I always preferred the Demonic build more and although I've adjusted to the Movement build the No Mover build has always been my personal favorite so I'm glad to see they seem to have put some real bonuses in using it going forward.
Excellent overview! I had missed that Meta empowered additional abilities. It's been an issue for Havoc that Meta often didn't feel like a "big" CD because Eye Beam triggering demon form every 30-40 seconds meant it couldn't be that powerful. Hopefully this helps that issue! :)
I’m happy with there being a clear divide between DH Hero Takent trees, ideally. Aldrachi -> Skillful use of the blade and strategy. Fel-Scarred -> Unga Bunga I’m a demon lol. It appeals to both types of DH players. As long as the visuals for Fel-Scarred are really good.
I really hope there are some cooler visuals for the "empowered" abilities and demon-surge as a whole. I know its too much to ask for an "evolved" meta form with fel-scarred so I won't hold out hope for that, but only the icons changing is really underwhelming. Maybe some cool looking alternate animation or effect for the first cast of an empowered ability (death-sweep / annihilation)? When things are taking this really passive route, visuals are the only thing that can elevate the talents and trees so here's hoping the visuals and effects aren't final.
You said the hero talents aren't supposed to change the playstyle at the start. Don't think I agree with that. All the good her talent trees, like the mage ones, do change the playstyle.
I want to preface this by saying I do like this build a lot more than AR. I do like the added empowered abilities for sure and I agree it should've happened a long time ago. The part that gets me is the HT seems counter intuitive to the build. The main core concept added is use the empowered abilities and proc this new big aoe, demonsurge. But demonsurge only procs on the FIRST use of those empowered abilities in each demon form window. The build for the havoc tree is meant to extend the demon form window as long as possible, but by doing that you don't demonsurge. Which is the only thing I have mixed feelings feelings about. Other than that everything else looks like it would be very fluid, with minimal changes. The lack of changes or really adding anything new and instead just powering up what we already have is why people are complaining, which is also understandable in my opinion.
When I did a read through of the talents when they released, I was thinking "man this could be kinda boring, it's going back into wanting to stay in meta as long as possible" but after seeing the other abilities change after you meta and get empowered, I thought that was actually cool, should've happened a long time ago imo. And dropping meta to go back in, could be a decent change, an interesting way to minmax it with out the overthinking you do playing current builds.
Bringing back the No Mover build! I am so hype Rn. Also it sounds like these abilities will improve the No Mover in M+, I just hope they can balance the 2 builds so we actually have a choice. Kinda over the tiny buff windows and back flipping to my death 😂
Keep in mind that the extra 15% magic DR havoc has (with talents) will also reduce the fire damage from Set Fire to the Pain. This comes up more when you take physical damage, which havoc has no reduction to.
yes i like this alot as well compared to the other, but also i would think name wise, aldrachi reavers were suppose to be the best fighters and having the enhanced combat prowess makes more sense with the fel scarred talents as it empowers your abilities you are stronger outside of meta (5% agi) they get the burning blades etc it just themeatically seems more aldrachi reaver to me than fel-scarred. but yes this talent tree is loads better and i agree the micro management of mathmatically correct roation game play simulator that is inertia with aldrachi reaver is just unfun when im trying to do keys with friends etc. A+ video tho
So far it's looking like the hero talents are giving Havoc players what they want. Those who enjoy the movement based talents, can choose one option, those who don't and preferred the old Demonic builds can choose the other. I just hope both are competitive so that neither side is forced into the playstyle they don't enjoy.
What people call is flavor is something like Diabolist where a pit lord, a fel lord, and a mother of chaos rotate appearing with different spell casts and effects, and when it culminates, your hand of guldan actually changes to a different spell. Changing skill icons and names by comparison is not flavor. The tree is largely passive, and it's annoying because they seem to think that when people want an active playstyle, they mean movement based builds and nothing else. People want something active that doesn't involve forced repositioning and spending movement resources. These trees will last 2-3 years for the life cycle of the expansion. Can you honestly blame people for being annoyed at mostly passive nodes? When an expansion hits you expect a meaningful refresh or expansion of how your class plays.
