Thank you SO much for being so wonderful and taking my shiny, but stroppy, old girl on! And thank you to everyone who has commented so far with suggestions 💜 Here’s hoping a fox can be found soon - it was brilliant seeing the carb assembly working again!
I think you have few issues the spark plug was drenched in fuel so check the crack case isn’t full of fuel and secondly check the spark plug is actually sparking at the gap I’ve had the ceramic crank inside at the top giving a similar issues because it should of just fired up from putting fuel in the plug hole and also check the exhaust isn’t carbon up keep up the good work
You didn’t test for spark !!! I think I would have started with spark first, always suspect the part someone has recently “ renovated”. Put that rusty carb part in in that vapor rust fluid in your sonic cleaner. That was a classic when you left the float out of the carb 😂
As soon as you turned it over I noticed instantly the engine is tight⚠️😳 no bounce back from compression engine needs stripping to see why . The carb adjustment is on the top not sides btw - it has to be adjusted correctly with that lock nut so the fuel mixture is correct ( the new flip top lever cold start you fitted looks like it has snapped off threads - it's too short it looks like)
I think the timing is out, seems to fire at the wrong time. A quick test to see if the cylinder is damaged, add abit of oil into the spark plug hole + some fuel and see if it'll fire as the heavy oil might help seal up enough for higher compression
Timing,points gap,condenser (intermittent spark) compression issue (head gasket,broken ring maybe)check regularity and quality of spark first.hope this helps.
I think the timings out Adam, and it's firing quite a bit late, so it's igniting the fuel like about 1/2 way down what should be the power stroke. It is firing, and there is smoke! It's also reasonably likely, given the coils been done and the nature of the villiers flywheel magneto setup. I reckon it's worth making a rough check on it at least, which shouldn't be hard to do. It should be, very roughly, in a "good enough to run" way, firing about 20 degrees before TDC. I'm sure you've got an old school timing light somewhere, if you can mark TDC and 20 deg on the big flywheel then you'll get a decent idea if it's out or not. I'd think you can get a bit of bent wire in that plug hole and feel the top of the piston to get TDC? On the later villiers it's usually where the key on the output shaft points straight up. If it's like the later ones, then take the cover off the villiers flywheel and see if there are marks on the crankcase and flywheel for the timing - the points should just be opening when those marks line up and the piston is at TDC.
That "knobbler valve" as you call it is what i believe to be an enrichment valve for cold starts in lieu of a choke. When you set it to cold start the lever lifts the tube allowing a richer fuel mix for starting. This is better than a conventional choke plate as the engine gets full venturi air.
Plenty of good suggestions in the comments, but on the 2 strokes i've had in the past the engine firing but not "catching" was a sign the main bearing seals (doesn't the Villiers use a bronze labrinyth type seal whereby your premix has to be made with mineral or vegetable (Castrol R makes them smell great) oils so a sealing film can form) aren't working so you loose primary compression in the crankcase. also the engine doesn' appear to turn over as freely as i would expect for an engine with that big flywheel.
I don't think the old girl has a lot of compression,,, best way to turn them over is with a drill and socket on the flywheel nut,, give it a compression test,, they may have painted it to make it pretty but didn't put new seals in the crank case ,,
I'm with other commentators Adam, I think it's a timing issue, as it's not spitting back maybe the spark is too late. It's definitely igniting at some point Good luck.
Not that I know much if anything about engines but the biggest clue to me is when you said that she has had the magneto done , I would say that the timing is out ? Or maybe the plug is breaking down under compression ?
There should be a bottom drain plug. Drain it see if anything runs out then turn the engine over with that screw out to blow anything out. Then try it again.
