My brother as well. Took him this year to go and play phantasy online ep 1 & 2 to take he's time and enjoy the game vs every other game he played on his ps5 and xbox just to rush them.
I've never understood this point by Asmongold that everyone tries to finish the game as fast as possible and not "play the game". I don't know anyone who does that. Everyone of my friends plays the game to enjoy the game. But maybe this is true for the younger generation, or maybe it's true for streamers? But it's definitely not true for many players. There is not even that many good single player games coming out at once so I have plenty of time to finish a game on my own pace before another one is out. The point what I think is true that people go to see guides too easily, so it becomes a chore of watching a youtube video one after another just to help you find that one collectible that you are missing.
I don‘t write a lot of comments nowadays, but I had to stop and comment on this. Obviously part of what you‘re saying is growing up, we find enjoyment in different parts of the game than we used to. But a ton of it comes through the internet making everything so accessible. I remember how back in the day I would read through a games manual, the backprint of the cover and through magazines whose articles were based on speculation. Today if I want to find out about a game I just search for the games name, adding in the word „review“ or „gameplay“. That instant accessability took away most of what made games so special back then. I mean I‘m sure I talk for the most of us when I say that as a child I used to run around the map, not just in WoW but any open world game, and try to uncover secrets - even if they weren‘t existent. I let my mind run through all these expectations, thinking about what could be around the next corner or what the footprints I found could lead me to. But now most of that is gone, you just try to minmax the entire playthrough, not going on the path feels like a waste of time. Recently I‘ve been taking my hands off multiplayer games and just tried some singleplayer RPGs, without looking anything up on the internet. It makes games way more fun again and if I somehow find that same feeling in online games aswell someday again I‘ll be glad to return. This is just a heads up for people who feel like they‘ve lost the enjoyment that games brought them back then: Go into games blindly, stay blind until you tell yourself you‘re done! It‘s even more fun if afterwards you learn about stuff you missed or realise you‘ve actually found all secrets. You‘re way more proun to finding little easter eggs or anecdotes and you can enjoy the world building and atmosphere to a way higher degree! Cheers lads
Truth, I usually like his videos but his opinions weren’t with it on this one “I’m gonna let him finish” pauses again right away and explains how it’s a bad take lol
Classic was more about the whole experience from level 1 to 60 ... While retail is more about endgame only.... and that whole experience is what makes classic the better world imo.
Also I feel like classic is focused more on banding together worh other people to overcome enemies. Where as retail makes every player the main character that is the world's only hope for survival and noone else can do what you can. Apart from the tens of thousands of other players
Everything in vanilla forces you to play as a community together, I think wow died when dungeonfinder/cross server became a thing there is no community after that point.
One of the weirdest aspects of WoW and most modern MMORPGs is that they treat leveling as some kind of obligatory chore that you need to pass through in order to get to the "real" game, which leads to the devs struggling to fill endgame with enough shit for the players to do, and lot of endgame-only systems to further make your character more powerful. It's a really weird design choice, I'm not sure if I can think of any other game genre that works like this. Why aren't those systems and leveling just baked into each other? Why aren't more endgame gamemodes baked into the leveling?
That's what I love about classic, TBC and Wrath (to a certain degree). They treat the leveling as a part of the journey, as a part of the game, not just til obstacle to rush. Tbh, I think this is more because of the mentality of the players, but it seeped into the actual game aswell. Leveling in retail is not particularly fun, and I think that is because you just walk over everything. You are a GOD compared to all the mobs and enemies. You also don't really play your class untill about lvl 40! In classic, it felt like you got more and more tools as you leveled, fleshing out your character's moveset. In retail, you are given random pieces of the spec you want to play untill you finally have enough pieces to get a semblance of understanding of how the class actually plays!
No one game was ever meant to be played every day for 15+ years. Of course it becomes less fun over time, after a point you're just chasing the feeling your originally got from playing it. As someone who mostly plays single player games I don't feel like games ever stopped being fun, there's always cool new games coming out, you just need to keep an eye out and look beyond just whatever aaa games are being hyped.
Exactly. This whole sentiment is rediculous honestly. The first time you try something, you aren't gonna know wtf is going on and then the more and more you do that thing the more experience you get. Like.... duh?? Eventually you will "know" the more optimal ways to gain exp, or doing damage, etc. That gained knowledge in turn will lead you in the way you play that game. Mastery can also be fun too, people forget about this.
I haven't played a AAA game in so long I don't know what the last one was. Still often feel like games have lost their appeal, but I can recognize that it's ME that changed, not games. Some of the stuff I've played recently is among the best stuff to ever come out, but I can't JUST play it. I am playing, feeling guilt that I am not working, or feeling guilty I should be spending the time with my GF, or worrying about my career trajectory. Or when it's a real banger and I AM just playing, I play obsessively, forget everything else, and then actually start doing harm to my life lol.
Dragonflight's writing doesn't feel like characters within the world expressing themselves. It feels like the characters are just kiosks or robots placed in the world to vent the collective daddy issues of the writers.
Only bad thing about DF is really dull story, and it's a killer thing for me tbh. It's physically hurts to see what have WoW story become after we had Legion, which is one of the hardest and coolest things of all WoW story-based.
Depends on the game mate. If you play a Sp or coop game,sure, you decide. If you wanna have even a small chance of seeing all the content and grow in power in a MMO...you follow the meta, or quit. @@jestbone89
@@jestbone89That is not true tho, if you do not follow the meta, you have to count on EXTREME game knowledge in order to even think about winning anything past a certain level.
God l remember being 36 and going in circles mining iron and mithril, killing ogers as a DUAL WIELDING FEMALE DWARF WARRIOR , grinded up to 42 making stuff(miner/blacksmith) selling trash , sending the items for DE to my paladin alt. And by 42 l had enough for the skill and my ram. Then went to stranglethorn , finished quests and killed gorillas, while mining mithril and doing the quest for the black smith hammer. Did it to like 50 , then started doing Zul Farak. Un'goro sucked me in to for 8 lvls. Then l tried to do plague lands kill 20 quests and kept dieing (had lvl 30-40 gear) . So for teo days l grinded thorium and made myself the full imperial set and the highest lvl weapon l could get from the AH . And then l went with "the boyz" on an 11 hour (with dinner break and a run outside to repair) run of the city of black rock. It was so cash, l had dreams about running it that night. And better yet 2 days later we found out there were quests all around the world for that place , do we went in again and again. Then we did sunken temple with its "feathers quest" , started help friends run lower lvl charas or alts . And then the mind blow...we were told that there were 10 man dungeons , so we had to extend our group from 7 to 10.
Quest 64, It may had tons of rooms for no reason but at least the rooms made the world feel slightly bigger than a world with three buildings and they call it a town.
most games have like 20 buildings of which 3 you can go into, if thier is a building in oblivion, you can go into it....even games everyone love like witcher 3 is terrible at this
my uncle is a starfield dad lmao, he told me he's enjoying the game and i respected that, i'm not going to shit on a game someone else enjoys even though i might have a different pov on the mechanics and development behind the studio. he's well older and remembers playing board games before consoles were the go to
The system that Bethesda made with Oblivion was great and really intuitive to use. I've seen a bunch of non-gamer types really get into it and enjoy those games. I just wish they would stop reskinning Oblivion since its been almost 20 years
In Dragonflight, the world designers tried to invoke that wide open feeling. That was a refreshing change from Shadowlands and BFA being tiny constrained amusement parks. However, the game design was mostly the same which meant you were the major champion being ushered to and fro. Get that next quest, run here, 10 more checklist quests. Every single nook had a rarespawn or a quest. This conflicted with the wide open feel. And once you are rushed to max level it gets even worse as world quests bloat up the entire screen. Also towns being nonexistent or there just to facilitate the player's journey. It's just not a world. And as far as RP is concerned, I think they missed a MAJOR win by designing the drac'thyr the way that they did. They could have had them be proper quadrupedal dragons with humanoid visage forms. Like every dragon in the game before DF. It's a non-issue to come up with some excuse for why they may be smaller than other dragons, or forced to be in their visage in combat. In addition, such a playable race could have had a cool lore background, such as being the new generation of Black dragons being led by Wrathion. Add to the race at a later date by putting in the option to create dragons in other dragonflights. Make the home areas of each dragonflight somewhere that players could come together in. Just my two cents on it....
Whenever a fkn NPC calls me Champion, I swear the god my rage meter goes from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds. I just cant hear it anymore. And thats mostly because of BFA story, then they stopped with it in Shadowlands and now they brought it back in Dragonflight -.-...
I almost couldn't finish the DF leveling. It was so boring; it was just a chore with no risk or danger. Not even once did I come close to dying, even though I pulled like 10 mobs at a time. I just can't take the world or quests seriously if there is no danger to it. When it's like that the leveling is almost pointless.
Absolutely correct. I was wondering why Dragonflight didn't click with me... and I was like "the world feels so expansive and open, why do I feel so constrained?" ... and it is the screen bloat. All the quests, objectives, and checklists make the world feel so claustrophobic, when it should open and free.
Reminds me of Morrowind vs Oblivion. Morrowind used to have a journal which u had to use to navigate places and Oblivion just has quest markers. I loved Morrowind's journal ngl.
I don't remember who made the video, but Bethesda has basically replaced the old audience with every new Elder Scroll game since Daggerfall. Loved the insane world size despite procedural generation making it bit bland in detail? Have a hand-crafted Morrowind instead. Loved the deep RPG mechanics/lore/story of Morrowind? Have Oblivion where they've all been dumbed down. Loved Oblivion as a great balance between RPG/accessibility/fun whatever? Have Skyrim where everything is even more dumbed down.
+ works 8 hours or more per day for 6 days a week + Have 5-7 hours of sleep. that leaves like around 7-9 hours of freedom + sometimes weekend will just become a regular tuesday. + game companies competing by putting release time close to each other. And more good games come out frequently (including indie). yeah, i didn't even realize when i've started to play for finish the game instead of play for fun.
That's the real problem of our society, working 8 hours or more per days is clearly an addiction, it's dangerous for your sanity and life, and you have no time to relax or have fun for something else... ( and you are under-paid so you are poor )
Won't tell you how to live your life but I highly suggest aiming for 7 to 8 hours a night. 5 hours of sleep will come back to bite you BAD in the future.
I just loved being max level and gear then waiting outside low level instances and run low levels through them. Getting them level ups and gear and completing quests for them was really fun for me. When they gave us multi mounts, man did I love going to low level areas and taking them to cities to get the FPs. I would even give them some gold. That (for me) was A LOT of fun.
9:00 It is and it isn't. The thing about classic wow and burning crusade was that there was this sense of mystery, the world was bigger than there were quests for it, and you had to explore and find out what to do. There were several landmarks and places, even secret places to find that players wished there was something there to do (like the corrupted ashbringer quest added later on). It was an obscure world to run around and discover. Now not even new areas feel like this because they are too small, not mysterious at all and packed full of quests and npcs making it annoying.
True. I often explore outside of quest lines and grind xp/resources spots to see what's out of there, to feel word and chill out. To have my own adventure into unknown, not told by any quest givers or task.
The problem with Dragonflight story isn't that it's not universe ending. It's just a soft story about family and love. It's still a story on rails with you still being basically "the chosen one".
