3 Reasons I Have a Problem with Fundamentalist Christians
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- I hope people receive this message in the spirit with which it is delivered! I want Christians to be open-minded but uncompromised in our day and age. Hopefully I can help to lead some in that direction!
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#fundamentalism #fundy #heretic #biblequestions #bibleanswers #christianity #apologetics #bibleexplained #bible #theology #biblestudy #reformedtheology
OMG thank you!
I'm a new Christian, I didn't intend to become one, I was doing academic critical Bible Study and fell in love with Jesus. So I go looking for Christian content on UA-cam and BAM I am greeted with a bunch of angry, unempathic/borderline sociopathic, women-and-gay-hating extremists who definitely think I'm going to hell because I cannot hold to their exact doctrines. I had never been forced to watch so many videos or read so many articles about how women are inferior to men or gay people are going to hell or even Christians who just have questions are going to hell. It was literally all that came up in my searches at first. It was a massive stumbling block, and was a little traumatic because I was seeking siblinghood with fellow Christians with an open heart and I found deep evil instead. I tried to join some Reddit groups but that didn't go well either. It's all left me even more scared of doing something like joining a church.
As a vaguely educated and slightly intelligent person with some grasp of history these people make no sense. If they think the Bible is the most central thing what does that mean for the many, many Christians for hundreds of years when the Bible either DID NOT EXIST YET or was completely inaccessible because 1) it was illegal in their language 2) they couldn't afford one or 3) they couldn't read -as most people couldn't until fairly recently??? Were even those so passionate they martyred themselves not Christian to these people????
THEN they claim that this immensely complex thousand of year old collection of books originally written in three different languages across diverse settings should be able to be read plainly and literally by ANYONE. The rationale for this is that they believe that God intended to communicate and thus ANYONE can read and receive the message in its entirety. I'm sorry but a very uneducated or barely literate person probably cannot read the whole Bible and get anything of the original meaning of the authors - especially parts of the OT are very hard for us to really understand. People dedicate their whole careers to studying one book of the Bible and continuously notice new things and argue on the intended meaning. Jewish people - who read the OT in the original Hebrew - have spirited debates on what the stories really mean. And that seems to be more allowed among Jewish people.
I really feel their treatment of the Bible is bizarre and lazy and demeans it. If it contains the secrets of everything worth knowing why wouldn't it require intense study to truly understand all the mysteries? Even Jesus says he speaks in parables to give wisdom and understanding only to those who are equipped to receive it.
Fundamentalist Christians are clearly in error about many things, and their lack of ability to understand nuance or to act in good faith with out-groups is dangerous. They will abuse others and call it love. They are everything Jesus spoke out about.
Subscribed :)
I agree, Jess. As a fellow Christian, I'm terribly sorry to hear that all of the error and hate among the "Christian" community online presented a stumbling block to you. I've been a Christian for many years but it still troubles me as well. As this video states, there are far too many simplistic Christians who simply don't understand that the Bible wasn't originally written to 21st century Americans in modern English. Many see disagreement with their point of view as disagreement with the truth of scripture when much of scripture is clearly open to interpretation.
Now, don't get me wrong. There is objective truth in the Bible and there are certain "fundamentals" that are crucial to the faith, but these never seem to be the things that inspire the most passion in people.
It's like I told my son, hold fast to what you believe in, but always be willing to listen to another opinion and don't ever criticize someone for disagreeing with you.
@@willmorgan3088 one of the big things that stuck out to me from this post was "if the Bible contains the secrets to everything why wouldn't it require further in depth research?"
Well, not everything's a mystery. Not everything's a secret. There are many things that the Bible makes clear without any room for debate. One of those being sexual sin, which includes but is not limited to the lgbteufbri mafia.
And let me be clear here, for most of your life I'm sure you've been told and believe that Christians hate gay people. No one can blame you for having this misconception. But This is false, literally zero Christians I have ever met have ever hated gay people. You can understand that someone is living in sin, while also loving them. In the same way you can acknowledge that your sister shouldn't be drinking every night, or that your brother shouldn't cheat on his wife. Technology that these things are wrong is not the same thing as hate, anymore than keeping your child from sticking their finger in a light socket is hate.
Assuming you were raised non-religious, this might be the first time that you're hearing people tell you what is wrong, things that are sin, things that you ought to repent of, and that's going to make you feel uncomfortable. But it's important to realize that part of being Christian is understanding The authority that God has over your life, and that's much more important than the leniency of your state laws and the leniency of your culture.
Hey, thank you for the long post. There is another channel you should check out being new to the Faith. “How to Be Christian” is a great source of help when it comes to knowing the basics of the faith. God Bless!!
Wow. I relate so much to your comment. When I became a Christian I expected warm loving kind hearted people when I searched on UA-cam. But as you said, sadly the most popular is the people you described or people way far in the other side like Joel osteen who preaches that god wants us to be rich and give us materialistic happiness in this life. I think Jesus would not be happy with both of these extremes.
Well I hate to be that guy but I must say the Bible specifically says the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God. That’s Gods words, not mine.
“For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;”
1 Thessalonians 4:3 LSB
Love is very important but if there isn’t any truth then that is not true Love. I love my Children but if they go to touch a fire then I will correct them so they don’t get burned. But don’t take my words for it. Instead here’s the Bible definition of love.
“Love is patient, love is kind, is not jealous, does not brag, is not puffed up; it does not act unbecomingly, does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered; it does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”
1 Corinthians 13:4-7 LSB
So though it may offend you, the gay, lesbian or sexually immoral are living a lawless life style. Their self righteousness is against God because God created a man and woman for each other. Now I do believe God wants them to turn from their sin and turn to Him and be born again but if they don’t do that then according to the Bible they will not make it to heaven.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Eph 5:5
Galatians 5:19
Rev 21:8
Lev 18:22
Heb 13:4
Many verses speak against it. There’s simply no gray area there. So if you are in a relationship that is against God then If I were you I’d seek God and not stop until He purifies your heart from those desires. Now if you have friends that are gay then that doesn’t mean shun them yet instead preach to them. Maybe you’re able to reach them in a way where others can’t really connect with them. But always remember there is no love without truth. And anytime you speak truth make sure to cover it with love 😊
Literally. Fundamentalism sent me to a mental hospital and not just once. I wish fundamentalists could find peace with God without having to make others sick.
Agree with you totally. The Religious Fundies actually do make people mentally ill. Frankly many of them are in my opinion obsessional, controlling, manipulating, fear mongering, and much of the time really quite unpleasant human beings.
Most of them get off on having power over others and their abuse of authority. They should be avoided at all costs.
They should come with a Mental Health warning. The term ‘religious nutters’ really hits the mark with many of them and don’t they just love being all Holy Joe!
@@1daddyDA Have you ever seen the movie"Going Clear?". I could really relate to those people. I watched it over and over even though I was not ever in Scientology.
