Extreme Switch Overclocking - Can we run Breath of the Wild at 60fps ?
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
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With the recent Gamescom report that new next generation Nintendo hardware was shown running a tech demo of Breath of the Wild at 4k @ 60FPS, in today's episode I break out the modded Mariko revision OLED Nintendo Switch and perform some extreme overclocking to see what clock speeds we need to hit 60fps on current generation Nintendo Switch hardware.
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► 4IFIR Overclocking Suite - github.com/ras...
► Nintendo Switch OLED Model (affiliate link) - amzn.to/46cCQfp
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#Switch #BOTW #60FPS
Wanted to note that I have no knowledge of Next Gen Nintendo hardware specs and everything in this episode discussing next gen hardware is just my guesswork, thoughts, opinions and speculation.
Sure 😉
NX2 specs have been examined at face value by Eurogamer and other sources. 12gb ram (commercial), amphere cores lovelace, 8" LCD display, 5nm/4nm chip and DLSS 3.1 (rx).
the dev of 4ifir steals code, lies and bullies other open source devs. please dont feature his cobbled together code. he is toxic and hurts the scene.
So developers that don't make this disclaimer are clearly under an NDA 😂
@@kamala7101it's ampere GPU architecture. Not lovelace. And it can't be both.
It will be a smaller gpu than the RTX 3050 but will have RT and Tensor cores
This guy is so modern……and vintage at the same time.
Some would say he's also a gamer
As though he is a Modern Vintage Gamer.
The perfect combination.. 👍🏿🔥❤️
I know. It's disgusting. He's a gamer too!
He's so hot too ♥
it’s insane that gpu & cpu are maxing at 80% further solidifying it as being a memory issue for the switch.
I noticed that too. Actually crazy how much performance was left on the table.
@@Hayden_M_KearneyCrazy Nintendo has always did that.. They been doing this nonsense since the Super Nintendo..
No surprise the switch memory bandwith is lower than the ps3
Memory bandwidth is the thing that gets nerfed the most when you go down from high end GPUs to mid and low end, or from desktop to laptop GPUs
@@kenrickeason exactly. I remember even the N64 being nerfed due to having a slow and low bandwidth shared memory bus. The CPU and RDP were actually really powerful at the time but the memory subsystem really handicapped the console.
It's actually super impressive how well Switch runs games at that wattage. Yea it is a lot weaker than the other consoles were, but look at that power draw.
low level APIs with minimal OS overhead can do some pretty incredible things. Imagine the Steam Deck if it didn't have to run a bloated operating system and a latent translation layer.
Yeah compared to other consoles using 200 watts this is great
More impressive is that it's only using ten times the power of an original GameBoy, but it's thousands of times 'better', however you want to measure 'better'.
@@dcarpenter85steam OS isn't that bloated
@@Mantenner very true, compared to Windows or Android for example. But it’s still a lot more bloated than most console OS like you find on the Switch or the PS5. There is a lot of Linux stuff happening under the hood and you have things like desktop mode eating up resources.
I run TotK at 60 FPS with overclocking and FPSLocker. You can actually play 90% of the Switch library like this using OC.
Seems kinda risky though. Only the OLED model has the new chip that has more power for overclocking, and homebrew needs chip modification.
A V1 I would not push so hard, damages are very likely to occur.
So the OLED chip mod is already expensive, you are at about 600-800 for a new OLED with a homebrew mod, to allow for overclocking.
Then then you can run it hotter. Its a bit of a gamble that you have to be willing to take.
@@livinliciousthat's not true. All redbox/retail switches right now are mariko. If you have 6 hours of battery life on breath of the wild. Or just check the serial code. Or if your purchase is after 2021. You have a mariko.
@@livinliciousany base Switch made after 2018, Lite, or OLED is going to have Mariko hardware, you still have to do a modchip install but you probably won't have to buy an entire new Switch for it
This would be good for Pokemon Scarlet and Violet I remember that game lagging in a lot of places on my switch.
@@livinlicious I have a red box Switch V2 with a Mariko chip. I keep it at safe clocks, the battery just drains a bit faster than normal, but not as much as you'd think. MVG failed to mention that overclocking is 100% safe if you use it correctly, and it can be used 100% of the times you use your modded Switch.
Hey MVG, here is one thing I've already noticed in the last video: Your mic is crackling just a tiny bit. You can't really hear it until you crank up the volume, but once you hear it it is impossible to not notice it!
you can also hear it in this video
Yeah, it's pretty noticeable in this video.
I’m aware of it .should be fixed next video
@@ModernVintageGamer Still sounded good in my high-end headphones. Crackling, sure, but the quality is still there. No big deal.
