
Man, I had forgotten how good the Trickster looked in white though.
It struck me as I was editing it. Great look
@@Joe_Brennan_ And its *very* in character for him to wear white to someone elses wedding too though. very big step mum energy "Its my day too"
@@dalekcaan99 "step mum energy" has me rolling
The Trickster in my opinion is one of the most interesting villains in Doctor Who, we still know so little about it and maybe it can link into other stories like the one with the conscious universe. I too had nightmares about the Trickster.
Overall I do want him to return and give more people in the world this great villain.
In terms of episodes that upset me/got to me, The Curse of Clyde Langer got to me for extential reasons slightly similair to Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane, but instead of everyone else forgetting, what if everyone including my family and friends just hated me out of nowhere for reasons beyond my control? Gah!
That’s another fantastic story with very similar themes of abandonment. I might rewatch it soon
Same it got to me so badly too! Just the concept is just as you said Gah!
I cry at the end of part 2 every single time. That episode broke me.
Watching him as a child was so scary but got me hooked.
As a child, watching in control adults get overwhelmed by a situation terrified me
BBC has pretty much owned all DW characters for decades, so The Trickster could come back at any time. Just like Captain Jack's recent appearance. I had a great idea for a story involving the Trickster and an element from a previous Doctor that I think could be deliciously massive. I mean massive like if DW continues to be a mess, this could be a reboot.
Mad at you for making me cry with Sarah Jane's "what if this is my reward" bit and then immediately following it with Star Wars meme and Aunty Donna
And if that’s not my specific brand, I don’t know what is! I apologise for the emotional whiplash lmao
“A figure with a faceless... face 🙃”
Lol
There are a good deal of Faustian elements in the Trickster, which can definitely be replicated in a new character if need be. Basically as you said, the formula is really what makes the Trickster amazing, and that formula can be put into a different new villain.
On a side note, hopefully someone from the BBC watches this and remembers to finally put The Sarah Jane Adventures on IPlayer.
What’s quite interesting is that we’ve actually heard him mentioned in Doctor Who - at the end of Turn Left, the Doctor says that the time beetle is “one of the Trickster’s gang”. This means that the Doctor is aware of the Trickster, and there’s precedent for crossover. I believe that the Trickster’s gang also shows up in Torchwood. It’s honestly strange that he HASNT shown up in the main series.
Just here to make sure the first comment mentions Scongo
Doing the lord's work
I agree. Trickster needs to come back in a subtle fashion. Also No More Lies is one of my Personal Favourite stories
No More Lies is really great, very interesting to see a Time Loop from the perspective of characters that have only just shown up in it
@@Joe_Brennan_ It’s enough to have an existential Crisis XD But a fantastic Concept I personally can never get enough of.
Ah, the Trickster and his famous love of minerals. In fairness to him, the Cybermen did the same thing in The Wheel in Space, suddenly pausing their desire for conversion and survival in lieu of wanting minerals from planets. For... reasons.
I guess they have a sign up at Doctor Who HQ that says "if in doubt, MINERALS!"
With Cybermen you can argue that they ran out of materials for more cyberconversions (I imagine the shells require a lot of different minerals to construct) but I see your point.
What I think would be really cool is for the Monks to be revealed to be another part of the Trickster’s Brigade, we get a two parter where another one of the members of The Trickster’s Brigade, possibly the Monks, and they use the same method to do something horrible, I don’t know what it is, could be genocide of every universe or something more personal, but after doing this the Doctor decides that enough is enough and he goes up against the Trickster’s Brigade, including the Trickster in a climactic series event, possibly the biggest ever
Yeah you’re passions definitely came across. I expect content like this to be 10-15 mins but as it went on I was so happy that it’s longer. The Trickster has always been the thing that stood out the most for me from SJA but I never really knew why, this is it and I thank you for that, and the laughs I had along the way!
This is one of the nicest comments I've received, I really appreciate it. I tend to aim for around 10-15 minutes but I thought this was a topic that demanded lots of detail. It seems it was the right call!
