How to get great 35mm Film Scans with a CHEAP Epson Flatbed
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- I recently picked up an Epson V4990 to use for scanning 4x5 sheet film, but I wanted to spend some time with it and do some tests with 35mm film to find out what the limitations were. I've never been a huge fan of scanning 35mm with a flatbed, but unfortunately, there aren't any other affordable options out there if you want something that can do multi-format. With the proper sizing and sharpening, I found out that you can actual get some pretty decent results using this scanner, and in this video, I'm going to share my process.
Sharpening Preset: bit.ly/3sx8UHg
Image downloads: bit.ly/3fq1qlJ
Printing Video: • PRINTING WORKFLOW - Ho...
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A great medium format travel camera: ebay.us/FVcfWk
The film scanner that I use for my work: ebay.us/RwKM4c
Best entry-level film scanner: ebay.us/Qp3ZEz
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I’ve been doing research for the past 2 weeks about 35mm scans and then this video comes out.
Hope it helps!
I can't tell you how thankful I am that you decided to include the scanned image as an example in the video description! There is so much information on scanning film out there and just like your video most of them are great. The only problem is that I really really wish to see the finished scan on my monitor instead of "just" seeing it in the video. Greate moves!
Recently I just bought an Epson scanner to make film digitalizing be cheaper, and struggled with the issues of sharpness and NLP before I check your channel, greeting for the guidance!
Glad this helped!
My friend and I had lots of negatives to scan for a book. The original negatives were 6.5 x 8.5 glass from 1920s. They had a lot of contrast. We had an Epson 4990, one of the only choices at the time for scanning up to 8x10 transparencies. What we found from the first few scans is that the contrast range was too short. We were not getting all the grays we could see on the contact prints. It seemed like the scanner's light was too dim. Also, looking at the upper deck on the scanner I noted that the light was unfiltered, just straight harsh light. I'd been working in the darkroom with film for years and was familiar with the difference in enlarger light sources where you have either condenser heads or diffusion light. The diffusion usually came from a thin plastic filter or with the color heads there was also a styrofoam box where the color filtration was added. My choice in enlarging 4x5 and medium format became the color heads. The sharpness was not quite as good, but it would avoid the "soot and chalk" (Ansel Adams) quality of the condenser enlargers and also minimize the appearance of dust. We applied this to our scanning situation by using a sheet of tracing paper. It's a special paper I could purchase by the sheet at a graphic design store in town. We would then lay the sheet on top of the negative carrier in the scanner and the improvement in tones was substantial. Later I tried a Canon scanner with medium format. The Canon top deck had a diffusion glass built into it. I got much better scans from the Canon scanner since it seemed like the light was brighter as well. For a short time, I also had the Minolta Multiformat scanner that Ken Rockwell recommended. I compared scans from the Epson 4990 with the Minolta and I was quite surprised. The differences were insignificant. I sold the Minolta scanner. I am now using a Nikon Z7 with the Nikon Z macro lens on a copy stand with a light box and a piece of ANR glass taped on one side to the top of the light box. This worked well for keeping the negatives for both 35mm and medium format, panoramic and various formats flat. I can use the flip up back on the Nikon and touch to focus each negative where I want to. I have to keep the shutter speed at 1/15th or faster to avoid the rolling light effect from the flourescent light. I was able to scan about 120-150 negatives in an hour or two each evening to work through my collection in a few weeks. I really appreciate your sharpening ideas. I've never been satisfied with the tools in PS for sharpening. I recall the software received with Nikon cameras for RAW conversion worked better. Also, oddly enough, the software provided with the old Polaroid scanners was terrific at sharpening just what I wanted and leaving the rest smooth.
Having started when I was a teen in the seventies with enlargers, getting progressively better enlargers and optics, up to a Leica enlarger and its Focotar (that was much later), I'd say that with proper sharpening technique like you just brilliantly showed, the Epson is at least as good as a very good optical enlarger. Nikon scanners have more resolution than enlargers, so do Imacon/Hasselblad and most drum scanners.
