The Scarborough RT - Toronto Transit History
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2025
- In this video I look at the history of the Scarborough RT Line (Line 3) from its proposal as a "High-speed" Streetcar line to the "Light Metro" that exists today.
Information from:
Transit Toronto: transittoronto...
Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.o...
Photos from:
Stationfixation: www.stationfix...
Hello all. In this video around the end I bring up the potential closure of the SRT before the subway extension opens. As of the time I am writing this comment it seems Mayor John Tory has acknowledged the SRT likely being closed before the extension opens and the TTC is investigating alternate transit methods for riders of the SRT.
Thank you for bring home to me as i live in Nova Scotia but was born and raised in Toronto
Better plan would have extended the Subway line:
along Eglinton Ave East towards
Midland Danforth McCown Bellamy Markham road
Kingston Road, Guildwood Parkway, Guildwood station
and finally Morningside Ave.
Come to think of it. If TTC had stuck with it's original plan to become a streetcar subway equivalent to Line 5 Eglinton, Line 3 probably would've not been so mediocre & would've still been active even after 2022 since it could use the Bombardier Flexity LRVs to instantly replace the CLRVs & ALRVs. Unfortunately Line 3 has no replacement for the aging ICTS MK1s. Therefore, we gotta wait until after 2030 for the Line 2 Extension.
The reason for the negatively charged power rail is because the linear induction motor ever so slightly lifts the wheels off the running rail when accelerating from standstill. This is just enough separation to open the circuit and cut power to the motor, resulting in a terrible oscillation loop that would very quickly short out and ruin the motors. So a 4th rail is needed for this type of linear induction system.
You called it regarding the closure being sooner than 2026! But, why does no one mention the stench between ellesmere and Midland?? LMAO thank you Atlantic packaging lol
I'd pretty strongly suggest another in his series on the Hamilton ICTS project.
@Karym Eliya I was thinking the ICTS plan.
www.trainweb.org/hamtransithist/ICTS.html
Wholly different corridor from the current project.
o7
RIP SRT. You served Scarborough proudly
These videos are amazing about learning more about the city in detail. Great work man.
RIP SRT
This video is substantially accurate, but there are a few points that should be corrected. First is the claim that the conversion to LRT was part of the Transit City plan. That is NOT true as the original transit city report shows. At the time the idea of re-equipping the line and possibly extending it was still active. However, it soon became evident that an LRT conversion in the context of a Scarborough LRT network and one rather than two separate carhouses would be cheaper and operationally simpler. Second is the date of origin of the scheme. The TTC was looking at a subrban LRT network in the late 1960s that included a line from Warden Station (then the east end of the BD line) northeast to Malvern as part of a wider network in areas that at the time were substantially undeveloped. Any discussion of the history of suburban transit needs to reflect what was there at the time, not what is there today. Finally a note about the structure through STC. When it was at grade it was claimed that this would block development south of the tracks (e.g. the Bell Canada building that is there today). This was actually a ruse to get Scarborough politicians to accept n elevated structure, something they opposed but grudgingly accepted. That paved the way for an elevated ICTS line without a concurrent battle over the visual impact of the guideway. Congrats for a video that covers a lot of the history and detail of this line in one place!
24:11 old trains built-in 2000 for Millennium line. 2009 newer train and finally new all 4 connect trains 2019 & 2020.
Grow up living in the south side of Kennedy Station in the 1990s. Scarborough grow in late 1990 & 2000. Development built around Scarborough Town centre Condominium.
Weekend in early 1990 quiets. Track Maintenance every weekend for a 5 months at a time every 3 - 5 years. As I recalled. Weekdays is busy. In 1990 - 1996.
Fantastic video! Great work finding all those old photos too, especially with the delivery of the first rt vehicles and from opening day.
