Doctor Who's Infamous Rainbow Dalek Episode
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- Опубліковано 3 січ 2025
- It's finally time to review Victory of the Daleks, the divisive Doctor Who Series 5 episode which introduces controversial brightly coloured designs of the iconic villains. Is it a good episode? Well, let's find out.
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#DoctorWho #Series5 #Review
Quality of the episode aside, the dalek asking "would you care for some tea?" is always very funny to me. I'm easily pleased though :p
Not just that but I love that the “I am your soldier” line is literally referencing the second doctor’s “I am your servant” line from power of the daleks
"WoUlD yOu CaRe FoR sOmE tEa??"
Of course
I think Moffat's biggest error with this was just abandoning the story he likely had for the Daleks because people didn't like it.
I think it could of been really interesting especially revamping the daleks a little bit all having specific roles even having their own episodes based on their title. There was so much potential but unfortunately the fans were very outspoken at the time and Moffat canned it. You could bring them back but i think the intrigue is gone
@@Venemofthe888 all we have tbh is the video games and the "only good dalek" graphic novel which does execute them rather well with only scientist, strategist and drones present plus there are flame thrower paradigm daleks in that, the nozzles of the flame arms look like the paradigm eyestalk eyeballs. I actually made a custom of that dalek, the flame from the classic flame thrower dalek fits in perfectly to the reverse end of the eyeball sculpt.
I kind of liked the bodywork of this design, better colours of course and the posture could've been worked on but i wish people would give things a chance
Yeah you go to the effort of setting them up like that they should be a recurring main threat, but it went nowhere beyond establishing they exist again so they can show up in minor roles occasionally
#1 rule of using the internet: Don't let twitter bully you into decisions, especially if you're a freaking professional studio/showrunner. Only those that hate something will speak out, while those that are content will generally stay happy and silent. According to a 2011 poll on their official website, apparently 65% of people were in favor of the new design, but they still went back on it because "overwhelming backlash" and etc that the social media echochambers have the tendency to create.
@@Soulindex yeah, I did get the feeling throughout some of the later seasons that stuff was happening as a direct reaction to negative commentary from fans. Say what you like about Chibnall, at least he's committed to his madness.
The "YOU! ARE! MY! ENEMY!" line gets me everytime. Matt Smith could really deliver the anger in the few moments they went there during his run.
Yeah when I watch Series 5 I'm always taken aback by how furious 11 is, mostly in this and the end of Beast Below. He jumps to outright intimidation and cruelty so much quicker than previous Doctors.
@@disappointedoptimist255 This is one of the reasons why Matt Smith is better than Peter Capaldi. Capaldi spent so much time being a grumpy old asshole that seeing him get angry was just business as usual. When Smith does it, you really feel it because it's such a sharp contrast to his usual demeanour. It's the same with Tennant.
@@tomnorton4277 Yeah they went for a very Rick & Morty approach. Tho it was abandoned & he did change.
I know that Amy not remembering major world events is part of the bedroom crack storyline but I kinda wish for once we got a companion recognising the Daleks because they remember a previous finale, rather than always contriving to preserve the status quo and having humans not know that aliens exist.
The waters of mars had one person remember the daleks, and that was her reason to want to go to space.
Though the episode was not about the daleks.
I've had an idea for a companion for a while where they remember EVERYTHING. Their aunt died in Canary Wharf but their parents can't tell them why, they saw the stars go out and the planets in the sky, they also remember when Churchill was Caesar and there were dinosaurs in the park. But no one believes them. So when they meet the doctor, the only person who believes them, they beg him to let them travel with him and he does.
@@emmiebunny04That's a good idea
I think it's so stupid when there is like sciencets being surprised by alines being real in doctor who
@@emmiebunny04 The former happened in a way with Martha's cousin
Fun fact about the Paradigm Daleks, one reason they were so tall was so that they were the same height as Karen Gillan, whereas the Bronze Daleks were the same height as Billie Piper.
Which is just dumb because Amy never even interacted with them
@@mrdr0161 I guess they planned that she would in future stories before the massive backlash tho
I never hated this. I am just annoyed that the paradigm Daleks were pretty much just erased from the show.
Skittledalekgang
@@stevenhale2935 I had a money box that was the Blue Dalek that I brought at a car boot sale and like it was indestructible. I have a coordination disorder and lived an a house with cats. it looked like cheap plastic (bit like the actual Daleks) but it was robust.
@@lucypreece7581 Oh wow. Well I suppose being racially pure did help them after all.
I'd then have to keep browsing car boots to get all the colours though, that'd be the downside
@@stevenhale2935 yeah like itncoped with a house move and like constantly being knocked off and things thrown at it (i have rage) and being smashed against a radiator or like things falling on top of not even a crack. Even like the eyestalk and stuff stayed in tact. It was near impossible to damage. And yes i sometimes throw shoes at it when i was emotional because 1) it's a dalek and deserves it 2) it wouldn't be damaged and 3) good stress relief
@@lucypreece7581 you jabe rage?