The problem becomes less controllable when the average person you run into within a community expects you to be min/maxing. Which is very common for most games now
I miss the days when I was 20, too. 2008 was good, everything was new, I was just a student in university, I had less responsibilities and more free time. Obviously it was fun, not only wow and videogames, but life in general
just point yourself a exact time to play games a specific hour without phone or alt+tab. Just play the game, even if the world turns on fire you play the game at that hour. just like we did when we were kids, we didn't care about homework or dishes, or clean our rooms, or even if the world turned on fire. We played the game, now as adults, we need to do the same, but at a specific hour
Asmon underestimating the amount of new players that picked up WoW for the first time with classic (including myself), and had that feeling of being engrossed for the first time since leaving Lumbridge in 2006
React content: Imagine interrupting someone in the middle of their point and then argue against an unfinished point that you fabricated in your own head and your opponent is incapable of correcting you, and you have thousands of people clap and say you're smart for winning the argument. That must make you have a very skewed view of reality
Even when everyone came back to 'no changes' classic, they loaded up guides telling them exactly what to do for multiple days of playtime and then after turbo-sweating the min-max process complained that there is nothing to do
Honestly man, don't watch playthroughs of games. People do that so much these days and you completely lose the sense of discovery. Back in the day all you could go by was the cover art and if a game was good it blew your mind.
I miss when I could search on the internet without being asked "were the results satisfactory to you?" I miss just having to "push start" to play a game without being forced to have an email, wi-fi, x-account for the corporate that made the game. DLC's used to be "expansion packs" that actually expanded the game where DLC is just giving us what we were supposed to get in the first place. The list goes on.
I recently got back into WoW, and the main thing i noticed is that nothing you do feels like it matters. Like before even while leveling you had these personal goals of yours like getting a mount or even completing the that class quest for warrior, you will always remember that. What does the same thing in retail wow, nothing everything is fleeting and forgettable, there are just not many experiences in the game. Even after playing classic after years i felt the same stuff, the world felt more relatable just by making the leveling slower you were stuck in a zone for a longer time you started apreciating living in that world. Now you're zooming through the place achieving absolutely nothing. When you get an item piece you don't even care. Before when you get something good while lvling you would know, even raiding. Now the world of warcraft just doesn't feel like a world anymore. It's a themepark for quick dopamine fixes, with no real goals in sight.
@@ParabolicLabs Hes either ignoring that the original video creator was talking about console games, or was just too ignorant to realize the creators point and brought up something irrelevant to have a W in his reaction. While he is correct that even back in the arcade days they were trying to milk consumers for as much money as possible, there was also a period of time where games were just made to be fun and appeal to a lot of people. Both of them can be correct but he thinks only he can be, otherwise he would realize bringing up MK2 and arcade games as rebuttal to the statement that "There was a point in time where devs made games for fun" isnt even an argument.
I think a big issue is that gamer perception and game design are being conflated. I think games have always been designed (for the most part) to be GAMES. There has always been win conditions and built in rewards for proper play. There is always a game tree. All of this talk about exploring quest 64 (not considered to be a great game) is more about psychology and society and less about actual game design. Yes, there is obviously an intersection between game design, psychology, and society- but if you played quest 64 for 20 years you'd eventually see it for what it is, rather than some mystical experience that isn't a game but a "world".
Typical Asmon, watch the video when he first time in his life takes a look at the Star Citizen Squadron 42 video. Not even 5minutes in the video, he starts explaining shit to the viewers. He always has that smudge look on his face before hes about to lore dump you about stuff he has no idea about.
7:21 - "This is the same thing as like good CGI, where like you don't notice good CGI because it's supposed to be invisible? Well, I don't think you notice good game design because it's also supposed to be invisible." I think FromSoft games are an excellent example of this. Elden Ring is packed with good game design from corner-to-corner of its massive, open world, yet it all feels so organic and almost unintentional.
Also packed with reused enemies and animations from 2010. I think it's a great game, but partially because there weren't a lot of other good games recently.
I put 150+ hours into my first Elden ring playthrough when it came out and explored so much that I haven't needed a second playthrough yet. But I do think the game could have tried something better with the combat instead of Dark Souls 3 with jump attacks and more weapon arts, especially after how fun Sekiro was. I just get a little bored dodging/playing defensive 90% of the time sitting there waiting for a .5 second window to hit an enemy. Playing ranged wasn't improved much either. Sekiro was a great mix of offense and defense
@@АрсенийСмирнов-ю8к Honestly who cares about that? Id take a genuinely fun game made for players to enjoy made with reused animations over a "$300 million budget everything brand new" game thats literally just a store front to shove MTX down your throat like the vast majority of AAA games are nowadays.
The theme of the video: "If not manged, players will optimize fun out of the game". If a dev panders to this mentality, instead of actively fighting it, you end up with an 'tism simulator bereft of any joy that isn't a laundry list of 'raids', 'runs' and farming. Where content is just window dressing for 'le number go big'.
@@kekelapp0r Well, the game incentivized the playerbase to optimize the fun for decades, it's unreasonable to expect that playerbase can just instantly go back
It is a war between role-playing immersion and efficiency of reward acquisition. Some people only care about the latter. Stripping classes of any identity, teleporting people directly to dungeons, portals in major cities, flying mounts, etc are all examples of catering that the latter.
The moment I gave up on wow achievement completion was so refreshing. I log in, do whatever I want, log out easily. I don’t care to collect mounts, there’s just no point. After my gear grind, I either play an alt or chill with some guild members. As a kid, the world was mind blowing. But nowadays it’s nice to see once but I usually lose interest in exploring after my 2nd character
I mean a big part of the lack of min maxing in classic days was it was the inability to data mine. Computers sucked, connections sucked, so no one really knew how to itemize etc. There was thottbot back when which was a first step and insanely popular. “Discord” was basically team speak and ventrillo.
The best example of Blizzard giving us stupid directions and ruining our characters roleplay and even their own, was when horde Druids had to attack the fucking tree and kill NPCs of the faction they are considered the "commander" of in Legion/BFA. That shit was honestly the dumbest thing in WoW ever, not to mention how the whole thing in general was stupid when we could see that Sylvanas was obviously the bad guy in the story and we still had to commit genocide as a Horde Player even if our headcannon was "this guy has no problem with the alliance".
He's so on the money about D4 dads. I know several guys in their late 30's, and early 40's who are playing Diablo for the first time because it's on a console. They love it.
I never was a console guy, but the older I get the more I understand the appeal. See, I'm 36 and when I come home from work I don't want to sit at a desk. The couch and some random playstation or xbox game has become way more relaxing. Also shoutout to the steamdeck and a bunch of good roguelike games like Balatro or Hades. In terms of fun such stuff is head and shoulders above WoW raid night after work...yuck.
if you dont care acout the company behind it, the greedy Store and other games like it on the market..it isnt such a bad game. I mean,if your naive enough 🤷
FFXIV does a good job of promoting the play for fun mentality. For one there's a lot more to the game than gearing up your character and raiding, most of the content in FFXIV doesn't make your character stronger and therefore isn't required. Even the most difficult content in the game only rewards cosmetics so there's no need to clear it asap. Gearing up is very simple and you're hard capped on how much you can do every week, the amount of time needed to spend to reach this cap is pretty low. There's nothing like set bonuses or trinkets or legendaries to chase after. If you get unlucky with drops you still get currency to buy the same gear. Players are on a much more level playing field overall, there's a lot less competition to get in groups. When it comes to the raids themselves mechanics matter a lot more than gear, practice runs where players have no intention of clearing and are only getting used to the mechanics are commonplace. There are fewer bosses, little to no trash, and the majority of raid content is easy. The most difficult raid content that rewards gear upgrades consists of 4 bosses every 8 months with no trash, and it's close to heroic raid difficulty in WoW but more punishing. That said if you don't enjoy the rest of what FFXIV has to offer it can get real boring.
Yeah my problem with FF14 is two things. 1) That no matter what people say about it, 90% of the story I could give 0 fucks about. It's just more annoying exit custscene spamming (unless I can't even do that and have to wait) to get to do some boring "talk and sit at the next unvoiced cutscene" quest. I've made it to Stormblood and my brain is so fried that I just sit in Limsa and procrastinate doing my relics instead of even thinking about workin on story. 2) If you like FF14 pve good on you! But as someone who plays the most brain dead retail specs and loves classic WoW, a minimum of 3 HOT BARS PER JOB is crazy compared to my 6 TO 8 buttons MAXIMUM (typically including macros). It just doesn't give that feel like when I played GW1 or Classic WoW and the whole community complained that there should be even more buttons from what I see normally
I think everyone keeps forgetting about one key ingredient: Exploration Games that are supposed to have a lot to explore just became linear. Like what do you explore in retail nowadays? Main Story finished, going back to mythic dungeons and raiding. No drifting off the main path. Imagine why games like Genshin Impact come out on top of anything else. There's a lot to explore and the game even leads you into wanting to explore. In the past we had classic WoW which was the pinnacle of exploration. Or even think about Skyrim. You never run out of content to explore.
When I'm looking to play a game for "fun" I play random games with my friends, the fun is the social side and the game just facilitates stuff to laugh over. Games are the new version of cinima.. If I want a great story with amazing characters I'll go to a game now rather than a movie.. And if I want to play something that rewards me over time and feels like I'm progressing each time I log on.. I'll play an mmorpg. This isn't unique to just games, it's all media.. It's just how adults do things lol
Times change. We've explored all there is to know, the knowledge is plentiful, nothing surprises us or makes us excited, it's a treadmill now. I miss the days exploring zones for the first time, getting the onyxia drop on my 18th birthday, or running with a fantastic guild. Chasing that high again is nigh impossible now.
literally had to rewind to understand wtf he was talking about so, the guy in the vid didn't mentation arcades at all, where asmondgold got "mortal combat 2" from when no mention of arcades specifically was made already has me hesitant to trust his word, he says "the arcade point wasn't good" when the video made no mention of arcade games in that part of the video is baffling as it feels like he did not listen at all and it makes it hard to really follow asmond's opinions on this
@@francoc.8567 yep, it affects all youtubers, why consider the possibility of being wrong when you can just ignore the criticisms and only look at the thousands of dumb teens validating your opinion
Personally I hate these new "games". Most especially multiplayer games. I can have fun playing them, but then once it becomes obvious that money is all they care about, that satisfaction I had diminishes. I miss when game developers had fun making their games, making experiences that they expected their players would love to play, not held back by unfair paywalls. Paid DLC was the beginning of this whole mess, but it was reasonable. Now, they want you to pay for expiring battle passes, which is just their way of milking the customer on a game they'll replace with an even more expensive lackluster version the next year. A lot of indie developers tend to make those great games that are genuinely fun nowadays. AAA studios with malicious publishers are doing everything they can to ruin it for the end-user and milk them dry.
"Making a game for the fun of it" - this is exactly why I dedicated two years of my life to create this pixel rpg, with an open world to just explore, and figure things out by yourself. I have been playing wow since eu beta back in 2004, and I really miss the old days game style, this is why I decided to just create a game by myself ^^
Honestly, if you didn't get to experience gaming through the 90s early 00s, you missed out on the core of gaming without much assistance. No game is hard today due to the fact you can find all the min max options of the game.
"less flashy lights" dude, every fight in retail could give me a freakin stroke, just watch some raid of bg videos, you could get a epileptical meltdown from just one second of it. I miss simple spells and armor. The dude with somewhat "flashy" gear was instantly recognisable back then. Today everyone is a freakin disco ball.
