I’m sorry, your threat holds no water. This is 2021, where 1984 seems like an almost utopian dream. In only 9 years, we’ll own nothing, and have moved into the worst of Orwell and Huxley combined. At least Winston owned his own telescreen, didn’t need to deal with Facebook and had a place he could hide with Julia for a while……
This is actually a take on “the ones who walk away from Omelas” by Ursula K. Le Guin. In it the town of omelas doesn’t have any grief or problems but when people reach voting age they find out that a child is tortured every year for them to be able to live as they do. It’s a word for word copy of that instead of 1984. I think that would be a more interesting comparison. Great video though!
Fair critiques, can't disagree with anything, but I am a big fan of this one. Flaws and all, it's just a romp with some interesting things to say and fun visuals to look at.
Same. It feels very bioshock. I just like the cynicism, people forgetting what happens when they vote Tory is how someone described it. I certainly prefer it's handling of democracy to something like Kill the Moon- I still don't get what that was going for
@@Ben-vf5gk Most of Peter Harness’ work (on DW at least) is skeptical of democracy. Not in a pro-authoritarian way, but moreso thinking about the moral failings of the system. Specifically in Kill the Moon, Harness shows how even democratic decisions can be immoral, yet that doesn’t excuse them. There’s also a case to be made that the decision in KtM isn’t democratic, as world governments could be shutting off power grids to enforce their own decision, but that still comes from skepticism of how democracy is easily influenced.
@@TheoreticalRain Fair. I just wish the episode had explored that more if it was gonna do it. We don't cut away to anyone on earth and see their reaction to what they're being told. Maybe we could have seen a glimpse of governments shutting of power grids? It certainly makes Kill the Moon's abortion or taking on reproduction futurism reading even more dubious. That doesn't have to be a problem- there are other readings. But it does make me disbelieve the ending where the human race falls back in love with the beauty of the universe- more likely mob mentality will prevail and they'll hunt the space dragon down.
Honestly, I really love this episode. This shows the other side of the Doctor after the eleventh hour. Yes, it's a slow burn, but it has a really interesting mystery and some fascinating philosophical questions.
To me this episode highlights one of my biggest gripes of of Moffat era. Putting creepy storybook ideas into the episode because they fit his motif without any in universe explanation. Why are there creepy antique carnival robots all over the ship as a security force instead of just cameras? Why is the elevator programmed to have a kid read an unsettling poem before dropping people to thier doom? Is the knowledge of a tortured space whale literally so traumatic for everyone to process that no one at all has chosen go remember, even if just for the purpose of putting a stop to it? What does being "half smiler" even mean?! What is the in universe reason why any of this stuff is here?
@@zoewells3160 I paid attention fine thank you. Still doesn't address any of my questions. A. How does anyone know that it is eating people? B. So this star whale that has subjected itself to literal torture to save humans is also indiscriminately eating them? Maybe you'd have better clarity on these issues if you paid attention enough to notice them.
@@chrisnicholson2407 The average citizen doesn't know that it's eating people, nor that it exists. That's the point. Or, at least, they don't want to know. It's kinda a metaphor for how everyone living in the developed world inherently benefits from horrific exploitation of somebody somewhere down the line. Anyway, the Doctor and Amy get a slight clue this is happening when they almost get eaten themselves. Also, Hawthorne explicitly admits this to the Doctor, Amy, and Liz Ten when they discover the Star Whale. Also, it didn't subject itself to torture. It wanted to help them, but it didn't need to be tortured for that to happen. They subjected it to torture. It didn't ask to be tortured. Anyway, yes it eats them. What else would it eat? They don't feed it anything else. It doesn't eat the children though.
The thing is that this season was written as a continuation of the RTD era, hence a lot of themes carried over. I think they even said that some of this was written with David Tennant as the Doctor in mind. The attempt is to keep fans of the previous era engaged with familiarity, but it does slightly undermine the fresh start of a new era. Particularly when the attempt to emulate RTD’S style is as ham fisted as this episode.
@@mayotango1317 Actually to be fair throughout watching this video, everything that he said about telling the audience what they already know, was this Chibnall’s favourite episode or something?
Not at all, Moffat wrote 14 out of the top 20 episodes of Doctor Who on IMDB, his episodes were 8+/10 95% of the time, he has some stinkers but so does your god and saviour RTD, like the 2012 Olympics episode or the Abzorbaloff episodes, or the Wasp episode.
@@PickyPaige the problem is the majority of the RTD era is good with a handfull of bad episodes. (42, love & monsters, fear her) The majority of the Moffat era is bad with a handful of good episodes. Chibnal is just strait up unwatchable.
The Smilers actually terrified me when I was a kid. I had a Doctor Who poster in my room and I had to rip off a corner because the red-eyed Smilers kept staring into my soul as I slept in my bed.
I wouldn’t say she “barely knows him” exactly. She met him as a child, spent an evening with him as he tried various foods, and then spent 12 years with him as an imaginary friend until he came back into her life. She may not know the real one, but she definitely knows her idea of him very well. That’s why he later takes her to the hotel in “The God Complex”, so she can come to terms with the fact that the real Doctor isn’t as wonderful as she’s come to believe.
@@mayotango1317 no he didn't. He spent the whole episode trying to figure out what was chasing them and what it wanted. If he went there on purpose to make Amy lose her faith in him, he would've known everything from the start
Either make it all action and have it be a fun romp or double down on the serious subject matter and make it darker. never try to combine the two. this is an example of why combining the two and not having the balance right doesn't work
I think one of the few examples where it is done right is "power rangers rpm", but then again, it was in a situation of the writers knowing the show is canceled and said "eff it! Lets make our final season go out with a bang"....but then the show got bought back and haf its own proverbial chibnal era.
In terms of second episodes, I actually like this one a lot more than The End of the World and The Ghost Monument. Still not amazing, but I think it’s solid and has its moments. Feels a bit like a 7th Doctor story to me.
