Excellent! And at the end there you say this wasn’t scientific, but as a PhD student, I’d say this was scientific. You had a blind hypothesis (not knowing what to expect). You had a method (all pieces were painted and cured at the same time, and run through the machine at the same time). You had steps in your method. You had a control piece, and an experiment group. You produced a set of results. You had a conclusion. That sir, is science. Excellent!
Great video. No unnecessary elevator music, barking dogs or air compressor tools making noise. This was a well thought out test and comparison. Well done.
Thank you for this video. I've done some similar comparisons of primers as part of a motorcycle restoration project, although I didn't use a tumbler. While not a rattle-can, I settled on Eastwood's Epoxy Primer. It's Isocyanate-free, lays down smooth, gets great adhesion, and is incredibly hard. Sanding out a run is a real chore. I use a small Iwata HVLP gun. The same primer can can be used as a primer-sealer when cut with more reducer (after body work or using a polyester sanding primer). Thank you again!
Thank you!!! I must have watched this when deciding on primer for an aluminum threshold. The black top coat has held up amazingly but I didn't remember which of the numerous brands I have on hand that I used. I came across this obscure ACE Primer in my arsenal and thought I remembered it out shining many others. Checked and sure enough it was your amazing test that convinced me. Now I can prime and paint 2 more French Door thresholds with confidence.
Excellent video and well done with good presentation on the results. I thought an hour in the deburirng machine would have removed the primer on all of the samples and the test would have been inconclusive - boy, was I wrong. Based on your results, I'm going for the ACE Primer - Thanks again! Unfortunately, I have no value-able input on what causes the dark patina.
Good thing we have ace hardware stores here in the Phils. Great comparison. Thanks so much! Gotta do diy paint job for our aluminum windows since they were just recycled/reused and fitted to our new house 😁
FWIW. My understanding is that bare untreated aluminium needs to have an etch primer applied lightly before applying a top coat of epoxy and allowing the epoxy to cure for 7 days. The etch primer has an acid in it that causes the aluminium to have a micro-rough surface which allows the expoxy to grip the surface.
Thanks for this nice, thorough comparison! I'm painting some extruded aluminum handles for my kitchen cabinets. I'm priming them with the Rustoleum self-etching primer, then with their appliance epoxy black paint. I don't expect them to see nearly the abuse that the vibratory cleaner inflicted on your test subjects, so hopefully they'll last for a long time.
Dang, I wish there was a can of VHT's etching primer in this video lol. Priceless info, and no fluff. Awesome video man, I just can't believe how much better the Ace store brand did than the rest.
My understanding on paint is that any enamel that contains ammonia creates a chemical reaction between the paint and the aluminum substrate that prevents proper adhesion. I've had very good luck with aluminum prepped with a 80-100 grit sandblaster and etching primer.
The reason the parts turn black is explained in two ways. To understand that, one needs to remember that aluminum "rusts" like iron, just not continuously. The Oxygen layer that forms creates a hard, clear, protective barrier. That Aluminum Oxide barrier prevents paint from sticking (hence etching). The 2 things that cause color in aluminum (especially black) are this: acids, detergents, etc., causing pores changes and thickness of the oxidizing layer (which can become greater in surface area due to pitting or scratching). Aluminim forms a hexagonal cell-like layer with a pore in the middle. Pore distance affects refraction. Here's a tech article portion on the process: "Different colors can be explained by different degrees of reflection and absortption of sunlight components by oxide films and the aluminum surface. White light has different components which can create a spectrum of colors either naturally (rainbow) or in a laboratory with the help of diffraction or dispersion. If the oxide film does not absorb any component of light and all components are evenly reflected by the aluminum surface then the film looks colorless (white). If oxide film absorbs all components of light without discrimination then the film looks black. If a specific component of light is absorbed better than others, then the combination of reflected components without the absorbed one will create a non-white color."
Great video. Just what I needed for an aluminum painting project. I'd have to agree. My thought is that something in the detergent caused, helped or aided in the "gray patina" you were asking about.
Great video, I came across a product called POR 15 and I got it as a kit that came with a degreaser and acid for etching and the metal first then you washer it off and use the POR 15 which turns into a ceramic like coating. Its the best I've ever use.
