Just started last year it helped me alot. Also I started shooting clays thrown by. Hand thrower. With the actual ammo and choke I was going to use. That made me feel much more confident.
Yes I have I have always wanted to know exactly what my guns and bows are doing and capable of I always felt I owe it to whatever animal I'm hunting also that you for all your hard work on these amazing videos I'm a huge fan
Great video, Joel!!! Back when the Mossberg 835 ultimag came out, I bought one. We had just started turkey hunting and we goose hunted a lot, so I thought the 3 1/2 chamber would really give me an advantage. Well, I struggled all goose season. I missed birds that I never would have missed with my trusty old Winchester 1300. On the first day of turkey season, I was walking back to the truck when a huge tom ran out of the weeds right in front of me. He stood there at 20yds, as confused as I was. I raised my gun and fired. Nothing. As he took off trotting straight away from me, I fired twice more--both clean misses. To add insult to injury, he stopped at 40 yds to look back at me, still confused. When I got home, I decided to pattern the gun. At 20 yds, the pattern barely hit an 8x12 sheet of paper. I had to get a large piece of cardboard for my next shot. The pattern was nearly a foot high and right!!! I don't blame the gun, we just weren't a good match. My cheek bone hit the stock in an odd manner, so I wasn't looking straight down the barrel. I traded it off asap and went back to hunting with my old 1300. I wasted a whole goose season and a huge longbeard because I was too lazy to pattern my gun!!! 😕🥵
As an avid shotgunner always interested in the "physics" behind the game, I will preface the post by saying your videos are, by far, done in the most scientific way possible, meaning attention to variables and controlling bias. To me, the most important message conveyed in this particular video is the explanation between Point of Impact (POI) and Point of Aim (POA). Our definitions are slightly different in that I consider POI as where a shooter actually shoots when he/she points the gun at a dot on a stationary patterning board and pull the trigger, much as you would if shooting a gamebird or clay going DEAD AWAY from you. That tells you where your gun shoots relative to how YOU mount, see and shoot. POA is when you "aim" the gun to make sure the barrels are true. This is particularly important when testing for proper "regulation" between the barrels of an OU or SxS. (And by the way, IMHO, you need more cast off on your shotgun as the distance to the left of your target was too much.) However, your message in this regard is excellent! Where we differ in opinion is the value of THE DISTRIBUTION of pellets in the 30" circle. Chokes are important to allow maximization of the density of the shot cloud at whatever distance is best for the shotgun game being pursued (ie, skeet at 20 yards, ducks at 30-40, turkeys at 50+ etc.) However, again IMHO, a pattern is a two dimensional representation of a three dimensional phenomenon; namely THE SHOT CLOUD. 99% of the time a moving targets is moving THROUGH a cloud. Using your speeds in another video, a nine foot shot cloud passes a point in .012 second. A bird or clay crossing in front of you at 30 mph goes three feet (the width of an optimum pattern) in .068 seconds, therefore encountering roughly 1/2 of the shot cloud during its journey through it. To me, the "holes" in the pattern are meaningless to all but maybe avid trap shooters who encounter "dead away" clays fairly often. If the shot exited the barrel and all lined up in a plane and went down range together in that plane, it would be a different story, but alas, we know this doesn't happen. Two empirical observations to support my point. First of all, if you've ever shot sporting clays, you've undoubtedly turned a clay literally into dust. You don't do this without a "cloud" of pellets. This happens when you've made a perfect shot at a fairly close distance (usually < 20 yards) and the pellets at the front of the cloud hit the clay and break it into a few pieces. As these pieces remain in the cloud, following pellets in the cloud smash these little pieces into smaller pieces and so on until there's nothing left but dust. If the pellets encountered the clay at exactly the same time (ie, in that aforementioned plane), there would be no way to "dust" the bird! The second observation can be made at any sporting clays range. I've watched master class shooters using light mod chokes break edge-on crossing clays 10 or more straight times without missing. Heck, I can usually hit 7 out of 10 myself. Now, hang a clay target, edge on, from a string at 50 yards, step back with your modified choke and shoot at it. I'd bet you $100 you would break it 5 times out of a box of shells. Why? One, because the moving clay is passing through a CLOUD of pellets and the second, less important factor is that a spinning clay has centrifugal forces working on it that help it spin apart when cracked by pellets. Go shoot a load of 7 1/2 or 8 shot loads from your modified choke and see how many edge-on silhouettes of a clay you can draw in the gaps in even a nicely distributed pattern at 50 yards. I invite all civil responses. Have a great day!
Have spent the past 45 years patterning every gun, load and choke I use to hunt and trap shoot with. Started with lead shot using shot buffeter and even cutting my own wads to achieve the best pattern for the ranges I am shooting. Lot's of hours shooting paper and counting holes to get my percentages. What chokes work best for each size of pellet out of each gun. Learning the importance of lengthening the forcing cone, back boring and the best length of choke tube for the smoothest taper and transition for the best patterns at all ranges. Modern guns come with most of that already done to them. I grew up with having to have all that done to your field guns. Gun fit is just as important because at the same time you are pattern testing you will find out if your choke tube is drilled properly and not off center. You find out if your gun is shooting high, low, left or right and by how much. Then modifications need to be made from there. Again, modern guns come with all those adjustments. Having the proper cast and drop for your body type. Most manufactures build guns for a person who is 5'-10" tall. Medium arm length and build. Nothing more important than gun fit because your eye is the rear site and it must be in the right place every time.