Well, you know... you do you, sounds fun. Poor Paradigm Dalek
I like this episode for one reason, Smith. It's his 3rd episode and the rage he shown to the Daleks and how defeated he looked at the end. It felt like he's been playing this character for years.
This episode for me has always been a 5/10. In the middle of “deeceenntttt, Matt Smith can hold his own” and “ergh.. the cliché power of love saves the day instead of something proper”
I think the power of love is something proper. And most importantly, I like whe. The resolution to a conflict is internal, not external. Internal resolution means character growth and the like.
@@HiperPivociarz yeah it’s ok once lmao but when it’s happening after every 2/3 episodes it gets boring.
Finding something 'taboo' hot is *the* definitive Human experience. Liking something you know you shouldn't, feeling that guilt, everyone does it. It's an experience almost everyone feels, and the plethora of emotions from it is exactly what Bracewell needed. It's proper.
And so, the Eternal Dalek remained eternally mysterious...
I once read a theory, iirc, that the Eternal Dalek's purpose was simply to make sure the Daleks last for eternity.
I'm pissed off still, I wanted the Paradigms to get their own stories! Do not listen to the fans when there is a backlash because you Moffat could've made the Paradigms great, a lot of people have come around to liking them now.
It’s a real same they never got a chance to prove themselves
Make paradigms great again
After the mediocre mess that was Beast Below, this episode was an improvement. I'm pretty much in agreement about most of Harbo's points, though Churchill's characterisation doesn't bother me as the end of the day, this is purely fiction. As for the Smarties Daleks, yeah they're terrible and a bad idea, though I quite like the blue strategist Dalek. As for Amy not remembering the series 4 finale, I have to say, I dislike how Moffat threw away RTD's world building in one dismissive sweep. I think maybe in later episodes it should've been established that Amy's memories of that invasion were restored after the Doctor rebooted the universe in The Big Bang. Next week it's the turn of the mixed bag Weeping Angels two-parter. It's gonna be interesting to see Harbo's views on that. Looking forward to it!
I'm largely in agreement with you there, but I would like to point out that Churchill being so shallowly characterised is kind of a bad thing. You're right; this is fiction, and in an episode with WW2 fighter pilots in space, realism clearly isn't a priority.
But this is a family show, and lots of kids (I happened to be one of them) may never have heard of Churchill before this episode. I was 9 when I first saw this episode, and given I'd never seen or been taught anything to the contrary before then, I assumed Churchill must have been a pretty awesome guy. It took almost 10yrs before I learned that for all he did for the UK during the war, he was an incredibly shitty guy.
TL;DR: The show has no obligation to depict 100% accurate history at all times, but a lot of the kids who watch Dr Who only learn about some of the historical places/people for the first time when they appear in the show. So on that basis, it's a little bit of a questionable decision to make Churchill seem like a rad dude to look up to.
yep
The Time War Daleks look like military equipment to me, even without their Ironside repaint. The Paradigm Daleks look plastic in comparison. They look like they had the same design team as the modern Mini, right down to the selection of body colours.
There's some good stuff there and the later repaint some of them got does help, but they don't work for me. Combined with the fact they apparently forgot to build a set for the spaceship interior and just shot the scene in an empty section of a BBC office building somewhere and that whole bit just falls flat to me.
"Only below Sleep no More and Night Terrors" damn Harbl talk about damning with faint praise
I hate it when people call those Daleks "skittles". Especially when they compare the eternal Dalek (my favourite) to Banana flavoured ones!
Like seriously, Lemon flavoured was right there.
Sour Apple are the best
OMG Harbo Wholmes replied to me!
@scftlcve you're goddamn right! Purple all the way!
I'm a blue raspberry dalek fan myself 😂😂
I actually really like this epsiode it's a clever concept that really only falls apart at the end. It's a shame the paradigm daleks where so poorly received since the idea of daleks with different ranks and functions is a cool concepts.
Also it makes sense that bracewell embracing love makes sense when you consider that he is Dalek technology. Daleks only understand Hate, Fear, and Pain. They would count on Bracewell's "human nature" to be the only mindset he could maintain but because AI is a bit of a crapshoot bracewell was able to develop other emotions it would make sense that an emotion as incomprehensible as love would shut down the dalek tech even if it was a bit of an eye roll moment.
@ Bracewell isn't just a bomb though. He's an android which means his cognitive and mechanical functions are governed by artificial intelligence. He's clearly gained sentience so it would also make logical sense that his AI would want to avoid detonation for the sake of self preservation.
@@SethAurelius94 Not really, he was a robot made by Daleks, so he's all machine just made out of human skin on top and taught to think and act like humans. Unless my memory betrays me the Daleks say they made him and his whole backstory about being a boy was a memory implant like Blade Runner.