It has affected me a lot as well. I hope you are doing good today ❤
When I was going through immense anxiety, the church I was in--a fundamentalist Bible Presbyterian church of the Calvinist Westminster Confession --refused to let me have access to mental healthcare. I left it but am still using the years to undo the damage they did to me.
@@kevinjanghjI’m really sorry to hear that, you’re not alone and have a lot of support. I know it feels like it’s going to be impossible to reverse the damage done some days but it will with time. ❤
I am 37 and have been in limbo since my early 20s. I’m recently feeling like it’s the end of this prodigal tale and I’m ready to return home, but I don’t know how. Understanding why I struggle to converse with people and feel unwelcome in my church is helping, and this video was part of that. Thank you.
My pleasure, Cymric. It can be a difficult personal journey, and I wish you the best. My video on 'deconstruction' may help, as you might be in a different stage of your spiritual journey than your peers, even if you are all holding to the truth.
ua-cam.com/video/01_xpEtxqgw/v-deo.html
I feel the same :(
We need to be careful when we disagree from any side that we don't allow ourselves to hate those whom we disagree with. Hate has no legitimate place in the lives of Christ's followers, regardless of whether we interpret Scripture as a fundamentalist or not. Fury and anger are not fruit of the Spirit.
Very thoughtful comment. Thanks, Will.
-tanner
Yes that was very surprising show me also but that I believe is the spirit just like the spirit of confusion that is why I believe so many pastors that don't know too much about what their preaching on are always angry at fundamentalist for pointing out scriptural truth
Thank you for this! I had a “discussion” (argument) with the leader of a fundamentalist group yelling at my campus about burning in hell yesterday and I just was having trouble reconciling with how we seemed to believe the same God but he told me my definition of love was wrong and “antichrist”😂😂 this helped me learn thank you.
Best of luck, Madeline! I have interacted with these types before as well.
😂 “Dave from sales”
Really loved this Vid! Thank you! Do you know of any books or other resources that have the open but uncompromising mindset? I too am a historical fundamentalist. I often am on the defensive as they feel I’m backsliding when I disagree with them. Most of my community is modern fundamentalism(grew up in it)and I struggle feeling like a fish swimming upstream. Any resources would be greatly appreciated!
Jessie, unfortunately there is a paucity of material on this subject from within Christendom itself. One book that was extremely helpful for me was Iain Mcgilchrist's "The Master and His Emissary." He is not Christian, but he demonstrates a Neuroscientific basis for why human beings tend towards fundamentalism at times. If you want an intro to this idea, I have a video where I spent some time going through the concepts:
ua-cam.com/video/jXLdPAu5pDI/v-deo.html
You also might find James Fowler's 'Stages of Faith' interesting. His 'Stage 3' is basically fundamentalism. I also have a video broadly treating these themes:
ua-cam.com/video/01_xpEtxqgw/v-deo.html
Pastor Tanner, great video! I am a devout practicing Catholic and have been debating (what has turned into just arguing now) with my very fundamentalist aunt. Everything you said here is 100% spot on! The way you put it is excellent! I have a great friend who is a Lutheran pastor and none of our talks or discussions are ever like that of one with a fundamentalist! Thanks for the video, and God bless you brother!
God bless! Best of luck in future conversations!
This was very helpful thank you
Hello! I am having presentation in political ideologies and I’m supposed to find flaw in Fundamentalism. I am having trouble finding hole in this odeology. Can someone help?
As a closed system, it is very coherent. This is both its strength and weakness. Consider consulting James Fowler - Stages of Faith. His stage 3 is essentially fundamentalism.
I read about “stages of life” but it seems vague to me to connect these two things together. Can you tell me more about hole in the Fundamentalism ideology?
Ps. I am not fluent in english so it’s kinda hard for me to understand all this political terminology.
@@tinigelazania8719 Fundamentalism is an internally coherent system, so it provides stability and a helpful framework. However, this strength is also its weakness. It stunts growth because the individual is not encouraged to think for themselves but instead memorize 'orthodox' answers. James Fowler's Stage 3 in his stages of Faith book is essentially fundamentalism.
Thank you for breaking this down - I've been going out of my mind when talking to people with a fundamental viewpoint. My approach of love and compassion did not find favour at all... How can we talk to fundamentalists without it escalating into an argument?
It can be quite a challenge, Samantha. I have found that the best approach is twofold. First, I try to remain calm myself. This can be difficult for me at times, but I believe it can help a lot in de-escalation. Second, I try to ask a lot of questions and sort of talk around the issues. I spoke with a JW fundamentalist this week and asked her if she 'would be open to the idea that Jesus might possibly be God?' She immediately responded with an emphatic no. I then decided not to pursue that line of questioning any further and merely asked her if she has had the doctrine of the Trinity ever explained to her from a protestant perspective. She said she had not, and I went down that path of just defining and explaining, and we had a much more fruitful conversation.
Good luck, and God bless!
-tanner
Oh boy, some of the worst encounters with fundamentalist where atheist fundamentalists. Their bullying of not believing in their dogma is unparalleled.
There's no such thing as atheist fundamentalists because atheism isn't a doctrine or a belief "system". It's a refusal to accept moldy mythology, stories written by primitive people who made up stories to explain things they didn't understand. It's a refusal to accept having this dogma forced on us by religious zealots who refuse to take no for an answer. We don't believe in religion, so how is that fundamentalist? It seems like it is when we're blanket rejecting the verbal onslaught of having this crap shoved down our throats.
@@mallorymcguire833 I had an online convo with some atheists about how I wasn’t sold on both creation and evolution. I was basically told since I didn’t blindly accept evolution (which is still a theory btw), that was some inbred, redneck fundamental bible thumper who was poorly educated (due to them seeing homeschooled on my profile). In reality I was homeschooled due to a hearing disability, learning disabilities, and bullying. But the fact I wouldn’t blindly accept atheist dogma confirms there are atheists fundamentalist.,
Why’s the W missing from the map
Great video thank you. I follow a lot of Christian Fundamentalists which led me to this video.
It's quite simple really. A Fundamentalist is somebody who takes the Bible literally.
I believe that is often one quality of Christian fundamentalists in general, but I also think that things are a bit more nuanced than that. Thanks for offering your thoughts.
Hymn #20: The steadfast love of the Lord
Change to large font
Refrain
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases.
Your mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning,
new every morning:
great is your faithfulness, O Lord,
great is your faithfulness!