Hi Adam once apon a time I had a wx11 regret selling it mine was a problematic starter as well even with everything set up right. From cold I had to shove a rag in to the carb intake to act as a choke soon as he started sputtering away pull the rag out worked every time. I'd try that first before going in to anything else technical
Very weird you definitely did help it with sorting that carb out i dont think those mixture srews are supposed to be adjusted im pretty sure its a fixed jet carburettor so they should be all the way in similar to a "V" carb whats on a mk10 or on your atom main issues seems to be timing to me maybe its just enough out to where the engine will fire but not quite have enough bang if you would have it to do anything 👍
spray some brake cleaner down inlet with open venturi while turning over if it starts and stops its carburetter if it does not start stop and just puff out exhaust its timing issue.
It seems to swing over very easily .would the compression be down or else timing is out .as far as I know there is no key on those villiers mags so maybe it was fitted incorrectly.
Ive got some manual I can you. I 'm no Luke Coate but I have had a few WX11. It look like its firing late, whipping the cover off amd check that would have been my first port of call as it was getting fuel. It also seems tight, or something is rubbing. I think ive fot a video of starting my old tank cooled WX11, that would boucy back off compression rather than just stop. Few bits to look but its seems almost there.
I think id want to double check timing is right if the mag has been done - youre definitely getting a dpark at some point though - youre seeing the smoke. But, but but but. That sounds wrong as you turn it over. I'm sure they sound a lot less like something is rubbing than that. Probably not the mag cover seating wrongly as theyre so tinny thats easy to pin down, but it sounds like theres more friction in there than there ought to be.
Do the air screws have different bore size, if so could they have been swapped around. The magneto has been off so is it timed right a lot of those old Villiers had taper shafts and no keyway so it is easy for them to be mis timed. Something often overlooked with old two stokes is transfer pressures which can be affected by blow by on the rings and seals on the crank shaft and or case, once the bearings get a bit worn the seals even new ones become ineffective so you get mixture spoiling as well. The other thing I noticed is the replacement enrichment device is shorter on the threads so you maybe not getting enough fuel through.
The height of needle supplys fuel it moves up and down one screw on carb could be air screw it adjusts opposite of fuel screw turns in richens mixture turn out leans .
I'm thinking I would spin the engine over without the plug in to clear any residual old fuel and oil from the crank case. It could be as soon as it fires it chucks up some gung from the bottom and wets the plug. The screws in the carb should be tight.
It is hitting too infrequently for a two stroke. It is hitting more like a hit and miss engine. On a two stroke it should be firing every revolution, not every other revolution. Not sure why it is firing so slow, but needs to fire twice as often. Is there a Reed on this engine. If it needs a Reed it won't go without it.
I very well could be it's fireing but I don't think it's in time so it won't keep turning probably fireing a little to early so it doesn't keep the momentum
Thank you SO much for being so wonderful and taking my shiny, but stroppy, old girl on!
And thank you to everyone who has commented so far with suggestions 💜
Here’s hoping a fox can be found soon - it was brilliant seeing the carb assembly working again!
I think you have few issues the spark plug was drenched in fuel so check the crack case isn’t full of fuel and secondly check the spark plug is actually sparking at the gap I’ve had the ceramic crank inside at the top giving a similar issues because it should of just fired up from putting fuel in the plug hole and also check the exhaust isn’t carbon up keep up the good work
You didn’t test for spark !!! I think I would have started with spark first, always suspect the part someone has recently “ renovated”. Put that rusty carb part in in that vapor rust fluid in your sonic cleaner. That was a classic when you left the float out of the carb 😂
As soon as you turned it over I noticed instantly the engine is tight⚠️😳 no bounce back from compression engine needs stripping to see why . The carb adjustment is on the top not sides btw - it has to be adjusted correctly with that lock nut so the fuel mixture is correct ( the new flip top lever cold start you fitted looks like it has snapped off threads - it's too short it looks like)
I think the timing is out, seems to fire at the wrong time. A quick test to see if the cylinder is damaged, add abit of oil into the spark plug hole + some fuel and see if it'll fire as the heavy oil might help seal up enough for higher compression
If a few people have had a go, i'd check timing in case its moved and not put back.