Have you tried the newer 1.7 version? It now ships with a parameter tweaking tool as well, and also some better GPU undervolting, which reduces heat and power draw in stock scenarios
I'm still on 4IFIR version 1.6, when did you update?
does it work on 16.1.0?
Last time I tried 1.6 it would just crash on atmosphere boot. Did fresh install and hekate was freaking out that nyx was outdated.
@@jujuu1339 4IFIR 1.7 Placebo compatible with latest HOS, available from built in AIO installer: AIO > Custom > Placebo > 4IFIR 1.7
@@jujuu1339yes now it’s work
1.8
DLSS on a console should be very good. Having a single specific hardware configuration should make optimising it so much better.
It'll be interesting to see all the tech analysis once the switch 2 launches.
Well games have used FSR on PS5/Xbox series and results have been fairly mixed leaning to poor. For instance, Jedi survivor is going as low as 720p trying to upscale to 1440p and it's visually disgusting. DLSS in general is superior to FSR but it'll still depend on the devs to implement it well.
only issue I have with DLS is developers use it as a crutch.
Since DLSS is applied on a per game level it feels like something that would be tied to consoles anyway. I could definitely see Nintendo using it in their exclusive games to push up their image quality further. MonolithSoft especially with Xenoblade.
@@steve833333 it's still a lot of work to get good results. They have to produce high detailed training frames for essentially the whole game the "old-fashioned" way. I don't see why that's considered a "crutch" if the hardware is otherwise limited and can't produce a high res image natively.
@@devilmikey00FSR is NOT DLSS. FSR is much later in the raster/render pipeline than DLSS, and leaves much more artifacts, and isn't as efficient. Not to mention FSR is a software solution, DLSS is hardware.
I express my deep gratitude to you, personally from me, and from the glorious community of my project.
And I have great news, right now, on my workbench, there is an update with the ability to deeply undervolt the CPU. And take my word for it, it will not disappoint you. The OLED test sample is completely stable at a frequency of ~2.8 GHz with a voltage of only 1.205 volts. Savings in several frequency steps are observed already from a base frequency of 1 GHz. This is a breakthrough! Soon.
your community play totk 60fps before release 🙃
Man, 4ifir is the absolute beast, thank you!
Love this man
4ifir is the best one out there!
Thanks bro. Your project makes people happy.
Interesting! It appears that a patch may be necessary to fix physics, notably for the enemy models. Usually in combat, a final blow with a weapon launches an enemy away from Link. In this video, they appear to simply collapse to the ground.
That's the physics being designed for 30fps and playing the game at 60fps messes that up.
There is a 60fps mod that fixes the physics of enemies.
I remember exactly that happening back when I played Zelda BotW at 60 FPS in Cemu (Wii U emulator).
Saw your colab with DF, I thought it was a little weird when you said you didn't have a modded Mariko. Glad to hear that's not the case. Overclocking on the OLED makes 1.1.0 of TOTK such a perfect experience.
Probably being DL, never know if Nintendo ninjas will strike. Big scari
@@BBWahooEtika has gone through this, "nintendo ninjas"
@@DowneyMax
What happened to etika anyways? Been a while
@@BBWahoo God..
@@BBWahoo😢
I only pushed the memory clocks on my Switch by one notch over stock. I left everything else alone, and that gave me a decent increase in experience on the games I play most.
You can almost TDP-freely use Optimized freqs as well, they highly undervolted, and comparable with stock power draw (+20%)
@@Lachesis3D how can i done that, i got my oled with atmos, whats next step i never did overclock or something else, can u tell me a tutorial to follow
@@stultorumjunior just Google "4IFIR". First link will guide you.
@@stultorumjunior Hi, just Google "4IFIR", first link
I always thought a power dock idea would be pretty cool. When you hook the switch up to this theoretical dock it raises clocks (pretty sure they are only this low for simple battery constraints), gives the deck more thermal headroom, and of course offer more power.
Just so you know 4IFIR reads as “chifir” (it’s a very very strong black tea to the point that it becomes alcoholic/drug), because there is also a Russian AIO repack of Atmosphere called “kefir” (it’s like a drinkable yogurt)
I had no idea you could already mod oled switches. That’s awesome!
You can mod any model. Just you need a v1 switch to be able to mod without a mod chip
@@cakes1831yeah, modchip is a no go for me because I don't have the skill to do it. I want a modded Xbox 360 because 7th gen has so many great games. No one near me can do it either. I don't like emulation of Xbox 360, PS3, and Switch because of shader caching. Native hardwares are so convenient.
I want to see you overclocking it in Faron. That place ALWAYS causes massive frame drops and has since BOTW.
Korok forest so much worse
I crunched some numbers assuming the Orin SOC was what went into the next Switch and I estimate it would be capable of BOTW at a stable 1080p60 native at handheld level power draw, and 1440p60+AI upscaling to 4k at docked level power draw should be possible. Given that the next generation SOC called Thor was announced last year, if it's what ends up in the next generation switch, even 4k60 native might not be out of the realm of possibility.