Help the poor, feed the hungry, treat others with kindness, and to better yourselves. Those are what Christians should inspire to do. Instead, fundamentalists focus more on the fire and brimstone part as well as hating another person's faith due to them either not being in the right denomination, following a different religion of the same God, and also hating polytheistic religions and seeing their gods as devils, which are some of the reasons Christianity has begun to be hated more now
There is a lot that I appreciate in this comment, Sean. While I believe doctrine and theology are important, it seems to me that Jesus was much more focused on how we live. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@PastorTanner You're welcome. I'm a Catholic by the way. I just got so sick and tired of people calling superheroes evil, particularly Thor from Marvel Comics, even though Thor is not a god in the traditional definition in Marvel Comics but an extradimensional being worshipped on accident, since Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were Jewish and used some of their faith in their comics
What I detect from Christian fundementalists is (and apologies from being imprecise or vague) that there are some things where they seem to rely on their own power and understanding instead of trusting in God. They say they do but how they interact reveals otherwise. It's as if they have no assurance that our God is infinitely almighty so they have to step in. In the end, it's the Holy Spirit who convicts the hearts of people.
Also, it sounds like they're not used to dealing with unbelievers so they're very sheltered. Then they start friendly fire incidents over secondary and tertiary doctrines, to borrow your words.
I think there is some great insight in what you are saying here. Thanks for sharing!
This is so true. I listened to one you tube video by woman who was so worried about causing others to "stumble". She talked a lot about how a Christian woman should dress, even how a Christian should decorate their home, so as not to display anything that might look like it could be pagan. To me, it almost seemed to diminish God's power, because she was so fearful of evil lurking around every corner, trying to trick people into un Christian behaviors.
@@Teresa-ch3og Thanks, Teresa. We all have different paths and timing for our growth.
Open but uncompromised - I like the phrase, and would say it reflects my position, as well. Thanks for the phrase!
Awesome, John! Take care. :)
Point 1 is very good. The problem is when you find out the descrepencies in the early manuscripts..... 😮
I'm not sure if that is a real problem. Many Christians these days are aware of textual criticism and the manuscript tradition. They've either made peace with it or moved on.
Good Stuff Pastor. In my denomination we are overrun with Fundamentalists. Someone from my denomination once said in 1956 that they were the lunatic fringe. Only problem was, the lunatic fringe wasn't quit so fringy. I always approach them on the basis that I might actually help them to become more open minded. I usually leave them not being so successful. But I have seen changes in some over time. Not often, but I do see it. Keep praying and continue to struggle with them. Let no one rob you of your joy.
Im a fundamentalist.
The good old-fashioned one.
Thats i klicked this video. I was curious.
But good video on the topic on that other stuff.
I studied in a fundamental college and what you say is. 100% true
Thanks for the affirmation
I dated a fundamentalist. Decades later I put the experience in one of my own vids. But in a nutshell this was how it went. I was an agnostic/unspecified theist as I am today. Probably closer to a Jew than anything else. The family was friendly to me only until they realized I wasn't going to convert--which they attempted to intrude on the second they met me. They told the daughter how I "had to get to church etc." And I knew more about the bible than all of them put together. Her family and friends eventually got her to break it off. It was like trying to push against a tidal wave. But the real eye opener was the hypocrisy. The father had another illegitimate daughter from an affair, the sister was a stripper and their pastor hanged himself after he got caught sleeping with a fifteen year old. But the guy who considered marriage to the daughter was a red flag because he dared question a book he knew from cover to cover which they had never even read. Saying I have a problem with fundamentalists? That is an understatement. They are a cult, pure and simple. Cheers, DCF
Thanks for sharing your story.
@@PastorTanner Sure--appreciate the objectivism---DCF
Brilliant, I could say amen to every word!
Much love! Thank you for your support. ❤️
I'm actually preparing for a debate with a well known athiest about fundamentalism. I hope to bring some of this to the table in discussion.
Link me it when you are done!
@@PastorTanner Yea personally I agree with original terms of Christian Fundamentalism adhering to the inerrancy of the Bible (knowing correct cultural context and hermeneutics of course) but I do see the issue with using such a term nowadays since it's cultural meaning has shifted. Please pray for me(:
Well done!
I was gonna ask why you so mad bro. After listening…totally get it. Good vid!
Lol, thanks Brock. God bless.
Thanks
4:38 Catholicism actually would agree that pre-millennial or post-millennial (sometimes called "amillennial") is secondary. Though this is an ill known fact, some hold chiliasm to be a formally condemned heresy.
However, pre-trib (at least for _all of_ the Church) would contradict Matthew 28:20 "all days" .... the tribulation saints are still part of the Church that Jesus founded on the Apostles, they are not like OT bis, as some have held.
Now, some Protestants when dealing with Catholics will fail to understand we also do distinguish between primary and secondary, simply because for us, _more_ quantity of doctrines come into the level primary, a k a dogma. E. g. a Protestant may argue one could disagree on Real Presence vs Symbolism + Spiritual effect, a Catholic holds we need to believe Real Presence. A sinner can physically receive the Body of Christ, and thereby commit a sacrilege. As St. Paul actually says.
If we have more primary doctrines, we might have more secondary and tertiary ones as well, not less ... where Babel was is tertiary, if my guess in advance on what you will define that as is correct. It's important for apologetics. W a i t ... it actually has sth to say on _what_ Babel _was_ as a moral atmosphere.
In my view:
* imagine a bungler, who thinks he can launch a space craft, if he only can continue to command everyone else on earth
* but who in reality can't, because the Neolithic he is helping to technically and socially advance doesn't have all pre-Flood technology, whatever that was and didn't have Wernher von Braun
* but as he thinks he can, and getting up into space and onto a plane where God lives and which can't be flooded is vital to human survival, he thinks he has a right to command human unity internationally, to save mankind
* and as he was popular (but also efficient in coercion) as a mammoth hunter in the not far off palaeolithic (when he was a decade or two younger, or three or four), he gets away with capital punishment involving some kind of decapitation and leaving decapitated bodies to vultures, while he strings the skulls on top of each other, as skulls so stringed have been found in Göbekli Tepe, and as bodies lying under flying vultures are depicted on ceramics from the same neolithic ...
I think this is a fairly important message. Antichrist won't be a great New Age guru, as they are normally seen. If he can rely on people, including Christians, to bark up the wrong tree, to see the tower as a bronze age ziggurat or chalcolithic ziggurat, and esoterism as its goal, he can get pretty far, even supported by Christians. Or supposed such.
5:02 Post-trib is obviously the correct, or at least safest doctrine.
William Tapley believes there is a _partial_ pre-trib, which is obviously not in the fault against Mt 28:20. But then, that cannot be what 1 Thessalonians 4:16 speaks of.
Excellent
My problem is you saying "the bible this.. the bible that".. the whole bible study thing is fundamentalism.
Interesting take. I feel there are many who study the Bible that don’t necessarily fall into the ‘fundamentalist trap,’ but point well taken. Thanks for sharing.
3:46 Great, the text from I think Acts 4 does not negate Romans 13, or in context, since the priests of the temple prior to deicide were ecclesiastic prelates, Hebrews 13:7, it actually just tells us where the limits are.