But that's just my opinion... even so I think most people agree "the power of love" is lazy, hack writing.
@ Any robot with that much autonomy has AI to some extent. I will agree that it's a stupidly cheesy plot point but it does make sense in context.
@@SethAurelius94 Even with AI that's like saying a self driving car could "decide" to kill you. It might read the road wrong because of dirt obscuring markings or bird shit on the camera lens, but it doesn't suddenly decide to kill you, it still thinks it was driving safely down the road.
That's why I think it is dumb, an AI built to work as a bomb wouldn't be programmed to defuse itself only to activate when told.
@
He had to have a simulation of a human personality convincing enough for even the Doctor to believe it. It seems believable to me that such an extensive simulation can't fail to create an actual will and personality as a side effect.
I agree with what you say about resting the Daleks for a season so it wouldn't take away from Journey's End, but they had no choice, part of the agreement between the Nation estate and the Who team was that, if they wanted to have the Daleks, they HAVE to use them every year
Simply do what they did for series 6 and 10. Have a flashback or something to a dalek. They don't have to have a full story
The opening is actually really good, as you said. I never thought about that before but it definitely has that classic Doctor Who opening kinda feel. Super nostalgic and epic.
it feels like classic bc it’s literally a copy paste of Power of the Daleks
@@william...1 Well tbh when I said 'classic' I meant the RTD era lol.
I feel like the episode has too much hate. No it’s not a good episode, but it’s not bad either. I only thought it was a little bland. The Skittle Daleks are laughable but there are some good character moments.
It’s not the best episode, but I’d argue it’s one of the better Dalek focussed stories of Moffat’s era, since it maintains a lot of the elements they really emphasised in RTD’s era, like their fanatic obsession with genetic purity and the extent of their hatred for anything non Dalek. Hell, the “pure” Daleks executed the survivors from Parting of the Ways for that very reason. I also love the Doctor’s reaction to the Daleks and how they exploited it to manipulate him into doing exactly what they wanted.
The dalek asylum one (y’know the one idk names) was worse in general but it also had sum good moments
@@Cecily_Smith4 That's the episode I was also thinking of. Sure, it's a better episode of the show over all, but a much worse Dalek story. It was so out of character for the Doctor to be so relaxed around his greatest enemies like that. It was ridiculous they'd even reach out to him for help.
It feels like this episode was meant to be in Series 6 or later in 5. Amy Pond seems like she’s already been with the Doctor a while and like you say bringing back the Daleks so soon was weird. There’s a parallel reality where this episode was really good and the Daleks were more threatening and had better designs and a better spaceship which then led to a myriad of great Moffat era Dalek stories 🤔
This episode could be fairly easily swapped with The Lodger I think, but I guess they could resist having the Daleks early on
The RTD era had some great filmmakers who improved with the show. Graeme Harper, James Hawes, Joe Ahearne (Dalek), James Strong (Partners in Crime has a crazy dolly zoom shot), Hettie Macdonald (Blink), Dan Zeff (Love and Monsters), Charlie Palmer (Human Nature), and Euros Lyn.
In Series 5 I think there’s a huge step up in the filmmaking. Adam Smith just does undeniably PHENOMENAL work on the Eleventh Hour and the angels two parter.
However, in Victory of the Daleks and The Beast Below, it’s Andrew Gunn who lights everything quite brightly and seems to have less an eye for composition in these episodes. Not to be insulting to Gunn but for whatever reason- these episodes don’t have the same filmmaking quality as if someone like Graeme Harper (or later in the Moffat era we have the BRILLIANT Rachel Talalay) was working on these two almost great but kinda mid episodes. Maybe Andrew Gunn was rushed for time or something or maybe it was weirdly edited who knows.
@Scom Tott your pfp had me for a second there
"Dalek-brand skittles"
Ooooh, so THAT'S where the 3rd rainbow dalek group from discord writes who went
For someone who would use every chance to beat the Nazis it's kinda weird Churchill forgot he has SPACE SPITFIRES WITH LASER MACHINEGUNS. Unless there was a scene where the Doctor says "Also, I took away your SPACE SPITFIRES WITH LASER MACHINEGUNS" that I missed.
Back in 2016, my mom and I watched a few episodes of this series of Dr. Who. Naturally, I watched this one. I vaguely knew what the Daleks were but I had no idea of the context. Until today I completely forgot about everything in this episode except for one thing: "I AM THE DOCTOR AND YOU ARE THE DALEKS!".
Matt Smith was too good for Morbius.
I just felt like, with the Russell t Davies era he took the daleks from being something people laughed at to this really extravagant scary monster. Everytime the daleks came back (other than Dalek S1) it was a two parter and something big always happened. The finale with the daleks and davros was such a climax and huge. When moffat brought the daleks back, especially with a new design it should have been more vamped up. I felt like he took russel t Davies work with anticipation and the fear factor and made them less scary and impactful again. The storyline had such potential, but it just flopped, the climax of the reveal of the daleks was such a let down and lasted around 5 minutes. For the impact they had it should have had more emphasis and most definitely been a two parter.
