Very interesting. I have no more desire to build my own wheels than I have to knit my own parachute! However, thankfully, there are people like you and who can do an excellent job.
It's not that hard if you start with a very basic wheel, i.e. non-disc front wheel (symmetric), basic low-profile double-eyelet aluminum rim, stainless-steel round spokes, brass nipples, 36 spokes, 3-cross interlaced. As long as you get that true and sufficiently tensioned, it's basically fool-proof. What is hard is being reasonably fast at the process, getting the wheel to stay true long-term even if it's ridden hard, choosing the optimal parts to fit together, building a durable wheel with less spokes, and building more complicated wheels where the basic methods don't work out.
The best part of DT swiss is that when I come home from fixing other people's bikes, I do not have to fix my own bike. I have riden my 240's for ages and never replaced a single part.
I originally ride Light-bicycle WR50 set. Then just by curiosity, ordered Turbo 50 rim to re-lace on my front wheel. The WR50 is already 25mm internal but with 32mm external and without the serrated profile. Turbo 50 at also 25mm internal but with 34.5mm external with that particular profile ride significantly more calm in the crosswind condition. I notice the lack of side push. It's like the wheel disappeared under me that I no longer think about it.
Nice to see the Light Bicycle brand getting some love. I have these same rims on the wheel set built by LB with their hubs and carbon spokes, they look and ride awesome.
My local wheelbuilder uses Light Carbon rims, and he built me a wheelset this Spring with the Light WR50 rims, Chris King R45D hubs, Sapim CX Ray spokes, and brass nipples. I run GP 5000 AS TR’s in 700x35 tubeless and I’m thrilled with the results. Very fast rolling and I can stay on the bike literally all day long.
@@Onigure I was in for about $1500 all in for the wheelset built. I ride five days a week on average, and US parts availability and known quality and reliability of components recommended by a plurality of local wheel builders and bike shop mechanics were important to me. The tires were about $90 each.
You missed out on the fun of feeding nipples though the valve hole and using a magnet and steel nipple insert to get them to the spoke hole. The benefit is there's no tubeless tape ever needed it but it was a royal pain in the ass (I had plenty of time during Melbourne lockdown 2020!). I haven't had to replace a spoke in 4 years! I used Light Bicycle AR56 rim brake rims, Pillar bladed spokes, brass nipples (of course!), silver 36 hole shimano hubs (18 spokes front, and 27 spokes in the rear in a 2:1 ratio for nearly the same spoke tension between the DS and NDS). It was a great budget carbon wheel build
I’ve been riding four lightbike builds for the past 5 years. I only have positive things to say. I have the 25 int 32 ext rims with 30mm gp5000s at 60 psi. I’m 80kg and they’re fast and comfortable.
@@markusseppala6547 30 > 32 ... Which makes for a pretty flush tyre rim transition. 32 > 34 great to soak up the bumps in the rear. Great wheels, but maybe a little heavy in 2025
@@markusseppala6547 they measure 32-33 depending on pressure. I have WRs in a few depths and they’ve all been good. My 45s are 1320g on carbon Ti hubs and have been abused for nearly four years now.
I'm about to build a pair of very similar wheelsets using LB rims with DT Swiss 240 hubs and same spokes. Your comments about interlacing the spokes made me run over to my bike. My Princeton Carbon Grit wheels with DT Swiss 240 straight pull hubs and aero spokes have them interlaced. I have not built wheels with straight pull spokes yet, so this was a great video. Well done.
Great video. All my wheel builds are prestressed on a press and checked for trueing with a tire mounting before packing and shipping. In case of spokes overlapping, I pre-torsion spokes against each other at 50% tension before final tension gets applied.
That was a very interesting video. I don't think I will ever be building my own wheels but it is still useful to know how it is done, what tools are required, and not least all the work that goes into it.
I dig White Industries hubs for the same reasons I like DTs - ubiquitous parts, easy swap between thru & QR. Great customer service also. Tangentially, I’d love to see case studies/comparisons on wheelsets built with brass nips & cx/ray spokes, as those are always the two constants I stick to when building up a set. Great vid!👏🏻👏🏻
Recently built a similar pair of wheels with 24mm internal carbon rims from Carbonal, Sapim Cx-Ray spokes and DT-Swiss 350 straight-pull hubs. The parts and tools cost me 832€ instead of 892€ pre-built shipping included. I did however build the wheels using my bike upside-down and eyeballing the dish or sliding my thumb in between the rim-frame/fork interface on each side. I figured I could always go to my community bike workshop if I need a wheel truing stand but I was able to get down to the point where I couldn't ’t see any lateral or radial movement. I've been riding these wheels for a couple months now, including a 500km trip with bike packs and it's all holding up well. The only issue I've encountered is a stripped nipple from overworking the wheel and a lack of stiffness in the front wheel causing slight brake rub when I stand up to sprint. I know it's from the tension being a little low especially on the right side of the front wheel but I'll address this soon. Overall I'm very pleased with this project which has demystified wheel building and would encourage other people to try it out!
Great video and detailed building process of cool wheels. Light Bicycle has even wider gravel rims of 44 mm height and 30/40 inner/outer rim width. I would like if they also made 28h serrated pattern rims, to ease finding of matching 110/148 boost hubs. Why did you choose this particular rotation for the grooves, because manufacturer recommends other direction when bulge hits passing air followed by gradual cutout?
Been riding 55mm Light Bicycle rims in summer since 2015 on 18/24 Shimano Ultegra hubs and CX Rays and have been bomb proof. Some cheap sacrificial Wiggle brake pads and they have lasted forever
27:00 "There's certainly more flex". For anybody interested: More flex by lower tensioned spokes doesn't mean there'll be any less stiffness in the wheel. As long as no spokes are slack or near slack you'll have your stiffness for that build.
@@Mapdec Minimum 50kgf will stop that. The point I tried to make was that 100 or 50kgf won't make much of a difference. You could mess up your spoke nipples if you mess around too much. Create extra work just to satisfy an ocd. 😁 On triplet hubs it's super easy though. You don't have that low tensioned NDS side to worry about.
thank you for all the info.. waiting for the same wheel on 40mm .. great wheels. I already have the ar25 with carbon spokes.. crazy light at reasonable price
Great content, as usual. Happy to see the dials, wish you would destress on a surface other than the ground to avoid marking the hub face interfacing the frame later on. before the app, we would keep notes on paper, this is needed for any beginner, it helps learning when to stop. please show people to weight balance the wheels to avoid hight speed wobble, it does make a huge difference going down mountains, braking and turning. I'm looking for other weight materials than lead theese days, I wish I'd find zink or tungsten stickers.