I'm one of those that has never patterned a shotgun and I've been gunning for close to 40 years. In the next week or 2 I'm finally going to do it thanks to you. Keep pumping out the fantastic videos, your teaching an old timer new things.
Thanks for sharing that! Good for you👍🏻you’ll learn something, for sure. You’ll come away confident with your previous choices or you’ll know you need to make a change.
I have enjoyed the series. As someone who handloads their own buckshot I love all things "shot" related. Growing up there were certain guns in my community that were just known to be "natural born killers". No matter who was using it, those guns just seemed to be more efficient. Most folks thought it was their pattern. And some of that was the case once folks started patterning their guns. But there still some that just seemed much more effective even though other guns shot similar patterns. As I got older and learned more about shooting I began to wonder if it was the "shot string" of that particular gun that made is so effective. Never really knew how I could test it but I am SUPER excited to watch your next video. Oh yeah, and any serious shotgun shooter should own a Lead Sled. I use mine way more patterning buckshot, turkey loads and buckshot.
Another very helpful video. As someone who didn’t get into waterfowling until they were mid 30s I appreciate you sharing all your knowledge and wisdom from time guiding and in the field. Keep up the good work Joel and crew!
you my friend are dead on,Ive been reloading since I was a teenager and I've done a lot of patterning and you are right one must know there shotgun choke combo, fantastic work my friend very well done.
Great content. I’ll be the first to admit. I don’t pattern every year. Maybe every other. I did last year. I’ve been shooting boss 1oz 1/4, 2 3/4”, 5 shot copper plated bismuth starting last season. It’s deadly with a modified. My stock choke on my mossberg 835 loves this round. Right in the middle on hotness and the 2 3/4” helps with recoil. The copper plated bismuth is completely revolutionary. The plating keeps the ball shape better than some brands that don’t plate, they frisbee off instead of flying true. I found that patterning matters a lot, but you can easily go one choke size down if you move away from steel and use bismuth or tungsten.
Really enjoying this series. It's always good to brush up on the fundamentals. Hitting what you point at is the difference between hunting and birdwatching
This series has been fantastic! I started duck hunting two years ago and became addicted. Learning a lot from these videos, thanks for taking the time! Hoping someday to get to hunt with you.
I am anxious to see the next video! In order to save time, you may shoot one piece of paper several times f.e. 5-6 and see the density of your pattern. The most dense part will show the real centre of your pattern.
Excellent video. Only suggestion I have is to ignore percentages - they are meaningless. Instead, ensure you have a sufficient numbers of pellets within your 30” circle to ensure clean kills (I like to see at least 100 for large ducks and 140 for small ducks). Also, start patterning at the maximum distance you will actually be shooting birds (be that 30, 40, or 50 yards) rather than just sticking to 40 yards. Determine the most open choke that still provides sufficient pellet strikes to ensure clean kills. Doing this will give you the largest effective pattern possible at any range up to your maximum distance. Good hunting!
Interesting to see your videos. I have been patterning a shotgun for 20+ years. I have been shooting trap since 1982 and hunting ducks since 1972. You are spot on. I have always wanted shotguns that have adjustable stocks and chokes I "sight" in my hunting guns to have the same impact as my trap gun (some would argue that it would bee too high for a hunting gun, but it works great for me). My Browning A5, WInchester SX3 and Benelli SBE3 and Browning XT Trap Combo all have the ability to adjust the stock/comb/choke tube. Then I have patterned my steel shot shells out to 50 yards. I have found my Federal Black Cloud 1 1/8 ounce, 3 shot, 1635 fps only puts 1 or 2 pellets on a duck at 50 yards. Under 25 yards it works great. However, as I push beyond 25 yards, I need more shot like 1 1/4 ounce. I have never shot Boss shells, but I am now looking at buying a case, patterning them and trying them out. I could go on about choke tubes as I have used a micrometer to measure the inside diameter and found a great variation in what companies claim as Full, Mod, IC. I agree the real test is on paper. Keep the unbiased videos coming. Thanks
Mr. Diggweed said in an interview that he uses a full choke to lengthen the shot string and let's the target fly through the shot. I found that interesting after watching your shot string videos.
Can you do a segment on hearing protection sometime? I've been hunting waterfowl for 20+ years and like your typical young person I haven't been using ear protection. I feel that my hearing is still quite good and would like to keep it that way. I'm most interested in the electronic ones that don't dampen all frequencies such as walkers game ear. I'm sure the cheap foam ones would do the job but half the fun of waterfowl hunting is listening their wings cut the air and calling.
Decibullz, Tetra, Axil all offer products that protect your hearing similar to the Walker Game Ear. Some use different technologies, and are in different price ranges. I personally got a pair of the Decibullz Custom Molded Percussive Shooting Filters last year. They work fine to cutoff muzzle blast but do muffle other sounds slightly. They retail for under $80, so a good entry-level product. If i could advise you, I'd say pick what fits your budget today and wear it every time you shoot. If your ears still ring, or if you need to hear the ambient sound better, pick another product. YMMV. Good hunting
Enjoy and appreciate your latest series. I would Iike to here more results from your patterns and choke tube tests. I realize results will vary with different ammo, shot size , and weapons, but would like see your results. Especially after the pattern master video. Thanks again.
