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U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials 2024 Super Shoe Observations
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- A few interesting super shoe trends and surprises happened in the 2024 U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials.
0:00 Intro
0:40 Nike Alphafly 1 vs Nike Alphafly 3
2:16 Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 3
3:07 Asics Metaspeed Sky 3
4:42 New Balance SC Pacer v2
5:44 A new chapter in the super shoe era
8:43 Outro
labratrundown: Nike Alphafly 1 vs 3 efficiency pC217kEdLq...
Alex Filitti: ASICS doesn't want you to see this (yet) • ASICS doesn't want you...
Adidas Adizero Adios Pro Evo 1 Revisited • Adidas Adizero Adios P...
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Podium Results/Shoes
U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials 2024: Men's results
1. Conner Mantz 2:04:58 CR - Nike Alphafly
2. Clayton Young 2:09:06 - Asics Metaspeed Sky 3 (dev)
3. Leonard Korir 2:09:57 - Nike Alphafly 3
U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials 2024: Women's results
1. Fiona O’Keeffe 2:22:10 - Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 3 (dev)
2. Emily Sisson 2:22:42 - New Balance SC Pacer V2 (dev)
3. Dakotah Lindwurm 2:25:31 - Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 3 (dev)
Disclosures: No one is paying me to make this video and no one has any editorial control over the contents of this video. Additionally, I have no connection into Nike’s, Puma’s, Asics’s or New Balance’s design or marketing process. Everything I cover in this video is my own opinion and experience.
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Instagram: / sagasurunning
Strava: / strava
Subscriber count at time of upload: 4,089
Intro & outro music from Epidemic Sound:
Twostop - By Lotus
www.epidemicsound.com/artists...
🤙🏻
Good to see different brands of shoes winning. Thanks for the vid... i was thinking about all this stuff too.
As I said… I’ll be curious what the global world major podiums look like this year. Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻
What a race that was! Other than Puma, for me another surprise package was Brooks with both CJ Albertson and Zach Panning putting up strong performances, especially the latter who basically set the pace for the eventual winner.
As for Conner Mantz, it wasn't the Alphafly 1 or the Alphafly 3. It was the BYU split shorts ✌🏻
Agree. So many strong performances in both the men’s and women’s fields. A really great event overall. Much different vibe than 2020. Good to see.
Sisson's shoes look like Pacers v1, at least the upper from v1 for sure... really interesting that she didn't race in the v2 that theoretically was made for her stride
They are dev models. From what I read they are v2 geometry midsoles with the new foam but a v1 upper with a dev midsole shape. Closer to v2 a than v1s. Basically there are the models she has been using for the past few months. The SC Pacer v2 has been developed form them basically.
@@SagasuRunning She said in a pod she wasnt comfortable in the final Pacer v2 yet
@jgt1120 Which likely explains why it’s a fall release. It needs a few more cycles it seems.
same happened w hoka they timed up the cielo x 1 to be released on same day & runners mostly wore the rocket x 2
Hoka definitely got their social media splash. But yes, given all the photos I looked through of the race to spot shoes… I don’t think I saw any Cielo X1s out there. Though the Cielo X1 does seem like an extreme shoe (like the Puma Fast-R 2) that will really work for a few people but most will still opt for a Rocket…
I’m looking forward to trying out the Asics ++, Puma Fast R2, and the Adidas Pro Evo 4 this year after watching some reviews.
Adios Pro 4/5 you mean. It’s likely the Evo 1 will stick around for a bit longer.
Conner only "won" the race because Clayton, who was clearly in much better shape at the end of the race, let him go by right at the tape.
Training partners have their own way. Both ran great races.
@@SagasuRunninglooked to me as if both “won” as getting top 2 for either achieved everything both wanted - certain selection.
I feel like they really didn't care. I mean, the goal is the Olympics, so my take is that that goal was the only thing they were worried about.
The rumor I've been seeing is that Connor had a bonus clause for winning in his contract that Clayton didn't.
Sisson's NB were the v1 Pacers. She wears them for all her marathons. The v2 stack is much higher than the one's Sisson had on.
I added this to another comment. What I read is that her shoes were a v1 upper, v2 geometry/foam, dev midsole… so not a v1 or a v2… but closer to a v2.
@@SagasuRunning not convinced by this, I went to her Instagram. Her Orlando shoes look exactly like that of her training and racing shoes even as far back as 2022, which were the v1 Pacers.
I did the same… but they are exact matches for v1s either… those white ones with the black outlines. Again, I am working from what I’ve read from interviews and NB product managers talking about her shoes. 🤷🏼♂️
On a more mundane level I saw all sorts of shoes at my 10K race today. It also reminded me that the runner not the shoes makes nearly all the difference these days as I ran poorly in my VF3.
