I Updated My Race Wheels...
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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As a European, the ZocDoc advertisement was the wildest thing about this video.
For us Americans who are blessed with great health insurance, it’s really nice to be able to shop around for doctors. To have a choice. Have you ever been stuck with a doctor you don’t like in Europe? I guess it’s sad in some perspectives, but when doctors are like any other commodity here, we have a choice.
Pretty embarrassing we're the only developed nation that hasn't figured out public healthcare... this is also why Americans are so lawsuit crazy.
@@JoeyCarbone_1 Im from germany and it is completely okay for us to choose our own doctors. This however is getting exceedingly more difficult because less and less people are becoming doctors, our population is aging and there simply is not enough wo(men)power to handle the patient load.
So yes we can also go shopping for doctors, but depending on location the choices may be rather scarce.
Have a good one!
@@JoeyCarbone_1 Zocdoc is a tech company selling the illusion of choice so it can violate healthcare privacy for money.
@@JoeyCarbone_1
You aren't stuck with a doctor you don't like. Just go to another in Germany. By law you are allowed to consult another doctor before an operation - for free. No shopping around.
The Freehub is the DT Swiss design which is now out of Patent.
These are just a farsports rebrand, can get this exact setup from them for half the price.
Where? Because I can’t find them on the website.
@@bebopman5 wheelsfar
Wide inner widhts and tires are great in most cases but you must also consider traction while cornering. You need a good tire profile/shape with plenty of rubber and also not risking being on the side walls.
28mm internal front 24mm back, I know it's more aerodynamic somehow but most of the weight is on the back wheel so I would prefer it to be as wide as front. Profile of those 30mm tires looks surprisingly good on that wide wheels.
Yeah the narrower rear profile (and needlessly wide front) puts me off. I'm just looking for 32-33 external and 23-24 internal. But most brands are making 28 external 21 internal, with some rare exceptions. LightBicycle's Turbo is probably my current favorite rim profile but their carbon spoke hub design doesn't secure the spokes from the side.
@@lolbubs11111 Why not their WR40 or WR45 with DT Swiss hubs?
In fact bulky front wheel is less aerodynamic! But it better for cross wind stability.
To add to intrigue I’d love to see how these perform against your other wheel-sets you own. Joe from China Cycling did a nice comparison with the CRW’s vs. Roval. Something comparing to name brands was great to see! I like the Reserve wheels set up you chose. Good comparison!
Rebranded farsport wheels. A lot cheaper to go directly through them.
I don't see anything on Farsports website that has these dimensions. Got a link?
These are to wide for me. 24 internal is as wide as I want. Farsports Hyper 50mm 1218 with tape. I picked them up black Friday for 800. Will buy another set this holiday season
@@ChadMcCan-eg9km wheelsfar website. Its basically their carbon spoked wheelset. Rear rim is from hyper series, front rim from their gravel series. Hub is h-works, they call it rd270.
@@ChadMcCan-eg9km Wheelsfar website. They are basically their carbon spoked wheelset. The only difference is they used a wider wheel from their gravel series on the front. I'm sure they can build the same thing if you ask.
full kool-aid mode... 30 mm tires LOL How did you every stay upright racing before? 😆
Good to know.
Question ... are there any other good tires besides the GP5000?
GP 5000 is *THE* top dog.
vittoria corsa, but the price is almost the same
I wouldn't fight them on and off the wheels to change flats if they weren't so nice to ride on. Brutal getting a new pair mounted.
@@charliedillon1400 I let them sit in the sun for three or four hours, then use Muc-Off plastic tire levers. Easy Peasy.
Pirelli TLR RS in 28/30/32mm they are all amazing
Is Zocdoc available in Brazil?
can you run 32 with those wheels on the soloist?
Reddit nerds gonna complain about the loud noise meaning wasted energy
Which bar are you using??
enve
Can you believe people still think 23s are the fastest width?! You should do a test showing just how bad 23s are.
Not correct. The tire-rim interface is more aero if the tire sits deeper in the rim. In this case probably 28 mm tires instead of the 30 mm. See the tire-rim transition on the CAAD System-6 with their propriatairy wheelset that was tested extensively. The tire should have the same shape as the leading edge of the rim to have the least disturbed airflow; in this case of 30 mm the tire is more bulgy than the rim.