The Ghost Monument isn't a standalone episode and I will fight people over it. It's a piss poor epilogue to the generally passable The Woman Who Fell To Earth that somehow got padded to be an hour long. Nothing that happens in the plot matters and it generally just functions to delay the reveal of the Tardis interior. We learn nothing new about the characters, it introduces at least 4 unnecessary plot holes, and its premise isn't internally or tonally consistent. It's the Fam wandering around South Africa for no reason other than wasting budget that they could have spent on a more competent production manager. Or a script reviewer. Anyways, end of rant! I personally still prefer TEotW to this, but I think this is decent enough. I would throw The Shakespeare Code and Tooth and Claw out as weaker second episodes. The problem is that I think NuWho has always struggled to some degree with second and third episodes. The opener and the first two parter are easy because they're allowed to go big, and one offs later in the season have more freedom to do interesting stuff because you're already comfortable with the characters. Episode 2 and 3 you're usually still setting the tone and introducing people, plus you've got to make a bit of contrast so the opener and first two-parter can really pop. These are like little snacks between the main courses: you want them to be fun, but not too filling. In this analogy, The Ghost Monument is your mum forcing you to sit at the table because you haven't finished all of your vegetables, despite the fact that you're pretty sure they're mouldy and your ice cream is melting on the countertop.
nonsense! The End Of The World was so much better than this. even if it had flaws, at least also had much more educational aspects and also it wasn't painfully underwhelming
Have to disagree about the non interference line This has come straight after the fully interfering Time Lord Victorious and so the Doctor is right to be skeptical. However, it is obvious the doctor has been able to bounce back from regeneration and thst tome in his life (something it wasn't obvious he would do- it seemed he could have mourned and sorrowed in his mistakes). So this shows that battle and how overall he is a new doctor and ready to go back to being his interfering self
Aww, I always liked this episode And at the time I first watched it, I did find the smilers quite scary Maybe the issues with this episode are more from an adult's perspective, you notice the plot holes and issues with it that you mentioned in this video But from a child's perspective it's a really good episode
I have to wonder if Moffat maybe attempted a political episode specifically because the audience was so used to them under the RTD era and he didn't want the switch to be too jarring, then never bothered again with Smith cos this ep turned out (admitted by himself) bad
political? not even a second in this episode made me remotely think that there's an attempt in political storyline. if Moffat's intentions were like that as you say, I must say he failed miserably
I liked the non-interferance policy exchange between Doctor and Amy. It gives off the same vibes as: "I hope you didn't take any of that Nitro-9 with you." "No, ofcourse not, Professor." "Go on, blow that up."
I think you misinterpret the ending quite a bit. The police state doesn't need to continue now that they know the star whale is there voluntarily. There's no longer a reason to have the populace vote on whether to forget. I know there isn't any dialogue stating that outright, but I've always thought it was an obvious implication of the conclusion.
@@108asf Have you forgotten that Queen Liz can literally dismantle them? She's the Queen. Our current Queen can't intervene but this is in the far future, so it's not much of a stretch to assume that Liz can.
I loved it. My first episode! I'm American and put on a random episode at Amazon prime and the rest is history! I feel in love with this doctor for children. It was my new favorite fairytale
I think the self indulgence of Moffat is far worse in Sherlock than in Doctor Who. Either I'm biased towards Who or it is actually worse in Sherlock, but I didn't finish the Sherlock series and I've watched all of nuwho
It is definitely way way way worse in Sherlock. I’ve never got the extreme love for Sherlock as watching it after Doctor who, the entire show just feels like Moffat thinking he’s an absolute genius. It’s so self indulgent and pat on the back writing. But saying that, he definitely has loads of those same moments with his time on Doctor who.
I'm so glad you highlighted the various ways that this episode was so off base for "first outing episode" of a new companion. Firstly, the "very old and very kind" exchange is indeed not a claim that Amy would possibly be able to make at that point of their relationship, and it honestly made me feel like she had watched seasons 1-4 of doctor who while she was in that voting chamber. Secondly, the way the Doctor scolded Amy for pressing the forget button. Like...literally 100 percent of people make the same choice, AND you've just brought her to the effing future on an effing spaceship for the first time, AND shes also some girl you've barely known for a few hours and somehow have unrealistically high expectations for her capabilities in high stress situations? What a dick. It took me a while to not hate this new guy after that. What poor writing.
SERIES 1-4, season 1-4 is the 1st doctor. And you get rather bashed over the head with the reminder that the doctor isnt human, but he lashed way too early with this
First off all, we're SUPPOSED to think he's wrong for saying that. Secondly, not "100% of people" choose it, just the ones who protest are fed to the Star Whale
I dont think this works as a second episode personally and i think it could of worked later especially before Vincent and The Doctor having Amy being emotional but not remembering why because of Rory being gone (Spoiler) and making her decisions in a emotional state
@@SethAurelius94 It just doesn't help that they don't do much except shout in their warehouse space ship. At least the new Dalek designs in Revolution of the Daleks get to go on an Extermination spree before the "Pure" Daleks show up.
Yeah, I remember this episode being a real mixed bag of promising ideas and bits that didn't land. I honestly completely forgot about the Smilers until this video. It's interesting that the Doctor being bigged up as really grandiose bothered me less in the RTD era than Moffat's. For example, in Human Nature/Family of Blood the kid with the fob watch gives a speech about how incredible and incomprehensibly special The Doctor is and it 1) felt earned and 2) served a purpose by contrasting with John Smith's mundane life and how he would be completely different if he chose to revert to a Time Lord. Then in the Matt Smith seasons it felt like over and over again the writers had scenes that were just The Doctor giving dramatic speeches that were meant to feel cool and everyone in the room crowing over his impressive he is. It kinda felt like the worst elements of BBC Sherlock's writing showing up. Hopefully Harbo's revisit will give a better impression of these moments but that's what I remember from my original viewing.
I love the fact that the Beast Below really pertains to the subterranean political system that keeps everything on a plateau and stemming progress, with people subconsciously complicit in this; their forgotten memories their own beasts below
It's sooooo weird. . . . I remember this as a Tennent episode. Not just mis-rememberd. I can still see him in my head being in this epidsode. I guess there's a similar story or stories with Donna and I've got my signals crossed.
Nah, I have to disagree mate, I think it's a pretty good episode, "it deserved a defending the dispised on it", don't get me wrong you're free to have your own opinions but one thing that personally always drew me to your videos is how you always tried to analyze doctor who episodes in a more emphatic light and give a positive perspective at some less acclaimed episodes, so seeing you being so overly negative bothers me a bit (I hope my criticism didn't come across as rude)
Whilst I disagree on this episode I'm sort of with you on the video presentation. I thought defending the despised was designed to give a more positive look to bad episodes, but it has become increasingly clear it’s just railing against the community for not getting some of his favourites.
Aye agreed it sounds kinda uncomfortable hearing him so unequivocally critical despite him usually so keen to show off the good points of an episode regardless of how few there are. Not saying he has to always be positive, but when it's so heavily weighted in favour of negativity it just sounds like he wants to drag on series 5 cus it's considered (one of) the best series of nuwho
ok ok, but hear me out: its a fun episode and i like the space whale. good writing < space whale but also i legitimately really like the ending/reveal, it's a good continuation of themes that were often brought up in RTD era, plus it reiterates why companions are so important
Wasn't the build-up for the hero worship the previous 4 series? The Doctor's been shown to have saved all of reality, and then after End of Time, has prevented the return of the Time War. Now 11 has a huge status around space-time, and over his tenure he deals with the ramifications of that.