The ground here is carpet. Softest around. I have tried balancing. I just found my the time you add valves, sealant, that sealant dries a bit, etc. It makes zero difference
i've ridden on light bicycle wheels for over 5 years and only ever broken 1 super light gravel rim from a rock. Currently using their wr50 rims and ar25 on bitex hubs :)
Interesting to hear that you've been using light bicycle rims. I was actually looking at the falcon pro wg44 (38mm external) to use with pro one 38 tires on a sort of road plus endurance bike that I'm already using 32mm external gravel wheels on. I don't see how it's not the future for people that just want to be comfortable and fast at the cost of some weight and steering precision.
I had Lightbicycle for wide inner width rims last year, but they had none in the pro version. Had to go with Farsports. Compared to standard narrow rims, I am not sure if the wide inner width makes the wheels feel more stable. Looking forward to your ride review video (especially in cross winds) because I'm planning to get these wheels within next 3 months to have more deeper & stable wheels before my next half IM.
Madpec, 25mm wide internal is the feature! I run same width wheels on my ADHX built as a road bike. The tires will me much more stable cornering due to the more straight sidewall.
Outstanding build and video MAPDEC! I’ve been planning a similar build with 24h U-shaped 40/45 (F/R) depth rims with 27i/33x widths but was concerned that they’d really only be usable with 32C+ tires. While it is their intended purpose (a gravel wheelset for 35-45C tire use), I’m now rethinking this and perhaps I’ll go with these LB rims to have a 30C road tire option and make the wheels more versatile. They do look nice too! You’ve got me thinking about personalized logos as well now… 😄
Check out the roval rapide clx ii. They have external width of 35 on the front! Rear wheel is only 30.7 external. 21mm internal so would make tire more 'true to size'.
6:00 I like the choice of material. Alu nipples not only experience corrosion, you need to be careful when truing them only with high quality tools, otherwise it's easy to chew through them and they get rounded easily.
£1500, good lord I wish I could afford a full bike at that price, let alone a wheelset. Regardless, absolutely stunning bit of kit. Thanks so much for sharing - particularly in my case as someone new to the process of building my own wheels. It was most interesting that you re-check tension after mounting tires. Thus far I've been deflating tires before adjusting tension, thinking that the tubes and tires might interfere - particularly as old tires so often seem to rarely sit completely parallel on the rim. I'll definitely give it a go with pressure next time.
Maybe I’m pretty forward thinking with products but I thought 25mm IW rims are pretty common place these days, reserve, enve and zipp all having 25mm wide rim within there catalogue. So much so you’re now starting to see tier manufacturers release tiers specifically designed for wider rims, Goodyear and zip being a prime example along with enve’s race day range and Vittorias soon I’m sure to be released 29mm corsa pros. I ride on the out outgoing 40/44 reserve road wheels to great effect. As for brass v alloy nipples, well alloy need a little more tlc but Ive yet to in 15 years snap alloy nipples, a little water and WD 40 neutralises the corrosion after a salty ride, and you just have to make sure you really wash the bike down.
I feel more confident when cornering on wide rims 🤷🏻♂ and all my bikes have wider than usual rim widths. It's a topic interesting to observe how it changes in the future. Maybe not the wisest choice for comfort as tires do need to flex on sidewalls, but it's slightly compensated by the wide tires. 303 Firecrest for road (25mm), Nukeproof Neutron non-boost MTB for e-gravel (28mm), Prime Orra 650b for all-road / gravel (26mm), and the Tern Orox original set (35mm). All hookless, not the reason I chose these rims for, but they do make the tires even wider.
Seems like the gravel/road world has a diffent view on rim width vs tyre width than mtb. In the mtb world 25mm rims are used for up to 2.4-2.5” tyres (the ex471 remains top choice in the dh circuit) where they see a LOT more cornering forces but the carcasses are generally tougher.
So final wheel truing with the tire on the rim and inflated is an interesting concept which is different from what I have seen on other wheel building videos.
I've built over 200+ wheels for the shop I work at and I've noticed this a lot depending on what rims are being used. Weaker/cheaper rims like WTB i23s or DT R460s will lose a lot of tension after a tire is installed. Sometimes needing an additional 2 turns of tension. Great to see that Mapdec is mentioning this!
@@aldenfollett3843 Are spoke tension settings from the wheel manufacturers based on empty rims or rims with inflated tires? A similar issue occurs with fastener torque setting for dry fasteners even though applying anti-seize lubricant is recommended which requires reducing torque by 20%. Confusing.
Generally, max spoke tension recommendations from rim manufacturers are given without tyres and do account for a certain tension drop once a tire is mounted and inflated.
Non interlaced is vreat on rear wheel. It gives a extra suspension stress on the rear wheel. Most specialy the weigth of riders are more at the rear wheel.. interlaced locks wiggling or vibration and gives a very stiff and tough rear wheel. Good choice.. . That wide rear wheel seems for gravel.. more great for gravel wheel tunning..
Avsolutly loved the video, full of information. I do have a lot of (newbie) questions though: 1. What, no dishing tool necessary? For me when I built my old 3 cross 32 or 36 spokes, it helped to use a dishing tool so that I don't go astray at some point. 2. I would have like to know what is the difference in tension between the non-drive and the drive side spokes at ten end. And what is an acceptable difference? Do they all have to sit in construtor limits (non drive side sometimes end up a bit too loose compared to my drive side I think, maybe too much) 3. I would have like you to show how you select the actual spoke length for both non-drive and drive side 4. I saw you adding the lubricant at the base of the nipples. I would have thought more natural to put it at the jonction betwern the spoke and the nipple. 5. Any preferred brand for the brass nipples or the one in a big box on amazon will just do. 6. I just loved the advise to take our time and to enjoy the process. It's been a few years that I do bike mechanics as a hubby and to enjoy the process has been key for me. It helped me to undersrand more, visualise more and to come up with solutions more. Mmm what else? Thank you! (And maybe another video would help to cover all these points, although it mainly usefull for debutants only, but i think that there plenty of debutants watching this video. No a lot of people are good atbbuilding wheel just as a hubby....
Crikey. Yes. Keep watching. I’ll cover those at some point. If your trying stand is set up well the dishing tool is just there as a last minute 2nd opinion on the dish.