Romans 13 should for instance not be a recommendation to take the mark of the beast bc it is required by government, if that is the manner in which it is imposed.
Tensions are beautiful ... when it comes to soteriology (read Eph 2:8--10 for one) or instructions on how to live.
It does not follow that tensions can actually be all that present about Biblical history. Nuance _can._ Speaking of nuance, how do you interpret Shinar in Genesis 11? If the LXX translates the word Shinar as Babylon on occasion (seemingly not in Genesis 11), does this reflect when Babylonian Empire was South of Assyrian, or when Babylonian Empire had entirely already swallowed up Assyria? Or in other words, was Babel a place only in Sumer or a place anywhere in the physical geographical region between two rivers, as per the precision "in the land of Shinar"?
I hold to the latter, btw ...
5:08 Indeed, Calvinism was condemned by Trent, and women priests were condemned when they were Montanists, and no one outside Montanism was ordaining women.
I don't know what an "ordained preacher" is, doesn't exist. Someone can preach because he is ordained and stationed at a particular parish (or diocese), and someone can preach with "venia praedicandi" from the bishop, this would involve St. Francis of Assisi, and probably at least internally to the nuns, St. Bridget.
Honest question: What is an example of a fundamentalist atheist?
It would be an atheist who exemplifies the 3 qualities I speak about here. For example:
1. Disagreeing with them is disagreeing with science/facts.
2. Rigid adherence to one point of view: 'energy is only a wave' OR 'energy is only a particle.' They might say something like: 'we know the Bible is a bunch of made up stories to control people through fear.
3. They think they've defeated Christianity when they prove for example that textual variants exist. Or internally on the topic of evolution they assume gradualism with no room for punctuated equilibrium
The important thing that I wanted to get across is that fundamentalism represents a particular mindset regarding epistemology, and this mindset might exist across many different metaphysical perspectives. Metaphysics and epistemology are related, but not in a one to one fashion.
@PastorTanner I agree with the main thrust of your video, and want to emphasize that I enjoyed what I saw. However, just as a small correction, I wanted to point out that these things have nothing to do with atheist fundamentalism. In fact, I don't believe such a thing exists.
@@kylebrooks8528 No problem. I appreciate your thoughts.
Atheist here,
Dude, you sound...piiii,,,,,,iiiissssed.
And I don't blame you. You're right, fundamentalism exposes all kinds of logical fallacies, and general ignorance.
I grew up fundamentalist Baptist, and I sure am glad I grew out of THAT!!
I appreciate your views here, and I pretty much agree completely.
Ha! I’m not angry, but I do see a need for change, and I’m going to call it out. I appreciate your perspective and feedback.
I like this guy. He gets it!
I agree with you and have struggled with fundementalists in the past. Yet, there are also people who pick and choose how to interpret the bible based on their own opinions, instead of trying to figure out what God is saying. For example, it seems that only the fundementalist churches are speaking out against the gay pride movement. In the churchs that have traditionally let people interpret the scriptures on this issue themselves, they are now actively promoting gay pride and pushing it on children.
Yes, there is a lot of messiness in how exactly this works itself out. Particulars are where it gets difficult. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Congrats on keeping it to just three.
5:21 It could be that you misjudge him.
God could have given him the grace to approach Catholic, i e true, doctrine. The examples he gave definitely are not what we would call secondary.
Please Help me I Believe Jesus Is The Son of God and God The Son of The Holy Trinity I Believe Jesus Shed His Blood and Died in my Sins in my place He was Buried Then 3 Days Later Jesus Arose From The Dead!!! But I am struggling with some Sins that I honestly don’t know how to quit I hate my Sins But I genuinely don’t know how to stop them Am I still Saved because of my faith in Jesus or am I Not Saved because of my Sins? Am I born again because of my faith in Jesus or is there something more I need to do? Thank you for All your Help and Time God Bless you
Monica, all Christians are called to repent of their sins: turn away from them and turn to God. Struggles may come, but never give up in your quest to defeat sin. Turn away from it every day. Repent and pray and ask for victory. Keep fighting. God bless you in your journey!
Why is he yelling at me?
You are not the first to point out I speak too loudly . . . I also hear too quickly. Thanks for the feedback.
Great until the very end... he assumes we all agree what is uncompromisable lol. Anyway, a helpful insight into the mentality of fundamentalism. My mother's side of the family is like this. I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy a few years ago, and it's like speaking two different languages. Fundamentalism is impossible to engage with. Lord have mercy!
Great comments.
I’m confused. Specifically to the first sign example of pedo baptism. The Bible teaches one doctrine, both presbyterian and Baptist can’t both be right..right? So, we ought to search the scriptures to see which is what God teaches. 🤷🏽♀️
Thanks for your thoughts rediet.
@@rediet5960 this opinion statement sounds a bit like a fundamentalist response. See minute 3 of this video.
I've noticed this issue when dealing with the issue of womens ministry. Not just in terms of pastoral ministry either. I'm what the person in this video calls a "Classical Fundie". But modern Fundies like to pretend there is no tension at all in the text when it comes to the role of women in the excercise if their spiritual gifts. Despite the fact that their were female leaders, teachers, and even prophets in the Bible (it seems only the apostles were exclusively male), and despite the fact that it is prophesied that daughters will have an outpouring of the holy spirit as well in the future. I'm not saying men and women are the same, but I am saying it's fair to reevaluate old traditions. Its really depressing cause i was a complementarian for the longest time and now Im seeing egalitarians treat the Bible with a lot more care and nuance these days. And I'm being put off by the boneheaded refusal to even consider the other side from so many in my previous camp.
I just want to find a Biblical way to respect my sisters calling and gifts, am i no longer a Christian because of that? Even if Im honestly wrong on this one issue? Honestly i feel God will forgive me if I am, especially since I am doing so out of a desire not to supress the Holy Spirit. But i would ask Fundies: "if your wrong, are you not only guilty of being wrong, but also of supressing the Holy Spirit?"
I think its a dangerous game we play when we tell a woman burning with the spirit to shut up too much. And yes I know what the text says but don't pretend that the examples i mentioned don't exist or are irrelevant either.
Whoah, thanks for the support!
I can understand your frustration with Complementarians. It also seems that there are so many 'versions' of complementarian that it is hard to get straight exactly how much the support or denigrate women. I have two videos regarding complementarianism and egalitarianism on this channel you might find helpful:
ua-cam.com/video/MWxL2gkav8g/v-deo.htmlsi=VvVtyDgtJzTO8ru2
ua-cam.com/video/K5R_s1EmKqo/v-deo.htmlsi=5YKa2H0NoacDLIly
I also think that there is an element to God's progressive revelation on this issue. In a similar way to how the Old Testament developed into the New Testament. This issue isn't 'going away' in my estimation. I would encourage you to continue seeking the Holy Spirit's guidance.