Well it looks like the pores the media release “gunk” plus the tank walls are causing the issue. As you continue to tumble the part is creates a ruff surface that allowed the paint to adhere better. A light acidic solution could remove the “patina”.The only other solution would be to Anodizing -it protects them for saline corrosion agents as well as abrasion. Additionally, they can be tinted in many different colours to suit your application.
Thanks for this video. It's very helpful. I have used a different primer on other metals like black iron pipe with great results. I have yet to try it on aluminum. I wonder how it would hold up. It's the Rust-Oleum Stops Rust Universal Bonding Primer, White.
Love the video! I would love if you could expand on this idea with other primers and different tests. Primers such as the 2k Epoxy primers in a can, Zinc Chromate primer, Zinc phosphate primer, and the other hard-hitters. And then do corrosion tests, scratch tests. And to expand on the etching of aluminum process, like vinegar to BONDERITE. Just stuff I haven't seen in any other youtube video. Thanks!
Big thumbs up for this! I am curious if the results would be the same if each piece was put in separately for only about 20-30 mins at a time. I’m thinking the only difference might be in the products that lost 50% or less in this test. The other products would probably be about equal results. Either way, thanks a ton for sharing your experiments!
From my days of machining aluminium, it gives off back kind of dusty color, especially when wet. I think that in the tumbler it is alu oxide that is being produced.
Great content ! For Rustoleum, their specific Aluminum Primer might’ve been of more interest than the Rustoleum 2x Ultra Cover tested. Big Surprise on the Ace Rust Stop. Thanks for the Test !
You acknowledge knowing about other ways to treat aluminum so I'm not trying to critique or criticize(to much of that on here) just share knowledge. I'm a machinist Mate in the Navy, been stationed on various ships over the last 15 years in engineering. Lots of experience with paint coatings and corrosion of various aluminums and steels. I'm always looking and seeing what works compaired to theory and instruction. The best coating I've seen so far is type 3 anodizing, i.e. sailing winch drums. Two fishing reel manufacturers used it that I know of, Duel(very high end, subsidiary of a racing winch manufacturer, no longer in business) and old generation daiwa sealine(from the 80s). I have a bunch of daiwas that lived for years in rod holders in constant salt spray that still have intact coatings. As long as the coating isnt broken allowing electrical current to pass and create galvanic corrosion it will last a lifetime. Simple way to test is use a multimeter on ohms, you want an open circuit between the alloy and all fasteners and mated materials. Short of anodizing, any dissimilar metals used as fasteners should be insulated, nylon washers from ace, nylon sleeves are good choices, I use them on fasteners for alloy trailers to prevent the white death. For blind holes, countersunk machine screws, etc tefgel is the best product available in the u.s. I've seen, just be aware it acts like a thread lubricant and isnt tolerant of high heat. For regular painting of aluminum, it's like any thing. 90% time is spent in prep. This prep is de oxidize, de smut, etch and prime. Bonderite 33 first, triple rinse distilled(!!!) Water, alodine 1001, triple rinse distilled(!!!) Then prime, 2 part epoxy primer(lots of choices, many the same) then a 2 part polyurethane. I have left out the safety concerns (chromic acid, polyurethane hazards) because if you get this far you should be looking at that as well. Use appropriate gear and common sense... I bring all this up because if your aluminum is exposed to coolant for metal work it will be subject to galvanic corrosion, not as bad as warm saltwater but if you use that system it will last! For an easier at home setup I've had luck (application method depends on size) with sanding 80 grit(I love my festool rotax) distilled water in a Garden sprayer to rinse, phosphoric acid to etch and SEM primer or better go with epoxy. Where did you get the ram for your down feed on the power saw? P/N Model?? If you could answer. Anyhow, great work! This is why I love youtube. To many people worry overly about production/editing for catchy videos and views. I'm looking for information/knowledge/examples for my own use. Thanks for taking the time to make the video!
so used a wire wheel to knock off the paint on an aluminum boat was that a NO NO? gonna prime and paint most of it. Does 80 grit come out smooth on the paint job?