Agreed. I ran a 10K PR in my Endorphin Pro 3s, but a guy in the half marathon set a WR for a runner dressed as Buddy the Elf in a pair of Endorphin Speed 2s. I also saw someone wearing a pair of Adidas Boston 8s. Such a wide range of shoe options today and great to get back out racing again, been a year and a half.
Agreed. The last road race I saw here was won by some Ons, with lots of VF2s and Metaspeeds.
Oh… Boston 8s…. Don’t tease me.
@@SagasuRunning club mate (albeit somewhat younger) edged me in a pair of Peg 39s in a 10 mile race last summer and I ran OK for me. At least he wasn't older as then I really would be crying! Maybe I need to dust down my Adios 1 - I used to go a lot faster in them than now in "super" shoes :)
Not teasing you. They were the black version with white stripes going across the toes. I had a pair of the blue and gold colorway. I had to do a double take as well, couldn’t believe someone was still wearing a pair of shoes for a race from 5 years ago.
That fact that the AF 1 are still being worn 4-5 years after their debut tells you they are the GOAT!
They definitely seem more special than we all thought back then. I’m still team Vaporfly though.
Kudos to all the finalists. I love my NB Pacer V1's. I hope NB doesn't mess up the low stack with the V2.
Seems like more stack and more substantial midsole foam/geometry in the SC Pacer v2… almost like a plated Rebel now…
i want to massage you about Olympic trails shoe observation BUT on other side i have feeling that you will do it; interesting video, all hails
Ha! I’ll always cover the world majors like this… and in an Olympic year the US trials and the Olympic marathon. So much to discuss in all of those races.
@@SagasuRunning nice
I'm surprised the Puma runners didnt run in the new Fast R Nitro Elite 2. Emily announced early in the week that she was running in the Pacer.
The fast-r is an innovation platform. It grabs headlines and looks cool… but it is likely too extreme for most. It is akin to the Prime X… cool but ultimately not that serious. The tech trickles into the rest of the line eventually.
@@SagasuRunning makes sense
Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 1 was a great shoe for me - lightweight and slightly lower stack than most super-shoes - great for training and racing - hoping they can bring the weight back down in the 3. Vaporfly is still king but the Puma is a great back up - and the pacer 2 could be interesting if the weights close to Vaporfly/Takumi Sen.
What I have heard in from the TRE videos is that the SC Pacer v2 is around 6.5oz for a means 9.5US… but NB foams are not ZoomX. So we will see.
The Pima Deviate Nitro Elite… has never been on my radar… but it’s now. There are three Puma shoes I want to try this year, at least.
I want nothing more than the new Metaspeed to be called the ++. While I understand that they, like most brands want to control the flow of information around a big marketing campaign, I feel as though they're wasting potential in the marketing space. Puma for example yesterday used the race as a way to announce the Deviate Elite 3 and a release window, and now people are actively paying attention to Puma (who, IMO, has been in an underdog status since they relaunched their line, but has shown probably the most growth out of the brands with meaningful updates to their shoes and the willingness to listen to feedback and change with an example being the changes from the Deviate Nitro 1 to the 2 which has reached cult status) and are looking forward to summer. Asics on the other hand hasn't done anything to generate marketing hype behind their new shoe which is disappointing as an Asics fan. Regardless, with no ill will or wishes towards Nike and Adidas, I'm glad we are seeing other brands on podiums because I think it can only be good for driving innovation from brands
I totally agree. Asics is really missing the opportunity. Tokyo 2024 is coming in a few weeks. That entire home race. I’d expect to see a big marketing push there.
I lean heavily Nike and Adidas… but I think the more brands that have success the better for running in general.
Might be Pumas Year with DN3/DNE3 coming soon.
They definitely seem to be in the running for that, no pun intended. I’m curious how they do in the global field world majors.
Do we have specs or a release date for the DNE3?
The biggest major this year is in Paris. That will especially impact Chi & NY.
@@adamfeerst2575 I’ve only “Summer” mentioned in passing in a few places. Nothing concrete as of yet.
@@adamfeerst2575 Agree.. Olympic years are special. This years Olympic Marathon will be especially big given the head to head matchups we are likely to see in both the Men’s and Women’s races.