@@Joe_Brennan_ Definitely the right call. I’m just annoyed I haven’t (to my knowledge) been recommended your videos before. Love your style and looking through your channel there’s a load of other stuff I’m going to watch. So thanks for when I watch them in advance.
I wish the 12th Doctor was known as the Valeyard during the Monks trilogy
The Trickster at least got a name drop
I can't think of a bigger Doctor Who "villain" than Chris Chibnall.
YOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WTF HOW DID YOU THINK OF THAT HAHAHAHAHA 😶🥱
@@jamiestevens3074 chibbs is shit though
Same
I would love to use of the dream lord again. He is one of the favourite villains. He is everything that is needed as a doctor who villain.
I hate that scene in The Lie of the Land.
The Doctor turning to the enemy, working with oppressors? That's the most severe betrayal of Bill imaginable. Bill shooting the Doctor? Ditto. This is the spinning scene, where everything gets flipped 180°. Their dynamic can never be the same again...but it is. By the next scene.
I know it makes World Enough and Time more impactful if 12 and Bill were on good terms, but people do - and quite rightly - complain that the one thing Series 10 was missing was a character arc for Bill. This scene would have been perfect, had they stuck to their guns and gone through with it.
The problem is that sometimes when you bring back a good villain it can water them down.
It's the law of diminishing returns we see it time and again and I think they would have ended up going over old ground if the Trickster had returned.
Thank you for acknowledging Maria as an actor being so amazing! I find her underrated!
there was also suppose to be another story with him in season 5 where he made serah janes house difrent.
Okay, so I've had a theory about the Monks that touches on a couple of the things you discuss - but my headcanon, which I know is 100% not actually canon, is that The Monks are actually renegade Tricksters. Like you say, they alter history, require consent and seek 'pure chaos' like the Trickster, however they do so through technology rather than natural powers.
Originally the Monks are part of the Tricksters brigade, potentially spawn of the Trickster or a completely different entity. In response to the failure of the Trickster in SJA's series 5 planned finale, they revolt and attempt to take the mantle of the Trickster themselves - to oversee their manipulation of time on a larger scale.
They fail in doing so and the Trickster casts them out from the realm he exists in and, from here, they find themselves with no meaning. They create the technology to continue their operations and they seek control rather than destruction - they fly about the universe, suceed in some places and fail in others and on Earth we see them enact the Tricksters plan - find a moment to exploit, propose an ultimatum and seize control. Their failure, however, is that they're based on technology rather than time powers and ultimately brought down by Bill outsmarting it
7:50 I never made that connection before, I loved that song they were playing in the background. It was definitely MEANT to be a little Easter Egg
“MEANT!?!?!”
I believe what you mean to say is it an Easter egg. 🥚🐣
What if they brought the Trickster (or equivalent) back by making a deal to make the daleks never exist. You would have a dilemma from the Doctor because of all of their trauma, but without all his battles with them the Doctor would be a very different person.
Anyway I just found your channel today, and I have been loving it. Great video!
Thank you! I'm glad you found the channel!
the trickster would be awesome in an actual doctor who cannon.
I forgot how good those episodes where I havent seen Sarah Jane since I was a kid I may watch it again
I love seeing Sarah Jane Adventures getting some love! Best Doctor Who tv spinoff!
I will also say in defence of the Wedding of Sarah Jane, it does differentiate itself in that the thing Sarah is tempted with isn't just a person she loves, but also a quiet ordinary life. Probably undercut when she'd never have it if the Trickster won but it's there.
That aspect is a tad muddled, it's hard for her to really be tempted when she knows the real consequences her decision would have
the trickster was by far the scariest villain on sja for me, so much that i had to cover my eyes when he was on screen. coming second was definitely bradley walsh as the clown in the day of the clown lol. this was a great video, i really liked how you linked everything together! (also the phrase 'pantheon of discord' has stuck with me ever since it was said in the show so the discord mod joke made me laugh)
Glad you enjoyed the video! Hopefully we see more from the pantheon of discord
Dude I was so scared of the Trickster as a kid hahaha
Turn Left wouldn't been three times better if it featured The Trickster himself.
