This is absolutely correct. The hands being correctly aligned along with keeping the back shoulder tight to the chin through the swing to me is the most important thing with keeping the bat on a consistent plane through the zone. Explode the hops and keeping the weight back and you got a successful swing.
Great video! Most of the shots of the pros with their elbows up are rearing back to swing. I'm pretty sure some of them start with their elbows down because I'm always pointing that out to my boys when we watch games. When they rear back to swing they automatically raise their elbows to get back as far as they can.
I know this is 3 years old but THIS !!! One is talking about starting STANCE ...the images shown were mostly in the LOAD. Huge difference... starting stance normally comes down to comfort so long as you don't make errors that can affect LOAD!
My cousin got a sponsorship to play in collage baseball and i ask him hitting advice all the time. (I'm 13 almost 14) He tells me that the elbow doesn't matter as much as some of the other things to be focusing on at my age. BECAUSE, when u swing ur back elbow goes down anyways so until u have everything else perfected is when u can start worrying about the little things. But one thing i do when i bat, is hit with elbow up, but if i can't get to the ball in time or on 2 strikes, i put my elbow in/down, that way i am eliminating a step in my swing so i am faster to the ball. Keep in mind, i am 5,3 playing with kids that are 5,11 or 6 foot at 14.
Nah I keep my elbow in. Everyone who keeps it up hits pop flys instead of line drives. As long as you get your hands in fast enough your good you don’t need the elbow up I don’t know why people swear keeping the elbow up 😂
My personal view and it truly worked for me is that it doesn’t matter where the back elbow is before the swing. The back elbow automatically comes up as I started my wing. That’s my personal view and I’ve watched plenty of big leaguers who seem to have the same approach. Mr Gwynn comes to mind. Maybe I’m a freak but I would hear folks saying keep the elbow up so I would watch film. Always came up when I would start the swing.
I took your advice, went back and looked. Not a single one had their knuckles "lined up". Every single one had a "natural" hold which was that the knuckles were offset, the "top" knuckles (of the upper hand) were lined up with the "middle" knuckles of the bottom. A couple of them were even exaggerated (i.e. more towards what you said was "wrong").
Great video, I usually refer to this as door knocking knuckles and yes, way way more consistent on staying on a swinging plane to the baseball. Thanks!
I personally think the elbow should be close to shoulder height. The two biggest issues in my opinion is: 1. if your elbow is too low your don't get enough pull back/power generated in your swing. 2. if your elbow is too high you need to drop your elbow to get it to shoulder height but then player may drop their hands too much. Usually a good rule of thumb is keep your hands/elbow between the height of your shoulder and top of your head and make sure each hitter is comfortable with their own placement. As for the knuckles - most players don't line up perfectly as you described. for example a better description of lining up the knuckles is the bottom hand (left for righty hitter) big knuckles lining up with the top hand (right hand for righty hitter) smaller knuckles. You can see this clearly in the images of Daniel Murphy (Mets #28) and Mark Trumbo (Orioles 45). Picture it as if you were to punch a wall, the spot that would make contact with the wall - between the big and smaller knuckles should line up with both hands.
If you ever question the elbow position try to do this: Using only 1 hand the back hand: Video in slow motion 1) Put a ball on the Tee and try to hit the ball cleanly and consistently with the elbow in the down position or anything other than up. Video tape it in slow motion. 2) Elbow up 90 degrees or less, and do the same thing. The video will show proof of what is best. I am willing to wager a bet that the elbow up will prove the more consistent, basing it on the fact it moves with hips. If the arms lag behind it is because the hips and body have moved without moving the arms meaning they arms. Meaning any power created, is done so by the arms! Bent arms will absorb the ball impact, where the back arm at close to 90 degrees will transfer the energy to the ball. We all know that unless you are 6'3 or bigger the bat barrel speed generated by arms alone will not be enough to make an impact on a large field. Difference between homerun power and warning track power. Jose Altuve is a prime example. When he starts his swing the elbow rises into position based on hand placement, and loading. His hips and hands come through the zone together a lagging bat losses speed and power!
Back elbow up is just an acceleration enhancer. The further the elbow travels the more acceleration it can build. It's also tension like a rubber band. Further back the rubber band is pulled the more tension and acceleration is built.
The other issue I take is the bat plane hopping over the ball. This only occurs if your top hand rolls too early. And if your top hand rolls over before contact, you aren’t in the optimal position at contact no matter how you gripped the bat. Top hand should always be palm up at contact.
A lot of batters will raise their back elbow as a necessary part of 'loading' prior to a swing (moving the hands back slightly prior to exploding forward to strike the ball). Which is the instant your still pictures show. Not many will stand there through entire pitch like that.
I’m an advocate of aligning the knuckles too. I always thought it made the top hand much better. I’ve seen a problem with some young players taking the high back elbow to an extreme - they hold their hands too high, as high as the top of their head. I think that contributes to a big loopy swing. Regardless of where the elbow is, I don’t think the hands should be higher than about chin level. If the hands are too low, that’s a problem too.
Coach,I have been saying this exact same thing for years, but I only work with my 10 year old's team after work. It is nice to hear you preach the knuckles. If there is one thing I tell these kids the last couple of years is line your knuckles up. I grew up in baseball and this is natural for me. but elbow up messes with grip and that is what we have to overcome. This video is verbatim of what I was looking to get confirmation on. I know now it is ok if hitters put elbow up, but it can't change the knuckles. Thanks!!!!
What I teach is, even if you start with the elbow up, it has to come down as you swing. The reason some guys start with the elbow up is to help with the exta wrist snap at the end
The main reason coaches started trying to move the elbow down was it’s where the elbows goes once the swing starts. You literally cannot swing the bat with your elbow up. In fact if you look at nearly every quality swing, the first thing that happens is the elbow drops, By starting with the elbow down, you eliminate one movement in the swing, namely the elbow dropping into the slot. But by doing so you also remove some on the momentum you gather by this, thereby taking away some power. . If you keep the elbow up, you generate more power but this takes a bit more time to execute. If you hit with the elbow down you promote a more “handsy” swing. Not as powerful but quicker. I prefer to teach elbow down to start. This engages the hands more. Then as I move along with a hitter, we work on the elbow a little more. But if I can get the hands to so most of the work, I’m going to see better results. The hands provide the fine motor coordination imperative to good hitting. The elbow can provide more power when engaged properly. Paul Molitor hit with his elbow down and had as good a hands swing as you’ll ever see. I sort of like to use his approach as a template and work from there. But the point about the grip is mostly correct. It does effect the swing plane and velo. But I prefer the box grip to the door knocking knuckles alignment.
Lifting the back elbow is only part of the equation. You can’t lift the back elbow unless you lower the front elbow. Both elbows need to maintain the same relationship to each other as if they were connected by a pipe or stick about chest width. If you lift the rear, the front has to move down closer to the chest and back too. The idea of raising the back elbow is to keep kids from dragging the bat instead of pushing it. Kids notoriously swing around the ball with the elbow instead of through it. The back elbow has to act more like it’s throwing a straight jab rather than hook. That is the purpose of a raised back elbow.
The hitters shown from the 1:08 mark til the 1:30 mark are elite hitters with unbelievable ability, bat speed, hand eye coordination etc.... There's no way I'm teaching a 12 year old to hit (or at least start his swing) like Jose Bautista. If I had one of my players stand in the batters box like 1:23 the baseball would be in the catchers mitt by the time he was done swinging.... I Basically teach the kids to start with a comfortable stance, back elbow slightly down and lead with the knob of the bat to the zone (path of the baseball) then follow by driving the bat head through the hitting zone with a high finish......
always kept my elbows in the "A" form(elbow down). with my "knockin knuckles" in line. for the most part I copied Pudge's stance. I feel like different batters feel more comfortable in different ways. to each their own. I always hit good my way(kept my batting average around .325 throughout my time playing Semi Pro), but my Buddy who plays in the minor leagues and is an excellent batter has his elbow up!
