I agree with you Katie. I would rather call myself progressive than use Christianity to hurt others.Paul and Morgan do weaponise their beliefs against anyone who is not like then. LBGTIA plus, women, girls etc. Anyone who doesn’t identify with their brand of fundamentalism
@Jared Warner We’re all sinners Jared, But I don’t believe that I have a right to judge others and their choices. I have my faith. I will not use it as an excuse to bash others. The longer I go on this journey the more I realise what I don’t know.
@Jared Warner I Appreciate the conversation. I think the point I’m trying to make is that the right to judge others is reserved for the Lord It is not a privilege granted to humanity. Jesus tells us to love others not judge them.
When we tell it like it is, we are not being neutral. We are saying how we think things should be, that’s a judgement, however well intended. Jesus was God humans are not
@Kim Maree The point of Jesus was to demonstrate how we should act. Don’t put him on a pedestal in such a way that you refuse to even try to act in a “what would Jesus do” kind of way. Everyone makes judgments on how we think things should be, that’s the nature of existence. We can’t survive without making judgments and decisions. We should always be aware that we could be wrong, but we need to work with what we’ve got in the moment. It doesn’t mean bashing other people but if does mean that you always have a preference and you act on that preference. For example if your pet or child is hungry, you feed them because you prefer that they survive and feel comfortable. If you’re driving and your fuel gage is low, you change course and drive to a gas station because you prefer that you don’t run out of gas in the middle of nowhere. You wouldn’t be able to function without the ability to figure out your preferences and make decisions based on them. The more complicated the situations get, the more humble you have to be in keeping in mind that you could be wrong, but you have no choice but to keep making decisions and acting otherwise you’ll just be paralyzed and not do anything at all. You’re constantly gathering information and if you discover some new information that changes a preference or makes you realize the best way to one of your goals is actually not what you’ve been doing, you can change your actions based on the new information. And that’s what happens throughout your life because you never know everything, you just constantly gather information and do your best with what you have. Sometimes you’ll choose to do nothing about a specific situation because you know how ignorant you are, but for many situations you HAVE to act even if your information is limited because you have no other choice. As long as your goals are good and you never trick yourself into thinking you know everything, you’ll be fine. You will make mistakes because of wrong or missing information but as you said, we’re not God. Making mistakes is expected and normal, we’re just human. But we are responsible fo TRYING to do good given the information we have at the time.
I don't mean this in a rude way but I just started antidepressants and looking at morgan is kinda like how I'm feeling most of the day. I really feel for her, I hope she is okay.
That was the same vibe I was picking up too....👀 I don't get how Paul and Morgan can make a whole video praising somebody for making "hard truths" and not even reference any specifics or truths of their own that are misrepresented
I’m so tired of people who have absolutely no authority or education speaking about the Bible. I know people who don’t even have a BA in Christian or Pastoral studies who are pastors. The people I know (including myself) who have degrees in Christian ministry or studies are either quite liberal or no longer identify as Christian bc we know how to read the Bible in Context with critical thought and can’t reconcile the church with the Bible. People like Paul & Morgan & Girl Defined, etc need to step down.
Thank you so much for saying that. I don’t have an education in Biblical studies. But, I don’t stick myself out in front of people explaining the Bible while not saying anything.
Being a Christian it is sad to see that people try to make Christianity like some exclusive club. It feels very besides the point when we preach love and compassion.
Morgan seems really out of it....I hope she's alright? I don't know if it could be a medication or something or something that is none of my business whatsoever but it is objectively concerning behavior. :/ They're absolutely talking around gay people.... It's incredible how they're like "Oh, someone needs to speak up" and then they refuse to actually go ahead and say it. So are they part of the problem in their own view haha
Morgan really has it WRONG when she says "God is going to be ashamed of you..." Shame isn't something that comes from God...conviction, yes, shame absolutely not. If Morgan's view of God is that God is a mighty force imposing shame upon her, I feel bad for her in that she doesn't truly know the character of the God she is claiming to serve...how despairing it is to view your creator of ashamed of you. :(
Quite frankly, I'm somewhat offended by this claim that progressive Christians are only trying to be relatable. I consider myself a progressive Christian and know a number of others, and almost all of them, myself included, really truly care about examining the Bible through a thoughtful lens. I'd argue that's how many progressive Christians arrived to their beliefs, is through a careful study of the Bible. I mean for me personally, yeah, I do tend to focus more on the "warm fuzziness," but that's because I find the Bible to be not a rulebook of sorts, but more of this epic account of God's plan to redeem the world. It's a book of hope, not of condemnation, and so yes, I do tend towards the "God loves everyone" baseline, but it's not because I'm looking to be relatable. On a totally different side note, Paul's continual use of the word "culture" drives me insane. He does it in so many of their videos, but I don't think he understands that "culture" is not this broad, universal thing that controls people. Quite literally, it's people that form a culture, and you can find culture on a large scale, but also a much smaller scale as well. My workplace has its own culture just as much as my country does. The kicker is that Christianity, in some ways, creates its own culture, so their way is not this approach that is free from cultural influence.