Davis: "oooh remember that from 50 years ago, why don't we put it in an episode?"
Moffat: "oooooh remember that from 50 years ago, let's put it in an episode, ooooh remember that too, and that one and that one and that one and that one and that one and that one and that one AND THAT ONE AND THAT ONE AND THAT ONE AND THAT ONE!!!!!!
Chibnall: "remember that from 50 years ago.... it was shit, let's not bother!"
I was thinking last night how this episode is probably the reason why even Chibnall, the guy who retconned nearly 60 years of the show, is too afraid to change the Daleks permanently.
that being said he basically pulled it for cybermen so idk
There was a lone dalek saucer sort of listing to the right of the screen as the fleet was blowing up back in series 4 jorneys end, this apparently was the saucer in victory of the daleks.
man the daleks sure as hell keep their saucers short staffed, they can hold up to 2000 daleks each
It's been 11 years
And I only just now realized that the Dalek ship was supposed to be the same as the series 4 one.
My husbands favourite line from all of Doctor Who is the WW2 Dalek saying "I am your soldier" 😆 He thinks its adorable, and I tend to agree! :3
"Do you want some tea?"
The opening was pretty good but it all went down hill after it became very clear that the entire episode was designed to re-establish the Daleks as a galaxy wide threat and remove the need to explain where they had come from each and every they reappeared. Case in point: Asylum of the Daleks, no explanation forthcoming. The Daleks are just there, because Daleks are an established feature of the universe again.
This is all well and good, but it harms the original episode. It should have been incidental, rather than the central focus. And this is without even mentioning the botched redesign. As Harbo says, it ain’t broke don’t fix it. And the bronze Daleks were a great design. The Ironsides were also a brilliant design. Redesigns are all well and good, but not when the narrative is saying, these are crap, this new one is far superior (especially when they clearly are not.)
I don’t have a problem with how Churchill is portrayed here. It’s always a cookie cutter version of historical figures you see in these sorts of shows. The problem, is that considering this is supposed to be the Winston Churchill, celebrity historical, it barely has anything to do with Winston Churchill. In all other celebrity historicals the celebrity figure is central to the episode, in this one, Churchill is almost a background character. He may as well not be there, his role could have been served by a random General and the episode would have been unchanged.
I actually like the idea of the Paradigm Daleks. I just wish these things were different:
A: The Dalek Supreme actually having a unique design instead of being just white.
B: Having the Darker Metallic that Asylum of the Daleks had for them.
C: If they were fleshed out more in their debut episode with different capabilities compared to their Bronze cousins. That's what made Dalek so great and my personal favorite Dalek story.
D: 9 year old me not despising sudden change.
I think we are why Moffat's Dalek stories are amongst his weakest stories as his time as showrunner. We did this to ourselves people, we didn't allow Moffat to expand his creativity for future Dalek stories to his fullest potential.
There is no way the Daleks in Series IV would’ve known it was the meta crisis Doctor? Yes they would!, the doctor explained in front of the Daleks that it was a meta crisis
My big issue with this is that I don't understand why the older design daleks acknowledge themselves as inferior and resign themselves to death. It makes no sense from a storytelling standpoint since they belonged to Davros's "true" daleks, which were referred to by both Davros and the Supreme Dalek as "the true dalek race", as though to imply that they were the perfected form of dalek and that which came before cannot be considered "true". On the basis of that characterisation, it makes no sense to me that these daleks would have perceived themselves as inferior to those created using "pure dalek DNA", when "pure" daleks would not have been "true" daleks under their own definition. If anything, they should perceive themselves as superior, and the New Paradigm daleks as lesser results of an imperfected design.
Fun Fact: The voice of the Daleks Nick Briggs had to try to stop himself from cracking up from saying some of the lines of the Ironsides such as the line “Would you care for some tea?”
Imagine if the Paradigm Daleks were smaller but ever so slightly slightly bigger than the bronze daleks with design from Asylum Of The Daleks with that chrome-metallic finish with a slightly darker cherry red for the basic default Dalek seen at 11:44 with a black secondary colour covering the rest of the design alongside a chrome-metallic black Dalek with a silver secondary colour for its supreme keeping that uniformity. To top it all off, the eye stalk colour would be a burnt orange giving this dalek a hellish vibe. That alone would have been *SO MUCH BETTER.*
I’m one of the few people who actually likes the paradigm Daleks and prefers them to the time war designs. I like how huge they are, as well as the eye stalk with the black spikes coming out of it, and the orange eye with the long black pupil, which makes them look like a demonic squid. Also, when they appeared again in asylum, they had that shiny, metallic sleek look to them. To me, they’re the only Daleks design that doesn’t look cute in some way.