But keep in mind that although BOTW looks very good, even when rendered at 4k, it relies heavily on aesthetic design choices to mask a lack of detail that is expected from games you'll find on current generation consoles. An Orin SOC based Switch would have less than 20% of the theoretical graphical power of the PS5, and there is little chance that we're talking about a 5x theoretical generational improvement from Thor. It will be much better than the current switch but unless Nintendo makes some huge changes, it's still not going to compete with current gen consoles in graphical fidelity.
Reminder that if they were using DLSS 3 frame generation, which they could be if the switch 2 chip runs in the lovelace architecture, that means that the game only needed to hit 40 fps natively to "run" at 60 fps
Just want to chime in and say that "4IFIR" is actually intended to be pronounced as "chee fear" (at least that's a close enough approximation in English). The number "four" there stands for the sound "ch" since the first letter of the word "four" in most slavic languages is pronounced as "ch" and the name itself references a type of tea known as "Chifir".
Very very very strong black tea
Prison tea basically
Скоро американцы будут по понятиям общаться 😂😂😂😂
Yes, unfortunately, it came to me too late that the name of my project, understandable to the Slavs, is completely unreadable for English-speaking users. Excuse me...
@@Lachesis3D может в гайд на гитхабе добавить транскрипцию названия? Энивей большинство англоговорящих юзеров чифира так или иначе туда заглядывают
Nice video MVG👏🏽 I hope next week you cover the crappy performance of MK1 on the Switch 😓 maybe this same overclocking method could help it perform better because as it stands now, I feel like I was robbed😭
If you're buying a fighting game on switch you are not serious about it in the first place
You kind of did it to yourself
@@Neopumper666ah shut up, you can be pro on any console. I had a friend who played Fortnite and sniped people who didn't even show up in the draw distance because h was on switch. If YOU can't do it, that's a skill issue. stop gatekeeping loser
@@Neopumper666 DNF duel, Omen Of Sorrow and The Jojo B.A. game run fine on my switch. I understand the graphical styles aren’t like MK1, but they released a sub-par product with glitches, freezes and just an unplayable experience.
@Rafael.De.La.Ghetto Do some research next time before buying into a new game release. There's no excuse for being blind-sided by a bad port in 2023.
@@strangestecho5088 your argument is invalid sir. This was a $70 game release that went thru quality control and test screenings. Theres no way this should have been released in this state. The issue is MK1 specific, doesnt apply to most of the switch library. Whoever signed off on this was like “eff it bro lets get this money”💸
I think the player should be left to decide between battery and performance. Nintendo should have a physical button on the console to toggle between power saving mode and performance mode. I play 99% in dock mode so power saving doesn't matter much to me, I would rather have the performance but the option should always be there for us to decide.
Doesn’t the dock already do that? Playing a game in docked mode usually gives better graphics.
Normally I'd say this is an optimization nightmare, but then I remember games already do this, just with power being handheld and performance being docked.
@@sween64correct, docked it goes a bit better but still on a very "safe" level.
Nintendo could push the system way further. But there are probably good reasons they won't do that. One of them the hardware might fail much faster.
Agreed. Nintendo could’ve done this with the V2 switch, since the newer X1 runs much more efficiently, so it wouldn’t overheat like the V1 switch would. Also better thermal paste makes a huge difference. I had replaced my V1 switch’s thermal paste, and the fan was way less loud. I wasn’t doing any modded stuff (turns out it’s a patched V1), I was just playing animal crossing. But I think to make it less confusing and keep consistency with the generation of the console, they didn’t opt for a performance mode
@@sween64Well, Botw runs in higher resolution on Dock but even so the resolution is better in portable mode because the resolution of the TV is higher than the game
Love the videos, and this doesn't matter at all it's just an observation, perhaps constructive, your camera appears to have a very high iso setting, you may be able to have less static in the a-roll if you adjust the settings, if you like
i actually got botw to run at 60fps lock on an erista v1, the only problem youre about to pretty much encounter is the fans being louder than a jet engine
how you do it? can you do it on lite ver and what’s the risk?
@@phantom0823 same thing as what mvg did, just with the extra cooling help of air conditioning and extra airflow, and no its not possible on the switch lite as it is weaker than a switch, only risk imo is overheat and the soc dying if it gets too hot
@@OfficerPedroAlvarez ithink lite has v2 switch cpu
>tool known as four-ifir [4ifir]
He-he, that's not four-ifir, that's che-fear.
It's not surprising really, if you know that the switch is severely undercooked in the first place and BOTW was a unrefined port from the Wii U, not designed to fully utilise the switch's capabilities.