This is why you do the world ending scenario at the end of the game, then do a time skip of 100 years and start fresh. You fought the great big bad that could destroy the world... and won! This sounds like the intro to an anime of an OP protagonist. Like even if there are a bunch of unfinished stories the next generation of Heroes will take care of it!
@jesseperez4185 yeah some of these threat surpass the lifetime of man or orc! Some take 100 to 1000 year naps! We saved the kingdom, the continent, the knowed world. Let me enjoy my loot, flex on some bitches, build a dynasty and retire!
It's hard to get out of the min/max mindset when it feels so beneficial, or is sometimes even required, in these games. I noticed this happening to me about 24 years ago in Everquest. I became so obsessed over levels/DPS/gear/efficiency/ect that I started to lose sight of the game, lose interest in the game, lose interest in just having a good time with the friends I made in there. When I first started to realize it I tried to slow things down, go back to exploring and enjoying all the little things. After a bit I tried looking for gear that had goofy effects or effects that changed how I would normally play my character. Usually you had to camp mobs for hours or even days to get some items. Thanks to that inconvenience I thoroughly explored that zone, found lots of hidden tidbits, and even became good friends with someone else who was camping that mob. Unfortunately I got pulled back into min/maxing pretty quickly because it's just too important in so many of these games. We are supposed to enjoy the journey but we end up speeding through it to reach the finish line as soon as possible. Once you reach the finish, what do you usually think/feel? I'm usually filled with disappointment... "It's over already? What do I do now?"
1996, min maxers exist 2006, min maxers exist "in 2006 i was not a min maxer, so games were different" How about in celebration of you becoming more self-conscious (not an attack, games caused this in me too), also police your own decision making by not participating in unfun activities ? So good old days can return in 2024, too. It's not the game. It's the player. It's all a mindset. HAVE FUN !
I really agree with you. Too often I've seen people even try and imitate min-maxxers fail and then blame the game itself. When they could have taken a passive talent or playstyle (and likely do better). Maybe they could do a season or two where they only play casually. People do this all the time with so many things in real life like sports, travelling and other hobbies. More people need to learn to do this with WoW. I do think a big part of it does also tie in with a lack of 'casual' creators and hope to see more of them in the future.
This reminds me of when I was playing starsiege tribes. I ran a tribe (guild) and at one point I told some other guild leaders I was getting bored. One of them asked me when the last time I actually played was. I than realized I hadn't played in months I was spending all my time managing the tribe.
I've always felt these are player driven issues... I've always played for fun and once I'm not having fun, I do something else... I tried to push through it in the past with vanilla wow in 2004-05, but I became miserable at how boring the grind was to level up, so naturally I quit.
Im annoyed when people think its just nostalgia. I never played WoW until 2019 classic, and i loved it. I leveled every class to 60 because i wanted to try everything.
His point was when wow came out people played the game for fun not to min max. After a few years people started playing the game like it was there job. I started late and by then people would check my item score before a dungeon and just boot me from the group. No one wanted to help anyone new, just grind grind grind. That was my experience with wow.
I felt much of the same and went and bought that abomination 'Wc3 Reforged' to see if the custom games scene was still alive. It is, and I've had fun for a few weeks in a row now. Just join a random map and play around, and the option for sweaty gaming exist in the normal mode. Hope Microsoft can lend some resources to pull reforged back up to the old standard.
There are still plenty of custom maps releasing and being updated for WC3. It is also very easy to turn off the newer graphics, and encouraged for less bugs and issues.
honestly i think bg3 is great to train your mentality to switch from a tryharder mode to an explorer mode, it really helped me to let wow go for a bit and now I'm approaching the last part of wow with much more ease
You can never put original Wow back in the bottle. That was the best time to be a gamer in the history of being a gamer. World of Warcraft felt like playing in the Matrix and everyone was bad but no one cared. It really owned. The only way it could happen again is it they finally invest like, a fully VR sword art online type world. Nothing else will bring that level of novelty and enjoyment again, game wise.
@@PelosiStockPortfolio ya dude dozens of people feel the same. Millions however do agree classic wow as colossal mark on the mmorpg game genre, to this day the 20 yr old game can stand the ground against most new mmorpgs that launch and die lol.
@@PelosiStockPortfolio I think the main problem was that no one played those games and they were for people who never went outside (which is fine if that's your thing) but most people liked how you could play Wow and also have like, a partner, and life goals. As Rickroll said, it's the only successful MMO 20 years later.
I recall that I was renting a room at a dad's house, and this was around where Battlefront 2 and its crap lootboxes were going on. Now, this dad told me he was excited about the game, so I told him that it was a bad idea to support games doing those awful practices, and all he said was something along the lines of "But I am a Star Wars fan, so I don't care, I am just going to play the story and enjoy it." I thought he was weird and unreasonable at the time, but now I get it. I play Diablo 4 and WoW at a slow rate because I find the games fun. I didn't grind to level 100 when D4 came out, I wanted to wait for the first season before attempting (and failing in the end as it was too grindy) and I recall everyone complaining about doing the renown again and about all the nerfs... that didn't affect me or my enjoyment. And for WoW it is similar, I set some goals (mostly getting raid gear of a tier that I think looks cool, but never mythic), spend my time on those goals and then put the game to the side until the next patch/expansion. Of course, both of these games can be better, and it seems they are going in the right direction... might be copium, but I have hope :)
Said it many times now, the levelling and the world is the MMORPG part of WoW, people rush through it to get to end game which is basically a multiplayer (not an MMO) game with a sub and most multiplayer games don't ask for a sub.
0:43 "I know an example of an arcade game that was designed to keep people spending quarters. Therefore, your entire statement about games being made to simply enjoy them for what they are is totally and utterly false."
I think there are a lot of people with vanilla WoW nostalgia who could really benefit from playing some D&D or other tabletop RPG. Computer RPGs were originally designed after TTRPGs, and especially the MMOs with all the "exploring the world and doing dungeons with a group of 5 friends". Seriously, if you miss this stuff and you've never tried TTRPGs, check them out. I'm not sure it will work for you, but it can.
@@Wockes If you found guilds and made friends with random people back in vanilla, then chances are you're going to do fine with (half)random people in a ttrpg club. Also, if you have at least 1 like-minded friend, you can show up together, and you'll know at least one person at the table. That's much better. I play at a club, new people show up once in a while, it works alright.
You know you grew up when Asmon tells the story that while his friends were having a chill he was grinding irrationally and he had lvl60 and epic mount and you look at him with pity.
As a few other comments have said.....it's all in how you play the game. A lot of games ARE fun but sometime it is the players that take the fun right out of it with the "we must complete x objective as fast as possible with the best possible setup or we are not having fun!!!" THAT is what is killing your fun. Take a moment, slow down and play the game the way you would like to play it, fuck the meta.
Indeed in WoW since that was the example, you can spend ur time exploring the world, it's not like u can't just do it right? Ppl just choose not to, you don't need to do Heroic Raids every tier u can go RP if u want even like do what u enjoy in the game
I don't really understand the problem though. As a kid a game with purposelss/badly designed areas also bored me the same it does as an adult. Maybe I'm just an alien lol.
I disagree, there are games, including old ones that still encapture me. It doesn't happen when graphics are top tier. It happens when the atmosphere of the game is done well. The soundtrack and artistic design of the environment. Examples. Listen Free Fire Zone - Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee Or any abe's soundtrack while watching the images of the place in which the soundtrack plays in. Or Teldrassil - Original Wow Music Everything fits well to the design. It's all about sound design and aesthetics of the surrounding world that makes the game feel magical. Heck... even in morrowind... sound of a rain while watching the nightsky... It hits different.
The problem with the big "save the world" story arcs is that almost all of the quests you do are in support of discovering what big bad is happening, but you can just skip the whole story (including in dragonflight) to just learn it all in a single raid or a handful or quests before the raid, because the developers now that most people skip them. Its a key component that turns the game into "hurry and wait" for endgame. I never played OSRS (just runescape then) until recently, and I am enjoying it a lot now just exploring haunted mansions, salting hides for deranged museum curators, etcs. I like that the objectives are small and relatable. Saving the world is fun sometimes. How many gods do you have to kill before it feels like your shopping for cereal? I would say about two.
Yesterday I was levelling my Mag'har Orc Arms Warrior in WoD zones that was max level in BfA that had starter endgame gear back then and was parked since SL release. That guy had pathetic squished to the ground gear that the gray items that dropped from weak outdoor mobs were 50+ item levels higher than my current equipped gear. I always love when I have characters like this and then get the first green item that has a massive upgrade to my equipped gear and feel the power difference. I levelled him all the way to DF (which was 9 easy levels away) and didn't manage to replace all items so when I hit the dragon isles I started doing WQ for 350 ilvl gear that replaced my 85 ilvl gear with Azerite traits on them, and got that massive power difference satisfaction. After I got up to speed, I just went to Valdrakken and put on a cool orcish transmog and a title and just RP walked around to areas with players and saluted fellow warrior and horde players and did some RP for like 2 hours and the fun I had doing that was more than what I had gearing my max level alts. Once I get the huge power difference from hitting gearing breakpoints in the game (new xpac, max level, new season, etc.) it doesn't feel fulfilling to me to upgrade 5 ilvls or 2% more power. Moving on to a different activity is more fun to me than grinding gear for a tiny upgrade so I can do a slightly or even significantly harder content that has a chance to make me 5% stronger than what I am currently am. It is a matter of perspective of how you play the game, yes the game design sometimes forces you to do specific content and not do others, but that is not the case for DF, which was not the case for Shadowlands and BfA, even legion had that, but it was more enjoyable and fun. Most of the people who complain about the game and lead to what happened in BfA and SL is the ones who sit 16 hours a day grinding M+ and Arenas and then wont have anything to do. I started to enjoy the game more when I stopped trying to minmax.
I think the gear jump dopamine just hits at different levels of gameplay. I've recently levelled a hunter to 70 and had a similar starting experience - WoD levelling in Shadowmoon Valley, establishing a garrison and then progressing to Gorgrond and then Talador. I hit 70 and also got 350 gear intially from the world quests and completing the zone quests. Doing the Emerald Dream and then the weeklies gave me initially 415-420 and then 480 gear (from 'Awakened' content) which was again another big jump up in gear progression. I've done a few keys and I'm at the point where my future upgrades will come from M+ and Raid - this is an intimidating feeling because to some extent this is contingent on my own effort and that of others. Before feeling confident to do this, I would largely do the same thing as you and just level a character to max and then repeat the cycle because I'd get a greater 'sense' of progression in a short time. (I'm not saying you are not confident in this regard, just that it was the barrier for me before taking the jump into player-involed content.)
He wasnt saying retail is never fun. He said his opinion on how he liked the game, which is in line with how the game used to be designed. Its good that you still enjoy the game, but your experience of having gear so bad any upgrade felt good and RP with other players doesnt really mean anything when talking about the design philosphy of the game.
@@IshAlmazing Player involved content is always intimidating and currently the only way for it to not be intimidating especially if you did not do a lot of it is to do it with at least someone you know who did it a lot before because if you don't have that, you will either have a hard time making a group or a harder time getting into one then you have the other problem of having the fear of messing up and then people just quitting and then you go back to the previous problem
I agree with one thing Asmon said a while back in another video. Get rid of all addons, if you are someone that played vanilla back in the day. You will remember how you would ask guildies or people in the open world about where to do a certain quest, or you would see someone with a cool sword ask where they get it. You would go ham in dungeons feeling good about your self not knowing what your dps was, all you knew was that you where in a dungeon with a group of people kicking ass and getting loot. We paid more attention to mechanics because we didn’t have and addon playing for us! It was fun immersive it was always a quest and each day you were excited to get back on go on a new adventure with your buddies guildies or randoms you would meet. I believe wow will feel a lot different with 0 addons. They should do a 0 addons server test and see how that works out.