Thanks for this video! If you ever decide to do a second round, please consider including: Moeller ‘Zinc Primer’ which is specifically designated for Aluminum. Also, Rustoleum apparently has an Aluminum primer now.
Thanks, I wish I saw this before today. Just used Dynaseal to coat the inside of my aluminum hitch toolbox to keep my tools from getting aluminum all over them. I already had the dynaseal, so sanded with 220 and laid it on. If it doesn't stay ill try the ACE. 👍
I worked in automotive making aluminum crash management parts, some of those were coated or plated, for certain they have to "key" the surface so that the plating sticks. I am curious if this translates to paints as well, like the "patina" version here has some characteristics of "keying" to help the paint stick to the surface.
An ok test for a home shop. I've got to wonder though how much of these get vibrated to the bottom because they are heavier than the media and thus would not get as much abrasion on one side which could / would skew the final results. PS..love the SawCyl.. I have that bandsaw and use it a lot so Id like to get one soon.
I was brought up priming alum with zinc oxide or chromide. The other day i was told never to use those on aluminum as it is acidic and will corrode the metal. Ive done airplane parts with it for decades. Ive got the same cardboard work bench cover. Ill be interested to see the follow up video in a couple of years to see which primers and paints hold
I'm killing myself trying to get paint to stick to some aluminum frame channels. I tried sanding, SE primers, different paints and there is always a spot somewhere peeling off. I'm heading down to Ace tomorrow morning. Thanks.
@@fady904 Window frames I used the Dulux Metalshield etch primer that is anti-corrosion and the Dulux dura max high performance enamel which is drip free/ 2 coats dries in 30 mins - professional factory results. don't forget 120 or higher before priming and wash with acetone to clean clean clean before starting.
Excellent! And at the end there you say this wasn’t scientific, but as a PhD student, I’d say this was scientific. You had a blind hypothesis (not knowing what to expect). You had a method (all pieces were painted and cured at the same time, and run through the machine at the same time). You had steps in your method. You had a control piece, and an experiment group. You produced a set of results. You had a conclusion. That sir, is science. Excellent!
Thumbs up for no music, no filler bs.
Absolutely 1000% thumbs up for no music!!!!!!
Great video. No unnecessary elevator music, barking dogs or air compressor tools making noise. This was a well thought out test and comparison. Well done.
There was a crying dog near the beginning.
Thanks for doing this test! You have contributed to the DIY body of knowledge and we all owe you a big thanks for this!
this video is freaking pricless.... seriously god bless this man
All great info. no music, no bullshit. 10/10 mate.
Nice job. I'm starting a project that requires painting some aluminum and you've helped me a lot in terms of selecting a paint, thanks!
Thank you for this video. I've done some similar comparisons of primers as part of a motorcycle restoration project, although I didn't use a tumbler. While not a rattle-can, I settled on Eastwood's Epoxy Primer. It's Isocyanate-free, lays down smooth, gets great adhesion, and is incredibly hard. Sanding out a run is a real chore. I use a small Iwata HVLP gun. The same primer can can be used as a primer-sealer when cut with more reducer (after body work or using a polyester sanding primer). Thank you again!
Andy, thank you so much for making this video! I’ve had great luck with Ace Paint and glad to know the primer preformed they best.
Thank you!!! I must have watched this when deciding on primer for an aluminum threshold. The black top coat has held up amazingly but I didn't remember which of the numerous brands I have on hand that I used. I came across this obscure ACE Primer in my arsenal and thought I remembered it out shining many others. Checked and sure enough it was your amazing test that convinced me. Now I can prime and paint 2 more French Door thresholds with confidence.
Thank you for posting this video sir. You just saved me quite a bit of time and money with this primer research and testing.!!
Great job. Excellent analysis. Surprising outcome. Thanks for the helpful vid.
Andy, very helpful and informative and elegant in its simplicity. Thanks
Thank you for making this video. Its simple to the point and your open to others input. These are the videos that I like to see.
Excellent video and well done with good presentation on the results. I thought an hour in the deburirng machine would have removed the primer on all of the samples and the test would have been inconclusive - boy, was I wrong. Based on your results, I'm going for the ACE Primer - Thanks again!