Id love to see someone just for fun mod their switches cooler to accommodate the overclocking (for 24/7 use etc.).
Well I didn't realize that's what I did when me and my friends replaced the fan but we put some good ass thermal paste and a more efficient fan and my shit running oc but the fan be blowing😭
Patched the game to work at 60 fps and oc'd the console with sys-clk-oc to 1683 @ CPU, 768 @ GPU and 1996 @ DRAM, gives me around 50-60fps, even on handheld mode with around 6W of power. It's crazy!
Legit?
@@RvEllorquez I changed my sys-clk-oc to a custom one and undervolted the switch. Now ~1400 @ CPU, ~900 @ GPU and 2400 @ DRAM gives me stable 60fps even in Kakariko and Korok Forest at 5-6W.
@@kamelowy how do you undervolt the switch?
@@kamelowy cool dude, I just heard that game physics can be broken. like enemies are not showing up in some areas
what model do you have 1, 2, oled?
The Switch 2 having DLSS3 would be great news, having frame generation support would make it possible for the Switch 2 to get 120 fps games
@@N_N23296 Well the Switch 2 ain’t getting 120 fps on its own, even the PS5 and Series X barely get any games at 120 fps. That’s why having support for DLSS3 frame generation is a good idea in this case.
@@yancgc5098It should be an option though. Games should be able to run games at 30-60 fps without it.
@@waffleten9750 Of course, DLSS3 frame generation shouldn’t be an excuse for devs to not optimize for the Switch 2, it should be reserved for games wanting to go beyond 60 fps
I'd love to see more of these overcloocking tests on other games. They are great! Props!
Now try this with Monster Hunter: Rise or Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Really interested to see how those graphically intensive games stack up with the extreme overclocking profile.
Me too... explore Gormott in a higher resolution
I figured DLSS would be how they get to 4k. Using DLSS at 1080p going to 4k works fairly well in my experience but going anywhere below 1080p when upscaling to 4k is when you are really stretching what DLSS can do. Even at 1080p it's far from perfect in a lot of games but it's firmly in that "good enough" territory. In handheld I imagine the switch 2 will have a 1080p screen and use DLSS to upscale 540/720p. I can't say I've ever done that on my PC but I imagine that's going to look a bit rougher.
1080p quality dlss isnt too bad.
It will be 360p to 1080p DLSS ultra performance for many 3rd party games
I cam from an era where sub 30fps was the normal for most games, 60fps is a luxury but not a necessity for the likes of us
Yep, Ocarina of Time was 17fps on PAL and it was fine 😄
I came from slightly before that where most SNES games were 60fps.
@@supabass400320FPS NTSC, yet surprisingly it doesn't feel like it.
then nintendo can sell you crap
It would be incredible if they incorporated a "performance mode" in the new switch. An optional setting that is turned off by default and the people that want the extra power could just turn it on.
Not likely . Nintendo built Horizon on top of a micro kernel that somehow is running everything on an end user level, even Nvidias proprietary vGpu driver requires no elevated priviledge and facilitates calls via port to port communication without ever needing to make any system calls other then send message . Performance mode tweaks would require system user privilege to modify existing presets and that is what they are trying to not give you .
Amazing testing! I didn't know mariko consoles were moddable! thought only v1 models could be modded.
Modchips :)
Ok hackerman calm down over there.
One thing that sort of comes to mind for me is.. If we're able to run games in higher frame rates just by overclocking the hardware, could we actually be able to have better performance with backwards compatibility on the Switch's successor?
depends on Nintendo
Vita can't overclock PSP games to 500mhz having some guts of PSP inside and PSP games are capped to 333mhz afaik, so I'm afraid that would not be happening
@@rvreqTheSheepo True, that's a good point
potentially, because most expect the Switch 2 not to be a different system, but basically a Switch PRO.
Like a Gameboy Color, it would play all Switch Software but exclusive Switch2 Titles on top, which the original Switch wouldnt play.
Nintendo has done this many times, for example the Gameboy Color (playing all GB games), the Advance (playing all GB and GBC games), the Wii (playing all GC games).
This form of embedded full backwards compatibility, by just adding the native hardware is something Nintendo is very famous for, and basically nobody else did. The PS2 early models could play native PS1 games, but that was later removed and replaced by software emulation.
But the negative of that is that it only runs games at native power of the originals.
Wii is a good example, the Gamecube games didnt run better on the Wii, they ran exactly the same. Granted back in those days, many games had interrupts that were specific to the hardware clockspeeds. So you had gamebreaking bugs if it wasnt the native hardware.
So the safeplay is probably to add a legacy chip on the Switch2 that operates all Switch titles as if it were an original Switch. That way you have 100% compatibility.
@livinlicious the new switch probably uses a newer Tegra chip, same as the old switch. It being the same architecture should make backwards compatibility easy.
