Sounds great. Id say for the higher gain stuff you're 90-95% there. Seems like maybe it needs some more push, slightly hotter pickups, or a clean boost etc but it definitely sounds nice!
i dont think in the studio he would have used more gain than that, if it sounds bigger on the album it probably comes the bass and post processing, not gain.. the tone is so close to the original that the extra 5-10 percent is irrelevant.
@@jojo-qu1qj I'm not that familiar with studio outboard gear. But would that gain or grit come from like compressors or saturators or something like that?
@@mmaviator22 they usually don't add gain from what i understand they just add guitar tracks to the recording to make it sound bigger which would make it sound like there is more gain than there actually is...
@@mmaviator22 if you are trying to replicate this tone in your bedroom though you would obviously use more gain.. you can never make an amp sound exactly the same as a studio recording, one reason why is they are recorded with a mic at different angles..
Bud. Those big open D chords and the individual notation on 7empest is SO spot on to the album tone and his live tone. It's got that mid "snarl" along with that sag. Is the diesel modded in nay way? Hadn't read the description
Super interesting. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Adam use a Marshall bass amp, a dual Rec, and the VH4? A lot of people have told me his high gain crunch is mostly the Diezel. The amp I can’t afford haha. Great tone brother. I use a bogner shiva with a rat or a klon klone and it’s far from perfect but it’s a nice enough sound by itself to be fun. The bogner has a ton of low mids. Was impressed by your clean sound for Lateralus. I think his tones on undertow are a lot more easily achievable than Lateralus. Plus, we have to keep in mind that studio tones are not live tones. They aren’t just micing the cab, there’s a lot of eq and compression being added after recording. My opinion is that if you really learn the part perfectly, not just learn it, be able to play it in your sleep, if you can even get close to the sound in a live band setting you are going to be just fine. If you can’t play it through a Crate amp correctly a Diezel will not help you.
This is more so the live tone. The studio tones are a lot more blended and yes a lot more going on, plus what you think you are hearing is really just there to fit the mix and drums/bass etc. the isolated guitars will probably sound a bit different to what you think. Undertow was the plexi and a dual rectifier. His Marshall I believe is a super bass converted to lead spec, they are very similar just some different component values. The VH4 is probably most of the tone, the plexi is there to add some brightness and bite back. If you play both amps you will understand why. The VH4 is very dark and compressed. I already sold it because I don't really use that much gain most of the time, and I find it a little dark to be useful in recordings by itself, I got better results with the Marshalls. Funnily I was actually just looking at a Shiva for sale nearby on marketplace and seriously thinking about it, before I just saw the notification here. I did already "replace" the VH4 with a Suhr Hombre though. I generally prefer vintage style amps now.
@@BigRiffsRigs wow thanks for the quick response my friend! I used to work at guitar center but I was a low level grunt, so I never got to play the VH4 we had. It sounds like I probably would not love it by itself. If it is that dark, what do you think he is using to brighten up his tone nowadays? Just studio processing or possibly the Mesa duel Rec? I have never really thought of that as an overly bright amp, but I guess I could see it, mark Tremonti (the man who sold thousands of duel Recs) certainly doesn’t have a dark tone. I’m right there with you about vintage amps, I play hard rock, but the hardest rock I play is Tool. And that’s not pure metal tone. I don’t need an Uberschall or an ENGL. and I completely agree with you about studio tones by themselves sounding way different than you interpret on the recording. Billy Howerdel’s tone on the first two APC albums is a favorite of mine but if you hear him demo it without the band it’s like “wtf that sounds awful”. Same thing with so many of Jimmy page’s guitar parts. I’m pretty sure Billy was playing a modified Friedman on those records which was basically a supercharged Marshall voiced for lower tunings. Just listening to the record you don’t realize your perception of his tone is totally influenced by the rest of the mix, particularly James Iha’s parts. And their bass tone is phenomenal. I love my Shiva. It’s a classic combo with EL-34’s. 80 watts. It can’t do high gain like the 20th anniversary. But if you want vintage tones? Oh man, it’s amazing. It’s really similar to a JCM800 but with less gain and more smoothness. I am not a great guitar player, but I do view it as a real “players” amp. The only issue is volume. You don’t get Shiva tone unless your neighbors are angry at you. But if you really crank it, you can absolutely get “appetite” tones. But you have to get it with volume, it is heavier at a higher volume with less gain than it is at a lower volume with more gain. At low volume I will boost my klon klone (built it from a kit, my favorite overdrive) with my TS9 with gain and tone flat and volume maxed into the dirty channel with gain set at about 11 o’clock. So guitar to TS9 as a boost for the klone into the dirty channel. At higher volumes I don’t need much (the amp has a boost function but I try to avoid it because it’s just too easy to use all the time and that’s not the purpose of a boost). The klone is easily the best overdrive for this amp. I have a Bluesbreaker (also built from a kit), the TS9, and the klone. Nothing compares to the klone. It retains the character of the amp but it’s just richer harmonically. I test most overdrives with the intro to “Alive” by Pearl Jam. Open strings mixed with playing a bit up on the fretboard. The Shiva can do it but holy shit, you turn that klone on and it’s heaven.