I think that 35mm is called small format for a reason and if the target is to get 12x18 or larger very sharp prints, maybe 35mm is not the most appropriate starting point. 6x7 medium format, even with an Epson, will give enough resolution for just about anything.
One thing that I find important about the Epson is the reliability. My V750 is 13 years old and works like the first day, never had any problem.
Cheers, Stephane. And yeah, I've owned two Epson's now, both used, one of them found in a thrift shop, and other then the glass needing to be cleaned, they worked flawlessly.
Yes!!!! Thanks! You always come out with things I look for-scanning, quality control, etc
Glad you enjoyed!
Brilliant! Thanks Kyle.
I have the Epson 3200 which does a decent job for its age and cost (£20). There was a 4990 at auction last week and I nearly went for it but decided to buy some vintage lenses instead. I'm of the opinion that if I see a shot that I think warrants the VIP treatment then I'll just send the negative off to a lab with a Hasselblad or Noritsu.
Yep, not a bad way to work Morris. Sending off for higher res stuff here and there is good option as well.
Cheers for this, I am light years from the nearest lab here in El Paso. Love your work.
Would be great to see your complete workflow from Vuescan : )
Thank you for this video Kyle! I've always been kinda displeased with how my 35mm scans turn out and I have the v550. This video helped a ton!
Glad to hear it helped, Thomas!
Thanks for this Video! I have an Epson 4990 and with your technique i‘m really happy with my 4990 now. 👍🏻
Glad to hear it helped. 🙂
Great info, thanks for the consistent uploads which are definitely inspiring me and many others. Keep up the great work
Definitely. In my opinion he's got one of the greatest film channels in the platform.
I appreciate that, Sam. Thank you!
Cheers, Fernando!
Wow loved the speed through scan to final product process at the beginning.
Had a V550 I was never happy with, both results of scans and it’s quirky/intermittent functionality with my Macbook. I recently picked up a Super Coolscan 4000 ED for a very fair price and could not be happier!
Nice! Yeah, stepping up to a Coolscan or ever cheaper dedicated film scanner makes a world of difference.
Those scans were looking really solid. Def want to work on my scanning workflow for my favorite pictures
Thanks, Kyler. All about finding a workflow that is best for you.
This is really useful, scanned my own film for the first time on an Epson V600 and was pretty disappointed with how soft the files came out. They look a lot better after trying this.
My favorite video of yours in a while. Great information! I have been using High Pass sharpening only, last night I tried scaling up and unsharp mask as well with great results. Thank you!
Cheers, Darren. Glad you found this one helpful!
Really great and in depth workflow video! I have been scanning all of my 35mm work exclusively on an Epson V600 and I’m slowly finding a way to fine tune the scans to get the results I want
Glad you found it helpful.
Thank you so much! Excellent info.
I bought this scanner last year in Italy for 60 euros it's great
Good deal!
If you mainly shoot 35mm film, then do yourself a favor and get the PrimeFilmXA. You'll get clean, sharp, actual 5000dpi scans. In the US, the device is sold with SilverFast. In Europe, Reflecta sells the device under a different name, higher price and without SilverFast.
The device does batch ingest, so you can scan a whole roll of 36 to 39 exposures in a batch. You can also scan framed slide positives one at a time.
It's a no-brainer.
Yeah, a flatbed is not the route if you’re only shooting 35. This is moreso meant to help someone that needs multi format but doesn’t have the budget for a Coolscan or even the newer Plustek 120.
@@KyleMcDougall I shoot mainly 35mm and some medium format. To digitize medium format, I use a light table, overhead mount and a ICL camera with a very good macro lens to photography my medium format images (I use an Olympus E-M1 Mark III in 80MP RAW high-res mode). I wonder if he ICL camera approach renders better results than a flatbed scanner - in other words, is the flatbed scanner approach still worth it in general? I think you have tried all of these methods, what are your thoughts?