Interesting insight - as a improvement for next video you could add a slide resuming the podiums & shoes used (video would have been easier to follow). As already stated by @TimGrose below (I fully agree with him!) I raced a local 10K yesterday here in France (was starting from sub-elite block so runners between 39 & 35mins and finished in the low 37's) and noticed how many different shoes there were. For example I was shocked to see a decent amount of people in Adios PRO 3 instead of Takumi Sen's 8/9 (my god I'd never run a 10K in PRO 3s, it's too much of a shoe for a 10K for me). I saw more people than expected in ONs. I Myself finally ran in VF2 after I did close performance analysis of all my 10k training block and compared Nike's VF3/VF2/AF1/Hoka's Rocket X2/Saucony's Speed3/PRO3 on several metrics and guess what VF2/AF1 came out as clear winners. Running gait is different per each runner and today we have some good catalog to choose from and yes - don't be surprised if on local 10K you get overthrown by someone in Pegasus or Cliftons, it happened to me as well :)
I don’t use any images from the races as they are generally copyrighted or I need to pay for rights as my content is monetized. So I avoid all together. It is why I try to make these race review videos concise. I also try to get these videos up ASAP after the race so also don’t have time to check with instagrammers to use their content. Maybe when my channel is larger they won’t see it as a bother (I’ve called in the past).
What images I do use in my videos come directly from the brands PR sites or product pages… so they are free to use for my purpose. Sadly they rarely post races from races, unless a record is broken and even then it’s a few days after the fact.
As for shoes at races. I’d say it was the same at the NYC Marathon last fall. As a runner in Vaporflys I’m used to being the vast majority… but in NYC I wouldn’t say I was in the minority in VFs but it was definitely the most diverse race I had ever been in shoe wise. Many Alphafly, ONS, Sauconys and so on. It’s a good thing runners have so much choice now.
@@SagasuRunning Thanks - very interesting - gosh I wasn"t expecting all these contraints about image rights & co. Keep up the good content - I think your product/marketing insights are very interesting and bring something new to the running community. Cheers
I appreciate the support. I’ve also got my video setup reduced down to a consistent foundation… finally. I’m enjoying having (mostly) consistent looking and sounding videos finally. It’s been a lot of work to get here. If I shared a photo of what the setup looks like out of frame, the chaos, people would laugh.
Maybe that’s an Instagram post. 😂
Puma was a big surprise. Nothing against the brand, but not one I typically associate with the top distance running elites.
They have really invested in the American Woman marathoners. That development is starting to pay off. The brand is a surprise to me as well. But it is starting to make sense.
@@SagasuRunning it’s nice to see. As someone who works in the broader marketing/media industry, I don’t believe Nike or Adidas are making vastly superior super shoes to Saucony or Asics at this point. Early on, probably. But that gap is very small now, I imagine, and its athlete sponsorship spend that keeps those brands on the podium. It’s always been that way to a degree, as Connor Mantz would probably run near the same in the Brooks Hyperion Elite, which is multiple tiers down, but I imagine he runs exactly the same in an Endorphin Elite/Pro.
@@elliotendures I’m not sure I agree at the elite levels. Nike and Adidas are still quite a bit ahead for foams and tech for runners with high efficiency and the form to get the most out of the shoes.
For the rest of us the gap is much narrower. Many great options out there for everyone to find the super shoes that work best for them.
I’m definitely not an elite 😂 but I have a ton of shoes from the past 3 years and the puma deviate nitro 2 is probably my favorite all around shoe to run in.
@jmac13131 I’m looking forward to the Deviate nitro 3… both the normal and elite versions now.
I heard from a source the superblast is now coming with a plate soon - that’s what prolly is being blurred out
Hmmm… they would be very surprising and VERY disappointing if true.
@@SagasuRunning if u check asics superblast seems discontinued in some regions already
Hmmm… the last thing Asics needs is another plated shoe…
Was great to be there at the finish line yesterday! ….We used to race 21k and 42k in the Tarther Japan’s (sold only in Asia) or the original Adios flats. Racing used to “solely” be about efficiency and using the lightest shoes possible. If history and fashion repeat themselves, hopefully this includes racing shoes! Going back to similar profiles but with the latest technology would be a great compromise IMO. 💪🏼🙏🏽👟🏃🏽♀️😊
I do think we will see an eventual return to the lower racing flats as weight feels like the next battle ground. Even lighter foams with more protection and resiliency and new ideas on plates and stiffening agents in the midsoles.
It’s going to take a few years but I do think it’s an eventuality for at least some segment of the race shoe market.
@@SagasuRunning I agree. It will take some time but will circulate back to an updated version of something similar to what we used to have. This being said, some of the high stack shoes are darn close to what the weights used to be in our flats which is pretty impressive.