@@mattlawson714 yes I really like klones too. I have a rimrock which I use all the time, probably my favourite pedal. Adam uses the plexi with the vh4 precisely to add brightness and bite.
@@BigRiffsRigs I apologize for my long winded responses. I just love this stuff. I am curious what other amp I could possibly get to complement my Bogner Shiva. I have jammed with a good friend with an Orange 50 watt rockerverb and wow! Playing in unison is gorgeous. But if I play rhythm and he plays lead? It’s the perfect two guitar sound. Even if we switch and he plays the neck pickup for rhythm and I play the bridge pickup for lead… it still sounds amazing. Two amazing tube amps cooking with two decent players will always sound good. I don’t know if it has ever been done before on a record but a darker Bogner Shiva with more note clarity playing against an Orange with a bit more sponginess and sag is the best combination I’ve ever heard in person. The bogner is tighter, more low mids. But it still sings at volume. The orange is looser. It is still tight in the low end but it sparkles in the high mids. And it has that sag to its tone. My dream set up is my bogner Shiva with an orange rockerverb and a duel rec vintage like ‘95. And if money is not an option a Diezel VH4 for modern gain.
*Instead of selling the VH4, you should have bought EQ pedals for the front and the effects loop. Sculpt to your heart’s content to bring out the highs.*
Sounds great. Id say for the higher gain stuff you're 90-95% there. Seems like maybe it needs some more push, slightly hotter pickups, or a clean boost etc but it definitely sounds nice!
i dont think in the studio he would have used more gain than that, if it sounds bigger on the album it probably comes the bass and post processing, not gain.. the tone is so close to the original that the extra 5-10 percent is irrelevant.
@@jojo-qu1qj I'm not that familiar with studio outboard gear. But would that gain or grit come from like compressors or saturators or something like that?
@@mmaviator22 they usually don't add gain from what i understand they just add guitar tracks to the recording to make it sound bigger which would make it sound like there is more gain than there actually is...
@@mmaviator22 if you are trying to replicate this tone in your bedroom though you would obviously use more gain.. you can never make an amp sound exactly the same as a studio recording, one reason why is they are recorded with a mic at different angles..
Bud. Those big open D chords and the individual notation on 7empest is SO spot on to the album tone and his live tone. It's got that mid "snarl" along with that sag. Is the diesel modded in nay way? Hadn't read the description
Nope it's stock. KT77s
7empest sounds super accurate!
they all sound accurate, that tone is sweet af.
Seymour duncan sh6/ distortion pickups would bring it entirely there. As thats what Adam is using in his Les Paul.
Super interesting. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Adam use a Marshall bass amp, a dual Rec, and the VH4? A lot of people have told me his high gain crunch is mostly the Diezel. The amp I can’t afford haha. Great tone brother. I use a bogner shiva with a rat or a klon klone and it’s far from perfect but it’s a nice enough sound by itself to be fun. The bogner has a ton of low mids. Was impressed by your clean sound for Lateralus. I think his tones on undertow are a lot more easily achievable than Lateralus. Plus, we have to keep in mind that studio tones are not live tones. They aren’t just micing the cab, there’s a lot of eq and compression being added after recording. My opinion is that if you really learn the part perfectly, not just learn it, be able to play it in your sleep, if you can even get close to the sound in a live band setting you are going to be just fine. If you can’t play it through a Crate amp correctly a Diezel will not help you.