@@weisserth Honestly ive never scanned my film with a digital camera, but everything ive seen says that digital scanning is better than flat beds. I scan all my work (except 35mm) on an epson V600 and the quality is okay. But ive seen other people get crazy good scans with a digital camera workflow. Id still with your olympus for scanning film, i wouldnt bother with a flatbed
@@Hasselbaddie The one thing you do not get from photographic scanning is the IR correction. A good scanner captures 16 bits of IR information that can be used to remove scratch and dust. This doesn't matter when scanning B&W negatives of course, but with a color negative or positive, this might matter. That's one of the main reasons (and batch automation) I use the PrimeFilmXA instead of a camera to scan 35mm.
Nice tutorial, thank you!
Cheers.
I've been using the Super Hires mode with my Pana G9 combined with one of my sharpest macro lenses. Not the best solution, but my scanner died and I've been shooting digital for fun with a Fuji X-T30 and X-Pro3 lately so I haven't invested in a new one. Hires mode gets fairly good results, I've digitized some paintings for a few friends using the G9 plus hires on a custom rig to get multiple shots to stitch together.
This man reads my mind every damn time. I was just researching the Olympus xa vs the af-1 to see which lens is better and you post a vid shooting it 😍😍
Holy hell nib coolscan epic find my dude!
I see your Epson and raise you my Early 2000s Hewlett-Packard HP 15010 all in one scanner/copier/printer 😂
😂
Comparison with the Plustek, please.
Don’t own the Plustek anymore. But it’s definitely better for 35.
All the processing tips are very interesting. Given the title, I am surprised you did not address the focus calibration for the Epson. Having the holders at the right height can make a big difference.
I actually owned the Better Scanning height adjustable holder with ANR glass for my old Epson flatbed and I noticed no difference at all. Surprisingly, after testing different heights, the stock height (and holder) produced the best results. Seems like such a mixed bag of experiences with these scanners.
Video about the XA would be great!
Working on it!
I wonder what photoshops new "super resolution" mode will do to some film scans?
Curious as well. Still need to try it out.
@@KyleMcDougall Same. Although not for the same reasons! Just to see what it can do.
Thanks for the informative video kyle... too bad while im still working on how to maximize sharpness when scanning with my v600, i wished it was within the LR
Yeah, I love LR, and use it for most things, but I just really enjoy the flexibility of PS when it comes to layers and sharpening.
Kyle, I think it would be nice for you to put out a similar video using the cheap Epson flatbed scanner and the stock Epson Scan software. Not everyone who purposely buys a cheaper flatbed scanner can also buy VueScan software with NLP in addition to their Adobe LR/PS subscription. I really thought this video was meant for people on a budget.
Unfortunately when it comes to detail and resolution, the stock Epson software is limited. You really need to get into PS and use some layers and different tools to get the most out of these smaller negatives. If you're curious just about converting/processing, I did do a video a while back using Vuescan for all of my conversions. Not sure if you watched that? I haven't been using Epson Scan in ages, but if there's interest, I could put something together for anyone looking just to mainly stick with that program.
Thanks for your reply. I absolutely do use LR/PS for editing purposes. I was not suggesting that Epson Scan be the only mechanism to edit or scan the images. But why would someone buy a cheap 4990 scanner if they wanted the best results but then shell out for VueScan, then NLP, then LR/PS? At that point, I'd just scan my film with a DSLR or mirrorless camera with macro lens. The whole scenario of cheap scanner plus expensive software seemed discordant to me. If you want better results, it starts with a better scanner.
thanks for sharing
I'm wondering how my V850 would stack up. This was also primarily bought for large format scanning, but I'm looking at adding a MF camera to the stable and even 35mm. Certainly in digitising my father's old slide collection, I've been intrigued about the possibilities.
I don't have experience with the 850, but it is the latest model, and has better specs on paper, so I'd imagine it's going to be more capable.
I have an Epson that auto-loads 35mm film on a virtual XP machine. Works pretty well, but not as nice as my X-T3.
do you use the xf macro lens to scan?
I’m curious to see how you make out with 4x5 scanning
I’ve used the 4990 in the past with 4x5 and been pretty happy with it.
Thanks for the video Kyle. Any chance a tutorial for how to use this for scanning 4x5?
The fascination with sharpness baffles me.