I was a bit disappointed when I first read it. Then I reread it and understood that we had 3 different new empowered abilities and thought 'I hope we get new epic animations for that, like everyone else'. I would like that Throw Glaive left the target stabbed by the glaives and do soulscar and summon 2 fel elementals and that would empower Eye Beam, at that time when you have no glaives you use Fel Barrage and empowered sigils you use then blade dance to blink to the target, re grab the glaives and do an empowered blade dance... Oh man... I think I'm talking about a new spec not havoc lmao. Then adapt Aldrachi Reaver into that gameplay. Throw glaive would summon a couple pets and give you a couple of things to cast, then blade dance blinks you to the target you used throw glaives on and you do the attack. Make Metamorphosis a 1 min cd that when used turns into throw glaive. You use it and activate that 'caster phase' and it turns into Metamorphosis again and you use lined up CDs like Essence Break and Inertia every two minutes, with an intercalated caster phase thanks to throw glaive... Man I really wished we could have something like this.
Yes a bit bland idk They should have added a bit of horror Demon abilities in the flavor of Diablo whatever I don’t play anymore just came back to see wsp traumatized from playing no mover builds and being bashed for it after it was cannon build in Legion and BFA owell maybe it was my time to stop in DF
I was looking at other classes hero talents, and my honest thoughts are there is nothing that interesting in DH HT. On the other hand changes to talent trees in Dragonflight compensate for that and both Vdh and Hdh are very „fluid” and fun - gameplay wise. The other thing is that VFX for HT might bring something new and fresh to it. We will see. Waiting to see your video man.
I think cobsuming fire not procing from the talent is an oversite , it shold proc from it an reset , in essence its still a imulation aura just empowered.
The name and icon changing is not enough when other classes have different spell effects. Is it cool? No. It's neat. Spriest having void abilities from the hero talents? That's cool. Give us either new animations/colors or more pronounced effect on the "new" abilities. Maybe that means a greater spell effect. You talk about "the demon within". Let's actually see it.
I feel like AFI not working with empowered immo aura has to be a bug, right? Everything that interacts with chaos strike or blade dance interacts the same with annih and DS, and given there's multiple other bugs/NYI parts of this tree I would assume that's the case for this. Unless it's been explicitly stated that it not working is intentional, of course.
Something to point out is that "Set Fire to the Pain" is still literally just 5% stagger. On a class that heals as hard as both DH specs do, stagger is wildly overpowered.
Feel like your gonna spend 10 sec during bloodlust just to stack up to 40% dmg THEN send ESSB combo etc with pot. Abit wierd but might not be the case.
I'm not super impressed. i like the extra fury because it makes it harder to overcap resources with blind fury for example. That is a pretty significant change. Which should mean that uptime is pretty much 100%. But aside that, the talents themselves, just don't seem too intresting. It's certainly no frostfire or sunfury. It's not nearly the worst tree though.
if Violent transformation resets the cd on immo aura - it will mathematically force u to play inertia . which kills the whole no movement build viable vibes of this tree.
Like you mentioned you only get demonsurges when activating meta (5) or demonic (2) then you want to let demon form end so you can reactivate it instead of trying to maintain it for longer. Unless the damage of the 3 additional empowered abilities makes up for the loss of demon surges. Which seems weird. Also completely unavoidable for the opening of a fight. Definitely a kind of an alteration to how we currently view demon form. Not wanting to stay in as long as possible
So the tooltip of the talent says 14% mastery. The tooltip of the buff when it's applied says 8% the Mastery on my character sheet jumps from 33% to 47% which is 14%
Yeah I couldn’t care less about new icons and names, like I use weak aura action bars anyway if I wanted new icons I could literally just change them right now 😂. It WILL be cool if those abilities actually have new animations
Enduring Torment and Monster Rising are terrible. I get why they exist. But that shouldn’t take up Hero talent spots. That should just be something core to the spec.