The Elder Scrolls games (single player) have this feeling of "just play for fun", I played Skyrim (2011) for over 2,000 hours and hadn't killed the final boss Alduin yet :D (I quit WoW after 12 years and over 3 years of /played time. GG Shadownlands, Sylvanas Bugs)
Bruh I just want a time machine so I can go back to 16 years old and vanilla wow doing 8 hour night raids on the weekday and 10-12 hr ones on a weekend with my 40 man guild. Sigh nothing will ever be able to capture that again. Kinda depressing really.
Asmongold arguing some points are self imposed, then proceeds to tell people they don’t want to play a certain way because it’s a waste of time. No shit it’s a waste of time for anyone not getting paid to play the game. It’s inherently a time waster. And the race to finish a game is 100% because streamers told everyone that’s how the game is supposed to be played.
One great thing about Cyberpunk is that if you take the path of least resistance and try to finish quickly, you get the worst ending. The good endings require taking your time.
Playing to play VS playing to complete is a very real thing. I just started playing diablo for the first time, and I’m just playing to play, doing dungeons and cellars whenever I want while not being hyper focused on beating the game and becoming geared. It’s a nice change considering I absolutely grind out every other game I play, speeding through the campaign and endgame content to get to the highest level.
"I miss when I could just explore WoW and other games without having to minmax" You can do that in most games nowadays, even in WoW. Just play retail without minmaxing. All the content from every other expansion is still there. This is literally a self-inflicted problem lmao
In shadowlands, in bastion - you go through your "Memories" of what you've accomplished, and i have done all of those things. yet a new person i knew in real life played through it and felt like his character was just a myriad of other copies. That memory stays strong in my head cause its what made me want to quit wow, to know that the RPG that we play is just mashing us all in a ball of saminity, i didn't realise it until then
WoW is by far the biggest nostalgia trip. I'm as guilty as anyone else. The world seemed ... Massive. Almost unending. I raided as soon as I hit 60 in MC in vanilla and became a HC raider until the end of MoP when I stopped playing pretty much for good, minus one attempt at coming back during Siege. I got 60 in probably early April 2005. I, like Asmongold, was a no-lifer from the start. I remember grinding a spot in Winterspring I had found to save up for all the things I needed for my Dreadsteed. It wasn't a perfect spot. But the monsters were easy and respawned fast and dropped Traveler's backpacks a lot which sold for like 15-25G back then. I miss those days too. FF14 still gives me those vibes and I've been playing it on and off for 6 years . Feels like every week I come across something I somehow had nfc existed. I'd love to play WoW again someday, but I know the game has changed so drastically and the community just gets more toxic every year. It's not a game for me anymore. Sadly.
Dude to this day I play most of my games for fun and rarely chase achievements. Especially if it's open world, you can bet your ass I'm just gonna run around, go in a random direction and find something or something will find me. To this day I still haven't beat Skyrim and still don't have a desire to do so, the game lasts forever if you don't beat it. I just do random quests and fuck around, it's a matter of weather or not if you're gonna follow a preselected path or just play for the sake of having fun, that's a personal choice.
I think group finder and raid finder changed the game the most. You had to go through a lot of toxic shitty groups but you made more friends and really valued when you had a group going - that included taking breaks and chatting in taverns etc.
Asmongold, to point out a exception in a arcade machine that tries to eat up money, is a fallacious and stupid argument. Because Arcade Machines are NOT video games. They are slot machines with a gambling element being the video game inside. So this is like saying that playing cards at home without money is the same as playing cards in a casino. They are not the same thing. And to make a temporal argument about one, doesn't mean it negates it by citing the other as a example. It is a fact that early video games on PS1, PS2 and earlier didn't have the same aim for a game. They provided a developers vision and creativity and had to make a good expression in all regards because buying the games was the only way for the developer to make money. This incentive structure is completely fucked nowadays. Developers don't get rewarded for creative games. Developers get rewarded for making slot machines. I would recommend a logic course. The same issue with learning video game mechanics seem to affect your critical thinking skills.
One thing to add to it is. I and my friends did exactly this when we started playing WoW when Azeroth came out. We walked around explored nooks and crannies and took things very slowly and enjoyed it. I think is not a true ideal of when WoW is just a game. When you play for nearly 20 years or more you get passed the point of exploring and taking things slow. The only thing left for you when you play a game long enough is to always chase that end game. Regardless of World of Warcraft it can be any game, If you want to play WoW the exact way you did in 2006, you still can, but you dont, and thats a choice you made.
The sole culprit is FOMO. And you realize there will always be a 16-25 year-old ready to dedicate their entire life, and more frequently nowadays their parent's entire oil empire to become the 'best' At something, as quickly as possible. Creators will race to release guides and walkthroughs faster than their peers for social media traction, trying every button combination at every pixel space of the map to unlock its secrets. Dataminers will reveal everything ahead, hidden, and to come for the same reason. Sometimes it's great to feel like a pioneer, and discovering a new world alongside thousands of others is a unique experience. It also allows people with little gaming time to walk a beaten path. And people like me who wait a year to play any game to clear it with as much, or as little assistance as I wish.
The thing is that in Classic which is way easier than retail, the level of minmaxing is the same. So it's not because of how hard the game is but how idiotic the players are.
Riding around a game world, using transports like ships, exploring and immersing myself was always great fun. On early WoW I did it as a paladin on a free mount, Blizzard did a great job on some of those zones.
Because wow now is more competitive, between the m+ and mythic raids it feels more like dota or other competitive game. I am currently leveling in cata just to remind myself of only 2 difficulties of dungeons and raids. Each expansion i get tired really fast because of the never ending m+ grind and the amount of time you need to raid.
L2 min max Have an AI redraw your wife Sell pics on OF mortgage paid for Wife is on need to know Rent an office to play wow 8 hours a day instead of work
The killer for me was Warcraft's focus on dungeons and raids. It felt like I was on a conveyor belt for a themepark. Just going from zone to zone to do the dungeon run or the raid. It got old and boring quickly. The game stopped feeling like a game and more like a chore or a job.
So I am bored of every aspect he talks about. I dont want to explore , I dont want to stare at mulgore ( with this outdated graphics…. ). Thats bullshit. I just want a fun game.
Best example of a game i played just to have fun and not just to complete it was breath of the wild. Did like 1h of main quest and then wandered of into the world and forgot everything about rescuing zelda for 80h. Best game i played in the last years
Asmongold is great at interrupting someone's point and pretending like the sliver of a point that they made was the entire argument.
(hears person in video take a breath)
I DISAGREE!!!
Why do you watch him then? 😂
I see a hate watcher😂 Go eat some cereal boy😂
@@KodamaoftheWeastTreewhy do asmon watches Videos he disagrees then?
@@NewSorpigal1 If he doesnt pause within 20 sec without his commentary he can get caught by Copyright in his entire video
"People focus too much on trying to finish the game rather than play the game", I wanna cry, I became this 100%, truth hurts
My brother as well. Took him this year to go and play phantasy online ep 1 & 2 to take he's time and enjoy the game vs every other game he played on his ps5 and xbox just to rush them.
I've never understood this point by Asmongold that everyone tries to finish the game as fast as possible and not "play the game". I don't know anyone who does that. Everyone of my friends plays the game to enjoy the game. But maybe this is true for the younger generation, or maybe it's true for streamers? But it's definitely not true for many players. There is not even that many good single player games coming out at once so I have plenty of time to finish a game on my own pace before another one is out. The point what I think is true that people go to see guides too easily, so it becomes a chore of watching a youtube video one after another just to help you find that one collectible that you are missing.
I don‘t write a lot of comments nowadays, but I had to stop and comment on this. Obviously part of what you‘re saying is growing up, we find enjoyment in different parts of the game than we used to. But a ton of it comes through the internet making everything so accessible. I remember how back in the day I would read through a games manual, the backprint of the cover and through magazines whose articles were based on speculation. Today if I want to find out about a game I just search for the games name, adding in the word „review“ or „gameplay“. That instant accessability took away most of what made games so special back then. I mean I‘m sure I talk for the most of us when I say that as a child I used to run around the map, not just in WoW but any open world game, and try to uncover secrets - even if they weren‘t existent. I let my mind run through all these expectations, thinking about what could be around the next corner or what the footprints I found could lead me to. But now most of that is gone, you just try to minmax the entire playthrough, not going on the path feels like a waste of time. Recently I‘ve been taking my hands off multiplayer games and just tried some singleplayer RPGs, without looking anything up on the internet. It makes games way more fun again and if I somehow find that same feeling in online games aswell someday again I‘ll be glad to return. This is just a heads up for people who feel like they‘ve lost the enjoyment that games brought them back then: Go into games blindly, stay blind until you tell yourself you‘re done! It‘s even more fun if afterwards you learn about stuff you missed or realise you‘ve actually found all secrets. You‘re way more proun to finding little easter eggs or anecdotes and you can enjoy the world building and atmosphere to a way higher degree! Cheers lads
P@@mellowstrangler
This is the problem with Let's Plays nowadays. It's so hard to find someone who actually plays the game and gets immersed in the game world.
get yourself someone as loyal as the WoW playerbase
Not Loyal.. But Addicts just like druggies
So... where they hate you, yet stay with you because they've invested a lot of time into you. 😂
Battered wives 🙁
Digital Stockholm Syndrome
@@AllettoCCor, ya know, unconditionally loving you, or something.
He pauses the video to argue a sentence that wasn't even completed yet LOL, it's so annoying to watch, right or wrong.
Truth, I usually like his videos but his opinions weren’t with it on this one “I’m gonna let him finish” pauses again right away and explains how it’s a bad take lol
Its very annoying lol
yeah for sure. especially since several others have made this comment
hes millionaire ...
I mean this guy is a complete whale when it comes to wow so I wouldn't expect him to have good arguments on the casual side of it
Classic was more about the whole experience from level 1 to 60 ... While retail is more about endgame only.... and that whole experience is what makes classic the better world imo.
Also I feel like classic is focused more on banding together worh other people to overcome enemies. Where as retail makes every player the main character that is the world's only hope for survival and noone else can do what you can. Apart from the tens of thousands of other players
Everything in vanilla forces you to play as a community together, I think wow died when dungeonfinder/cross server became a thing there is no community after that point.
explain all the classic andies spamming dungeons to level 60 then ? LOL
I 100 percent wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
@@Kreshh-pp4ijNot only that, but gate keeping and treating their content like a NASA space mission
One of the weirdest aspects of WoW and most modern MMORPGs is that they treat leveling as some kind of obligatory chore that you need to pass through in order to get to the "real" game, which leads to the devs struggling to fill endgame with enough shit for the players to do, and lot of endgame-only systems to further make your character more powerful. It's a really weird design choice, I'm not sure if I can think of any other game genre that works like this. Why aren't those systems and leveling just baked into each other? Why aren't more endgame gamemodes baked into the leveling?
That's what I love about classic, TBC and Wrath (to a certain degree). They treat the leveling as a part of the journey, as a part of the game, not just til obstacle to rush.
Tbh, I think this is more because of the mentality of the players, but it seeped into the actual game aswell. Leveling in retail is not particularly fun, and I think that is because you just walk over everything. You are a GOD compared to all the mobs and enemies. You also don't really play your class untill about lvl 40!