Watching this video, my takeaway is, with the Epson, if you didn't have anything to compare it to, the prints (even at 12x18) are fine. I've found that a lot of times, the only time people have a problem with something and it's "not good enough" is when they have something to compare it to. The truth of the matter is, there are *lots* of really great, really large prints that are in reality 8-10MP, and almost nobody (if anybody at all) complains about fine detail or overall image sharpness, when in fact, they could have a lot more fine detail and be a lot sharper. Just my two cents.
Yeah, I think we're all going to have different preferences and standards. Personally, I'm always interested in getting the most out of my film as possible, but, I'm also very conscious of the fact that 'good' work is dependent on so many different variables, many of them more important than image detail. Just one part of the puzzle.
The original scans where its says there is no detail, looks really nice, plenty of detail - unless you are printing on a billboard maybe?
Not me crying when he says the image looks soft while I look over at my drug store scans 😂😅
Interesting how I open Photoshop through Lightroom and the DPI is more. When I export a photo from Lightroom, the photo is 72 dpi. Does the DPI really matter when resizing the image?
Really informative... thanks :)
Would you recommend this scanner over the V600?
This one does 4x5, so there's that benefit if you need it. It also has a claimed higher DMAX of 4.0. But I've never done a side by side.
I've been to that graffiti gas station!
The fake resolution of all flatbed scanners is not something said on the forums, filmscanner.info has tested it with USAF charts. Nikon Coolscans have 3900-4000DPI while the best Epson today does only 2300DPI.
If someone can answer my question I’ll really appreciate it. What’s wrong with modern scanners that these old and discontinued ones are needed?
I also would have bought the Epson Perfection 4990 photo but on Ebay germany it was still to much money for me thats why I picked up the Epson perfection 4490 photo for 50€ and the results are very good for this scanner and if someone are interested the perfect DPI is 2400 because at 4800 its yeah blurred
I have the 4490 too since like a million years, do you think 4800 helps with his method? I find it takes too long to scan with that setting, but might be worth it only if this method works with our scanner
Oh I thought this would be a video about scanning (settings on Vue Scan, Neg lab) rather than post-processing on PS. Would you say the former is more important than the latter??
Hey Leonardo, I've done a few videos in the past about my workflow with NLP and Vuescan. I'd say they're both equally as important. I just find that getting a proper 'look' is something that can be done with most scanners, whereas detail / resolution is something that can be a struggle with 35 and flatbeds, which is why I wanted to focus on that for this video.
Very informative vide Kyle. I am wandering, why did you pick up a 4990 over something like the V700? I know it is more expensive but you can find one at a relatively good price with a little bit of patience. I was just wondering why you choose one over another.
I purchased the 4990 because I only need it for 4x5 so I didn't want to invest in the 700+.
@@KyleMcDougall I see. Thank you very much for answering. Since I want to scan 120 film as well, I will probably look for a used V700 or V800.
the real question is: how to get cheap epson hahahaha
Goodwill ✌
@@trels203 if you’re lucky
eBay; if you are on a limited budget or just staring out in film photography an older model might be a good option. I was patient and eventually found a good deal on a plustex 35mm scanner on eBay for $150 . If you have good credit a zero interest Best Buy payment plan might be an option as well.
Facebook marketplace, I got a v600 for $60
I just got the model he is using for $50 on ebay, just look around lol
How about a video on Epson V850? Been planning on buying one for myself because I'm struggling with good 35mm scan quality with flatbeds
Don't have access to one, unfortunately.
Hey Kyle, for the sharpening panel that you're using there... Do you still suggest someone purchase the full panel from Tony or is there a way to do this manually? Coming from someone who just bought NLP and Vuescan a little reprieve would be nice 😅
Hey Aaron, yeah, unfortunately I'm not sure of what the sharpening process is, I've just always used the preset. The only way to get it is with the panel. Sorry!
Great video. I currently get my scans done at the lab. Just wondering if the high pass filter method would be useful for any type of film scan?
Hey Tom, it would work with other types of film scans as well. Just all depends on how sharp they already are when it comes to the amount you use.
@@KyleMcDougall great thanks! 👍
Maybe a stupid question: But why do you use the Luminosity blend mode when you add unsharp mask? And is that usable for B&W scans as well?