@@PastorTanner thank you for the links. and yes i am seeking the holy spirits support on this issue.
"Family Values" is the new fundamentalism.
Im so glad i left the church and the gospels! There are about 41-45k denominations in Christendom😮
Sounds like you took a few bad apples and spoiled the bunch. My only take away from this is you spoke to some people that weren't very well educated with the bible is all I'm hearing. It's wrong for you to bash fundamentalists as a whole. If this is your mindset, this can be done with every belief system.
I disagree (which is obviously why I made the video), but I appreciate your feedback. I do however agree with you that this can be done with every belief system, which is why I pointed out that I am an 'equal opportunity hater' when it comes to the mindset.
He did say that atheists can be fundamentalist s too. I've often thought that atheists I know are too religious for me.
I grew up with fundamentlism, I went to a fundamentalist college, and I've spoken to fundamentalist PhDs. They give lip service to the idea of nuance and tension and they'll acknowledge that some things are open to interpretation, but then they get dogamtic about their favorite hobby horses, even if they're things that aren't obvious from Scripture--or that aren't in Scripture at all, for that matter. That's part of the problem with the whole thing. It's so unscholarly that even those who are supposed to be educated end up sounding a lot like someone who merely doesn't know better.
Where is the peace? I saw none when watch the video without sound.
Agree
Rabbi, how can I verify the honesty of a business before I put my trust in the business owner?
I ask you this because I am a homemaker in my hometown of Los Angeles, California. In recent years, most of the small businesses that I rely on are "male dominated" third-world men of color. These men are middle-eastern, Asian, South-East Asian, Mexican, South American, Puerto Rican, Near Eastern, Eastern European, Mexican, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs, and Jews sometimes. These folks seem to have a very alien tendency to presume to categorize me, and according to their cultural and religious social and psychological and political traditions, values and beliefs, and laws, or by the restrictions and requirements of their small community. In these various communities, they have their own hierarchy, they have feudal system complete with people whom they regard as their masters "Masters". To me that is ridiculous. It defeats the purpose of freedom and autonomy. I regard all of these cultures, traditions, and heritages as oppressive, and those who attempt to induct by, default, trickery, deceit, chicanery, bamboozle, seduction, subterfuge, guile, deceit, betrayal, drugging, kidnapping,coercion, duress, or Entrapment, or censure, or conquest as motivated by "mens rea", criminal intent, wickedness and an 😈 Evil inclination, swindlers, pirates, bandits, bigamists, bbig amiss, fops, rues, gigalos, womanizer, and serial mogonogamists, and mentally unstable, and personality disordered. The poor things. Being wicked has its disadvantages. I honestly do feel sorry for them, for the oppressed women and the men too. But not sorry enough to join their ranks nor cooperate with them. Moreover, I have recognized the fact that the State Courts are a primary source of wickedness among people of all types. If it's wickedness-generating, and fee-generating, the State Courts will actually manufacture relationships specifically for the wicked results that arise out of the sick, twisted, malignant fatal relationships and personalities. Such people live to generate noir, they love darkness, sorrow, anguish, illness, sickness, crookedness, squabbles, bickering, violence, murder, scars, bruises, scars, broken bones, bandages, Intimidation Menace, mismanagement, unfair surprise, fear, terror, misfortune, nosiness, Slander, Backfiring, Backsliding, fatal attraction, folly, robbery, car jacking, theft, shoplifting, traffic tickets, car accidents, training accidents, war, hold-ups, assassinations, home invasion, mass murder, iniquity, cocktail fighting, dog fighting, blood shed, blood sports. gun fights, dueling, dangerous games, shark attacks, plain crashes, massacres, disasters, rape, prison riots, jail riots, jail beatings, tough guys, mobsters, hangings, executions, deaths, miscarriages, molestation, hostility, belligerence, failures, defeats, deformity, injury, false arrest, false imprisonment, travesty, miscarriage of justice, ruin.
Sincerely,
gospelgirl
So this is the State Courta generate, because this what it needs to survive and its pursuit of happiness, believe it or not.
I am deeply sorry but these people are
I have a tendency to presume that so long as this country is under the United States 🇺🇸 flag, so long as I have a President, and a Vice President, and a United States Congress, my traditions, and heritage, and legacy, will remain American identity.
Sincerely.
gospelgirl
So if I agree to disagree, where do I stand? Great video, two thumbs up.
Seems like a good place to be to me. :)
2:45 Our Lord Jesus once told some people that St. John retroactively qualifies as "Jews" though he elsewhere shows Jesus would _not_ have used the word that way:
*For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me.*
If you insist every book, chapter, verse of all the Bible is "interpretation" ... how do you deal with Our Lord expecting His words to be _verifiable_ (and in fact _verified_ by people living 45 miles or 73 km from Thessalonica, if you know where Berea is on a map)?
Please see Mark D. Siljander's book. Are you familiar with him? It's okay if you haven't heard of him. He is a follower of Jesus. He is a republican (former) member of Congress from Michigan.
Siljander had been the Member of Congress from Michigan's fourth district from 1981 to 1987. His book, 'Deadly Misunderstanding' recounts Siljander's amazing discoveries as he traveled to some of the most remote and hostile places in the world-deep into Libya, Sudan, Pakistan, and India-forging deep ties with both heads of state and religious leaders.
P.S. in the 1980s, Siljander was a newly minted Reagan Republican from Michigan who joined Congress in the same generation as Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay... a staunch member of the Religious Right, he once walked out of the National Prayer Breakfast when a speaker quoted from the Qur'an.
But after losing reelection, Siljander dove into the Bible to look for the passage in which the Bible says it is our job as Christians to convert others in order to save them from eternal damnation. He couldn't find it; in fact, he couldn't even find a passage saying that Jesus set out to form a new religion. This discovery was the first step on a spiritual and political journey that started with an in-depth
linguistic study of the Bible and led to the discovery that Christianity and Islam share many base words and concepts.
His book, 'Deadly Misunderstanding' recounts Siljander's amazing discoveries as he travels to some of the most remote and hostile places in the world-deep into Libya, Sudan, Pakistan, and India-forging deep ties with both heads of state and religious leaders. What he has learned could radically shift the contemporary religious landscape and help heal the rift between Islam and the West. No Christian or Muslim will be unaffected after reading this book.
@@johnmguzman7491 Jesus was _completing_ the religion He had started founding when creating the angels.