It's night now. Scrolling through videos in my feed, I see the Trickster. And may I say I've never been so scared, haha! But he really should come back.
The conclusion to Monk Part 2 always stuck out to me as an inaccurate answer to the question posed. I always felt it was a "have your cake and eat it to" situation where they wanted something as corny as "love is the answer" but didn't want to diminish how "cool" the episode is by saying so. However, the amount they had to bend over backwards to avoid having the monks explicitly say "We need a love-sacrifice to power our telepathic field" just meant the end result felt like a cheat. "Fear" and "strategy" were established as both being impure, but how was Bill's consent not a strategic move to save the Doctor motivated by the fear of losing him?
Bruh just found this video totally forgetting about the Facebook page, video loaded and I was like, hey this guy looks familiar lmaoo
I had a theory that one of the tricksters shadow was the one that escaped from the howling halls that killed Elton’s mum in love and monsters.
Watched all your videos (except the Christmas video as I only watch Christmas content near Christmas) and love your channel. I love how you present your videos
Thank you so much! There's a lot more coming up
The concept that you might push the single worst affliction a human can suffer onto someone else, sparing yourself but sacrificing another, was always the scariest thing from doctor who to me. It’s part of what made me the existential, philosophical smart-Alec I am today. Thanks doctor who
the Vashta Nerada and the Midnight entity were pretty memorable imo
The Silence also scared the crap out of me
I remember watching this when I was babysitting. I'm really surprised that the more tame show has this kind of villain but, then again, there are some kids shows that are genuinely terrifying. And I love that kids should have media that allows them to experience fear without being in actual danger. To an extent of course some kids are more sensitive than others, including myself. I was up for weeks because of a rugrats episode lol
I just found Rugrats in general to be quite disturbing. I think I was too young to appreciate that art style
Nah the wedding of Sarah Jane smith is the best episode ever.
It really is great, I hope I didn't seem too negative about it.
This was a very good video, it was amazing high quality for such a small channel. I also love that you talked about the trickster he is such a under rated villain but I will always prefer the orange slitheen (I can’t remember their name) because I like how they took over earth with a gift and you didn’t know that it was them until the end, I also like the world building around that area with the absorbalofs, the slitheen and the orange slitheen all near the planet (I will not attempt to spell it but it is the slitheens planet) and clom (if I remember that is the absorbalofs planet.
15:00 "who cares about the plot, I'm here for the story" Me 100% of the time! 15:04 yes just yes!
More people have responded to that quote than I was expecting
Can we talk about how Trickster never once managed to scratch Sarah Jane, but his bug just effortlessly deleted the whole cast of the show?
Interestingly, when the show was at its peak with the two spin offs there was another one commissioned that never saw the light of day. This would have been called Rose Tyler: Earth Defence and would have explored Earth invasion stories with Rose with an alternate version of Torchwood. According to RTD’s notes there would have been an alternate Torchwood team with a different Captain Jack. I wonder if this would have explored the existentialism Rose would almost definitely experienced when being trapped in a world that is similar yet vastly different to her own world.
What would honestly be a good move, it take the 'pantheon of Discord' concept, and some how thread it together with both the monks and the monk, making them having a shared history.
Enjoyed the subtle edit on the Guardian article.
Waheyyy, 8000 views and someone's finally noticed
fr tho this thumbnail unlocked some arcane memory deep within me...
I see that Scongo in the background!
He's everywhere
No no no, bring back the little red goblin man with a taser who hung out with him. What's his story? Whats his deal?
We find out in The Temptation of Sarah Jane Smith that his spaceship was going to crash and kill him, but the Trickster offered him his life in exchange for service. By the end of that story, he’s free again. Would be interesting to see what he did with his life once it was his own
@@Joe_Brennan_ oh wow, I totally forgot about that! When they bring back a trickster-equivalent character they need to give them a little friend as well 😤 thanks for the reply !
Temptation is tenfold better to Father's Day. Yeah, I said it.