9:35 - Something to bear in mind is the next generation Nintendo console won't be using a Tegra X1.
The custom Tegra X1 in the Switch uses 4 Cortex A57 cores on a 16 nm process. The next Nintendo system is heavily rumored to be based on the T239 Jetson Orin platform, which uses A78AE cores on a 8nm platform. More power at the same clocks, with less heat. So you can't make a clock-for-clock comparison, saying you expect the next platform to use a 2GHz CPU clock by default.
(There's also a brand new rumor saying Nvidia might have pushed Nintendo onto the Thor platform with Neoverse Poseidon AE cores and a Ada Lovelace GPU architecture. I think that's way too new for Nintendo and a lot of wishful thinking. Orin with Ampere graphics makes more sense to me.)
Damn here we were all thinking that the new console to be released 9-10 years after the Tegra X1 would still be using that chip.. wow, thanks for bringing us back to reality. We really needed you to remind us 🙄
I could see an optimized console with higher GPU and memory bandwidth to help with DLSS while also not completely destroying the power draw. I wonder if they are tinkering with the idea of offering two power modes in handheld like a power efficient 30 fps mode and a 60 fps quality mode. Would be neat to see Nintendo cater a little bit to those willing to sacrifice a bit of battery for higher fps. Too bad Pokemon will be locked at a solid 10 fps on quality mode if recent releases are anything to go on.
I can’t wait to see the switch successor.
Steam deck tried, asus rog and now Lenovo. None can match the price to performance and battery life. The switch is too cheap of a price to compete with. They would lose money selling the steam deck for as low as the switch.
Interesting video as always - did a quick google ad found that Tegra 1 was 20nm!!! Rumoured next up in the Tegra 239 is 8nm. People seem to think this makes sense from a cost perspective and leaves room for improvements down the line like the Switch OLED (Apple currently targeting 3nm!). Big jump from 20 - 8 however, so hopefully battery life and power are both improved. Or potentially big battery life improvement and modest graphics increase.
The Tegra X1 Mariko chip in the Switch OLED is 16nm. The original V1 Switch was 20nm. Current sources are saying the Switch 2 will be 5nm or 4nm Samsung node.
@ZackSNetwork no way! They should stay away from samsung. Tsmc is better.
Won't faster to almost instantaneous loading times reduce battery also? If you spend less time in loading screens you can slightly increase the wattage output. Keeping it roughly the same as oled switch battery...I think
I do really like the game at 60fps but I feel modern consoles have spoiled us into expecting this out of everything we play. Like it takes you out of the experience to have one or two frame drops entirely… back in the day we would kill to have a game like BOTW even with 30 fps. I feel like we’re getting spoiled.
With all that said, I would LOVE to replay the game with a true 60fps ultra HD experience.
Yes, finally I have nothing to add, now you really have unlocked almost all the performance of the switch 👍
Not really. “4IFIR 1.7 Placebo” has more performance per watt than 1.6
And even more performance per watt will come with 1.8 soon.
@@Lachesis3D ну видео с 2397/1305/2500 это уже горааздо лучше, чем прошлые видосы с "невероятным" разгоном до док значений с оперативкой 1900 через криво поставленный sys-clk поверх)
Collab with 4ifir creator or interview will be interesting
4ifir creator already gave an interview, but it's in russian
@@vladdyomkin It would be a great honor for me to give an interview to MVG. True, my spoken English leaves much to be desired, and I hope that my speech won’t make your ears bleed :(
Man that so smooth. Can’t wait to play them back on Switch Gen 2
Nintendo wont make it 60fps oficially
It’s not “four-ifir” but “cheefeer”
FYI, I've been running my Unpatched Switch at maxed clocks using sys-clock for 2 years now. About 300 hours of playtime in BotW/TotK overclocked.
No problems so far.
What difference sysclck and 4ifir?
@@BlackInfiniteStar I used maximum clocks it allows. Or what do you mean?
God I love emulating this game on my pc 4k 60 fps in this game is a freaken dream that nintendo hardware could only imagine doing it feels so smooth aiming the bow and the visuals with 4k brings this game to life and it looks absolutely beautiful
@@N_N23296 get it from the switch with nxdumptool then
Would recommend you try it on an impulse display, like a CRT or Plasma if you have access to either. 60fps is absolutely amazing on those.
The leaks indicate the new switch will have 8 cores but I think it's entirely possible we only get 6 or even 4 of those cores for battery life and chip yield reasons. As shown here cpu isn't usually the limiting factor in the majority of switch games.
Your wrong it’s an 8 core A78 CPU with 12gbs of LPDDR5 ram and a 128bit bus.