Watched all the videos extremely informative , have a question, you said patterning is important, which I have, besides much quicker is there a difference between patterning and tts targets and app ?
When we had to switch from lead in the 90's in England, we patterned the lead decoying load to find the width then with the steel; which were obviously much tighter so we had to use imp cyl chokes to get the same width. We then did the same with our flighting loads. That is why when the change came we were still shooting the same amounts of ducks, when everyone else was struggling. We spoke to some on the marsh and they were very P & OFF. YOU MUST DO IT! With different chokes.
Do you change chokes and take other chokes of different constriction with you hunting. I’ve always wanted to be able and change chokes hunting but walking in makes you consider weight carried. Really good video Joel and thanks for being so mindful about topic discussion points.
I always use a paper plate, I put a staple in the middle to aim dead center and hold the plate. I figure that is a good duck size and they are cheap. Great videos man.
I wanted to know do I have to use the same shells for point of impact verses point of aim as I am going to pattern with? . I am using several gun s and Boss shells could get expensive!
Considering a new shotgun just off the shelf, what pattern % should one expect? In other words if the gun is shot from a stable foundation, while sighting right down the rib with the bead just under target; should there be 50-50%, 60-40%, or what percent of pattern above and below target? Should not one know what the gun does before adjusting for personal holding?
I shoot a trulock precision hunter skeet 2 in my browning bps. Stones em out to 40. I use that one choke only, just change the pellet size according to shot distances and bird size. 3’s or 4’s for teal and woodies, bb’s, 2’s for pass shooting geese and big ducks. 3’s for big ducks in close ranges.
I patterned mine at 30 yards, my usual distance, I'm not that great of a shot beyond 30. Carlson mid range and Boss, slightly better pattern than my factory improved cylinder and modified. Love these videos.
It’s great to see the promotion of pattern testing as a tool to determine the effectiveness of any load and choke tube combination for our given bird hunting application. The only down side I take away from this video is that there is no meaningful information on minimum pattern density values (ie. min pellet strikes in 30” circle) to ensure clean and consistent kills. This is perhaps where scientifically developed lethality tables could be in my opinion quite valuable. The CONSEP data could potentially be a good starting point.
When patterning my SX4 the fiber optic sight tube fell out of the mount. Winchester sent me another sight for free. Then while hunting it flew out again while shooting at ducks. Have you had any problems like this w/ your SX4?
Well made video! Your POI would bug me enough to adjust it (but I get it that it's a personal preference) If shims won't do it, toss on a Beartooth comb. As far as shot string on the water, I think you're seeing more of the bottom pellets hitting close and the top pellets hitting further away. I would like to see the shot string of bismuth.... Brister had his wife drive the paper at 40 mph while he shot the target to measure shot string... Maybe rig up a drone?
I think I patterned when I got my shotgun about 10 years ago, but surely the ammo has likely changed to some degree. The truth is I only shoot 1 maybe 2 boxes of waterfowl loads a year at this point and trying to justify purchasing different loads to see which patterns best is a tough consideration, especially because surely I'll fire a few shells from boxes that don't work great with my gun/choke and then I have this expensive ammo which doesnt work the best for me and need to try and pawn it off to friends.
@@charm2170 Hej there i would get a IM improved mod before you get the full choke. Especially if you shot steel shot. Some chokes are only designed for full choke when you use lead shot😃 some can but do your self a favor and check it before you pull the trigger
I am an advocate of matching the gun, the choke and the load for longer range waterfowl shooting. But a lead sled is not needed, nor is patterning loads for shooting less than 40 yards unless you are trying to get a more open pattern, If you want to see you impact point while shooting, why would you put your shotgun in a device for rifle shooting and get your head down on the gun and aim? Are you wing shooting from a rest? Go out on a low wind day and point the gun like you would shooting a bird.
Unfortunately the SX4 doesn't come with any stock adjustments. You can align your POA and POI accordingly. Most duck hunters I know don't know nearly as much about their shotgun or shooting as they should. Maybe you could do an episode on "Have you fit your shotgun?" 😉
We did a whole section on gun fit on the first episode of this series. My 20 ga didn’t come with shims, but my 12 ga did at least come with some spacers that you can install between the butt plate and recoil pad.
@@SurvivingDuckSeason you're welcome! This will be my 2nd yr duck hunting, and your channel has helped a ton! The old boys club seems to keep a lot of info tight to the vest! Sporting clays has taught me a good deal about shotgunning. If you're ever in Memphis, let's bust some clays!! 👍
For a shotgun with no spacers or if I need just a slight tweek what i do is get a piece of light plasctic, say a milk bottle or detergent bottle , remove me Butt plate from the gun draw an outline on the plasctic cut it out , several of them in fact , So if I need cast off I cut the outline in half slip it into the stcok and plate on the left side , pattern tha If I ned more I double it up . If I nee to raise my POI I cut the lower part of the plastic and put that in . Even with my A400 shims I need more cast and I also have a piece of plastic at the neck of the stock right behind the action. Put it this way , not if but when I miss now it isnt the guns fault.