Agree on the weights. Wha to think is going to push the return to lower stack shoes is as foams get more and more airy trying to save weight… they will reach a point where structurally they just don’t work anymore. So to keep the weight savings brands will look at reducing the amount of foam… this the return of lower stacks. 🤷🏼♂️
@@SagasuRunning It’s like a runner’s weight. One can only get so low before it sacrifices performance. 😉 …The trend will shift when consumers start getting bored and are looking for the next/new thing.
@@kristinecarleton2409 The trend will shift en-masse when consumers feel that way. When you see brands like Saucony start making lower stack racers you know it’s a trend. Until then the top tier brands will always be looking for performance. If they see it in low stack shoes with modern materials… you guarantee they will go there.
It's very sad that Molly Seidel couldn't run the trial or we could see three Puma on the pondium? (Big fan of Molly)
Puma deviate nitro 2 is surprising good after I trained & ran it in a marathon. (It even was chosen as shoe of the year by Kofuzi).
Ya… Molly’s injury was a bummer in an Olympic year.
Kofuzi’s first DN2 video is the one that first made me begin to pay attention to Puma Running last year.
As you know have been underwhelmed by AF3 but AF1 was never a favourite either. EddBud seemed to rate the Puma FastR 2 as his favourite shoe ever. Were the Puma leading women in a development shoe.
I’m not sure. Given the Deviate Nitro Elite 3 isn’t out yet.. it’s likely it still was, or at least one they are still tweaking.
@@SagasuRunning I saw one graphic (Alex Flitti I think) suggesting they were development ones. If so kind of makes the "new" FastR 2 seem a bit pointless if Puma have already dropped it as it were!
@@TimGrose The Fast-r is a headline catching innovation platform, like the Prime X is for Adidas… not a serious shoe. The tech/ideas eventually trickle down into the rest of the line.
@@SagasuRunning yeah I agree although not having tried said shoe need to take that view with some mitigation. EddBud seemed to run well today in his HM in them but not seen any other such glowing reviews.
Hey Chris, very interesting video as always! But I have to be honest..I do not get the marketing of Adidas or Nike or Asics..like at all.. So with Nike, as you mentioned the AF3 is not that different in terms of the production, so why this scattered release with a very limited proto and then 1 ugly color release 2 months after that? What is the purpose? Is that supposed to ramp up the sales? Are people not buying other shoes in the meantime? (like the new saucony , new balance, hoka supershoes)? .....Then we have adidas, what is going on with the evo ? is there gonna be a public version of the evo? is there gonna be a Adios pro 4 ? like they have the women wr , use it maybe? And with Asics, i mean these blurred out videos to me just seem silly, is that supposed to create a hype? The running shoe markting just seems so weird compared to other sports....sorry for my rambling, thanks again for the video
I think the reality is that the demand for these "super" shoes isn't as much as it might seem and shoe companies look to make their real money out of daily trainer type shoes. Only have to see how many Alphafly 3 are still left on StockX to see that runners don't want one at any cost. I think there is now another reality that most runners who want a "super" shoe already have one and the differences between the 2024 releases and previous are largely getting ever smaller.
Nike is stuck in the past when “forced rarity” was a thing. Nike really defined the sneakerhead/hypebeast 5-8 years ago and got very used to their little game on releases. However they just seems dated and lame now. Hopefully their marketing team will figure this out soon.
Adidas’s problem is production capability. They simply can’t product enough Evo1s, at all or at a cost they won’t loose a ton of money on, yet… someday maybe.
Asics… I don’t get either. It makes no sense and is just silly at the moment.
It’s the fact there are so many more options out there. The AF3 may be good, even great, but there are plenty of other, easily accessible super shoes, that are almost as good (if not better for many).
Nike’s “forced rarity” marketing approach needs to end. It’s a 2017 concept that has not aged well at all.
Asics should bring back the metaracers 🙂
The Magi’s speed 3 is a fairly similar ride, albeit softer… but the way they feel off of toe is similar.
@SagasuRunning ahh I see. I'll give those a try, thanks
every brand has a competitive shoe? Not sure about Brooks, isn't their latest Hyperion Elite 4 still (Nitrogen infused) EVA?A carbon plate doesn't make a shoe a supershoe, its the resilient foam and Brooks still seems to refuse jumping on the Peba train, or to develop an alternative with competitive resiliency. They know what they do and there is a big market of runners that are not so keen on top performance at the expense of other aspects, but its just not top tier racing. Apart from that, we really seem to be getting into a golden age of super shoes with alternatives like Puma, Hoka or On joining Adidas, Nike or Saucony with high end shoes.