Add Bryce Harper...Good golf reference. Players like Dustin Johnson turn the left hand down, fist pointing to the ground, which effectively shuts the clubface, decreasing loft, and increasing distance. Lining the knock-knock knuckles up allows for a fade, but these players want distance, hence the "stronger" grip. Baseball is different. All these frame by frame shots of the swing, in both golf and baseball diminish two huge facts: the swing is a dynamic motion, not static. It's like music, which is broken down to not just the note, and timing of the note, but the coordination of that to that of an number of other instruments. Fact 2: unlike golf the baseball is MOVING with its own set of dynamics. Great hitters somehow manage to see the pitch, calculate the dynamics of its movement, and then swing the bat, dropping the barrel on the ball (squaring up the round barrel on the round ball). High hands, high step, flapping elbow, two fingers off the knob, wide stance, closed, open - they All work for the right player. So what next? Teach kids how to work a count, swing at good pitches, hit it where it's pitched, spoil out pitches, etc. that's what I see is really missing. 1 for 5 is Mendoza, 2 for 5 is Teddy Ballgame.
I have trained maybe 300 hitters tops, of those more than 60 were drafted/signed, 7 first rounders. Does not matter if they are 8 or 18, I train them to play pro ball. Power gets you contracts and scholarships. First thing I get rid of are lined up knuckles, along with back elbow down, swing down, no stride-early stride etc, or any 'Make Contact-Put it In Play-Don't Strike Out Mentality' that will just add them to the list of a 10's of thousands of .400 high school hitters each year with no scholarship and no contract. Every college will have a hundred plus walk-ons each year, all slappy clones that lead their high school team in hitting, of which they might keep one...A FREE BALLPLAYER.
I can see why they tell the kids elbow up. I was one of those coaches were I preach elbow up and then at the same time keep knuckles in a straight line and it just was so confusing for 9 and 10 years old, they had an awkward swing. What I learn is and work better even with my 6 year old son is as long they have the knuckles line up and are comfortable swinging the bat. As long they learn how to load and swing eventually the elbow will come up. I know 99% percent of the MLB players today bat with the elbow up but their are players like Anthony Rizzo of Cubs, The Famous Babe Ruth batted with elbow down.
Coach, your hands are in a different position at your chest than at your back ear. When we load, or even at a young age we tell kids to hold their hands by their ear, look at the position of your small knuckles when your hands are elevated at the ear. Much more comfortable position at the ear. Don't leave that part out... You have 2 positions prior to delivery of the ball. Hit ready, pitch ready. At pitch ready, hands are elevated close to ear, and that's the position that is most comfortable with small knuckles being lined up, which is most similar to keeping palm up/palm down at impact.
The ultimate goal of every hitter is to make contact through a consistent approach every time you get to the plate. Elbows down is the natural position when holding a bat. It is the position that all hitters will take no matter how you position your elbow, (If it feels good you can have your back elbow pointed to sun!!!). I'm a knuckle alignment guy as opposed to a boxed grip. How you start as a hitter is not necessarily how you will finish, and your approach/mechanics at the plate will change over time if needed. Posting pictures of abnormally large human beings isn't validation of an approach to hitting. Contact first, contact only.
I always tell my kids to remember the best hitting position is palm over palm...Tony Gywnn preached this really hard. Once they are in that perfect hitting position, I ask them to slowly bring the bat back to the launch position and let them feel where their hands are moving. I then direct them to lift that back elbow as far as they can comfortably... provided their hands do not get too far out of whack. I have them repeat that motion until it becomes a memory. On occasion, I have encouraged hitters to adjust the bat angle with that lead hand to make it more comfortable on their hands. In unison, I can get them close to that "Elbow up" feeling they want from watching the pro's, to the hand over hand position of the perfect hitting position. What do you all think?
Its just like the "squish the bug" thing with the back foot and rotating your hips. Focus more on hitting the baseball, rather than all these other movements.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! Lots of great perspectives! As I stated in the video, there is never one universal way to do anything in baseball. Elbow up, elbow down ... find what works best for the individual player and maximize their own unique set of strengths. Best of luck to all of you and thanks again! - Coach McCreary
I deal with this all the time as a coach for 9-11 years olds and with thier parents. I tell my kids to put your elbows where it's comfortable and line up the knuckles (Box Grip), not the knocking knuckles. It's all about being comfortable in the box and not some contortionist pose and elbows up in most cases is not comfortable when I ask my players.
I was an above .500 hitter in high school varsity and I always keep my back elbow up. Today I coach my kids the same hitting style, both of my boys are the best hitter in their little league group.
Hands are still above the elbow in your example photos. I tell my kids to get their hands back behind the ear and get the elbow up to a cpmfortable position.
Hey Coach, I’m a player for Towamencin Baseball and I was just wonder if I should add the back elbow up in my swing and also when ever I try to add a little bit more power, should I have a little bit more trouble keeping my eye on the ball. Should I just take time to ease the back elbow into my swing or should I gradually add it into my swing?
Raising the elbow really isn't necessary. You can give it a try and see if it feels comfortable and if it produces results. Power usually comes from using your lower half more so if you are interested in getting more power, focus on your lower half. Good luck this year!
Most kids are not going to understand how to work there elbows back down as the pitcher delivers the ball. They'll load into a bat rap and take the pitch with their bat pointed at the pitcher instead of working back towards the ball as the pitch is being delivered.
In reality, probably very few. The problem is when young kids get them WAY out of alignment. "Lining knuckles up" is just a starting point. Most, including me when I played, move to something that better suits their needs. As I said, one size does not fit all.
Elbow up allows short compact swing and shouldn’t be taught first thing knuckles ligned properly not tight hard grip too hand allowing palm up while rotating triangle staying bent allowing player to power through the ball and not straightening out until after contact and rotation
Coach, I think you are confusing when the back elbow comes up - is it in the stance or as a result of the counter-rotational movement (load), loading the scap. Check where those hitters, whose pictures you showed, to see where their back elbow is in the stance and compare it to where it is in the so-called load. That may clear things up. Also, check the grips of the players you showed to see their grips.
I agree Joseph. My point in the video was to address the dad/coach says a batter MUST keep his elbow up in the stance and the dad/coach who says a batter must NEVER keep his elbow up. As you implied, there is more to it than that. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Bob McCreary A batter must not keep his elbow up but it winds up going up as part of the scap load, which is a contributing factor in separating the upper and lower halves, resisting the opening of the front hip. Thanks for the response. Some guys on here don't answer back when their viewpoint is challenged.
Bob McCreary So, what's the answer - up or down? It's up as the hitters you showed in your video demonstrate. I think the problem is not with the grip, though I'm not a fan of lining up the knock knuckles, but how the front forearm is positioned. If you position the front forearm more parallel to the ground it will be easier to keep the elbow up in the stance. And, keeping it up and relaxed in the stance is a good idea since the back elbow goes up in the scap load as part of the counter-rotational movement. You can't counter-rotate with both elbows down or with both elbows down. Happy New Year but it would be happier if your hitters learn these key movements.
Joseph Yurko I think it depends on the hitter himself for example one don't raise his back elbow and the other don't and yet they have the same batting average the also their grips are different as well but also I think raising the elbow helps cause some hitters that don't raise their elbow will still raise their elbow as they proceed to swing then they would be swinging too late while the one who raise their elbows will swing at the right time cause they already got the momentum to hit it hard
best for little leaguer's to start with knuckles lined up, just like Aaron Judge. A lot of MLB players line up the first part of the fingers or box as mentioned below. Go past this and you get a hammer grip where the top hand is too strong changing the swing plane to a dip or V making it more difficult to make contact and extremely difficult to hit a curve ball which ends most High School hitters playing time. Kids tend to migrate to this 'hammer grip" as they age up , 14 or so, as the grip feels stronger while holding the bat up pre-swing. Then they chop at the ball and at impact the top hand is very weak in addition to causing the bat to swing down at the ball rather than on plane and level. HS Coaches should check this often as it is one reason hitters go into a slump - even some MLB hitters drift into a hammer grip and slump.
You are right.. i found some pictures of him in a box.. But he aligns the knuckles, and because of this he has very loose bat grip... I would not use this as an example, as most players 6'2 and under will not be able gain enough bat head speed to do the same thing.
yes his grip is very loose at the top/beginning but seems to be knocker knuckles at impact which in golf grip terms is very strong putting the palm behind the bat instead of finger crease at impact. For players under 12 the knocker knuckles appears essential.
