The occasional grunt when hitting a hard ball is totally fine but repeatedy hearing the same tone grunt (regardless of the loudness) just annoys the heck out of me.
I don't understand it at all. Boxers don't do it and strongly exhaling while you punch is a big part of proper technique. You rarely hear professional baseball pitchers grunt when they throw. You don't have to engage your vocal cords when you exhale no matter how violently you do so. I just don't understand.
I'm pretty sure I can hear my sister and her boyfriend practising tennis late into the night, with the amount of loud grunting I hear from her bedroom.
Actually, the really terrible thing about grunting is not just the noise but the implied force of hitting the ball. Players like Seles were masters at grunting loudly while hitting the ball softly and all shades in between. It was this trait that really used to piss me off as a spectator as the grunts were clearly used for distraction.
There are even players at ATP who grunt when slicing the balls. The problem is, if ATP/WTA is going to change anything in ruling we probably see a totally different top 100 of players then as most, if not all, players today grunt in some way or the other. I think this is similar to modern ski jumping. Where they first deducted points when the first jumpers used a V-form to gain more updrag and that way fly way farther, the deduction at one point couldn't outperform the length-reward athletes gained and as such on the long run everybody changed to a V-style and FIS then changed their scoring scheme to not deduct on that further. As there are to many players now grunting today the likelihood that ATP/WTA will change anything in terms of prevent players from grunting excessively are almost non-existing. They are probably more likely to distribute ear-buds to the audience before they change anything in regards to their ruling IMO.
I am 90% sure that you probably have more important things to worry about in a tennis match than analyzing your opponents grunt strength to determine the speed of the incoming ball.
Yeah it's pretty stupid. You have other sports, american football, soccer, basketball, hockey, baseball that athletes actually have to perform with a stadium of loud obnoxious spectators, other players taking shit, and even the crowd talking shit trying to distract them. Tennis players are just dainty snowflakes that cant deal with that though, and not just tennis players there are many other sports that are the same. It reminds me of children playing video games and telling their friends to be new quiet because they are going to mess them up in the game.
The real issue is the late and intentional grunt. The intentional is harder to notice, but it was clear that nadal intensified his grunt to show the opponent that hes getting into a groove and wont stop fighting. The late grunt is inacceptable i think. Alcaraz does this a lot, where he hits the shot and then exhales so late that it goes into the preparation phase of the opponents shot. That should be forbidden, especially if you dont do it regularly. Some players combine both and its obvious, but not easy to track by an umpire. It doesnt hurt though to simply make it part of the rules and apply them whenever its obvious. 🤷🏻♂️👍 Tennis is an elite sport of character and self-improvement that all of us player want to keep fair, too! 🙏
@@fallendeus they stopped regulating soccer crowds because they are literally animals. There are rules of crowd controlling and if they were to be used no soccer or nfl game would ever take place. Your definition of snowflake is "grew up past the age of 5".
I really think it's just a matter of degree. The Sharapovas and Azarenkas of the world drive me nuts when they play, but lower pitch/volume, shorter grunts that sound normal for accompanying an intense muscular effort have never bothered me at all.
Sabalenka is right up there with some of the loudest WTA players also. Halep is not much better with the multiple-syllable grunt that sounds like "I'm hungry" in Chinese! Lol.
Yeah, loudly grunting sometimes on efforts with particularly high exertion is very different from a loud scream accompanying every time the ball is hit.
Occasional, yes. Muted, yes. But howling on every point, even on soft drop shots or carefully struck lobs, is too much. Sharapova’s delayed screech must have unsettled some players, perhaps too overawed by her big reputation or by possible reactions from fans or journalists to complain about it. So also Sabalenka, Halep, Azarenka, some others
LOUD grunting is really NOT necessary. As it turns out, the one academy "promoted" grunting. This academy probably needed to come up with "new concepts" for the purpose of making themselves relevant or different from all the rest. Then the tennis federation did nothing to address the issue ....and the rest is history. If a player has been "taught" to scream, then of course, this is the only way they can now play. I wish "opponents" in all matches that have a "grunter" playing, would retaliate by screaming just before these "grunters" strike a ball. Maybe take this to the extreme and scream just before they serve ....WHICH RAISES A VERY VALID POINT. When players are serving, the chair umpire makes a point of getting a noisy crowd to quiet down .....and players themselves, appear NOT to want to begin their serve rituals when the crowd is noisy ....so what gives with this part of the tennis game??? This "SERVE" part of the game clearly suggests there is an agreed upon need for there to be quiet. WHY??? Why is this part of the game any different than the rest of the game???? I say if a loud grunter is allowed to scream, then let the opponent scream as well ....any time throughout the match. Distracting? YOU BET!!!!! I am curious what would have happened at the very beginning of this screaming issue ....beginning with Monica Seles as one extreme ...at one of the televised majors ...if Seles' first opponent would have stopped at Seles' first screaming serve and registered a serious complaint about the screaming ...and been OVERLY INSISTENT about the screaming ...exactly the same as how the idiot John McEnroe yelled at every chair umpire for everything under the sun. I don't think the chair umpire would have had a choice but to tell Seles to stop screaming. But this did not happen ....so here we are today.
The new delayed grunt some young players do is unacceptable though. They’re basically screaming their lungs off right as the opponent is supposed to hit the ball
There has to be a rule against interference, when I am playing squash with friends I sometimes imitate these noises on purpose for a few points just to see how easy it is to put someone off with these noises (it's very easy).
It is used as a distraction tool too. Remember when Sharapova was scolded for grunting fraction of a second after hitting the ball? Well, I played a match like that and nothing distracted me more than this.
As someone who plays tennis, ive only ever grunted when i was tired. It helped me stay focused and not give up plus i felt like i was exerting more power when i was swinging
You were exerting more power. The rapid contraction of your muscles helps increase the power of your swing. Ever heard about how a punch starts from the legs? Watch a boxer; when they are ready to make heavy blow, you can see their feet move first. They stabilize their feet and use the quads to launch forward, tense their abs, rotate their torso, clench ther upper torso muscles (I forget the proper name, apologies) and THEN they use their biceps. A deep and forceful exhalation helps tense your abs and upper torso, making the movement sharper. Of course, there's a difference between a grunt hitting 90db and a scream at 100db; quick google serch shows that every 3db you double the sonic energy so a 100db sound is more than eight times louder than a 90db.
@@lyravain6304which muscles specifically? The muscles in the diaphragm and or larynx? Honestly, how does that make you swing harder? Why dont golfers do this???
@@vincentkingsdale8334 Diaphragm. It's the exhalation, not the shout. As for golfers; no clue why they don't, I'm not a golfer. If I were to guess, I'd say that the movement's axis isn't the same. This kind of exhalation favors sideways movement or top-to-bottom. Or it could be that the drive has the length and mass needed to hit the appropriate range without needing even more; don't forget, when a tennis player hits a ball with the racket, that ball is also hitting them, which means they need a LOT more power than just what's needed to cover the distance.
There's grunting at the point of exhaling when hitting the ball, and then there's deliberate noise making just before the opponent is about to hit the ball. That's cheating and there are a number of ATP players who cheat. Must be banned.
@@Marc-vk7rl sonego's grunting is blatant hindrance idk why its still legal wtf. He grunts when the ball is already over the net, not relates to any abdominal contraction lol
I think Grunting is not the issue but screaming like a Tarzan is and some players; exclusively female players are exploiting the "grunt" acceptance to an insane level. I have seen Sabalenka, Azarekna and Sharapova screaming like WW1 emergency siren waaay after hitting the ball and right before the opponent is about to return. There is no way a player needs to scream like that before (and till) his/her opponent is about to return. It just dismisses the logic of grunting. These players can also be found screaming the batshit out of their throat even while doing a drop shot or a slice. No amount of logic will make it legit.
Right. It makes sense that grunting helps, but over a certain volume once you get to screaming I feel like there must be diminishing returns. At a certain point you're not gaining any more advantage but you are annoying the fans lol.
I swear to god I've never seen such marvellous editing in my life, the fact that it's done only by one person is crazy. Gladly it's getting the appreciation it deserves! Another great video/topic, you never cease to amaze us my friend! ❤️
@@CULTTENNIS When I listen to the news and it’s all about wars started by men, or the environment that’s being destroyed by the inventions of man, or the random acts of violence every day in the home or the street - caused by men, I can’t really get too worked up by a few grunts on the tennis court by women. Men always like to point the finger. Perhaps look at your own male grunters for a start. Then after that why don’t you get together and work out what you’re going to do about all the crap that’s happening in the world that’s caused by men.
It’s pure gamesmanship. Navratilova has said hearing the noise your opponent’s racquet makes on hitting the ball tells you a lot about how cleanly they have hit it and what kind of return you can anticipate. The screaming and shrieking effectively masks this which is unsportsmanlike at best blatant cheating at worst.
