Comparing 5 Epson Film Scanning Techniques
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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What's the best technique for scanning film on the Epson Perfection flatbed film scanner?
Mmm, mhmm, yes. That's a good question. That's what I wanted to find out. So I set out to compare 5 different scanning techniques on my Epson Perfection V750 Pro scanner. The techniques were:
1. Using the good old Epson film tray
2. Dry mount to a piece of ground glass
3. Fluid Mount with the Epson fluid mount station
4. Fluid Mount directly to the scanner glass
5. Inverted Fluid Mount using the Betterscanning.com Variable Height Mounting Station
Listed above is just about every technique I could think of for scanning film on a flatbed film scanner. And by the way, I know, dedicated film scanners are better than flatbed film scanners. But I can't scan such a wide variety of formats on a dedicated film scanner. Unless it's a Hasselblad Flextight film scanner. But if I had the kind of scratch for one of those, I wouldn't be photographing buildings every week, you know what I'm saying?
I digress.
The Epson may never be up to competing with a drum scanner, but seeing as how I'm not going to drum scan every ones of my negatives (again, wouldn't be photographing buildings every week...) I figured we might as well find out what technique would squeeze out the highest quality file.
In doing this comparison, I of course looked at sharpness, but I also compared things like grain, chromatic aberrations, and dynamic range.
And you're never going to believe what I found out!
That's a lie. You'll believe it. It's not a big surprise. But okay, enjoy the video and thanks for watching!
Website: www.nickcarver...
Instagram: / nickcarver
Because I'm such a nice guy, you can skip to the verdict at 5:06. But please, before you leave a comment saying how I’m wrong and my video sucks and I should have done everything differently, at least watch the entire thing. Enjoy! 👍🏼
So awesome... how many hours of work, testing and editing was that? All summed up into a 10min video - with a highlight direct to the verdict - God bless you my good man! 👍👏😃🎞
Just curious... Any download example scans? Example height settings on the BetterScanning tray? Will watch again on my monitor instead of phone :) 🖥 >📱
bwvids thank you, my friend! I was thinking of putting the sample images into a blog post for people to reference if they’re interested.
Just a suggestion. You can eliminate using the Mylar, and get even more improvement. It will take some practice to get it right, and avoid bubbles. I place the film emulsion side to glass carrier, leaving the smooth side upwards, which allows easy bubble removal. I know it sounds weird, but I've been doing this many years this way.
I can't tell you how much of a treasure your channel is.
An unbelievable resource of information. You make scanning painless and a joy. Which just makes shooting all the much more enjoyable as well.
Nice video, and I appreciate your honesty about your results. Thanks a million!
I've actually found the sharpest way to scan to be shooting the negative with an old Motorola razor phone haha. Thanks for the tips!
Ha! Well I think I know what my next tutorial will be...
Next video: focusing your scanner.
I have the 850 and have been using the Epson trays that came with it I set them in the lowest setting and the scans look great. Though my trays don’t fit 120 and 4x5 film and I had to cut the tabs out of the way.
Very helpful Nick, thank you for sharing all your testing.
Love your channel! And waiting for new videos!
Always so exciting when there’s a new *Nick* video 😉
Ross Jukes Photography thank you!
Do you happen to know if betterscanning is still producing these? I have tried to order twice now and have not heard anything back from them. I also sent them emails and did not receive a response.
I tried a year ago and nothing
I've found (V850 Tray) if I scan reverse film (emulsion side faced to the bottom of the scanner) the definition is a little better,
Where did you buy the V850 trays? B&H does not seem to have them.
I have no clue what any of that meant... but its you.. so I listen.
you sound like his wife.
You should start a Patreon, your channel is actually very useful. unlike others ! I would happily contribute to see more quality content from you.
I've considered that, but I worry I wouldn't have enough time to put out the videos I promised to my patrons. I'm not really sure how frequently you're supposed to put out content on Patreon, but I'll look more into it. Thanks for the encouragement.
@@nickcarverphoto give it a go , if it turns out too much work you can always end it. Or if it works out you'll get your photo trip paid for ;)
Nick Carver I would sign up for your Patreon in a minute
Well, it makes sense that you would have better chromatic control scanning through only one piece of glass.