It's not our job to "convert" but it is our job to argue for conversion, most obviously that of the bishops, who are successors of the Apostles, and hence direct recipients of the injunction and promise in Matthew 28:16--20.
reading from a book, that has been edited and re-edited into a language that is not remotely close to the language used in over 2000 years ago, with nuance and writing style that is not used in todays textbooks, mixed with men, who read with prideful natures, and lack of good reading skills, and we see the fruition of this. Add in the fact, that we have no idea of what books or scrolls were excluded into compiling the bible, the intention of the writers, and and the purpose of the bible in the first place. This is precisely why J.W's exist. What could possibly go wrong with and average, low edumacated man reading the bible?
Interesting take, Garth. Thanks for your thoughts.
If we are to be blindly compliant with any government under any circumstances… What does that mean for a Christian family in a more restrictive region of China?
Does a member of that family have an obligation to inform on his family and ensure their maximum punishment under communist law?
Also… wouldn’t that be a pretty big leap away from the nuance that you claim to center your “theology” around?
Side note but does all this theological flexibility ALWAYS (or nearly always) bring your “Christian” views more in line with the views of secular society and if so…. Does that tell you anything?
Reflect on Matthew 18:6, try to find a way to digest that verse that makes you feel really yummy about modifying Christianity to fit what is deemed acceptable by the secular world.
But . . . Who is John Galt?
John Galt
5 days ago (edited)
If we are to be blindly compliant with any government under any circumstances… What does that mean for a Christian family in a more restrictive region of China?
You obey the goverment ,governing principles that are yours,
What you pay attention to,in your thoughts,emotions,subconcious doings.
Those are in rule over you etc etc
Most is about internal mind,thought,spirit stuff..
Lie ,wives be obidient to husband ,etc etcor obey the husband etc
Thats you,
Your will,your soul,being married to truth ,The Spirit
and its kinda dual in many parts
I mean Wasnt Abraham married to his sister.Literally.
And
Check out uncover the feet or lay at his feet,and dont forget washing of the feet etc,
What hidden ,obscured meanings were in those ?
some if not all thu buybull was written for external ,deviant compliance and control of people..
Caesar's Messiah
Book by Joseph Atwill.
Anacalypsis.
The lost Light by Kuhn.
Any book by Elaine Pagels
Gnostic gospels
Adam Eve and the Serpent
Etcetc
10.18.2022
Dont ferget Thomas Paine
He lost me when he sits in a church building, when he gave himself authority to lord over the congregation, and when he also has his own particular set of doctrines, such as the "believer's baptism". He, in the simplist of essence, is also a fundamentalist because you better agree with him or else? I'm sure his heart is in the right place to be a believer and a child of God. But he has a long way to go in his walk with Jesus because he's wrapped up in buildings, taking collection of money, and dwells in the psychobabble of theology talk. Thief on the cross anyone?
"How does the thief on the cross fit into your theology? No baptism, no communion, no confirmation, no speaking in tongues, no mission trip, no volunteerism, and no church clothes. He couldn't even bend his knees to pray. He didn't say the sinner's prayer and among other things, he was a thief. Jesus didn't take away his pain, heal his body, or smite the scoffers. Yet it was a thief who walked into heaven the same hour as Jesus simply by believing. He had nothing more to offer other than his belief that Jesus was who he said he was. No spin from brilliant theologians. No ego or arrogance. No Shiny lights, skinny jeans, or crafty words. No haze machine, donuts, or coffee in the entrance. Just a naked dying man on a cross unable to even fold his hands to pray."
Quite a few assumptions are being made here. I don’t blame you given that it is impossible to fully research or vet very individual person, but suffice it to say that most of your criticisms of me are simply caricatures and don’t actually reflect my own beliefs or values.
Science is not open to interpretation in the same way that scripture is. In the case of science, we have millions of scientists alive today and we can ask them the exact meaning of scientific things. And it doesn’t make me a fundamentalist to tell people that their views disagree with science. By your logic, if I tell a flat Earther that their views disagree with the science I must be a fundamentalist, but really I would be correct and not a fundamentalist.
I think we're categorically missing each other here. The 3 statements I made can be applied to science or religion regardless of epistemology. My statements concern the tenacity and closedmindedness with which the beliefs are held, independent of their origin. Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions demonstrates that the scientific community is no more immune to operating paradigms than religion is (again, even though their epistemological approaches are often vastly different.)
I am an atheist but I love this stuff.
I see no conflict with obeying the government and obeying God, because, duh, God is the one telling you to obey the government.
Thanks for your thoughts, Brian. Take care.
I think the Christian should using different levels of openness and uncompromising depending on the situation. I will probably be a lot more open talking to a Presbyterian about baptism, but with a member of my church, I will be more uncompromising. Same with LGBTQ issues. Talking to my lesbian co worker, I will be much more open and understanding since she is an unbeliever. But talking to a Christian, I will be far more uncompromising on LGBTQ issues.
You should be much more open and accepting of others such as LBGTQ community your faith shouldn't have anything to do with how open you are to diversity or not faith is not a virtue and I don't understand how anyone can follow a made-up ancient entity that they can't even prove exist or ever existed
@@MissHeidi103 on that note can you prove or disprove that it exists? Can you prove that the Bible isn't true?
I'm a Christian and I don't want to listen to you go on about LGBTQ issues, I cannot be the only one. I never heard so much about it before I became a Christian and if I look for Christian content it is all people going on about gay people and how much they hate / pretend to love them. And then there is the women's ordination and complementarian / egalitarian issue and having to hear over and over all kinds of sexist crap, including stuff not remotely supported by scripture. I'm tired of it. Can't we just talk about Jesus and invite others to the Kingdom?
Fundamentalists love to quote the Bible, but I noticed that they rarely quote the Gospels, the words of Jesus. They seem to prefer any other part of the Bible. I wonder if it's not because Jesus Christ was so fiercely critical of fundamentalism that the fundamentalists of his time killed him.
The Jewish religious leaders who opposed Jesus weren't fundamentalists; they neither knew nor followed the scriptures, and substituted their own laws for God's laws.
I've noticed that too. They never or rarely quote Jesus because Jesus was reasonable and loving. Fundamentalists are neither reasonable or loving.
@@orbyfan God's law is to love your neighbor as yourself and to love God. Upon those two rests all of of God's laws and the words of the prophets. Why make it so divisionary and complicated?
*except for the one specific line where he tells the woman caught in adultery "go and sin no more."
@@sublimelystumbling Yes, he tells her to go and sin no more. Notice, how he doesn't tell her Woe to you, the way he says it to the self-righteous Pharisees. Notice how he doesn't warn her about the difficulties of getting into the kingdom of God, the way he warns a rich man. Notice how he doesn't get angry with her the way he gets angry with traders in the temple. And notice, how he protects her from those who wanted to kill her, by diverting their attention to their own sins and so suggesting her sins weren't greater than their own.
If Jesus was mainly calling out adulterous women on their sins, he would have been loved by the Pharisees. But he was mainly calling out the self righteous, the teachers of the law, the religious folks on their hypocrisy, while dining and making friends with women of questionable reputation and other people despised in society. That's why they hated him so much.
