Plato's Timaeus: A Pythagorean Creation Myth
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2022
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In this video, I explain the first section of the creation myth set forth in Plato’s Timaeus. I begin by explaining its mythological background, and arguing for the rationality of myth. I then sketch the basic picture of the Timaeus, in which the universe is said to be the artistic creation of a demiurge, who copied the beauty he saw in the eternal realm of the forms, in the world of becoming. After the basic frameworks is set forth, I elaborate some specific features of the model: Its account of the universe as a living being, the formation of the universe’s body and soul, and the creation of time, gods, and humanity.
The images used in this video were either created by me or are in the public domain.
Another brilliant discussion by you, this time about Plato's Timaeus and its ("secret") connections with the teachings of the great Pythagoras... It is no small wonder that the Pythagorean sect was eventually persecuted and attacked in Pythagoras's lifetime... The religious conservatives at the time must have been shocked and apalled at teachings like this (which were so strange in comparison to the received traditions (animal sacrifice, idol worship, mysterious myths and rites whose origins they had forgotten) bequeathed by their ancestors. Just as Socrates and Jesus and John Scotus Eriugena and Spinoza and Giordano Bruno and Marguerite Porete were all persecuted and hated (and some of them horribly killed) so too with Pythagoras, in his day, before more educated minds eventually opened up to new knowledge... And speaking of new knowledge, the light you shine on this old text (Plato and Pythagoras) is very welcome - and much appreciated!
Thank you, Doc. I was searching high and low for a lecture on the Timaeus that I could focus on as I walked. Yours fits the bill perfectly. Listening and learning 🙏🏻
Wow I'd love to listen to these videos as podcasts! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge 🙏
Just found your channel. Gotta admit, I'm pretty stoked to binge on it. Lol.
Awesome subject matter.
An excellent video. Thank you for putting in the time to explain with such care and clarity.
Much of this feels so reflective of Aquarian/Piscean divinity at the moment, in the geometry of divinity being reminded; “ It is not the understanding, whose relations always leave the manifold of related terms as a manifold and whose unity is always a unity of opposites [left as opposites]. It is not reason either, because reason sharply opposes its determining power to what is determined. Love neither restricts nor is restricted; it is not finite at all. It is a feeling, yet not a single feeling [among other single feelings]. A single feeling is only a part and not the whole of life; the life present in a single feeling dissolves its barriers and drives on till it disperses itself in the manifold of feelings with a view to finding itself in the entirety of the manifold. This whole life is not contained in love in the same way as it is in this sum of many particular and isolated feelings; in love, life is present as a duplicate of itself and as a single and unified self. Here life has run through the circle of development from an immature to a completely mature unity: when the unity was immature, there still stood over against it the world and the possibility of a cleavage between itself and the world; as development proceeded, reflection produced more and more oppositions (unified by satisfied impulses) until it set the whole of man’s life in opposition [to objectivity]; finally, love completely destroys objectivity and thereby annuls and transcends reflection, deprives man’s opposite of all foreign character, and discovers life itself without any further defect. In love the separate does still remain, but as something united and no longer as something separate; life [in the subject] senses life [in the object].” -www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/love/index.htm
Many thanks for this thought provoking take on Timaeus. Very useful material for our series on Christianity as Mystical Fact.
That was wonderful: thank you very much. I loved how the very last statement echoed Dante's very last verse in the Divine Comedy.
I just love you and your channel bro, you are a treat.
That was brillant & eye-opening, thank you!
I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this, thank you. Have subscribed (Jan 2023). ;)
So interesting - thank you! !
Nicely done and very useful...thank you!
Thank you for this excellent explanation of Timaeus.
This needs some ocarina of time background music, it would feel much more impactful haha
Excellent summary
As I went through this magisterial lecture I did, unsurprising to everyone based on my screen name, notice the presenter had an irrepressible appetite for making negative comparisons with the Bible. I though I'd overlook it and just let it go, as one often must do in the academy. But when the whole lecture culminated with one such comparison it seemed to justify my suspicion that there was an axe to grind, and I thought there might be some value in offering a corrective; or perhaps in true Socratic form, enter into dialectic if there is willingness to do so.