@@gab_gallard doesn’t alter the fact that it masks the sound of the ball hitting the strings so it’s gamesmanship. Until the 90s tennis was ‘grunt, scream, yell, bellow, free’
Difficult because some form of grunting is definitely normal when you put in a lot of power. And the modern game is much more about physicality than before so it's logical grunting increased. You can't do weight lifting without grunting either. But there is definitely a point to be made that some of the grunting is excessive. Putting a DB limit seems reasonable. In the same token taking extremely long for the serve like Djokovic for example is also gamesmanship I believe. Takes away focus for the opponent as it's very hard to be ready for such a long time. Shot clocks need to be faster and monitored more strictly.
@@markvanderwerf8592Yes some level of grunting is to be expected… but what they’re doing now is just excesive hollering for the sake of it. Weightlifters don’t belt out extended 110+db(that’s the noise level a police siren makes for comparison) arias like some players do nowadays.
@@gab_gallard i don't hear footballers, basketballers, cricketers, or track athletes screaming during an exhale. it's gamesmanship, pure and simple. The women are the biggest offenders, cos wimmin be wimmin
@@ivblizzard3616 I have actually, for many years. I understand the 'logic' behind it but still evidentially unnecessary when you consider the greatness of the names mentioned above :)
As a tennis coach (I am 50 now) I have lived through this phenomena, clearly its designed to hide the sound of the ball off the racquet, which gives you a large amount of information about what the ball is doing... like velocity and spin. In my opinion its a cheat.
I'd never thought about that, although it makes sense. I can see how today's top players need to process the sound off their opponent's racquet to prepare and respond, but at my level it's less important. Thankfully I'm older and my generation didn't grunt (and still doesn't for the most part.)
you should have also mentioned lorenzo sonego's grunts here. he literally makes sex noises on court and grunts almost when the ball has reached other side of court.
I can't believe Sonego's never been called for hindrance. Often enough his grunt starts right as the ball is about to land... and yet somehow he seems to be popular with the other players. I mean, I'm no pro, but I know that I'd be distracted if someone was doing that against me.
I was in a sport that required a LOT of quick, explosive reaction. Both myself and others were not there screaming like an ali-express opera signer during tournaments. When we got around to playing tennis (as we did for physical training) we'd typically play against the local tennis club the difference was staggering, they were over the other side screaming like they had been shot while we're on the other side with very minimal noise. I then went and played a couple years at their club (I was 16 at the time) and I was told off many times for being 'too quiet' and that "I'm telling you its so I can hear how you control your breath" but then in my 2nd year I was told "Yeah nah, its a lie really. We want to throw off the opposition." When it came to playing games I would listen to scream-o 'metal' and just blurred out the death sounds from the other side and not make them myself, at the level I played it was 100% for the scummy tactic for distraction and nothing else.
I was never taught to grunt but I started doing it *quietly* after I was playing longer matches because I began to get out of breath and needed the extra power to keep up. It was definitely way less than screaming but sometimes my teammate could hear me that's about it
Grunting has definitely diminished in todays game so there is clearly an effort to bring the noise down and I think that is improving popularity for fans. I just watched an excellent US Open women's final where both the young ladies involved were not shrieking or screaming.
as annoying as it is i will never forget when me and my friend decieded to grunt as loud as we could for a game and played of the best tennis of that night. however even forcing ourselves we were never even close to what some of the current players do
What I can’t understand, is that the umpire asks for SILENCE before the serve. Then they GRUNT on the serve. It seems that this favours the server. Why doesn’t the receiver get SILENCE. Or can the receiver GRUNT when the server is serving?
You may be on to something. There is grunting to focus power and exertion and screaming to distract. So if the receiver of the serve grunted just before the server served maybe this annoying practice would cease or at least be tempered.
@@artemisianwell5122 I would have liked that to be included in the video as well. Grunting has been derided and over focused a lot in woman’s tennis in comparison to men’s tennis due to sexism but he of course did not have to mention that to talk about grunting in male tennis and the volume in comparison to female tennis and how grunting shapes matches in that context differently.
After first insisting that the Umpire made sure all spectators were perfectly silent before serving, I considered the consistent bombardment of loud yelling as a form of "Noise-Attack" on the opponent designed to throw them off their game.
I trained at IMG academy for 5 years and graduated last year and they never told us to specifically grunt, yell, be obnoxious or scream, but I was taught and told to exhale on every hit and not to be shy of being loud. Many others are also very loud and competitive there so that could be why too. I think I had a coach tell me once or twice that he needs to hear my exhales so he knows I am breathing properly too tho
That is very different than, grunting as loud as you possibly can and continuing to make noise well after you’ve hit the ball. A lot of today’s pros need to be gagged LOL
Those justifications don't line up with it. Nothing about that lines up with the *absurd* and prolonged screeches that have become more common. It's clearly outside of what sounds people normally make. You should only mostly reach 109 decibels because of something like a kidney stone, not a supposed *"completely natural"* exertion sound.
So have these idiots not considered being coaches in MLB? What is their explanation for why immense force is never used in hockey? I am not a fan because hockey players never yell when they slap the puck, and thus it just coasts along at 14 mph or so. Too bad no pseudo scientist from tennis has ever heard of any other sport, just think of the expansions of force they could unleash in MLB, the NFL, or the NHL.
I've always equated tennis grunting to a Kiai in Karate. What you're describing as the exhale on every hit is what's usually taught in dojos everywhere. It's supposed to develop your fighting spirit, psyching yourself up as you hit your target. As an old sensei of mine says; if you don't believe in your punch, or your kick; you're the one who gets hurt when you strike. So just like in tennis, if you don't believe in that stroke, mishits, and unforced errors.
@@Doublebarreledsimian But like tennis grunting, there is of course a range/silent agreement to stay in line usually as well. It's not like every bout involving fighting styles that have kiais are shouting matches. It's not normal in that to violently throttle your vocal chords for upto entire seconds after a punch/kick. Imagine if it became common for karate practitioners to fill the room with "KIIAI-YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!" for every move they made in a bout lol. Vocally enunciating your effort is one thing, prolonged screeching every time you do something is distracting and emberassing.
Most of my male tennis friends refuse to watch women's tennis because of the grunting. Viewership of women's tennis may have increased, but it would be even higher without the grunting. To see how much it's hated, all you have to do is read the comments on any Sabalenka match. At least half of them will be rants about her grunting. And I don't buy the "it's necessary to exhale" crap. Some of these women continue screaming (not grunting, SCREAMING) long after the ball has been hit. Some of the best players in the world, including #1 Ash Barty, are totally silent. So the "screaming is necessary" argument is bullsh*t. I once saw a woman lose a point because she screamed after hitting a ball. The umpire called Hindrance. The ironic part is, her opponent screamed EVERY time she hit the ball, and this woman only screamed the one time. She called penalized for one scream, her opponent didn't get penalized for her hundreds of screams. How wrong is that?
One of the funniest moments, which got a huge laugh from the crowd, was when two loudly grunting (well, OK, screaming) players were playing and there was a noise from the audience. The umpire said "Ladies and gentlemen, please do not call out during the course of a rally".
@@tonybennett4159 crowd : oooohhh hahahaha Umpire : please, can we have quiet for the players Crowd : eurghh! AUGHH! EeRR! Commentators : oh dear. I think the umpire just needs to stay out of this. The less said the better!
Actually, screaming just the once is more worthy to be penalized. It comes across as intentional to mess with the opponent and it being a one off is more likely to mess with an opponent. With the non-stop screamer, it's on every shot, so the opponent is used to the noise and can adapt their game to it. It's like in golf if someone yells right when a person is going to putt or a drive. That's more distracting than if it's just noisy all the time. It would be the same if a member of the audience scream just as a player was going to serve. So totally deserved.
Martial artists do this. In Korean arts it is known as a "Kiyap", a cry performed during a strike to help focus the attack, startle the opponent, and add commitment to the follow through. It is extremely effective when done correctly.
Let’s be real, when you exhale is so loud and lasts long enough for the ball to be returned before you’re done. It’s excessive lol There is a grunt and a scream, the two are not the same.
@@Matheus-ki9zo Nah, Nadal's grunt is actually obnoxious af. But people look past it because he is one of the greatest and a nice guy. But in truth its unbearable at times.
OMG Your editing level is SO out of this world!! and the research you do and your understanding of everything, WOW man you are the GOAT Thank you for that !
It’s a shame this practice has become so pervasive throughout tennis. It really makes the offenders’ matches far less enjoyable to watch. (Not to mention the distraction it causes for their opponent) I almost feel compelled to watch on mute if a match involves a player doing this particularly egregiously. This is one of the (many) reasons I always enjoyed Federer matches so much and miss him not playing on the tour right now. He played almost entirely silent and also quickly in between points, so you could just sit back and enjoy the beautiful and amazing tennis on display. No long pauses and disruptive noises to diminish the experience. Of course…Nadal supplied enough of those for the both of them when they faced off! ;)
I don't watch grunters at all, it's right up there with open mouth chewing for me. Federer was a great example of, you actually dont NEED grunts to play at the highest levels on earth. Maybe courtside sound cancelling tech will become a thing 😅
Short, not-too-loud grunts I can put up with, but the full-on screaming from players like Sabalenka is totally unnecessary. Makes you appreciate people like Sinner and Swiatek who barely make a sound.