Unfortunately, I have no value-able input on what causes the dark patina.
very nice work this is the kind of thing that is hard to do, your work is appreciated.
Good thing we have ace hardware stores here in the Phils. Great comparison. Thanks so much! Gotta do diy paint job for our aluminum windows since they were just recycled/reused and fitted to our new house 😁
Thanks for your test as its the first in my education about the painting of aluminum. Impressive I'd say.
Nice experiment. Good Job! Thanks for this.
Learning to paint textured aluminum handles for a knife 🗡️ a small project but I appreciate you posting this. Now I know how to do this the right way
FWIW. My understanding is that bare untreated aluminium needs to have an etch primer applied lightly before applying a top coat of epoxy and allowing the epoxy to cure for 7 days. The etch primer has an acid in it that causes the aluminium to have a micro-rough surface which allows the expoxy to grip the surface.
Thanks for a great video and a great test! Exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks for this nice, thorough comparison!
I'm painting some extruded aluminum handles for my kitchen cabinets. I'm priming them with the Rustoleum self-etching primer, then with their appliance epoxy black paint. I don't expect them to see nearly the abuse that the vibratory cleaner inflicted on your test subjects, so hopefully they'll last for a long time.
Incredibly valuable. Thanks for this research.
Thanks so much for taking 6the time for this test and posting the video. Exactly what I needed, thank you!
I came here to learn. And I did. Thank you. Have been using the Rust Oleum self etching. And now I know for sure it is not worth carrying home.
Thank you for doing this comparison!
Thanks, Great video, best true life test I have seen. I will be showing this to my class.
Great video sir, thank you for your time & effort.
Dang, I wish there was a can of VHT's etching primer in this video lol. Priceless info, and no fluff. Awesome video man, I just can't believe how much better the Ace store brand did than the rest.
great video, I use the rustoleum for the self etching , and its a bit of high building as well
I love all of Ace spray paints, thanks for taking the time to make this video!
Excellent work, thank you for sharing 👏
My understanding on paint is that any enamel that contains ammonia creates a chemical reaction between the paint and the aluminum substrate that prevents proper adhesion. I've had very good luck with aluminum prepped with a 80-100 grit sandblaster and etching primer.
Wow, that was a great video. You’ve just helped me to chose primer.
Awesome. I've got my answer on painting my aluminum rims.
Very helpful , keep them coming , thanks from Mike miami
Bingo! Perfect! Exactly what I needed to know.
Thanks for the well done test. Headed to Ace tomorrow.
The reason the parts turn black is explained in two ways. To understand that, one needs to remember that aluminum "rusts" like iron, just not continuously. The Oxygen layer that forms creates a hard, clear, protective barrier. That Aluminum Oxide barrier prevents paint from sticking (hence etching). The 2 things that cause color in aluminum (especially black) are this: acids, detergents, etc., causing pores changes and thickness of the oxidizing layer (which can become greater in surface area due to pitting or scratching). Aluminim forms a hexagonal cell-like layer with a pore in the middle. Pore distance affects refraction.
Here's a tech article portion on the process:
"Different colors can be explained by different degrees of reflection and absortption of sunlight components by oxide films and the aluminum surface. White light has different components which can create a spectrum of colors either naturally (rainbow) or in a laboratory with the help of diffraction or dispersion. If the oxide film does not absorb any component of light and all components are evenly reflected by the aluminum surface then the film looks colorless (white). If oxide film absorbs all components of light without discrimination then the film looks black. If a specific component of light is absorbed better than others, then the combination of reflected components without the absorbed one will create a non-white color."
Great video. Just what I needed for an aluminum painting project. I'd have to agree. My thought is that something in the detergent caused, helped or aided in the "gray patina" you were asking about.
Thank you! I noticed his best choice was a "rust stop" primer
Is this now a toxic surface?
Is there products and procedure to refinish aluminum panel that has small corrosion spots on otherwise clean panel you could suggest
Well done Thanks for Sharing👍👍
Wow! Great video!
Thanks this great heads up info. Keep it up and take care mate! I am so finding a solution for aluminium
Thanks. I found two cans in my garage and was curious if they would work on rust spots on a truck. Good information.
Thank you so much for your experiment.
