Didn't see all of it yet but skimming it I can tell it's a much better test. Hard to consider logs when the tune is affected and a 'perfect' tune is both not possible and qualitative. I've got two of the same quad. One with the Smoox 1880kv and the other with my 25mm 1880kv (and a third with the 1870kv). I can clearly tell a difference between the dive handling of the Smoox 2306.5 vs the 25mm motors vs the kv differences. If it's not my own 25mm motor, the RCinpower Bison is all I would fly (Update on the Bison, it's no longer cheap so it's a no-go. Back to the Smoox 2306.5 1880kv as the top motor if not my own) Also, the ideal prop for the 25mm is the 51433 (or any med to low pitch 5"-51" prop) in order to maximize the altitude control effect. The 5226 is quite a bit more powerful and harder to manage altitude on. 5.5" is great on the motor but doesn't feel as snappy, sharp and nice to fly as 4.9"-5.1". You'll be quite pleased to see the new version of the motor as well as the magnet configuration I'll be testing soon. I'm only testing these magnets now because we figured out a way to manufacture them reasonably.
@@pgabrieli yeah I just looked earlier yesterday and discovered that too. They used to be $16 for a long time. That's why they were so awesome. The Smoox 2306.5 1880kv is the best alternative over my own motor. The 25mm is essentially a Smoox but with 2mm more width.
I get the purpose of scientific data and analysis but bro the imperial 25mm motors are the absolute best motors I've ever flown and default is default when you take the time to tune and take the advice given on your website for props and battery nothing flys like that setup bro! Keep it up! Your products across the board are top shelf.
Thank you Chris! Just as I expected…..after 40+ years of RC……..the equipment and selection is incredible and inexpensive……the weakest link remains…….the Pilots😎 I’m off to practice❤️
@@Dennis-mq3vx They drop their bells 👎The reason given is that the manufacturer used the wrong loctite on the bells and FPVCycle know about this. I wouldn't recommend them as a dropped bell will cause a crash and may burn out your ESC.
The copper weigth in each motor have a great influence in performance also. I have tested alot of motors in the range of 1504 to 1606 and the ones with more copper are the one that perform best. . .
Well done sir. I have to admit, best testing and explanation so far. It covers most of my experience I've made so far with different motors. Now give us some 7" love, they become more and more popular and do the same motor shootout on 2806.5 motors to find the most efficient 7" motor out there. I have nearly all 7" props that being sold on market and would sponsor you a set of each for testing. I'm looking for the most efficient 7" setup for high speed cruise (80-90kmh). My actual approach is using low kv motors and high pitch props.
Sorry I couldn't make the stream yesterday. To answer your questions my drone weighs approximately 820 grams and this was the first time I had flown this spot. My flight probably looks floaty because I run a 25 degree cam angle with 2506 motors and 5226 props I get lots of lift with this setup.
Thanks Chris, love the data driven approach! I’m planning on building a 6” quad in the coming weeks, made to be flown in really strong winds as I film kiteboarders in extreme winds (40-50 knot winds). I was looking at the FPVcycle 25mm, as I’m hearing a lot of good things about them. I would probably go for the lower KV option of the two though as I need to max out the battery time, fly the 6 inch props on it and don’t need it to be super snappy as it is for filming. Would you find those suitable for the job, or would you suggest to go with some other ones? Really hope you see this and have the time to share your thoughts on it! Thanks in advance, have a great day man.
Take a wider range of prop diameters and a wider range of motors and pair them all together to see if there is a clear trend, to having too much motor vs to little prop and the opposite. As well as any clear trends. You really started to touch on how weight on the ends of the arms affects rotational delay with the pid toolbox analysis. I think that vs thrust stand delay data is very interesting. I just wanna see what the trends are when pushed to the extremes since many of these motors are pretty similar in this and the last video. Keep it up this is the most interesting production I've found since I've gotten into the hobby.
So larger stator volume doesn't help and 25mm motor seems to be overkill for 5". Then what if 2207/2306 are also too large? I'd be curious to know what's the smallest stator size motor you can get away with for the freestyle without overheating it? How it's going to affect prop response time, axis response and punch outs?