This is more so the live tone. The studio tones are a lot more blended and yes a lot more going on, plus what you think you are hearing is really just there to fit the mix and drums/bass etc. the isolated guitars will probably sound a bit different to what you think. Undertow was the plexi and a dual rectifier. His Marshall I believe is a super bass converted to lead spec, they are very similar just some different component values. The VH4 is probably most of the tone, the plexi is there to add some brightness and bite back. If you play both amps you will understand why. The VH4 is very dark and compressed. I already sold it because I don't really use that much gain most of the time, and I find it a little dark to be useful in recordings by itself, I got better results with the Marshalls. Funnily I was actually just looking at a Shiva for sale nearby on marketplace and seriously thinking about it, before I just saw the notification here. I did already "replace" the VH4 with a Suhr Hombre though. I generally prefer vintage style amps now.
@@BigRiffsRigs wow thanks for the quick response my friend! I used to work at guitar center but I was a low level grunt, so I never got to play the VH4 we had. It sounds like I probably would not love it by itself. If it is that dark, what do you think he is using to brighten up his tone nowadays? Just studio processing or possibly the Mesa duel Rec? I have never really thought of that as an overly bright amp, but I guess I could see it, mark Tremonti (the man who sold thousands of duel Recs) certainly doesn’t have a dark tone. I’m right there with you about vintage amps, I play hard rock, but the hardest rock I play is Tool. And that’s not pure metal tone. I don’t need an Uberschall or an ENGL. and I completely agree with you about studio tones by themselves sounding way different than you interpret on the recording. Billy Howerdel’s tone on the first two APC albums is a favorite of mine but if you hear him demo it without the band it’s like “wtf that sounds awful”. Same thing with so many of Jimmy page’s guitar parts. I’m pretty sure Billy was playing a modified Friedman on those records which was basically a supercharged Marshall voiced for lower tunings. Just listening to the record you don’t realize your perception of his tone is totally influenced by the rest of the mix, particularly James Iha’s parts. And their bass tone is phenomenal. I love my Shiva. It’s a classic combo with EL-34’s. 80 watts. It can’t do high gain like the 20th anniversary. But if you want vintage tones? Oh man, it’s amazing. It’s really similar to a JCM800 but with less gain and more smoothness. I am not a great guitar player, but I do view it as a real “players” amp. The only issue is volume. You don’t get Shiva tone unless your neighbors are angry at you. But if you really crank it, you can absolutely get “appetite” tones. But you have to get it with volume, it is heavier at a higher volume with less gain than it is at a lower volume with more gain. At low volume I will boost my klon klone (built it from a kit, my favorite overdrive) with my TS9 with gain and tone flat and volume maxed into the dirty channel with gain set at about 11 o’clock. So guitar to TS9 as a boost for the klone into the dirty channel. At higher volumes I don’t need much (the amp has a boost function but I try to avoid it because it’s just too easy to use all the time and that’s not the purpose of a boost). The klone is easily the best overdrive for this amp. I have a Bluesbreaker (also built from a kit), the TS9, and the klone. Nothing compares to the klone. It retains the character of the amp but it’s just richer harmonically. I test most overdrives with the intro to “Alive” by Pearl Jam. Open strings mixed with playing a bit up on the fretboard. The Shiva can do it but holy shit, you turn that klone on and it’s heaven.
@@mattlawson714 yes I really like klones too. I have a rimrock which I use all the time, probably my favourite pedal. Adam uses the plexi with the vh4 precisely to add brightness and bite.
@@BigRiffsRigs I apologize for my long winded responses. I just love this stuff. I am curious what other amp I could possibly get to complement my Bogner Shiva. I have jammed with a good friend with an Orange 50 watt rockerverb and wow! Playing in unison is gorgeous. But if I play rhythm and he plays lead? It’s the perfect two guitar sound. Even if we switch and he plays the neck pickup for rhythm and I play the bridge pickup for lead… it still sounds amazing. Two amazing tube amps cooking with two decent players will always sound good. I don’t know if it has ever been done before on a record but a darker Bogner Shiva with more note clarity playing against an Orange with a bit more sponginess and sag is the best combination I’ve ever heard in person. The bogner is tighter, more low mids. But it still sings at volume. The orange is looser. It is still tight in the low end but it sparkles in the high mids. And it has that sag to its tone. My dream set up is my bogner Shiva with an orange rockerverb and a duel rec vintage like ‘95. And if money is not an option a Diezel VH4 for modern gain.
Nope, two Diezel VH4s and and Modded Marshall Superbass guitar amp.
*Instead of selling the VH4, you should have bought EQ pedals for the front and the effects loop. Sculpt to your heart’s content to bring out the highs.*
Sounds good, but the delay is not right on Lateralus...too fast!
So what is what?