Actually exploring aborted timelines, instead if just telling us about them is pretty commendable considering Sarah Jane is operating on half of Who's budget. Then there's the difference between The Trickster and the Reapers. Now we have a villain with ambition, goals - not just parasites.
Even small stuff like motivation. I remember Russell saying that Gareth wanted Sarah to be physically stuck in the past (like 9 and Rose when the TARDIS folds in on itself), but Russell said no. He said make her _choose_ to stay there, knowing she's endangering her son - and possibly the world. Make her selfish. Imagine if in Father's Day Rose insisted on staying in the past, at least for a while, and the Doctor didn't want to leave her, even when he was furious. Instantly that's so much more interesting than the former. Honestly think Temptation is better.
If they can't bring back the Trickster they can always says Clyde killed him with the Artron energy and introduce his brother the Prankster
I agree, with a more modern design it could be one of the best episodes in Who... ever
Would love to see more SJA content that was my childhood. Also the trickster was an amazing villain and I loved your review of these episodes
Yo I absolutely love this! The tone, the structure, you're doing fantastic work! Subscribed and I'm looking forward to more content!
The trickster definitely has a faustian bargain vibe and I LOVE it
The Sarah Jane Adventures was sick
I want them to bring back that Dream lord guy. That they said was a pollen but hinted him.to be a real person
Virgin Krasko vs Chad Trickster
Now that I think about, Rosa would've been improved by actually showing the world the change would've caused.
I think Lie of the Land would've been helped by the monks tempting Bill by resurrecting her mother using their Nondescript Time Powers™ then Bill's mum volunteering to become the link and die to save the world. It wouldn't be treading any new ground after the episodes you talk about here, but it would've given the resolution more weight.
There's not one single Doctor Who villain scarier than John Barrowman 😂
The fact that RTD is back and Tennant will star in the 60th makes me think that this is very possible... Perhaps the trickster changes the timeline?
Great video Joe! While I've only actually watched 1 of the 3 SJA stories featuring The Trickster, I do love those sorts of stories, and something like that in the future would be something I'd love to see. Maybe you could use the Mara, with the bargain that they keep you if they grant you something.
It was mentioned in dr who turn left the hole reason of that episode was the trickster
babe wake up new joe brennan video
It's not sci-fi but there's a creature in The Magnus Archives that does a similar thing to "Whatever happened to Sarah Jane?," replacing a person and changing everyone's memories to match the new identity it has created for the replacement... But always leaving a few people whose memories haven't been changed, so they know the replacement is an impostor, but have no way to convince anyone else or prove it to them so they're just stuck with the terror of not knowing who this impostor is, what they did with the real person they've replaced, and left to anxiously wonder if it's going to do the same to them.
Excellent video as always
Thank you, Josh!
Don't pretend you don't get scared when you watch doctor who, I know a squealer when I see one
Rude.
@@lillywho yes
Facts
They at least justified the meteor strike, as the Trickster simply removed the other threats because he needed a truly senseless, chaotic thing to destroy Earth upon which to feed as opposed to an invasion; that gives context to why he does this now.
The trickster is a discord admin confirmed
Totally agree. Loved the trickster when I was a kid, would love to see that bastard return.
Also, on a side note, did anyone ever play or view a sort of weird thing on the Sarah Jane website, where Clyde was stuck in a school and the trickster was somehow involved? Just a weird memory I have but can't find any trace of.
I went on an archive of the CBBC website to see if I could find anything, but all their games require Adobe Flash Player, which no longer exists
@@Joe_Brennan_ I guess we'll never know.
13:28 Gives me goosebumps every time.
For some reason I have never ever forgot about that Sarah Jane episode
I rewatched it for the first time in around a decade and remembered everything so vividly. Says a lot about the impact it had
Ok but I didn’t even realise this video was half an hour long
I guess time flies when you’re having fun!
If you check out Paul Marc Davies (Who plays the Trickster)'s wiki page you can also see he's been in every spinoff series of New Who including the main show too! tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Paul_Marc_Davies
Amazing video! I 100% agree with all your points. I would love the Trickster to return, he has the most creepy design and a refreshing motive that can lead to varying mentally scarring consequences.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!