I'm not saying that adultery is okay, and of course Jesus didn't say it anywhere in the Gospels. But it seems that hypocrisy was a greater sin in his eyes than human weakness. Peace to you my friend.
I think this is fair
Thank you. I try to be fair whenever possible.
WHY ARE YOU YELLING INTO A MICROPHONE? - The content is great in this video, but the yelling is stopping me from sharing it though.
Appreciate the feedback, Joshua. I routinely hear that I speak both too loudly AND too quickly. Always helpful to work on my deficiencies.
@@PastorTanner Thank you for replying. I really think that you made some great points.
OMG - this pastor does reminds me very much to the fundamentalism bible freaks - it triggers me to much - so I had to quit listening to what he has to say. Can´t take it anymore.
They drive me crazy.
Show me on the chart where the fundamentalist hurt you…. And this is coming from a guy who’s leaving fundamentalism. I’m sure this video really impresses James White.
Very broad swipe.
Was Jesus a fundamentalist? Did he preach the teachings of the kings that came before him? Did he cut people's tongues out for wrong-speak? He got crucified by the dictator of his time, so I'm guessing not.
Gods word never changes.
That’s why I put all my faith in King James when he decided to get it right once and for all in 1604. He wanted something that reflected the current church in England. God bless the 47 men the king picked that would help shape my belief system along with supporting my first sentence that….
Gods word never changes!!! HAYMEN!!!
5:50 Now, fine enough ... "Fundamentalism of this sort" ... you have _not_ brought up whether you'd admit it is a primary doctrine Adam was directly created, with no biological ancestry.
Pius XII tried to treat it as secondary, but he could not define it as secondary. A Pope can define, from what he sees, as primary doctrine, i e as dogma.
He cannot definitely say for the rest of history "this position is just secondary" ... one never knows in advance, when a previously seen as secondary doctrine turns out for some reason to be primary. The only things he can really define for the rest of history are infallible things. And an infallible thing, by the fact of being so, is a primary doctrine.
I had once been of the idea, that Quo Primum (about the Traditional Latin Mass) could be non-doctrinal, therefore non-infallible, but _still_ binding on all successors. I recently saw a debate article from 77 state that it was simply _not_ just disciplinary, but doctrinal, and _that's_ why it could be binding on all successors, not just binding on all future _barring_ changes by successors, as the wording was also interpreted.
So much more can a "right now, the teaching authority does not forbid that" (on Humani Generis) not be eternally binding because it's not an infallible statement, when it even says "right now" in close synonym in the text.
That Adam had no biological ancestry was not just taken for granted by all centuries, but is implicit in ...
* God's goodness to Adam, should the hypothetical biological ancestry, despite common anatomy, be non-human
* God's goodness to us, in punishing us for his sin, if he was _not_ the human from which all other humans come.
Btw, that Adam is not a figure of speech for a collective, is already defined as dogma, Trent Session V.
Plus, making the first and that momentuous sin a collective one is in fact a kind of supralapsarian Calvinism, horrible heresy, since collectives as such do not exercise free will, only the individuals that constitute them can exercise it, or any other faculty of the soul.
Obedient to governments is biblical until it becomes tyrannical.
I’ve had many difficult conversations with people on this topic especially surrounding COVID. Thanks for your quick summary.
@@PastorTanner by the way, I LOVE this video! Wholeheartedly agree with everything you are saying here
Very kind of you. Thank you very much.
The Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded. Scriptural opinions contrary to the Catholic Church cannot be the truth.
This is one take on the subject. I appreciate you sharing.
preacher you made a fundamental error..
you confuse fundamentalists with cults ..
replace fundamental with cult and it becomes far more clear
I have no interest in semantics. Define words as you see fit. As long as there is clarity in what is being communicated I'm happy for you to refer to these categories however you like.
@@PastorTanner
traditionally fundamentalism that which ascribes to the fundamentals of Christianity.. like trinity. the blood... the cross ..
ect..
what you mentioned is principles of cultism.. I was born in the amish cult they act out all 3 of you examples .. !
God bless
Could it be YOU were wrong in the matter of obeying "government"? The midwives, Moses' parents, Daniel, Hananiah, Azariah, Mishael, Esther and Mordecai, Peter, and Paul "disobeyed government" directly and were blessed of God! Could it be that James White and you are wrong about the fundamentals of Calvinism? I was born into Calvinism of the Dutch Reformed, but I discovered I was predestinated NOT to be a Calvinist. I also discovered of my freewill that I reject Arminianism.
Sure, but the rightness or wrongness to me does not impact my argumentation here. Here I am saying that the nuance or tension of competing claims in the text should lead to our being more tentative or cautious regarding our conclusions. It is this inability to be tentative that causes the ‘fundamentalism’ in my eyes.
@@PastorTanner I agree that fundamentalism especially Baptists are often set in their ways, but other "fundamentalists" like you limit the beliefs of God to a small set of fundamentals. The understanding of the God of the Bible is infinite; therefore, any group with a small set of beliefs is limiting the "enlightenment" of another. I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian because both groups limit God to a small set of beliefs.
‘like you’ - this is the only statement I take issue with. Most of my Calvinistic content is relatively older. A person can grow a lot in 2-3 years. My epistemology is dramatically different than it was when I recorded those videos. Again, there is more way you could’ve known all this, so no offense taken.
Fundamentalism destroyed my faith and I lost God'love. This is a black or white doctrine and make fundamentalists judgmental to others with different point of view. They are intolerent and think "they are in the truth". But the fruits are bad and not those oh the Holy Spirit. Today I turned to catholic church and feel much more better.
Thanks for the comment, Sissi. While I am not Roman Catholic myself, I can understand somebody moving in that direction. I pray God guides and directs your steps as you continue on your journey.
Fundamentalism equals fanaticism.
I can see the comparison. I might separate their semantic domains a but more than that, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
where were you 60 years ago when the Christian Fundamentalist were creating your modern world. You say Right-Wing without any idea how this has come to pass. Ever hear of IBLP? Or ATI? How about the Joshua Generation? These fundamentalist have been preparing this end game for generations. You probably "loved" 19 and counting (the reality show about about the Duggar family put out by TLC network. They had conferences all over the country filling stadiums with people willing to be converted to a form of culture designed to be able to not only overthrow the government but tp create a conservatives "utopia". They raised children designed for this assault on democracy. While Americans had their heads where the sun don't shine. They got people elected that shared their views, got their children in as interns and clerks for all the "right wing" politicians, and even to Supreme Court judges. If I was to use a chess analogy; its checkmate on democracy as you know it. Sorry to break the news, but it wasn't a secret.
This is an interesting take. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist.
There is no room for interpretation when it comes to the Bible. Every word is given by God. Revelation says you shouldn’t add or subtract to any words in the Bible.