7:25 i have multiply problems with what u are saying. LOOK AT UR SWING. U had no hip action at all. If u turned ur hips ur bad is right at the ball. When u swung u literally moved ur hands over the ball. No shit u can't hit the ball because even if u did u had not hip action. Try swing with hip action and u will have a much easier time.
doesn't this compare to a take away in a golf swing....the power comes from the coil motion of your hips and shoulders then in order to keep the lag you bring the club inside which pulls your right elbow in (right handers)....which means your elbow was up.....i guess the verdict is yes your elbow will be up but don't artificially put your elbow up. Then again i suck at both sports so what do i know
Okay, so the myth being perpetuated is the lining up of the knuckles. Go back to the pictures you used earlier for your illustration and you will notice Mike Trout uses a box grip where the big knuckles are lined up with the little knuckles on the hands and his elbow is up, or back as we say. Others are anywhere from lined up with most being somewhere in the middle and their elbows are up as they fall into the universal Launch position. The way you demonstrate here is a misrepresentation to prove your point. As you stand with your elbow up you show your front and back shoulder level, which they are not at the universal Launch position/front heel plant. You are being somewhat disingenuous here by rotating your hands they way you do and keeping your barrels almost vertical. I can hold my bat with knocking knuckles lined up, raise or elevate my back elbow which then tilts my front shoulder down and be in a much better position at Launch than what you are demonstrating. Now, elbow high, medium or low in your stance is more of a style preference and has nothing to do with technique, or mechanics.
Thank for watching and commenting! As I said early on, there are no universals whether it be "keeping the elbow up" or "lining up the knuckles." You are correct ... keeping your elbow high, medium, or low is more of a preference and not mandatory. That proves my point. There are no universals. Best of luck and thanks again for taking the time to comment.
Holding the bat in your fingers instead of the palms and keeping the knuckles aligned allows you to explode the bat through the zone and not roll your wrist until the follow through. It is completely true
Not only that, but if the bat is held deep in the palms (like many kids improperly do) instead of holding it more out on the fingers (the proper method), it tends to lock the wrists during the swing and it takes away that "snap" a batter gets that accelerates the batter during the swing. Basically, by holding the bat in the palm, it turns the bat into a sluggish "club" instead of an agile "whip". Coach McCreary's point is well taken. Whenever I see a player doing something "wrong", whether it be a batter, pitcher or fielder - I always focus on the "end state". For instance, no matter how unusual a batter's stance may be ... the pitcher's wind-up may be ... or the fielder's ready position may be ... I always ask, "When the critical moment occurs, is their body ready and optimized to be successful?" Does anybody remember Craig Counsell's batting stance? (He's now the manager of the Milwaukee Brewers) That batting stance is crazy! Yet, if you've ever seen Counsell actually swing at a pitch (particularly in slow motion), one can see that he actually gets all his body parts in the same position as all batters with more conventional stances. In other words, Counsell's "end state" is optimized - although, at first glance, it doesn't seem that would be possible. ua-cam.com/video/2wEaKUslLAw/v-deo.html
Not true! A batter with a loose grip "fingertips" will loose energy transfer from the bat. A batter properly gripping the bat and loaded properly, will transfer bat energy without rotating their wrist's or rolling over. Slow explosion is related to poor timing meaning hands and hips are opening up out of sync! Rotation of both should happen simultaneously, or as close as possible. Just remember not to flex the arm muscles, as the only muscles you want flexed are the forearms!
Okay so im varsity baseball but my batting is not and that is because i have picked up a habbit of having a really wide swing my friend has me go against a wall and keep my swing in but is there anything else i can do?
Thanks for the question. Fence drills are fine if they are done right. The drill in this video might help too. ua-cam.com/video/OOGopocGWqA/v-deo.html Good luck!
Bob's video below is a good one. The "Swing in" that you seek comes down to your hands staying closer to your body as you swing. The closer you hold something to the center of your body the lighter it feels and the faster you can swing it. The same is true with your hands and the bat they hold. Think about what you would have to do to snap a belt or a rolled up towel at a pitched ball if you were holding it like a bat with 2 hands. You wouldn't cast your hands in front of you towards the plate then bring them forward to swing the belt because you would lose the snapping effect. You would start the swing of the belt with your hands moving towards the ball and let the belt catch up to create the snap. Now think about creating that same snapping sensation with a bat in your hand. The knob of the bat (led by your hands) goes towards the ball (not the plate) as you start your swing then the barrel drops in with snapping momentum. In comparison when you cast your hands towards plate like you do now it feels like you're pulling the bat like a limp belt through the zone slowly. Every drill mentioned here in the replies is to get you to redirect your hands from casting them towards the plate to leading the them towards the ball during the start of your swing. I hope that makes sense.
I bet you cannot find one MLB player that lines his knuckles up, I bet if hundred players pick a bat up naturally what feels comfortable they will not line their knuckles up
Brian Zeiger You are correct. “Lining up the knuckles” is more of a guideline or starting point and not a hard rule. Same with “stay on top of the ball” or “reach out front” when you pitch. They are exaggerated sayings meant to keep young players from doing the opposite extreme. Thanks for commenting
This is a straw dog... the pictures tell only half the story... the real story is that the pro's and all good hitters keep the distance between their elbows nearly the same up to, even thru, contact. Your swing is flawed (@6:36-6:41). The elbows are pinching together; the lead arm straightening too early. Results: bat drag, lack of power, flat or descending bat head path causing grounders and pop ups... even worse... strike outs b/c your bat path is descending... not ascending. People, watch the best hitters in the world on video and you'll see their lead arm stays bent (it's all about the shoulders turning), the back arm forms the power L and the bat is on an upward path thru the hitting zone (positive launch angle... line drives and home runs). You're showing the old school Charlie Lau swing which manifested itself in the 60's and pretty much went to the trash heap by the 80's.
Good insights, but some wrong inferences and poor logic (which abounds in coaching everywhere). 1. You provide examples of "top hitting" pros with their elbows up. This is faulty logic because there are also great pros with low elbows. 2. You provide examples of "top hitting" pros with their elbows up. This is faulty logic because it assumes that kids and pros have the same toolset. Pros are outliers. Those with high elbows are also strong enough to create velocity at the bat head. Kids are still getting strong. A flatter bat and low-angle elbow is a quick bat, and the stretch reflex needed for power can still be achieved through hip separation. This stuff about knuckles and alignment is sort of a distraction. You can pick up a bat right now and arrange your grip ten different ways regardless of elbow height and get ten different alignments. The bigger problem that is NOT being addressed here is the grip on the bat -- this is a hugely overlooked aspect to hitting that is as important as the grip in golf. No one talks about grip, and it is the biggest untapped aspect. I'm not talking about knuckle alignment, which is a poor swing cue and teaching cue. I'm talking about the angle of the bat in the palm, the grip intensity, the depth of the bat handle in the grip, and even differences between the top and bottom hands on the handle. Adjusting these can have a huge impact on translation hand-eye coordination to the barrel. The best hitters in the world have come to the adjustments through trial and error, but it also should be addressed in coaching. Hitting the ball is the result of a chain of events that has little to do with where the elbow is, and almost everything to do with the level of coordination executed on the bat head. If a kid with a high elbow and tall bat cannot drop the bat and elbow in time to react, emulating a pro who can do so is useless. If a kid's kinetic chain is best connected to the barrel by a low elbow and flat bat, that kid has a greater chance of hitting a ball. End of story. Tell a kid to whack the snot out of a dot painted on a heavy/punching bag with an axe handle. That will tell you EVERYTHING about where his or her power is relative to the height of his/her elbow, and it will tell you a lot about how that kid holds something to hit something else. You will also see very few "high elbows" because a high elbow disengages the lat-hip chain. You won't see lumberjacks generating power with a high elbow. The biggest problem in all of swing coaching is teaching details that are the result of something else. Having a kid think about knuckle alignment is comically distracting. The fastest way to make great strides in a swing is to teach it with fewer words and technical details and more kinetic feedback. FEEL. Sports is just filled with good intentions, but the best coaching remains as rare and elusive as athletic talent itself.
*yawn* That's a tired reply, buddy. Real tired. Yet another failure of logic and critical thinking. Do you ask restaurant reviewers for recipes? Do you ask movie critics what movies they've directed? And who is "us"? You have voices in your head? Join the adult world and stop with the cliches.
Their is a too low in my opinion. When analyzing video of my HS girls doing tee work, I tend to see more initial swing issues with girls that start with low rear elbows. The biggest being they will collapse their hitting box leading their hand with the elbow and dragging their bat thru the hitting zone instead of lagging the bat thru the zone. The other big elbow issue I see is kids baring their front elbow (straight arm) before ever making contact with the ball which results in lots of weak ground and fly balls. Keeping a strong hitters box to the ball is essential. Elbows play a huge roll in maintaining that hitters box and a powerful swing. You will always have someone that has swing flaws and can still hit the ball pretty good, but proper mechanics is essential to hitting the ball consistently hard for the vast majority of hitters. Little kids are different as they are just learning the game and can only handle 1 or 2 things to do properly at a time. Little steps make long term progress. Grip is also important. Over rotation of the hands and a weak grip being the 2 biggest issues. I like to see a cup in each wrist when they have a proper grip. I totally agree with feeling the swing. All my check points during tee work with my girls have a feeling associate with each aspect. When you feel the proper way over and over during tee work, after awhile you don't have to think about what to do, it's just ends up becoming how you do it every time.