No matter how meh this episode was as a hole, "its a jammie dodger" will always be my favourite line from doctor who.
"So you have enemies, then?" "Everyone has enemies." "Yeah, but my enemy's the woman who stands outside Budgens with the mental Jack Russell. You have ARCHenemies."
0:08 - If only Chibnall followed that advice...
With what
@@mrdr0161 By not retconning over 50 years of history with Timeless Children.
@@firstnamelastname9794 nothing has been retconned though
@@mrdr0161 It has though, which is one of the biggest reasons why his era can't fit in canon as well as other reasons and contradictions in dialogues, stories and character
@@mrdr0161 The First Doctor is no longer the first one, but number 86 or some such. And if the Doctor has infinite regenerations, then it makes Time of the Doctor completely unnecessary. He was dying of old age on Trenzalore because he had run out of regenerations. The entire episode, and even the whole of the 11th Doctor's seasons led up to this. The Time Lords gave him more regenerations to overcome that limit established in Deadly Assassin. But Timeless Children undid all of that.
I actually love this episode, and I know this one is extra controversial, but I really like the dalek redesign. Yeah they are a bit toyish hit I think they are fun and outlandish whish I think sometimes the daleks need that. I also love the doctors anger towards the daleks in this story.
I really liked the episode as a whole, the main reason being the chemistry between the actors, but the teletubby Dalek design killed the menace of their creation. Loved the military painted ones though. Again, this season showed how brilliant Matt was with the right material.
This episode killed my love for doctor who as a child. I was about 13 and had been with it since 2005, I adored the show. When the playmobile Daleks rolled out of that door I was furious. They looked stupid, disrespected the previous finale, and looked like they were just there to sell toys. I didn't tune in again until the end of Capaldi's run. As an adult I see what Moffat was trying to do... but it's still so incredibly cheap.
I actually love the New Paradigm Daleks, technicolor and all. I wish they'd been giving more time to breathe and flesh themselves out, _especially_ the Eternal, since we still don't know for sure what that one even _does_. I think this story would've worked a lot better in Series 7, maybe even as a Clara episode.
5:44 Except there’s only been “one” Orange Ranger. His name is Boom and you don’t know him
Uhh my guy, SPD is the shit, of course I know Boom
@@HarboWholmes Okay, I was not expecting that. What are the odds!?
This was a decent episode, and a decent dalek episode, but it was let down by every dalek episode that followed it, making it feel out of place and forgotten about.
I've never hated the paradigm daleks; I'm fairly certain if they had been painted more metallic from the getgo, they wouldn't have been NEARLY as hated! That being said, I don't think they should've completely replaced the bronze daleks, but instead should've been officers. Or even better: there should've been a new civil war story featuring a conflict between the old daleks and the new! The new daleks could be greatly outnumbered by dozens, but individually would've been far more powerful than standard daleks, similar to the cult of skaro fighting the cybermen! It practically writes itself!
Sorry for keeping commenting but I wanted to say I love Bracewell. The Daleks creating an android that thinks it’s human is so cool. It’s like an added dash of Blade Runner, they should expand on this idea in the future of Doctor Who.
I think that's the aspect of the episode that stood out more, at least in my opinion.
@@user-is7xs1mr9y The Daleks create robot humans in the fifth Doctor story.
@@mayotango1317 cool I’ll have to watch that one at some point, is it good?
@@FabianEllis ua-cam.com/video/B9NttGB9oOw/v-deo.html
I remember being terrified of Series 5’s weeping angels episode, so for some god forsaken reason, I kept continuously watching this episode. I’m glad I grew up with doctor who.
IMAGINE if the rejected 1996 "Spider-Daleks" seen at 12:19 were brought back as "drones that were used in the time war?"
I mean we've seen Dalek Drones in Day Of The Doctor so maybe those are dispersed from these>?
The Doctor and the Brigadier had quite a few differences over things too, but the Doctor saw beyond those... plus the Doctor may have thought he could 'nudge' Winston in certain areas...
Thumbnail: ‘The Worst Dalek Story?’
Me: Have you seen ‘The Magician’s Apprentice/The Witch’s Familiar?
That at least has 12, Clara and Missy in it sooo
Why those are bad?
@@HarboWholmes Yeah but so does Death in Heaven... Doesn't help
Magician's Apprentice is not great but in hindsight I see how it ended up the way it did. Witches Familiar is actually really good. Settles the Doctor and Davros debate in a way that feels right for both characters.
Don’t forget Asylum and Destiny
I have to say, the inference to the Doctor's relationship with Churchill seems to be based on what ideas they are against, not what they agree on. From memory, there is dialogue to this effect.
The Doctor wouldn't be on such good terms with the likes of Churchill - I haven't seen classic who but nothing from the new show suggests that the doctor would even humour someone like Churchill.