That’s not true at all! I have magene wheels with 32mm tyres on. Mine have 30 external and 23 internal and they sit pretty flush. Maybe I’m a 1mm out but it’s a fraction if anything. You telling me a 30mm tyre with a 34 external and a 28mm internal is going to bulb?? That tyre is obviously sitting so deep in the rim. You could run 34mm on them before and still not lightbulb
I cannot say anything about your setup without seeing it. What I meant about what the video shows is that they should not 'just' be flush. As far as I can see in the video is that these tires deliver a more bulgy profile than the leading edge of the rims, which is sub-optimal. Ideally the cross sections of tire and rim should be equal. Most rims have a more narrow edge.
it's a gravel wheel being sold as a road wheel
No, it’s road finally starting to catch up to what has been working the best for gravel.
What makes a wheel a gravel or road specific wheel?
did you finish high scool?
@@ChadMcCan-eg9km width, hooked or hookless (safe tire pressures), typically strength (and weight) in the carbon layup, sometimes spoke count
@@petersouthernboy6327the front is literally a farsports gravel rim
second
I know quite a few OEMs. Peter from Xiamen Carbon Speed can do a similar set for 50g more, 50/50mm, 33/34mm wide (26 internal), for a FRACTION of that price... He OEMs for names we all know, but i'm not allowed to tell :) And legend has it, N6 is rebranding rims from FarSports...
I use the shopping cart analogy for non-believers. Roll a shopping cart around on the tile floor inside a store and everything is honky dory. Take it out to the parking lot and they'll rattle your groceries and break your eggs! :p
Too wide for me, I’ll stick to my 23 and 25mm tires.
Their 30/30 wheels weigh 1,091g as I weighed them with tape, no valves.
28mm internal width is out of spec for a 30mm tire according to E.T.R.T.O. ! I'm not sure it is worth the risk.
Tire nominal width /max rim int. width
23 / 19
25 / 23
28-33 / 25
35-37 / 27
40-45 / 28
These are already upgarded in 2022, earlier it was much smaller!
On this case, u either use a 40mm or bigger tire with these rim, maybe some endurance bike is capable of taking such, or u use a 25mm inner width rim with these tires.
isnt etrto just for hookless wheels?
@@abcxyz6880 No it regulates both. Actually it regulates cars, trucks, planes etc. I think nowadays they r the same. Before 2022, u couldnt mount a smaller then 28 mm tire on a hookless wheel, but maybe it was a couple of mm wider (if i recall right 20.5mm?) then the 19mm hooked for 28 tires.
All Zipp and Enve wheels do not conform to ETRTO.
This is beyond silly, making a video and talking like reading cards ,DT Swiss hub and design everyone knows , big talk for a brand no one has heard about, 28mm internal is for tires way wider
@@eto2352 I'm not sure it is still true, enve makes hookless wheels, there are less regulation for such, and their width number are comply with the 2022 etrto. Beside both wheel manufacturer sell their own tires and makes a compatibility list, so use one of those. But one thing is sure, if its outside of the spec, the tire manufacturer will not take any responsibility, if anything goes wrong. Enve and Zipp might take, a new brand in China? The speed advantage here is like within the error of measurement, why take even 1% risk?
How do these compare to the Winspace Lun Hypers you had, the 2nd gen? I have the D67 & was wondering how they accelerate. I don't feel that on them & I know they are deeper but I've never noticed any pop from them when putting power down. Great at speed & holding it but accelerating has always been an issue. I do have a bad knee that is getting replaced soon though. =)
i'd get steel spokes, they will be more forgiving than carbon. and i doubt you're racing with that kind of injury.
the fact that they are copying no.6 and no.22 branding almost 1 to 1 is a turn off
You're paying a premium on a Farsports wheel anyone could order (but shouldn't for this use per the ETRTO issues) to support a rip-off artist. Brutal.
If No22 could make wheels like they make bikes they would be amazing and very pricey.