Man those wheels add bling to the bike. Definitely. I am in the process of buying two set of identical wheels and I am *was torn between these in size 65mm with 240 hubs and the GR1600 that you happened to have also reviewed. I did all the checkout procedure calculating the taxes on the website... And you know what? two pair of these will cost me about 2800 Euros and two pair of GR1600 will cost me around one thousand euro with discs. Me and the bike usually weight one hundred kilos when I am riding. I am 31 years old, lean, muscular and life is beautiful even if I have the CDA of a delivery truck. I certainly plan to travel a lot for Iron Man 70.3 races (as an amateur with clip on bars on a Canyon Inflite or Canyon Grizl) and in June I plan to race the full Iron Man in Klagenfurt... Considering I have an FTP of 283 watts, how much speed do you think I'll lose on the flat with the GR1600 compared to the LB 65mm? Thank you for the well-polished video and the advice on wheel building.
@@Mapdec Thank you very much! I am not really worried for the 70.3. I am worried for the Full Ironman because times do stack up and if I need to walk the marathon because I got an injury or I don't feel well I want to be able to do it without the shame of getting kicked out because out of time.
Xiamen carbon speed can do a 50mm depth 33mm outer width 26mm inner in raw finish at 390g now (using T1100). 80g on rims is substantial. I think that gloss finish may be costing 40 or 50g.
@@TenSapphires and btw for these OEM guys, best to contact them, most of the time their website is at best an afterthought. They make stuff for high street brands, and these brands don't order off the website. I myself email RFPs whenever I want stuff, and I'm not even a brand.
I think there's a point where fit and finish is just done. The difference is completely cosmetic so I usually just go for as good as it functionally gets and leave worrying about the finer points to Hambini and Peak.
25 internal... Sounds like tubeless may be a little easier to install now... Maybe I am wrong. I got my last hubs built with j-pull. I understand this is a better way to go over straight pull, especially for mountain biking and gravel.
I'm really considering those rims. The internal and external width are similar to enves pog is riding at tdf and hey I don't really know if 25 internal is that important but the fat external width is absolutely needed if you want to properly shade a 30mm tire. I guess I'll ride with 28 because they'll probably end at 30 given internal width. The biggest issue here is lack of testing. Does this shape makes any sense ? I have no clues.
Regarding Aluminum versus Brass Nipples: A decade ago, was a bicycle mechanic running a road and triathlon bicycle shop in Los Angeles and it was extremely common to a have aluminum nipples freeze, corrode so that they would not move, on carbon wheels where the customer lived or trained right next to the ocean. I have been told that the root problem is a galvanic reaction between the carbon fiber in the rim and the aluminum nipples, a reaction that is accelerated by the salt in the ocean environment. I would have expected bicycle manufacturers to have developed a system, some sort of composite washer, whereby a non-conductive material isolates the aluminum nipple from the carbon fiber weave of the rim.
Please do a video on building road wheels and and pros and cons of 1:1 arrangement vs 2:1 for example 16-8 spokes. I currently ride FFWD Ryot44 (Disk) 2:1 and have about 15,000 miles without issue. Both sides are crossed. I see high end DTSwiss road wheels and the ones your building here have same count each side. Is one better then the other? Every way I look at it the 2:1 is better but if that was true why hasn't it become the standard so I might be missing something.
The only advantage is weight loss and when most buying decisions are price/ weight. a few grams of spokes matter. You only really see other spoke arrangements on prebuilt wheels. They are there as sales gimmicks to look cool or reduce spoke count for weight saving.
Very interested in these. Are you close to releasing your review? If they have a Black Friday sale I'm likely to order if you endorse them. I'm in for the DT240 with brass
20:49 My wheel-building friend explicitly told me to not do this as he said there would be 80kg going through the hub bearing axially. It's not designed to take it, and it would trash it. Any truth in that?
Great video! I have a similar set of lb wheels, 50mm wheels with 25mm internal, dt hubs and sapim spokes. They ride great with 30mm tubeless tires! What's your take on carbon spokes?
About those truing stand adapters for thru axles, I've just been using my thru axle through the hub as a way to put them in the stand. In my case the larger OD portions of the axles are long enough to keep the wheel properly aligned and solid in the stand. What am I missing or what's a compelling reason I'd consider getting the adapters?
Hiya, apprentice mechanic here. I currently have a job in for a two-wheel build for a customer using Hope hubs, Dt rims, and J-Bend spokes for a fancy computer (double panniers, etc.). The customer asked the difference between spoke patterns, and after an explanation and recommendation, they chose to go for two-cross wheels. My question is, do you guys build many two-cross wheels, and if so, what applications do you recommend them in? Keep up the great videos, always excited to learn something new when I see one comes out!
@@0-60.tests.with.Passengers the reason why is I'm still learning. I have passed my qualification only a few months ago but have only built a handful of wheels to be ridden and dozens more for practice. I know the benefits and disadvantages of different spoke types and lacing patterns on paper but I have not gathered the experience of these guys who have built thousands so this is a good place to ask
The 3T exploro had 22mm internal rims and very sus hubs, wheels came instantly out of true I took the opportunity and made myself a Frankenstein set with 370 ratchet ln straight pull hubs featuring "ryet" 25mm internal carbon rim from ali, yes 😅, I used DT comp spokes with squorxs nipples that are probably worth more than the ali rims, cuz logics 🤷 I did stress them a lot, 78 kilos of stress, many times. I had my doubts but they hold true and didn't explode about 200km in...
I've built my own wheels for a couple of decades now, mostly mountain bike wheels but about 6 road sets. The one step I have never done is that final truing with the tires mounted on the rim. Makes sense that the tires pressure compresses the rim but the guys who taught me how to build wheels never did this step. I've only seen two videos where this was done and yours is one of them and both videos were Brits. Must be a British thing I'm guessing.
Loved this, Especially as I'm thinking of using these rims and some Bontrager RSL hubs. Which finish did you order for the rims, and which warranty do you recommend please?
A long warranty on this sort of thing is always a bit pointless in my opinion as it’s not really enforceable and in that time these rims will be long discontinued. I think these were the basic gloss finish
@mapdec Is there a potential issue of bringing the tension up to spec with tyre on, that the spokes will *over tension* in the case of a puncture/flat?
So would wheels with hidden nipples, which require the tyre off for truing, essentially hinder them in terms of being able to ensure they are at the right tension with a tyre on?