Isn't his arc in his last series that he legitimately deletes himself from tons of databases which is already setup in the episode where we first meet Clara since he gets her to delete him from dalek records.
@@fazfoxy1119 Yeah, he decides at the end of series 6 to delete himself everywhere because the hero worship is what causes The Silence to try to kill him.
Me too…. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the first episode wasn’t great (it was alright but not the brilliant introduction everyone was saying it was) and then we had this one……
The only thing I can say I dont agree with about this episode is Amy's knowledge at the end. He literally told her all that at the beginning of the episode it makes sense that she would see the parallels between the two. We know she knows hes kind and, ancient because her only interactions with him so far are to rescue children who are in danger. Then right after he destroys the forgetting machine he literally says hes the last of his species and, that even when things hurt you have to do the right thing.
This is actually the first episode of Doctor Who I ever saw. Thought it was weird and didn't like it much but I still ended up watching the rest of the season and on from there and looking back at the davies era and here I am.
I liked most of this episode, even the end, but I'll definitely agree with the repetition of "very old, very kind, very last' thing. That always takes me out of the scene
so personally, definitely a fan of this episode, but I see some of your points and 3:50 when I think back to this episode, the smilers are definitely just... odd... they don't really connect to any of the other pieces, they're just kinda there to be 'oooooh scary!' 4:42 great, just ruined that scene for me 😭 10:04 damn, it's so weird to see the aftermath of one of your other videos, I see them as so standalone and then I see this.
I don’t think you get it, everyone in Ledworth does not hero-worship the Doctor. Amy went around the town telling EVERYONE about him and roping everyone in to her stories.
You say that the smilers aren't scary but when I first saw them when the ep came out I was scared shitless and the way their heads turn still sorta freak me out at the age of 20 :))) also aren't they meant to look out of place on the ship bc they're being maintained and cleaned by the gov idk
Are you kidding? The "Non-interference Policy" was a joke. He made a point of telling Amy not to get involved, only to go straight out and involve himself literally seconds later (as you yourself noted). It was never meant to be a serious plot point or part of his character. It was just a cheap laugh. You might not think it was a funny joke, but you definitely don't need to get bent out of shape over it.
Its funny cus this is one of the only amy pind era episodes i remember because its essentially "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" but with a space whale. And the ending is memorable.
I’m sorry but you have fundamentally misunderstood the themes and inspiration for this story, it’s not 1984 nor is it meant to be it ‘The One who walks away’ by Ursula K Le Guin but rewritten as a fairy tale for children, it’s not about oppression at all but about empathy and how artificially limiting our empathy reduces our humanity. Of course it’s doing 1984 badly because it’s not doing or even attempting to do 1984!
The title is there to get you to click on the video. And it did. I don't mention 1984 or draw parallels to it in the video. I know it's not inspired by 1984, but "When Doctor Who Did a Futuristic Dystopian Police State About Space Whales" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? People equate any dystopia to 1984, therefore by using it in the title, it sums up all the dystopian themes and criticisms within a simple sentence that anyone can immediately understand. Blame the UA-cam algorithm for it, not me
@@HarboWholmes my point is there was a better literary allusion to make, it’s clearly a riff on the Ursula K Le Guin story, which is fundamentally different in that it’s not about oppression or the ‘illusion’ of choice but rather about collective responsibility for an immoral choice, the abdicate button worked, and it always could have worked, the choice was always there. Democracy, as it turns out, was not an illusion, after all and once the choice is made not to turn a blind eye, you begin the process of fundamental change for the better. And if you want a catchy hot take for the algorithm, the obvious climate change allegory is low hanging fruit
Im ngl this is one of my favourite episodes idk why people don’t like it. I think it’s got a really cool concept and it develops the relationship between the doctor and Amy very well.
I can't remember if I said this on the last video, but I'll keep saying it because it needs to be said. Calling the doctor hero worship at the start of Smith's run pointless is unjustified. The doctors character arc across these seasons is the fall of a great man. He goes from someone everyone loves and looks up to (a reasonable start given the previous few seasons), but as he takes this influence and uses it too openly he becomes someone feared and a target. He tries hiding, but it's not until he confronts his past that he can start to rediscover what it means to be the doctor in capaldis run. I also think that this episode, for its flaws, does good job of exposing this early tendency of 11 to take things too far. Here he was willing to kill a creature before exhausting all other avenues. And he complained, and mourned the creature he was about to kill, but he also blamed others around him and didn't admit that he made a mistake. Sure he didn't get humbled for that on this episode, but that came later, this episode was setup.
4:42 is the funniest thing in the world. 😂 Never laughed so hard at a UA-cam video before. I never actually thought of it like that. The Doctor’s looking up her dress 😩😂😩😂😂
Drinking game for this video: take a shot every time Harbo says "Style Over Substance". Jokes aside, I'll respect your constructive criticism and I must admit there's a good opportunity for anyone to make a good video Essay comparing "The Beast Below" to "The End of the World" to show what makes a good or bad episode 2/companion's first outing episode to a series.
Kind of in agreement with the video, that this is a story that's been done many times before, and often better than it was here. But comments underneath are largely positive so I'll have to give this one another go.
I agree with you. I thought this episode was awful. After really enjoying the first episode of Matt Smith run. I really looked forward to this one and was disappointed. So glad that there recovered.
It’s a shame Liz 10 didn’t make any more appearances in the show after this (apart from the opening of The Pandorica Opens), I actually thought she was quite a badass and would’ve loved have to seen her in other key moments of Smith’s run like for example have her fight alongside everyone else at Demons Run in Good Man Goes To War but eh-oh, guess that wasn’t meant to be 🤷🏻♂️
@@108asf yeah, but time of the doctor SHOULD have been an entire series, but they compacted it down to one episode, you can see where at least 4 of the stories are
I don’t even like this episode at all, but i feel as if these last two reviews have been overly negative. Which is strange, considering you’ve made a bit of a thing of trying your best to defend even the worst of the Davis era, but with Moffat you seem to be very overly critical (even in episodes of his that were in the previous era, to an extent). It just makes you come off as a bit biased toward Davis, considering you’d happily defend a far worse episode (eg Fear Her), but absolutely rip into this and to a lesser extent the Eleventh Hour. And to be clear, this is coming from somebody who grew up with the RTD era and considers it the best in the show’s history- I’m not an angry Moffat fanboy by any means
I just don't like Series 5, no deeper agenda or ulterior motive. I love Moffat, especially the Capaldi era, but I simply don't vibe with Series 5, I prefer 6 and 7a
@@HarboWholmes fair enough, i suppose everybody has different tastes- sorry if I implied you just hate Moffat that wasn’t my intention. Also, regardless of whether or not i agree with your reviews, i would just like to say that they are very entertaining, well edited and well structured, i admire the amount of work you put into them.