Great video, I came across a product called POR 15 and I got it as a kit that came with a degreaser and acid for etching and the metal first then you washer it off and use the POR 15 which turns into a ceramic like coating. Its the best I've ever use.
Correct, the POR, is Pour Over Rust.
Great for car frames and trailers.
Thanks for a educational experience... 👍
Well it looks like the pores the media release “gunk” plus the tank walls are causing the issue. As you continue to tumble the part is creates a ruff surface that allowed the paint to adhere better. A light acidic solution could remove the “patina”.The only other solution would be to Anodizing -it protects them for saline corrosion agents as well as abrasion. Additionally, they can be tinted in many different colours to suit your application.
Thanks for this video. It's very helpful. I have used a different primer on other metals like black iron pipe with great results. I have yet to try it on aluminum. I wonder how it would hold up. It's the Rust-Oleum Stops Rust Universal Bonding Primer, White.
To the point. Thanks for taking the time to create the video and sharing it. May The Almighty continue Blessing your human touch.
Dude! you are a love! thanx now i know what to buy.
You are a dying breed my friend thank you so much!
He looks very much alive to me.
This is very helpful. Thank you.
Very informative! Thank you!
Love the video! I would love if you could expand on this idea with other primers and different tests. Primers such as the 2k Epoxy primers in a can, Zinc Chromate primer, Zinc phosphate primer, and the other hard-hitters. And then do corrosion tests, scratch tests. And to expand on the etching of aluminum process, like vinegar to BONDERITE. Just stuff I haven't seen in any other youtube video. Thanks!
OK. 🤣
Big thumbs up for this! I am curious if the results would be the same if each piece was put in separately for only about 20-30 mins at a time. I’m thinking the only difference might be in the products that lost 50% or less in this test. The other products would probably be about equal results. Either way, thanks a ton for sharing your experiments!
Wonderful video!!
From my days of machining aluminium, it gives off back kind of dusty color, especially when wet. I think that in the tumbler it is alu oxide that is being produced.
You did a great job! Nice video!
I appreciate your time and experiment. I am planning a DIY project and your results helped me make a informed decision..
Thank you! Very informative video.
Thanks for the comparison. I need to paint some aluminum motorcycle parts tomorrow so may just go with the ACE primer.
Great information. I need to paint my out door aluminum window frames. I think they were factory painted white. Not sure what method was used.
Great content ! For Rustoleum, their specific Aluminum Primer might’ve been of more interest than the Rustoleum 2x Ultra Cover tested. Big Surprise on the Ace Rust Stop.
Thanks for the Test !
Thanks for the great video!
Thank you so much this was exactly what I was looking for
Thank you for answering what I needed to know. God bless
Thank you for the video, it is very helpful
You acknowledge knowing about other ways to treat aluminum so I'm not trying to critique or criticize(to much of that on here) just share knowledge. I'm a machinist Mate in the Navy, been stationed on various ships over the last 15 years in engineering. Lots of experience with paint coatings and corrosion of various aluminums and steels. I'm always looking and seeing what works compaired to theory and instruction. The best coating I've seen so far is type 3 anodizing, i.e. sailing winch drums. Two fishing reel manufacturers used it that I know of, Duel(very high end, subsidiary of a racing winch manufacturer, no longer in business) and old generation daiwa sealine(from the 80s). I have a bunch of daiwas that lived for years in rod holders in constant salt spray that still have intact coatings. As long as the coating isnt broken allowing electrical current to pass and create galvanic corrosion it will last a lifetime. Simple way to test is use a multimeter on ohms, you want an open circuit between the alloy and all fasteners and mated materials. Short of anodizing, any dissimilar metals used as fasteners should be insulated, nylon washers from ace, nylon sleeves are good choices, I use them on fasteners for alloy trailers to prevent the white death. For blind holes, countersunk machine screws, etc tefgel is the best product available in the u.s. I've seen, just be aware it acts like a thread lubricant and isnt tolerant of high heat.
For regular painting of aluminum, it's like any thing. 90% time is spent in prep. This prep is de oxidize, de smut, etch and prime. Bonderite 33 first, triple rinse distilled(!!!) Water, alodine 1001, triple rinse distilled(!!!) Then prime, 2 part epoxy primer(lots of choices, many the same) then a 2 part polyurethane.