In classic, it felt like you got more and more tools as you leveled, fleshing out your character's moveset. In retail, you are given random pieces of the spec you want to play untill you finally have enough pieces to get a semblance of understanding of how the class actually plays!
It's a self made issue. They progressively made leveling more and more boring by removing stuff from it until it became nothnig but a chore.
This is the reason why I don't enjoy MMORPGs
No one game was ever meant to be played every day for 15+ years. Of course it becomes less fun over time, after a point you're just chasing the feeling your originally got from playing it. As someone who mostly plays single player games I don't feel like games ever stopped being fun, there's always cool new games coming out, you just need to keep an eye out and look beyond just whatever aaa games are being hyped.
Exactly. This whole sentiment is rediculous honestly. The first time you try something, you aren't gonna know wtf is going on and then the more and more you do that thing the more experience you get. Like.... duh?? Eventually you will "know" the more optimal ways to gain exp, or doing damage, etc. That gained knowledge in turn will lead you in the way you play that game.
Mastery can also be fun too, people forget about this.
I haven't played a AAA game in so long I don't know what the last one was. Still often feel like games have lost their appeal, but I can recognize that it's ME that changed, not games. Some of the stuff I've played recently is among the best stuff to ever come out, but I can't JUST play it.
I am playing, feeling guilt that I am not working, or feeling guilty I should be spending the time with my GF, or worrying about my career trajectory. Or when it's a real banger and I AM just playing, I play obsessively, forget everything else, and then actually start doing harm to my life lol.
No they are not. Now games are full of activist with lqagd bullshit.
@@antifeminist343lmfao
"there's always cool new games coming out" Source?
Bro didnt listen to a single point in full before cutting it off to inject his own " i am always right" comments
asmon 101 dud
If he doesn't the stream gets flagged. He has to make it transformative. He's a reaction streamer, this is what they do.
@@highlordlaughterofcanada8685 You can listen to a full point and then interject. you don't have to respond the second he says something.
@@CalebS92he can if he wants too, and the points he interrupted were almost finished either way
I miss when asmon was just a gamer.
true
Dragonflight's writing doesn't feel like characters within the world expressing themselves. It feels like the characters are just kiosks or robots placed in the world to vent the collective daddy issues of the writers.
That's the new generation of writing though WoW isn't the only victim to GenZ And Millennials Daddy Issues appear in writing.
@@JinkaB0o Their political affiliations tend to be one singular party as well.
Its ridiculous how much buffs and effects each class has. Way over designed.
Best describtion of modern game design
Only bad thing about DF is really dull story, and it's a killer thing for me tbh. It's physically hurts to see what have WoW story become after we had Legion, which is one of the hardest and coolest things of all WoW story-based.
Current games are all about "do whatever's meta and be 100% efficient or just fuck off with that half-baked build".
That is on internet websites and players. Not games. If you want different experience you need to start with yourself.
Depends on the game mate. If you play a Sp or coop game,sure, you decide.
If you wanna have even a small chance of seeing all the content and grow in power in a MMO...you follow the meta, or quit. @@jestbone89
@@jestbone89 Indeed it is, but online games coupled with group content you are bound to run into this.
@@jestbone89That is not true tho, if you do not follow the meta, you have to count on EXTREME game knowledge in order to even think about winning anything past a certain level.
@@MrJefferson07 He is talking about sense of exploring in the video. Stop with this winning mentality Charlie.
God l remember being 36 and going in circles mining iron and mithril, killing ogers as a DUAL WIELDING FEMALE DWARF WARRIOR , grinded up to 42 making stuff(miner/blacksmith) selling trash , sending the items for DE to my paladin alt. And by 42 l had enough for the skill and my ram. Then went to stranglethorn , finished quests and killed gorillas, while mining mithril and doing the quest for the black smith hammer. Did it to like 50 , then started doing Zul Farak. Un'goro sucked me in to for 8 lvls. Then l tried to do plague lands kill 20 quests and kept dieing (had lvl 30-40 gear) . So for teo days l grinded thorium and made myself the full imperial set and the highest lvl weapon l could get from the AH . And then l went with "the boyz" on an 11 hour (with dinner break and a run outside to repair) run of the city of black rock. It was so cash, l had dreams about running it that night. And better yet 2 days later we found out there were quests all around the world for that place , do we went in again and again. Then we did sunken temple with its "feathers quest" , started help friends run lower lvl charas or alts . And then the mind blow...we were told that there were 10 man dungeons , so we had to extend our group from 7 to 10.
I love this about wow :) just playing and learning by trying and coincidence
Sounds about right, that shit was fire, no guides, first time experience with other first timers and figuring shit out, it was so fun getting to 60.
Quest 64, It may had tons of rooms for no reason but at least the rooms made the world feel slightly bigger than a world with three buildings and they call it a town.
most games have like 20 buildings of which 3 you can go into, if thier is a building in oblivion, you can go into it....even games everyone love like witcher 3 is terrible at this
Quest 64 may have problems, but it does have a vision
@@Oh-Ben Quest 64 should have had its own MMO by now lol.
my uncle is a starfield dad lmao, he told me he's enjoying the game and i respected that, i'm not going to shit on a game someone else enjoys even though i might have a different pov on the mechanics and development behind the studio. he's well older and remembers playing board games before consoles were the go to
Pass him some No Man's Sky once he is done with the Starfield bruv
gift badlucks gays 3 and he happy
@@gr33dwastaken seconded
The system that Bethesda made with Oblivion was great and really intuitive to use. I've seen a bunch of non-gamer types really get into it and enjoy those games. I just wish they would stop reskinning Oblivion since its been almost 20 years
Starfield is such a bland piece of game. Buy him something else.
In Dragonflight, the world designers tried to invoke that wide open feeling. That was a refreshing change from Shadowlands and BFA being tiny constrained amusement parks.
However, the game design was mostly the same which meant you were the major champion being ushered to and fro. Get that next quest, run here, 10 more checklist quests. Every single nook had a rarespawn or a quest. This conflicted with the wide open feel. And once you are rushed to max level it gets even worse as world quests bloat up the entire screen. Also towns being nonexistent or there just to facilitate the player's journey. It's just not a world.
And as far as RP is concerned, I think they missed a MAJOR win by designing the drac'thyr the way that they did. They could have had them be proper quadrupedal dragons with humanoid visage forms. Like every dragon in the game before DF. It's a non-issue to come up with some excuse for why they may be smaller than other dragons, or forced to be in their visage in combat. In addition, such a playable race could have had a cool lore background, such as being the new generation of Black dragons being led by Wrathion. Add to the race at a later date by putting in the option to create dragons in other dragonflights. Make the home areas of each dragonflight somewhere that players could come together in. Just my two cents on it....
Whenever a fkn NPC calls me Champion, I swear the god my rage meter goes from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds. I just cant hear it anymore. And thats mostly because of BFA story, then they stopped with it in Shadowlands and now they brought it back in Dragonflight -.-...
I almost couldn't finish the DF leveling. It was so boring; it was just a chore with no risk or danger. Not even once did I come close to dying, even though I pulled like 10 mobs at a time. I just can't take the world or quests seriously if there is no danger to it. When it's like that the leveling is almost pointless.
Absolutely correct. I was wondering why Dragonflight didn't click with me... and I was like "the world feels so expansive and open, why do I feel so constrained?" ... and it is the screen bloat. All the quests, objectives, and checklists make the world feel so claustrophobic, when it should open and free.
Nah, they wanted hawt dragons for scalie inclusion...
@@dannyp9210 dude you just dont like wow anymore. wow leveling hasn't been like that since classic.
Reminds me of Morrowind vs Oblivion. Morrowind used to have a journal which u had to use to navigate places and Oblivion just has quest markers. I loved Morrowind's journal ngl.
Yes Nerevar, I too love Morrowind particularly because the superior race calls it home.
@@Damnit1Lostgo home daggoth, your drunk
I don't remember who made the video, but Bethesda has basically replaced the old audience with every new Elder Scroll game since Daggerfall. Loved the insane world size despite procedural generation making it bit bland in detail? Have a hand-crafted Morrowind instead. Loved the deep RPG mechanics/lore/story of Morrowind? Have Oblivion where they've all been dumbed down. Loved Oblivion as a great balance between RPG/accessibility/fun whatever? Have Skyrim where everything is even more dumbed down.
@Xazamas bingo! Mass appeal always leads to mediocrity. But I guess it sells good?
Morrowind is the goat. Play the mod expansions!
+ works 8 hours or more per day for 6 days a week
+ Have 5-7 hours of sleep. that leaves like around 7-9 hours of freedom
+ sometimes weekend will just become a regular tuesday.
+ game companies competing by putting release time close to each other. And more good games come out frequently (including indie).
yeah, i didn't even realize when i've started to play for finish the game instead of play for fun.
Too many mini games these days. Imagine Blacksmithing by itself being AAA, and the entire game contains 2TB worth of content.
you uh..... aren't sleeping enough bud
That's the real problem of our society, working 8 hours or more per days is clearly an addiction, it's dangerous for your sanity and life, and you have no time to relax or have fun for something else... ( and you are under-paid so you are poor )
Won't tell you how to live your life but I highly suggest aiming for 7 to 8 hours a night. 5 hours of sleep will come back to bite you BAD in the future.
@@flightmart999 Like that's an easy choice to avoid for most people lol. Ofcourse we desire more free time to do what we want, but life cost money.
I just loved being max level and gear then waiting outside low level instances and run low levels through them. Getting them level ups and gear and completing quests for them was really fun for me. When they gave us multi mounts, man did I love going to low level areas and taking them to cities to get the FPs. I would even give them some gold. That (for me) was A LOT of fun.
9:00
It is and it isn't. The thing about classic wow and burning crusade was that there was this sense of mystery, the world was bigger than there were quests for it, and you had to explore and find out what to do. There were several landmarks and places, even secret places to find that players wished there was something there to do (like the corrupted ashbringer quest added later on). It was an obscure world to run around and discover. Now not even new areas feel like this because they are too small, not mysterious at all and packed full of quests and npcs making it annoying.
Very interesting point!
True. I often explore outside of quest lines and grind xp/resources spots to see what's out of there, to feel word and chill out. To have my own adventure into unknown, not told by any quest givers or task.
The problem with Dragonflight story isn't that it's not universe ending. It's just a soft story about family and love. It's still a story on rails with you still being basically "the chosen one".
It´s woke agenda pusherie, that´s what that expansion was.
The problem becomes less controllable when the average person you run into within a community expects you to be min/maxing. Which is very common for most games now
2004: Omg, there are other people in my game! How cool is that?
2024: Eww, there are other people in my game! Shoo!
I miss the days when I was 20, too. 2008 was good, everything was new, I was just a student in university, I had less responsibilities and more free time. Obviously it was fun, not only wow and videogames, but life in general
Thank you for your insight great grandmother
just point yourself a exact time to play games a specific hour without phone or alt+tab. Just play the game, even if the world turns on fire you play the game at that hour. just like we did when we were kids, we didn't care about homework or dishes, or clean our rooms, or even if the world turned on fire. We played the game, now as adults, we need to do the same, but at a specific hour
Asmon underestimating the amount of new players that picked up WoW for the first time with classic (including myself), and had that feeling of being engrossed for the first time since leaving Lumbridge in 2006
React content:
Imagine interrupting someone in the middle of their point and then argue against an unfinished point that you fabricated in your own head and your opponent is incapable of correcting you, and you have thousands of people clap and say you're smart for winning the argument.
