I recently had my retirement home completely renovated, basically from the studs on up. All new plumbing, HVAC, etc. I had worked with the electrical contractor specifying 14 gauge/15 amp circuits for the lighting, and 12 gauge/20 amp circuits for all receptacles. For my home theater/listening room I specified three 10 gauge/30 amp circuits, all running off the same phase to eliminate differential voltages between any of the equipment. All new grounding and all copper from the meter into the breaker panels, as well as a Generac 22 kW generator for the whole house. I have zero hum on my systems (home theater and stereo), and have had plenty of power available for my Classe 300 watt/channel amp and subwoofer (500 watts each) amps. The electrical contractor had no problem running the circuits and was very cooperative, unlike some I’ve heard about who question the homeowner when he wants something out of the ordinary. I already had the 10 gauge Romeo from redoing a home theater/listening room in my previous house, so there was no difference in having it done the way I wanted since labor to run the wiring would have been the same had I used 12 gauge. I use mainly Nordost power cords for my sources and preamp, all running off a Shunyata Hydra feeding off one the 30 amp receptacles. The amp and subwoofers are plugged straight into the 30 amp receptacles.
Just a thought - I’m not an _”audiophile”,_ per se, but I do have a degree in electrical engineering. If I were designing audiophile components from a clean slate, I might well eliminate the separate AC to DC power supplies within each component. Instead, I might design a pseudo-standard _”power bus”_ to feed them all. Automotive audiophiles do it at 12 volts, but maybe something higher would work better. I would design a really nice DC power supply that would feed a *ROBUST* bank of _super capacitors,_ then use that low voltage DC rail to feed various components directly at that voltage, probably through thick cables that could be the size of a car battery cable. It *SOUNDS* like it should work … (Or am I _"re-inventing the wheel"_ here?)
Have all the stone removed from that post, run PVC conduit and 8 gauge wire, then have all the stone put back. no biggie for a place like that. Looks like the run will be over 40 feet, better to step up to 8 awg wire (40-60 feet) if more than 60 feet use 6 awg wire. Maybe there is a short cut, up and over through an attic space?
Yeah aliminum wires and bar cheap trash. Copper a lot more expensive but better. Luckily where I put my system I had not even looked at the breaker box so when they came to put in separate breakers I had a really nice panel put in to begin with.
I'm listening to the wonderful tour of all the electrical panels and I'm listening to background humming maybe from some HVAC systems it's really quite bad. All the background noise probably penetrates inside the home and basically trumps any effort to have a low noise environment for listening. My guess is he may need to really soundproof a room. Just goes to show you, you can spend millions on a home and the neighbors can interfere with it. Hope he doesn't live next to a pool
It's pretty quiet inside but HVAC can make a lot of noise. I recently put rubber footers on mine outside and it made a huge difference in the noise... Basically used the same thing used for washers and dryers to minimize the vibrations.
I follow what you were saying and power supply is the foundation for everything else. The phrase that's stuck with me is when you said unimpeded power. To me, unimpeded power means that when additional demands Are needed to reproduce very quick and dynamic changes in frequencies there will be nothing interfering with getting these surges of power needed. But then in this day and age we probably do have enough power coming through the outlet to do this and then coupled with Quality capacitors sitting in a preamp and a well designed amplifier the additional surge requirements to me seem satisfied quite well. Elimination of noise along the Power supply would seem to be more important then focusing on unimpeded power, which may or may not be a real issue? If I get another circuit installed I will definitely consider using 10 gauge wiring to ensure adequate flow to power my systems and this may or may not really be necessary but it's something that can easily be done, and maybe of value. Because I have trouble typing due to muscle sensitivity every time I touch the screen I have to dictate this and it came out pretty well. But editing is a pain in the ass cause I have to touch the screen every once in a while.
I used to worry about noise, but then I realized everything gets coverted to DC and most of these power conditioners don't even remove the noise that my meter picks up. On the flip side... Power demands can come in quick bursts that are very large. Most gear can deal with it, but that's the area where performance is most likely going to be evidenced.