Precisely. But what's weird is even the V850 tray and the ground glass technique both had a little more chromatic aberration than the inverted fluid mount. Still one piece of glass, but maybe the fact they were dry mounted had something to do with it.
I have experienced unsightly chromatic aberration when I use iSRD in Silverfast. Taking it out solves it. I wonder if that's the culprit in your case as well.
Thanks a lot for this video, very helpful!
Glad to hear it!
Where did you order the V850 tray from? I was thinking of doing the same, as I am having a lot of curling on my older film. And thanks for the video!
The most reviewers reviewing a V800/V850 advise to buy a V700 frame without glass (yep). That reviewers don't any additional liquid during scanning. The problem that dust can appear on the glass which seems to be hard to remove.
Hey Nick, love your videos, don't know why I missed this one and be late to do a comment. But here is a highly technical web site that you can compare scanners and scanning methods (I bet you already know it): www.filmscanner.info/en/FilmscannerTestberichte.html
See ya!
Hi Nick, I recently discovered your channel. As a professional photographer myself for over 12 years, I’m finding your vids really informative and watchable. I like that you don’t edit too much like so many of the A.D.D. Vids out there. Straight goods, nice and dry, with a dash of lolz. Nicely done. Thanks for these tips too. I learned a few new things here and my scanning is already improving.
Nick - you've opened my eyes! Here we were with an Epson 800, and had no idea as to it's potential. Thanks for the wake-up!
Hi sir Nick! I tried contacting betterscanning but I never get back from them, did the company shuts down or change the name? Maybe you have any information about them. Thanks!
Option 6, Try wet mount inverted Epson tray. You can flip it so your not scanning through the glass like better scanning. That’s what I’ve used for sharp results but Bettering Scanning gives you more adjustments.
Excellent info! I have a question. How does the better scanning fluid mount compare to a drum scan? Do you have a comparative example? Thanks
Lots of folks asking about checking focus on the Epson scanners. Here's how I did it: jrileystewart.com/blog/2017/04/10/easily-verify-the-focus-on-your-flatbed-scanner/
I've scanned hundreds of 8x10 negatives wet-mounted directly on the glass of my v700. After many exhibitions displaying 24x30 prints from this scan method, I can confirm, the lower resolution lens is completely adequate for that format.
Good to know. Thanks for the confirmation.
Wet mounting? I find less fluid is much better. I use less than 3 mls for 2 4x5 negs at a time. In the video, looks like you used about 20. Extremely thin layers is what I’m after. Easily remove bubbles with a pec cloth. And evaporation during a session is insignificant. Try it.
Nick Carver upload and a trim flat white, great start to my day!! Very interesting. I actually had a V750 and sold it because I was fortunate enough to get hold of an Imacon 848. Fast forward 18 months and I re-purchased a V800. Firstly because I'd seen the results from their new film holders and secondly because I wanted to take some workload off the Imacon. The Epsons are plenty good enough for anything other than 35mm in my experience.
great info. thank you
Love the way you shoot and can't wait for more on-location videos. Question: Any experience with the DA YI 6x17 roll film back? Thinking of getting one and shooting with a 4x5 for some pano landscape stuff.
Thanks Nick!
It would be nice if you could compare the v850 tray to the betterscanning dry mount. The betterscanning is almost four times the price.
As always, really nice video Nick! But crap, I think I'm late to tell you a different holder system to scan 120 film (and also 135). Did you heard about the Lomography Digitaliza120? Quite innovative concept that "holds" the negative stretched using little magnets and without using any glass! Give it a look and tell me what you think. I use it and I'm quite happy with it.
Congratulations for your channel, really mindblowing content. Hats off to you!
Seriously, this presentation from you, Nick, blows all the other scanner videos out of the room. Certainly in terms of getting the best out of a Flatbed scanner. 👌
☆☆☆☆☆
Good video Mr. Nick! 1 question....over the Inverted Fluid Mount using the Betterscanning....why are you using the mylar sheet over your film? You just need 5 drops of liquid with a dropper ....like here ua-cam.com/video/L8l0rLtsCLg/v-deo.html
Nick, I wanted to inquire about the betterscanning Variable Height Mounting Station, specifically the glass. I was wondering what the primary difference in glass quality is between the fluid mount only and Dry + Fluid Mounting Station. Are both made of true glass or is the Dry + Fluid ANR glass made of Acrylic like the epson OEM v850 ANR 'glass' film holders? Which one did you purchase with your Variable Height Mounting Station? Super informative video. Thank you for your time!