Jesus, Larcher de Brito took it to another level. Her shriek was simply diabolical, and she was no where good enough to be able to get away with it. At the end of the day, you can't stop players from grunting unless it's inconsistent and deliberate and clearly falls on the side of hindrance.
So doctor here just wanna add something to the discussion. So muscle cells have these proteins called actin and myosin. To cause muscle shortening, these two have to get closer together and to relax (which takes ATP aka the universal energy source of the body). This is why when people die, they are stiff as a board. There is no more energy to promote muscle relaxation. Anyways back to the grunting..... The thing is to prevent excessive shortening, the body leaves about 10-15% of non interacting space between the proteins. Think of it as a fail safe. However in true fight or flight response, your own life is way more important than slightly damaging some muscles. To overcome this purposeful suboptimal muscle contraction, you can have acess to that 10-15% unused muscle contraction by grunting. This is called the golgi tendon body reflex/golgi tendon organ reflex. Think if how you grunt when you dead lift/bench or pick up a heavy box when you move. It's the same thing. Though I don't think there's a correlation to scream that loud and unlocking new levels of power (unless you live it n the dragon ball universe)
I remember when I tried out kendo in high school and the instructor told me to really try and unleash my energy into one strike. My body was so into it that when I released all that energy I let out an involuntary yell. Felt really good in comparison to when I tried to hold it in because I thought it was more 'controlled' to do so. Fascinating stuff!
Yeah, Players like Sharapova were compared to the decibel level of jet planes as they are/were so loud. This is surely a little more than 10-15%. Clearly gamesmanship. Whether it is to intimidate an opponent, distract or whatever it is clearly being put on, and should not be allowed in my opinion. Glad they have been cracking down on the practice at the junior level, but they haven't at the pro level, which doesn't seem right to me since young aspiring players get their inspiration from the pros and want to copy them. The body needs to exhale, and the abdominal muscles tighten up in the process resulting in a sound, but it doesn't need to be much noise.
I quit watching women's tennis altogether, not only because the unnecessary, disrupting, annoying noises, but also for the decidedly low quality of play as compared to that of the men's. Calling these noises "grunting" is a euphemism that should not be tolerated, as it trivializes its intended purpose, which is to gain an unfair advantage over the opponent. Just view the video starting at around 1:28 or so. It is a "tactic" actually taught at academies, which clearly are only focused on winning and not on competing fairly. Truth be told, some male players can also be heard making noises, e.g., Nadal, but never to the level of a M. Sharapova, S. Williams, or V. Azarenka. Unfortunately, this behavior has been tolerated for far too long, and will cause the viewership to diminish. People know that this is an unfair tactic and will lose interest! Not exactly what the players and league want.
Ok, the breathing, the science, the coach who wants to hear the pupil’s breath... but let’s not pretend they do it JUST for that reason. The fact that it annoys the opponent is not just a happy coincidence.
She's the worst player in tennis history. A 6'2" screaming demon from Hell. I'm glad she's not playing anymore. Her incessant double faults also are as annoying. Screaming/ grunting is a form of gamesmanship that should be outlawed or punished by fines and penalty points.
Great video, thanks. Even though coaches might want to hear the ‘breath’, they definitely know that with the minimal advantage it gives their ‘grunter/screamer’ it becomes a much bigger disadvantage for their opponent. 2 ft in tennis is huge. Serena’s screams often seemed like that to me. Instead of being loudest when she was winning, as you would expect if it was an advantage, she got louder the worse she was playing and the further she got behind. Seles changing something so major in her game for a slam final was actually a pretty dumb move, no wonder she regrets it, that’s something for the off-season. Most players wouldn’t even change their shoe laces at that point.
I never knew this was an issue, in tennis! Very informative video. The whole situation actually reminds me of a similar issue in fencing, at least here in Greece. When players score a point, they will often shout into the air. Ive heard its alternatively to relieve tension and to convince the referee to give them the point during controversial "phases"(?) (Basically whenever its uncertain who had right of way in a bout) I was at a tourney, recently, and one of the schools' participant were being EXTREMELY loud whenever they scored...! It was qyite distracting, actually. Admittedly, thats not the sort of thing that happens during gameplay, so its ptobably more of a psychological/intimidation factor, there.
I’ve noticed that most portayals of tennis on tv shows are doubles, yet singles is actually much more popular in real life Edit: thanks for telling me in the replies, I have rarely ever played doubles
that's because the actors aren't good enough athletes to even attempt singles at any level. Doubles is extremely athletic too, but the camera can give the illusion because the actors can stay in place
Singles is much more popular among couch potatoes. If you watch tennis, you mostly watch singles. If you play tennis, however, it's usually doubles. Singles is too physically demanding or points are two shots long at best.
@@rafarequeni822 I think that only applies to adults though or people that start playing tennis at a late age. I have been playing for 10 years or so and I always play singles, much more than doubles
Doubles can be much more enjoyable for people who aren't in peak physical condition. Certainly at a high level it's every bit as athletic as singles, but if you put a non-tennis player on a singles court they're just going to look like an idiot as they desperately run around trying to chase everything down, while doubles can be enjoyed even by middling-level club players well into their 70s.
This channel is pure gold. The novelty of topics, the research, the editing, subtle jokes, occasional memes make the videos of this channel worth watching. This channel deserves more subscribers.
I personally don't watch any Tennis because I just didn't really find anyone that really blew me away as a newbie. The grunting was one of the parts that pushed me away from it.I know now why it makes sense so it's a little better that in the past. I still watched all of your videos because their so well done and very interesting. You explain everything very understandably and clear for people like me,who don't know much about Tennis in general. So cheers to you!!
I think it's reasonable for exhausted players to grunt (for example, those fighting in a long drawn-out match). Systematically encouraging/cultivating that habit should not be allowed. BTW I doubt Steve Simon's contribution to women's tour. A manager's performance can only be judged at least several years after he takes control.
When I lived in halls at university, I used to have to walk past the indoor tennis court every day, and even outside you could hear over-the-top grunting. The sports stars of today are setting a bad example for those of tomorrow.
Having played abit myself, I can definitely vouch for the fact that the mild can definitely increase your performance but the excessive grunting is nothing but a distraction tactic
exactly, I only grunt when it's those really difficult balls that really push your body to the limit or when I want to hit a ball as hard as I can, but screaming is juts ridiculous
Excessuve grunting is player interference, which is sanctioned in the Rules, thus it should not be allowed. One main reason it is allowed is money: imagine banning Sharapova because of her grunting. Would her $ponsors and the WTA allow that? Imagine the lost money. Yes, the sport is being corrupted and that can be a very sad thing.
Amazing vid! Well done! Only thing missing was talking about delayed grunting where players grunt long after they've hit the ball just before their opponent is trying to hit. The worst.
I was just about to say, some guys must have forgot how loud Monica Seles was! Heck, people exhale differently and make different noises when playing. Add that to fact microphones on court make the grunts sound louder(believe me, I saw Rafa playing in person in Rome, his grunts are not a loud as you'd think satching on TV). Where I draw the line on grunting/screaming/shrieking it's when it's done disproportionately with the intensity of the shot, or when it's done way later after the shot is complete(sometimes even when the ball bounces on your opponent's side). That's when it's straight up hindrance.
Should we consider this just a fair tactic that players need to adjust to or is it a form of cheating? If there's any way to measure it, I'd love to see statistics on how many times players lose points or make errors because of screaming from their opponent. Numbers don't lie.
I can agree with the being taught to grunt part. When I joined an international academy they taught us to go “huh” when the ball bounced and “ehhh” when we hit so that we relaxed when hitting the shot. I noticeably play better when doing it but try to not be too loud
Having just learned the game recently in my old age, I appreciate the skill of these young players on the court. They do not get enough credit . The grunting does not bother me when watching an intense game. The games appear to be more and more intense these days, it is not the same polite game of 50 years ago, it has become a chess tournament with ball and racquet.
@@krafthund Federer is worst case scenario the third best overall player in history (and it's far more likely that he's the second). So I think Federer fans will be alright haha. Still, what a savage joke!
@@krafthund nah. For one of the mentally weakest players in history that can only tell how good of a player he actually is. Consistency and ability is unmatched by him. The fact that nole will overtake him just now is a testament to his never give up attitude. To put it simply when novak plays poorly roger destroys him. When roger plays poorly novak barely beats him and usually by federer choking. I'm just amazed that with a the luck novak has had with injuries and opponents choking that he hasn't won at least 50 slams. Frankly that's embarrassing in my opinion.
your videos are of such a high standard, it's incredible! Very analytical and well designed, interesting animations and cuts. Keep up the great work :)
Just like tennis, there are some martial art styles that grunt when they strike. I didn’t understand grunting before, until I started to serve much harder. Then I found out I’ll grunt naturally when I try to hit extra hard. It helps me concentrate power into the strike. I think grunting is mainly a habit that helps the player, more so than a distraction tactics. Distraction is typically deployed at a critical moment, like a fake shot, not on every stroke.