I coached D1 select 13-15 year olds. We went 45-3. Using this technique. Elbow up is great for big power hitters. Most kids are not home run hitters. And never will be. They need quick bat. Which is what you're talking about. Make contact. Make them throw you out. It works. Elbow up old school dad's who never coached unitl their son played is what you're dealing with in comments. Ignore them. They won't prove you wrong. But they will childishly insult you for having a differnet veiw then what is the norm. Quick bat brings up averages in an alarming way .swinging for the fences. Is a joke. They strike out more than they hit home runs..good comment.
Your example of putting the elbow up is deeply flawed Not to mention your example of roll over. First, The elbow should be raised into position as the batter is loading. Not before, as you will see this with every major league batter, minus Hunter Pence and a couple of others. Pence, and a couple of other pro players drop or raise their hands before they swing. Meaning their elbows are at 45 degrees from each other or in the "A" position with tips down, and the bat barrel is likely down (ie the loop in the bat head!) Loading: Loading is when you move the weight back. This should happen when the hands go back, when the hands are pushed back by the front arm, the elbow either goes up to a 90 degree position or tucks near the body. If the elbow tucks to the body it creates timing issues through extra motion. Tucked elbow Issues: Dropped hands, high hands, dipping of the shoulder, and striding to make up for low bat speed. - Dropped hands: Creates a loop in the swing: Creates strike zone issues and makes the player vulnerable to pitches away aswell as up. So he/she better hope all pitches are middle in. The bat does not stay on the same plain as the ball long enough. Makes for inconsistent ball contact, pop ups, and lots of strike outs. - High hands: Any pitch low becomes an issue, and the bat becomes more like an ax causing the batter to hack at pitches that are low. As scene by HOTZONE graph of hunterpence. Or it creates a golf swing! Many issues with a ball moving and a golf swing approach, the curve ball is devastating! Shoulder dipping is an obvious issue for all! Slow bat speed sign of a front foot hitter, and weak forearms very few front foot power hitters make it pro! "ie... Bryce Harper" Not to mention front foot hitters are slap hitters! Trouble with hard throwing pitchers, and pitches away. Two hands on a bat after contact, is a bad example of roll over! Roll over is related to a pull hitters, attempting to pull an outside pitch, or a dipped shoulder of a player trying to get under the ball. Middle knuckles aligned are "okay" for players that have no upper body mass. So this should not be a rule of thumb. Wider players do not/cannot align middle knuckles when loaded! But if they were to align it would be the first knuckle of the top hand with the second/middle knuckle of he bottom hand. In my opinion, wrist angle to elbow angle is more important to teach. A bent or flexed wrist will cause 95% of the batter issues. Put a batter in is loaded position and fix the wrist's. Bent or flexed wrist cause many bad habits, 1 of them is the bat barrel dropping over the shoulder of the hitter as he starts his swing. This creates a loop in the swing and forces the batter to drop is shoulder and turning his elbow in and under prematurely. Thus, the reason to teach hitters to raise there elbow when they load! Easiest way to teach: 1) Put the batter in is pre-loaded stance (before the pitcher comes set) with the bat rested on his shoulder. 2) Tell him to grip the bat tight.(do not have him flex his harms, just grip which deals with forearms.) This will force the bat to raise up off his shoulder, putting his wrists in a 90 degree 3) With the bat gripped tight, have them push the lower hand back no further than the back shoulder depending on there arm length. This will force them to load by pushing their weight back over the back leg. This part is key: Wherever, the elbow ends up is where it should be! Just remember the front arm should not be straight, or lower hand should not be any further back than they back shoulder. I am willing to be that if you follow this the properly, the back elbow will rise to the proper position. Thus, placing the bat barrel close to 90 degrees, but it is properly placed based on bat grip. The bat barrel should never be laid back over the shoulder when the swing starts! I say again never! Loopy swing creates big holes!
I haved always believed in balanced approach in hitting a basaball.by that i mean SWITCH HITTING.AS. TED WILLIAMS SHOWS IN BOOK ON HITTING. IF YOU. HIT. 250 RIGHTHANDED VS RIGHT HANDED PITCHER.THEN YOu shoud be able to 325. Vs lefty .that the. Hitter gains 30% advantage. You can teach. A hitter to switch and bat right? Getting i found point of rhythm and relaxation in hitting an approach. That begins ala pete rose .wide closed stance .a flat. Swing. Timing his practice swings .and then set to hit. A varied the stance by moving from that position WHEN THE PITCHER HAS GOTTEN THE Point of ARM BACKED COCKED .SEE BALL.JUST BEFORE THE DRIVE ANDDELIVERY.TO MOVING MY BACK FOOT FORWARD.THE BACK ARM LEFT.COMES WITH THE BY USING Right or front arm. To an upright stance .bat cocked to 1 oclock or. More for power .relying on quickness of both hands AND FEET. ADJUSTING FEET OF SPEED AWAY.OR OPENING FRONT FOOT SHOULDER HIP.TODRIVE IN SIDE PITCH . WHAT DO YOU THINK.OF THIS. APPROach.J.P.
William Durazo they try to make Everything too technical. There's the fundamental. Then you have the people who don't even play the game trying to make things complicating
Just hit the ball is like telling a pitcher that isn't throwing strikes to just throw strikes. What is wrong with teaching kids the proper mechanics to be a consistent hitter that hits the ball hard? The hardest thing in sports is to hit a small ball coming at you at various speeds, dropping while it's moving, with a bat that is just bigger than the ball and you have to swing it from behind you and get it on the same path as the ball. Swing with bad mechanics and over time it's easy to get discouraged on why you can't hit good and others can. Teach them how to hit properly, throw properly. catch properly, run properly and I guarantee you will have a more satisfied player and parents.
You forget that someone had to coach and teach these pros at one time. Even though these coaches are not playing the game at a professional level they know the game. They know technique. They know how to correct . Telling a kid "Just hit the Ball" will not promote the proper skill that some players seek.
I know this to be true because a kid that played baseball in my league when I was younger was mediocre at best and that was at everything: Hitting, throwing running. But then he started taking batting lessons and every time he hit the ball it was a hard line drive over second base. At least most of the time. But his throwing and speed and everything else just stayed mediocre.
I totally disagree with lining the knuckles up, it is extremely uncomfortable and I hit fine without doing it, I would only average 3 strikeouts a year and batted well over .300! If anything I think it zaps you’re power away
This is absolutely correct. The hands being correctly aligned along with keeping the back shoulder tight to the chin through the swing to me is the most important thing with keeping the bat on a consistent plane through the zone. Explode the hops and keeping the weight back and you got a successful swing.
Great video! Most of the shots of the pros with their elbows up are rearing back to swing. I'm pretty sure some of them start with their elbows down because I'm always pointing that out to my boys when we watch games. When they rear back to swing they automatically raise their elbows to get back as far as they can.
I know this is 3 years old but THIS !!! One is talking about starting STANCE ...the images shown were mostly in the LOAD. Huge difference... starting stance normally comes down to comfort so long as you don't make errors that can affect LOAD!
My cousin got a sponsorship to play in collage baseball and i ask him hitting advice all the time. (I'm 13 almost 14) He tells me that the elbow doesn't matter as much as some of the other things to be focusing on at my age. BECAUSE, when u swing ur back elbow goes down anyways so until u have everything else perfected is when u can start worrying about the little things. But one thing i do when i bat, is hit with elbow up, but if i can't get to the ball in time or on 2 strikes, i put my elbow in/down, that way i am eliminating a step in my swing so i am faster to the ball. Keep in mind, i am 5,3 playing with kids that are 5,11 or 6 foot at 14.
Nah I keep my elbow in. Everyone who keeps it up hits pop flys instead of line drives. As long as you get your hands in fast enough your good you don’t need the elbow up I don’t know why people swear keeping the elbow up 😂
My personal view and it truly worked for me is that it doesn’t matter where the back elbow is before the swing. The back elbow automatically comes up as I started my wing. That’s my personal view and I’ve watched plenty of big leaguers who seem to have the same approach. Mr Gwynn comes to mind. Maybe I’m a freak but I would hear folks saying keep the elbow up so I would watch film. Always came up when I would start the swing.