If the Bible isn’t authoritative, what is? The world will go to hell unless somebody proclaims the absolute authority of the Bible and everything in it. Jesus said He was and is the only way. There is no other way but by Him. I don’t see much room for interpretation in those texts.
Apparently you’re allowed to have an opinion about fundamentalists but we can’t say anything about you. If you think we’re snobby, you are allowed to say so. If we think (according to the Bible, not necessarily our interpretation of the Bible) you are a heretic, we shouldn’t say so because that’s “intolerant” or “hateful” or “not being open-minded”. I don’t see Jesus being very open-minded when he called the Jews a generation of vipers. I don’t see Jesus being very open-minded when he called Peter Satan for having a personal opinion about what Jesus said about Himself.
When it comes down to it, the Bible is authoritative. The Roman Catholic Church is not. The Presbytery is not. The Archbishop of Canterbury is not. The Southern Baptists are not. If my pastor, whom I love dearly, were to say something contradictory to the Bible, I would call him a heretic. There’s no such thing as a secondary doctrine. If it’s in the Bible, it’s truth. God’s Word is elevated above even His own name. There is no reason to think anything in the Bible is up for debate or subject to being called “secondary” or “tertiary”. Which doesn’t show up in scripture by the way.
One of David’s mighty men of valor stood alone in a field of lentils and fought the Philistines, risking his life, to save it. He literally was willing to die for a field of lentils. It doesn’t get much more secondary than that.
Daniel risked his life for a dietary law. 10,000 Jewish COWARDS (like you) went along with everything else happening in their day and age. Daniel wouldn’t have risked his life for a secondary doctrine if he was a ”free-thinking “ modernist or liberal.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego were willing to burn alive for something that 10,000 other Jewish young men considered a secondary doctrine.
Every word in the Bible is given by God. The Bible is pure and perfect and needs no addition or subtraction. The church doesn’t need to change with the culture of the day. There’s no room for budging on that.
Do you think I like dressing in a conservative manner? No. Do you think I necessarily like conservative music? No. Do you think I like hearing a pastor preach directly about the sins in my life? No. Do I agree with the Bible 100% of the time? No. If I were God, would I do things differently? Absolutely. But I’m not. Unlike you, I don’t worship my own opinions, and I’m not afraid of being ostracized for the cause of Christ.
I know this was a long comment, but it needs to be said. I hope at least one person will read this through and realize the need for truth in a changing world. Realizing that God’s Word doesn’t change, despite the world and your personal opinions changing constantly, gives an incredible level of peace.
Matthew 11:28-30 KJV
thank you.
Hang on, basically everyone in the Bible is a Jew. Jesus wasn't calling "the Jews" anything, he was himself born under the law and circumcised and all his family and followers were Jews in the beginning. Jesus was fighting a legalistic, unloving and false interpretation of God's law. An interpretation where people can be made to suffer without good reason and the Pharisees didn't care because they only cared about being basically... fundamentalists.
For hundreds of years Christians didn't even have The Bible. First because it wasn't compiled until hundreds of years after Jesus' death, and after that because they couldn't access it; it might have been illegal, or they couldn't read, or too expensive. Are you saying that an early Christian who never held a Bible in their hands and maybe couldn't read it, who maybe loved Jesus so much they allowed themselves to be martyred, are you saying they don't meet your definition of a proper Christian? Do you understand how modern people all owning Bibles and reading them literally is???
I wish you all the best and I hope you would do the same for me Brother. I pray one day we meet in the Kingdom of Heaven. I think we will both discover how little we each know about God. Be well and God bless xx
I agree There is no room for interpretation when it comes to the Bible
There's a difference between "authoritative" and "obvious". Yes, the Bible is authoritative. But sometimes it's not obvious what it means. That's when we have to study. And that's when Christians who fully believe in the authority of the Bible may disagree with each other. If the Bible was always obvious, why did Paul tell Timothy he needed to /study/ the Word (2 Tim. 2:15)? Why did Peter say some of Paul's writings were hard to understand (2 Peter 3:16)? They weren't questioning the authority of Scripture; they were saying it takes work to understand it.
And Jesus Himself interpreted the Bible. In Mark 12, He defended the resurrection of the dead by appealing to the passage in Exodus 3 where God told Moses “I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” Am, not was. Since Abraham was long dead by that time, and God is not the God of the dead, that meant Abraham was alive somewhere. There was a resurrection of the dead. Nowhere did the text in Exodus 3 say that. It was an inference. But it was one that Jesus Himself drew. (Mark 12:26-27). So we absolutely should interpret the Bible and we’re kidding ourselves if we think we’re not.
And nowhere does the Bible say that we should dress in a conservative manner or listen to conservative music. By your own standard, you just added to Scripture. Or, more charitably, you’ve interpreted certain passages to mean that. Because the Bible doesn’t “just say that” anywhere.
It also says you shouldn't add or subtract from the Bible in the Old Testament. The New Testament was added to the Old. Should we therefore discard the New Testament, following your own logic?
It would appear that God was a big fan of us holding personal opinions. He said, "Come, let us reason together." Jesus said "Don't judge by mere appearances, but rather make a righteous judgement." He apparently thought that men could think on their own. Do you think that's why he gave us such big brains? That he meant for us to use them? Or was he just wasting his time giving us the ability to think and to exercise our free will?
Atheist fundamentalist? lol
Hopefully the video made clear why I think this is a possible category. Take care.
-tanner
Your example of adult vs infant baptism as an example of "fundamentalism" is a bad one. Because the scriptures are crystal clear on that. There are no infant baptisms in the NT. All the baptisms are adults of consenting age. Plus scripture teaches that baptism is a symbol of the washing away of sins, repenting of ongoing sin and coming up out of the water to a new life in Christ. Babies cannot consciously or even unconsciously sin, so that symbolism and spiritual significance is meaningless.
As long as their traditions don't hurt you or themselves, it's ok. Let's respect each other.
Households were baptized, households contain infants.
This guy is just a little too uptight
Like a fundamentalist....
But a fundamentalist wants to make others uptight.
For me, the bible does not hold any special place in my life. It is a collection of myths with the occasional bit of history. The old testament god is a horrible, mean, capricious tyrant. The new testament is better, but is still full of myths. I like to stay in the present and have science and reason guide my living. I find that much more effective than religion ever was for me. Religion is not necessary to lead a moral life.
There is only ONE way to interpret Scriptures, not a million. God's words are perfect and true and the only way to interpret His Word is His way. Let His words reveal their truth. Don't read into the Bible and cherry pick to get what you want to hear out of it. God's Word stands on its own.
I’m generally in agreement, but I believe an inherent part of the Word is that it is multivalent. I believe part of the word is that it is deliberately designed by God to be BOTH historically AND spiritually true.