They do it also to distract the opponent. Sharapova rarely grunted during practice, but would kill her vocal cords screaming. Same with Azarenka, and more than half of the Spaniard players (both men and women), as well as the South Americans. If it's not prohibited, then players will do it.
For me as (quiet) hobby tennis player, grunting is used by my opponents for preventing me to hear the contact sound, ie, the type of shots they are performing. And for psychological reasons of looking strength in some particular point.
I was in one such academy. They 100% do and told us it would help us hit harder… It actually made our opponents hit harder trying to beat us quicker to save their ear drums
Haha Svitolina started screeching like a beast in the middle of the match today because Leylah was putting a whooping on her. Too bad it wasn't enough and LEYLAH STILL WON!!!! that noise is horribly annoying. Azarenka is another person that has a horrible shriek... normal grunts aren't bad or annoying but some people way overdo it and sometimes I get a little suspicious that some players do it to throw their opponent off... like today im convinced that's why Svitolina randomly started doing it in the middle of the match when she was losing.
I tried this "grunting improves performance" theory on my wife when we made love. She wasn't impressed, i still only lasted 3 seconds, so no improvement from grunting.
Two other things I think are worth noting: 1) Some players say they grunt because, as kids, their coaches said they weren't hitting the ball as hard as they could. So they effectively trained themselves to grunt loudly at a young age to show they're hitting as hard as they can. I think it was Sharapova who said this once. 2) The advantage of exhaling sharply to tighten muscles isn't a strong argument in favor of grunting. You can achieve the same effect at a much quieter level. Anyone who has done Taekwondo knows this - you're taught to exhale sharply making a kind of "huttt" breath sound. It's not loud at all but is just as effective as audible grunting.
Honestly, in my opinion, if the grunt is quick, it's not on purpose, if it's long and exaggerated, then it's purposely done because as said in the video, when you hit the ball really hard, you can let out an exhale that makes a noise but when it's done like that, it will only ever be quick meaning that the majority of tennis players purposely grunt to gain some ssort of advantage. Hard truth whether you agree or not. Great video btw.
I hate grunting *SO* much. Just shut the hell up play the game. If you gotta breathe or whatever, just breathe! Don't *SCREAM* your damn guts out every single time!
I was halfway expecting this video to cover stomping in table tennis, particularly when serving. The stomp provides an auditory mask over paddle/ball contact, which can be used as a pretty significant indicator of how much spin/power is imparted on the ball when paired with the visual movement. In table tennis you can telegraph a big hit while actually hitting softly and vice versa; the sound of the paddle hit can quickly tell you what's happening UNLESS the hit itself is muffled with a well-timed foot stomp. I'm wondering if a similar effect is occurring during a tennis racket hit&grunt on top of the physiological tightening of the core muscles
Everything in moderation. Some grunts, you can just tell are excessive and unnecessary. For example, when you're slicing the ball or hitting finesse shots, do you really need to grunt loudly? As for Nick Bolleteri. I never liked him. I always felt like he is especially a poor coach when it comes to character.
I've been a fan of tennis for as long as I can remember and your content really adds to my love for the sport. Awesome editing and content, keep it up!
Fun to play, humdrum to watch for some of us. It really reminds me of Showbol (indoor soccer) and its changes and evolution. Pickleball is in its early stages and probably some tweaks might come in the future at pro-level to make it more appealing?
Bear in mind that deciBels are a logarithmic scale, where an increase of 10dB is roughly equivalent to double the perceived loudness of a sound. That means Larcher de Brito is around FOUR times louder than Seles.
'Gut-grunting' vs 'shrieking'. The Fletcher-Munson effect also scales; i.e. meaning that perceived loudness varies based on frequency content as well as dB level. For example, an increase of 10dB in only low bass frequencies of 20-60 Hz won't bear anywhere the dramatic change in perceived loudness that +10dB@2kHz-5kHz will. (+10dB is usually going to sound a lot more than 2x louder, btw. Mid-to-high frequency sounds can seem to be at least 5x louder when raised 10dB) The avg adult homo sapien's ear is most sensitive in this 2kHz-5KHz range because it is right where the most discernment and definition between vocal consonants occurs.
Grunting in weightlifting and power lifting actually 8s unintentional. it's air escaping the intensity of the velsalva movement under extreme duress, but they do not scream or drag it out. In fact it's in their best interest to fight to keep it under wraps as that stored air is vital to stability and muscular tension and thus prevents injury. I find it hard to believed the prolonged howling in some of these examples is at all necessary, it's not like we see golfers screaming after a long drive as a part of their follow through - and they are assuredly delivering equal if not exceeding amounts of effort in order to move the ball in their sport.
For those who aren't aware, the decibel scale is logarithmic. 100 dB is significantly louder than 90.
3dB is 2 times louder
Wouldn’t it be exponential, not logarithmic?
@@zachbarry1992 a logarithmic scale is based on 10^x, not log x as one would first think
It's ten times more energy every 20dB, but ten times more energy doesn't mean ten times louder to human ears.
@@god-son-love same for sun's energy and its brightness
The occasional grunt when hitting a hard ball is totally fine but repeatedy hearing the same tone grunt (regardless of the loudness) just annoys the heck out of me.
I don't understand it at all. Boxers don't do it and strongly exhaling while you punch is a big part of proper technique. You rarely hear professional baseball pitchers grunt when they throw. You don't have to engage your vocal cords when you exhale no matter how violently you do so. I just don't understand.
Because you are an idiot .it moves energy through your body
The worst part is that some players grunt AFTER they already hit the ball. That's one of the reasons I have no respect for Alcaraz.
I'm pretty sure I can hear my sister and her boyfriend practising tennis late into the night, with the amount of loud grunting I hear from her bedroom.
indoor playing tennis?
must be playing on video game consoles
Creepy dude, get therapy
@@k.e.1760 bruh it’s a joke
I guess the boyfriend also practises being the ballboy
Plus they'll always be a good fit for each other because it ends with "Game Set Match"
mario power tennis?
Actually, the really terrible thing about grunting is not just the noise but the implied force of hitting the ball. Players like Seles were masters at grunting loudly while hitting the ball softly and all shades in between. It was this trait that really used to piss me off as a spectator as the grunts were clearly used for distraction.
There are even players at ATP who grunt when slicing the balls. The problem is, if ATP/WTA is going to change anything in ruling we probably see a totally different top 100 of players then as most, if not all, players today grunt in some way or the other. I think this is similar to modern ski jumping. Where they first deducted points when the first jumpers used a V-form to gain more updrag and that way fly way farther, the deduction at one point couldn't outperform the length-reward athletes gained and as such on the long run everybody changed to a V-style and FIS then changed their scoring scheme to not deduct on that further. As there are to many players now grunting today the likelihood that ATP/WTA will change anything in terms of prevent players from grunting excessively are almost non-existing. They are probably more likely to distribute ear-buds to the audience before they change anything in regards to their ruling IMO.
Oh no, mindgames! Those definitely have no place in a sporting competition.
I am 90% sure that you probably have more important things to worry about in a tennis match than analyzing your opponents grunt strength to determine the speed of the incoming ball.
@@thechugg4372 Obviously you do not play tennis so wtf r u doing here.
@@TheRealMycanthrope Exactly! Mindgames are always good and welcome, that's why everybody loves it when soccer players fake injuries! oh wait
Freedom to grunt.
Freedom to be silent.
No freedom to intentionally distract an opponent.
Well it’s why I can’t stand tennis. Grunt away!
Yeah it's pretty stupid. You have other sports, american football, soccer, basketball, hockey, baseball that athletes actually have to perform with a stadium of loud obnoxious spectators, other players taking shit, and even the crowd talking shit trying to distract them. Tennis players are just dainty snowflakes that cant deal with that though, and not just tennis players there are many other sports that are the same. It reminds me of children playing video games and telling their friends to be new quiet because they are going to mess them up in the game.
The real issue is the late and intentional grunt. The intentional is harder to notice, but it was clear that nadal intensified his grunt to show the opponent that hes getting into a groove and wont stop fighting.
The late grunt is inacceptable i think. Alcaraz does this a lot, where he hits the shot and then exhales so late that it goes into the preparation phase of the opponents shot. That should be forbidden, especially if you dont do it regularly.
Some players combine both and its obvious, but not easy to track by an umpire.
It doesnt hurt though to simply make it part of the rules and apply them whenever its obvious. 🤷🏻♂️👍
Tennis is an elite sport of character and self-improvement that all of us player want to keep fair, too! 🙏
Freedom to claim you wouldn't intentionally distract an opponent even though you do.
@@fallendeus they stopped regulating soccer crowds because they are literally animals. There are rules of crowd controlling and if they were to be used no soccer or nfl game would ever take place. Your definition of snowflake is "grew up past the age of 5".
The power of 'BWEH' is a force one cannot explain...
THE POWER OF BWEH COMPELS YOU!
Andrew RuBWEHv!
BWEH works in mysterious ways
BWEH
@@JiraiyaSama86 The dark side of the BWEH is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be unnatural...
I really think it's just a matter of degree. The Sharapovas and Azarenkas of the world drive me nuts when they play, but lower pitch/volume, shorter grunts that sound normal for accompanying an intense muscular effort have never bothered me at all.