11:07 It wasn't "You're a dalek!" that activated the device, it was "I am The Doctor!".
I legit loved the new designs and hate that they never really got used.
“They all died”
Flashback to ten saying that
I really liked the creepy, scary "Are you my mummy?" episode and the twist ending. -- But this ep, with Churchill et al., was OK, if not great. -- The bright, cheerful color Daleks didn't make sense. Oh, a few colors, maybe as automotive or militaristic in color scheme, might have made sense, but we never really got an explanation o why we suddenly had candy-colored or Apple store Daleks. :shrugs: I would expect job function or training / intelligence level...some reason. -- Churchill's portrayal, I don't know. I could believe he'd go for tanks or robots, but I think he would have distrusted an "invention" like the Daleks (posing as an invention by Earth scientists, that is). He was apparently a very sharp man, a good judge of character.
He had not problem with the mustard gas.
I like the idea of the daleks having castes/roles. It gives the daleks a sense of culture.
"Worst Dalek story?" Not now the Chibnall Dalek stories exist. Hartnell met famous faces from history years before RTD's 2005.
Revival.
Any dalek story is better than this
Exactly
Man I just couldn't with the planes in space. When I saw that happen I went back like 5 times to make sure I didn't miss some important detail explaining how the doctor and professor that possible in such a short period of time. There was no good explanation, and it was dumb. It was even dumber when the pilot came back in the series finale to help.
I wouldn't say Churchill talking about weaponizing the Tardis is "war mongering", he was a patriot and a wartime leader, he had the entire safety of the free world on his shoulders and needed every advantage, the ability to end the war is one thing but the power to prevent it in the first place would be a better option to someone in his position.
Surely warmongering would be to continue the war, not go back in time to make sure it never happened?
Revisionist historians of WW2 like to convey the idea that Churchill was a warmonger, seeking it for personal glory and an attempt to return to the front of politics after years in the wilderness.
@mandy moo Democratically elected after Chamberlin was deemed unfit for power, and yes free world since Britain was at the forefront of counteracting Nazi Germany for the first half of the war.
Man, if there's this much drama over the show's portrayal of Churchill, just wait until next season when the gang meet a certain historical figure whom Churchill rather famously didn't get on with...
I remember when I first watched this episode with my dad and he was going on about how they ruined the Daleks and I didn't get it, but then I watched the reboot from the beginning and I realised what he meant. The 'you are my enemy' scene was amazing, and the idea of daleks infiltrating the British military was fascinating but yeah they shouldn't have gone rainbow mode...
First third of this is really good. A nice twist on the Power of the Daleks playbook.
It loses something when the Daleks have revealed themselves and then it gets worse and worse. Yes the paradigm Daleks aren't good but when the episode ends with them yelling "we will RETURN!" like saturday morning cartoon villains I don't think a less colourful design would have fixed everything.
And I have no idea what the resolution was going for. It would have been better if the Doctor's speech had been the one to fix Bracewell- yes humanity being restored via embracing their pain is a bit emo but it at least relates to the rest of the episode (war, the pain the Daleks have caused for the Dr and Bracewell).
Ugh, let's talk about Churchill. I'll try to steer clear of casting judgement on the man himself, and stick with his portrayal in popular culture in general, and in this episode specifically.
Yes, it is true that Churchill was not a simple man, he was a man capable of both good and evil and he demonstrates this throughout his long political career. However, whether you drink the Churchillian Kool-Aid or not, everyone in Britain is at least aware of the mythologised version of Churchill - the man who saved Britain in its darkest hour. That's the reason he's stuck in the popular imagination for so long. (Indeed, without that popular image there wouldn't be an anti-Churchill backlash either, just as nobody talks incessantly about the crimes of, say, Herbert Asquith.)
Now, it must be asked, what is Winston Churchill's role in this story? Well, it's to be the Churchill of national myth, the one who will do anything to defeat the Naz*s. (Apologies for the self-censoring, don't want to trigger YT's moderation algorithms.) That characterisation is what drives the narrative of him forming an alliance with the Daleks etc. That's the Churchill that *most* British people imagine, and it's the one we're presented with here.
Now, should *every* media depiction of Churchill be like this? No, there is definitely room for a less rose-tinited appraisal of a flawed individual in pop-culture depictions. But I think those sort of depictions are best left for works which are explicitly about Churchill. If you want to do a proper warts-and-all analysis, that would have to be the main focus of your work. It would be clumsy indeed for such a focus to be secondary to the main story of a time-travelling wizard bashing up some homicidal pepperpots.
More broadly, I do think media leans too heavily on the sainted Churchill of national myth, rather than actual human who existed. But I don't think Doctor Who is the best place to tackle that imbalance, at least not directly. However...