@@SurvivingDuckSeason really need that video about shell length before Saturday if that's possible planning on heading to resupply and you've already got my mind questioning my thought process
I patterned mine with my SX4 with factory and Muller Decoy and Passing. I used several different loads. I am not impressed with the SX4 on any of it. The SX4 is shooting way off of center, specifically, high and left. With no shims available for the SX4, I am less than impressed with Winchester right now.
I have pattern tested all the shotguns I’ve ever hunted waterfowl with and shoot factory chokes in most of them and if I didn’t like the pattern I try aftermarket. Pattern at 30-35 yards because I’m not shooting birds at that range even with a 10ga. I am guilty of not testing before hunting them and changing loads
A good way to test if your shotgun fits to you is put full choke, take clay cartridges and shoot 4 reactive shots from 10 yrds to large (47x47 or preferably 60x60 inch) paper where is five about clay size, numbered spots similar pattern as a dice. Shooter takes ready position: gun buttstock to hip level (like international skeet shooting) and friend tells randomly to whitch number you shoot. Shooter makes realtively quick mount to cheek and shots immediately without correcting mounting. After each shot shooter loads gun again and takes new ready position. When four numbers is shot you can draw your average point of impact to last one (or shoot aimed shot to the last one). If there is systematical difference to some direction stock needs to adjust. If impacts are randomly different directions, you need to train mounting your gun (or stock might be too short). If impacts are down gun stock is too low (too much drop). If they are too high drop is too low and if impact are to left or right stock has too little or too much cast. Also too long stock can make impacts go to left. This shoud repeat 3 to 5 times to get good result. Four inch difference from 10 yrds is over feet from 40 yrds. Some shooters like to have their shotgun shoot a little bit over poa.
Shoot your gun so much and practice pass shots on targets a lot. You get where you hit what you're eyes are focused on. I'm focusing on duck's bills. Lots of head shots. Practice until it hurts. Recover. Go shoot some more
Muller is not as good as you say. I'm very unhappy with customer service. Carlson chokes are way better and better customer service. Mullers sales rep is an idiot
Patterning a shotgun should ALWAYS include shooting for your poa/poi determination, then from your closest expected range to your furthest (taking into account the lethality of the shot!). You MUST know what your patterns look like up close as well as out there at 40 yards, plus. The point where you lose pattern density sufficient to RELIABLY kill a bird with the shot size being used is your absolute MAXIMUM range. If you're getting big gaps or a very sparse pattern, go the next tighter constriction. If you're getting blown patterns or patterns that are strung in one direction or another, then go to the next more open choke. Do this until you find your best patterns.
Have you Patterned your Shotgun with the combo that you hunt with?
Yes
Just started last year it helped me alot. Also I started shooting clays thrown by. Hand thrower. With the actual ammo and choke I was going to use. That made me feel much more confident.
Just picked up a new Franchi 3! Can’t wait to pattern this weekend before some early goose!
Yes I have I have always wanted to know exactly what my guns and bows are doing and capable of I always felt I owe it to whatever animal I'm hunting also that you for all your hard work on these amazing videos I'm a huge fan
Just got the franchi affinity 3.5 this year. Need to pattern test it soon!
Practice shooting the water!? Wow. Never thought of that! Great video man! It warms my heart just knowing this info is getting out there for people.
Yep, I see guys shoot at cripple ducks on the water, and I think ‘what kinda garbage is that?’ You can tell a lot from shooting the water.
@@SurvivingDuckSeason I need to do some of that testing for sure!
Couple of legends right here that are changing the way we hunt, and prepare for the hunt, for the better. Thank you both.
Great video, Joel!!! Back when the Mossberg 835 ultimag came out, I bought one. We had just started turkey hunting and we goose hunted a lot, so I thought the 3 1/2 chamber would really give me an advantage. Well, I struggled all goose season. I missed birds that I never would have missed with my trusty old Winchester 1300. On the first day of turkey season, I was walking back to the truck when a huge tom ran out of the weeds right in front of me. He stood there at 20yds, as confused as I was. I raised my gun and fired. Nothing. As he took off trotting straight away from me, I fired twice more--both clean misses. To add insult to injury, he stopped at 40 yds to look back at me, still confused. When I got home, I decided to pattern the gun. At 20 yds, the pattern barely hit an 8x12 sheet of paper. I had to get a large piece of cardboard for my next shot. The pattern was nearly a foot high and right!!! I don't blame the gun, we just weren't a good match. My cheek bone hit the stock in an odd manner, so I wasn't looking straight down the barrel. I traded it off asap and went back to hunting with my old 1300. I wasted a whole goose season and a huge longbeard because I was too lazy to pattern my gun!!! 😕🥵
A tough lesson! OUCH!! I’ve had my share of stuff like that! You never forget those kinda lessons, teacher!
As an avid shotgunner always interested in the "physics" behind the game, I will preface the post by saying your videos are, by far, done in the most scientific way possible, meaning attention to variables and controlling bias. To me, the most important message conveyed in this particular video is the explanation between Point of Impact (POI) and Point of Aim (POA). Our definitions are slightly different in that I consider POI as where a shooter actually shoots when he/she points the gun at a dot on a stationary patterning board and pull the trigger, much as you would if shooting a gamebird or clay going DEAD AWAY from you. That tells you where your gun shoots relative to how YOU mount, see and shoot. POA is when you "aim" the gun to make sure the barrels are true. This is particularly important when testing for proper "regulation" between the barrels of an OU or SxS. (And by the way, IMHO, you need more cast off on your shotgun as the distance to the left of your target was too much.) However, your message in this regard is excellent!