I have it too is it bad?
I took your advice, went back and looked. Not a single one had their knuckles "lined up". Every single one had a "natural" hold which was that the knuckles were offset, the "top" knuckles (of the upper hand) were lined up with the "middle" knuckles of the bottom. A couple of them were even exaggerated (i.e. more towards what you said was "wrong").
Great video, I usually refer to this as door knocking knuckles and yes, way way more consistent on staying on a swinging plane to the baseball. Thanks!
Back elbow is intended to force the front shoulder to be in a rotated down position at touch touch>heel plant. Intended to increase torque.
This is some great stuff! Thanks coach
Thanks Coach, learned something today that I can pass to my team.
I personally think the elbow should be close to shoulder height. The two biggest issues in my opinion is:
1. if your elbow is too low your don't get enough pull back/power generated in your swing.
2. if your elbow is too high you need to drop your elbow to get it to shoulder height but then player may drop their hands too much.
Usually a good rule of thumb is keep your hands/elbow between the height of your shoulder and top of your head and make sure each hitter is comfortable with their own placement.
As for the knuckles - most players don't line up perfectly as you described. for example a better description of lining up the knuckles is the bottom hand (left for righty hitter) big knuckles lining up with the top hand (right hand for righty hitter) smaller knuckles. You can see this clearly in the images of Daniel Murphy (Mets #28) and Mark Trumbo (Orioles 45).
Picture it as if you were to punch a wall, the spot that would make contact with the wall - between the big and smaller knuckles should line up with both hands.
If you ever question the elbow position try to do this:
Using only 1 hand the back hand: Video in slow motion
1) Put a ball on the Tee and try to hit the ball cleanly and consistently with the elbow in the down position or anything other than up. Video tape it in slow motion.
2) Elbow up 90 degrees or less, and do the same thing.
The video will show proof of what is best. I am willing to wager a bet that the elbow up will prove the more consistent, basing it on the fact it moves with hips. If the arms lag behind it is because the hips and body have moved without moving the arms meaning they arms. Meaning any power created, is done so by the arms! Bent arms will absorb the ball impact, where the back arm at close to 90 degrees will transfer the energy to the ball.
We all know that unless you are 6'3 or bigger the bat barrel speed generated by arms alone will not be enough to make an impact on a large field. Difference between homerun power and warning track power. Jose Altuve is a prime example. When he starts his swing the elbow rises into position based on hand placement, and loading. His hips and hands come through the zone together a lagging bat losses speed and power!
Back elbow up is just an acceleration enhancer. The further the elbow travels the more acceleration it can build. It's also tension like a rubber band. Further back the rubber band is pulled the more tension and acceleration is built.
Ian Baxley yes there is more power with the elbow up but it's about what makes the hitter feel comfortable
The other issue I take is the bat plane hopping over the ball. This only occurs if your top hand rolls too early. And if your top hand rolls over before contact, you aren’t in the optimal position at contact no matter how you gripped the bat. Top hand should always be palm up at contact.
I always used the elbow up with kids that were dipping their shoulder and uppercutting.
A lot of batters will raise their back elbow as a necessary part of 'loading' prior to a swing (moving the hands back slightly prior to exploding forward to strike the ball). Which is the instant your still pictures show. Not many will stand there through entire pitch like that.
The bat heads of all those players were pointing at the pitcher. That's where I thought he was going with it
excellent info
Couldn't agree more coach
I’m an advocate of aligning the knuckles too. I always thought it made the top hand much better. I’ve seen a problem with some young players taking the high back elbow to an extreme - they hold their hands too high, as high as the top of their head. I think that contributes to a big loopy swing. Regardless of where the elbow is, I don’t think the hands should be higher than about chin level. If the hands are too low, that’s a problem too.
Coach,I have been saying this exact same thing for years, but I only work with my 10 year old's team after work. It is nice to hear you preach the knuckles. If there is one thing I tell these kids the last couple of years is line your knuckles up. I grew up in baseball and this is natural for me. but elbow up messes with grip and that is what we have to overcome. This video is verbatim of what I was looking to get confirmation on. I know now it is ok if hitters put elbow up, but it can't change the knuckles. Thanks!!!!
Myth
Thank you coach!!!!!!!!
What I teach is, even if you start with the elbow up, it has to come down as you swing. The reason some guys start with the elbow up is to help with the exta wrist snap at the end
This is 10000% correct. This is why for kids without a ton of strength especially a high back elbow leads to only a longer (slower) swing path.
Thank You
Been noticing Alex Bregman doesnt line up the knuckles
Thanks that was helpful to pass on to the kids
Great Video. Thanks
Line up the knuckles, preload the wrists/scapula, elbow up, mash.
The main reason coaches started trying to move the elbow down was it’s where the elbows goes once the swing starts. You literally cannot swing the bat with your elbow up. In fact if you look at nearly every quality swing, the first thing that happens is the elbow drops, By starting with the elbow down, you eliminate one movement in the swing, namely the elbow dropping into the slot. But by doing so you also remove some on the momentum you gather by this, thereby taking away some power.
. If you keep the elbow up, you generate more power but this takes a bit more time to execute. If you hit with the elbow down you promote a more “handsy” swing. Not as powerful but quicker.
I prefer to teach elbow down to start. This engages the hands more. Then as I move along with a hitter, we work on the elbow a little more. But if I can get the hands to so most of the work, I’m going to see better results. The hands provide the fine motor coordination imperative to good hitting. The elbow can provide more power when engaged properly.
Paul Molitor hit with his elbow down and had as good a hands swing as you’ll ever see. I sort of like to use his approach as a template and work from there.
But the point about the grip is mostly correct. It does effect the swing plane and velo. But I prefer the box grip to the door knocking knuckles alignment.
I see the back elbow up as a tool so the swing leads with the hands and not the back elbow. The main advantage is reducing bat drag.
Lifting the back elbow is only part of the equation. You can’t lift the back elbow unless you lower the front elbow. Both elbows need to maintain the same relationship to each other as if they were connected by a pipe or stick about chest width. If you lift the rear, the front has to move down closer to the chest and back too. The idea of raising the back elbow is to keep kids from dragging the bat instead of pushing it. Kids notoriously swing around the ball with the elbow instead of through it. The back elbow has to act more like it’s throwing a straight jab rather than hook. That is the purpose of a raised back elbow.
The hitters shown from the 1:08 mark til the 1:30 mark are elite hitters with unbelievable ability, bat speed, hand eye coordination etc.... There's no way I'm teaching a 12 year old to hit (or at least start his swing) like Jose Bautista. If I had one of my players stand in the batters box like 1:23 the baseball would be in the catchers mitt by the time he was done swinging.... I Basically teach the kids to start with a comfortable stance, back elbow slightly down and lead with the knob of the bat to the zone (path of the baseball) then follow by driving the bat head through the hitting zone with a high finish......
always kept my elbows in the "A" form(elbow down). with my "knockin knuckles" in line. for the most part I copied Pudge's stance. I feel like different batters feel more comfortable in different ways. to each their own. I always hit good my way(kept my batting average around .325 throughout my time playing Semi Pro), but my Buddy who plays in the minor leagues and is an excellent batter has his elbow up!
Add Bryce Harper...Good golf reference. Players like Dustin Johnson turn the left hand down, fist pointing to the ground, which effectively shuts the clubface, decreasing loft, and increasing distance. Lining the knock-knock knuckles up allows for a fade, but these players want distance, hence the "stronger" grip. Baseball is different. All these frame by frame shots of the swing, in both golf and baseball diminish two huge facts: the swing is a dynamic motion, not static. It's like music, which is broken down to not just the note, and timing of the note, but the coordination of that to that of an number of other instruments. Fact 2: unlike golf the baseball is MOVING with its own set of dynamics. Great hitters somehow manage to see the pitch, calculate the dynamics of its movement, and then swing the bat, dropping the barrel on the ball (squaring up the round barrel on the round ball). High hands, high step, flapping elbow, two fingers off the knob, wide stance, closed, open - they All work for the right player. So what next? Teach kids how to work a count, swing at good pitches, hit it where it's pitched, spoil out pitches, etc. that's what I see is really missing. 1 for 5 is Mendoza, 2 for 5 is Teddy Ballgame.