Some episodes don't need monster villains - the rest of the story without the smilers still works and is a pretty interesting idea to explore. The villains are the ones manipulating everyone into keeping the space whale chained up and tortured, and that could've been enough
Oh my .. i just started getting into Doctor Who and i think i’m glad i’m not overthinking everything, i mean i guess you have to do that and pay a lot of attention to the smallest detail if you’re going to make a video essay about it .. what i’m saying is I understand your criticism but i’m glad I didn’t really care while watching this episode and just enjoyed it.
That point about the Doctor's unwarranted anger with Amy is something that irks me about this episode too. The Doctor has no right to treat Amy like that given that he's made worse mistakes and he let Rose get away with worse. And his anger at Humanity is hypocritical considering this is just two episodes after The End of Time, where we learn that the Time Lords were planning to destroy time itself. Yep, Beast Below is a mediocre mess. It's just slightly above the horrific rubbish that Moffat and Chibnall wrote from series 6 onwards, but it is definitely an episode that I don't go back to in a hurry.
It's funny actually, as a child, the smiler people actually did terrify me as a kid, and remain 1 of the only doctor who monsters i remember seeing then that ever did.
Yeah a plot hole that can never overlook about this episode is the fact that this is only the UK starship meaning one of 2 things either the rest of the major nations or earth had enough advancements in technology to not need a star whale for assistance or they all had their own star whale help them out.
To Steven Moffat's credit, he outright admitted that he thought this episode was a mess. The man is a professional through and through because unlike most people in the film industry, he's willing to openly admit it when he makes a mistake.
When I was small I was shit scared of the puppet things, much more so than the empty child In fact it was due to this episode that I didn’t watch the rest of s5 when it came out
This episode has good and bas things, but it could have work better as an episode before a season finale. It doesn't make sense that Amy has to make this choice that soon.
Wait isn't it implied that Liz 10 will no longer allow the police state, especially since she will never be erasing her memory again. I don't like the episode its boring but that criticism sees off
You’re right. Starship UK is a fantastic setting that is used for a poor story. It would have been great to return to Starship UK in later seasons. Imagine if we’d got one episode set there in every Moffat season.
@@mayotango1317 Man, you sure do love replying to a bunch of people that agreed with the video. I think Steven Moffat deserves some criticism, dude, chill out.
@@mayotango1317 Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man. In all seriousness though, I did go back and watch all of Matt Smith's episodes later, and there are a few episodes here and there that I did really enjoy, I just think that Moffat in general was a terrible showrunner. Where Chibnall is absolutely talentless and has 0 ambition besides ruining Doctor Who, Moffat had talent as a writer but too much ambition, and he made Matt Smith's seasons a style over substance affair. As I said though, there were episodes I did really enjoy, like Vincent and the Doctor, The God Complex, Night Terrors, and the Rings of Akhaten, but they were few and far between.
I never realized it was so hated. I remembered it as one of those episodes that stood out but that I also largely forgot about, like _The Unquiet Dead._
its alright, its doesnt get me mad enough though. i hardly remember it, but its just meh. i would say C tier. it isn't a big of a shock as Victory of the daleks. please be kind to The Big Bang. its a fun episode with the vortex manipulator and i adore matt smith's performance in it.
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I’m sorry, your threat holds no water.
This is 2021, where 1984 seems like an almost utopian dream. In only 9 years, we’ll own nothing, and have moved into the worst of Orwell and Huxley combined.
At least Winston owned his own telescreen, didn’t need to deal with Facebook and had a place he could hide with Julia for a while……
This is actually a take on “the ones who walk away from Omelas” by Ursula K. Le Guin. In it the town of omelas doesn’t have any grief or problems but when people reach voting age they find out that a child is tortured every year for them to be able to live as they do. It’s a word for word copy of that instead of 1984. I think that would be a more interesting comparison. Great video though!
I agree.
1984 is probably just the only dystopia story this guy knows lmao
Fair critiques, can't disagree with anything, but I am a big fan of this one. Flaws and all, it's just a romp with some interesting things to say and fun visuals to look at.
Same. It feels very bioshock. I just like the cynicism, people forgetting what happens when they vote Tory is how someone described it.
I certainly prefer it's handling of democracy to something like Kill the Moon- I still don't get what that was going for
@@Ben-vf5gk Most of Peter Harness’ work (on DW at least) is skeptical of democracy. Not in a pro-authoritarian way, but moreso thinking about the moral failings of the system. Specifically in Kill the Moon, Harness shows how even democratic decisions can be immoral, yet that doesn’t excuse them. There’s also a case to be made that the decision in KtM isn’t democratic, as world governments could be shutting off power grids to enforce their own decision, but that still comes from skepticism of how democracy is easily influenced.
@@TheoreticalRain Fair.
I just wish the episode had explored that more if it was gonna do it. We don't cut away to anyone on earth and see their reaction to what they're being told. Maybe we could have seen a glimpse of governments shutting of power grids?
It certainly makes Kill the Moon's abortion or taking on reproduction futurism reading even more dubious. That doesn't have to be a problem- there are other readings. But it does make me disbelieve the ending where the human race falls back in love with the beauty of the universe- more likely mob mentality will prevail and they'll hunt the space dragon down.
@ ... In universe she's covered in puke tho
@@Ben-vf5gk Hey I ain't fussy....
Honestly, I really love this episode. This shows the other side of the Doctor after the eleventh hour. Yes, it's a slow burn, but it has a really interesting mystery and some fascinating philosophical questions.
To me this episode highlights one of my biggest gripes of of Moffat era. Putting creepy storybook ideas into the episode because they fit his motif without any in universe explanation. Why are there creepy antique carnival robots all over the ship as a security force instead of just cameras? Why is the elevator programmed to have a kid read an unsettling poem before dropping people to thier doom? Is the knowledge of a tortured space whale literally so traumatic for everyone to process that no one at all has chosen go remember, even if just for the purpose of putting a stop to it? What does being "half smiler" even mean?! What is the in universe reason why any of this stuff is here?
Is just Bioshock Columbia or Rapture but in Space.
You'll never catch me saying anything bad about the episode that gave us Karen Gillan in a wet nightie...
The Doctor says in the episode anyone who protests is fed to the Star Whale. Maybe you would understand it more if you actually paid attention.
@@zoewells3160 I paid attention fine thank you. Still doesn't address any of my questions.
A. How does anyone know that it is eating people?
B. So this star whale that has subjected itself to literal torture to save humans is also indiscriminately eating them?
Maybe you'd have better clarity on these issues if you paid attention enough to notice them.