Hhyperion Elite 4 was "good enough" for Josh Kerr to win the Fifth Avenue Mile back end of last summer and to post a quick half marathon more recently. Presume CJ in the trials ran in them and he was certainly "competitive".
Every brand has something that will work for a runner out there in racing. I do think there are tiers, but Brooks is in the conversation, but not the top tier.
There is alot of choice out there right now for superheroes… that’s good for running.
This…👍🏻
@TimGrose because of or despite the shoes? There was a study a few years ago comparing different shoes showing that while the superfoams from Nike and Asics do give an advantage something like the Rocket X 1 with EVA did not. But of course we are only talking about a small percentage of influence. I never made it past midfield despite top tier shoes and always get overtaken by tons of runners in daily Brooks or Pegasuses, does that make Supershoes a scam? 😉
@@therunophil probably a bit of both. Josh Kerr wore Nike Dragonfly spikes in Tokyo Olympics in 2021 as Brooks did not have anything "super" at the time but he used Brooks spikes to win the world champs last year. I infer from that that he has now happy enough to wear Brooks shoes in races. As you say though certain shoes don't make suddenly make us less more "normal" runners way better than we are actually are. However I say to myself would have I gone faster in my Pegs in a race than say my Vaporflys and the answer is always no.
Nike sales are about 30 times that of Puma...
No doubt. Puma is also primarily fashion sneakers in many markets too. That and football boots.
I suspect that a significant component of brands moving to PEBA based foams is based on marketing and production capability more than an inherent superiority over other polymers. The microstructure of the resulting foam is what actually matters and additives and processing has narrowed (or eliminated) the gap between TPEs, TPUs, and PEBA. Then we have to remember that the foam is only one component of what makes up the efficiency of a whole shoe.
The Adios Pro line has been equal performance-wise to the Nike super shoes for at least a couple generations and so I'm not convinced that Adidas' move to PEBA is a concession that PEBA is a superior material. It may just be that it's easier to produce now (since the market for it has opened up) or even that it's just easier to market shoes since everyone "knows" PEBA is the best material.
As a jaded materials engineer, I've learned it's usually safe to assume that performance is rarely the top consideration when it comes to the material a product is made from.
I believe lightstrike pro is still EVA. It's not entirely clear as adidas don't disclaim it. But it's good and is harder wearing than Peba I find.
Lightstrike/lightstrike 2.0 are EVA. Lightstrike Pro is TPee.
Super interesting perspective. I agree with you on the ease of production capacity for PEBA. It’s something that is a known quantity now as is how to work with it. Maximizing it for lightness, along with resiliency is clear too.
I think better way of saying what I meant in the video is “PEBA foams have won, for now.”
The industry is always searching for performance and production optimization. If they find a better mix elsewhere… then they will move there.
Adidas has a long hard production road ahead of them with PEBA. The cutting process they are using to produce the Evo1 midsole is problematic… as is their inherent rod design in the softer and less dense foam. I’m very curious what they do next.
@@SagasuRunning I think you mentioned in a previous version what would be a pretty easy fix to the problem caused by their rods installed into less dense foam: adding webbing between the rods. They could use relatively thin webbing to engage more of the foam while having a negligible effect on the weight or stiffness (torsional or axial) of the carbon element.
I also think the issue with the cutting process may be a smaller hurdle than you're imagining as well. Lots of things in the prototype stage are cnc milled that have way more efficient processes to accomplish the same thing at higher production numbers. I'm obviously completely unfamiliar with the proprietary materials and processes they're using here, so I can't know the exact challenges they have, but it wouldn't surprise me if they could do something like removing the less desirable material around the edges by making larger sheets of the foam and then die cutting multiple midsoles out in a single step. Obviously the tooling cost for this doesn't make sense for a run of 500 shoes, but may reduce the unit cost if they're making 10x as many.
If all else fails, they could just leave that undesirable material around the edges and then just market it as a midsole with a "engineered density gradient" that provides some benefit and use it as a selling point : )
@JRuns Yup, webbing in the rods will help and allow Adidas to keep their “marque” design solution.
Ultimately I do think Adidas will more to compression molding or some such process for the midsoles. They could also “cut the crust off” to part as well… to get the final feel they want.
Nike is the brand that innovates. Everyone else follows. I hope that changes.
Nike and Adidas have the budgets to do a lot of R&D, which is where the innovation comes from. The other brands can’t spend as much but once in a while hit on an idea that is golden.
Yeah that Nike Evo 1 is crazy innovative! So is the Nike Prime X.......😂
@@tav4755 Let’s remember who pushed the industry forward and set the supershoe era into motion when Adidas just wanted to keep milking Boost. Things go cycles.