@@Jedithtv The eye beam/meta build in the havoc tree has been dead all of Dragonflight. Mover builds are way better and alway have been. Us casual players want eye beam and meta builds to be better. This tree almost hits that, but I still think it's a miss.
@@Domoress this build actually does work with throw glaive too since burning blades is affected by throw glaive and throw glaive reduces the cooldown on eye beam with cycle of hatred. This hero talent tree can work with the build we currently use on live
@@Jedithtv my english was not on point there mb, what i was trying to say is that because its throw glaiive again the dh gameplay wont update a lot, basicaly the same thing
It’s shit sry the point of this talent is to stay in meta to use empowered spells but it punishes players who do so, bcs demonic do not refresh demon surges and if you let meta fall of an proc demonic it won’t empowers all the spells. I don’t get it you want to use eye beam on cd during meta, but you want meta to fall of to refresh demon surges wich means you don’t want to use more than one eye beam in meta window… wtf?
I know its silly, but i would love to customize our demonic form in the barber like druids
Thats not silly! At least let us change colors or switch to veng meta form
I feel you.
Not silly at all, and if we make enough noise on enough places, that will happen
I always preferred the Demonic build more and although I've adjusted to the Movement build the No Mover build has always been my personal favorite so I'm glad to see they seem to have put some real bonuses in using it going forward.
The movement build is why I love the spec. No other spec does that.
I love these talents as I have always loved Demonic. I hope it is competitive.
Yes me too, I have been waiting for new DH hero tree and this is great
Excellent overview!
I had missed that Meta empowered additional abilities. It's been an issue for Havoc that Meta often didn't feel like a "big" CD because Eye Beam triggering demon form every 30-40 seconds meant it couldn't be that powerful.
Hopefully this helps that issue! :)
That’s a very good point. Now there’s a very clear separation between what Demonic gives us and what Metamorphosis gives us.
I’m happy with there being a clear divide between DH Hero Takent trees, ideally.
Aldrachi -> Skillful use of the blade and strategy.
Fel-Scarred -> Unga Bunga I’m a demon lol.
It appeals to both types of DH players. As long as the visuals for Fel-Scarred are really good.
i really look forward to this as this looks like the hero talent ill be going for as that will suit my playstyle as i dislike movement build :)
I really hope there are some cooler visuals for the "empowered" abilities and demon-surge as a whole. I know its too much to ask for an "evolved" meta form with fel-scarred so I won't hold out hope for that, but only the icons changing is really underwhelming. Maybe some cool looking alternate animation or effect for the first cast of an empowered ability (death-sweep / annihilation)?
When things are taking this really passive route, visuals are the only thing that can elevate the talents and trees so here's hoping the visuals and effects aren't final.
We should get meta customization like warlocks get minion customization
You said the hero talents aren't supposed to change the playstyle at the start. Don't think I agree with that. All the good her talent trees, like the mage ones, do change the playstyle.
If they give all classes new animations like voidreaver priests, then it'll easily help with the flavor / theme
I want to preface this by saying I do like this build a lot more than AR. I do like the added empowered abilities for sure and I agree it should've happened a long time ago.
The part that gets me is the HT seems counter intuitive to the build. The main core concept added is use the empowered abilities and proc this new big aoe, demonsurge. But demonsurge only procs on the FIRST use of those empowered abilities in each demon form window. The build for the havoc tree is meant to extend the demon form window as long as possible, but by doing that you don't demonsurge. Which is the only thing I have mixed feelings feelings about. Other than that everything else looks like it would be very fluid, with minimal changes. The lack of changes or really adding anything new and instead just powering up what we already have is why people are complaining, which is also understandable in my opinion.