I'll just wait for the switch 2 next year
Even overclocked, it's hard to see maintaining 60 fps . There are parts that can't manage 30 . That being said, I think the engine could handle it without crashing or glitching in a way that would cause it to be unplayable .
Nice video!!!On 1.7 version of 4ifir is better performance, in last update was added 4ifir wizard for configuration your kip (undervolting gpu, configurate ram timings and clock)
When was the 1.7 version of 4IFIR released? I'm still on 1.6.
@@hyper9984 3-4 weeks ago, name 1.7 placebo
There's also to consider how detailed they make whatever environment look like and how they manage their resources to achieve that 60fps. Like the switch is way better than an n64 but those games look terrible compared to HD remakes. If Nintendo goes with better graphics then we'll get 30fps. If they go with better performance it won't look any worse than it does currently. Dev time as well as effort will play a role too. Gone are the days where you get one shot to make a game, so why put in the effort to optimize your game to hit 60fps when you can just move on to the next money maker.
Granted, this is an older video, and much has came to our attention since. Great video overall, but it must be said...
Expecting 1.5 to 1.8 Ghz GPU clocks on Switch 2, even for docked mode, is pretty unrealistic expectations. Especially if you look at the kind of power draw Ampere architecture is able to deliver at the performance we hope to get.
Ampere chips that get anywhere close to 15w(Jetson Orin family) are clocked as low as 625 MHz, and that's not including a display. Additionally, other components like memory are significantly downclocked, even below Switch levels. Also, @ 1.8 GHz on the GPU, we are looking at a 5.5 TF handheld when docked! That'd be nice, but we'd be LUCKY if we get something even APPROACHING 4TF. This outlook has nothing to do with "Nintendo being cheap."
It's not so much that these specs are impossible, but that they might be impossible given other factors Nintendo HAS to consider in order to make a well balanced device. Like...
1) Cost. A Manufacturing node of 4nm might produce those results, but they'll be paying high price to compete for chips, which affects the unit price they'd like to hit. They may have to select a larger, but cheaper node, in order to come in at an attractive price. Unfortunately, it'll make those specs even harder to attain.
2) Portable performance. This is probably the #1 constraint Nintendo/Nvidia is working with.(The video nailed it in regards to addressing CPU constraints, but got a bit loose on the GPU side). As long as they have decent cooling, they can really push the chip in docked mode. However, they can NOT have TOO LARGE a difference in performance between the two modes. If the console can't maintain the very base make-up/performance of the game when in handheld mode, it will add a development burden, making portable mode a challenge for developers. This would be essentially like developing for two different SKUs! *Nintendo MUST avoid this at all costs, even if it means having a less powerful device overall!*
We've seen(and heard from decelopers) how easy it is to transition from docked mode to handheld mode, and vice versa. The device is specifically tuned to make that transition as smooth as possible. Conversely, with Xbox, we've seen/heard how difficult it is to get Series X stuff running on the Series S, especially without planning from day 1. That's the result of having two specs that are vastly different.
Nintendo will want to repeat their very successful model of selecting very specific GPU clocks, very specific memory speeds, coupled with same CPU speed, and same memory size in both modes. They can't get too crazy with their docked mode, even if they can.
All that said, I think Switch 2 will be hella impressive. It may not come out on top in theoretical performance, but what it will achieve it's going to be incredible to watch. Like its predecessor, I expect it to offer the best bang for the buck. That is; the best performance AT the lowest cost, AND with the best battery life. Those are the targets you wanna hit SIMULTANEOUSLY, when talking about superior handheld design.
Very interesting. Do you see any scenario where Nintendo could launch a 400$ new system more powerful but capped at 15w, alongside a last revision for Mariko? An oled lite if you will? Or will they drop the switch all at once?
you need the dynamic fps cheat to run a good fps in 1080p
UA-camr Zac Builds did this, but he made a custom dock,and changed the back plate to aluminium and applied new past,also put a noctua fan in the dock he 3d printed
i got to this video late MVG. my question is hypothetically speaking if you had a bigger heat sink or water cooled the chipsets would you be able to push it further? i feel like they squeezed all the blood out of this stone.
60 fps? Dang, we must be at 4 GHz 😉
4 Giga bean-cans of internet as well! Shit. Why am I not surprised, Switch 2 is well under way I knew it! Switch 1.5 lol.
It deeply hurts me that even on the most powerful consoles in 2023, 30fps is still considered normal, compared to gamecube games 20 years ago being a constant 60.
@@TheVideogamemaster9the wind waker, twilight princess and Mario sunshine were all 30fps games.
@@Ustaleonesunshine ran verry close to 60 on GameCube before Nintendo caped it down to 30
If you load the game on a moded Wii it runs stable 60 with a small patch
@@mjcox242it probably was 60fps on the levels and 40-60fps on the hub area mario galaxy looked better on the overclocked wii and ran at a locked 60
Is running botw at 4k60 with DLSS even that impressive? It runs at 720p30 (with drops ) on wii u! Over ten years of hardware later I’d hope docked 4k60 would be pretty easy on a switch 2!