@@chrisnicholson2407
The average citizen doesn't know that it's eating people, nor that it exists. That's the point. Or, at least, they don't want to know. It's kinda a metaphor for how everyone living in the developed world inherently benefits from horrific exploitation of somebody somewhere down the line. Anyway, the Doctor and Amy get a slight clue this is happening when they almost get eaten themselves. Also, Hawthorne explicitly admits this to the Doctor, Amy, and Liz Ten when they discover the Star Whale.
Also, it didn't subject itself to torture. It wanted to help them, but it didn't need to be tortured for that to happen. They subjected it to torture. It didn't ask to be tortured. Anyway, yes it eats them. What else would it eat? They don't feed it anything else. It doesn't eat the children though.
The thing is that this season was written as a continuation of the RTD era, hence a lot of themes carried over. I think they even said that some of this was written with David Tennant as the Doctor in mind. The attempt is to keep fans of the previous era engaged with familiarity, but it does slightly undermine the fresh start of a new era. Particularly when the attempt to emulate RTD’S style is as ham fisted as this episode.
Series 5 is so different of what RTD did and it’s truly a fresh start. First time I hear someone say otherwise 😅
Interestingly enough, this story was adapted from an idea in the 80s.
That’s a common Moffat theme:
‘A good idea, with a disappointing result’
Wait for Chibnall...just wait.
@@mayotango1317 Actually to be fair throughout watching this video, everything that he said about telling the audience what they already know, was this Chibnall’s favourite episode or something?
Not at all, Moffat wrote 14 out of the top 20 episodes of Doctor Who on IMDB, his episodes were 8+/10 95% of the time, he has some stinkers but so does your god and saviour RTD, like the 2012 Olympics episode or the Abzorbaloff episodes, or the Wasp episode.
@@PickyPaige The Unicorn And The Wasp was amazing tho????
@@PickyPaige the problem is the majority of the RTD era is good with a handfull of bad episodes. (42, love & monsters, fear her) The majority of the Moffat era is bad with a handful of good episodes. Chibnal is just strait up unwatchable.
The Smilers actually terrified me when I was a kid. I had a Doctor Who poster in my room and I had to rip off a corner because the red-eyed Smilers kept staring into my soul as I slept in my bed.
I wouldn’t say she “barely knows him” exactly.
She met him as a child, spent an evening with him as he tried various foods, and then spent 12 years with him as an imaginary friend until he came back into her life.
She may not know the real one, but she definitely knows her idea of him very well. That’s why he later takes her to the hotel in “The God Complex”, so she can come to terms with the fact that the real Doctor isn’t as wonderful as she’s come to believe.
Well he didn't take her to the hotel on purpose
@@mrdr0161 Maybe yes.
@@mayotango1317 no he didn't. He spent the whole episode trying to figure out what was chasing them and what it wanted. If he went there on purpose to make Amy lose her faith in him, he would've known everything from the start
Either make it all action and have it be a fun romp or double down on the serious subject matter and make it darker. never try to combine the two. this is an example of why combining the two and not having the balance right doesn't work
I think one of the few examples where it is done right is "power rangers rpm", but then again, it was in a situation of the writers knowing the show is canceled and said "eff it! Lets make our final season go out with a bang"....but then the show got bought back and haf its own proverbial chibnal era.
In terms of second episodes, I actually like this one a lot more than The End of the World and The Ghost Monument. Still not amazing, but I think it’s solid and has its moments. Feels a bit like a 7th Doctor story to me.
Anything looks good compared to The Ghost Monument. I do like this one though.
The Ghost Monument isn't a standalone episode and I will fight people over it. It's a piss poor epilogue to the generally passable The Woman Who Fell To Earth that somehow got padded to be an hour long. Nothing that happens in the plot matters and it generally just functions to delay the reveal of the Tardis interior. We learn nothing new about the characters, it introduces at least 4 unnecessary plot holes, and its premise isn't internally or tonally consistent. It's the Fam wandering around South Africa for no reason other than wasting budget that they could have spent on a more competent production manager. Or a script reviewer.
Anyways, end of rant! I personally still prefer TEotW to this, but I think this is decent enough. I would throw The Shakespeare Code and Tooth and Claw out as weaker second episodes. The problem is that I think NuWho has always struggled to some degree with second and third episodes. The opener and the first two parter are easy because they're allowed to go big, and one offs later in the season have more freedom to do interesting stuff because you're already comfortable with the characters. Episode 2 and 3 you're usually still setting the tone and introducing people, plus you've got to make a bit of contrast so the opener and first two-parter can really pop. These are like little snacks between the main courses: you want them to be fun, but not too filling. In this analogy, The Ghost Monument is your mum forcing you to sit at the table because you haven't finished all of your vegetables, despite the fact that you're pretty sure they're mouldy and your ice cream is melting on the countertop.
nonsense! The End Of The World was so much better than this. even if it had flaws, at least also had much more educational aspects and also it wasn't painfully underwhelming
Have to disagree about the non interference line
This has come straight after the fully interfering Time Lord Victorious and so the Doctor is right to be skeptical. However, it is obvious the doctor has been able to bounce back from regeneration and thst tome in his life (something it wasn't obvious he would do- it seemed he could have mourned and sorrowed in his mistakes). So this shows that battle and how overall he is a new doctor and ready to go back to being his interfering self
Aww, I always liked this episode
And at the time I first watched it, I did find the smilers quite scary
Maybe the issues with this episode are more from an adult's perspective, you notice the plot holes and issues with it that you mentioned in this video
But from a child's perspective it's a really good episode
Completely agree, this episode was quite good compared to the mess of the moon-visiting Spitfires in the next episode.
I have to wonder if Moffat maybe attempted a political episode specifically because the audience was so used to them under the RTD era and he didn't want the switch to be too jarring, then never bothered again with Smith cos this ep turned out (admitted by himself) bad
political? not even a second in this episode made me remotely think that there's an attempt in political storyline. if Moffat's intentions were like that as you say, I must say he failed miserably
I liked the non-interferance policy exchange between Doctor and Amy. It gives off the same vibes as:
"I hope you didn't take any of that Nitro-9 with you."
"No, ofcourse not, Professor."
"Go on, blow that up."
I think you misinterpret the ending quite a bit. The police state doesn't need to continue now that they know the star whale is there voluntarily. There's no longer a reason to have the populace vote on whether to forget. I know there isn't any dialogue stating that outright, but I've always thought it was an obvious implication of the conclusion.
It's britain, they are gonna keep it anyway
@@108asf Have you forgotten that Queen Liz can literally dismantle them? She's the Queen. Our current Queen can't intervene but this is in the far future, so it's not much of a stretch to assume that Liz can.