Where we differ in opinion is the value of THE DISTRIBUTION of pellets in the 30" circle. Chokes are important to allow maximization of the density of the shot cloud at whatever distance is best for the shotgun game being pursued (ie, skeet at 20 yards, ducks at 30-40, turkeys at 50+ etc.) However, again IMHO, a pattern is a two dimensional representation of a three dimensional phenomenon; namely THE SHOT CLOUD. 99% of the time a moving targets is moving THROUGH a cloud. Using your speeds in another video, a nine foot shot cloud passes a point in .012 second. A bird or clay crossing in front of you at 30 mph goes three feet (the width of an optimum pattern) in .068 seconds, therefore encountering roughly 1/2 of the shot cloud during its journey through it. To me, the "holes" in the pattern are meaningless to all but maybe avid trap shooters who encounter "dead away" clays fairly often. If the shot exited the barrel and all lined up in a plane and went down range together in that plane, it would be a different story, but alas, we know this doesn't happen.
Two empirical observations to support my point. First of all, if you've ever shot sporting clays, you've undoubtedly turned a clay literally into dust. You don't do this without a "cloud" of pellets. This happens when you've made a perfect shot at a fairly close distance (usually < 20 yards) and the pellets at the front of the cloud hit the clay and break it into a few pieces. As these pieces remain in the cloud, following pellets in the cloud smash these little pieces into smaller pieces and so on until there's nothing left but dust. If the pellets encountered the clay at exactly the same time (ie, in that aforementioned plane), there would be no way to "dust" the bird!
The second observation can be made at any sporting clays range. I've watched master class shooters using light mod chokes break edge-on crossing clays 10 or more straight times without missing. Heck, I can usually hit 7 out of 10 myself. Now, hang a clay target, edge on, from a string at 50 yards, step back with your modified choke and shoot at it. I'd bet you $100 you would break it 5 times out of a box of shells. Why? One, because the moving clay is passing through a CLOUD of pellets and the second, less important factor is that a spinning clay has centrifugal forces working on it that help it spin apart when cracked by pellets. Go shoot a load of 7 1/2 or 8 shot loads from your modified choke and see how many edge-on silhouettes of a clay you can draw in the gaps in even a nicely distributed pattern at 50 yards.
I invite all civil responses. Have a great day!
Joel- write a book!
Finally a video on how to pattern your shotgun the correct way. Well done
Thanks!
Have spent the past 45 years patterning every gun, load and choke I use to hunt and trap shoot with. Started with lead shot using shot buffeter and even cutting my own wads to achieve the best pattern for the ranges I am shooting. Lot's of hours shooting paper and counting holes to get my percentages. What chokes work best for each size of pellet out of each gun. Learning the importance of lengthening the forcing cone, back boring and the best length of choke tube for the smoothest taper and transition for the best patterns at all ranges. Modern guns come with most of that already done to them. I grew up with having to have all that done to your field guns. Gun fit is just as important because at the same time you are pattern testing you will find out if your choke tube is drilled properly and not off center. You find out if your gun is shooting high, low, left or right and by how much. Then modifications need to be made from there. Again, modern guns come with all those adjustments. Having the proper cast and drop for your body type. Most manufactures build guns for a person who is 5'-10" tall. Medium arm length and build. Nothing more important than gun fit because your eye is the rear site and it must be in the right place every time.
I'm one of those that has never patterned a shotgun and I've been gunning for close to 40 years. In the next week or 2 I'm finally going to do it thanks to you. Keep pumping out the fantastic videos, your teaching an old timer new things.
Thanks for sharing that! Good for you👍🏻you’ll learn something, for sure. You’ll come away confident with your previous choices or you’ll know you need to make a change.
I have enjoyed the series. As someone who handloads their own buckshot I love all things "shot" related. Growing up there were certain guns in my community that were just known to be "natural born killers". No matter who was using it, those guns just seemed to be more efficient. Most folks thought it was their pattern. And some of that was the case once folks started patterning their guns. But there still some that just seemed much more effective even though other guns shot similar patterns. As I got older and learned more about shooting I began to wonder if it was the "shot string" of that particular gun that made is so effective. Never really knew how I could test it but I am SUPER excited to watch your next video. Oh yeah, and any serious shotgun shooter should own a Lead Sled. I use mine way more patterning buckshot, turkey loads and buckshot.
Another very helpful video. As someone who didn’t get into waterfowling until they were mid 30s I appreciate you sharing all your knowledge and wisdom from time guiding and in the field. Keep up the good work Joel and crew!
Great thx for letting me know!
Great videos Joel! The production quality is excellent, great lighting and audio.
you my friend are dead on,Ive been reloading since I was a teenager and I've done a lot of patterning and you are right one must know there shotgun choke combo, fantastic work my friend very well done.
Absolutely love the info your putting out in these very helpful videos and can hardly wait for the next one !!!!!
Thanks Tim!