Its easy on docked mode, even native 4k, but not if you want reasonable battery life and temps in handheld.
You act like ps5 and xbox S had games running 4k60 lol. A switch is a handheld console. 😂😂
We've already seen FSR 2 working and used on the Xbox Series consoles and the PS5. AI upscaling will hopefully help in keeping hardware relevant for longer.
No. It's being used a a crutch. Now you have to use it or games run like ass. Ai upscaling is stupid.
@Zellonous It's not the upscaler's fault that developers are relying on it. It's a very useful and welcome technology. They keep older hardware playing newer games when applied correctly, though many developers are unfortunately using it as a scapegoat for not optimizing their games by supposedly "designing them with upscalers in mind."
I love how that T-shirt you're wearing is a Nintendo T-shirt but spelled in Kanji characters. 任天堂 spells Nintendo
Please, don't ever use the switch oc suite. It's extremely user unfriendly, has some flaws, you have to tweak a LOT of things before jumping into playing, and it's community is just straight up toxic. Keep using the 4ifir, which is super easy and convienient to use.
Performance will be roughly the same, but on 4ifir your temps and power draw will be MUCH lower.
4IFIR💀 You really should use Switch OC Suite
No, with 4ifir you can obtained much more
Meha's just copying Cooler
@@rashevskyv Yeah with fake values while potentially damaging your console, who does 1305 gpu on battery??
@@PropinboMore like Cooler copying Kazu
@@alvisegamma3369 they arent fake, as you saw in the video, and for "who does" these values arent for your average gamer they are for people like in the vide, just to see how far you can push it, noone would realistacly game at this everyday
Honestly, with the leaked hardware of the T239 (or if it’s the Thor chip, but I find that much harder to believe), I can’t see how Nintendo wouldn’t be able to just immediately run basically all of their first-party games at 4K60 natively. Sure, DLSS could always be utilized to help keep things cool, keep performance consistent, or save battery in handheld mode. But seeing as we’re able to approach 1080p60 on current hardware (or in cases like MK8DX and SSBU actually hit it), if we’re getting a 6x increase in CUDA cores and more CPU cores on a more efficient architecture, as long as Nintendo keeps the same clocks and fixes the memory problems (which will also be going to LPDDR5) there’s no reason they would even need to use DLSS for their own backwards compatible titles. I can start to see how they’re managing to showcase these tech demos behind closed doors!
They wont upgrade any of their 30fps games to 60 only 4k dlss sold as new ports you will only be able to play backwards compatible games at higher dynamic res and more stable fps and most games released will continue to be 30fps just a higher visual fidelity
I can comfortably run LM2 HD at 60, Metroid Prime R at 720p native with better LOD or Kirby and The Forgotten Land at 60. A modified OLED is just an amazing device and closer to a PS4 Pro to a PS4 than people realise.
I hope some one on youtube eventually buys a hdmi crt that outputs at 720p natively, and just play all the modern consoles on that, so as to not tax the compute/graphics hardware, it could be an idea for a series where you 'make it run less hot'.
People are ignoring that the Nintendo switch does have a powerful processor, it's just that it massively underclocked to maintain a longer battery life and a much cooler handheld console.
I’d love to see you experiment with Shin Megami Tensei V in terms of overclocking
100% this, a better stress test for sure- and interesting due to it being unreal 4
Doesn't surprise me that they'd go in that kind of direction again. The Wii had a lot of things going for it specifically, but it really was just an extra-angry Gamecube.
Waking up at 6AM it is always welcome to see a video from you ready to watch.
I dont understand why they don't just give you the option to choose between a lower resolution/high fps and what we have at 1080p now if it doesn't destroy the hardware. It's the console we bought with our own money, why set a dumb standard to make your company seem even more tech slow, especially after the pokemon performance disaster
They don't care about consumers that's why. They don't have to either with the profits they're making.
4IFIR is actually pronounced as "cheefeer" from russian Chifir tea.
It kinda makes sense that the console is unable to work at 1080p60. After all, we were already pushing beyond reasonable levels (as low as 45ºC is for a chip or a computer, it's bordering small skin burns if touched), and beyond the actual levels of the docked mode. Unless we had a dock that had some extra active cooling that could try to also help the system get protected from heat, and give it more juice from it, it wouldn't really work.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm referring as to the console being able to barely push the 720p60 in "undocked mode": There isn't a new hardware item that suddenly kicks in (beyond the image generator chip for the image and audio output) on the console. They are different because they're clocked differently for the different needs of the different profiles - one being less thermal stress and reduced consumption, the other for better image output/quality.