I totally agree. Azarenka crunt was loud snd long. Should be short and softer, lke breathing.
Sabalenka is right up there with some of the loudest WTA players also. Halep is not much better with the multiple-syllable grunt that sounds like "I'm hungry" in Chinese! Lol.
Yeah, loudly grunting sometimes on efforts with particularly high exertion is very different from a loud scream accompanying every time the ball is hit.
Occasional, yes. Muted, yes. But howling on every point, even on soft drop shots or carefully struck lobs, is too much. Sharapova’s delayed screech must have unsettled some players, perhaps too overawed by her big reputation or by possible reactions from fans or journalists to complain about it. So also Sabalenka, Halep, Azarenka, some others
LOUD grunting is really NOT necessary. As it turns out, the one academy "promoted" grunting. This academy probably needed to come up with "new concepts" for the purpose of making themselves relevant or different from all the rest. Then the tennis federation did nothing to address the issue ....and the rest is history. If a player has been "taught" to scream, then of course, this is the only way they can now play.
I wish "opponents" in all matches that have a "grunter" playing, would retaliate by screaming just before these "grunters" strike a ball. Maybe take this to the extreme and scream just before they serve ....WHICH RAISES A VERY VALID POINT.
When players are serving, the chair umpire makes a point of getting a noisy crowd to quiet down .....and players themselves, appear NOT to want to begin their serve rituals when the crowd is noisy ....so what gives with this part of the tennis game??? This "SERVE" part of the game clearly suggests there is an agreed upon need for there to be quiet. WHY??? Why is this part of the game any different than the rest of the game????
I say if a loud grunter is allowed to scream, then let the opponent scream as well ....any time throughout the match. Distracting? YOU BET!!!!!
I am curious what would have happened at the very beginning of this screaming issue ....beginning with Monica Seles as one extreme ...at one of the televised majors ...if Seles' first opponent would have stopped at Seles' first screaming serve and registered a serious complaint about the screaming ...and been OVERLY INSISTENT about the screaming ...exactly the same as how the idiot John McEnroe yelled at every chair umpire for everything under the sun. I don't think the chair umpire would have had a choice but to tell Seles to stop screaming. But this did not happen ....so here we are today.
The new delayed grunt some young players do is unacceptable though. They’re basically screaming their lungs off right as the opponent is supposed to hit the ball
It's called interference and there actually is a rule against it.
@@macans5010 not a rule that’s used. Many young players do it week in and week out
@@macans5010 it’s actually called hindrance and not used in these cases unless blatant.
@@Jon-dn5ng So basically it almost never gets called and 90% of dickheads get to scream at the opponent for free
There has to be a rule against interference, when I am playing squash with friends I sometimes imitate these noises on purpose for a few points just to see how easy it is to put someone off with these noises (it's very easy).
It is used as a distraction tool too. Remember when Sharapova was scolded for grunting fraction of a second after hitting the ball? Well, I played a match like that and nothing distracted me more than this.
As someone who plays tennis, ive only ever grunted when i was tired. It helped me stay focused and not give up plus i felt like i was exerting more power when i was swinging
When I saw Serena Williams.....I thought it was cool. :)
You were exerting more power. The rapid contraction of your muscles helps increase the power of your swing. Ever heard about how a punch starts from the legs? Watch a boxer; when they are ready to make heavy blow, you can see their feet move first. They stabilize their feet and use the quads to launch forward, tense their abs, rotate their torso, clench ther upper torso muscles (I forget the proper name, apologies) and THEN they use their biceps. A deep and forceful exhalation helps tense your abs and upper torso, making the movement sharper. Of course, there's a difference between a grunt hitting 90db and a scream at 100db; quick google serch shows that every 3db you double the sonic energy so a 100db sound is more than eight times louder than a 90db.
@@lyravain6304which muscles specifically? The muscles in the diaphragm and or larynx? Honestly, how does that make you swing harder? Why dont golfers do this???
@@vincentkingsdale8334 Diaphragm. It's the exhalation, not the shout. As for golfers; no clue why they don't, I'm not a golfer. If I were to guess, I'd say that the movement's axis isn't the same. This kind of exhalation favors sideways movement or top-to-bottom. Or it could be that the drive has the length and mass needed to hit the appropriate range without needing even more; don't forget, when a tennis player hits a ball with the racket, that ball is also hitting them, which means they need a LOT more power than just what's needed to cover the distance.
There's grunting at the point of exhaling when hitting the ball, and then there's deliberate noise making just before the opponent is about to hit the ball. That's cheating and there are a number of ATP players who cheat. Must be banned.
Sonego...
@@Marc-vk7rl sonego's grunting is blatant hindrance idk why its still legal wtf. He grunts when the ball is already over the net, not relates to any abdominal contraction lol
@@JesusChrist-qi8yo Amen
@@JesusChrist-qi8yo Also Lucia Bronzetti
Source?
I think Grunting is not the issue but screaming like a Tarzan is and some players; exclusively female players are exploiting the "grunt" acceptance to an insane level. I have seen Sabalenka, Azarekna and Sharapova screaming like WW1 emergency siren waaay after hitting the ball and right before the opponent is about to return. There is no way a player needs to scream like that before (and till) his/her opponent is about to return. It just dismisses the logic of grunting. These players can also be found screaming the batshit out of their throat even while doing a drop shot or a slice. No amount of logic will make it legit.
Right. It makes sense that grunting helps, but over a certain volume once you get to screaming I feel like there must be diminishing returns. At a certain point you're not gaining any more advantage but you are annoying the fans lol.
Yes no need for screaming. Grunts part of all sports.
Grunting used in martial arts too to focus and use more muscles💌💪
Same, and SW does it too when she's in a vulnerable position in points
not the WW1 emergency 🤣🤣🤣
I swear to god I've never seen such marvellous editing in my life, the fact that it's done only by one person is crazy. Gladly it's getting the appreciation it deserves! Another great video/topic, you never cease to amaze us my friend! ❤️
I may be improving, but I’ll never be the OG GOAT of tennis UA-cam!!
Thanks for saying what I was thinking.
ye the editing is nutty
@@CULTTENNIS When I listen to the news and it’s all about wars started by men, or the environment that’s being destroyed by the inventions of man, or the random acts of violence every day in the home or the street - caused by men, I can’t really get too worked up by a few grunts on the tennis court by women. Men always like to point the finger. Perhaps look at your own male grunters for a start. Then after that why don’t you get together and work out what you’re going to do about all the crap that’s happening in the world that’s caused by men.
@@CULTTENNIS "Kyrgios: the most overhyped and overrated player of all time". It is finally the time man.
It’s pure gamesmanship. Navratilova has said hearing the noise your opponent’s racquet makes on hitting the ball tells you a lot about how cleanly they have hit it and what kind of return you can anticipate. The screaming and shrieking effectively masks this which is unsportsmanlike at best blatant cheating at worst.
Sounds like coping. Grunts are part of many other sports were no direct confrontation between competitors exist.
@@gab_gallard doesn’t alter the fact that it masks the sound of the ball hitting the strings so it’s gamesmanship. Until the 90s tennis was ‘grunt, scream, yell, bellow, free’
Difficult because some form of grunting is definitely normal when you put in a lot of power. And the modern game is much more about physicality than before so it's logical grunting increased. You can't do weight lifting without grunting either.
But there is definitely a point to be made that some of the grunting is excessive. Putting a DB limit seems reasonable.
In the same token taking extremely long for the serve like Djokovic for example is also gamesmanship I believe. Takes away focus for the opponent as it's very hard to be ready for such a long time. Shot clocks need to be faster and monitored more strictly.
@@markvanderwerf8592Yes some level of grunting is to be expected… but what they’re doing now is just excesive hollering for the sake of it. Weightlifters don’t belt out extended 110+db(that’s the noise level a police siren makes for comparison) arias like some players do nowadays.
@@gab_gallard i don't hear footballers, basketballers, cricketers, or track athletes screaming during an exhale. it's gamesmanship, pure and simple. The women are the biggest offenders, cos wimmin be wimmin
If Fed, Pete, Martina & Steffi didn't need to do it, I struggle to understand why it's necessary.
Really thank you. Like i understand if you are tired in the fifth set and what not. But first set, what for
have you ever played?
@@ivblizzard3616 I have actually, for many years. I understand the 'logic' behind it but still evidentially unnecessary when you consider the greatness of the names mentioned above :)
As a tennis coach (I am 50 now) I have lived through this phenomena, clearly its designed to hide the sound of the ball off the racquet, which gives you a large amount of information about what the ball is doing... like velocity and spin. In my opinion its a cheat.
Exactly. The sound of the ball off the racket is a big part for anticipation, and timing.
Yeah, but you should be able to figure these things out when you are playing them
@@fatboi1283 do you play tennis, all we are saying if you don't grunt but your opposition does your at a disadvantage.
I'd never thought about that, although it makes sense. I can see how today's top players need to process the sound off their opponent's racquet to prepare and respond, but at my level it's less important. Thankfully I'm older and my generation didn't grunt (and still doesn't for the most part.)