Timing,points gap,condenser (intermittent spark) compression issue (head gasket,broken ring maybe)check regularity and quality of spark first.hope this helps.
I think the timings out Adam, and it's firing quite a bit late, so it's igniting the fuel like about 1/2 way down what should be the power stroke. It is firing, and there is smoke!
It's also reasonably likely, given the coils been done and the nature of the villiers flywheel magneto setup.
I reckon it's worth making a rough check on it at least, which shouldn't be hard to do.
It should be, very roughly, in a "good enough to run" way, firing about 20 degrees before TDC.
I'm sure you've got an old school timing light somewhere, if you can mark TDC and 20 deg on the big flywheel then you'll get a decent idea if it's out or not. I'd think you can get a bit of bent wire in that plug hole and feel the top of the piston to get TDC? On the later villiers it's usually where the key on the output shaft points straight up.
If it's like the later ones, then take the cover off the villiers flywheel and see if there are marks on the crankcase and flywheel for the timing - the points should just be opening when those marks line up and the piston is at TDC.
Good advice.
Great video check the pistons in the correct way round. A had it a few year's back with a 2t go-cart the pistons was in back to front lol good luck
Those buggers will run backwards as well, when you least expect it.
I bear the scars.
That "knobbler valve" as you call it is what i believe to be an enrichment valve for cold starts in lieu of a choke. When you set it to cold start the lever lifts the tube allowing a richer fuel mix for starting. This is better than a conventional choke plate as the engine gets full venturi air.
Thanks for the info
Plenty of good suggestions in the comments, but on the 2 strokes i've had in the past the engine firing but not "catching" was a sign the main bearing seals (doesn't the Villiers use a bronze labrinyth type seal whereby your premix has to be made with mineral or vegetable (Castrol R makes them smell great) oils so a sealing film can form) aren't working so you loose primary compression in the crankcase. also the engine doesn' appear to turn over as freely as i would expect for an engine with that big flywheel.
It definitely did need that float, eh? I was hoping you'd notice that.
You can hear the timing is out. If it has a woodruff key I would bet pennies on the pound its sheared off and the flywheel as slipped round a bit.
I don't think the old girl has a lot of compression,,, best way to turn them over is with a drill and socket on the flywheel nut,,
give it a compression test,, they may have painted it to make it pretty but didn't put new seals in the crank case ,,
look at points gap, and it sounds like its firing to late, it may be adjustable on the stator plate.
going to check timing. Think that's the problem.
Our need a spring under the controller and the screw part on top of carry a spring pushing away will let the throttle work
I'm with other commentators Adam, I think it's a timing issue, as it's not spitting back maybe the spark is too late. It's definitely igniting at some point
Good luck.
Not that I know much if anything about engines but the biggest clue to me is when you said that she has had the magneto done , I would say that the timing is out ? Or maybe the plug is breaking down under compression ?
Also I would try a different plug. Like your 8com
There should be a bottom drain plug. Drain it see if anything runs out then turn the engine over with that screw out to blow anything out. Then try it again.
Hi Adam once apon a time I had a wx11 regret selling it mine was a problematic starter as well even with everything set up right. From cold I had to shove a rag in to the carb intake to act as a choke soon as he started sputtering away pull the rag out worked every time. I'd try that first before going in to anything else technical
Very weird you definitely did help it with sorting that carb out i dont think those mixture srews are supposed to be adjusted im pretty sure its a fixed jet carburettor so they should be all the way in similar to a "V" carb whats on a mk10 or on your atom main issues seems to be timing to me maybe its just enough out to where the engine will fire but not quite have enough bang if you would have it to do anything 👍
Also being two stroke crank seals have to seal crankcase or you'll never get it running right ,just a thought.
Spray cab cleaner while cranking it if runs little bite still fuel problems if just does the same as its doing trying !! Check the timeing
spray some brake cleaner down inlet with open venturi while turning over if it starts and stops its carburetter if it does not start stop and just puff out exhaust its timing issue.