70% in a hour that is rough
I really want to see a switch converted to a console only orientation. A lil diy box
Over clocked, water cooled and in a new sleek case.
thank you for having no spoilers in the video despite this being a bit of an older game now, im just getting around to playing it and id like to enjoy some of the youtube content but its all just landmines
So then somebody who's worked in and around video game software startups here in North Carolina and I won't name who this is the main reason why Nintendo will be going with a completely new SOC that has the built-in Hardware and machine learning capabilities so that it won't have to rely on Extreme overclocks it'll just be able to do this natively at stop clocks
If battery life is the limiter, then why wouldn't Nintendo upclock it further when docked?
Been running 4k 60 forever now with emulator
Every handheld I own is hacked. I paid the device, I should have full control over it.
TIL that getting BotW to run at 4K, ESPECIALLY with DLSS, doesn't require as big of a hardware upgrade as I thought. Which is nice for 1st party Nintendo games, they obviously will know how to get the most of their own hardware as they have demonstrated with the current Switch. Third party games on the other hand... not so sure how that will play out. Still nervous that a Switch 2 won't be powerful enough.
Now do an overclock test the bamboo forest in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet...
The way you extrapolated performance is wrong. Clock speeds are not the only metric. If the Tegra 239 is confirmed to be used thats a 10x in CUDA cores for more parallel rendering at the same clock speeds, as well as switching from A57+A53 cores to A78 cores which will improve both boost clocks as well as IPC (instructions per clock). If all else is equal (including clock speeds) we should expect around 10x performance. So going from 1080p30fps to 4k60fps seems more indicative of 8x the performance (4x the frames, 2x the fps. Probably why it was chosen to showcase the hardware).
It wasn’t meant to be anything more than a high level comparison. We don’t know anything about what the new Soc is .L1/L2 cache is also extremely important
Switch's successor's specs will be from 2 years before launch. So if it comes out in 2024, it's going to have 2022 portable specs.
Okay, bro. "4IFIR" Actually is pronouncing as "Chifeer"
A small curiosity for people interested in switch overclocking. The v2 switch revision (ips panel with mariko soc) is the best model to overclock because the cooling system is the same of the v1 model but it consumes much less power and runs much more cooler. The oled revision don't use the same cooling solution like the previous model (smaller fan, smaller heatpipes), is still better than v1 but it runs more hotter than v2 model...
It was not a huge problem even for Switch lite on max freqs, 4IFIR aggressively energy optimized, including undervolting
Clearly you just need to watercool it for soem real overclocking
I love your voice.
Next switch i kust wosh them they use a adreno gpu the same one as in next snapdragon chip.
The Nintendo ninjas want to know your location...
Love this video. Didn't know you could tinker with Switch like that but it makes sense.
BOTW/TOTK in 4k 60fps is such an amazing experience, makes it pretty jarring whenever going back to real hardware. I pretty much strictly use the real hardware on the go and whenever I'm home I just emulate because it's so much superior and Switch emulation is already very well done, I might get 1 crash in a 5 hour session. Still incredible they were able to pull those sorts of games on the Switch hardware even though they do have performance issues
Good to know the overclocking still doesn't completely burn out the system, so it's still somewhat viable. Though I guess a Deck or similar future handheld is going to be a far better option for on-the-go Switch gaming. Hopefully at least the successor is going to be a lot more capable because the original Switch was definitely underpowered the day it was released
This is a wii u game upgraded for the switch
If a Switch successor is 1080p 60fps in handheld mode, I would love to play BoTW in this experience. The most I would expect is this, however if they allowed this hardware to be docked at 4K, pants will be shat.
But, I am fine if 4K is not a thing. If they wait to release an updated BoTW on the new switch alongside WW and TP HD running at 1080p 60fps, I will be super happy and satisfied.
Why dont you do a video on how long you can run the switch in overclocked mode before it shits off or dies?
4:22 I don't know if this is like a latest patch or whatever, but I remember seeing the enemies in the starting area fly away with the second axe swing and seeing them just plop down is so unsatisfying
so disappointing that nintendo doesn't give the let the refreshed tegra unlock its full potential, instead opting for battery life. 60fps botw on a switch oled would've been beautiful
'2WITCH' The kinda backwords 2 looking like an S. That is a possible new name for the next switch
Breath of the Wild was developed on the Wii U then ported to the Switch...The Switch can do a lot more
Gotta hand it to nVidia. They make impressive hardware. The Tegra line has been impressive, their AI upsaling (DLSS) is impressive, and just their GPU tech in general is such a beast.
❤ your content. I feel like u are a long lost friend. From psp modding back in 2008 till now I never would have imagined I'd actually see one of the entrepreneurs. May your days be full of happiness like you have given to me my friend!