...what science fiction is very good at is using alien species to act as allegory for human societies. With regards to the accusation most commonly levelled at Churchill, we arguably already have such a species in Doctor Who. In my mind the Sontarans are very clearly a take on British colonialism - the conquering of other worlds "just for fun", the viewing of all other races as inferior, and above all the Queen's English accents make this obvious to me, at least. (Even their skin colour is reminiscent of white men tanned by tropical weather.) And while not an alien species, Torchwood One had even less subtle parallels to the British Empire.
And I think that within the confines of the show, these are better vehicles for seriously examining colonialism than shoehorning such a message into a story where Churchill appears only in a supporting role.
Something random i just thought of watching this directly after season 4: in journeys end tennant banishes the meta crisis doctor for genociding the daleks. And then in the first dalek story of smith he essentially tries to do the same and the only reason he doesn’t is because bracewell is a bomb.
I always thought the pitch for this episode was spitfires in space.
I love how one of doctor who’s most controversial moves was making neon dalek’s. Takes the sting away from the rampant sexism and conservatism that is rife within the fandom right now.
Yeah the simpler days where monster design and some writing quirks were our biggest problem.
I mean before this we had Freema Agyeman recieving racial abuse from the fandom and complaints about Russell T Davies' "Women's agenda"
@@Ben-vf5gk His what?!
Also I did recently read about Freema’s abuse. Sucks too, I really liked Martha.
@@Ben-vf5gk what the hell is a Women’s agenda?
Also the racist stuff was so out of line. Martha is a such a fantastic companion. The sad thing is I wanna say society has evolved since then, but obviously the reaction to Bill as a companion didn’t do much to make me feel better.
I guess I’m in the minority but I really like the huge bright coloured Daleks, apart from the colours which seems to be the only problem have with them, there’s nothing wrong with them, another reason there’s nothing wrong with them is people forget Doctor Who is a kids show
These new Daleks made me think of an explosion in a Smarties factory
Lots of good things to note in this review of yours Harb, very forgiving of this one unlike the majority of reviewers I see.
when i rewatched the whole series i thought amy not recognizing the daleks was really clever and served the story arc so well...until bill had to get the standard dalek rundown, and i realized that they just didn't have a new excuse to re-explain daleks after amy
This episode was poor - other than 11 being angry at the daleks. Smith's performance is good and in that moment he felt like the 9th doctor, actually being angry and bitter at the space fascists that killed so many of his people. I missed the doctor being angry and resentful to the daleks during 10's tenure. 10's ultra moralising passivism got old and the doctor's dynamic with the daleks works best for me when he's angry at them. This is why the daleks in s1 work so well. Good characterisation here, but poor executing. Plus I hate Churchill in this episode and as a figure.
So two points. 1, the reason they couldn’t be rested is because the Terry Nation estate had a stipulation that for the BBC to have daleks, they must be shown at least once per year, even in the smallest capacity (eg wedding of river song) it’s why Jodie’s era had the New Year’s Eve dalek trilogy, because Chib didn’t want them used in the series but the BBC had to use them once a year. 2, the reason the powerpuff daleks look so ridiculous is because the top half was designed in centimetres and the bottom half was designed in inches. And they didn’t have time/money to correct the error
lol almost forgot about the pride daleks
I've always had a soft spot for this episode. As an American, I didnt know churchill well enough to be angry the first time I watched the episode. The second half is a bit weak but everything set in world war 2 is wildly fun
Loved the "Ironsides" - fantastic redesign, the multicoloured paradigm overweight daleks - yeaah, not so much.
Hot take but I like the paradigm dalek design, really sad they faded into the background and just vanished
No. That would be that abomination called, “Asylum of the Daleks”.
Also I really loved the Paradigm Daleks. They remind me of the ones from those Peter Cushing movies.
Although I didn’t know they were intended to replace the standard bronze ones, I thought they were just going to be high ranking Daleks. Which they said they were going to do after the backlash but they never did anything with that. They appeared in “Asylum of the Daleks” (a horribly written mess) and then never appeared again. Apparently they along with the Parliament was destroyed in “The Time of the Doctor”.
They looked way better when they appeared in Asylum of the Daleks. Definitely shouldn't have just abandoned these designs but improved them over time
I’d love to see an episode where The Doctor goes back and meets Alan Turing.
Turing was the influence behind Dr Judson in Curse of Fenric. I think he may yet turn up in RTD's second era.
"Early Learning Centre Daleks for ages 3 and up" 😂
I think the darker, more metallic recolour that appeared on later paradigm Daleks would have been better. Especially on the 2005 props if they were recolours of the sensor globes. Maybe not as many versions and other progenitors could contain different types, leading to an subplot for the Daleks where they search for the other variants.
The matte paint makes them look like they're made out of plastic, they look cheap. I agree with Harbo, they should have been metallic.