Yeah. When built in a factory wheels have a load applied by machine. It’s very hard to build internal nipples tight enough at home. When I do it in the workshop I often have to put my weight on the rim on the floor to tighten.
So, now that you have a bit of experience builing wheels on Light Bicycle rims, would you recommand them ? Tenting looks pretty bad, but drillings looks pretty good on this model.
I don’t think these is such a thing. I would just get a press from Ali express and a slide hammer kit from Amazon. Make sure you get one that goes down to 9mm. Then just get the specialist tools you might need for your hubs.
@@MapdecOkayy great thanks for the advice I appreciate you responding. I love your videos and am an avid watcher keep up the great work looking forward to the next video love the detail to workmanship👌🏾
Please, can someone explain me. Why is it after installing a tire insert, the tire gets wobbel in it? It's doesn't matter cushcore or vittoria airliner.
Great Q. The NDS will generally take care of itself if your spoke lengths are correct. Refer to the spoke spec for min tensions and keep it above that.
@@Mapdec Thanks Mapdec. Would it be correct to say the NDS tension "will be whatever it will be" ???...provided the DS tension is correct (130kg in this example) and the wheel is true and dished.
@@Bradbajc yeah. So long as you are above the minimum. It is usually pretty obvious when your spoke lengths are wrong. So much depends on flange diameter, etc.
On a rim brake rear wheel it is common for spoke tension on the non drive side to be about 60% of drive side tension. This can lead to NDS spokes being more susceptible to loss of tension and spoke breakage. Variability in spoke tension is the main problem rather than the actual degree of tension. On NDS spokes I use a drop of Loctite 222, a low strength threadlock that resists spoke loosening by constant vibration. On drive side I smear some Vaseline on the spoke thread
The Park tool is not accurate enough to be precise on this answer, and it doesn’t really need to be as we are talking 1/8th to 1/4 turns on the nipple. The with the tyre on it was clearly below the minimum.
Wait what, final tentioning should be done with tire on ?! I kind of gave up on getting wheel looking PERFECTLY straight when spinning in stand, because even when I trued the wheel to 0.1 it would look perfect, but once I put the tire on... it would never be perfect.
@@Mapdec right. I really like the look of internal (hidden) nipple. But stayed away from it just because I can't true the wheels with tires on when the nipple is not accessible.
Tensioning with a tyre inflated will mean that the tension without a tyre( or with a puncture) is way over the max specified by the component manufacturers. I have had some wheel / tyre combos that lead to a 40% reduction in tension when inflated. I was unhappy about that level of retensioning with an inflated tyre…. comments?
You don’t ride a bike without a tyre on. You won’t stress load a wheel while the tyre is off. If you are below tension with tyre on and rider then on bike your wheel will start to come loose.
Very interesting. I have no more desire to build my own wheels than I have to knit my own parachute! However, thankfully, there are people like you and who can do an excellent job.
It's not that hard if you start with a very basic wheel, i.e. non-disc front wheel (symmetric), basic low-profile double-eyelet aluminum rim, stainless-steel round spokes, brass nipples, 36 spokes, 3-cross interlaced. As long as you get that true and sufficiently tensioned, it's basically fool-proof. What is hard is being reasonably fast at the process, getting the wheel to stay true long-term even if it's ridden hard, choosing the optimal parts to fit together, building a durable wheel with less spokes, and building more complicated wheels where the basic methods don't work out.
The best part of DT swiss is that when I come home from fixing other people's bikes, I do not have to fix my own bike. I have riden my 240's for ages and never replaced a single part.
Yep. The best.
I originally ride Light-bicycle WR50 set. Then just by curiosity, ordered Turbo 50 rim to re-lace on my front wheel.
The WR50 is already 25mm internal but with 32mm external and without the serrated profile.
Turbo 50 at also 25mm internal but with 34.5mm external with that particular profile ride significantly more calm in the crosswind condition. I notice the lack of side push. It's like the wheel disappeared under me that I no longer think about it.
Nice to see the Light Bicycle brand getting some love. I have these same rims on the wheel set built by LB with their hubs and carbon spokes, they look and ride awesome.
What size tire do you run? I’m looking to run 32 or 30mm
@ 30mm GP5000 clinchers with TPU tubes. Tires pump out to about 32mm wide.
@@rickmancini772thanks!
My local wheelbuilder uses Light Carbon rims, and he built me a wheelset this Spring with the Light WR50 rims, Chris King R45D hubs, Sapim CX Ray spokes, and brass nipples. I run GP 5000 AS TR’s in 700x35 tubeless and I’m thrilled with the results. Very fast rolling and I can stay on the bike literally all day long.
Hello! Can you give us a price, please? For reference.
@@Onigure I was in for about $1500 all in for the wheelset built. I ride five days a week on average, and US parts availability and known quality and reliability of components recommended by a plurality of local wheel builders and bike shop mechanics were important to me. The tires were about $90 each.
Hello, I’ve been looking at this setup recently. It would be amazing to see a few images of the wheels?
You missed out on the fun of feeding nipples though the valve hole and using a magnet and steel nipple insert to get them to the spoke hole. The benefit is there's no tubeless tape ever needed it but it was a royal pain in the ass (I had plenty of time during Melbourne lockdown 2020!). I haven't had to replace a spoke in 4 years! I used Light Bicycle AR56 rim brake rims, Pillar bladed spokes, brass nipples (of course!), silver 36 hole shimano hubs (18 spokes front, and 27 spokes in the rear in a 2:1 ratio for nearly the same spoke tension between the DS and NDS). It was a great budget carbon wheel build
I’ve been riding four lightbike builds for the past 5 years. I only have positive things to say. I have the 25 int 32 ext rims with 30mm gp5000s at 60 psi. I’m 80kg and they’re fast and comfortable.
I have the exact same setup completely agree 👍
WR rims? How wide do those 30mm gp5000's measure with 25 internal? I'm thinking of getting the WR40.
@@markusseppala6547 30 > 32 ... Which makes for a pretty flush tyre rim transition.
32 > 34 great to soak up the bumps in the rear.
Great wheels, but maybe a little heavy in 2025
@@markusseppala6547 they measure 32-33 depending on pressure. I have WRs in a few depths and they’ve all been good. My 45s are 1320g on carbon Ti hubs and have been abused for nearly four years now.