When I did a read through of the talents when they released, I was thinking "man this could be kinda boring, it's going back into wanting to stay in meta as long as possible" but after seeing the other abilities change after you meta and get empowered, I thought that was actually cool, should've happened a long time ago imo. And dropping meta to go back in, could be a decent change, an interesting way to minmax it with out the overthinking you do playing current builds.
Glad you actually took a minute to digest the info instead of jumping to conclusions!
Bringing back the No Mover build! I am so hype Rn. Also it sounds like these abilities will improve the No Mover in M+, I just hope they can balance the 2 builds so we actually have a choice. Kinda over the tiny buff windows and back flipping to my death 😂
Really liked this one.
Next wish for class fantasy:> modify demon form to various demons. Representing the various demons one could blend with ^^,
Thanks for you great vids! Really looking forward to playing DH in War Within and your upcoming vids. Keep up the great work!
Keep in mind that the extra 15% magic DR havoc has (with talents) will also reduce the fire damage from Set Fire to the Pain. This comes up more when you take physical damage, which havoc has no reduction to.
"Pursuit of angryness" sounds like a line written by a 5 year old lol. Tree looks good though
It’s a play on the movie the pursuit of happyness with will smith
yes i like this alot as well compared to the other, but also i would think name wise, aldrachi reavers were suppose to be the best fighters and having the enhanced combat prowess makes more sense with the fel scarred talents as it empowers your abilities you are stronger outside of meta (5% agi) they get the burning blades etc it just themeatically seems more aldrachi reaver to me than fel-scarred. but yes this talent tree is loads better and i agree the micro management of mathmatically correct roation game play simulator that is inertia with aldrachi reaver is just unfun when im trying to do keys with friends etc. A+ video tho
Surely they will add something to the new Meta empowered abilities. They have to man, those new names sound too badass for them to look the same haha.
We got confirmation that demonsurge will be getting a proper animation, so surely the other stuff will too!
So far it's looking like the hero talents are giving Havoc players what they want. Those who enjoy the movement based talents, can choose one option, those who don't and preferred the old Demonic builds can choose the other. I just hope both are competitive so that neither side is forced into the playstyle they don't enjoy.
What people call is flavor is something like Diabolist where a pit lord, a fel lord, and a mother of chaos rotate appearing with different spell casts and effects, and when it culminates, your hand of guldan actually changes to a different spell.
Changing skill icons and names by comparison is not flavor. The tree is largely passive, and it's annoying because they seem to think that when people want an active playstyle, they mean movement based builds and nothing else. People want something active that doesn't involve forced repositioning and spending movement resources.
These trees will last 2-3 years for the life cycle of the expansion. Can you honestly blame people for being annoyed at mostly passive nodes? When an expansion hits you expect a meaningful refresh or expansion of how your class plays.
I hope they go the extra route and change the spell visuals for the empowered abilities as well!
I learned Jedith secretly does Adele drag in his spare time.
the names alone make me a huge fan of Set Fire to the Pain and Pursuit of Angryness (even though i'll probably run the chaos nova one for keys)
Solid vid Jedith, always hittin us with the info for us DH, love to see it!
More to come!
@@Jedithtv Hey whats that addon that shows all your buffs to the right of your character if you don't mind.
@@JKane_88 default ui. Just moved and resized the buff bar
@@Jedithtv oh gotcha, thanks for the heads up
I'd love to see Fel Barrage returning to a big fancy hovering nuke
The three new abilities need new animations. Hope they add that.
i like those talent, more than Aldrachi Reaver Tree
Quite looking forwards to see.
Maybe eyebeem won't be a wet noodle?
We'll see
They both need some TLC right now they both feel so uninspired
Eye Beam is in fact doing a LOT more damage in logs!
@@LordHypnos4go look at Wildstalker, then tell me these are bad.