I really don't get why people rip so much on consumer scanners, not everyone can afford a Hasselblad Imacon scanner, get over it!
Amen! We're not all ROCKEFELLERS OVER HERE AMIRITE?
Hey Nick, How necessary do you think Aztek's mylar is? I've tested some much cheaper durlar off amazon and I think it works pretty well. What do you think?
Has anyone tried using using the inverted method on the Epson fluid mount kit, is that a possibility?
Hello Nick... I recent purchased a Optek 8200i 35mm film scanner. I want to scan all of my films that I shot from the 80s and 90s. I've been scanning my film to jpegs, but was wondering if it was worth it to scan as tiff? I've heard its better to edit tiffs over jpegs, but is it worth it to scan as tiff over jpeg when scanning 35mm film?
Nick, how large are you able to print using this method with the 6x7 negs? I also use the RZ Pro, but I use it only for B&W. I would like to get out of the darkroom and go hybrid. I really enjoy your channel. Thanks
Love your content, Nick! Any advise for scanning old 35 mm rolls of negatives that have been tightly wound for 50+ years? They're like springs and *really* hard to handle. I can get them under glass which works ok but then... the dreaded newton's rings...
Hi Nick. Thanks for the video. I recently purchased a v850 holder with the ARN glass to work with my Epson v700 but I am struggling to get that thing clean from dust before scanning the negatives, it is like a magnet for the dust. How do you handle this issue when you are scanning the negatives?
I'm 5 years late … but well, thinking about it - the color fringing when scanning through the glass might be kind of a "prismatic effect" due to its thickness. When doing camera scanning, the glass is always below the film, and due to the larger DoF, it should not matter if the film base or the emulsion is facing to the camera (film defects should be similarly visible and influence the result both ways). No surprise there, but good to know!
Looks like the betterscanning mount only supports 120 film. Couldn't find a 35mm option on the website.
Excellent video Nick. Any plans on sharing your process for adjusting the better scanning holder?
From the "DUMMIES" - NOT many know this 4 sure ! - THX / Keep UP your HARD work N.C. .... ;) :::
I don't understand the differences between the Silverfast SE Plus vs the Ai Studio, is the Ai version worth the price difference? Thanks.
Love this, super helpful. Have you ever considered trying wet mount on the piece of glass that you hold up with shims? sort of like a make shift better-scanning mount? These mounts are really hard to come by in Australia and I wonder if this would bridge the gap...?
I bought an Epson V850 scanner, but my glass negatives are about 1/8 inch too wide to fit in the negative 4 x 5 holder.
Nice video sir, thank you! I have a few questions for you... what model & size is your Gepe light table? Where did you get it? Also, why does the scanner have to use a lower resolution lens if you scan directly on its glass?
Thanks for sharing! It's great to see people putting up videos on how to use flatbed scanners in a good way. Sure, using a dslr to photograph the negatives gives sharp results but the colours are really lacking when going that route.
Amen to that. I'll be doing a comparison video soon of the DSLR method vs an Epson V750 vs a drum scan.
@@nickcarverphoto Looking forward to that one.
Is this the reason you prefer (I assume) to do flatbed scanning vs DSLR scanning? Or is there more to it?
@@Miguel-kh9pc The short answer is that stitching images and color correcting with DSLR scanning proved to be a bigger hassle than it was worth.
the v850 holders are a bag of shit. They don't hold a strip of 3 6x7 negs and when the standard binder sleeves are designed for strips of 3 then it's a real fucking headache. It's so badly thought out.
Den Epson-Filmhalter muss man mit selbstgebauten Füßchen in die Position bringen und im Scann-Programm, Scann mit Filmhalter, einstellen. Sonst wird der Scann unscharf. Man muss bei dem Epson-Filmhalter auch die Maske benutzen sonst wirft die Perforation bei 35mm-Filmen, schatten ins Foto.