Vancouver just announced they're buying their largest-ever order of new vehicles for their system. to replace their MK I fleet (same as the rt). It's really unfortunate Toronto didn't go this route and maintain their system. It's kind of unheard of for a city to just claim "it's at the end of it's life" and throw away an entire line. I hope people realize how incredibly wasteful this is.
TTC screws up everything they touch the RT was pooly maintained as the rest of the subway just look at their track record just wait the Eglinton line gets 20 years old it will be run down as well NY city subway still uses old block system and have no problems imagine NYC subway down like the ttc every day NYC would be a disaster
Even today we’re bouncing back and forth between 1, 3, and 4 stops and the planned bus terminal. Just way too much politics
Great video as always 😊
I always figured that when the time comes to retire the SRT technology, then the TTC should unload it for free to the Metro Zoo, as a replacement for the monorail that closed years ago.
@@Saucy-ws6jc Thank you for the long-winded reply, but it was just a comment on what was a trend 50 years ago... there were quite a few zoos in N.A. at that time installed "monorail" type visitor rides. Intended as an up-close-and-above method for observing animals in large natural habitats, with a minimum of noise or disturbance. The monorail used pneumatic wheels on a concrete guideway. The RT's LIMs make that distinctive "RRRrrrr...RRRRrrrrrrr...RRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr.." sound so likely unsuitable. It would be interesting to tally those park monorail systems, to see whether some are still running in original state, or had technology renewed, or been dismantled and not replaced. Same goes for other "tiny" transit systems, like funiculars, peoplemovers, PRTs, and horizontal elevators that were all the rage in the 1970s.
Ahh finally, after 2 months, a new video!!
What is the name of the music that you used during 23:56 - 27:10?
@22:59 I'm sorry, but what? I know I'm 3 years late, but I couldn't let this go. The only time the drivers would be 'driving' the trains is when not in ATO (automatic train operation). The only time that happened is when there was an issue with the system requiring trains to be in Cab Sig (Cab Signaling mode), where normal operation can occur with the signal showing up on an indicator to the right of the windscreen, or in emergency mode where the train (and central computer) isn't tracking it's location.
The VAST majority of the time the trains operator in ATO, the driver was there to monitor the system, and the press the green button at every station to close the doors. The computers (one in every car, the computer in command was round robin, with a reselection happening southbound at Lawrence East Station, you could hear the handoff happen when the EBs (emergency brakes, more on them later) drop very momentarily during the transition), with the other computers monitoring (if a problem with a computer was found it would be disabled) 'drove' the train, including braking.
Normal braking was accomplished mostly by the LIMs (linear induction motors) feeding energy back into the grid. The last bit of braking (and for normal station keeping, more on that later) was done by disc brakes on the trucks, which is why there was a little 'squeal' right at the end of coming to a stop. This was the case whether the computers were driving or the operator was driving, the operator didn't operate the disc brakes separate from the LIM brakes. The ONLY way a wheel wouldn't turn with the rail would be with the disc brakes engaged.
In regards to the flat spots, this had NOTHING to do with the operators. The SRT operated on a 'moving block' system, the central computer knew where every train was, and ensured separation between those trains. As you mentioned, sometimes there were issues with the position sensing, and what could happen is if the train 'timed out' the computers on board would 'abort' operation basically since the central computer was now unsure where the train was located. This resulted in ALL brakes applying at once, including the emergency brakes, which were these huge electromagnets hovering just over the running rails. When they slammed down the train came to a stop rather quickly. At the point the operator would have to contact transit control to get clearance to move, and then in emergency mode (limited to 10kph IIRC) would drive the train to the next 'entry point', indicated by a blue light. There the train would re-enter the system and ATO operation could continue.
It was these EB events that resulted (mostly) in the flat spots on the wheels. Aside from the train that came to a stop, there was often a divot on the rail resulting in further trains to start developing flat spots as their wheels ran over these divots.
This meant ALOT of rain grinding and wheel machining having to be done to keep the system less loud than crazy loud.