It’s weird that they think being progressive in an inherently progressive religion is somehow “watering it down”. Also, they talk about ‘progressive Christians’ as if they’re a rare breed. The vast majority of people in the US are what they would consider some form of ‘progressive’, since everything from left-wing to centrist to mildly conservative is probably labeled progressive by Paul and Morgan. And Christianity is the most popular religion in the country. So they’re talking about the majority of the population, the most common type of person to encounter while wandering around in the US, as if they’re a weird fringe group. Then again I’ve also seen a lot of US Christians talk about Christianity itself in that way, as if it’s a rare minority and not the most common religion in their country.
Merry Christmas! Paul and Morgan are something else. They truly bother me with their very narrow view of the Bible and being condescending to those who don’t believe what they do exactly. And idk what’s up with Morgan more often than not giggling at inappropriate times and speaking like she’s under the influence. She acts like a middle schooler in health class, but the sex Ed unit, giggling away. It’s so weird.
“They’re making there own version of Christianity,” there are so many different dominations of Christianity because a group of people decided to make their own version of Christianity. B, I completely agree with the vibe targeting the LGBTQ+ community and think that you’re right about not knowing the full context of the Bible. I feel like they’re being vague to avoid being unpopular with there opinions on that community. This makes me sad as a Christian.
I believe that if Jesus came back today he'd be more appreciative of those people who are kind and supportive and accepting of others, putting the "love and kindness" aspect of religion first than he'd be of those oppressing, diminishing and hurting others because of "sin". In the stories, Jesus was a champion for those who are excluded and marginalized, how come there's so much of it going on today in his name?
About a week or two ago P&M were talking to another Christian youtuber named Ruslan KD and they went into some of the areas that they don't state. Kinda hard to avoid it when directly asked. Progressive Christianity was brought up which resulted in God is Grey being invited on. Like I really don't care what people think of Progressive Christianity but I found it interesting that he made like a 7 part series breaking down their conversation which in my opinion didn't have anything incendiary. BUT the P&M one was left as the single video.
Yep! There are many verses where the original language actually refers to pederasty- literally sexual activity between a man and a boy- not between two men as people like to say.
I read a Christian book recently that explained how the idea of “Old Testament God=evil, New Testament God=chill” might not just be cultural residue from those different times but a deliberate feature that points in the direction of improvement. Like you draw a line from old to new and out an arrow on the end, the arrow points toward personal improvement, and you’re supposed to keep following that arrow in the direction it’s pointing. Paul and Morgan definitely missed that memo if they’re implying what I think they’re implying (wishing that God was actually brutal and vengeful like the God character in some of the older Bible stories).
Yesssss, I would love more reaction videos from you 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️❤️!! It’s interesting that they were so vague, because when I’m confident in my point of view, I want to be as clear & easy to understand as possible 😅 this video was so informative for me!! I didn’t grow up practicing any religions but I went to a catholic high school, with chapel once a week & I’ve taken a few world religion courses throughout my life. That being said, I don’t remember learning about the fear of God not being actual fear - & I am sure I didn’t learn about translation errors !! Thank u !!🙏🏻🥰🥰 also merry Christmas !!
I agree with you so much. They are very vague in some of their scripture reference. It seems at times they are interpreting either out of context or through a mid- American Western Republican context.
I love Skillet, but John Cooper’s concept of faith’s intersection with cultural secularism is deeply wonky. I gave him a gift of a couple of books (Christian Wiman’s My Bright Abyss and Every Riven Thing) when I met him last February, and I - sadly - feel like I wasted my money. Your channel, however, is marvelous. There’s nothing better than authenticity in a UA-camr, which is rare. Thank you for clarifying “fear of God” as devout awe...rather than shameful fear. (Note to the dude: yes, there’s more to postmodernism. And “reverancy” is not a word, fella.) Have you read Wiman? Or Sarah Ruden?