I have trained maybe 300 hitters tops, of those more than 60 were drafted/signed, 7 first rounders. Does not matter if they are 8 or 18, I train them to play pro ball. Power gets you contracts and scholarships. First thing I get rid of are lined up knuckles, along with back elbow down, swing down, no stride-early stride etc, or any 'Make Contact-Put it In Play-Don't Strike Out Mentality' that will just add them to the list of a 10's of thousands of .400 high school hitters each year with no scholarship and no contract. Every college will have a hundred plus walk-ons each year, all slappy clones that lead their high school team in hitting, of which they might keep one...A FREE BALLPLAYER.
I can see why they tell the kids elbow up. I was one of those coaches were I preach elbow up and then at the same time keep knuckles in a straight line and it just was so confusing for 9 and 10 years old, they had an awkward swing. What I learn is and work better even with my 6 year old son is as long they have the knuckles line up and are comfortable swinging the bat. As long they learn how to load and swing eventually the elbow will come up. I know 99% percent of the MLB players today bat with the elbow up but their are players like Anthony Rizzo of Cubs, The Famous Babe Ruth batted with elbow down.
Coach, your hands are in a different position at your chest than at your back ear. When we load, or even at a young age we tell kids to hold their hands by their ear, look at the position of your small knuckles when your hands are elevated at the ear. Much more comfortable position at the ear. Don't leave that part out... You have 2 positions prior to delivery of the ball. Hit ready, pitch ready. At pitch ready, hands are elevated close to ear, and that's the position that is most comfortable with small knuckles being lined up, which is most similar to keeping palm up/palm down at impact.
The ultimate goal of every hitter is to make contact through a consistent approach every time you get to the plate. Elbows down is the natural position when holding a bat. It is the position that all hitters will take no matter how you position your elbow, (If it feels good you can have your back elbow pointed to sun!!!). I'm a knuckle alignment guy as opposed to a boxed grip.
How you start as a hitter is not necessarily how you will finish, and your approach/mechanics at the plate will change over time if needed.
Posting pictures of abnormally large human beings isn't validation of an approach to hitting.
Contact first, contact only.
I always tell my kids to remember the best hitting position is palm over palm...Tony Gywnn preached this really hard. Once they are in that perfect hitting position, I ask them to slowly bring the bat back to the launch position and let them feel where their hands are moving. I then direct them to lift that back elbow as far as they can comfortably... provided their hands do not get too far out of whack. I have them repeat that motion until it becomes a memory. On occasion, I have encouraged hitters to adjust the bat angle with that lead hand to make it more comfortable on their hands. In unison, I can get them close to that "Elbow up" feeling they want from watching the pro's, to the hand over hand position of the perfect hitting position. What do you all think?
Its just like the "squish the bug" thing with the back foot and rotating your hips. Focus more on hitting the baseball, rather than all these other movements.
hi coach. I coach 10 to 12 year olds. now I'm gonna keep and eye on does hands more.
thank u
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! Lots of great perspectives! As I stated in the video, there is never one universal way to do anything in baseball. Elbow up, elbow down ... find what works best for the individual player and maximize their own unique set of strengths. Best of luck to all of you and thanks again! - Coach McCreary
I like elbow up because it straightens my swing.
@@jamesmarkheat that is true
I deal with this all the time as a coach for 9-11 years olds and with thier parents. I tell my kids to put your elbows where it's comfortable and line up the knuckles (Box Grip), not the knocking knuckles. It's all about being comfortable in the box and not some contortionist pose and elbows up in most cases is not comfortable when I ask my players.
I was an above .500 hitter in high school varsity and I always keep my back elbow up. Today I coach my kids the same hitting style, both of my boys are the best hitter in their little league group.
Hands are still above the elbow in your example photos. I tell my kids to get their hands back behind the ear and get the elbow up to a cpmfortable position.
When I line up my knuckles and I put up my elbow nothing happens.
Robert Garner 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I prefer to keep my back elbow down
Hey Coach, I’m a player for Towamencin Baseball and I was just wonder if I should add the back elbow up in my swing and also when ever I try to add a little bit more power, should I have a little bit more trouble keeping my eye on the ball. Should I just take time to ease the back elbow into my swing or should I gradually add it into my swing?
Raising the elbow really isn't necessary. You can give it a try and see if it feels comfortable and if it produces results. Power usually comes from using your lower half more so if you are interested in getting more power, focus on your lower half. Good luck this year!
Bob McCreary Thanks Coach and same to you. Let’s get another State Champ!
Most kids are not going to understand how to work there elbows back down as the pitcher delivers the ball. They'll load into a bat rap and take the pitch with their bat pointed at the pitcher instead of working back towards the ball as the pitch is being delivered.
What percent of MLB hitters are actually lining up the knuckles?
In reality, probably very few. The problem is when young kids get them WAY out of alignment. "Lining knuckles up" is just a starting point. Most, including me when I played, move to something that better suits their needs. As I said, one size does not fit all.
Elbow up allows short compact swing and shouldn’t be taught first thing knuckles ligned properly not tight hard grip too hand allowing palm up while rotating triangle staying bent allowing player to power through the ball and not straightening out until after contact and rotation
Coach,
I think you are confusing when the back elbow comes up - is it in the stance or as a result of the counter-rotational movement (load), loading the scap.
Check where those hitters, whose pictures you showed, to see where their back elbow is in the stance and compare it to where it is in the so-called load. That may clear things up. Also, check the grips of the players you showed to see their grips.
I agree Joseph. My point in the video was to address the dad/coach says a batter MUST keep his elbow up in the stance and the dad/coach who says a batter must NEVER keep his elbow up. As you implied, there is more to it than that. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Bob McCreary
A batter must not keep his elbow up but it winds up going up as part of the scap load, which is a contributing factor in separating the upper and lower halves, resisting the opening of the front hip. Thanks for the response. Some guys on here don't answer back when their viewpoint is challenged.
You're welcome Joseph. Happy New Year and best of luck to you!
Bob McCreary
So, what's the answer - up or down? It's up as the hitters you showed in your video demonstrate.
I think the problem is not with the grip, though I'm not a fan of lining up the knock knuckles, but how the front forearm is positioned. If you position the front forearm more parallel to the ground it will be easier to keep the elbow up in the stance. And, keeping it up and relaxed in the stance is a good idea since the back elbow goes up in the scap load as part of the counter-rotational movement. You can't counter-rotate with both elbows down or with both elbows down. Happy New Year but it would be happier if your hitters learn these key movements.
Joseph Yurko I think it depends on the hitter himself for example one don't raise his back elbow and the other don't and yet they have the same batting average the also their grips are different as well but also I think raising the elbow helps cause some hitters that don't raise their elbow will still raise their elbow as they proceed to swing then they would be swinging too late while the one who raise their elbows will swing at the right time cause they already got the momentum to hit it hard
best for little leaguer's to start with knuckles lined up, just like Aaron Judge. A lot of MLB players line up the first part of the fingers or box as mentioned below. Go past this and you get a hammer grip where the top hand is too strong changing the swing plane to a dip or V making it more difficult to make contact and extremely difficult to hit a curve ball which ends most High School hitters playing time. Kids tend to migrate to this 'hammer grip" as they age up , 14 or so, as the grip feels stronger while holding the bat up pre-swing. Then they chop at the ball and at impact the top hand is very weak in addition to causing the bat to swing down at the ball rather than on plane and level. HS Coaches should check this often as it is one reason hitters go into a slump - even some MLB hitters drift into a hammer grip and slump.
no Judge uses knocker knuckle grip with his knuckles not the 'box' grip. See his HR derby performance.
You are right.. i found some pictures of him in a box.. But he aligns the knuckles, and because of this he has very loose bat grip... I would not use this as an example, as most players 6'2 and under will not be able gain enough bat head speed to do the same thing.
yes his grip is very loose at the top/beginning but seems to be knocker knuckles at impact which in golf grip terms is very strong putting the palm behind the bat instead of finger crease at impact. For players under 12 the knocker knuckles appears essential.
I always had mine up, but maybe I was an anomaly.
7:25 i have multiply problems with what u are saying. LOOK AT UR SWING. U had no hip action at all. If u turned ur hips ur bad is right at the ball. When u swung u literally moved ur hands over the ball. No shit u can't hit the ball because even if u did u had not hip action. Try swing with hip action and u will have a much easier time.