Not sure I agree with your first statement _"you get a little bit more aerodynamic performance if the rim is deeper on the BACK wheel."_ The FRONT wheel has clean air (compared to the rear) and would absolutely benefit more from having greater depth, but it's also far more prone to the effects of wind and gusts while the rear can tolerate far more side forces.
Absolutely agree with that.I think that If you want to have some aero-savings, try to run the front wheel as deep as the weather/ wind conditions “allow” you, without feeling the cross wind gusts.
But you do get aero savings? It’s just not as much as if you had a deeper wheel. That’s why they still run disc rears in TT. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought he was saying it’s more aero than having an equally or more shallow wheel in the back.
Pretty sure you did not misunderstood. I haven't tested it because I don't have those CDA thingys. Theoretically you are right.
But I will say, it looks nicer with shallower in the front. So be it.
No, it’s the opposite reality, OP. The clean air in the front can successfully use a shallower rim because boundary layer attachment is less important. The more turbulent, dirty air in the back benefits more from the longer attachment time of a deeper rim. Also, the front wheel will benefit more from the rule of ”105” than a deeper rim section.
It's possible the thought just wasn't very well articulated. What you could interpret from this is you can get away with putting a deeper wheel on the back even if you can't/don't want to put one on the front as it'll be less affected by cross-winds and add an element of aerodynamic gain, rather than assuming you have to have the same depth front and back, giving away some watts (whatever that is or means).
Isn't that exactly how a DT Swiss 240 hub works?
yes, same design as all the DT swiss freehubs and many other higher end freehubs.
@@NorCalCycling
It is an exact copy of the DT Swiss hub. Assume their patent expired.
Are No.6 using DT Swiss parts, are they acknowledging the use of DT Swiss hub internals or are they copies but slightly different (as done by Gaint and many others) also can we see a direct comparison to the rapide clx wheels seen on the channel previously?
DT Swiss had a patent that expired hence why now so many other companies are using the two ring ratchet method. DT Swiss have moved over to what they call EXP with just one moving ratchet ring and one fixed.
How could i fit it in aerobike? I have New Scott foil, and maximum tire is 30mm. What about older bikes? 28mm max, 25, 23???
This is gravel wheels
Measure yourself and see the actual space you've got to work with, I had an old Merida which everyone had told me 28's wouldn't fit, turns out I could probably fit 30s as 28's fitted easy
These are just rebranded Farsport wheels….. don’t believe the hype.
Are they? I can't see any Farsport wheels wider than 30mm external
@@lawrences1347 yes, just more Chinese rubbish. Perhaps it’s a new model just for the no6 brand but it’s definitely farsports.
Rebranded by ripping-off the branding of an existing US carbon component company as someone else has noted (No. 6 Composites). You're paying a premium on a Farsports rim with a DT Swiss derivative hub anyone could order directly (but shouldn't for this use per the ETRTO issues) to support a rip-off artist. HARD PASS.
@@Amory-o1o Send me a link to where I can buy hoops with these dimensions cheaper. I have an extra set of hubs, but need WIDE rims.
@@jreddin4488 while I have no disagreement with the source of these wheels, calling them rubbish because they are from a chinese brand is not it. Where do you think all the big brands get their stuff from? Certainly not europe. Farsports is one of the most reputable manufacturers there is and they have a huge OEM business for big brands.
You could count a dozen factories in Xiamen and you'd probably cover 95% of the cycling industry's carbon.
Might be time to try the new Reserve 42|49. I'm sure Mike's Bikes got you covered!
Curious how they compare to the CRW 5060 wheels from panda podium.
Just ask users in Farsport thread on weightweenies, as these are actually Farsport wheels, just half more expensive!
I paid $350 for 50mm Chinese deep wheels, and I don't feel any difference while riding them compared to the HUNT 50 I had before. I don't pay for expensive wheels anymore.
Where did you buy it?
I'm running 30c GP5000s on my pair. The confidence plowing over bad pavement is next level.
This is the way. After training on them for a couple weeks I decided to race on them with the same setup, one crit and one road race so far, they've been spectacular.
Wait till you try tubeless!