One of my many criticisms of P&M is that they confuse Scripture with Doctrine as if they are synonymous. They had a Instagram story up when Harry Styles wore a dress that seemed to imply that Scripture is clear that men shouldn't dress like women and should be manly. Am I mistaken but I don't remember that anywhere in the Bible. I do remember conservative doctrine defining gender expectations such as men being manly and not doing anything that women would do. Obviously this is in contradiction with many cultures across the world where men wear skirts or clothing that resembles female dresses. Are those men sinners for not adhering to Western gendered clothing? No, that's insane.
I'm not sure if you had a chance to watch the John Cooper interview. At some point Allie brought up the issue of race, racism and the church. She made a claim that white pastors tell their white congregations one thing and then they are apologetic with their black congregation, apologizing for white privilege and such. And she said something along the lines of "if those pastors loved their black congregants they would tell them the truth"... To me that seem to imply that whatever white pastor's preach to their white congregants is the Truth from good and anything that doesn't match that, that talks about issues important to POC communities isn't. This could also be applied to LGBTQ+ issues given that Allie is against those as well as any race related social justice.
It's so refreshing to hear a progressive Christian viewpoint. Conservative Christianity is way over-represented on youtube. I like the way you allow the video you're commenting on to run for some time before you intervene. You actually listen before making your comment. I would call your video a 'response' rather than a 'reaction.' That's rare and good to see. And btw I like your interpretation of what it means to "fear God." It's very similar to the way I understand "God's wrath." The origin of the word 'wrath' means 'strength' and 'width.' So we can understand it to mean God's intense loving concern for social and ecological justice. Our actions, then, are 'judged' (another word that would need a bit of unpacking) in the context of this much wider impact. This is why I think your understanding of 'woke' is spot on.
That’s what I think they’re talking about but I think they KNOW how much (rightful) backlash they’d get if they said that’s what they were really thinking.
I’m not religious at all but they kept saying how too many people are just saying “its ok cause Jesus loves you” like... what’s wrong with that? Also if they were trying to make an argument about what other folks are doing that they think is wrong I wish they would’ve just been straightforward and given examples bc talking about how celebrities/pastors are trying to stay relevant (by being accepting?) but not pointing out specifics seems like that’s exactly what they’re doing SO they stay relevant- being vague so they don’t get backlash or challenged or canceled by saying whatever they mean with their whole chest
I don't watch Paul & Morgan & just started watching u. The 1st time u asked "which community do u think they're talking about indirectly" I said out loud to no one "guy people" lol. Without a doubt I guarentee they hate the idea of people being gay but are too scared to say it outright. Glad u agree.
B, I am curious how you came to the interpretation of "fear" of god as interchangeable with "reverence" and "respect". When I used to read the bible I definately saw gods actions toward humananity as something that we are meant to be scared of. Particularly when this god is an entity that feels it necessary to punish the whole of humanity for original sin specifically and the concept of eternal punishment in general.
Maybe it's just the operational definition of being "god-fearing." Like, at least where I'm from, when people say someone is god-fearing, it just means he's earnestly religious, like it's not necessarily associated with genuine fear of god. When I was a kid we were even explicitly told that it's not the kind of fear that we're thinking of or something. Although i do agree that a lot of our bible, at least, shows.how punitive god can be w/c might be why he's feared
I don’t think this is something I can explain in just a few sentences but I can definitely leave some links to more in-depth explanations if you’re interested! For me though, I like to go back to Proverbs 9:10 “Fear of the Lord is the foundation of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in good judgment.” As in, if you believe in God then you should respect him and try to understand and abide by what he wants for your life. In taking this approach you can do good for yourself and those around you. When it comes to original sin and eternal punishment, there’s no shortage of angles people believe in and debate as far as how literally the texts related to these topics are meant to be taken as much of the Bible is told in parable + could be misinterpreted because there are SO many versions of the English bible as well as undeniable publisher bias.
@@TheBriar_123 it also has roots in dread: Some Old English words for "fear" as we now use it were fyrhto, fyrhto; as a verb, ondrædan. Meaning "feeling of dread and reverence for God"
I'm an atheist, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I thought you aren't supposed to judge? I don't understand their logic. Are they really saying that they can judge as if they're god, and that god doesn't love everyone? I thought the point of condemning LGBTQIA+ people was to make sure they don't go to hell and to turn them Christian, so why are they gatekeeping? They are saying what they really think; not that they are doing this to "help"people from hell, but because they are really just homophobic.
Their incessant need to criticize and demean other people in society tells us so much about the kind of people they are. A loving, friendly, pro-social individual does not fret over it being socially unacceptable to be judgemental bullies. They are ignorant, prejudiced, bullies. Plain and simple.