Every big league hitter drops their elbow anyways! Just an extra step for a kid
I stopped listening when he said to line up the knuckles.
doesn't this compare to a take away in a golf swing....the power comes from the coil motion of your hips and shoulders then in order to keep the lag you bring the club inside which pulls your right elbow in (right handers)....which means your elbow was up.....i guess the verdict is yes your elbow will be up but don't artificially put your elbow up. Then again i suck at both sports so what do i know
Okay, so the myth being perpetuated is the lining up of the knuckles. Go back to the pictures you used earlier for your illustration and you will notice Mike Trout uses a box grip where the big knuckles are lined up with the little knuckles on the hands and his elbow is up, or back as we say. Others are anywhere from lined up with most being somewhere in the middle and their elbows are up as they fall into the universal Launch position. The way you demonstrate here is a misrepresentation to prove your point. As you stand with your elbow up you show your front and back shoulder level, which they are not at the universal Launch position/front heel plant. You are being somewhat disingenuous here by rotating your hands they way you do and keeping your barrels almost vertical. I can hold my bat with knocking knuckles lined up, raise or elevate my back elbow which then tilts my front shoulder down and be in a much better position at Launch than what you are demonstrating. Now, elbow high, medium or low in your stance is more of a style preference and has nothing to do with technique, or mechanics.
Thank for watching and commenting! As I said early on, there are no universals whether it be "keeping the elbow up" or "lining up the knuckles." You are correct ... keeping your elbow high, medium, or low is more of a preference and not mandatory. That proves my point. There are no universals. Best of luck and thanks again for taking the time to comment.
You're welcome. Maybe I missed that in your video...it's possible. Definitely plenty of ways to skin a cat. Best of luck to you as well.
Holding the bat in your fingers instead of the palms and keeping the knuckles aligned allows you to explode the bat through the zone and not roll your wrist until the follow through. It is completely true
Not only that, but if the bat is held deep in the palms (like many kids improperly do) instead of holding it more out on the fingers (the proper method), it tends to lock the wrists during the swing and it takes away that "snap" a batter gets that accelerates the batter during the swing. Basically, by holding the bat in the palm, it turns the bat into a sluggish "club" instead of an agile "whip".
Coach McCreary's point is well taken. Whenever I see a player doing something "wrong", whether it be a batter, pitcher or fielder - I always focus on the "end state". For instance, no matter how unusual a batter's stance may be ... the pitcher's wind-up may be ... or the fielder's ready position may be ... I always ask, "When the critical moment occurs, is their body ready and optimized to be successful?"
Does anybody remember Craig Counsell's batting stance? (He's now the manager of the Milwaukee Brewers) That batting stance is crazy! Yet, if you've ever seen Counsell actually swing at a pitch (particularly in slow motion), one can see that he actually gets all his body parts in the same position as all batters with more conventional stances. In other words, Counsell's "end state" is optimized - although, at first glance, it doesn't seem that would be possible. ua-cam.com/video/2wEaKUslLAw/v-deo.html
Not true! A batter with a loose grip "fingertips" will loose energy transfer from the bat. A batter properly gripping the bat and loaded properly, will transfer bat energy without rotating their wrist's or rolling over. Slow explosion is related to poor timing meaning hands and hips are opening up out of sync! Rotation of both should happen simultaneously, or as close as possible.
Just remember not to flex the arm muscles, as the only muscles you want flexed are the forearms!
Okay so im varsity baseball but my batting is not and that is because i have picked up a habbit of having a really wide swing my friend has me go against a wall and keep my swing in but is there anything else i can do?
Thanks for the question. Fence drills are fine if they are done right. The drill in this video might help too. ua-cam.com/video/OOGopocGWqA/v-deo.html
Good luck!
Bob's video below is a good one. The "Swing in" that you seek comes down to your hands staying closer to your body as you swing. The closer you hold something to the center of your body the lighter it feels and the faster you can swing it. The same is true with your hands and the bat they hold. Think about what you would have to do to snap a belt or a rolled up towel at a pitched ball if you were holding it like a bat with 2 hands. You wouldn't cast your hands in front of you towards the plate then bring them forward to swing the belt because you would lose the snapping effect. You would start the swing of the belt with your hands moving towards the ball and let the belt catch up to create the snap. Now think about creating that same snapping sensation with a bat in your hand. The knob of the bat (led by your hands) goes towards the ball (not the plate) as you start your swing then the barrel drops in with snapping momentum. In comparison when you cast your hands towards plate like you do now it feels like you're pulling the bat like a limp belt through the zone slowly. Every drill mentioned here in the replies is to get you to redirect your hands from casting them towards the plate to leading the them towards the ball during the start of your swing. I hope that makes sense.
The coach is right because the first thing u so is drop it so why put it up it just slows down ur swing
Caleb Leonard say that to mike trout.
LOL what? Then why do most MLB players have a high elbow at front toe touch?
I bet you cannot find one MLB player that lines his knuckles up, I bet if hundred players pick a bat up naturally what feels comfortable they will not line their knuckles up
Brian Zeiger You are correct. “Lining up the knuckles” is more of a guideline or starting point and not a hard rule. Same with “stay on top of the ball” or “reach out front” when you pitch. They are exaggerated sayings meant to keep young players from doing the opposite extreme. Thanks for commenting
This is a straw dog... the pictures tell only half the story... the real story is that the pro's and all good hitters keep the distance between their elbows nearly the same up to, even thru, contact. Your swing is flawed (@6:36-6:41). The elbows are pinching together; the lead arm straightening too early. Results: bat drag, lack of power, flat or descending bat head path causing grounders and pop ups... even worse... strike outs b/c your bat path is descending... not ascending. People, watch the best hitters in the world on video and you'll see their lead arm stays bent (it's all about the shoulders turning), the back arm forms the power L and the bat is on an upward path thru the hitting zone (positive launch angle... line drives and home runs). You're showing the old school Charlie Lau swing which manifested itself in the 60's and pretty much went to the trash heap by the 80's.
Good insights, but some wrong inferences and poor logic (which abounds in coaching everywhere).
1. You provide examples of "top hitting" pros with their elbows up. This is faulty logic because there are also great pros with low elbows.
2. You provide examples of "top hitting" pros with their elbows up. This is faulty logic because it assumes that kids and pros have the same toolset.
Pros are outliers. Those with high elbows are also strong enough to create velocity at the bat head. Kids are still getting strong. A flatter bat and low-angle elbow is a quick bat, and the stretch reflex needed for power can still be achieved through hip separation.
This stuff about knuckles and alignment is sort of a distraction. You can pick up a bat right now and arrange your grip ten different ways regardless of elbow height and get ten different alignments. The bigger problem that is NOT being addressed here is the grip on the bat -- this is a hugely overlooked aspect to hitting that is as important as the grip in golf. No one talks about grip, and it is the biggest untapped aspect. I'm not talking about knuckle alignment, which is a poor swing cue and teaching cue. I'm talking about the angle of the bat in the palm, the grip intensity, the depth of the bat handle in the grip, and even differences between the top and bottom hands on the handle. Adjusting these can have a huge impact on translation hand-eye coordination to the barrel. The best hitters in the world have come to the adjustments through trial and error, but it also should be addressed in coaching.
Hitting the ball is the result of a chain of events that has little to do with where the elbow is, and almost everything to do with the level of coordination executed on the bat head. If a kid with a high elbow and tall bat cannot drop the bat and elbow in time to react, emulating a pro who can do so is useless. If a kid's kinetic chain is best connected to the barrel by a low elbow and flat bat, that kid has a greater chance of hitting a ball. End of story.
Tell a kid to whack the snot out of a dot painted on a heavy/punching bag with an axe handle. That will tell you EVERYTHING about where his or her power is relative to the height of his/her elbow, and it will tell you a lot about how that kid holds something to hit something else. You will also see very few "high elbows" because a high elbow disengages the lat-hip chain. You won't see lumberjacks generating power with a high elbow.
The biggest problem in all of swing coaching is teaching details that are the result of something else. Having a kid think about knuckle alignment is comically distracting.
The fastest way to make great strides in a swing is to teach it with fewer words and technical details and more kinetic feedback. FEEL.
Sports is just filled with good intentions, but the best coaching remains as rare and elusive as athletic talent itself.
Show us your video.
*yawn* That's a tired reply, buddy. Real tired. Yet another failure of logic and critical thinking. Do you ask restaurant reviewers for recipes? Do you ask movie critics what movies they've directed? And who is "us"? You have voices in your head? Join the adult world and stop with the cliches.