I'm about to build a pair of very similar wheelsets using LB rims with DT Swiss 240 hubs and same spokes. Your comments about interlacing the spokes made me run over to my bike. My Princeton Carbon Grit wheels with DT Swiss 240 straight pull hubs and aero spokes have them interlaced. I have not built wheels with straight pull spokes yet, so this was a great video. Well done.
My Grandad used to wheel build for motorcycles and took me to work a few times to help him out, fascinating stuff.
The person who gets this wheelset to ride is very lucky - premium hardware and a careful build.
Great vid. I’m building a set of these wheels soon so I’d be interested in hearing how they ride.
Great video. All my wheel builds are prestressed on a press and checked for trueing with a tire mounting before packing and shipping. In case of spokes overlapping, I pre-torsion spokes against each other at 50% tension before final tension gets applied.
i appreciate the insert to talk about spoke choice. So great points made.
Great video, I learned loads from it having never built any wheels, thanks for posting.
That was a very interesting video. I don't think I will ever be building my own wheels but it is still useful to know how it is done, what tools are required, and not least all the work that goes into it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I thought I might want to give a wheel build a go one day as it seems quite therapeutic. Now I'm not so sure, might send me to an early grave 😂
I dig White Industries hubs for the same reasons I like DTs - ubiquitous parts, easy swap between thru & QR. Great customer service also. Tangentially, I’d love to see case studies/comparisons on wheelsets built with brass nips & cx/ray spokes, as those are always the two constants I stick to when building up a set. Great vid!👏🏻👏🏻
Ahhh wheel truing, my Achilles heel. I gladly pay for that service and marvel at the skills of mechanics that do it well. True artisans 😏.
Recently built a similar pair of wheels with 24mm internal carbon rims from Carbonal, Sapim Cx-Ray spokes and DT-Swiss 350 straight-pull hubs. The parts and tools cost me 832€ instead of 892€ pre-built shipping included. I did however build the wheels using my bike upside-down and eyeballing the dish or sliding my thumb in between the rim-frame/fork interface on each side. I figured I could always go to my community bike workshop if I need a wheel truing stand but I was able to get down to the point where I couldn't ’t see any lateral or radial movement. I've been riding these wheels for a couple months now, including a 500km trip with bike packs and it's all holding up well. The only issue I've encountered is a stripped nipple from overworking the wheel and a lack of stiffness in the front wheel causing slight brake rub when I stand up to sprint. I know it's from the tension being a little low especially on the right side of the front wheel but I'll address this soon. Overall I'm very pleased with this project which has demystified wheel building and would encourage other people to try it out!
Good work. 👍
Great video and detailed building process of cool wheels. Light Bicycle has even wider gravel rims of 44 mm height and 30/40 inner/outer rim width. I would like if they also made 28h serrated pattern rims, to ease finding of matching 110/148 boost hubs.
Why did you choose this particular rotation for the grooves, because manufacturer recommends other direction when bulge hits passing air followed by gradual cutout?
Been riding 55mm Light Bicycle rims in summer since 2015 on 18/24 Shimano Ultegra hubs and CX Rays and have been bomb proof. Some cheap sacrificial Wiggle brake pads and they have lasted forever
27:00 "There's certainly more flex". For anybody interested: More flex by lower tensioned spokes doesn't mean there'll be any less stiffness in the wheel. As long as no spokes are slack or near slack you'll have your stiffness for that build.
The will rattle loose though
@@Mapdec Minimum 50kgf will stop that. The point I tried to make was that 100 or 50kgf won't make much of a difference. You could mess up your spoke nipples if you mess around too much. Create extra work just to satisfy an ocd. 😁 On triplet hubs it's super easy though. You don't have that low tensioned NDS side to worry about.
Stunning wheelset! Too much wide for my bike, but stunning.
Looks good. I'd go with some Hutchinson Blackbirds as a homage to the aero is everything
Another great video. You guys don't fail.
thank you for all the info.. waiting for the same wheel on 40mm .. great wheels. I already have the ar25 with carbon spokes.. crazy light at reasonable price
Great video nice wheels I hope they ride a well as they look!
Great content, as usual.
Happy to see the dials,
wish you would destress on a surface other than the ground to avoid marking the hub face interfacing the frame later on.
before the app, we would keep notes on paper, this is needed for any beginner, it helps learning when to stop.
please show people to weight balance the wheels to avoid hight speed wobble, it does make a huge difference going down mountains, braking and turning.
I'm looking for other weight materials than lead theese days, I wish I'd find zink or tungsten stickers.
The ground here is carpet. Softest around. I have tried balancing. I just found my the time you add valves, sealant, that sealant dries a bit, etc. It makes zero difference
Excellent value by the looks of it…..wheels looks class. They would be superb on a racey gravel bike with 38mm tyres 👊
Very similar to the WR50, which I enjoy better than my Enve 4.5 - the DT180 hubs being a significant contributing factor.
I’m considering these wheels for my Canyon Endurace.
i've ridden on light bicycle wheels for over 5 years and only ever broken 1 super light gravel rim from a rock.
Currently using their wr50 rims and ar25 on bitex hubs :)
Interesting to hear that you've been using light bicycle rims. I was actually looking at the falcon pro wg44 (38mm external) to use with pro one 38 tires on a sort of road plus endurance bike that I'm already using 32mm external gravel wheels on. I don't see how it's not the future for people that just want to be comfortable and fast at the cost of some weight and steering precision.
Welcome to proper wide road wheels. Been using Token G33 on my road bike for years, with 30mm road tyres. 25.3 mm internal. Super plush and grippy.
also, during the dummy check worth making sure the valve 'looks' at the 180 DT logo of the hub :-)
I had Lightbicycle for wide inner width rims last year, but they had none in the pro version. Had to go with Farsports. Compared to standard narrow rims, I am not sure if the wide inner width makes the wheels feel more stable.
Looking forward to your ride review video (especially in cross winds) because I'm planning to get these wheels within next 3 months to have more deeper & stable wheels before my next half IM.
I ordered these with the DT 240 EXP a few months ago. Can confirm that delivery takes FOREVER but seem like a good deal price wise!
Did you get them yet? How do they look and ride ?
Madpec, 25mm wide internal is the feature! I run same width wheels on my ADHX built as a road bike. The tires will me much more stable cornering due to the more straight sidewall.
trying to get my head around 34 external for 32mm tyre? mighty video , smooth presentation
🙏
If you look at a wing profile, the middle is wider than the leading edge...