@@gretchenlittle6817 same same
i still remember the days when i used to watch sharapova games at silent mode on my tv so that my parents in other room do not get disturbed.
You watching porn? No mom, women's tennis.
@@vinyllpreviews9462 Parents: "Can you just switch over to porn. It will be over in 30 minutes. The tennis match can go on for hours"
you should have also mentioned lorenzo sonego's grunts here. he literally makes sex noises on court and grunts almost when the ball has reached other side of court.
Exactly…
huh?
ehhh!!!
I can't believe Sonego's never been called for hindrance. Often enough his grunt starts right as the ball is about to land... and yet somehow he seems to be popular with the other players. I mean, I'm no pro, but I know that I'd be distracted if someone was doing that against me.
haha true
Indeed, his is the worst. He also grunts AFTER he hit the shot and it is way past the net already
I was in a sport that required a LOT of quick, explosive reaction. Both myself and others were not there screaming like an ali-express opera signer during tournaments. When we got around to playing tennis (as we did for physical training) we'd typically play against the local tennis club the difference was staggering, they were over the other side screaming like they had been shot while we're on the other side with very minimal noise. I then went and played a couple years at their club (I was 16 at the time) and I was told off many times for being 'too quiet' and that "I'm telling you its so I can hear how you control your breath" but then in my 2nd year I was told "Yeah nah, its a lie really. We want to throw off the opposition." When it came to playing games I would listen to scream-o 'metal' and just blurred out the death sounds from the other side and not make them myself, at the level I played it was 100% for the scummy tactic for distraction and nothing else.
I was never taught to grunt but I started doing it *quietly* after I was playing longer matches because I began to get out of breath and needed the extra power to keep up. It was definitely way less than screaming but sometimes my teammate could hear me that's about it
Cult Tennis is the Summoning Salt of Tennis
Never thought I’d see you here
such true words.
Never thought Rev was a tennis guy. I wonder if he watched Botic Van de Zandschulp at the US Open. 🙄
YES
More like Gigguk of Tennis , am I right lad ?
Grunting has definitely diminished in todays game so there is clearly an effort to bring the noise down and I think that is improving popularity for fans. I just watched an excellent US Open women's final where both the young ladies involved were not shrieking or screaming.
I love "BWEH!"
Me 2
BWEH
Bweeth on a slice shot would be nice 😂
as annoying as it is i will never forget when me and my friend decieded to grunt as loud as we could for a game and played of the best tennis of that night. however even forcing ourselves we were never even close to what some of the current players do
What I can’t understand, is that the umpire asks for SILENCE before the serve. Then they GRUNT on the serve. It seems that this favours the server. Why doesn’t the receiver get SILENCE. Or can the receiver GRUNT when the server is serving?
You may be on to something. There is grunting to focus power and exertion and screaming to distract. So if the receiver of the serve grunted just before the server served maybe this annoying practice would cease or at least be tempered.
These are awesome videos. Historical, scientific, and analytical. Great work!
Glad you like them!
Really not very scientific or analytical at all when zero male grunters are sited.
@@artemisianwell5122 I would have liked that to be included in the video as well. Grunting has been derided and over focused a lot in woman’s tennis in comparison to men’s tennis due to sexism but he of course did not have to mention that to talk about grunting in male tennis and the volume in comparison to female tennis and how grunting shapes matches in that context differently.
I think Gustavo Kuerten’s grunt was the only that actually sounded like a breath exhaling technique
Funny how when he talked about the relation between exhaling and grunting I also instantly remembered of Guga.
Roddick?
@@davidambrozic2329 Agassi too had it right.
Basilashvili
@@123suddenattack Nice one, he's like blowing hard when hit the ball
This guy could literally talk about paint drying and it would still be interesting
TRUTH
Yes 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
10 minutes of 100% my attention. Then I realized it was 10 minutes about grunting. This guy can entertain.
Next video: talks about how the lines are painted
That is a summoning salt comment I’ve seen before. Something similar. And it’s true
The production quality on this is just * chef's kiss *
After first insisting that the Umpire made sure all spectators were perfectly silent before serving, I considered the consistent bombardment of loud yelling as a form of "Noise-Attack" on the opponent designed to throw them off their game.
I trained at IMG academy for 5 years and graduated last year and they never told us to specifically grunt, yell, be obnoxious or scream, but I was taught and told to exhale on every hit and not to be shy of being loud. Many others are also very loud and competitive there so that could be why too. I think I had a coach tell me once or twice that he needs to hear my exhales so he knows I am breathing properly too tho
That is very different than, grunting as loud as you possibly can and continuing to make noise well after you’ve hit the ball. A lot of today’s pros need to be gagged LOL
Those justifications don't line up with it. Nothing about that lines up with the *absurd* and prolonged screeches that have become more common. It's clearly outside of what sounds people normally make.
You should only mostly reach 109 decibels because of something like a kidney stone, not a supposed *"completely natural"* exertion sound.
So have these idiots not considered being coaches in MLB? What is their explanation for why immense force is never used in hockey? I am not a fan because hockey players never yell when they slap the puck, and thus it just coasts along at 14 mph or so. Too bad no pseudo scientist from tennis has ever heard of any other sport, just think of the expansions of force they could unleash in MLB, the NFL, or the NHL.
I've always equated tennis grunting to a Kiai in Karate. What you're describing as the exhale on every hit is what's usually taught in dojos everywhere. It's supposed to develop your fighting spirit, psyching yourself up as you hit your target. As an old sensei of mine says; if you don't believe in your punch, or your kick; you're the one who gets hurt when you strike. So just like in tennis, if you don't believe in that stroke, mishits, and unforced errors.
@@Doublebarreledsimian But like tennis grunting, there is of course a range/silent agreement to stay in line usually as well. It's not like every bout involving fighting styles that have kiais are shouting matches.
It's not normal in that to violently throttle your vocal chords for upto entire seconds after a punch/kick. Imagine if it became common for karate practitioners to fill the room with "KIIAI-YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!" for every move they made in a bout lol.
Vocally enunciating your effort is one thing, prolonged screeching every time you do something is distracting and emberassing.
Most of my male tennis friends refuse to watch women's tennis because of the grunting. Viewership of women's tennis may have increased, but it would be even higher without the grunting.
To see how much it's hated, all you have to do is read the comments on any Sabalenka match. At least half of them will be rants about her grunting.
And I don't buy the "it's necessary to exhale" crap. Some of these women continue screaming (not grunting, SCREAMING) long after the ball has been hit. Some of the best players in the world, including #1 Ash Barty, are totally silent. So the "screaming is necessary" argument is bullsh*t.
I once saw a woman lose a point because she screamed after hitting a ball. The umpire called Hindrance. The ironic part is, her opponent screamed EVERY time she hit the ball, and this woman only screamed the one time. She called penalized for one scream, her opponent didn't get penalized for her hundreds of screams. How wrong is that?
One of the funniest moments, which got a huge laugh from the crowd, was when two loudly grunting (well, OK, screaming) players were playing and there was a noise from the audience. The umpire said "Ladies and gentlemen, please do not call out during the course of a rally".
Watching the Aus open 2022 women's final was so nice because neither player screamed during the match!
@@tonybennett4159 crowd : oooohhh hahahaha
Umpire : please, can we have quiet for the players
Crowd : eurghh! AUGHH! EeRR!
Commentators : oh dear. I think the umpire just needs to stay out of this. The less said the better!
Actually, screaming just the once is more worthy to be penalized. It comes across as intentional to mess with the opponent and it being a one off is more likely to mess with an opponent. With the non-stop screamer, it's on every shot, so the opponent is used to the noise and can adapt their game to it. It's like in golf if someone yells right when a person is going to putt or a drive. That's more distracting than if it's just noisy all the time. It would be the same if a member of the audience scream just as a player was going to serve. So totally deserved.
grunting is a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. Sharapova was very popular so it clearly doesn't matter much to casual fans
The production value on these are insane
Martial artists do this. In Korean arts it is known as a "Kiyap", a cry performed during a strike to help focus the attack, startle the opponent, and add commitment to the follow through. It is extremely effective when done correctly.
Let’s be real, when you exhale is so loud and lasts long enough for the ball to be returned before you’re done. It’s excessive lol
There is a grunt and a scream, the two are not the same.
BWEH still the only grunt I'm not annoyed of.
For me it's Rublev's BWEEH and Nadal's iconic HNNNGHHH
I totally agree. This and Sharapova for me are the only annoying ones.
That’s un-BWEH-lievable.
@@johnman9386 I cannot stand watching sharapova because of her grunt
@@Matheus-ki9zo Nah, Nadal's grunt is actually obnoxious af. But people look past it because he is one of the greatest and a nice guy. But in truth its unbearable at times.
Don't call yourself a loser
You're awesome CT ❤️
OMG Your editing level is SO out of this world!! and the research you do and your understanding of everything, WOW man you are the GOAT
Thank you for that !
It’s a shame this practice has become so pervasive throughout tennis. It really makes the offenders’ matches far less enjoyable to watch. (Not to mention the distraction it causes for their opponent) I almost feel compelled to watch on mute if a match involves a player doing this particularly egregiously.