I think the pushback against the paradigm Daleks comes from a place that due to only the supreme dalek being shown in the trailer the expectation was that we would have modern imperial Daleks from McCoy's era, I remember back in 2010 that rumor was EEEEEEEEEEVERYWHERE and the theory that we were getting a Remembrance Of The Daleks part 2 with the "new Imperial" Daleks vs the RTD era ones
This episode is so disappointing based on how close it is to being incredible. I feel that the dalek redesign actually looks alright if you get rid of the colour schemes, but it also doesnt really work as a design for every dalek. I feel it would have worked better if this design was basically a replacement for the supreme dalek design, and then regular daleks were just a recoloured time war design or something.
Also in terms of the chest bomb, i feel your criticisms of this could have been fixed if what had happened was Amy was left alone to deal with the bomb while the doctor was trying to take down the daleks. Have these scenes take place alongside the doctor talking to the paradigm daleks. Then it also acts more as a scene of amy proving her value to the doctor after the messy ending of beat below.
Since i was s child when this came out and i just saw the big colourful daleks as apart of the daleks. Like they stood out and I just assumed that was the point. But basically I just don’t blink an eye when they appear
12:42 I guess the Slitheen got destroyed in that genocidal incident too
I saw the two movies in the cinema and loved seeing Daleks in colour. I later enjoyed seeing the Supreme, Emperor, and other Daleks in different liveries.
The New Paradigm, however, were garish. The colours too bright, it was like the Daleks mated with the Teletubbies and moved to Ballymorey.
Subtlety went out of the window.
Then again, the Daleks have no concept of elegance
Every time someone mentions the Paradigm Daleks, I’ve gotta mention that I like them.
I quite like the Paradigm design, but yes they need to keep the Metalic look if we do ever see them again
Who makes the metal shells the Daleks live in 🤔
Ayy, a review that gives this episode some props. It's not the best episode in the world, but I'd definitely say it's middle of the road, 5/10. Not the piece of poop some claim it to be; the power of love ending sucks though and I think Matt Smith shines, though I don't think his Dalek outburst is the best example for his best acting.
Ironically, that's the only time he actually acted the way he should with Daleks
Why do you claim that Churchill's beliefs go against the majority of Doctor Who fans? Doctor Who is watched by more people than just edgy liberals. And why do you feel that Doctor Who is the proper show for deconstructing a politician like that anyway? Why can't you just enjoy him as that postcard, a British icon, the national hero who led the country against Nazism? I'm sorry, but I think these complaints are wildly misplaced for what is a family show.
I'm pretty torn on this episode. I love the ironside, WW2 part of the episode but the paradigm daleks are pretty blah. perhaps they could've redeemed themselves with another episode starring them or perhaps this episode should've been a 2 parter but I guess it wasn't meant to be.
Speaking as someone who knew nothing about Doctor Who and was just introduced to anything about it in the Matt Smiths era. I loved this episode and still do. I actually liked the paradigm Daleks since they looked unique compared to the bronze and WW2 Daleks. Based on the Doctors anger I knew these foes were not something to mess around with.
Spitfires in Space is 1 of the top 11.38 Doctor Who moments.
Doctor: "I am the Doctor. You are the Daleks! And This, IS, SPARTA" *Kicks*
Dalek: "Correct! Contact mother ship! Broadcast testimony!"
Mothership: "Testomony rejected!"
Dalek: "WHAT?"
Mothership: "Any asshole can claim to be the Doctor. Testimony requires 3 forms of Identification and a secondary email! Continue spying!"
Dalek: *Looks at the Doctor. Looks at Churchill* "I was just joking. I am not a Dalek. Would you like some tea?"
Also. Why would Daleks need purity to make more Daleks?
If I woke them as a human, wouldn't they show up and kill me? What's to lose?
Impure Dlakes are refused, but the word of a stranger is accepted?
I actually wrote one of my uni essays about how Churchill has more in common with davros than the doctor, and what the doctors friendship with him says about Britain's willingness to memorialise Churchill positively
The Paradigm Daleks were a great idea, and perfect for selling toys to kids. It's one of the worst examples of 'fan' gatekeeping that Paradigm Daleks were basically never seen again.
The colour Daleks remind me of the coloured shirt rankings in Star Trek
I had that poster, too. Had to leave it behind when moving flats. Seems it's not in production anymore.
This coming after stolen earth was an insult.
This idea just came to me, but:
What if we revisit the entire "Human becoming monsters of the week" and have some alternate universe or Human colony deciding to transfer themselves into domed creations, looking almost like the Daleks. Sure, it's basically been done before, but seeing the Doctor conflicted due to the merging of the species they love most and the specie they despise above all else would be REALLY interesting.
The Master did that in Series 3 with the Tocclafane.
@@mayotango1317 Were the future Humans from that given development, a show of the perspective of fear, and then The Doctor would always stand against the Daleks, but in series three the Doctor just sat around.
I just rewatched this episode today, I think the episode is quite interesting before they're revealed as true Daleks, which is only about 15m of screentime.