Very Educational Paul.
Outstanding build and video MAPDEC!
I’ve been planning a similar build with 24h U-shaped 40/45 (F/R) depth rims with 27i/33x widths but was concerned that they’d really only be usable with 32C+ tires. While it is their intended purpose (a gravel wheelset for 35-45C tire use), I’m now rethinking this and perhaps I’ll go with these LB rims to have a 30C road tire option and make the wheels more versatile.
They do look nice too!
You’ve got me thinking about personalized logos as well now… 😄
How did I get you thinking about personal logos 🤷♂️. They make a more gravel CX robust version
I like what you do, I like your videos 🎉🎉🎉
Light bicycle does list those rims for gravel wheels as well
Check out the roval rapide clx ii. They have external width of 35 on the front! Rear wheel is only 30.7 external. 21mm internal so would make tire more 'true to size'.
The front is so weird on those. You can see the rim edge poking out.
6:00 I like the choice of material. Alu nipples not only experience corrosion, you need to be careful when truing them only with high quality tools, otherwise it's easy to chew through them and they get rounded easily.
£1500, good lord I wish I could afford a full bike at that price, let alone a wheelset. Regardless, absolutely stunning bit of kit. Thanks so much for sharing - particularly in my case as someone new to the process of building my own wheels. It was most interesting that you re-check tension after mounting tires. Thus far I've been deflating tires before adjusting tension, thinking that the tubes and tires might interfere - particularly as old tires so often seem to rarely sit completely parallel on the rim. I'll definitely give it a go with pressure next time.
You’ll be quite shocked how much tension is lost. More so on deeper carbon wheels.
Maybe I’m pretty forward thinking with products but I thought 25mm IW rims are pretty common place these days, reserve, enve and zipp all having 25mm wide rim within there catalogue. So much so you’re now starting to see tier manufacturers release tiers specifically designed for wider rims, Goodyear and zip being a prime example along with enve’s race day range and Vittorias soon I’m sure to be released 29mm corsa pros. I ride on the out outgoing 40/44 reserve road wheels to great effect.
As for brass v alloy nipples, well alloy need a little more tlc but Ive yet to in 15 years snap alloy nipples, a little water and WD 40 neutralises the corrosion after a salty ride, and you just have to make sure you really wash the bike down.
Sure. Zipp and Enve have been on 25mm TSS for a while. Only Roval and Syncros went TC at 25mm fairly recently and now the smalller brands following.
I feel more confident when cornering on wide rims 🤷🏻♂ and all my bikes have wider than usual rim widths. It's a topic interesting to observe how it changes in the future.
Maybe not the wisest choice for comfort as tires do need to flex on sidewalls, but it's slightly compensated by the wide tires.
303 Firecrest for road (25mm), Nukeproof Neutron non-boost MTB for e-gravel (28mm), Prime Orra 650b for all-road / gravel (26mm), and the Tern Orox original set (35mm). All hookless, not the reason I chose these rims for, but they do make the tires even wider.
Seems like the gravel/road world has a diffent view on rim width vs tyre width than mtb. In the mtb world 25mm rims are used for up to 2.4-2.5” tyres (the ex471 remains top choice in the dh circuit) where they see a LOT more cornering forces but the carcasses are generally tougher.
So final wheel truing with the tire on the rim and inflated is an interesting concept which is different from what I have seen on other wheel building videos.
I've built over 200+ wheels for the shop I work at and I've noticed this a lot depending on what rims are being used. Weaker/cheaper rims like WTB i23s or DT R460s will lose a lot of tension after a tire is installed. Sometimes needing an additional 2 turns of tension. Great to see that Mapdec is mentioning this!
@@aldenfollett3843 Are spoke tension settings from the wheel manufacturers based on empty rims or rims with inflated tires? A similar issue occurs with fastener torque setting for dry fasteners even though applying anti-seize lubricant is recommended which requires reducing torque by 20%. Confusing.
Generally, max spoke tension recommendations from rim manufacturers are given without tyres and do account for a certain tension drop once a tire is mounted and inflated.
Non interlaced is vreat on rear wheel. It gives a extra suspension stress on the rear wheel. Most specialy the weigth of riders are more at the rear wheel.. interlaced locks wiggling or vibration and gives a very stiff and tough rear wheel. Good choice.. . That wide rear wheel seems for gravel.. more great for gravel wheel tunning..
Avsolutly loved the video, full of information. I do have a lot of (newbie) questions though:
1. What, no dishing tool necessary? For me when I built my old 3 cross 32 or 36 spokes, it helped to use a dishing tool so that I don't go astray at some point.
2. I would have like to know what is the difference in tension between the non-drive and the drive side spokes at ten end. And what is an acceptable difference? Do they all have to sit in construtor limits (non drive side sometimes end up a bit too loose compared to my drive side I think, maybe too much)
3. I would have like you to show how you select the actual spoke length for both non-drive and drive side
4. I saw you adding the lubricant at the base of the nipples. I would have thought more natural to put it at the jonction betwern the spoke and the nipple.
5. Any preferred brand for the brass nipples or the one in a big box on amazon will just do.
6. I just loved the advise to take our time and to enjoy the process. It's been a few years that I do bike mechanics as a hubby and to enjoy the process has been key for me. It helped me to undersrand more, visualise more and to come up with solutions more.
Mmm what else?
Thank you!
(And maybe another video would help to cover all these points, although it mainly usefull for debutants only, but i think that there plenty of debutants watching this video. No a lot of people are good atbbuilding wheel just as a hubby....
Crikey. Yes. Keep watching. I’ll cover those at some point. If your trying stand is set up well the dishing tool is just there as a last minute 2nd opinion on the dish.
That's a sick looking bike. The wheels look sweet. Be really interested to hear how they ride.
Coming soon. Waiting for the frame to arrive to reval the test set.
Spokes are never in compression so flexibility does not matter - it’s stretch characteristics that affect how stiff the wheel feels.
Man those wheels add bling to the bike. Definitely. I am in the process of buying two set of identical wheels and I am *was torn between these in size 65mm with 240 hubs and the GR1600 that you happened to have also reviewed. I did all the checkout procedure calculating the taxes on the website... And you know what? two pair of these will cost me about 2800 Euros and two pair of GR1600 will cost me around one thousand euro with discs. Me and the bike usually weight one hundred kilos when I am riding. I am 31 years old, lean, muscular and life is beautiful even if I have the CDA of a delivery truck. I certainly plan to travel a lot for Iron Man 70.3 races (as an amateur with clip on bars on a Canyon Inflite or Canyon Grizl) and in June I plan to race the full Iron Man in Klagenfurt... Considering I have an FTP of 283 watts, how much speed do you think I'll lose on the flat with the GR1600 compared to the LB 65mm? Thank you for the well-polished video and the advice on wheel building.