Crap! If this is 3 years old and it STILL is so pertinent, that means I have 3 years of your videos to wade thru.... uh, what was the downside of that again?????
Great video - and very interesting outcomes. If you only used the other methods you could end up blaming your lens for that colour fringing when it was in fact the scanning method.
Hi Nick, I am a Swedish fan of al your films on You Tube and you inspired med to start shooting color film and not only B/W. I use my Fujica GM670 for the color film and you also inspired me to buy an Epson V800 with the holder with the holders with a plastic "glas"
I have two questions before I go all in for Wet scanning.
1. How do you get that plastic dust free? I am getting cray about the dust and on both the film and the plastic glas, especialy on the plastic, How do I clean it the best way
2. I think the tray i strange since there isn't room for the film, the area is slitly smaler then a 120film . Is it rely ment to lay on the angel plastic holders? I feels strange to me and I wanted to have it laying on flat to that palstic???
I like to have it perfect and start doing prints in high quality, I think I have seen your film about the Licoure store thee times and hope to make something similar some day.
How do you like the GM670? I was looking for one for a good while when I finally decided to get a medium format camera, but ended up somehow getting a Mamiya Universal at the last minute.
@@sssssssev I love my Fujica and only use it for negative color film so far. I have a hand held Seconic meeter that I use with it. I love the sharpens of the lens but I don't have that much to compare it with. When a shoot B/W 6x6 I use a Ikoflex 1a and Olympus Om for 35mm
Good on you for getting into film! Glad I could help encourage you.
1. That also drives me insane. It's a dust magnet. I just do my best with an air blower and anti-static brush. But be sure to use iSRD when scanning to help reduce it in the software.
2. Yes, it's supposed to sit on top of the angled part of the plastic. I know it seems weird, but that's how it's designed. The film will float a little above the ANR glass as a result.
@@nickcarverphoto Tnx a lot for taking some time to answer, then I know I am not alone. I managed to scann two favorits yesterday following your flow and they are now sent to a frisnd for printing large 57cmx140cm. Again, tnx alot for al the inspiration you are doing in your canel. Regards Richard.
Next step is buying some ED glass for mounting to get less chromatic aberration heh
Are there any suppliers selling sheets of low-dispersion (ED) glass?
Nice video, really interesting! Would you suggest wet scanning for black and white negs on a epson v800?
I was intrigued about the undermount vs overmount comparison. Evidently, Betterscanning claims some benefit to the undermounting, but frankly, whether you overmount or undermount, the light beam still travels thru 2 panes of glass, right? In overmounting, the beam "reads" the negative after traveling thru 2 panes before hitting the sensor. With undermounting, It 'reads' the neg before traveling thru the 2d pane on its way to the sensor. I wondered how much difference this phenomenon would make on my own V700 (wet mount; neg on plate glass under mylar; Kami fluid), film planes equal at focal distance of my scanner. I scanned part of the film mark from a sheet of TXP 320 both ways (VueScan) at 4800 ppi. Posted the result on dropbox here: www.dropbox.com/s/x79uomnro8rpnp9/Screen%20Shot%202018-12-09%20at%2010.23.15%20AM.png?dl=0
Conclusion: No clear difference in resolution. This is a screen shot from a LR comparison of the two scans; 100% view; no sharpening. Undermounting may have other important benefits; perhaps to reduce chromatic aberrations, but it didn't affect resolution in my short test. I'm still intrigued, tho, and will explore further. Thanks for bringing this up, Nick.
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epson has some great flatbed scanners
i use one myself!
thanks for sharing all this great content with us!
always appreciate watching videos like this!
Thank you for watching!
Hey Nick, do you think an epson scan would work also for 35mm film or it would be too small and the resolution would just be horrible? Thanks for these videos!
It’ll work and you can get some pretty good results, but for 35mm you’d probably get better results scanning with a high-resolution digital camera and a macro lens.
how do you dry a negative after you finished scanning? I tried using gamsol as a fluid and doesn't really evaporate.
So, will the Epson V850 tray work with the V550 scanner?