That's a good question. There is an improvement in response from 2306 to 2207 but not from 2207 to 2506. For freestyle I would think 2205 is probably about as small as you would want to go on typical 5" props
@@ChrisRosser my gut feeling is: - response time is dominated by motor's bell inertia rather then prop inertia - much of the drone's motors heat comes from PID noise (Gyro noise, excessive D-term etc) rather then actual load - performance has got much more to do with prop and KV matching rather then stator size
@@MrTempatel Prop weight becomes a problem in terms of response when you reach a certain weight on certain motor sizes. Like on 7" there is a big variance in weight on different props. The lightest 3 blade weight 7.2g while the heaviest weight 9.5g. You can feel and see in BB logs a big difference on 2806.5 motors between the light and heavy prop. Or go even bigger, I have 9" props running on 2812 motors weighting 14.4g and others at 21g. With the heavy props the quad becomes completely unstable because motors are not powerful enough to maintain quick rpm changes. On small motors this effect becomes less a problem than on bigger ones.
interesting, im running the 2506 xing2 motors on my 6", but wondering if they are too small :/ what is your suggestion? the stator volume is about the same as a 2208, and considering switching. for more responsiveness. I dont know if it will make a difference.
Chris what motor/prop combo would you recommend for a heavy 5" quad (800gr) with Gopro10 and 1300mah Lipo ? currently running 2306.5 1950kv but i need something more snappy
Great video! Really like your way of examining things rather than jerky tests that actually doesnt show anything. When doing flips and rolls for blackbox logs I always thought about setting up a momentary switch that, when activated, sets the radio input to lets say max roll left? Is there a way by combining logical switches together? Im asking cause im not a pro in open tx..
Great yeah, will do when im home from work :) That way we would have the real answer of the quadsystem and it would be more consistent rather than trying to knock the stick to each side as fast as possible.
@@ChrisRosser Yes, you can script your tricks in LUA and put them on a switch. Takes a bit of trial and error, but it can be done. I once scripted a rubix cube just to show that it can indeed be done ;-)
bought the new aos 5,5 v2 frame and have 2306 1700kv and 2207 1750kv motors lying around - should i buy new 2208 motors and if yes which ones do you recommend apart from the fpvcycle (bad availability in europe), thanks in advance!
Chris how do you think the rc in power would fair with gemfan sbang 4934 props? On mid/lighting quad. (118g frame without electronics, with standard electronics and a vista)
Halo, will you try the new vroom motor? which is 2505.5 and 30g each, that same size as 25mm but have the weight of 2207. Save 30g and have the performance of large stator volume?
Would it not be better to have the motors in test be closer if not the same in kv... as it's been shown just limiting the kv of one motor down to a lower kv you loose efficiency, so maybe there something else in the performance that would make a difference in this type of test...?
In fact it would be interesting to take the same motor at higher and lower kv and throttle limit on it then do this test, maybe it has been done... I know it was done for the efficiency but not sure if it was looked into more then that. Oh great info as always!!!
Some pilots prefer that feel. Some people like a very damped smooth stick response with lots of latency. That's one of the attractions of KISS for example. It's not my preference but everyone should know what RC smoothing does and use the amount they like.
Hey Chris nice test, I used to have set of 4 wasp major 2020kv , in crash one got totally destroyed (pretty hard crash, electronics also gave up, also fpv cam and anttena) So I am left with 3 wasp major of 2020kv, And currently it out of stock for the same kv in my country, available option is only 2450kv, So If I use 3 2020kv with one 2450kv will I have issues at top end, or betaflight will take care of it, And I am good to fly
If you can't get a 2020kv, then you'll be fine with a 2450. Betaflight will just spin that motor a little slower. It's not ideal, but it should still fly well.
They are in fact made by RCinpower. They're a really great manufacturer but have been known to fumble things here and there like any other manufacturer.
Thank you for taking the time to do this test, I think the flying you did is not going to bring out the differences, at least thats not how I feel the differences. I fly around about < 1 meter off the floor and dive into gaps and around trees. I have three quads that only have different motors, the 2306 Eco2 1700kv, 2306 Eco2 1900kv and Ethix Stout V4 2306 1750kv - I can tell the difference between all 3 of these every time I fly. So I'm absolutely amazed that you couldnt feel a difference between those motors, maybe flying much closer to objects and more proximity will bring out the differences. I will have to try a blind test because I am convinced I will get it right 100% of the time the differences are that pronounced.
I'm sure you can feel a difference, all those motors have markedly different full throttle thrust and power. The test is whether motor size and shape matters separately to just the max thrust the motor can make (i.e. 2207 higher KV vs 25mm lower KV with the exact same top end thrust). You can test this as I did using a throttle scale to match the top end of the motors.
I just swapped out my 2207 1960kv motors w 2306 1810kv motors...I know it's not a direct comparison but the 2207 motors had to much thrust for my liking and we're way more power hungry. Af227/af236.