Those are 2 very different wheelset. 😮. For a 70.3. Go aero.
@@Mapdec Thank you very much! I am not really worried for the 70.3. I am worried for the Full Ironman because times do stack up and if I need to walk the marathon because I got an injury or I don't feel well I want to be able to do it without the shame of getting kicked out because out of time.
Xiamen carbon speed can do a 50mm depth 33mm outer width 26mm inner in raw finish at 390g now (using T1100). 80g on rims is substantial. I think that gloss finish may be costing 40 or 50g.
Really? I cant find competing product from XCS. Even if they do have one, LB gives 5y warranty on their rims, XCS only 1y.
@@TenSapphires and btw for these OEM guys, best to contact them, most of the time their website is at best an afterthought. They make stuff for high street brands, and these brands don't order off the website. I myself email RFPs whenever I want stuff, and I'm not even a brand.
I think there's a point where fit and finish is just done. The difference is completely cosmetic so I usually just go for as good as it functionally gets and leave worrying about the finer points to Hambini and Peak.
The maximum pressure for 30mm tires on TSS rims is 65 psi, according to ETRTO. Only for 28mm or lower it is 72.5 psi.
Good job these are TC with a max of 80psi
25 internal... Sounds like tubeless may be a little easier to install now... Maybe I am wrong. I got my last hubs built with j-pull. I understand this is a better way to go over straight pull, especially for mountain biking and gravel.
I'm really considering those rims. The internal and external width are similar to enves pog is riding at tdf and hey I don't really know if 25 internal is that important but the fat external width is absolutely needed if you want to properly shade a 30mm tire. I guess I'll ride with 28 because they'll probably end at 30 given internal width.
The biggest issue here is lack of testing. Does this shape makes any sense ? I have no clues.
It works great for stability, very sceptical about how fast it is tho
Could you discuss how they would be or not be appropriate for gravel?
Not appropriate for gravel. Just a category 1 rating.
@@Mapdec thanks
24-25mm internal width is quite common in 2024, perfect for 28-32 mm tire, awesome comfort and performance, why not?
Regarding Aluminum versus Brass Nipples: A decade ago, was a bicycle mechanic running a road and triathlon bicycle shop in Los Angeles and it was extremely common to a have aluminum nipples freeze, corrode so that they would not move, on carbon wheels where the customer lived or trained right next to the ocean. I have been told that the root problem is a galvanic reaction between the carbon fiber in the rim and the aluminum nipples, a reaction that is accelerated by the salt in the ocean environment. I would have expected bicycle manufacturers to have developed a system, some sort of composite washer, whereby a non-conductive material isolates the aluminum nipple from the carbon fiber weave of the rim.
Correct. And yep, people still care more about weight for price than the opportunity of your wheels collapsing due to corrosion. I know right !
Good to know that there are people in the world who can do this..as I do not ever wish to lace wheel! :(
Please do a video on building road wheels and and pros and cons of 1:1 arrangement vs 2:1 for example 16-8 spokes. I currently ride FFWD Ryot44 (Disk) 2:1 and have about 15,000 miles without issue. Both sides are crossed. I see high end DTSwiss road wheels and the ones your building here have same count each side. Is one better then the other? Every way I look at it the 2:1 is better but if that was true why hasn't it become the standard so I might be missing something.
The only advantage is weight loss and when most buying decisions are price/ weight. a few grams of spokes matter. You only really see other spoke arrangements on prebuilt wheels. They are there as sales gimmicks to look cool or reduce spoke count for weight saving.
Very interested in these. Are you close to releasing your review? If they have a Black Friday sale I'm likely to order if you endorse them. I'm in for the DT240 with brass
Probably next spring time now.
Regarding lightbicycle I've had mostly good experience with them. I broke a xc mtb rim but I broke name brand mtb rim too.
20:49 My wheel-building friend explicitly told me to not do this as he said there would be 80kg going through the hub bearing axially. It's not designed to take it, and it would trash it. Any truth in that?
lol. You should see how much force they apply in a factory. 80kg isn’t really enough to destress. A proper machine would be more like 100kg.
Great video!
I have a similar set of lb wheels, 50mm wheels with 25mm internal, dt hubs and sapim spokes.
They ride great with 30mm tubeless tires!
What's your take on carbon spokes?
Are you going to load a video of these wheels being ridden plus thoughts afterwards?
Sadly they are not ours to ride.
Crikey my mountain bike rims (DT EX471) are 25mm internal and are shod with 2.4" trail tyres.
About those truing stand adapters for thru axles, I've just been using my thru axle through the hub as a way to put them in the stand. In my case the larger OD portions of the axles are long enough to keep the wheel properly aligned and solid in the stand. What am I missing or what's a compelling reason I'd consider getting the adapters?
The axle method can walk and you just need to keep checking it hasn’t shifted as you build
Hiya, apprentice mechanic here. I currently have a job in for a two-wheel build for a customer using Hope hubs, Dt rims, and J-Bend spokes for a fancy computer (double panniers, etc.). The customer asked the difference between spoke patterns, and after an explanation and recommendation, they chose to go for two-cross wheels. My question is, do you guys build many two-cross wheels, and if so, what applications do you recommend them in?
Keep up the great videos, always excited to learn something new when I see one comes out!
General rule is 2x for 24 or 28 hole. 3x for 32 and 36 hole.
Double panniers (when loaded) and 2 cross?
Double panniers suggests plenty spokes plenty crosses
Doesn't add up , you say you gave the customer an explanation on spoke patterns,yet go on to ask here, unravel that mystery for all.
@@0-60.tests.with.Passengers the reason why is I'm still learning. I have passed my qualification only a few months ago but have only built a handful of wheels to be ridden and dozens more for practice. I know the benefits and disadvantages of different spoke types and lacing patterns on paper but I have not gathered the experience of these guys who have built thousands so this is a good place to ask
Did you check on the eventual measured width of the mounted tyres?