Sounds like the timings out or could be the old plugs no good! 😉
saw youre back a little
It seems to swing over very easily .would the compression be down or else timing is out .as far as I know there is no key on those villiers mags so maybe it was fitted incorrectly.
The piston id mpntrn bsvkwards so the inlet port is facing the exhaust
Ive got some manual I can you. I 'm no Luke Coate but I have had a few WX11.
It look like its firing late, whipping the cover off amd check that would have been my first port of call as it was getting fuel.
It also seems tight, or something is rubbing. I think ive fot a video of starting my old tank cooled WX11, that would boucy back off compression rather than just stop.
Few bits to look but its seems almost there.
check timeing try another plug try with out exhaust the other thing with 2/s iscrank case seals
I think id want to double check timing is right if the mag has been done - youre definitely getting a dpark at some point though - youre seeing the smoke.
But, but but but. That sounds wrong as you turn it over. I'm sure they sound a lot less like something is rubbing than that. Probably not the mag cover seating wrongly as theyre so tinny thats easy to pin down, but it sounds like theres more friction in there than there ought to be.
going to check timing. Think that's the problem.
Do the air screws have different bore size, if so could they have been swapped around. The magneto has been off so is it timed right a lot of those old Villiers had taper shafts and no keyway so it is easy for them to be mis timed. Something often overlooked with old two stokes is transfer pressures which can be affected by blow by on the rings and seals on the crank shaft and or case, once the bearings get a bit worn the seals even new ones become ineffective so you get mixture spoiling as well. The other thing I noticed is the replacement enrichment device is shorter on the threads so you maybe not getting enough fuel through.
From memory, those are evil to get the ignition timing right.
No key, all done on a taper.
They were bastards,
You need to pull the lever up on the carb. There is a pin on a cam on in the inside too.
And the Villiers carbs were notorious for flooding, especially when hot.
Amal conversions worked better,
I think I'd go with checking the timing...
The height of needle supplys fuel it moves up and down one screw on carb could be air screw it adjusts opposite of fuel screw turns in richens mixture turn out leans .
I'm thinking I would spin the engine over without the plug in to clear any residual old fuel and oil from the crank case. It could be as soon as it fires it chucks up some gung from the bottom and wets the plug. The screws in the carb should be tight.
Check the timing, the present firing could be on the exhaust stroke.
I have not seen a Willy Extra in years holy hell
Sounds late on the timing to me..advance it some..also check compression..
timing-problems ... my idea.
I'd block those small screws again on the side of the carb.
It is hitting too infrequently for a two stroke. It is hitting more like a hit and miss engine. On a two stroke it should be firing every revolution, not every other revolution. Not sure why it is firing so slow, but needs to fire twice as often. Is there a Reed on this engine. If it needs a Reed it won't go without it.
What’s the compression like ?
Put another plug in it first ,failing that mags been off so has the timing may be compromised ?.
Check out the timing adam
You bount to have a right arm like popeye the amount of cranking you do 😂
Ull work it yet 🤠
Timing maybe or is it something do with high low screw
Hi mate it's timing or lack of competition
Does the exhaust smell of fuel? If it does it’s either a bad spark or timing is out.
Check the flywheel shear key it almost sounds like it's out of time
Yes going to check timing. Think that's the problem.
I very well could be it's fireing but I don't think it's in time so it won't keep turning probably fireing a little to early so it doesn't keep the momentum
Where in Norfolk are you I live in norfolk
Ones air screw
crankshaft seals leaking air into crankcase
Are you going to try some fresh fuel, could just be out of date.
And they'll break your wrist if the timing is way off.
Use a rope, not a crank.
Is there any adjustment of the carb needle?
crankcase flooded
Timing....
Does it have a governor?
Broken flywheel key or bad plug
going to check timing. Think that's the problem.
Hit and miss 2 stroke? Looks like a old hit and miss engine. Hmmm 🤔, cool nevertheless.
Work on being in frame!!
Timing out
Timing is out
going to check timing. Think that's the problem.