That must make you have a very skewed view of reality
Nu uhhh cause mortal kombat 2
Womp womp 😂😂😂😂
😂 exactly
Even when everyone came back to 'no changes' classic, they loaded up guides telling them exactly what to do for multiple days of playtime and then after turbo-sweating the min-max process complained that there is nothing to do
Honestly man, don't watch playthroughs of games. People do that so much these days and you completely lose the sense of discovery. Back in the day all you could go by was the cover art and if a game was good it blew your mind.
People like to play the game blindly or almost blindly.
I play blind but if I'm seriously stuck I'll look shitt up
I watch people play games in unlikely to buy. I watched playthings of GoW, but refuse to watch any for the new ff7
I miss when I could search on the internet without being asked "were the results satisfactory to you?" I miss just having to "push start" to play a game without being forced to have an email, wi-fi, x-account for the corporate that made the game. DLC's used to be "expansion packs" that actually expanded the game where DLC is just giving us what we were supposed to get in the first place. The list goes on.
I recently got back into WoW, and the main thing i noticed is that nothing you do feels like it matters. Like before even while leveling you had these personal goals of yours like getting a mount or even completing the that class quest for warrior, you will always remember that. What does the same thing in retail wow, nothing everything is fleeting and forgettable, there are just not many experiences in the game. Even after playing classic after years i felt the same stuff, the world felt more relatable just by making the leveling slower you were stuck in a zone for a longer time you started apreciating living in that world. Now you're zooming through the place achieving absolutely nothing. When you get an item piece you don't even care. Before when you get something good while lvling you would know, even raiding. Now the world of warcraft just doesn't feel like a world anymore. It's a themepark for quick dopamine fixes, with no real goals in sight.
Oh my god, he talks like he knew all this knowledge way back when the games were released. Especially the Mortal Kombat comment.
Well I don't agree, Mortal Combat is 1 our 1000, that guy's point still stands
He has no idea what he’s talking about, especially Mortal Kombat II
@@ParabolicLabs Hes either ignoring that the original video creator was talking about console games, or was just too ignorant to realize the creators point and brought up something irrelevant to have a W in his reaction. While he is correct that even back in the arcade days they were trying to milk consumers for as much money as possible, there was also a period of time where games were just made to be fun and appeal to a lot of people. Both of them can be correct but he thinks only he can be, otherwise he would realize bringing up MK2 and arcade games as rebuttal to the statement that "There was a point in time where devs made games for fun" isnt even an argument.
I think a big issue is that gamer perception and game design are being conflated. I think games have always been designed (for the most part) to be GAMES. There has always been win conditions and built in rewards for proper play. There is always a game tree. All of this talk about exploring quest 64 (not considered to be a great game) is more about psychology and society and less about actual game design. Yes, there is obviously an intersection between game design, psychology, and society- but if you played quest 64 for 20 years you'd eventually see it for what it is, rather than some mystical experience that isn't a game but a "world".
Typical Asmon, watch the video when he first time in his life takes a look at the Star Citizen Squadron 42 video.
Not even 5minutes in the video, he starts explaining shit to the viewers. He always has that smudge look on his face before hes about to lore dump you about stuff he has no idea about.
7:21 - "This is the same thing as like good CGI, where like you don't notice good CGI because it's supposed to be invisible?
Well, I don't think you notice good game design because it's also supposed to be invisible."
I think FromSoft games are an excellent example of this. Elden Ring is packed with good game design from corner-to-corner of its massive, open world, yet it all feels so organic and almost unintentional.
Also packed with reused enemies and animations from 2010. I think it's a great game, but partially because there weren't a lot of other good games recently.
Eldenring was an anxiety and anger inducing nightmare for me. I got past the first few main bosses and decided I was just so done. Uninstalled lmao
I put 150+ hours into my first Elden ring playthrough when it came out and explored so much that I haven't needed a second playthrough yet. But I do think the game could have tried something better with the combat instead of Dark Souls 3 with jump attacks and more weapon arts, especially after how fun Sekiro was. I just get a little bored dodging/playing defensive 90% of the time sitting there waiting for a .5 second window to hit an enemy. Playing ranged wasn't improved much either. Sekiro was a great mix of offense and defense
@@АрсенийСмирнов-ю8к Honestly who cares about that? Id take a genuinely fun game made for players to enjoy made with reused animations over a "$300 million budget everything brand new" game thats literally just a store front to shove MTX down your throat like the vast majority of AAA games are nowadays.
The theme of the video: "If not manged, players will optimize fun out of the game". If a dev panders to this mentality, instead of actively fighting it, you end up with an 'tism simulator bereft of any joy that isn't a laundry list of 'raids', 'runs' and farming. Where content is just window dressing for 'le number go big'.
True, but looking at Vanilla and 2019 Classic, you can clearly see that game desing is not the only factor.
@@kekelapp0r Well, the game incentivized the playerbase to optimize the fun for decades, it's unreasonable to expect that playerbase can just instantly go back
a 'tism simulator' 💀
It is a war between role-playing immersion and efficiency of reward acquisition. Some people only care about the latter. Stripping classes of any identity, teleporting people directly to dungeons, portals in major cities, flying mounts, etc are all examples of catering that the latter.
The moment I gave up on wow achievement completion was so refreshing. I log in, do whatever I want, log out easily. I don’t care to collect mounts, there’s just no point. After my gear grind, I either play an alt or chill with some guild members. As a kid, the world was mind blowing. But nowadays it’s nice to see once but I usually lose interest in exploring after my 2nd character
I mean a big part of the lack of min maxing in classic days was it was the inability to data mine. Computers sucked, connections sucked, so no one really knew how to itemize etc.
There was thottbot back when which was a first step and insanely popular. “Discord” was basically team speak and ventrillo.
Thottbot whoaaaaa you threw me back in 2007 man
The best example of Blizzard giving us stupid directions and ruining our characters roleplay and even their own, was when horde Druids had to attack the fucking tree and kill NPCs of the faction they are considered the "commander" of in Legion/BFA.
That shit was honestly the dumbest thing in WoW ever, not to mention how the whole thing in general was stupid when we could see that Sylvanas was obviously the bad guy in the story and we still had to commit genocide as a Horde Player even if our headcannon was "this guy has no problem with the alliance".
Best moment in the game is when you can refuse to kill some night elf dude for Sylvanas, it really reminds me that I prefer choices based video games.
He's so on the money about D4 dads. I know several guys in their late 30's, and early 40's who are playing Diablo for the first time because it's on a console. They love it.
I never was a console guy, but the older I get the more I understand the appeal. See, I'm 36 and when I come home from work I don't want to sit at a desk. The couch and some random playstation or xbox game has become way more relaxing. Also shoutout to the steamdeck and a bunch of good roguelike games like Balatro or Hades. In terms of fun such stuff is head and shoulders above WoW raid night after work...yuck.
if you dont care acout the company behind it, the greedy Store and other games like it on the market..it isnt such a bad game. I mean,if your naive enough 🤷
FFXIV does a good job of promoting the play for fun mentality. For one there's a lot more to the game than gearing up your character and raiding, most of the content in FFXIV doesn't make your character stronger and therefore isn't required. Even the most difficult content in the game only rewards cosmetics so there's no need to clear it asap.
Gearing up is very simple and you're hard capped on how much you can do every week, the amount of time needed to spend to reach this cap is pretty low. There's nothing like set bonuses or trinkets or legendaries to chase after. If you get unlucky with drops you still get currency to buy the same gear. Players are on a much more level playing field overall, there's a lot less competition to get in groups.
When it comes to the raids themselves mechanics matter a lot more than gear, practice runs where players have no intention of clearing and are only getting used to the mechanics are commonplace. There are fewer bosses, little to no trash, and the majority of raid content is easy. The most difficult raid content that rewards gear upgrades consists of 4 bosses every 8 months with no trash, and it's close to heroic raid difficulty in WoW but more punishing. That said if you don't enjoy the rest of what FFXIV has to offer it can get real boring.
Yeah my problem with FF14 is two things.
1) That no matter what people say about it, 90% of the story I could give 0 fucks about. It's just more annoying exit custscene spamming (unless I can't even do that and have to wait) to get to do some boring "talk and sit at the next unvoiced cutscene" quest. I've made it to Stormblood and my brain is so fried that I just sit in Limsa and procrastinate doing my relics instead of even thinking about workin on story.
2) If you like FF14 pve good on you! But as someone who plays the most brain dead retail specs and loves classic WoW, a minimum of 3 HOT BARS PER JOB is crazy compared to my 6 TO 8 buttons MAXIMUM (typically including macros). It just doesn't give that feel like when I played GW1 or Classic WoW and the whole community complained that there should be even more buttons from what I see normally
Back in the 00's we were happy just riding round on a skateboard in tony hawk for hours and hours on free skate.
I think everyone keeps forgetting about one key ingredient: Exploration
Games that are supposed to have a lot to explore just became linear.
Like what do you explore in retail nowadays? Main Story finished, going back to mythic dungeons and raiding. No drifting off the main path.
Imagine why games like Genshin Impact come out on top of anything else. There's a lot to explore and the game even leads you into wanting to explore.
In the past we had classic WoW which was the pinnacle of exploration.
Or even think about Skyrim. You never run out of content to explore.
And it also gets super boring, because of the arbitrary adventurer level BS.
When I'm looking to play a game for "fun" I play random games with my friends, the fun is the social side and the game just facilitates stuff to laugh over. Games are the new version of cinima.. If I want a great story with amazing characters I'll go to a game now rather than a movie.. And if I want to play something that rewards me over time and feels like I'm progressing each time I log on.. I'll play an mmorpg. This isn't unique to just games, it's all media.. It's just how adults do things lol
Times change. We've explored all there is to know, the knowledge is plentiful, nothing surprises us or makes us excited, it's a treadmill now. I miss the days exploring zones for the first time, getting the onyxia drop on my 18th birthday, or running with a fantastic guild. Chasing that high again is nigh impossible now.
literally had to rewind to understand wtf he was talking about
so, the guy in the vid didn't mentation arcades at all, where asmondgold got "mortal combat 2" from when no mention of arcades specifically was made
already has me hesitant to trust his word, he says "the arcade point wasn't good" when the video made no mention of arcade games in that part of the video is
baffling as it feels like he did not listen at all and it makes it hard to really follow asmond's opinions on this
hes got brainrot from only reading comments from people pretending to agree with him all the time
@@francoc.8567 yep, it affects all youtubers, why consider the possibility of being wrong when you can just ignore the criticisms and only look at the thousands of dumb teens validating your opinion
Apparently you aren't aloud to watch the videos if you don't kiss his feet at all times, according to so many in the comments.
Womp womp for you too 😂😂
50% of asmons reactions are just yapping
Personally I hate these new "games". Most especially multiplayer games. I can have fun playing them, but then once it becomes obvious that money is all they care about, that satisfaction I had diminishes.
I miss when game developers had fun making their games, making experiences that they expected their players would love to play, not held back by unfair paywalls. Paid DLC was the beginning of this whole mess, but it was reasonable.
Now, they want you to pay for expiring battle passes, which is just their way of milking the customer on a game they'll replace with an even more expensive lackluster version the next year.
A lot of indie developers tend to make those great games that are genuinely fun nowadays. AAA studios with malicious publishers are doing everything they can to ruin it for the end-user and milk them dry.