Yes. It’s in the vid. 👍
The 3T exploro had 22mm internal rims and very sus hubs, wheels came instantly out of true I took the opportunity and made myself a Frankenstein set with 370 ratchet ln straight pull hubs featuring "ryet" 25mm internal carbon rim from ali, yes 😅, I used DT comp spokes with squorxs nipples that are probably worth more than the ali rims, cuz logics 🤷
I did stress them a lot, 78 kilos of stress, many times. I had my doubts but they hold true and didn't explode about 200km in...
LB website lists these as CX/Gravel, FYI, not road as you state at 2:22
These are the new Turbo version for road and gravel. Cat 1. There is a non turbo. AR version of the Falcon for CX etc. Cat 2.
What wears out on the tension gauges that makes them unusable?
The springs.
I've built my own wheels for a couple of decades now, mostly mountain bike wheels but about 6 road sets. The one step I have never done is that final truing with the tires mounted on the rim. Makes sense that the tires pressure compresses the rim but the guys who taught me how to build wheels never did this step. I've only seen two videos where this was done and yours is one of them and both videos were Brits. Must be a British thing I'm guessing.
More a carbon thing. Alu rims don’t suffer it as much.
Loved this, Especially as I'm thinking of using these rims and some Bontrager RSL hubs. Which finish did you order for the rims, and which warranty do you recommend please?
A long warranty on this sort of thing is always a bit pointless in my opinion as it’s not really enforceable and in that time these rims will be long discontinued. I think these were the basic gloss finish
Beautiful wheels but they are quite wide 🤔. Anyway, love a lacing vid ❤
How did you get those TLR RS on that rim so easily. Only tire I’ve ever needed a glider/lever to install.
Do the valve section last. Ease it in.
Where do you find LB wheels cat. ratings?
@mapdec Is there a potential issue of bringing the tension up to spec with tyre on, that the spokes will *over tension* in the case of a puncture/flat?
Maybe, but I would rather my spokes be tight when I am actually riding.
Have you measured the tension increase without the compression of the tyre?
Sometimes. If a wheel has lost a lot of tension with a tyre on and I adjust it, I will sanity check with tyre deflated.
Thanks :) Curious on the data - love your all-in approach!
Would such a large/long valve put the wheel out of balance? (Would a shorter valve be better?)
Balancing a wheel is pointless. Tubeless fluid etc. it’s less than a gram of difference between a 60mm valve and a 70mm valve.
So would wheels with hidden nipples, which require the tyre off for truing, essentially hinder them in terms of being able to ensure they are at the right tension with a tyre on?
Yeah. When built in a factory wheels have a load applied by machine. It’s very hard to build internal nipples tight enough at home. When I do it in the workshop I often have to put my weight on the rim on the floor to tighten.
Great video. Must say light bicycle is doing a terrible job at marketing these turbo wheels.
So, now that you have a bit of experience builing wheels on Light Bicycle rims, would you recommand them ? Tenting looks pretty bad, but drillings looks pretty good on this model.
For the money, they are ok.
@@Mapdecin that Chinese category what is better in similar size?
No Berd spokes yet? For gravel of course!
I have ridden some, but haven’t built a set yet.
I have a question, what good univeral wheel hub beariny removal and press do you guys use/recommend that'll work for most wheel hubs?
I don’t think these is such a thing. I would just get a press from Ali express and a slide hammer kit from Amazon. Make sure you get one that goes down to 9mm. Then just get the specialist tools you might need for your hubs.
@@MapdecOkayy great thanks for the advice I appreciate you responding. I love your videos and am an avid watcher keep up the great work looking forward to the next video love the detail to workmanship👌🏾
Please, can someone explain me. Why is it after installing a tire insert, the tire gets wobbel in it? It's doesn't matter cushcore or vittoria airliner.
The best thing about DT is that you probably don't even have to buy any spare parts for them in a decade.
do you need to oil the thread of the spokes when building a wheel? or it is not necessary?
Yes. We buy custom cut spokes and they come oiled up from the threading process
Great video! When you refer to 120-130 kg of force. Is this the drive side only? What about the non drive side?
Great Q. The NDS will generally take care of itself if your spoke lengths are correct. Refer to the spoke spec for min tensions and keep it above that.
@@Mapdec Thanks Mapdec. Would it be correct to say the NDS tension "will be whatever it will be" ???...provided the DS tension is correct (130kg in this example) and the wheel is true and dished.
@@Bradbajc yeah. So long as you are above the minimum. It is usually pretty obvious when your spoke lengths are wrong. So much depends on flange diameter, etc.
On a rim brake rear wheel it is common for spoke tension on the non drive side to be about 60% of drive side tension. This can lead to NDS spokes being more susceptible to loss of tension and spoke breakage. Variability in spoke tension is the main problem rather than the actual degree of tension. On NDS spokes I use a drop of Loctite 222, a low strength threadlock that resists spoke loosening by constant vibration. On drive side I smear some Vaseline on the spoke thread
I was wondering how many kilo's lower the tension was with the tire and did you bring it up to a 130 kilo's with the tire on?
The Park tool is not accurate enough to be precise on this answer, and it doesn’t really need to be as we are talking 1/8th to 1/4 turns on the nipple. The with the tyre on it was clearly below the minimum.
Wait what, final tentioning should be done with tire on ?! I kind of gave up on getting wheel looking PERFECTLY straight when spinning in stand, because even when I trued the wheel to 0.1 it would look perfect, but once I put the tire on... it would never be perfect.
Yep. On a carbon rim you loose a lot of tension.
@@Mapdec Interesting, thanks for the reply!
@@Mapdec right. I really like the look of internal (hidden) nipple. But stayed away from it just because I can't true the wheels with tires on when the nipple is not accessible.
Where do you get the tensionometre calibrated?
We do them. You can easily make a jig with a frame and scales.
Tensioning with a tyre inflated will mean that the tension without a tyre( or with a puncture) is way over the max specified by the component manufacturers. I have had some wheel / tyre combos that lead to a 40% reduction in tension when inflated. I was unhappy about that level of retensioning with an inflated tyre…. comments?
You don’t ride a bike without a tyre on. You won’t stress load a wheel while the tyre is off. If you are below tension with tyre on and rider then on bike your wheel will start to come loose.
Balloon tires on an aero beach bike.
So after how many kms riding would you check these again?
Just at the next service.
I'm thinking of selling my P and K Lie as I'm not building wheels these days, am I mad. Should I keep it as an ornament or paperweight instead ?.
I have it!