I loved it. My first episode! I'm American and put on a random episode at Amazon prime and the rest is history! I feel in love with this doctor for children. It was my new favorite fairytale
A bit unrealistic, it isn’t quite as authoritarian and dystopian as Britain is in the real world 😉
@@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212 😂 😂 As a kid I wanted to move to Britain because of this show
I think the self indulgence of Moffat is far worse in Sherlock than in Doctor Who. Either I'm biased towards Who or it is actually worse in Sherlock, but I didn't finish the Sherlock series and I've watched all of nuwho
It is definitely way way way worse in Sherlock. I’ve never got the extreme love for Sherlock as watching it after Doctor who, the entire show just feels like Moffat thinking he’s an absolute genius. It’s so self indulgent and pat on the back writing. But saying that, he definitely has loads of those same moments with his time on Doctor who.
I'm so glad you highlighted the various ways that this episode was so off base for "first outing episode" of a new companion. Firstly, the "very old and very kind" exchange is indeed not a claim that Amy would possibly be able to make at that point of their relationship, and it honestly made me feel like she had watched seasons 1-4 of doctor who while she was in that voting chamber. Secondly, the way the Doctor scolded Amy for pressing the forget button. Like...literally 100 percent of people make the same choice, AND you've just brought her to the effing future on an effing spaceship for the first time, AND shes also some girl you've barely known for a few hours and somehow have unrealistically high expectations for her capabilities in high stress situations? What a dick. It took me a while to not hate this new guy after that. What poor writing.
SERIES 1-4, season 1-4 is the 1st doctor. And you get rather bashed over the head with the reminder that the doctor isnt human, but he lashed way too early with this
First off all, we're SUPPOSED to think he's wrong for saying that. Secondly, not "100% of people" choose it, just the ones who protest are fed to the Star Whale
No, is what RTD did with Adam Mitchell.
Never knew people didn't like this one, it's one of my favorites.
I dont think this works as a second episode personally and i think it could of worked later especially before Vincent and The Doctor having Amy being emotional but not remembering why because of Rory being gone (Spoiler) and making her decisions in a emotional state
tbh I remember being terrified of the Smilers and I actually find them an interesting concept
I’ve only got two words to say
SPACE WHALES!!!!!
Next up victory of the daleks with the colour daleks who didn’t get much credit.
It's unfortunate that the dalek redesign got so much flack
I actually really like the daleks having different ranks and functions.
Basically a copy paste of Power of the Daleks
@@SethAurelius94 It just doesn't help that they don't do much except shout in their warehouse space ship.
At least the new Dalek designs in Revolution of the Daleks get to go on an Extermination spree before the "Pure" Daleks show up.
You really don't like Smith's era do you.
Yeah, I remember this episode being a real mixed bag of promising ideas and bits that didn't land. I honestly completely forgot about the Smilers until this video.
It's interesting that the Doctor being bigged up as really grandiose bothered me less in the RTD era than Moffat's. For example, in Human Nature/Family of Blood the kid with the fob watch gives a speech about how incredible and incomprehensibly special The Doctor is and it 1) felt earned and 2) served a purpose by contrasting with John Smith's mundane life and how he would be completely different if he chose to revert to a Time Lord.
Then in the Matt Smith seasons it felt like over and over again the writers had scenes that were just The Doctor giving dramatic speeches that were meant to feel cool and everyone in the room crowing over his impressive he is. It kinda felt like the worst elements of BBC Sherlock's writing showing up.
Hopefully Harbo's revisit will give a better impression of these moments but that's what I remember from my original viewing.
Is the Fourth Doctor god mod in the classic Series.
I love the fact that the Beast Below really pertains to the subterranean political system that keeps everything on a plateau and stemming progress, with people subconsciously complicit in this; their forgotten memories their own beasts below
It's sooooo weird. . . . I remember this as a Tennent episode. Not just mis-rememberd. I can still see him in my head being in this epidsode. I guess there's a similar story or stories with Donna and I've got my signals crossed.
Yes, I think it's because this episode feels a bit like Gridlock and a lot like Planet of the Ood... but it lacks something.
Maybe you were in alternate universe where tennant didn't quit after season 4.
Nah, I have to disagree mate, I think it's a pretty good episode, "it deserved a defending the dispised on it",
don't get me wrong you're free to have your own opinions but one thing that personally always drew me to your videos is how you always tried to analyze doctor who episodes in a more emphatic light and give a positive perspective at some less acclaimed episodes, so seeing you being so overly negative bothers me a bit
(I hope my criticism didn't come across as rude)
Whilst I disagree on this episode I'm sort of with you on the video presentation. I thought defending the despised was designed to give a more positive look to bad episodes, but it has become increasingly clear it’s just railing against the community for not getting some of his favourites.
Aye agreed it sounds kinda uncomfortable hearing him so unequivocally critical despite him usually so keen to show off the good points of an episode regardless of how few there are. Not saying he has to always be positive, but when it's so heavily weighted in favour of negativity it just sounds like he wants to drag on series 5 cus it's considered (one of) the best series of nuwho
it's bad.
ok ok, but hear me out: its a fun episode and i like the space whale. good writing < space whale
but also i legitimately really like the ending/reveal, it's a good continuation of themes that were often brought up in RTD era, plus it reiterates why companions are so important
I WILL DEFEND THIS EPISODE UNTIL IM 6 FEET UNDERGROUND!!
Same
Omg same, Liz Ten was great
YESSIR
Wasn't the build-up for the hero worship the previous 4 series? The Doctor's been shown to have saved all of reality, and then after End of Time, has prevented the return of the Time War. Now 11 has a huge status around space-time, and over his tenure he deals with the ramifications of that.
Isn't his arc in his last series that he legitimately deletes himself from tons of databases which is already setup in the episode where we first meet Clara since he gets her to delete him from dalek records.
@@fazfoxy1119 Yeah, he decides at the end of series 6 to delete himself everywhere because the hero worship is what causes The Silence to try to kill him.
That's odd. I've never had that much of a problem with it. I prefer it to The Time of Angels and The Vampires of Venice.
I had no idea this episode was hated. It‘s one of my favorites of series 5.
This episode was a bit messy but it's slightly galling seeing how kind you were about it's failures, compared to say, love and monsters...
I had a lot of difficulty accepting Smith after Tennant. This didn't help. IMO it got better (eventually)...wondering if you see it the same way.
Me too…. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the first episode wasn’t great (it was alright but not the brilliant introduction everyone was saying it was) and then we had this one……
Same here. I'm trying to enjoy the new guy but this episode and the previous one felt disappointing
The only thing I can say I dont agree with about this episode is Amy's knowledge at the end. He literally told her all that at the beginning of the episode it makes sense that she would see the parallels between the two. We know she knows hes kind and, ancient because her only interactions with him so far are to rescue children who are in danger. Then right after he destroys the forgetting machine he literally says hes the last of his species and, that even when things hurt you have to do the right thing.