I think you need to do blind tests with only different FCs. Then again with only different ESCs. Then again with only different frames. I think that Its probably hard to find major differences between similar spec hardware.
I don't think blind flight feel testing is very useful in general. Blackbox log analysis is more objective and can definitely determine smaller differences than I can as a pilot. I wouldn't expect FC/ESC to make any difference on flight performance.
I've found that Prop/Motor is a better rule to follow. The only reason to use a bigger motor is if you are using a larger prop/steeper pitch prop/more blades. Or if you are at the limit of the motor overheating and need more top end power. A lot of pilots are using huge motors on cinewhoops at the moment when they don't need to. Adding more motor weight to an already heavy build is usually a bad idea.
@@ChrisRosser love your videos and Kabobs. I have a 5.5 v2 coming in I want to put a Medline gimbal and the GP bones on and I will continue flying my Glide light for freestyle.
Didn't see all of it yet but skimming it I can tell it's a much better test. Hard to consider logs when the tune is affected and a 'perfect' tune is both not possible and qualitative. I've got two of the same quad. One with the Smoox 1880kv and the other with my 25mm 1880kv (and a third with the 1870kv). I can clearly tell a difference between the dive handling of the Smoox 2306.5 vs the 25mm motors vs the kv differences.
If it's not my own 25mm motor, the RCinpower Bison is all I would fly (Update on the Bison, it's no longer cheap so it's a no-go. Back to the Smoox 2306.5 1880kv as the top motor if not my own) Also, the ideal prop for the 25mm is the 51433 (or any med to low pitch 5"-51" prop) in order to maximize the altitude control effect. The 5226 is quite a bit more powerful and harder to manage altitude on. 5.5" is great on the motor but doesn't feel as snappy, sharp and nice to fly as 4.9"-5.1".
You'll be quite pleased to see the new version of the motor as well as the magnet configuration I'll be testing soon. I'm only testing these magnets now because we figured out a way to manufacture them reasonably.
I still love your 25mm motors on my pirate hook v2 and ethix s4 props. Can’t wait for your next version of these motors.
@@pgabrieli yeah I just looked earlier yesterday and discovered that too. They used to be $16 for a long time. That's why they were so awesome. The Smoox 2306.5 1880kv is the best alternative over my own motor. The 25mm is essentially a Smoox but with 2mm more width.
Yeah, can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve!
I get the purpose of scientific data and analysis but bro the imperial 25mm motors are the absolute best motors I've ever flown and default is default when you take the time to tune and take the advice given on your website for props and battery nothing flys like that setup bro! Keep it up! Your products across the board are top shelf.
Thank you Chris!
Just as I expected…..after 40+ years of RC……..the equipment and selection is incredible and inexpensive……the weakest link remains…….the Pilots😎
I’m off to practice❤️
Ur work is absolutely good for the FPV community
long live the AOS
Much appreciated!
@@ChrisRosser what do u think of the build quality of the FPV cycle motor ?
@@Dennis-mq3vx They drop their bells 👎The reason given is that the manufacturer used the wrong loctite on the bells and FPVCycle know about this. I wouldn't recommend them as a dropped bell will cause a crash and may burn out your ESC.
The copper weigth in each motor have a great influence in performance also. I have tested alot of motors in the range of 1504 to 1606 and the ones with more copper are the one that perform best. . .
Great point!
If you fly the quad with the fpv cycle motors using the 5.2" prop you will be in love for sure
I agree I these are my current favorites, I also put them on my 2207.5 2550 motors and it's super snappy!
Well done sir. I have to admit, best testing and explanation so far. It covers most of my experience I've made so far with different motors.
Now give us some 7" love, they become more and more popular and do the same motor shootout on 2806.5 motors to find the most efficient 7" motor out there.
I have nearly all 7" props that being sold on market and would sponsor you a set of each for testing.
I'm looking for the most efficient 7" setup for high speed cruise (80-90kmh). My actual approach is using low kv motors and high pitch props.
Wow mind blowing experiment design! Thank you for what you doing, it’s a huge contribution to fpv development 🙏
Excellent comparison, good job, thanks
Sorry I couldn't make the stream yesterday. To answer your questions my drone weighs approximately 820 grams and this was the first time I had flown this spot. My flight probably looks floaty because I run a 25 degree cam angle with 2506 motors and 5226 props I get lots of lift with this setup.