Great content. I’ll be the first to admit. I don’t pattern every year. Maybe every other. I did last year. I’ve been shooting boss 1oz 1/4, 2 3/4”, 5 shot copper plated bismuth starting last season. It’s deadly with a modified. My stock choke on my mossberg 835 loves this round. Right in the middle on hotness and the 2 3/4” helps with recoil. The copper plated bismuth is completely revolutionary. The plating keeps the ball shape better than some brands that don’t plate, they frisbee off instead of flying true. I found that patterning matters a lot, but you can easily go one choke size down if you move away from steel and use bismuth or tungsten.
One of the best series go on well done 🎉
Keep the videos coming Joel! Glad you're diving deep into this stuff. Great to know!
Really enjoying this series. It's always good to brush up on the fundamentals. Hitting what you point at is the difference between hunting and birdwatching
Right you are, Eric! Thanks!
This series has been fantastic! I started duck hunting two years ago and became addicted. Learning a lot from these videos, thanks for taking the time! Hoping someday to get to hunt with you.
I am anxious to see the next video! In order to save time, you may shoot one piece of paper several times f.e. 5-6 and see the density of your pattern. The most dense part will show the real centre of your pattern.
Thanks Joel, very helpful. Keep em coming.
I patterned my gun before I went to pass shoot skeet! It was very helpful ! Best skeet Dayi had!
Love this kind of content keep it coming
Great! Will do👍🏻
Excellent video. Only suggestion I have is to ignore percentages - they are meaningless. Instead, ensure you have a sufficient numbers of pellets within your 30” circle to ensure clean kills (I like to see at least 100 for large ducks and 140 for small ducks). Also, start patterning at the maximum distance you will actually be shooting birds (be that 30, 40, or 50 yards) rather than just sticking to 40 yards. Determine the most open choke that still provides sufficient pellet strikes to ensure clean kills. Doing this will give you the largest effective pattern possible at any range up to your maximum distance. Good hunting!
Interesting to see your videos. I have been patterning a shotgun for 20+ years. I have been shooting trap since 1982 and hunting ducks since 1972. You are spot on. I have always wanted shotguns that have adjustable stocks and chokes I "sight" in my hunting guns to have the same impact as my trap gun (some would argue that it would bee too high for a hunting gun, but it works great for me). My Browning A5, WInchester SX3 and Benelli SBE3 and Browning XT Trap Combo all have the ability to adjust the stock/comb/choke tube. Then I have patterned my steel shot shells out to 50 yards. I have found my Federal Black Cloud 1 1/8 ounce, 3 shot, 1635 fps only puts 1 or 2 pellets on a duck at 50 yards. Under 25 yards it works great. However, as I push beyond 25 yards, I need more shot like 1 1/4 ounce. I have never shot Boss shells, but I am now looking at buying a case, patterning them and trying them out. I could go on about choke tubes as I have used a micrometer to measure the inside diameter and found a great variation in what companies claim as Full, Mod, IC. I agree the real test is on paper. Keep the unbiased videos coming. Thanks
your videos are just awesome. im recommending these all the time to fellow hunters. thamk you for all your work and greatings from germany.
Great series!
Glad you’re enjoying!!
Thank you :) i am going Duck hunting for the first time this weekend Learning a lot from these videos :)
😀😀😀👍👍👍❤ Please see the next video on shot string length!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joel this info on shot string length needs to be in reloading manuals.
Mr. Diggweed said in an interview that he uses a full choke to lengthen the shot string and let's the target fly through the shot. I found that interesting after watching your shot string videos.
Thanks for your work Joel, I have learned a lot from you.
You’re welcome, Will! Thanks for the comment 👍🏻
Can you do a segment on hearing protection sometime? I've been hunting waterfowl for 20+ years and like your typical young person I haven't been using ear protection. I feel that my hearing is still quite good and would like to keep it that way. I'm most interested in the electronic ones that don't dampen all frequencies such as walkers game ear. I'm sure the cheap foam ones would do the job but half the fun of waterfowl hunting is listening their wings cut the air and calling.
Decibullz, Tetra, Axil all offer products that protect your hearing similar to the Walker Game Ear.
Some use different technologies, and are in different price ranges.
I personally got a pair of the Decibullz Custom Molded Percussive Shooting Filters last year. They work fine to cutoff muzzle blast but do muffle other sounds slightly. They retail for under $80, so a good entry-level product.
If i could advise you, I'd say pick what fits your budget today and wear it every time you shoot. If your ears still ring, or if you need to hear the ambient sound better, pick another product. YMMV. Good hunting
Great video! Loved your explanations keep up the great videos it’s been fun following along! Can’t wait for the next video!!
Enjoy and appreciate your latest series. I would Iike to here more results from your patterns and choke tube tests. I realize results will vary with different ammo, shot size , and weapons, but would like see your results. Especially after the pattern master video. Thanks again.
Watched all the videos extremely informative , have a question, you said patterning is important, which I have, besides much quicker is there a difference between patterning and tts targets and app ?
So good! Thank you for doing this for everyone!
You’re welcome! I appreciate it 👍🏻
Great video as always Joel!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Do you aim flat down the rib lining up both beads?
When we had to switch from lead in the 90's in England, we patterned the lead decoying load to find the width then with the steel; which were obviously much tighter so we had to use imp cyl chokes to get the same width. We then did the same with our flighting loads. That is why when the change came we were still shooting the same amounts of ducks, when everyone else was struggling. We spoke to some on the marsh and they were very P & OFF. YOU MUST DO IT! With different chokes.