@@kalasmournrex1470 I play ret paladin these are bad
Thx for ever give all information about DH nice video just i hope change more that icons almost somethings visuals.
No problem 👍
I was a bit disappointed when I first read it. Then I reread it and understood that we had 3 different new empowered abilities and thought 'I hope we get new epic animations for that, like everyone else'.
I would like that Throw Glaive left the target stabbed by the glaives and do soulscar and summon 2 fel elementals and that would empower Eye Beam, at that time when you have no glaives you use Fel Barrage and empowered sigils you use then blade dance to blink to the target, re grab the glaives and do an empowered blade dance... Oh man... I think I'm talking about a new spec not havoc lmao.
Then adapt Aldrachi Reaver into that gameplay.
Throw glaive would summon a couple pets and give you a couple of things to cast, then blade dance blinks you to the target you used throw glaives on and you do the attack.
Make Metamorphosis a 1 min cd that when used turns into throw glaive. You use it and activate that 'caster phase' and it turns into Metamorphosis again and you use lined up CDs like Essence Break and Inertia every two minutes, with an intercalated caster phase thanks to throw glaive... Man I really wished we could have something like this.
Kinda feels like thematically you’re supposed to get hit by Sigil of Flame to get the student of suffering buff. But mechanically you don’t need to…..
My first thoughts on the Fel Scarred tree was that I hated it, but the more I read the talents the more I come to like how they work..
Think that’s a common thing. Really wish people would give it a chance and think about it before jumping to conclusions
new names and icons is flavour? .... the bar is so low....
They will add new effects to the empowered abilities, just like Templar and Herald of the Sun did for pally. It's Alpha, things are still coming.
Yes a bit bland idk They should have added a bit of horror Demon abilities in the flavor of Diablo whatever I don’t play anymore just came back to see wsp traumatized from playing no mover builds and being bashed for it after it was cannon build in Legion and BFA owell maybe it was my time to stop in DF
I really hope they change the visual on demon surge. right now it looks like a mistweaver puff
I was looking at other classes hero talents, and my honest thoughts are there is nothing that interesting in DH HT. On the other hand changes to talent trees in Dragonflight compensate for that and both Vdh and Hdh are very „fluid” and fun - gameplay wise. The other thing is that VFX for HT might bring something new and fresh to it. We will see. Waiting to see your video man.
I think cobsuming fire not procing from the talent is an oversite , it shold proc from it an reset , in essence its still a imulation aura just empowered.
This definitely looks like more my style, hopefully the sims pan out and it isn't behind aldrachi reaver.
The name and icon changing is not enough when other classes have different spell effects. Is it cool? No. It's neat. Spriest having void abilities from the hero talents? That's cool.
Give us either new animations/colors or more pronounced effect on the "new" abilities. Maybe that means a greater spell effect. You talk about "the demon within". Let's actually see it.
I feel like AFI not working with empowered immo aura has to be a bug, right? Everything that interacts with chaos strike or blade dance interacts the same with annih and DS, and given there's multiple other bugs/NYI parts of this tree I would assume that's the case for this. Unless it's been explicitly stated that it not working is intentional, of course.
Chaotic transformation should just cast sigil at the meta location, and also cast immo aura
Something to point out is that "Set Fire to the Pain" is still literally just 5% stagger. On a class that heals as hard as both DH specs do, stagger is wildly overpowered.
And I saw someone say Fel-scarred is the worst hero tree 😂
@@kalasmournrex1470 oh, as a point of order I do think it's boring, but that singular talent is strong.
Feel like your gonna spend 10 sec during bloodlust just to stack up to 40% dmg THEN send ESSB combo etc with pot. Abit wierd but might not be the case.
Can't wait to get my hands on this
Man how did we not get a tree around sigils?
Sadly it doesn't matter what is fun to play or what hero tree is more fun, we will play what the set bonus or sim will say in the end.