Haha. Faulty logic.
Their is a too low in my opinion.
When analyzing video of my HS girls doing tee work, I tend to see more initial swing issues with girls that start with low rear elbows. The biggest being they will collapse their hitting box leading their hand with the elbow and dragging their bat thru the hitting zone instead of lagging the bat thru the zone. The other big elbow issue I see is kids baring their front elbow (straight arm) before ever making contact with the ball which results in lots of weak ground and fly balls. Keeping a strong hitters box to the ball is essential. Elbows play a huge roll in maintaining that hitters box and a powerful swing. You will always have someone that has swing flaws and can still hit the ball pretty good, but proper mechanics is essential to hitting the ball consistently hard for the vast majority of hitters. Little kids are different as they are just learning the game and can only handle 1 or 2 things to do properly at a time. Little steps make long term progress.
Grip is also important. Over rotation of the hands and a weak grip being the 2 biggest issues. I like to see a cup in each wrist when they have a proper grip.
I totally agree with feeling the swing. All my check points during tee work with my girls have a feeling associate with each aspect. When you feel the proper way over and over during tee work, after awhile you don't have to think about what to do, it's just ends up becoming how you do it every time.
I coached D1 select 13-15 year olds. We went 45-3. Using this technique. Elbow up is great for big power hitters. Most kids are not home run hitters. And never will be. They need quick bat. Which is what you're talking about. Make contact. Make them throw you out. It works. Elbow up old school dad's who never coached unitl their son played is what you're dealing with in comments. Ignore them. They won't prove you wrong. But they will childishly insult you for having a differnet veiw then what is the norm. Quick bat brings up averages in an alarming way .swinging for the fences. Is a joke. They strike out more than they hit home runs..good comment.
Raise the bat and your knuckles will stay aligned.
yes, raise the bat!!! Started telling my son this and it works.
Your example of putting the elbow up is deeply flawed Not to mention your example of roll over.
First, The elbow should be raised into position as the batter is loading. Not before, as you will see this with every major league batter, minus Hunter Pence and a couple of others.
Pence, and a couple of other pro players drop or raise their hands before they swing. Meaning their elbows are at 45 degrees from each other or in the "A" position with tips down, and the bat barrel is likely down (ie the loop in the bat head!)
Loading: Loading is when you move the weight back. This should happen when the hands go back, when the hands are pushed back by the front arm, the elbow either goes up to a 90 degree position or tucks near the body. If the elbow tucks to the body it creates timing issues through extra motion.
Tucked elbow Issues: Dropped hands, high hands, dipping of the shoulder, and striding to make up for low bat speed.
- Dropped hands:
Creates a loop in the swing: Creates strike zone issues and makes the player vulnerable to pitches away aswell as up. So he/she better hope all pitches are middle in. The bat does not stay on the same plain as the ball long enough. Makes for inconsistent ball contact, pop ups, and lots of strike outs.
- High hands:
Any pitch low becomes an issue, and the bat becomes more like an ax causing the batter to hack at pitches that are low. As scene by HOTZONE graph of hunterpence. Or it creates a golf swing! Many issues with a ball moving and a golf swing approach, the curve ball is devastating!
Shoulder dipping is an obvious issue for all!
Slow bat speed sign of a front foot hitter, and weak forearms very few front foot power hitters make it pro! "ie... Bryce Harper" Not to mention front foot hitters are slap hitters! Trouble with hard throwing pitchers, and pitches away.
Two hands on a bat after contact, is a bad example of roll over! Roll over is related to a pull hitters, attempting to pull an outside pitch, or a dipped shoulder of a player trying to get under the ball.
Middle knuckles aligned are "okay" for players that have no upper body mass. So this should not be a rule of thumb. Wider players do not/cannot align middle knuckles when loaded! But if they were to align it would be the first knuckle of the top hand with the second/middle knuckle of he bottom hand.
In my opinion, wrist angle to elbow angle is more important to teach. A bent or flexed wrist will cause 95% of the batter issues.
Put a batter in is loaded position and fix the wrist's. Bent or flexed wrist cause many bad habits, 1 of them is the bat barrel dropping over the shoulder of the hitter as he starts his swing. This creates a loop in the swing and forces the batter to drop is shoulder and turning his elbow in and under prematurely. Thus, the reason to teach hitters to raise there elbow when they load!
Easiest way to teach:
1) Put the batter in is pre-loaded stance (before the pitcher comes set) with the bat rested on his shoulder.
2) Tell him to grip the bat tight.(do not have him flex his harms, just grip which deals with forearms.) This will force the bat to raise up off his shoulder, putting his wrists in a 90 degree
3) With the bat gripped tight, have them push the lower hand back no further than the back shoulder depending on there arm length. This will force them to load by pushing their weight back over the back leg. This part is key: Wherever, the elbow ends up is where it should be! Just remember the front arm should not be straight, or lower hand should not be any further back than they back shoulder.
I am willing to be that if you follow this the properly, the back elbow will rise to the proper position. Thus, placing the bat barrel close to 90 degrees, but it is properly placed based on bat grip. The bat barrel should never be laid back over the shoulder when the swing starts! I say again never! Loopy swing creates big holes!
Lifting your elbow does not unalign your knuckles.
How many of us didn’t have a bat or a broom around so we just grabbed our ding dongs to see how it feels to have our knuckles aligned? Huh?? Just me?
Only those of us with huge penises so I guess you can say I had a air bat!!!!
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Bastbol
I haved always believed in balanced approach in hitting a basaball.by that i mean SWITCH HITTING.AS. TED WILLIAMS SHOWS IN BOOK ON HITTING. IF YOU. HIT. 250 RIGHTHANDED VS RIGHT HANDED PITCHER.THEN YOu shoud be able to 325. Vs lefty .that the. Hitter gains 30% advantage. You can teach. A hitter to switch and bat right? Getting i found point of rhythm and relaxation in hitting an approach. That begins ala pete rose .wide closed stance .a flat. Swing. Timing his practice swings .and then set to hit. A varied the stance by moving from that position WHEN THE PITCHER HAS GOTTEN THE Point of ARM BACKED COCKED .SEE BALL.JUST BEFORE THE DRIVE ANDDELIVERY.TO MOVING MY BACK FOOT FORWARD.THE BACK ARM LEFT.COMES WITH THE BY USING Right or front arm. To an upright stance .bat cocked to 1 oclock or. More for power .relying on quickness of both hands AND FEET. ADJUSTING FEET OF SPEED AWAY.OR OPENING FRONT FOOT SHOULDER HIP.TODRIVE IN SIDE PITCH . WHAT DO YOU THINK.OF THIS. APPROach.J.P.
WHAAAAAAAAAT?
No no no
elbow up elbow down who gives a shit, just hit the freaking ball!!!! Keep it simple
William Durazo they try to make Everything too technical. There's the fundamental. Then you have the people who don't even play the game trying to make things complicating
Just hit the ball is like telling a pitcher that isn't throwing strikes to just throw strikes. What is wrong with teaching kids the proper mechanics to be a consistent hitter that hits the ball hard? The hardest thing in sports is to hit a small ball coming at you at various speeds, dropping while it's moving, with a bat that is just bigger than the ball and you have to swing it from behind you and get it on the same path as the ball. Swing with bad mechanics and over time it's easy to get discouraged on why you can't hit good and others can. Teach them how to hit properly, throw properly. catch properly, run properly and I guarantee you will have a more satisfied player and parents.
You forget that someone had to coach and teach these pros at one time. Even though these coaches are not playing the game at a professional level they know the game. They know technique. They know how to correct . Telling a kid "Just hit the Ball" will not promote the proper skill that some players seek.
Elbow up elbow down who gives a shit!!! And then I slap shot your fake hand into the highway!!!!!
I know this to be true because a kid that played baseball in my league when I was younger was mediocre at best and that was at everything: Hitting, throwing running. But then he started taking batting lessons and every time he hit the ball it was a hard line drive over second base. At least most of the time. But his throwing and speed and everything else just stayed mediocre.
I totally disagree with lining the knuckles up, it is extremely uncomfortable and I hit fine without doing it, I would only average 3 strikeouts a year and batted well over .300! If anything I think it zaps you’re power away
You need to be more concise. Don’t talk to make a certain amount of time, this ruins your video quality.
Get to the point
Manners are free . That point quick enough for you ,and so is this info
no kidding !!!
somekindaguy100 not a manners issue. Just good feedback. This guy's next video will be better as a result. Waaaaaaay better.