The star ratchet design is just the standard dt swiss star ratchet, no magic... also with the pawl design it is generally possible to have a way higher engagement then on star ratchets, because the teeth can only be so thin before they brake. With pawls you can have multiple pawls engage staggered (so not all at the same time) and achieve very quick engagements (que i9 hydras, que other problems but that's not the point)
I got 32s on my sl8
That’s a gravel wheel guy
I noticed on the no6 site that the rim width is different front and back. Do you use identical tires anyway?
I used the same, but a 28mm could also work nicely on the rear.
That freehub design is everywhere now, dt, mavic, envee, those are the ones I know, there are probably a few dozen more that work like this now! Very easy to maintain and change parts
People are saying that bulky front rim is more aerodynamic.
In fact bulky front wheel is a bit less aerodynamic! But it is better for cross wind stability.
I´m not sure if such wide front tire (Jeff measured more then 33mm) is good for riding uphill if I stand in the pedals or for sprinting. I think you will feel the front tire very squishy and unstable. That why Specialized made their Roval wheels front ext. 35mm/but int. only 21mm and rear ext. 30,5mm/int. 21mm.
I would like it if Jeff made a video how the wide tires behave in racing conditions. Thanks.
can these be used for gravel?
Yes, I asked to the company.
Yes they can be used for light gravel.
Well the front rim was designed as a gravel rim
Thank you Jeff for this test! How wide is 30mm GP Conti tire on 24mm inner width rear rim. Thanks.
Looking forward to seeing all the other UA-cam cycling channels hyping these over the next few weeks, discounts and all. These companies use YT channels as their press junkets now.
NorCal Cycling, FIRE VIDEO!
free shipping, crash replacement, 1260gr. Im in
Nice video. Did you try Hope calipers for the road?..
What Are Those Disc Brake Rotors??
Excellent no-nonsense review!
these would not fit on my systemsix 2019, dang it
Tesla should make a launch control freehub. :)
I like your videos a lot more with explanations in it!
How much heavier were the wider tyres?
Ultimately this is just a sponsored Chinesium wheel advertisement
His technical points about aero are perfectly valid.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Tell me you don't understand anything about wheels, without telling me
@@n8torious309 if you’re running carbon rims they were almost certainly made in China. A virtual certainty if your wheelset was less than $1500.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Taiwan actually
@@n8torious309 the really higher end stuff gets made in Taiwan. And rightfully so.
How much are you getting paid to schill these wheels?
nothing up front, but i get a small percentage of sales that use my code at checkout. It's called an affiliate link and it's not something I usually agree to unless I'm really passionate about the product.
I ride a 30 mm tyre in the rear and a 28 mm tyre in the front on my Zipp 454 NSW. Zipp says that the 454 wheels are optimized for 28 mm tyres.
I ride GP5000S TR in tubeless setup.
These definitely have my intrest, the weight and width combo puts them in their own category, the fact that that rear is narrower is weird, but as a former crit racer myself, I used to run a wider front tubular because we believed that it was more important to keep the front tire sticking in the turns and we could accept less grip in the rear. As an old guy, I now prioritize comfort; I can't believe I used to enter races on 18-20mm clincher tires in the 90s. Another great vid, sad to see it bringing out an unusually high number of trolls this time around, but as TS sang, "A haters going to hate hate hate..."😀
Have the same pairs, recently shod with GP5000 28's, and front measure at 34mm and rear a little over 31mm. The level of confidence in corners is very obvious. Also, on the flats, and maybe its the bladed spokes done right, hey seem to carry speed easier than my previous aero wheels (60/55mm depth). Best upgrade for 2024. Great review !
@NorCal Cycling, just out of curiosity do you have any concerns about the longevity of these wheels? I'm interested if the weight and cost difference could mean differences in the carbon layup of the wheel, the bearings, or the spokes causing the wheels to not last as long. I agree for the price it seems like a great value! I'd like to try them out someday.
Congratulations, you have introduced the Dr Swiss Ratchet hub to the world , 20years later. I have nothing but respect for this channel but this episode was someone who sold out for a set of wheels
I was interested until you said they come with carbon spokes, which is (unfortunately) probably where the weight savings is. Would be interested to hear how they are holding up 2 years into racing them.