Hi Nick, I have a V750 pro, no you don't have to scan 8x10 on the glass. I stuffed around with trying to work it out for a while, asking in a facebook forum. Turns out the issue was the front part of the film holder/shim. I copied my "scan science" cardboard shims of 4x5's for an 8x10 and it kept on cropping the width of the scan. It's those little tabs at the top that govern the width of the scan, the sensor picks up on them and crops it in... So just cut them off and move your holder back from the front of the scanner so nothing blocks it at the first part of the scan, it then sets it at the widest scan and I can do full width 8x10 scans on cardboard shims at perfect focus.
Good tip. I didn't know about that. Thanks!
Well I guess the rabbit hole of scanning is calling my name now. Damn you Carver.
Joking. Mostly.
It'll be nice to have some company down at the bottom of this rabbit hole.
Nick Carver I actually do really appreciate all these tips you share. Pretty awesome stuff.
whats the best way to avoid newton rings with polaroids ? - is the fluid mount anti-newton gals? -
Do you recommend epson 850 pro or plustek (which model) ?
Really helpful, thanks. I have a V550 and if I ever take anything good enough to warrant it, I'd like to have a go at wet mounting. Just did a comparison of Ilford SFX & Rollei 400 and was getting significantly sharper results from the Rollei film, but after seeing the curl on SFX I suspect it was more down to the scan than the film itself. May have to invest in a betterscan holder just to see which is best without that issue. Still - even with the default (no glass) holder for the V550 I'm getting super results that I can print to 13x19. And for me, that's pretty good.
Thanks again and this new 2 videos a month thing is definitely working ;-p
Why i cant scan my negative at 48 Bit.... It only gives me 24--48 bt.
do you know if betterscanning.com is still in business? they haven't been responsive to emails or orders for weeks.
7:39 Somehow right at this point in the video, some coffee got on my monitor. Pretty hilarious :D
Thanks Nick! I scan 6x6 and 4x5 with a v700 (and sometimes a medium format digital camera), and may upgrade to the v850. I am not interested in fluid scanning. I had a Betterscanning mounting station years ago for a different scanner but found it to be cheaply made and tossed it. 😠 Times change and so does manufacturing. I appreciate this review a lot!!
Thanks for watching!
Dont the V850 holders "crop" your image? Ive always found them to be too narrow for 120 film
I've never had them crop my images. They, of course, crop some of the black border, but not the image itself.
Nick, do you recommend a sleeve for the 850 film trays to keep dust and stuff off them as much as possible? Maybe something like the stone photo gear you have on the scanner but for the actual trays? Thanks!
It couldn't hurt. I keep mine in a drawer covered with a sheet of paper. The 850 tray is great, but man is it prone to dust!
Excellent 👍🇬🇧
Thanks!
Yo Nick! you Rock... and you are funny has hell!
Better scanner site sucks. What mount did you buy and how much was it?
great vid! could you make one on how you use silverfast?
Hi! I've check on the silverfast website that all the function that you mentions are included in the basic version of the software. is it correct or I have to buy the studio version?
You get it for free with a v850. The basic version comes for free with a lower end epsons. If you want AI studio you have to pay for the upgrade
Orlando bloom deals with a technical problem 😂🤣
how do you focus then?
Multiple scans until it looks right?
Yeah exactly.
Such a great video, extremely useful for me and saves me so much time going through all the options.
I just have one quick question: do you use the Epson trays with the film side facing the scanner or or as recommended - facing up?
I’m seeing absolutely no difference between the Epson 4x5 holder and the Better Scanning Holder. The BSH is height adjusted for optimal focus. This was my first fluid scan with a Velvia 100 shot. No bump in local contrast , not sharper. Is the difference supposed to be obvious ?
Walking this statement back. It might be a tick sharper, it’s really hard to say , the tones are better though and there is a slight bump in local contrast , it might even be more than slight bump. Re scanning and editing and the files already look better. I’m also enjoying fluid mounting and even my girlfriend thinks it’s rad so it’s a win win.
Very nice. Thanks for the video.
The only youtube channel i have my notification on! Love your work!
Yeeeaah! Thank you!
Thanks, very helpful - especially the tip about the V850 tray!