"Making a game for the fun of it" - this is exactly why I dedicated two years of my life to create this pixel rpg, with an open world to just explore, and figure things out by yourself. I have been playing wow since eu beta back in 2004, and I really miss the old days game style, this is why I decided to just create a game by myself ^^
Respect, i also wanted to do that and i am a practicing pixel artist
Wow you're a maker to take matters in your own hands, very cool!! :)
@@barrelz8646 Thank you friend! And I say keep going and go for it, I wish you the best! :)
Nice, checked your channel and your game looks great, I will give it a try, keep up the good work!!
Honestly, if you didn't get to experience gaming through the 90s early 00s, you missed out on the core of gaming without much assistance. No game is hard today due to the fact you can find all the min max options of the game.
I would rather endure CBT than play WOW in the year 2024
True, I myself would endure ClosedBetaTest era...
I would also prefer Canoe Balancing Trouble
We do not care
I mean, that's quite a stretch. I'd say WoW had it's CBT eras
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy might be good for you.
"less flashy lights" dude, every fight in retail could give me a freakin stroke, just watch some raid of bg videos, you could get a epileptical meltdown from just one second of it. I miss simple spells and armor. The dude with somewhat "flashy" gear was instantly recognisable back then. Today everyone is a freakin disco ball.
This is why you do the world ending scenario at the end of the game, then do a time skip of 100 years and start fresh. You fought the great big bad that could destroy the world... and won! This sounds like the intro to an anime of an OP protagonist. Like even if there are a bunch of unfinished stories the next generation of Heroes will take care of it!
Exactly, they be like, " lets fit 10 different cataclysmic events in the span of one generation".
@jesseperez4185 yeah some of these threat surpass the lifetime of man or orc! Some take 100 to 1000 year naps! We saved the kingdom, the continent, the knowed world. Let me enjoy my loot, flex on some bitches, build a dynasty and retire!
It's hard to get out of the min/max mindset when it feels so beneficial, or is sometimes even required, in these games. I noticed this happening to me about 24 years ago in Everquest. I became so obsessed over levels/DPS/gear/efficiency/ect that I started to lose sight of the game, lose interest in the game, lose interest in just having a good time with the friends I made in there. When I first started to realize it I tried to slow things down, go back to exploring and enjoying all the little things.
After a bit I tried looking for gear that had goofy effects or effects that changed how I would normally play my character. Usually you had to camp mobs for hours or even days to get some items. Thanks to that inconvenience I thoroughly explored that zone, found lots of hidden tidbits, and even became good friends with someone else who was camping that mob. Unfortunately I got pulled back into min/maxing pretty quickly because it's just too important in so many of these games.
We are supposed to enjoy the journey but we end up speeding through it to reach the finish line as soon as possible. Once you reach the finish, what do you usually think/feel?
I'm usually filled with disappointment... "It's over already? What do I do now?"
1996, min maxers exist
2006, min maxers exist
"in 2006 i was not a min maxer, so games were different"
How about in celebration of you becoming more self-conscious (not an attack, games caused this in me too), also police your own decision making by not participating in unfun activities ?
So good old days can return in 2024, too.
It's not the game. It's the player.
It's all a mindset. HAVE FUN !
^^^ 1000000%
I want to argue with you but you're kind of right
holy shit, i don't think anybody is ready to hear that xD
I really agree with you. Too often I've seen people even try and imitate min-maxxers fail and then blame the game itself. When they could have taken a passive talent or playstyle (and likely do better). Maybe they could do a season or two where they only play casually.
People do this all the time with so many things in real life like sports, travelling and other hobbies. More people need to learn to do this with WoW. I do think a big part of it does also tie in with a lack of 'casual' creators and hope to see more of them in the future.
This reminds me of when I was playing starsiege tribes. I ran a tribe (guild) and at one point I told some other guild leaders I was getting bored. One of them asked me when the last time I actually played was. I than realized I hadn't played in months I was spending all my time managing the tribe.
I've always felt these are player driven issues... I've always played for fun and once I'm not having fun, I do something else... I tried to push through it in the past with vanilla wow in 2004-05, but I became miserable at how boring the grind was to level up, so naturally I quit.
I miss when Games were just Games, and not companies constantly trying to shove their Business in my face.
Im annoyed when people think its just nostalgia. I never played WoW until 2019 classic, and i loved it. I leveled every class to 60 because i wanted to try everything.
that asmongold 101, you liked stuff because of nostalgia, then on the same minute, give a completely different argument of why is not nostalgia
I have spent around 50 hours just riding motorcycles in cyberpunk. I don't get why more games can't just be fun.
His point was when wow came out people played the game for fun not to min max. After a few years people started playing the game like it was there job. I started late and by then people would check my item score before a dungeon and just boot me from the group. No one wanted to help anyone new, just grind grind grind. That was my experience with wow.
I felt much of the same and went and bought that abomination 'Wc3 Reforged' to see if the custom games scene was still alive.
It is, and I've had fun for a few weeks in a row now. Just join a random map and play around, and the option for sweaty gaming exist in the normal mode. Hope Microsoft can lend some resources to pull reforged back up to the old standard.
There are still plenty of custom maps releasing and being updated for WC3. It is also very easy to turn off the newer graphics, and encouraged for less bugs and issues.
Also, Stormgate is approaching early access in Summer, but we don’t know when we’ll get the map editor to start making maps for Stormgate.
honestly i think bg3 is great to train your mentality to switch from a tryharder mode to an explorer mode, it really helped me to let wow go for a bit and now I'm approaching the last part of wow with much more ease
You can never put original Wow back in the bottle. That was the best time to be a gamer in the history of being a gamer. World of Warcraft felt like playing in the Matrix and everyone was bad but no one cared. It really owned. The only way it could happen again is it they finally invest like, a fully VR sword art online type world. Nothing else will bring that level of novelty and enjoyment again, game wise.
Maybe for you. For me, the earlier MMOs (EQ, AC, Daoc) were better at their release time than Wow was at its release time
@@PelosiStockPortfolio ya dude dozens of people feel the same. Millions however do agree classic wow as colossal mark on the mmorpg game genre, to this day the 20 yr old game can stand the ground against most new mmorpgs that launch and die lol.
@@PelosiStockPortfolio I think the main problem was that no one played those games and they were for people who never went outside (which is fine if that's your thing) but most people liked how you could play Wow and also have like, a partner, and life goals. As Rickroll said, it's the only successful MMO 20 years later.
@@rickroll9705 I know dude. It was a fun game and came out at the right time for mass market adoption
@@nuggyfresh6430 The way you play a game is up to the individual... plenty of people who play Wow have no outside life, in case you were unaware
I recall that I was renting a room at a dad's house, and this was around where Battlefront 2 and its crap lootboxes were going on. Now, this dad told me he was excited about the game, so I told him that it was a bad idea to support games doing those awful practices, and all he said was something along the lines of "But I am a Star Wars fan, so I don't care, I am just going to play the story and enjoy it."
I thought he was weird and unreasonable at the time, but now I get it. I play Diablo 4 and WoW at a slow rate because I find the games fun.
I didn't grind to level 100 when D4 came out, I wanted to wait for the first season before attempting (and failing in the end as it was too grindy) and I recall everyone complaining about doing the renown again and about all the nerfs... that didn't affect me or my enjoyment.
And for WoW it is similar, I set some goals (mostly getting raid gear of a tier that I think looks cool, but never mythic), spend my time on those goals and then put the game to the side until the next patch/expansion.
Of course, both of these games can be better, and it seems they are going in the right direction... might be copium, but I have hope :)
Focus on positive things and you will see 50% more positive things and have more fun :)
Minmaxing is suicidal for the overall enjoyment of a game.
which is all every game mode has turned into.
Said it many times now, the levelling and the world is the MMORPG part of WoW, people rush through it to get to end game which is basically a multiplayer (not an MMO) game with a sub and most multiplayer games don't ask for a sub.
I miss wow in general haven’t played in 6 years
I haven't played in 12 years. You can't put pee back in the pp.
you didnt miss a thing only saved a lot of money
I quit twice, in BC and then in Legion.
Since then I've not looked back.
Its pretty good rn, i havent been playing bc ive been focusing on college but the start of DF was so much fun.
0:43 "I know an example of an arcade game that was designed to keep people spending quarters. Therefore, your entire statement about games being made to simply enjoy them for what they are is totally and utterly false."
I think there are a lot of people with vanilla WoW nostalgia who could really benefit from playing some D&D or other tabletop RPG.
Computer RPGs were originally designed after TTRPGs, and especially the MMOs with all the "exploring the world and doing dungeons with a group of 5 friends".
Seriously, if you miss this stuff and you've never tried TTRPGs, check them out. I'm not sure it will work for you, but it can.
D&D is only fun with friends though...
@@Wockes If you found guilds and made friends with random people back in vanilla, then chances are you're going to do fine with (half)random people in a ttrpg club.
Also, if you have at least 1 like-minded friend, you can show up together, and you'll know at least one person at the table. That's much better.
I play at a club, new people show up once in a while, it works alright.
You know you grew up when Asmon tells the story that while his friends were having a chill he was grinding irrationally and he had lvl60 and epic mount and you look at him with pity.
SALUTE HELLDIVERS WE WON o7
Their Discord mod slandered Grummz and promised to ban anyone who supports him. Arrowhead CM team is horrible.
@@SM5T001 wtf
You won nothing Sony will come back to scum. AH will also help then play victim again to 😂
As a few other comments have said.....it's all in how you play the game. A lot of games ARE fun but sometime it is the players that take the fun right out of it with the "we must complete x objective as fast as possible with the best possible setup or we are not having fun!!!" THAT is what is killing your fun. Take a moment, slow down and play the game the way you would like to play it, fuck the meta.
I wish more people have the same mindset as you
Indeed in WoW since that was the example, you can spend ur time exploring the world, it's not like u can't just do it right? Ppl just choose not to, you don't need to do Heroic Raids every tier u can go RP if u want even like do what u enjoy in the game
TL:DR kids grew out of nostalgia gaming and turned into adults so it doesnt hit the same.
Yep, people won't admit that. They just come up with a myriad of other reasons why it doesn't hit the same.
It's just that we know more as adults so most games don't have that "discovery of unknown" imo.
I don't really understand the problem though. As a kid a game with purposelss/badly designed areas also bored me the same it does as an adult. Maybe I'm just an alien lol.
You nailed it.
I disagree, there are games, including old ones that still encapture me. It doesn't happen when graphics are top tier. It happens when the atmosphere of the game is done well. The soundtrack and artistic design of the environment.
Examples.
Listen
Free Fire Zone - Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Or any abe's soundtrack while watching the images of the place in which the soundtrack plays in.
Or Teldrassil - Original Wow Music
Everything fits well to the design. It's all about sound design and aesthetics of the surrounding world that makes the game feel magical.
Heck... even in morrowind... sound of a rain while watching the nightsky... It hits different.
The problem with the big "save the world" story arcs is that almost all of the quests you do are in support of discovering what big bad is happening, but you can just skip the whole story (including in dragonflight) to just learn it all in a single raid or a handful or quests before the raid, because the developers now that most people skip them. Its a key component that turns the game into "hurry and wait" for endgame.
I never played OSRS (just runescape then) until recently, and I am enjoying it a lot now just exploring haunted mansions, salting hides for deranged museum curators, etcs. I like that the objectives are small and relatable. Saving the world is fun sometimes. How many gods do you have to kill before it feels like your shopping for cereal? I would say about two.