Is It possibile to male an epson scanner 2400 photo work with Windows 10?
what is the application? Epson Scan ?
Great video, I'm scanning my negatives at the moment with a DSLR, but I have access to an Epson V500. Where is the V4990 to place in comparison to the V550 in terms of negative scanning capabilities, is the V500 usable in any case? Thank you all!
It’s been a while since I’ve had the 550, but I remember getting similar results with 35. Both will likely be very close. I’d assume that if you’re going to see any jump in detail it would be with a dual lens 750/800.
V500 is the king of scanners. Use on my nikon's, hasselblads. I have had more work published worldwide with my v500's.
No need to upgrade.
Hi Kyle! I have one, but the Epson Scan software stopped working for my Mac Mojave 10.14.6. I don't know what else to do because Epson Scan Software has a Color Control tool that helped a lot to digitize my original watercolors. The Vue Scan for my case is not very good. I need to know if the Epson Perfection V600 works with my Mac. Thanks for the video. This is a huge scanner!
Hey, sorry, I haven't used Epson Scan in a while so I'm not sure if there's a fix to get it working on your Mac.
@@KyleMcDougall thanks!
Question Kyle, so when scanning a 35mm negative it’s max resolution would be a target size of about 6x9 before a scanner adds artifacts if I’m not mistaken. Would I use some sharpening in Silverfast (or any scan software) to get a decent file to begin working with? Scanning 35mm on a 850V with no sharpening or anything seems so far from details I get in darkroom prints I’m not sure if it’s even an acceptable place to start before using high pass filter etc. Any help on target size scans, and settings would be a huge help - especially since I tend to shoot 400iso black and white film, I’d like to try to keep the grain and detail looking natural
Having trouble with the skies in my images. Grainy beyond the characteristics of the film and sharpening makes it worse, often E100 or Portra 400, scanned in Epson scan 2, then converted with NLP. Any advice?
How are your exposures? And which scanner are you using?
Welp. Time to buy my neighbor's V660.
Hi I badly looking for a scanner, im torn between this and the v600? Which one would you recommend? Will the 4990 can compete with v600 or v600 is much more superior than 4990?
I would say if anything the 4990 is more superior than the v600. But probably not by much. It can also scan large format film. But the benefit with the v600 is you could buy it new.
What to do when I don't have filmholder frame?
Would you still recommend an Epson v600 today for scanning 35mm film or would I be better off using a mirrorless camera? The initial cost of using a mirrorless is more but I am wondering about the image capture quality.
If you're just shooting 35mm I'd look at a Plustek if I were you. I did a video about one on this channel.
@@KyleMcDougall Thanks for the reply. Would the v600 be a good choice for 120 medium format film?
Could you use these techniques for medium format film?
Yep. Although medium format is much better with one of these scanners, so you wouldn’t have to be as aggressive.
What dpi should I use for 35mm scans in an Epson V600 ?? Any useful going above 3200 dpi ??
you don‘t use the Plustek anymore?
Only bought it to do a video testing it against the Coolscan 9000.
Hi ! Thanks a lot for this video. I see a change in color before and after this sharpening operation on PS. Is that a matter of color profile ? Anyone has the same issue ? Thanks !
Afternoon Kyle, how'd you go about getting the drivers for the epson scanner on a modern OS?
No drivers necessary when you’re using VueScan. 🙂
@@KyleMcDougall ah ok, thanks man!
Is that best epson flat bed scanner that is also budget friendly? Or there is more options u der similar price range?
I haven't used them all, but, out of the cheaper models, this one does do 4x5, and also has a higher listed DMAX. That being said, I didn't notice a big difference between this and my 550.
Hi thx for the video
I got a 4490 for really cheap (10$)
And i was wondering should i invest in a v850 120 film holder (the one the glass and adjustable hight) I think I have to cut some plastic bits to adapt it with the old 4990
Can somebody help please
I wouldn’t go that route. You can always look into one from Better Scanning. They make holders with ANR glass, although in my experience, I didn’t notice any quality difference.