I'm not super impressed.
i like the extra fury because it makes it harder to overcap resources with blind fury for example. That is a pretty significant change.
Which should mean that uptime is pretty much 100%.
But aside that, the talents themselves, just don't seem too intresting.
It's certainly no frostfire or sunfury.
It's not nearly the worst tree though.
if Violent transformation resets the cd on immo aura - it will mathematically force u to play inertia . which kills the whole no movement build viable vibes of this tree.
Not really because using a fel rush immediately after you meta would be a waste
awesome. thanks for the video. keep it up
Glad you liked it!
20:42 is that an animation change for the hunt? Or is it always green when in meta?
It was changed to be green in 10.2.5
Like you mentioned you only get demonsurges when activating meta (5) or demonic (2) then you want to let demon form end so you can reactivate it instead of trying to maintain it for longer.
Unless the damage of the 3 additional empowered abilities makes up for the loss of demon surges.
Which seems weird. Also completely unavoidable for the opening of a fight.
Definitely a kind of an alteration to how we currently view demon form. Not wanting to stay in as long as possible
Question, is the buff of "Student of Suffering" additive as the talent "Internal Struggle"?
So the tooltip of the talent says 14% mastery. The tooltip of the buff when it's applied says 8%
the Mastery on my character sheet jumps from 33% to 47% which is 14%
Sorry but new icons on the bar is not flavor to me. If they look and act the same as the old abilities.
Function is not flavor. Those are two opposite things.
Yeah I couldn’t care less about new icons and names, like I use weak aura action bars anyway if I wanted new icons I could literally just change them right now 😂.
It WILL be cool if those abilities actually have new animations
they said new visuals are in the works, this is just to get it out early for feedback
whats the name of the WA that shows your buffs on the right side ?
Thats just the default UI buff bar, repositioned and resized.
so i this more suited for a no mover build?
Enduring Torment and Monster Rising are terrible.
I get why they exist. But that shouldn’t take up Hero talent spots. That should just be something core to the spec.
I saw someone actually saying fel-scarred is the worst hero talent tree, like, what?
Probably someone who doesn't play the class
Would you pool fury outside of the windows to benefit from the speed boost?
Probably not worth holding damage just for a little bit of movement speed
Man those talent looks pretty boring… i love meta build but this is juste stats boost, at least the other trees makes us change our gameplay
If it changes our gameplay we'd be complaining just like we did for Aldrachi Reaver. DH players don't know what they want
@@Jedithtv The eye beam/meta build in the havoc tree has been dead all of Dragonflight. Mover builds are way better and alway have been. Us casual players want eye beam and meta builds to be better. This tree almost hits that, but I still think it's a miss.
@@Jedithtvpersonaly i like AR just that they make again a build work around throw glaive instead of something new
@@Domoress this build actually does work with throw glaive too since burning blades is affected by throw glaive and throw glaive reduces the cooldown on eye beam with cycle of hatred. This hero talent tree can work with the build we currently use on live
@@Jedithtv my english was not on point there mb, what i was trying to say is that because its throw glaiive again the dh gameplay wont update a lot, basicaly the same thing
Finally, a build where I can turn my brain off :D
Don't keep it turned off for too long! it might stay that way
❤
It will be have diferent animation for diferent spells ? Like super eyebeam, becasue the Icon i can change with macro 😂😂Seat blizzard
Pretty boring in terms of visual changes. Mage has crazy shit going on and demon hunter has... a little green burst?
Those 3 new abilitys should have new effects and animations imo ,this is just lazy and not flavor. Both hero trees are boring imo.
It’s shit sry the point of this talent is to stay in meta to use empowered spells but it punishes players who do so, bcs demonic do not refresh demon surges and if you let meta fall of an proc demonic it won’t empowers all the spells. I don’t get it you want to use eye beam on cd during meta, but you want meta to fall of to refresh demon surges wich means you don’t want to use more than one eye beam in meta window… wtf?