This is one of the (many) reasons I always enjoyed Federer matches so much and miss him not playing on the tour right now. He played almost entirely silent and also quickly in between points, so you could just sit back and enjoy the beautiful and amazing tennis on display. No long pauses and disruptive noises to diminish the experience. Of course…Nadal supplied enough of those for the both of them when they faced off! ;)
I don't watch grunters at all, it's right up there with open mouth chewing for me. Federer was a great example of, you actually dont NEED grunts to play at the highest levels on earth. Maybe courtside sound cancelling tech will become a thing 😅
Roger used grunt too... When under pressure
Short, not-too-loud grunts I can put up with, but the full-on screaming from players like Sabalenka is totally unnecessary. Makes you appreciate people like Sinner and Swiatek who barely make a sound.
Jesus, Larcher de Brito took it to another level. Her shriek was simply diabolical, and she was no where good enough to be able to get away with it.
At the end of the day, you can't stop players from grunting unless it's inconsistent and deliberate and clearly falls on the side of hindrance.
I always wondered what happened to her career.. she was the worst screamer ever..
So doctor here just wanna add something to the discussion.
So muscle cells have these proteins called actin and myosin. To cause muscle shortening, these two have to get closer together and to relax (which takes ATP aka the universal energy source of the body).
This is why when people die, they are stiff as a board. There is no more energy to promote muscle relaxation.
Anyways back to the grunting.....
The thing is to prevent excessive shortening, the body leaves about 10-15% of non interacting space between the proteins. Think of it as a fail safe.
However in true fight or flight response, your own life is way more important than slightly damaging some muscles. To overcome this purposeful suboptimal muscle contraction, you can have acess to that 10-15% unused muscle contraction by grunting. This is called the golgi tendon body reflex/golgi tendon organ reflex.
Think if how you grunt when you dead lift/bench or pick up a heavy box when you move. It's the same thing.
Though I don't think there's a correlation to scream that loud and unlocking new levels of power (unless you live it n the dragon ball universe)
There's the material side of It as well. Screaming and grunting are important to stabilish dominance
I remember when I tried out kendo in high school and the instructor told me to really try and unleash my energy into one strike. My body was so into it that when I released all that energy I let out an involuntary yell. Felt really good in comparison to when I tried to hold it in because I thought it was more 'controlled' to do so. Fascinating stuff!
@@sharonwong5688 I was juste thinking about Kendo when I. commented that
Yeah, Players like Sharapova were compared to the decibel level of jet planes as they are/were so loud. This is surely a little more than 10-15%. Clearly gamesmanship. Whether it is to intimidate an opponent, distract or whatever it is clearly being put on, and should not be allowed in my opinion. Glad they have been cracking down on the practice at the junior level, but they haven't at the pro level, which doesn't seem right to me since young aspiring players get their inspiration from the pros and want to copy them. The body needs to exhale, and the abdominal muscles tighten up in the process resulting in a sound, but it doesn't need to be much noise.
@@sharonwong5688 yes this is a great example!
This channel always makes my day better!
I quit watching women's tennis altogether, not only because the unnecessary, disrupting, annoying noises, but also for the decidedly low quality of play as compared to that of the men's. Calling these noises "grunting" is a euphemism that should not be tolerated, as it trivializes its intended purpose, which is to gain an unfair advantage over the opponent.
Just view the video starting at around 1:28 or so. It is a "tactic" actually taught at academies, which clearly are only focused on winning and not on competing fairly.
Truth be told, some male players can also be heard making noises, e.g., Nadal, but never to the level of a M. Sharapova, S. Williams, or V. Azarenka. Unfortunately, this behavior has been tolerated for far too long, and will cause the viewership to diminish. People know that this is an unfair tactic and will lose interest! Not exactly what the players and league want.
I can't stand watching modern tennis specifically because of all the grunting. I absolutely hate it.
Very Analytical & Scientific! Your topics & presentations are unique from the rest
Keep growing!
😇😇
CockandBalls
@@ManOfPillowDoom .
Ok, the breathing, the science, the coach who wants to hear the pupil’s breath... but let’s not pretend they do it JUST for that reason. The fact that it annoys the opponent is not just a happy coincidence.
I came very close to leaving a Sharapova centre court Wimbledon Match it was so gawd darn annoying.
Its absolutely unnecessary when it's screeching
She's the worst player in tennis history. A 6'2" screaming demon from Hell. I'm glad she's not playing anymore. Her incessant double faults also are as annoying. Screaming/ grunting is a form of gamesmanship that should be outlawed or punished by fines and penalty points.
@@rushshukla4636 Sadly, she also had some bitchy things to say during her career. A great tennis player, but completely insufferable.
Great video, thanks.
Even though coaches might want to hear the ‘breath’, they definitely know that with the minimal advantage it gives their ‘grunter/screamer’ it becomes a much bigger disadvantage for their opponent. 2 ft in tennis is huge.
Serena’s screams often seemed like that to me. Instead of being loudest when she was winning, as you would expect if it was an advantage, she got louder the worse she was playing and the further she got behind.
Seles changing something so major in her game for a slam final was actually a pretty dumb move, no wonder she regrets it, that’s something for the off-season. Most players wouldn’t even change their shoe laces at that point.
I never knew this was an issue, in tennis! Very informative video.
The whole situation actually reminds me of a similar issue in fencing, at least here in Greece. When players score a point, they will often shout into the air. Ive heard its alternatively to relieve tension and to convince the referee to give them the point during controversial "phases"(?) (Basically whenever its uncertain who had right of way in a bout)
I was at a tourney, recently, and one of the schools' participant were being EXTREMELY loud whenever they scored...! It was qyite distracting, actually. Admittedly, thats not the sort of thing that happens during gameplay, so its ptobably more of a psychological/intimidation factor, there.
I’ve noticed that most portayals of tennis on tv shows are doubles, yet singles is actually much more popular in real life
Edit: thanks for telling me in the replies, I have rarely ever played doubles
that's because the actors aren't good enough athletes to even attempt singles at any level. Doubles is extremely athletic too, but the camera can give the illusion because the actors can stay in place
Singles is much more popular among couch potatoes. If you watch tennis, you mostly watch singles. If you play tennis, however, it's usually doubles. Singles is too physically demanding or points are two shots long at best.
Probably because doubles puts more characters directly in the scene, giving the writers more to work with.
@@rafarequeni822 I think that only applies to adults though or people that start playing tennis at a late age. I have been playing for 10 years or so and I always play singles, much more than doubles
Doubles can be much more enjoyable for people who aren't in peak physical condition. Certainly at a high level it's every bit as athletic as singles, but if you put a non-tennis player on a singles court they're just going to look like an idiot as they desperately run around trying to chase everything down, while doubles can be enjoyed even by middling-level club players well into their 70s.
This channel is pure gold. The novelty of topics, the research, the editing, subtle jokes, occasional memes make the videos of this channel worth watching. This channel deserves more subscribers.
I personally don't watch any Tennis because I just didn't really find anyone that really blew me away as a newbie.
The grunting was one of the parts that pushed me away from it.I know now why it makes sense so it's a little better that in the past.
I still watched all of your videos because their so well done and very interesting.
You explain everything very understandably and clear for people like me,who don't know much about Tennis in general.
So cheers to you!!
Hey thanks so much for the nice comment , and thank you for watching!!
I think it's reasonable for exhausted players to grunt (for example, those fighting in a long drawn-out match). Systematically encouraging/cultivating that habit should not be allowed. BTW I doubt Steve Simon's contribution to women's tour. A manager's performance can only be judged at least several years after he takes control.
this is actually crazy. great video - good work
When I lived in halls at university, I used to have to walk past the indoor tennis court every day, and even outside you could hear over-the-top grunting. The sports stars of today are setting a bad example for those of tomorrow.
Why should tennis be different than any other sport. (Antonio Brown, anybody?)
Having played abit myself, I can definitely vouch for the fact that the mild can definitely increase your performance but the excessive grunting is nothing but a distraction tactic
exactly, I only grunt when it's those really difficult balls that really push your body to the limit or when I want to hit a ball as hard as I can, but screaming is juts ridiculous
Excessuve grunting is player interference, which is sanctioned in the Rules, thus it should not be allowed. One main reason it is allowed is money: imagine banning Sharapova because of her grunting. Would her $ponsors and the WTA allow that? Imagine the lost money. Yes, the sport is being corrupted and that can be a very sad thing.
Amazing vid! Well done! Only thing missing was talking about delayed grunting where players grunt long after they've hit the ball just before their opponent is trying to hit. The worst.
Case in point: Martina Trevisan (Italy). I absolutely hate her for this.
I was just about to say, some guys must have forgot how loud Monica Seles was! Heck, people exhale differently and make different noises when playing. Add that to fact microphones on court make the grunts sound louder(believe me, I saw Rafa playing in person in Rome, his grunts are not a loud as you'd think satching on TV). Where I draw the line on grunting/screaming/shrieking it's when it's done disproportionately with the intensity of the shot, or when it's done way later after the shot is complete(sometimes even when the ball bounces on your opponent's side). That's when it's straight up hindrance.