Loving this series!
Awesome! Thanks Aaron 💪🏻
Your videos are excellent.
Thanks for all the info.
I hope this year will be the first year I get to go duck hunting. These videos are really helping me thanks!
#479
Hope it’s great for you. Thanks for the comment!
Enjoy your hard work. Thank you
Do you change chokes and take other chokes of different constriction with you hunting. I’ve always wanted to be able and change chokes hunting but walking in makes you consider weight carried. Really good video Joel and thanks for being so mindful about topic discussion points.
I do keep another choke in my blind bag - just in case. I have probably only changes out choke a handful of times in my whole life, while on a hunt.
I haven’t patterned this year but I’m shooting the same case of shells and chokes as last year
Howdy, where did you purchase the full size duck targets?
I have! It’s the same from last year. Same ammo and same choke. Boss shells and a pattern master
Awesome!
Man idk about y’all but that IC pattern at 40 was money😂
I always use a paper plate, I put a staple in the middle to aim dead center and hold the plate. I figure that is a good duck size and they are cheap. Great videos man.
Thanks Chris. Good idea!
dang you, you left me itching for the next video lol, thanks brother keep up the good work.
Part of my evil plan! HAHAHA!
What do you suggest if you shoot right handed but are left eye dominate?
Close your left eye maybe?
Great videos thank you.
I wanted to know do I have to use the same shells for point of impact verses point of aim as I am going to pattern with?
. I am using several gun
s and Boss shells could get expensive!
Considering a new shotgun just off the shelf, what pattern % should one expect? In other words if the gun is shot from a stable foundation, while sighting right down the rib with the bead just under target; should there be 50-50%, 60-40%, or what percent of pattern above and below target?
Should not one know what the gun does before adjusting for personal holding?
I shoot a trulock precision hunter skeet 2 in my browning bps. Stones em out to 40. I use that one choke only, just change the pellet size according to shot distances and bird size. 3’s or 4’s for teal and woodies, bb’s, 2’s for pass shooting geese and big ducks. 3’s for big ducks in close ranges.
I patterned mine at 30 yards, my usual distance, I'm not that great of a shot beyond 30. Carlson mid range and Boss, slightly better pattern than my factory improved cylinder and modified. Love these videos.
Awesome, thanks!👍🏻👊🏻💪🏻
Awesome job man
Thanks for watching!
It’s great to see the promotion of pattern testing as a tool to determine the effectiveness of any load and choke tube combination for our given bird hunting application. The only down side I take away from this video is that there is no meaningful information on minimum pattern density values (ie. min pellet strikes in 30” circle) to ensure clean and consistent kills. This is perhaps where scientifically developed lethality tables could be in my opinion quite valuable. The CONSEP data could potentially be a good starting point.
I've been shooting JEBs for about 10 years, how is the Muller compared to the JEBs in your opinion?
More great information... Blessings
So what's your go to choke & pellet size for boss ammo ? Let's say you was hunting north dakota lol
When patterning my SX4 the fiber optic sight tube fell out of the mount. Winchester sent me another sight for free. Then while hunting it flew out again while shooting at ducks. Have you had any problems like this w/ your SX4?
Yes. Same thing. I don’t need it. But it still feels like it should be there. 🤷🏻♂️
Not yet but I did enjoy this video 👍🦆
Well made video! Your POI would bug me enough to adjust it (but I get it that it's a personal preference) If shims won't do it, toss on a Beartooth comb.
As far as shot string on the water, I think you're seeing more of the bottom pellets hitting close and the top pellets hitting further away. I would like to see the shot string of bismuth.... Brister had his wife drive the paper at 40 mph while he shot the target to measure shot string... Maybe rig up a drone?
Love the content
Hi Joel, what dog training program or book or whatever do you recommend? I just got a new red lab puppy. Thanks in advance! 🦆
www.theretrievertrainer.com/freddy-king-training/
Great video
Good Vid as usual.
I think I patterned when I got my shotgun about 10 years ago, but surely the ammo has likely changed to some degree. The truth is I only shoot 1 maybe 2 boxes of waterfowl loads a year at this point and trying to justify purchasing different loads to see which patterns best is a tough consideration, especially because surely I'll fire a few shells from boxes that don't work great with my gun/choke and then I have this expensive ammo which doesnt work the best for me and need to try and pawn it off to friends.
No because I have such a hodgepodge of different Ammo because its all that was available
I think your right about the shot count with other hunting. However, still doesn’t make sense not to pattern your gun and fine tune your tools.
Agreed.
I have a beretta a400 extreme plus and shoot kent #2 steel. I am looking for a choke tighter than modified....what do i do?
buy a tighter choke. for example a full
@@charm2170 Hej there i would get a IM improved mod before you get the full choke. Especially if you shot steel shot. Some chokes are only designed for full choke when you use lead shot😃 some can but do your self a favor and check it before you pull the trigger
I like a 24” pattern with BBB or T at 60yd. Clean kills 75yd to 85yd.
One must take into account the size and weight of your load also, the manufacture to be consistent.
Have shot about 150 patterns with different chokes and steel shot.
💪🏻
Good info
Cheaper way to make a target is to use a large rectangular table cloth. Can get the at a dollar store for a dollar each and get 2 targets.