Without question, dedicated subpanel feeding the audio system is warranted. (ideally through the attic, exterior on if necessary) I'd examine restructuring the meter load side distribution, and source the subpanel there. Even in very nice homes, electrical rough-in wiring is quite modest in quality. btw; that baseboard outlet he opened up, ... yes, the wire was attached wrap around style on the receptacle screw, but it was turned 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙬𝙧𝙤𝙣𝙜 𝙙𝙞𝙧𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣! (whereas tightening the screw tends to loosen the wire) That illustrates a lot, I'd be suspect of all connections in that place. Connection integrity is vital, it's everything. Safety on one end, performance on the other. As far as the power for the big system, you've got to add up the MBL's requirements. Dedicated circuits for each amplifier, four amplifiers total? Six amplifiers? Plus low level source gear... So at least 5 circuits, likely more. To mitigate voltage drop, if possible upsize each receptacle feed by one size, 10awg for subs, or amplifier loads, no joints, dedicated/isolated home runs. MBL Extremes, that'll be a mammoth, high power system... it's going to need low impedance, high current delivery to each device. Those big powerful moments rendered realistically, with a stiff line voltage, entirely free from I²R losses... even on peaks. So I'd think the dealer needs to spec total circuit requirements, and drop location.
@@AudiophileJunkie I have found that actual watt usage by amplifiers is far less than what people think it is. Has anyone measured the actual Watts used? I think people go nuts thinking they need all these individual circuits when they really don't. Unless you are furnishing sound to A large auditorium you probably don't need that many circuits. I've got lots of gear comfortably driven by a 15 amp circuit. I wish it was 20 but not worth $2000 to get it upgraded.
@@iampuzzleman282 $2k is a lot for sure, but the install of a dedicated circuit, with it's own neutral and ground all the way to the panel, is often a tremendous bang for the buck improvement.
@@FOH3663 thanks appreciate that. I have a transparent power isolator and lots of nice power cords. And my grounding system with a stake in the ground and a new panel install two years ago. I run everything off a 15 amp circuit dedicated to the outlets in one room. Includes a couple 600 W mono blocks and processor and preamp and the flat screen TV, and router and modem. How do I know I need a new circuit that might be helpful?
magnifico.
I recently had my retirement home completely renovated, basically from the studs on up. All new plumbing, HVAC, etc. I had worked with the electrical contractor specifying 14 gauge/15 amp circuits for the lighting, and 12 gauge/20 amp circuits for all receptacles. For my home theater/listening room I specified three 10 gauge/30 amp circuits, all running off the same phase to eliminate differential voltages between any of the equipment. All new grounding and all copper from the meter into the breaker panels, as well as a Generac 22 kW generator for the whole house. I have zero hum on my systems (home theater and stereo), and have had plenty of power available for my Classe 300 watt/channel amp and subwoofer (500 watts each) amps. The electrical contractor had no problem running the circuits and was very cooperative, unlike some I’ve heard about who question the homeowner when he wants something out of the ordinary. I already had the 10 gauge Romeo from redoing a home theater/listening room in my previous house, so there was no difference in having it done the way I wanted since labor to run the wiring would have been the same had I used 12 gauge. I use mainly Nordost power cords for my sources and preamp, all running off a Shunyata Hydra feeding off one the 30 amp receptacles. The amp and subwoofers are plugged straight into the 30 amp receptacles.
Just a thought - I’m not an _”audiophile”,_ per se, but I do have a degree in electrical engineering. If I were designing audiophile components from a clean slate, I might well eliminate the separate AC to DC power supplies within each component. Instead, I might design a pseudo-standard _”power bus”_ to feed them all. Automotive audiophiles do it at 12 volts, but maybe something higher would work better.
I would design a really nice DC power supply that would feed a *ROBUST* bank of _super capacitors,_ then use that low voltage DC rail to feed various components directly at that voltage, probably through thick cables that could be the size of a car battery cable.
It *SOUNDS* like it should work … (Or am I _"re-inventing the wheel"_ here?)
Have all the stone removed from that post, run PVC conduit and 8 gauge wire, then have all the stone put back. no biggie for a place like that. Looks like the run will be over 40 feet, better to step up to 8 awg wire (40-60 feet) if more than 60 feet use 6 awg wire. Maybe there is a short cut, up and over through an attic space?
check out this article on house power for audio:
msb technology faq house-power
Yeah aliminum wires and bar cheap trash. Copper a lot more expensive but better. Luckily where I put my system I had not even looked at the breaker box so when they came to put in separate breakers I had a really nice panel put in to begin with.