Thanks Chris, love the data driven approach! I’m planning on building a 6” quad in the coming weeks, made to be flown in really strong winds as I film kiteboarders in extreme winds (40-50 knot winds). I was looking at the FPVcycle 25mm, as I’m hearing a lot of good things about them. I would probably go for the lower KV option of the two though as I need to max out the battery time, fly the 6 inch props on it and don’t need it to be super snappy as it is for filming. Would you find those suitable for the job, or would you suggest to go with some other ones? Really hope you see this and have the time to share your thoughts on it! Thanks in advance, have a great day man.
Yourfpv is great! I can recommend them also. They are the only ones who carry RCinpower in the UK!
THX for your testing👍
Take a wider range of prop diameters and a wider range of motors and pair them all together to see if there is a clear trend, to having too much motor vs to little prop and the opposite. As well as any clear trends. You really started to touch on how weight on the ends of the arms affects rotational delay with the pid toolbox analysis. I think that vs thrust stand delay data is very interesting. I just wanna see what the trends are when pushed to the extremes since many of these motors are pretty similar in this and the last video. Keep it up this is the most interesting production I've found since I've gotten into the hobby.
So larger stator volume doesn't help and 25mm motor seems to be overkill for 5". Then what if 2207/2306 are also too large? I'd be curious to know what's the smallest stator size motor you can get away with for the freestyle without overheating it? How it's going to affect prop response time, axis response and punch outs?
That's a good question. There is an improvement in response from 2306 to 2207 but not from 2207 to 2506. For freestyle I would think 2205 is probably about as small as you would want to go on typical 5" props
@@ChrisRosser my gut feeling is:
- response time is dominated by motor's bell inertia rather then prop inertia
- much of the drone's motors heat comes from PID noise (Gyro noise, excessive D-term etc) rather then actual load
- performance has got much more to do with prop and KV matching rather then stator size
@@MrTempatel
Prop weight becomes a problem in terms of response when you reach a certain weight on certain motor sizes. Like on 7" there is a big variance in weight on different props. The lightest 3 blade weight 7.2g while the heaviest weight 9.5g. You can feel and see in BB logs a big difference on 2806.5 motors between the light and heavy prop.
Or go even bigger, I have 9" props running on 2812 motors weighting 14.4g and others at 21g. With the heavy props the quad becomes completely unstable because motors are not powerful enough to maintain quick rpm changes.
On small motors this effect becomes less a problem than on bigger ones.
Great video.Thx Chris.
interesting, im running the 2506 xing2 motors on my 6", but wondering if they are too small :/
what is your suggestion? the stator volume is about the same as a 2208, and considering switching. for more responsiveness.
I dont know if it will make a difference.
Good test and analysis. Thanks.
Chris what motor/prop combo would you recommend for a heavy 5" quad (800gr) with Gopro10 and 1300mah Lipo ? currently running 2306.5 1950kv but i need something more snappy
2207/2208 with HQ 5x4.3x3 V1S that'll give the best performance.
Great video! Really like your way of examining things rather than jerky tests that actually doesnt show anything.
When doing flips and rolls for blackbox logs I always thought about setting up a momentary switch that, when activated, sets the radio input to lets say max roll left? Is there a way by combining logical switches together? Im asking cause im not a pro in open tx..
You can use something like trick on a switch? ua-cam.com/video/tocH6IgbK7k/v-deo.html I might have to look into that for future tests.
It is. Not a pro either, but I did that for some time ago. If interested I can send it. You cam mail me on benny.simonsen and it is a gmail
Great yeah, will do when im home from work :)
That way we would have the real answer of the quadsystem and it would be more consistent rather than trying to knock the stick to each side as fast as possible.
@@ChrisRosser Yes, you can script your tricks in LUA and put them on a switch. Takes a bit of trial and error, but it can be done. I once scripted a rubix cube just to show that it can indeed be done ;-)
bought the new aos 5,5 v2 frame and have 2306 1700kv and 2207 1750kv motors lying around - should i buy new 2208 motors and if yes which ones do you recommend apart from the fpvcycle (bad availability in europe), thanks in advance!
ps: want to carry a full hero 10
2207 should be OK. 2208 XINGs are very good also.
@@ChrisRosser ok thanks! will first try what i have then. what do you think about the 2506 xing v2? they have them in 1350kv f.e.
Chris how do you think the rc in power would fair with gemfan sbang 4934 props? On mid/lighting quad. (118g frame without electronics, with standard electronics and a vista)
For that rig I would consider the GTSV3 2107 lighter and smaller than the wasp and better matched to a smaller prop. Smaller prop = smaller motor.