Great idea 💡
I am an advocate of matching the gun, the choke and the load for longer range waterfowl shooting. But a lead sled is not needed, nor is patterning loads for shooting less than 40 yards unless you are trying to get a more open pattern, If you want to see you impact point while shooting, why would you put your shotgun in a device for rifle shooting and get your head down on the gun and aim? Are you wing shooting from a rest? Go out on a low wind day and point the gun like you would shooting a bird.
I pattern my gun every year right before duck season
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Unfortunately the SX4 doesn't come with any stock adjustments. You can align your POA and POI accordingly. Most duck hunters I know don't know nearly as much about their shotgun or shooting as they should.
Maybe you could do an episode on "Have you fit your shotgun?" 😉
We did a whole section on gun fit on the first episode of this series. My 20 ga didn’t come with shims, but my 12 ga did at least come with some spacers that you can install between the butt plate and recoil pad.
You can use moleskin on the stock to tweak POI some.
@@DLCsince83 thanks for the tip👍🏻
@@SurvivingDuckSeason you're welcome! This will be my 2nd yr duck hunting, and your channel has helped a ton! The old boys club seems to keep a lot of info tight to the vest! Sporting clays has taught me a good deal about shotgunning. If you're ever in Memphis, let's bust some clays!! 👍
For a shotgun with no spacers or if I need just a slight tweek what i do is get a piece of light plasctic, say a milk bottle or detergent bottle , remove me Butt plate from the gun draw an outline on the plasctic cut it out , several of them in fact , So if I need cast off I cut the outline in half slip it into the stcok and plate on the left side , pattern tha If I ned more I double it up . If I nee to raise my POI I cut the lower part of the plastic and put that in . Even with my A400 shims I need more cast and I also have a piece of plastic at the neck of the stock right behind the action. Put it this way , not if but when I miss now it isnt the guns fault.
First and looking to try new ammo this year so not yet
Right on 👊🏻
@@SurvivingDuckSeason really need that video about shell length before Saturday if that's possible planning on heading to resupply and you've already got my mind questioning my thought process
Go make ya on Video…………I laughed so hard I shot sweet tea outa my nose….😂😂
😂
I patterned mine with my SX4 with factory and Muller Decoy and Passing. I used several different loads. I am not impressed with the SX4 on any of it. The SX4 is shooting way off of center, specifically, high and left. With no shims available for the SX4, I am less than impressed with Winchester right now.
This is interesting because all my shots when pattering I’ve been shooting high and left
Go to a gunsmith specializing in stock fitting. They will be able to make a shim to your needs.
Remember the 6 'P's; Proper Patterning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.
When’s the next video?!
If my shotgun hits the target is down.if will adjusted
LMFAOOOO "Make your own video"
I have pattern tested all the shotguns I’ve ever hunted waterfowl with and shoot factory chokes in most of them and if I didn’t like the pattern I try aftermarket. Pattern at 30-35 yards because I’m not shooting birds at that range even with a 10ga. I am guilty of not testing before hunting them and changing loads
Live by pattern not speed 😊
A good way to test if your shotgun fits to you is put full choke, take clay cartridges and shoot 4 reactive shots from 10 yrds to large (47x47 or preferably 60x60 inch) paper where is five about clay size, numbered spots similar pattern as a dice. Shooter takes ready position: gun buttstock to hip level (like international skeet shooting) and friend tells randomly to whitch number you shoot. Shooter makes realtively quick mount to cheek and shots immediately without correcting mounting. After each shot shooter loads gun again and takes new ready position. When four numbers is shot you can draw your average point of impact to last one (or shoot aimed shot to the last one).
If there is systematical difference to some direction stock needs to adjust. If impacts are randomly different directions, you need to train mounting your gun (or stock might be too short). If impacts are down gun stock is too low (too much drop). If they are too high drop is too low and if impact are to left or right stock has too little or too much cast. Also too long stock can make impacts go to left. This shoud repeat 3 to 5 times to get good result. Four inch difference from 10 yrds is over feet from 40 yrds. Some shooters like to have their shotgun shoot a little bit over poa.
The red headed white boy said make your own video. 😂
You know that’s right! Haha!
rhagen56!!
You make great videos. Learning to shoot is the most important thing about killing birds
Shoot your gun so much and practice pass shots on targets a lot.
You get where you hit what you're eyes are focused on.
I'm focusing on duck's bills.
Lots of head shots.
Practice until it hurts.
Recover. Go shoot some more
😂😂
Muller is not as good as you say. I'm very unhappy with customer service. Carlson chokes are way better and better customer service. Mullers sales rep is an idiot
Doin all this tomorrow because of this series 🫡🤌🏼
And then i seen how much it entails and the money involved… no wonder no one ☝️ does this … its not worth the time and money involved 🤷🏽♂️ frankly
@@jonnykilroy2345 do you duck hunt?
Patterning a shotgun should ALWAYS include shooting for your poa/poi determination, then from your closest expected range to your furthest (taking into account the lethality of the shot!). You MUST know what your patterns look like up close as well as out there at 40 yards, plus. The point where you lose pattern density sufficient to RELIABLY kill a bird with the shot size being used is your absolute MAXIMUM range. If you're getting big gaps or a very sparse pattern, go the next tighter constriction. If you're getting blown patterns or patterns that are strung in one direction or another, then go to the next more open choke. Do this until you find your best patterns.