Pretty nice wheelset! I have Vision metron 45sl on my Soloist but these wheelset are cheaper and lighter but I got a good deal on mine that why I got them.
Good that DTSwiss’s patent expired so now everyone can copy it.
I stay with my crw wheels
Not this fat but fat…
Way lighter and deeper
My mates were laughing on me when I was racing crits on my cyclocross bike with 34-35mm tires from like 2010s :) and soon as gp5000 32s came out I have been racing on them since. Finally people are getting that wide tires "thing" I was never able to explain, but it just felt right. Love those No.6 rim widths and with that Cervelo they look amazing. Thanks for amazing video as always.
35mm tires on crits?? How are you keeping up back then? Realistically if all are equal(fitness, race awareness), you are in a disadvantage. Unless you were the strongest in the pack back then.
The only slicks i know in 2010 with 35mm was Schwalbe kojak, Conti Speed Contact. First ist a bit shyte in rolling resistance Tests but hast nice Handling and grip. Casing is a bit stiff.
@@RevoltingRudi Yeah, I think I was using those Conti Speed then Challenge Strade or something and then GP5000 ever since.
@@savievankint Yes back then I was starting with cycling and did not care about rolling resistance (to be fair if you take look at norcal test 34-32 are essentially the same speed as 30-28s) or aero and our local race was like Paris Roubaix back then, plus Iam 6foot5 and on 23-25mm i was feeling like bambee on ice or something :). Iam still using my cyclocross frame with 32s (on my rims they are measuring 34) right now, I think at my height having not super aero frame is least of my worries. Iam not the strongest racer but I think I do not suck ether :).
@@martinkroutil best upgrade are nice tyres, good fitting kit, good position on the bike and nice wheels.
however stopwatch never lies. if you want to know if 23mm or 32mm is faster, run it in a velodrome and/or on a closed crittrack beetween races and do runs with same power output.
now hear me out, how about a parts giveaway? 😅😥
Hooked or hookless? Did I miss this info?
Unsafe hookless ? No thanks
Rule of 105 has been objectively disproven this year as a farce. You’re jumping on the back of a years-old train that has already gone out the door. I mean, just for example, Dylan Johnson did Rule of 105 testing and found his big ass MTB tires to be just as aero as the narrower gravel tires. It literally makes no difference if there is a smooth interface from rim to tire. That has been quantitatively demonstrated time and time again.
Keegan Swenson wipes the floor with Dylan Johnson - no wind tunnel required.
@@petersouthernboy6327wow one of the strongest American gravel riders destroys someone not as strong, great observation
@@RylHango much more logical and demonstrable than nerds geeking out on a 1.5 watts (and that’s generous) differential over a rim-to-tire interface.
yes it is because both tires are way too wide so it dosnt matter if the rim is 60% or 65% if it would had to be 105%
@@petersouthernboy6327 Keegan Swenson could win on a beach cruiser if he wanted to...
and he also uses monstrously oversized tires on gravel rims, so not sure what your point was supposed to be?
I wonder how the hubs compare against the chris king r45d hubs?
@@Bundynational at this point over time so much homework has been copied from the big brands R&D it’s hard to go wrong with many current wheels. I have the No.6 30/30 version and also own DT180 wheels. Can’t tell a difference.
so bottom line is no difference....so not so much of an update
But there’s a lot more to performance than just the aero test. You should watch the whole video
"standard bladed carbon spokes" lol
Kinda wild right? Never thought that would be the new standard for performance carbon wheels
Will there be any more videos on those budget super team wheels?
probably not, but happy to answer any questions you might have, let me know.
@@NorCalCyclingbought a tcr advanced rim brake from you best bike 4k build video. Super team classic pros a nice choice to upgrade stock wheels? Thanks.
Cadex 50 are better
Sure. At four times the price. He’s Crit racing. You’ll cry like a baby the first time you brush a curb with your Cadex wheels.
Better, how? What is better about them?