I have left out the safety concerns (chromic acid, polyurethane hazards) because if you get this far you should be looking at that as well. Use appropriate gear and common sense...
I bring all this up because if your aluminum is exposed to coolant for metal work it will be subject to galvanic corrosion, not as bad as warm saltwater but if you use that system it will last!
For an easier at home setup I've had luck (application method depends on size) with sanding 80 grit(I love my festool rotax) distilled water in a Garden sprayer to rinse, phosphoric acid to etch and SEM primer or better go with epoxy.
Where did you get the ram for your down feed on the power saw? P/N Model?? If you could answer.
Anyhow, great work! This is why I love youtube. To many people worry overly about production/editing for catchy videos and views. I'm looking for information/knowledge/examples for my own use. Thanks for taking the time to make the video!
so used a wire wheel to knock off the paint on an aluminum boat was that a NO NO? gonna prime and paint most of it. Does 80 grit come out smooth on the paint job?
Thanks for this video! If you ever decide to do a second round, please consider including: Moeller ‘Zinc Primer’ which is specifically designated for Aluminum. Also, Rustoleum apparently has an Aluminum primer now.
I would also like to see the self etching primers sprayed over painted aluminum.
Cool man!! Love it. I’m getting ready to paint aluminum.
Thanks for the video.. I'm painting some aluminum parts off my ATV
Great video! I will get the Ace Primer for my aluminum shutters.
Awesome video man.
Reasonable test, surprising results, just the kind of thing I like to see.
thank you for comparison. helpful
Thanx! Aluminum has always been a bear to get a nice finish on on small significant parts.
Very nice presentation, thanks very much
Thank you for the awesome video!
Great test.. thanks for sharing excellent
Thanks for what you've done 5 years ago for us
Good review, thanks.
Great video. I was searching for how to paint an aluminum awning. Do much info here! Thank you
thanks for all the info
Thanks, I wish I saw this before today. Just used Dynaseal to coat the inside of my aluminum hitch toolbox to keep my tools from getting aluminum all over them. I already had the dynaseal, so sanded with 220 and laid it on. If it doesn't stay ill try the ACE. 👍
Thanks for making this sir.
Nice. Thank you!
Thanks for this!
Thank you!
I worked in automotive making aluminum crash management parts, some of those were coated or plated, for certain they have to "key" the surface so that the plating sticks. I am curious if this translates to paints as well, like the "patina" version here has some characteristics of "keying" to help the paint stick to the surface.
Thanks been looking for this
An ok test for a home shop. I've got to wonder though how much of these get vibrated to the bottom because they are heavier than the media and thus would not get as much abrasion on one side which could / would skew the final results. PS..love the SawCyl.. I have that bandsaw and use it a lot so Id like to get one soon.
Very informational video, thanks.
I was brought up priming alum with zinc oxide or chromide. The other day i was told never to use those on aluminum as it is acidic and will corrode the metal. Ive done airplane parts with it for decades. Ive got the same cardboard work bench cover. Ill be interested to see the follow up video in a couple of years to see which primers and paints hold
Great video, informative and scientific enough! I subscribed just based on this video.
I'm killing myself trying to get paint to stick to some aluminum frame channels. I tried sanding, SE primers, different paints and there is always a spot somewhere peeling off. I'm heading down to Ace tomorrow morning. Thanks.
Very cool comparisons! I wish VHT primer would have been tested.
Honestly thank you so much
If you are painting bare aluminum use 120 grit or higher for good adhesion and use self etching primer if you are going to prime first.
Which spray paint should I use after applying the primer?
@@fady904 what spray paint did you end up using?
@@zlab1904 I primed first with Rust-Oleum Primer Pintura Base Adhesion Promoter, then I used Metal Cast Anodized Coating from Dupli.Color.
@@fady904 Window frames I used the Dulux Metalshield etch primer that is anti-corrosion and the Dulux dura max high performance enamel which is drip free/ 2 coats dries in 30 mins - professional factory results. don't forget 120 or higher before priming and wash with acetone to clean clean clean before starting.
Cool =] Thanks!