"we get what we pay for" ... the subway option was too expensive then? now we are left paying for a system twice! 25 year life expectancy is a joke for infrastructure.
What if they just built the Bloor-Danforth Line Extension to Scarborough Town Centre instead of the Scarborough RT in the 1980s?
They probably could have but I would guess by then everyone was fully onboard with the streetcar idea until the Province came along and upended everything. Planner back in the early days didn't see the potential in the subway to STC and Scarborough wasn't exactly on-board with the cost of a subway so I think that mentality would have been the same in the 80's as it was in the 70's.
@@METRO6 You Forgot to mention the PET government, refused to fund the Subway extension of the BDL as well.
It’s sad that this line is being replaced by a subway line that serves fewer people. I guess Douggie wants to follow through with Rob’s Scarborough subway…SMH.
I really like this about TTC train
Those trains are HECK loud
As someone from the US having experienced Miami's Downtown People Mover and heard about good operations of Detroit's, and the success of the Skytrain in Vancouver, I'm puzzled why the TTC didn't build the Eglinton line as a Skytrain and incorporated a rehabilitated SRT into it?
Sorry for the late reply. For a brief time after the Province took over the Transit City plan they did briefly consider building the Eglinton Crosstown (Line 5) as an extension of the SRT using the newer Mk.II Trains (or Mk.III's depending on the timeline) like are used in Vancouver. I believe this idea however was dropped due to the cost. There was also a brief proposal to merge the Eglinton Crosstown and SRT together as an LRT line however that never happened as well for political reasons. So there have been at least 2 attempts to merge the Eglinton Crosstown and SRT into a single line but both had failed either due to cost or politics.
The LIM tech just sucks here in Toronto. The subways which have regular electric motors and human operation seams to work better than Line 3/Scarborough RT mentioned in this video.
Pretty sure I heard ALRV from articles.
Its strange to watch this now that Line is is permanently shut down. To think, slightly different thinking and compromises would've given us our high speed streetcar line. In that reality, all we would've had to do is replace the CLRV trains with Flexity outlook trams.
do a video on line 5 and 6 (Eglinton and Finch West)
whats the name of the background song in 22:09???
Idk
It appears you deal only in publicly available material.
It would be interesting to know more about the Ford/McGuinty plan of 2011. The (MOU) agreement allowed for elevated portions near Black Creek Drive, through the Don Valley, and near Kennedy.
I wonder what work was done on this, including such things as south side alignment at Leslie.
In hindsight - it may have been the best plan we had, as it would have saved us the $5B+ on the B-D extension.
I never heard of this mou plan before and i cant find anything on the internet. what does mou stand for ?
@@SweatySockGaming That is the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between Mayor Rob Ford and Province (Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty) signed on March 31, 2011 that would connect the SRT to a Grade-Separated Eglinton LRT.
For the next year TTC Chair (Karen Stintz) and Province were to explore exact details of the line. Instead, they sabotaged the whole thing to defeat Ford (Stintz because she wanted to become Mayor, and Liberals because Ford strengthened the Conservative party). Feb. 2022, they killed this plan and 4 months later they introduced the Scarborough subway extension.
Here is the MOU. transittoronto.ca/images/March-MOU.pdf
If link doesn't work, try searching "The compromise is SkyTrain: Toronto should be pursuing this technology and not LRT on Eglinton"
FYI it's pronounced "Shrop-shr" and not "Shrop-shiyer"
The line extension along ellesmere road will not get any criticism.
They better just keep Line 3
BREAKING: Scarborough RT considered for shutdown in 2023 and riders might have to use the bus until 2030.
Is that reaaallly that different than now? Scarborough has always gotten butt end of the stick. I've since moved just outside of Scarb (one set of lights west hahaha) but I grew up there and the transit is so bad I go out of away to avoid it.
ttc line 3 will be demmisosed forever it can be
this dude has too much time on his hands