I’m shopping for one now
How do you properly invert color negative photos? Without ruining the look of the film stock you picked.? I'm doing a DSLR method of scanning
What is your opinion on scanning with a flatbed scanner compared to DSLR scanning?
Good to know, I will continue to use my V850 MF tray. And timely as I'm about to scan a bunch of Velvia and Provia 120 films. Your challenge Nick Carver is to produce another relevant instructional video just before I'm about to do something again! Cheers...:)
Challenge accepted!
@@nickcarverphoto You're the man!
Would you ever consider trying scanning with a camera? It's really is super easy and the sharpness of fine details will blow you away. Color correction used to be the hard part but now with Negative Lab Pro (not an ad btw) it's so easy and the best color I've seen out of a scanner... If you can set up a tripod and level it you can scan with a camera, all you need is a cheap macro lens and a light table.
Loved this! Crucial information here for us togs! Ta Nick :-)
Thanks for watching!
You missed one method of scanning - The Digitaliza by Lomography. Uses a unique mounting method which pinches the outer edges of the film only, eliminating the need to scan through any glass (besides the glass bed of the scanner, of course). I've found that it keeps film flat well enough, but sometimes the "wavy" sections of 120 film still aren't tamed by this method. Another point against this product is that it does not offer adjustable height, although I have used tape to shim it up to the focus plane of my v850.
Anyways, appreciate the video and trying out these methods so that I don't have to! I am curious about the BS holder and will probably try that next for anything I need to print large or just to geek out at the detail of medium format. I also enjoy squeezing out every bit of quality from my equipment - major kudos for explaining your process and keeping things consistent so that the results can truly be compared! So many times the scientific method is lacking with youtube content creators and it really invalidates their conclusions sometimes, but I'm rambling now... Cheers!
Another Digitaliza user here. It's definitely not perfect, and it took some trial and error to determine I needed to raise it up a bit with cutout mat board to get it into better focus. But I'm mostly happy with the results.
Hey Nick, will your better scanning mount fit on an Epson V600? I'd like to wet scan 4x5 negs in two passes, and stitch them in PS. Is this possible? Thanks.
You are still my first choice in photography knowledge, inspiration about the 6x17 format (I love it!)(I use a Fuji G617 myself) and the way I run video on youtoube :))) I love your channel! :)
Hi Nick, only recently discovered your videos, fascinating presentation technique, especially liked the Glenmorange connection, a fine Malt, but talking malt is for another time. Am particularly interested in scanning as I have a great deal of old negs but am also intent on shooting more film 35mm and 120 on an ETRS and Minolta Autocord. My 35mm will be scanned on an Minolta Elite 5400 but the 120 on an Epson V800, so I have a question as an prints from the Epson will be A2 max' on a textured paper do you think the V850 mount technique will be more than adequate. Also have you found issues with Newton Rings when using glass mounts without fluid on 120 negs'?
Hey Nick, great videos. This was super helpful for me figuring out what to use for my 4x5 scanning. Thanks a lot, I love your channel.
That is a great video Nick. Glad I landed here! Out of curiosity, how long does it take to scan a 6x6 negatives? I read somewhere up to 19 min with the scratch and dust removal feature from Silverfast - which seems like a lot of time, though it might be for three negs. Lastly, I was told an Epson scan would show up too much grain of the negative, and a better solution was DSLR scanning... What do you think? Thanks much!
Hi Nick, I have been watching this video for the third time to get familiar with Epson film lol. I'm thinking to buy an Epson 850 to scan my film. But I watched some other videos, their conclusion is Epson scanner is not very clear, so it got me hesitated. What's your thought about this scanner? Do you have any new experience with scanning film recently? Thanks!
"ARE YOU SICK OF IT YET", hands down best channel out there!
Thanks for comparing Nick. I purchased the Betterscanning mount but unfortunately it came without the ANR glass; waiting for that. Did you do experiment with the height to find which is in better focus for different film size?
p.s. I just saw the examples of your work = Very, very good photography. Actually, perfect work. You should mount a gallery show of those derelict southwest gas stations titled "Nick Carver vs. Ed Ruscha" :)
Thanks for the videos! They are a big help 👨💻
Thanks for watching!
I just want a drum scanner, or a Imacon