10:00 the next line Eleven says right after that pretty much explains it.
Criticize this episode all you want...it is Shakespeare compared to the crap we get now
This is actually the first episode of Doctor Who I ever saw. Thought it was weird and didn't like it much but I still ended up watching the rest of the season and on from there and looking back at the davies era and here I am.
I always loved this episode, looking forward to hearing your arguments
I think the queen would have been a better monarch if she’s seen a skillshare lesson on how to rule LOL
I liked most of this episode, even the end, but I'll definitely agree with the repetition of "very old, very kind, very last' thing. That always takes me out of the scene
so personally, definitely a fan of this episode, but I see some of your points and
3:50 when I think back to this episode, the smilers are definitely just... odd... they don't really connect to any of the other pieces, they're just kinda there to be 'oooooh scary!'
4:42 great, just ruined that scene for me 😭
10:04 damn, it's so weird to see the aftermath of one of your other videos, I see them as so standalone and then I see this.
I don’t think you get it, everyone in Ledworth does not hero-worship the Doctor. Amy went around the town telling EVERYONE about him and roping everyone in to her stories.
He is a Moffat Hater.
You say that the smilers aren't scary but when I first saw them when the ep came out I was scared shitless and the way their heads turn still sorta freak me out at the age of 20 :))) also aren't they meant to look out of place on the ship bc they're being maintained and cleaned by the gov idk
Are you kidding? The "Non-interference Policy" was a joke. He made a point of telling Amy not to get involved, only to go straight out and involve himself literally seconds later (as you yourself noted).
It was never meant to be a serious plot point or part of his character. It was just a cheap laugh. You might not think it was a funny joke, but you definitely don't need to get bent out of shape over it.
I do not understand why ppl dotn like this episode I think its a really strong one
Still had some amazing scenes and kept the fair tale element in the series.
Its funny cus this is one of the only amy pind era episodes i remember because its essentially "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" but with a space whale. And the ending is memorable.
Loving these recent thumbnails Harbo
I’m sorry but you have fundamentally misunderstood the themes and inspiration for this story, it’s not 1984 nor is it meant to be it ‘The One who walks away’ by Ursula K Le Guin but rewritten as a fairy tale for children, it’s not about oppression at all but about empathy and how artificially limiting our empathy reduces our humanity. Of course it’s doing 1984 badly because it’s not doing or even attempting to do 1984!
The title is there to get you to click on the video. And it did. I don't mention 1984 or draw parallels to it in the video. I know it's not inspired by 1984, but "When Doctor Who Did a Futuristic Dystopian Police State About Space Whales" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? People equate any dystopia to 1984, therefore by using it in the title, it sums up all the dystopian themes and criticisms within a simple sentence that anyone can immediately understand. Blame the UA-cam algorithm for it, not me
@@HarboWholmes my point is there was a better literary allusion to make, it’s clearly a riff on the Ursula K Le Guin story, which is fundamentally different in that it’s not about oppression or the ‘illusion’ of choice but rather about collective responsibility for an immoral choice, the abdicate button worked, and it always could have worked, the choice was always there. Democracy, as it turns out, was not an illusion, after all and once the choice is made not to turn a blind eye, you begin the process of fundamental change for the better. And if you want a catchy hot take for the algorithm, the obvious climate change allegory is low hanging fruit
@@HarboWholmes uh no I blame you. It's a shit title.
‘It’s obvious they wanted them to be nightmare fuel but they aren’t’
Me: >.> they were for me
Im ngl this is one of my favourite episodes idk why people don’t like it.
I think it’s got a really cool concept and it develops the relationship between the doctor and Amy very well.
I can't remember if I said this on the last video, but I'll keep saying it because it needs to be said.
Calling the doctor hero worship at the start of Smith's run pointless is unjustified. The doctors character arc across these seasons is the fall of a great man. He goes from someone everyone loves and looks up to (a reasonable start given the previous few seasons), but as he takes this influence and uses it too openly he becomes someone feared and a target. He tries hiding, but it's not until he confronts his past that he can start to rediscover what it means to be the doctor in capaldis run.
I also think that this episode, for its flaws, does good job of exposing this early tendency of 11 to take things too far. Here he was willing to kill a creature before exhausting all other avenues. And he complained, and mourned the creature he was about to kill, but he also blamed others around him and didn't admit that he made a mistake. Sure he didn't get humbled for that on this episode, but that came later, this episode was setup.
4:42 is the funniest thing in the world. 😂 Never laughed so hard at a UA-cam video before. I never actually thought of it like that. The Doctor’s looking up her dress 😩😂😩😂😂
Actually a bit of a Mandela effect for me, I was sure that he was holding Amy’s hand. Probably just misremembered it.🤷🏻♀️
Drinking game for this video: take a shot every time Harbo says "Style Over Substance".
Jokes aside, I'll respect your constructive criticism and I must admit there's a good opportunity for anyone to make a good video Essay comparing "The Beast Below" to "The End of the World" to show what makes a good or bad episode 2/companion's first outing episode to a series.
I bet they wouldn’t have abducted the whale if they had seen a skillshare lesson on how to be nice LOLLLLL!!!
I didn't think it episode was that bad... I actually enjoyed it
Damn, literally 1984.
With some elements taken from 'the ones who walk away from Omelas'
11:30 when I first watched this episode, I paused it at that moment and said, “hey wait a minute.” I can’t believe they didn’t catch that!
Kind of in agreement with the video, that this is a story that's been done many times before, and often better than it was here. But comments underneath are largely positive so I'll have to give this one another go.
I agree with you. I thought this episode was awful. After really enjoying the first episode of Matt Smith run.
I really looked forward to this one and was disappointed. So glad that there recovered.
It’s a shame Liz 10 didn’t make any more appearances in the show after this (apart from the opening of The Pandorica Opens), I actually thought she was quite a badass and would’ve loved have to seen her in other key moments of Smith’s run like for example have her fight alongside everyone else at Demons Run in Good Man Goes To War but eh-oh, guess that wasn’t meant to be 🤷🏻♂️
Wait. So what's the worst one Moffat has ever written in his eyes now?
Idk what he thinks, but it should be Time of the doctor
@@108asf yeah, but time of the doctor SHOULD have been an entire series, but they compacted it down to one episode, you can see where at least 4 of the stories are
I don’t even like this episode at all, but i feel as if these last two reviews have been overly negative. Which is strange, considering you’ve made a bit of a thing of trying your best to defend even the worst of the Davis era, but with Moffat you seem to be very overly critical (even in episodes of his that were in the previous era, to an extent). It just makes you come off as a bit biased toward Davis, considering you’d happily defend a far worse episode (eg Fear Her), but absolutely rip into this and to a lesser extent the Eleventh Hour.