To start off, the comparison with Psalm 89 was apt, as the Old Testament contains a number of creation myths, some of which are combat myths and some are not. A short time later there was a jab taken at God's "jealousy" and another taken at his participation in "human vices." The Hebrew word translated "jealousy" (קנא) is semantically broader than our word jealousy and does not always carry the same negative connotation. It may be used of "zeal" for example, or of an appropriate affection and defensive posture for that which is good, such as a man's loving concern for his wife. This caricature of petty jealousy, well known from a few pieces of popular antagonistic literature, is ultimately traceable to an unfortunate quirk of English translation.
The greatest irony is at the end when Timaeus is pitched as a story in which people are invited to know and ultimately shine like the divine stars of heaven, as where Genesis, again, is showcased as a lackluster alternative. A few misunderstandings here. OT scholars debate the meaning of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but they are quite certain the tree does not represent factual knowledge as such. Usually it's understood to mean something like establishing moral autonomy apart from the creator god, which even Timaeus would not permit since it is divine proportionality that becomes the rubric for human moral aspiration. The flourish about shining like the stars is ironic as well. Biblical scholars discern a story in which humans are meant to ascend to the divine council in exactly these terms, star-like terms. This is why the wise shine like the stars in Daniel 12, language usually reserved for divine beings. This language escalates in the Second Temple Period with figures like Philo who claims the children of Abraham are "like the stars" not only in quantity but in divine quality; and even Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 seems to be drawing on this ascent to divinity with his star language as a description of resurrection. The notion that the whole biblical narrative is about humans elevating themselves to the stars has even become a sort of subculture under biblical scholar Michael Heiser, which is why it was so strange to me to see this projected as precisely the sort of thing the biblical writers know nothing about. The presenter, in other words, did extraordinarily well when he remained in his lane - and I mean that as an authentic compliment on his talents. His animus, however, took him places where his fluency was broken.
Thank you🙏
Great elucidation.
Thanks for this!
Thank you!
Excellent excellent from India
Thank you so much for this!! Recommended by Saffron and I'm so pleased to have found this
I still didn't think I got it, but at the day went on and it tumbled around my head some more it did. Looking forward to listening again today
Hell ya.
Just came across your channel in a search for clarification on the harmonics presented in the Timaeus....subscribed! love the way you clearly explain things, and after reading your channel description immediately saw this space was kindred to my spirit...Gratias tibi ago 🤍
God = Reality = Life
Absolute = All-inclusive
That which is, that is nothing in particular (actual), is by definition everything in general (potential).
0. Potential = Being
1. Actual = Becoming (actualized)
Life eternally actualizes infinite potential, because only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity.
The abstract (Heaven) can be expressed concretely (Earth) as a smile, hug, etc., thereby uniting Heaven and Earth.
Psyche/Soul:
Father = Mind = Inspiration
Mother = Heart = Aspiration
Child = Will = Volition
Integration = Integrity = Soul
When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines).
'Now' is the presence of the eternal/Infinite within the temporal/finite, simply being aware of being aware.
Being For (positive)/not For (neutral) is inherently sustainable (good). Being against (negative) is inherently unsustainable (evil).
wait a minute! Isn't Timues recollecting the memory of the creation!? his soul was there, and no one was there but the creator. Timues is the creator. Socrates leaning back amused as his master Timues, is entertaining him.
Noone knows the full details of the first and second creations but God and demigods. Wanting to keep everything good and free of gealousy, the created is always granted the chance to creat. Even us, we are granted the chance to create literature, machines..etc.
The opposite of an evidence lower bound.
Hence our societal disaster.
ELBO - look it up.
Think about it.
Happy?
Statements about Old Testament does not reflect general biblical knowledge, there ar only opinions of the Athor