Halo, will you try the new vroom motor? which is 2505.5 and 30g each, that same size as 25mm but have the weight of 2207. Save 30g and have the performance of large stator volume?
Interesting, just looked at those says 34grams, I'm assuming that's with all the wire so 1 gram less the the FPVcycle, but interesting.
test the 2150kv 25mm. im very curious
Would it not be better to have the motors in test be closer if not the same in kv... as it's been shown just limiting the kv of one motor down to a lower kv you loose efficiency, so maybe there something else in the performance that would make a difference in this type of test...?
In fact it would be interesting to take the same motor at higher and lower kv and throttle limit on it then do this test, maybe it has been done... I know it was done for the efficiency but not sure if it was looked into more then that.
Oh great info as always!!!
Why do you recommend RC smoothing that is adding latency?
Some pilots prefer that feel. Some people like a very damped smooth stick response with lots of latency. That's one of the attractions of KISS for example. It's not my preference but everyone should know what RC smoothing does and use the amount they like.
Hey Chris nice test,
I used to have set of 4 wasp major 2020kv , in crash one got totally destroyed (pretty hard crash, electronics also gave up, also fpv cam and anttena)
So I am left with 3 wasp major of 2020kv,
And currently it out of stock for the same kv in my country, available option is only 2450kv,
So If I use 3 2020kv with one 2450kv will I have issues at top end, or betaflight will take care of it,
And I am good to fly
If you can't get a 2020kv, then you'll be fine with a 2450. Betaflight will just spin that motor a little slower. It's not ideal, but it should still fly well.
@@brubakerjm hey thanks , maybe I can get it recoiled
Pretty sure rcinpower makes the 25 mm Fpvcycle motor..
RCinPower uses unibells though
Kabob says all motors are pretty close. Even the budget ones. He only likes his and Rcinpower so I don't doubt it
They are in fact made by RCinpower. They're a really great manufacturer but have been known to fumble things here and there like any other manufacturer.
@@Kabab always love the transparency Bob!
Thank you for taking the time to do this test, I think the flying you did is not going to bring out the differences, at least thats not how I feel the differences. I fly around about < 1 meter off the floor and dive into gaps and around trees. I have three quads that only have different motors, the 2306 Eco2 1700kv, 2306 Eco2 1900kv and Ethix Stout V4 2306 1750kv - I can tell the difference between all 3 of these every time I fly. So I'm absolutely amazed that you couldnt feel a difference between those motors, maybe flying much closer to objects and more proximity will bring out the differences. I will have to try a blind test because I am convinced I will get it right 100% of the time the differences are that pronounced.
Curious to see your results
@@Bruno-cb5gk yeah, me too
I'm sure you can feel a difference, all those motors have markedly different full throttle thrust and power. The test is whether motor size and shape matters separately to just the max thrust the motor can make (i.e. 2207 higher KV vs 25mm lower KV with the exact same top end thrust). You can test this as I did using a throttle scale to match the top end of the motors.
Is there going to be an aos 3.5 v2 soon?
Yes, Would love to see your take on a cinewhoop!
Don't know anything about a aos3.5 v2, but I know that there will be a new aos cinewhoop frame.
I just swapped out my 2207 1960kv motors w 2306 1810kv motors...I know it's not a direct comparison but the 2207 motors had to much thrust for my liking and we're way more power hungry. Af227/af236.
Would be interesting to see if you put a throttle limit on the 2207 to match the 2306 if the current draw would compare.
I think you need to do blind tests with only different FCs. Then again with only different ESCs. Then again with only different frames. I think that Its probably hard to find major differences between similar spec hardware.
I don't think blind flight feel testing is very useful in general. Blackbox log analysis is more objective and can definitely determine smaller differences than I can as a pilot. I wouldn't expect FC/ESC to make any difference on flight performance.
@@ChrisRosser yeah for escs it more "are they going to blow-up"
Bigger the kwad (awg) bigger the xam and bigger the motor. Weight/motor is the rule
I've found that Prop/Motor is a better rule to follow. The only reason to use a bigger motor is if you are using a larger prop/steeper pitch prop/more blades. Or if you are at the limit of the motor overheating and need more top end power. A lot of pilots are using huge motors on cinewhoops at the moment when they don't need to. Adding more motor weight to an already heavy build is usually a bad idea.
Sooo... Not much of a difference. Get the velox on sale for $11. Check
Hard to beat the velox for $11
@@ChrisRosser love your videos and Kabobs. I have a 5.5 v2 coming in I want to put a Medline gimbal and the GP bones on and I will continue flying my Glide light for freestyle.