And to be clear, this is coming from somebody who grew up with the RTD era and considers it the best in the show’s history- I’m not an angry Moffat fanboy by any means
I just don't like Series 5, no deeper agenda or ulterior motive. I love Moffat, especially the Capaldi era, but I simply don't vibe with Series 5, I prefer 6 and 7a
@@HarboWholmes fair enough, i suppose everybody has different tastes- sorry if I implied you just hate Moffat that wasn’t my intention. Also, regardless of whether or not i agree with your reviews, i would just like to say that they are very entertaining, well edited and well structured, i admire the amount of work you put into them.
I actually really liked the beast below. BB, victory of the daleks, and the doctor's wife are my favorite mat smith episodes.
Some episodes don't need monster villains - the rest of the story without the smilers still works and is a pretty interesting idea to explore. The villains are the ones manipulating everyone into keeping the space whale chained up and tortured, and that could've been enough
huh, just realised how its kinda doctor who's take on walle
I always find it odd that the smilers appeared pretty prominently in the series 5 trailers despite, arguably being one of the weakest villains
Noone else notice "The Demon Headmaster" actor is in this episode as one of the Queens servants?
15:40 I did not just hear 2 talking heads references back to back
Arthur Darvil would be happy he's a big Talking Heads fan
Can I get a Biased for 400
Oh my .. i just started getting into Doctor Who and i think i’m glad i’m not overthinking everything, i mean i guess you have to do that and pay a lot of attention to the smallest detail if you’re going to make a video essay about it .. what i’m saying is I understand your criticism but i’m glad I didn’t really care while watching this episode and just enjoyed it.
I always remembered this one as a Tennant episode for some reason
I wish this episode was ranked lower as Harbo says this is one of the worst episodes of New Who and it is only TWO RANKS BELOW THE ELEVENTH HOUR!!
Ruining a great concept by trying to be clever is basically the biggest problem with a lot of Moffat's writing in a nutshell.
Me, living in Kent: Wait WHAT
I'm so sorry to hear that
@@HarboWholmes YOU’re KILLING ME
At least we dont live in Slough.
"Stan, me and Kenny don't give two shits about stupid ass whales."
That point about the Doctor's unwarranted anger with Amy is something that irks me about this episode too. The Doctor has no right to treat Amy like that given that he's made worse mistakes and he let Rose get away with worse. And his anger at Humanity is hypocritical considering this is just two episodes after The End of Time, where we learn that the Time Lords were planning to destroy time itself. Yep, Beast Below is a mediocre mess. It's just slightly above the horrific rubbish that Moffat and Chibnall wrote from series 6 onwards, but it is definitely an episode that I don't go back to in a hurry.
Remember Adam Mitchell?
I actually felt scared and uncomftable when I was younger watching the kid in the lift scene ,pretty much a lot actually
There’s definitely worse episodes that Moffatt has written, it’s not perfect but there’s aspects of the concept which is interesting
The fact that the concept is interesting just makes it all the more painful that nothing interesting is done with it. Such wasted potential.
It's funny actually, as a child, the smiler people actually did terrify me as a kid, and remain 1 of the only doctor who monsters i remember seeing then that ever did.
One could say it's a 'forgetful' episode.
I thought Hawthrone was an incarnation of the Master when I first watched this
Wasn't there a rumor at the time he was going to be the Meddling Monk?
@@thomasleongeorgerobertglad7560 oh yeah I forgot about that
Yeah a plot hole that can never overlook about this episode is the fact that this is only the UK starship meaning one of 2 things either the rest of the major nations or earth had enough advancements in technology to not need a star whale for assistance or they all had their own star whale help them out.
This is the 24 century. And the same episode explain that.
@@mayotango1317 Really well then I'm gonna have to rewatch it thanks.
I actually really liked this episode, but it certainly could've been way way wayyyy better
To Steven Moffat's credit, he outright admitted that he thought this episode was a mess. The man is a professional through and through because unlike most people in the film industry, he's willing to openly admit it when he makes a mistake.
This had terrible flaws and wasn’t great but its 20x better than any 13th doctor episode
When I was small I was shit scared of the puppet things, much more so than the empty child
In fact it was due to this episode that I didn’t watch the rest of s5 when it came out
It is a fun episode. It is thought provoking. I did not see it as very much like 1984.
They just mentioned it because they don't know any other dystopias. I can't imagine this person reads very much
This episode has good and bas things, but it could have work better as an episode before a season finale. It doesn't make sense that Amy has to make this choice that soon.
Amy had a idea about the Doctor for years, all her live she make stories about the Doctor.
Wait isn't it implied that Liz 10 will no longer allow the police state, especially since she will never be erasing her memory again.
I don't like the episode its boring but that criticism sees off
It definitely would have been cool to come back to the ship in future episodes.
No, the universe is so big in the Moffat era.
You’re right. Starship UK is a fantastic setting that is used for a poor story. It would have been great to return to Starship UK in later seasons. Imagine if we’d got one episode set there in every Moffat season.
Perhaps for someone unimaginative like RTD it would have been possible, but Moffat reminds us that the TARDIS can travel anywhere.
This is the episode that made me take a long hiatus from watching Doctor Who. I didn't come back until Capaldi's first episode.
You missing so many great episodes.
@@mayotango1317 Man, you sure do love replying to a bunch of people that agreed with the video. I think Steven Moffat deserves some criticism, dude, chill out.
@@chrisvandergriff504 Ah, a Chibnall fanboy. You must love The Timeless Children.
@@mayotango1317 Buddy, I hate the Chibnall era.
@@mayotango1317 Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man.
In all seriousness though, I did go back and watch all of Matt Smith's episodes later, and there are a few episodes here and there that I did really enjoy, I just think that Moffat in general was a terrible showrunner. Where Chibnall is absolutely talentless and has 0 ambition besides ruining Doctor Who, Moffat had talent as a writer but too much ambition, and he made Matt Smith's seasons a style over substance affair. As I said though, there were episodes I did really enjoy, like Vincent and the Doctor, The God Complex, Night Terrors, and the Rings of Akhaten, but they were few and far between.
I never realized it was so hated. I remembered it as one of those episodes that stood out but that I also largely forgot about, like _The Unquiet Dead._
It’s not. This is just one strong opinion from one person, which they are of course entitled to, but the majority of people seem to like it just fine.
its alright, its doesnt get me mad enough though. i hardly remember it, but its just meh. i would say C tier. it isn't a big of a shock as Victory of the daleks. please be kind to The Big Bang. its a fun episode with the vortex manipulator and i adore matt smith's performance in it.
Harbo's woken up
I just remember this episode being meh. Pretty forgettable and skippable