I'm listening to the wonderful tour of all the electrical panels and I'm listening to background humming maybe from some HVAC systems it's really quite bad. All the background noise probably penetrates inside the home and basically trumps any effort to have a low noise environment for listening. My guess is he may need to really soundproof a room. Just goes to show you, you can spend millions on a home and the neighbors can interfere with it. Hope he doesn't live next to a pool
It's pretty quiet inside but HVAC can make a lot of noise. I recently put rubber footers on mine outside and it made a huge difference in the noise... Basically used the same thing used for washers and dryers to minimize the vibrations.
mini splits are great. If noise is an issue, close off HVAC to that room and have a mini split installed (heat pump). Mitsubishi makes good ones.
I've got one. They still have an outdoor unit, but usually much quieter. I like mine, but not for everybody.
I follow what you were saying and power supply is the foundation for everything else. The phrase that's stuck with me is when you said unimpeded power. To me, unimpeded power means that when additional demands Are needed to reproduce very quick and dynamic changes in frequencies there will be nothing interfering with getting these surges of power needed. But then in this day and age we probably do have enough power coming through the outlet to do this and then coupled with Quality capacitors sitting in a preamp and a well designed amplifier the additional surge requirements to me seem satisfied quite well. Elimination of noise along the Power supply would seem to be more important then focusing on unimpeded power, which may or may not be a real issue? If I get another circuit installed I will definitely consider using 10 gauge wiring to ensure adequate flow to power my systems and this may or may not really be necessary but it's something that can easily be done, and maybe of value.
Because I have trouble typing due to muscle sensitivity every time I touch the screen I have to dictate this and it came out pretty well. But editing is a pain in the ass cause I have to touch the screen every once in a while.
I used to worry about noise, but then I realized everything gets coverted to DC and most of these power conditioners don't even remove the noise that my meter picks up.
On the flip side... Power demands can come in quick bursts that are very large. Most gear can deal with it, but that's the area where performance is most likely going to be evidenced.
This seems like a nightmare to deal with.
It's not easy for sure... However, it's actually a bigger nightmare if you don't deal with it ahead of time.
make sure to Thermo-Weld wire to grounding rods for best ground
Without question, dedicated subpanel feeding the audio system is warranted.
(ideally through the attic, exterior on if necessary)
I'd examine restructuring the meter load side distribution, and source the subpanel there.
Even in very nice homes, electrical rough-in wiring is quite modest in quality.
btw; that baseboard outlet he opened up, ... yes, the wire was attached wrap around style on the receptacle screw, but it was turned 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙬𝙧𝙤𝙣𝙜 𝙙𝙞𝙧𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣! (whereas tightening the screw tends to loosen the wire)
That illustrates a lot, I'd be suspect of all connections in that place.
Connection integrity is vital, it's everything. Safety on one end, performance on the other.
As far as the power for the big system, you've got to add up the MBL's requirements.
Dedicated circuits for each amplifier, four amplifiers total?
Six amplifiers?
Plus low level source gear...
So at least 5 circuits, likely more.
To mitigate voltage drop, if possible upsize each receptacle feed by one size, 10awg for subs, or amplifier loads, no joints, dedicated/isolated home runs.
MBL Extremes, that'll be a mammoth, high power system... it's going to need low impedance, high current delivery to each device.
Those big powerful moments rendered realistically, with a stiff line voltage, entirely free from I²R losses... even on peaks.
So I'd think the dealer needs to spec total circuit requirements, and drop location.
Yeah we got a lot of people on the job making sure everything will be optimal. It's a major project.
@@AudiophileJunkie I have found that actual watt usage by amplifiers is far less than what people think it is. Has anyone measured the actual Watts used? I think people go nuts thinking they need all these individual circuits when they really don't. Unless you are furnishing sound to A large auditorium you probably don't need that many circuits. I've got lots of gear comfortably driven by a 15 amp circuit. I wish it was 20 but not worth $2000 to get it upgraded.
@@iampuzzleman282
$2k is a lot for sure, but the install of a dedicated circuit, with it's own neutral and ground all the way to the panel, is often a tremendous bang for the buck improvement.
@@iampuzzleman282
"watt usage by amplifiers"
Are you referring how much they draw from the circuit/panel?
@@FOH3663 thanks appreciate that. I have a transparent power isolator and lots of nice power cords. And my grounding system with a stake in the ground and a new panel install two years ago. I run everything off a 15 amp circuit dedicated to the outlets in one room. Includes a couple 600 W mono blocks and processor and preamp and the flat screen TV, and router and modem. How do I know I need a new circuit that might be helpful?