With the front and rear wheel having different external widths is it worth running different size tires like a 28 and a 30 to follow the rule of 105?
Ah I just saw you answer a similar question in another comment. Thanks Jeff.
105 rule is a myth
@@invisiblescout6335 Hmm yeah I guess. In Silca's original blog post it seems there's only a couple of watts difference. But Jeff seems to think it's important and in his other video where he's testing 28s against 32s the 32s test much faster, I think on Roval Rapide's which are pretty wide. So I dunno...
@@jscalabre there is no real rule, it's entirely case dependent. Anybody trying to make an all encopassing rule is talking out of their ass. The only rule actual aerodynamics experts at swiss side and aerocoach have found is that there isn't a rule and every setup needs to be optimised independently.
A generous interpretation of ISO safety factor suggests MINIMUM tire width for a wheel that wide is 35c. Might want to mention to your viewers.
Considering these No.6 wheels are both hooked and to be ran with tubes, the likelihood of failure with 30c clincher tires is negligible. For context...Zipp just released their latest aero gravel wheels which are 32mm internal width, tubeless, and hookless. Yet Zipp recommends 40c tires. It seems the industry is moving in this direction.
Oddly, my comment referring to ETRTO standards was removed. 30’s on 28mm internal is way out of spec. Seems suspect.
I believe the ISO safety info is about hookless rims
ZIPP doesn't meet ISO minimum safety guidelines either.
@@adammeyer4928 nope, covers all rims. Read: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775
I dont see the 10% discount?
Did you click the link in the description? code is NorCal10
@@NorCalCycling just did thanks!
Hooked or hookless? I didn't catch it in the video
no sound check is criminal
first 2 seconds bro! sound check before i even started speaking lol
@@NorCalCycling derp
@@NorCalCycling In my brain it didn't count because you didnt do it on the bike haha
Just get a Tarmac with Rovals ☺️
He’s Crit racing. You’ll cry like a baby the first time you crash your SL-8.
first
🎉🥇
Not a big fan of reserve wheels I think they are over price! It’s all cycling fashion.
really bro your special freehub is just that vanilla DT design we've been using for decades. I don't like them because they are loud and have higher drag than pawls. My cx bike has the Onyx Vesper, totally quiet and instant engagement. Shame I can't build them with those high zoot carbon spokes.
You are wrong about the grip. A tire has better grip as it has higher pressure on the contact surface. Wider tyre -> wider surface-presure distributed on the surface. As a result, you can see how pro riders are literally slipping during cornering at high speed.
You are wrong about the grip. Per Pacejka tire models, If riding on pitch based asphalt that 99% of the western world drives on, increased width adhesive forces scales greater than your loss hysteresis traction. So a wider tire will yield higher net lateral grip.
@@shawnnong5999 prove me wrong then
@@shawnnong5999 at least pro peloton already showed how wider tires easily losing traction
And now 1 million dollar question: best carbon wheels with weight around or less 1300g for the RIM brake? I can see lots of options from the brands for disk brake, but less options for rim brake.
Limitations are at the calipers. Current tech has maxed out for carbon rims for rim brake unfortunately.
I went with the Drive D50v’s in ultralight configuration paired with GP5000 28’s tubeless at 60psi. They observe the 105 rule with the 28’s in rim and they are about as wide as my Ultegra rim brakes can handle
email any OEM in China, they still crank these out no problem. Farsports (Windy), Xiamen Carbon Speed (Peter), or Yuanan, just to name 3. The last rim set i got was from Farsports last fall. A Farsports cockpit won the olympics so please dont assume you're buying trash. Ask for at least full T800 carbon. For simplicity you can ask for sapim cxray spokes.
Wow! Very comprehensive and in depth review Jeff. Putting it into the crit races are where the wheels excel best! And now WEAPON OF CHOICE!
I've ditched tubeless & Sealant & Carbon Wheels.
I've changed my Race Wheels, Gone Back to Aluminium Tubular Wheels because there lighter I can higher pressures for better rolling resistance with tubular tyres.
28c 25c are the Quickest Tyres on Every Test Set up I've used.
The moment I went over to 30c tyres using tubeless and sealant my times were well down.