What about the Plustek 8100?
Does anyone have any feelings about buying second hand scanners on Ebay? I am looking at a Minolta Elite 5400 but now worried about the age and condition.
Not gonna lie I totally forgot about unsharp mask
If you use the Eason, can you see the film grain sharp in the file? It seems that the negatives are not directly touching the glass.
What is the difference between V600 and V4990? What about a Plustek 35mm film scanner?
The plastic holder places the film at a specific distance from the glass. In film scanning mode, the scanner adjusts its focus to match this distance. If the film is placed against the glass, then the film will be out of focus, and an optical interference phenomenon known as Newton's rings will produce coloured fringes in the image.
@@cdl0 thank you. Do you know the difference between something like the Eason v 600 and v 4990?
@@stefpix I have not used either of these particular Epson scanners; however, both should give acceptable results at reasonably affordable prices. As with all such things, the amount of improvement is not proportional to increasing price, so you will pay hugely more to get something that is only slightly better. See also my main comment on this video for some more scanning tips and advice.
@@cdl0 thank you, I have an Epson V550, that i have not really used. I saw a video that shows that the Plustek has much better quality. I was thinking of scanning old negatives and get rid of them and just keep a couple of boxes. it may be time consuming. Maybe use the Epson for many photos, and buy a Plustek for the better ones?
@@stefpix Both the Epson and Plustek scanners have a good reputation. What to do about large collections of old negatives and old slides is one of those problems like how long is a piece of string, and there are probably as many different answers to this as the number of people you ask. It all depends on what you want, I suppose. Sorry for the lack of clear advice here.
Question that someone watching this may have the answer to: does anyone know where I can get replacement film holders for Epsom flatbeds? Broke mine 😫
Aliexpress
I’ve bought some off of eBay in the past. Also on Amazon from time to time.
@@KyleMcDougall Thank you!
Depending on which flatbed you have you can get new ones 3d printed.
Talking about Epson scanners, can anyone give me some feedback on the Epson f-3200?
Soo why are using a *tif file vs a JPEG or other?!?!
Because a TIFF is much higher quality than a JPEG, which is important for editing.
I have one Epson 4990 for sale!
Went to ebay to check 4990 prices. FML
Not much about the actual scanning, though
good video but i with you would stop comparing these scanners with your Nikon scanner, it just wastes our time, we are obviously here because we have or are looking at the cheaper Epson scanner.
I can already feel the prices for this epson 4990 going up. 😅
I normally really enjoy your videos but this one feels like you are all over the place. Very hard to follow. Plus it appears you have to have a host of other programs to do what you do. For someone who is not as learned in PS or Lightroom as you this video is not useful. You keep referring to a different video to see how you sharpen but I thought that would be part of this video. You don't explain why you are doing any of what you are doing.
Sorry to hear this one didn't work for you Thomas. This is just my workflow, and PS is a big part of that. Although like I mentioned, I'm sure there are other ways to get good results as well. Anything I can touch on in the future that would help you?
@@KyleMcDougall Thank you for your reply. Can't please everyone right? lol I am just a very logical methodical type person so this video was difficult. Too much information at once. I think I, and many other viewers, would have learned more with a step by step with explanation not only to what your are doing but why. This is a subject I am very interested in as I just started shooting 35mm and want to get the best out of my scanner. I normally shoot Large Format so my scanner works great for that. Especially wet scanning. Anyway, I very much enjoy your channel and one video I did not think was the best will not stop me from tuning in and continuing to be inspired by you. Thanks.
All good Thomas. Always open to feedback. Thanks for watching!
@@KyleMcDougall Not trying to compare but i found this video that I think is saying many of the things you are trying to explain. ua-cam.com/video/q1IXiWqG0o0/v-deo.html
Dude whats wrong with you. Its FILM. If you want so much detail go digital. I don't get it.
@tape stuff You are correct. Also, the fundamental limit of resolution is set by the finite wavelength of light, so regardless of the medium, it is physically impossible to do better than this.
A lot of unnecessary talking. Bored me to death.
fuck of
Dude what's wrong with you????
@@zahouda stfu snowflake