Yesterday I was levelling my Mag'har Orc Arms Warrior in WoD zones that was max level in BfA that had starter endgame gear back then and was parked since SL release. That guy had pathetic squished to the ground gear that the gray items that dropped from weak outdoor mobs were 50+ item levels higher than my current equipped gear.
I always love when I have characters like this and then get the first green item that has a massive upgrade to my equipped gear and feel the power difference. I levelled him all the way to DF (which was 9 easy levels away) and didn't manage to replace all items so when I hit the dragon isles I started doing WQ for 350 ilvl gear that replaced my 85 ilvl gear with Azerite traits on them, and got that massive power difference satisfaction.
After I got up to speed, I just went to Valdrakken and put on a cool orcish transmog and a title and just RP walked around to areas with players and saluted fellow warrior and horde players and did some RP for like 2 hours and the fun I had doing that was more than what I had gearing my max level alts. Once I get the huge power difference from hitting gearing breakpoints in the game (new xpac, max level, new season, etc.) it doesn't feel fulfilling to me to upgrade 5 ilvls or 2% more power. Moving on to a different activity is more fun to me than grinding gear for a tiny upgrade so I can do a slightly or even significantly harder content that has a chance to make me 5% stronger than what I am currently am.
It is a matter of perspective of how you play the game, yes the game design sometimes forces you to do specific content and not do others, but that is not the case for DF, which was not the case for Shadowlands and BfA, even legion had that, but it was more enjoyable and fun. Most of the people who complain about the game and lead to what happened in BfA and SL is the ones who sit 16 hours a day grinding M+ and Arenas and then wont have anything to do. I started to enjoy the game more when I stopped trying to minmax.
I think the gear jump dopamine just hits at different levels of gameplay. I've recently levelled a hunter to 70 and had a similar starting experience - WoD levelling in Shadowmoon Valley, establishing a garrison and then progressing to Gorgrond and then Talador.
I hit 70 and also got 350 gear intially from the world quests and completing the zone quests. Doing the Emerald Dream and then the weeklies gave me initially 415-420 and then 480 gear (from 'Awakened' content) which was again another big jump up in gear progression.
I've done a few keys and I'm at the point where my future upgrades will come from M+ and Raid - this is an intimidating feeling because to some extent this is contingent on my own effort and that of others. Before feeling confident to do this, I would largely do the same thing as you and just level a character to max and then repeat the cycle because I'd get a greater 'sense' of progression in a short time. (I'm not saying you are not confident in this regard, just that it was the barrier for me before taking the jump into player-involed content.)
He wasnt saying retail is never fun. He said his opinion on how he liked the game, which is in line with how the game used to be designed. Its good that you still enjoy the game, but your experience of having gear so bad any upgrade felt good and RP with other players doesnt really mean anything when talking about the design philosphy of the game.
@@IshAlmazing Player involved content is always intimidating and currently the only way for it to not be intimidating especially if you did not do a lot of it is to do it with at least someone you know who did it a lot before because if you don't have that, you will either have a hard time making a group or a harder time getting into one then you have the other problem of having the fear of messing up and then people just quitting and then you go back to the previous problem
I agree with one thing Asmon said a while back in another video. Get rid of all addons, if you are someone that played vanilla back in the day. You will remember how you would ask guildies or people in the open world about where to do a certain quest, or you would see someone with a cool sword ask where they get it. You would go ham in dungeons feeling good about your self not knowing what your dps was, all you knew was that you where in a dungeon with a group of people kicking ass and getting loot. We paid more attention to mechanics because we didn’t have and addon playing for us! It was fun immersive it was always a quest and each day you were excited to get back on go on a new adventure with your buddies guildies or randoms you would meet. I believe wow will feel a lot different with 0 addons. They should do a 0 addons server test and see how that works out.
The Elder Scrolls games (single player) have this feeling of "just play for fun", I played Skyrim (2011) for over 2,000 hours and hadn't killed the final boss Alduin yet :D
(I quit WoW after 12 years and over 3 years of /played time. GG Shadownlands, Sylvanas Bugs)
keep your eyes out for Skywind
@@00Fiddlesticks00it’s starwind now lmao that shits never coming out
@@mrhouse9368 it's almost finished give it a year or two. they have updates on their yt channel. and it's Skywind, which combines Skyrim and Morrowind
I forgot Mortal Kombat II was the first game.
Bruh I just want a time machine so I can go back to 16 years old and vanilla wow doing 8 hour night raids on the weekday and 10-12 hr ones on a weekend with my 40 man guild. Sigh nothing will ever be able to capture that again. Kinda depressing really.
Asmongold arguing some points are self imposed, then proceeds to tell people they don’t want to play a certain way because it’s a waste of time. No shit it’s a waste of time for anyone not getting paid to play the game. It’s inherently a time waster. And the race to finish a game is 100% because streamers told everyone that’s how the game is supposed to be played.
Now World of Warcraft is without World in it. Nice
Next up : Warcraft 4 :D
Or Warcraft, idk when is the last time we have seen actual carnage and fighting between the races and factions.
I'm 14 and this is deep.
One great thing about Cyberpunk is that if you take the path of least resistance and try to finish quickly, you get the worst ending. The good endings require taking your time.
I miss warcraft 2 & 3, they coulda kept that series going.
Playing to play VS playing to complete is a very real thing. I just started playing diablo for the first time, and I’m just playing to play, doing dungeons and cellars whenever I want while not being hyper focused on beating the game and becoming geared. It’s a nice change considering I absolutely grind out every other game I play, speeding through the campaign and endgame content to get to the highest level.
"I miss when I could just explore WoW and other games without having to minmax" You can do that in most games nowadays, even in WoW. Just play retail without minmaxing. All the content from every other expansion is still there.
This is literally a self-inflicted problem lmao
In shadowlands, in bastion - you go through your "Memories" of what you've accomplished, and i have done all of those things. yet a new person i knew in real life played through it and felt like his character was just a myriad of other copies. That memory stays strong in my head cause its what made me want to quit wow, to know that the RPG that we play is just mashing us all in a ball of saminity, i didn't realise it until then
People just want a good storyline, big or small doesn't matter.
I disagree, I'm tired of the stupid world changing stories that have to constantly have something happened as if it was a tiktok.
So what you're saying is you want a good storyline?
WoW is by far the biggest nostalgia trip. I'm as guilty as anyone else. The world seemed ... Massive. Almost unending. I raided as soon as I hit 60 in MC in vanilla and became a HC raider until the end of MoP when I stopped playing pretty much for good, minus one attempt at coming back during Siege. I got 60 in probably early April 2005. I, like Asmongold, was a no-lifer from the start. I remember grinding a spot in Winterspring I had found to save up for all the things I needed for my Dreadsteed. It wasn't a perfect spot. But the monsters were easy and respawned fast and dropped Traveler's backpacks a lot which sold for like 15-25G back then. I miss those days too. FF14 still gives me those vibes and I've been playing it on and off for 6 years . Feels like every week I come across something I somehow had nfc existed. I'd love to play WoW again someday, but I know the game has changed so drastically and the community just gets more toxic every year. It's not a game for me anymore. Sadly.
Dude to this day I play most of my games for fun and rarely chase achievements. Especially if it's open world, you can bet your ass I'm just gonna run around, go in a random direction and find something or something will find me. To this day I still haven't beat Skyrim and still don't have a desire to do so, the game lasts forever if you don't beat it. I just do random quests and fuck around, it's a matter of weather or not if you're gonna follow a preselected path or just play for the sake of having fun, that's a personal choice.
I think group finder and raid finder changed the game the most. You had to go through a lot of toxic shitty groups but you made more friends and really valued when you had a group going - that included taking breaks and chatting in taverns etc.
Asmongold, to point out a exception in a arcade machine that tries to eat up money, is a fallacious and stupid argument.
Because Arcade Machines are NOT video games. They are slot machines with a gambling element being the video game inside.
So this is like saying that playing cards at home without money is the same as playing cards in a casino. They are not the same thing. And to make a temporal argument about one, doesn't mean it negates it by citing the other as a example.
It is a fact that early video games on PS1, PS2 and earlier didn't have the same aim for a game. They provided a developers vision and creativity and had to make a good expression in all regards because buying the games was the only way for the developer to make money.
This incentive structure is completely fucked nowadays. Developers don't get rewarded for creative games. Developers get rewarded for making slot machines.
I would recommend a logic course. The same issue with learning video game mechanics seem to affect your critical thinking skills.
One thing to add to it is. I and my friends did exactly this when we started playing WoW when Azeroth came out. We walked around explored nooks and crannies and took things very slowly and enjoyed it. I think is not a true ideal of when WoW is just a game. When you play for nearly 20 years or more you get passed the point of exploring and taking things slow. The only thing left for you when you play a game long enough is to always chase that end game. Regardless of World of Warcraft it can be any game, If you want to play WoW the exact way you did in 2006, you still can, but you dont, and thats a choice you made.
The sole culprit is FOMO. And you realize there will always be a 16-25 year-old ready to dedicate their entire life, and more frequently nowadays their parent's entire oil empire to become the 'best' At something, as quickly as possible.
Creators will race to release guides and walkthroughs faster than their peers for social media traction, trying every button combination at every pixel space of the map to unlock its secrets. Dataminers will reveal everything ahead, hidden, and to come for the same reason.
Sometimes it's great to feel like a pioneer, and discovering a new world alongside thousands of others is a unique experience. It also allows people with little gaming time to walk a beaten path. And people like me who wait a year to play any game to clear it with as much, or as little assistance as I wish.
The thing is that in Classic which is way easier than retail, the level of minmaxing is the same. So it's not because of how hard the game is but how idiotic the players are.
people dont miss old games, they miss when they were happy
Me:
Got annoyed with classic grind (since I chose to start there instead of retail).
Moved to retail.
Almost immediately went back to classic.
MAJOR ORDER COMPLETE
Riding around a game world, using transports like ships, exploring and immersing myself was always great fun. On early WoW I did it as a paladin on a free mount, Blizzard did a great job on some of those zones.
i just think its bonkers that as a consenting adult in 2024, I cant cuss on a videogame without getting banned.
Because wow now is more competitive, between the m+ and mythic raids it feels more like dota or other competitive game. I am currently leveling in cata just to remind myself of only 2 difficulties of dungeons and raids. Each expansion i get tired really fast because of the never ending m+ grind and the amount of time you need to raid.
Still like wow but have a wife and mortgage now - devs are paying attention to retention.
L2 min max
Have an AI redraw your wife
Sell pics on OF
mortgage paid for
Wife is on need to know
Rent an office to play wow 8 hours a day instead of work
The killer for me was Warcraft's focus on dungeons and raids. It felt like I was on a conveyor belt for a themepark. Just going from zone to zone to do the dungeon run or the raid. It got old and boring quickly. The game stopped feeling like a game and more like a chore or a job.
So I am bored of every aspect he talks about. I dont want to explore , I dont want to stare at mulgore ( with this outdated graphics…. ). Thats bullshit. I just want a fun game.
Sure, but that sort of stuff is fun for him, so that's what he wants.
Then simply enough, MMO's aren't for you. Retail wow however (no longer considered an mmo realistically) would suit you perfectly
Best example of a game i played just to have fun and not just to complete it was breath of the wild.
Did like 1h of main quest and then wandered of into the world and forgot everything about rescuing zelda for 80h.
Best game i played in the last years