My issue is more for how long some of them maintain the scream, it can carry till their opponent is making contact with the ball.
Should we consider this just a fair tactic that players need to adjust to or is it a form of cheating? If there's any way to measure it, I'd love to see statistics on how many times players lose points or make errors because of screaming from their opponent. Numbers don't lie.
I can agree with the being taught to grunt part. When I joined an international academy they taught us to go “huh” when the ball bounced and “ehhh” when we hit so that we relaxed when hitting the shot. I noticeably play better when doing it but try to not be too loud
Was that Schiavone's academy?
This channels quality in editing and overall watchability is excellent. Top notch and very impressive.
Obnoxious grunting could also be done to say, "Look at me, look at me."
Having just learned the game recently in my old age, I appreciate the skill of these young players on the court. They do not get enough credit . The grunting does not bother me when watching an intense game. The games appear to be more and more intense these days, it is not the same polite game of 50 years ago, it has become a chess tournament with ball and racquet.
damn this editing is spectacular! really appreciating the time you take with motion graphics and thoughtful scripting
9:05 Wow, that was savage.
Nothing but Truth. 😉
Fed's cheerleaders gonna be butthurt.
@@krafthund Federer is worst case scenario the third best overall player in history (and it's far more likely that he's the second). So I think Federer fans will be alright haha.
Still, what a savage joke!
@@krafthund nah. For one of the mentally weakest players in history that can only tell how good of a player he actually is. Consistency and ability is unmatched by him. The fact that nole will overtake him just now is a testament to his never give up attitude. To put it simply when novak plays poorly roger destroys him. When roger plays poorly novak barely beats him and usually by federer choking. I'm just amazed that with a the luck novak has had with injuries and opponents choking that he hasn't won at least 50 slams. Frankly that's embarrassing in my opinion.
@@dusanstanisic7567 👏👏👏
your videos are of such a high standard, it's incredible! Very analytical and well designed, interesting animations and cuts.
Keep up the great work :)
Just like tennis, there are some martial art styles that grunt when they strike. I didn’t understand grunting before, until I started to serve much harder. Then I found out I’ll grunt naturally when I try to hit extra hard. It helps me concentrate power into the strike. I think grunting is mainly a habit that helps the player, more so than a distraction tactics. Distraction is typically deployed at a critical moment, like a fake shot, not on every stroke.
I will not watch a game where the grunting is noticeable. How many others turn off the TV?
They do it also to distract the opponent. Sharapova rarely grunted during practice, but would kill her vocal cords screaming. Same with Azarenka, and more than half of the Spaniard players (both men and women), as well as the South Americans. If it's not prohibited, then players will do it.
Right-o. "What the law permits, it encourages."
For me as (quiet) hobby tennis player, grunting is used by my opponents for preventing me to hear the contact sound, ie, the type of shots they are performing. And for psychological reasons of looking strength in some particular point.
I was in one such academy. They 100% do and told us it would help us hit harder… It actually made our opponents hit harder trying to beat us quicker to save their ear drums
The problem is, there's a difference between grunting and the screeching we hear in women's tennis. At some point it's just simply unreasonable.
I fucking love that section where the crowd at the Melbourne's match was mocking them.
Haha Svitolina started screeching like a beast in the middle of the match today because Leylah was putting a whooping on her. Too bad it wasn't enough and LEYLAH STILL WON!!!! that noise is horribly annoying. Azarenka is another person that has a horrible shriek... normal grunts aren't bad or annoying but some people way overdo it and sometimes I get a little suspicious that some players do it to throw their opponent off... like today im convinced that's why Svitolina randomly started doing it in the middle of the match when she was losing.
Ya she does that a lot at does Halep and Potopova. One minute they're grunting loudly and the next they completely stop.
I tried this "grunting improves performance" theory on my wife when we made love. She wasn't impressed, i still only lasted 3 seconds, so no improvement from grunting.
It's not just the sound you gotta control the breathing and you'll be at 6 seconds before you know it bruv
I think the problem was when you tried to use a one-handed backhand.
Game, set, match
3 seconds huh? I should try your technique tonight. I just hope I don't go light headed from going so long.
Perhaps you gotta better time your split step... 🤔
Two other things I think are worth noting:
1) Some players say they grunt because, as kids, their coaches said they weren't hitting the ball as hard as they could. So they effectively trained themselves to grunt loudly at a young age to show they're hitting as hard as they can. I think it was Sharapova who said this once.
2) The advantage of exhaling sharply to tighten muscles isn't a strong argument in favor of grunting. You can achieve the same effect at a much quieter level. Anyone who has done Taekwondo knows this - you're taught to exhale sharply making a kind of "huttt" breath sound. It's not loud at all but is just as effective as audible grunting.
Honestly, in my opinion, if the grunt is quick, it's not on purpose, if it's long and exaggerated, then it's purposely done because as said in the video, when you hit the ball really hard, you can let out an exhale that makes a noise but when it's done like that, it will only ever be quick meaning that the majority of tennis players purposely grunt to gain some ssort of advantage. Hard truth whether you agree or not. Great video btw.
I hate grunting *SO* much. Just shut the hell up play the game. If you gotta breathe or whatever, just breathe! Don't *SCREAM* your damn guts out every single time!
I give this an overall "HUH...UGH"
This is a very needed video
Great topic, I’ve always wondered this myself. Also I strongly doubt not grunting that one match was Monica celles’s biggest regret
I am just so glad that the new girls like Emma and Laylah are not grunters. They did take out many loud grunters on their way to the final.
I was halfway expecting this video to cover stomping in table tennis, particularly when serving. The stomp provides an auditory mask over paddle/ball contact, which can be used as a pretty significant indicator of how much spin/power is imparted on the ball when paired with the visual movement. In table tennis you can telegraph a big hit while actually hitting softly and vice versa; the sound of the paddle hit can quickly tell you what's happening UNLESS the hit itself is muffled with a well-timed foot stomp.
I'm wondering if a similar effect is occurring during a tennis racket hit&grunt on top of the physiological tightening of the core muscles
I hate and despise grunting tennis noises it turns me off from even watching it.
Everything in moderation. Some grunts, you can just tell are excessive and unnecessary. For example, when you're slicing the ball or hitting finesse shots, do you really need to grunt loudly?
As for Nick Bolleteri. I never liked him. I always felt like he is especially a poor coach when it comes to character.
Great video once again! Would be interesting to see who amongst top men have also benefited from grunting (Nadal, Murray, etc)
I've been a fan of tennis for as long as I can remember and your content really adds to my love for the sport. Awesome editing and content, keep it up!
Fun to play, humdrum to watch for some of us. It really reminds me of Showbol (indoor soccer) and its changes and evolution. Pickleball is in its early stages and probably some tweaks might come in the future at pro-level to make it more appealing?
No one is grunting in volley ball, badminton, football, rugby, handball, ping pong, I continue ? Do I really need to, it's pathetic 😂😂😂
Your videos are just amazing! Thank you so much for doing this!
Thanks for being here!
Bear in mind that deciBels are a logarithmic scale, where an increase of 10dB is roughly equivalent to double the perceived loudness of a sound.
That means Larcher de Brito is around FOUR times louder than Seles.
'Gut-grunting' vs 'shrieking'.
The Fletcher-Munson effect also scales; i.e. meaning that perceived loudness varies based on frequency content as well as dB level.
For example, an increase of 10dB in only low bass frequencies of 20-60 Hz won't bear anywhere the dramatic change in perceived loudness that +10dB@2kHz-5kHz will. (+10dB is usually going to sound a lot more than 2x louder, btw. Mid-to-high frequency sounds can seem to be at least 5x louder when raised 10dB)
The avg adult homo sapien's ear is most sensitive in this 2kHz-5KHz range because it is right where the most discernment and definition between vocal consonants occurs.
The next gen of loud grunters will defenitely come from Rafael Nadal Academy.
LMAOO
😂
Alcaraz is already up there with the noise trying to emulate his master.
Bro your videos are so high quality , easy to understand and fun to watch
I'm not even a tennis fan and some how i have been here ALL DAY LONG!!!! Great work man!
and then there's Sonego
How’d you make the cool Nole animations at around 4:15?
9:07 was just salt in the wound 😭 cult tennis keeps tearing into Roger for that choke like bruh
Was looking for this. No grunt on the approach = weak, rolly no angle fh. Shoulda gone for 4 first serves!!!
Seriously? Negativity around playing tennis? Another reason I’m glad I’ve never lived in the US.
Grunting in weightlifting and power lifting actually 8s unintentional. it's air escaping the intensity of the velsalva movement under extreme duress, but they do not scream or drag it out. In fact it's in their best interest to fight to keep it under wraps as that stored air is vital to stability and muscular tension and thus prevents injury.
I find it hard to believed the prolonged howling in some of these examples is at all necessary, it's not like we see golfers screaming after a long drive as a part of their follow through - and they are assuredly delivering equal if not exceeding amounts of effort in order to move the ball in their sport.
it’s the equivalent to people who moan excessively loudly in the gym after every rep lol