I guess being woke is bad. As a christian I dont understand whats wrong with being woke to societal issues. I think they meant to say that pastors are not preaching for people to turn away from sin. I was born in a christian home so naturally I became a christian too but I never understand feeling the holyspirit or people rolling around and dancing around like crazy. The bible is really a difficult book for me cause you have some saying its mystical, literal. Some are kjv only, catholics include other books. And you have evangelicals saying catholics are going to hell. While some say hell is not real. The big thing is I dont understand why when every pastor says that this is how you look at the bible and the holyspirit told me to say this to you. But when they preach others criticise . And I argue with people and each one believes the way they believe is the truth. I now think that if I was born in a muslim household I wouldve been thinking allah is the way. And you have pastors people saying prophecies that are wrong. The biggest question is I dont understand how we can take the bibles words and adapt them to our culture when back then was so totally different. And the translations are manipulated not only with English version bibles but also in other languages and I fear back then people changed some key words to fit there own society so that they can control people. Thats why many theologians leave the faith. At this point I just wanna go to heaven by jesus.
Is he wearing a Disney Robin Hood shirt? Advertising for something secular seems like it’s not giving praise to god in all things. (I obviously say this in jest but I’ve gone to enough fundamentalist churches in the past to know they would call Paul a hypocrite)
They speak with such authority but don't even know enough about their own religion to know that being "saved" is strictly a baptist term and that the hundreds of other denominations of christianity wouldn't necessarily know what you were talking about when asked.
I always think it’s funny how christians that have written a book talk about how you “shouldn’t go outside of gods word for truth” So... does that mean believing the book you wrote as a way to live is a sin? Lol just saying
I love them and their Christian content, also your reaction videos. I just dont like the laugh after every 2nd word. Its odd and doesn't seem real. "Hi.laugh.my name.laugh. is morgan.laugh.we are.laugh. talking.laugh." ?!?
You contradicted yourself here 20:17 you don't think that its right to tell people how to believe, but by saying that you are telling people how to believe, if they believe that its right to tell people how to believe.
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I’d rather be a woke Christian and not weaponize my beliefs than hold steadfast to my very weird, gross beliefs.
I agree with you Katie. I would rather call myself progressive than use Christianity to hurt others.Paul and Morgan do weaponise their beliefs against anyone who is not like then. LBGTIA plus, women, girls etc. Anyone who doesn’t identify with their brand of fundamentalism
@Jared Warner We’re all sinners Jared, But I don’t believe that I have a right to judge others and their choices. I have my faith. I will not use it as an excuse to bash others. The longer I go on this journey the more I realise what I don’t know.
@Jared Warner I Appreciate the conversation. I think the point I’m trying to make is that the right to judge others is reserved for the Lord It is not a privilege granted to humanity. Jesus tells us to love others not judge them.
When we tell it like it is, we are not being neutral. We are saying how we think things should be, that’s a judgement, however well intended. Jesus was God humans are not
@Kim Maree The point of Jesus was to demonstrate how we should act. Don’t put him on a pedestal in such a way that you refuse to even try to act in a “what would Jesus do” kind of way.
Everyone makes judgments on how we think things should be, that’s the nature of existence. We can’t survive without making judgments and decisions. We should always be aware that we could be wrong, but we need to work with what we’ve got in the moment. It doesn’t mean bashing other people but if does mean that you always have a preference and you act on that preference. For example if your pet or child is hungry, you feed them because you prefer that they survive and feel comfortable. If you’re driving and your fuel gage is low, you change course and drive to a gas station because you prefer that you don’t run out of gas in the middle of nowhere. You wouldn’t be able to function without the ability to figure out your preferences and make decisions based on them. The more complicated the situations get, the more humble you have to be in keeping in mind that you could be wrong, but you have no choice but to keep making decisions and acting otherwise you’ll just be paralyzed and not do anything at all. You’re constantly gathering information and if you discover some new information that changes a preference or makes you realize the best way to one of your goals is actually not what you’ve been doing, you can change your actions based on the new information. And that’s what happens throughout your life because you never know everything, you just constantly gather information and do your best with what you have. Sometimes you’ll choose to do nothing about a specific situation because you know how ignorant you are, but for many situations you HAVE to act even if your information is limited because you have no other choice. As long as your goals are good and you never trick yourself into thinking you know everything, you’ll be fine. You will make mistakes because of wrong or missing information but as you said, we’re not God. Making mistakes is expected and normal, we’re just human. But we are responsible fo TRYING to do good given the information we have at the time.
I don't mean this in a rude way but I just started antidepressants and looking at morgan is kinda like how I'm feeling most of the day. I really feel for her, I hope she is okay.
I hope she’s ok too. She’s been diagnosed with depression but Paul doesn’t believe in medication so I’m truly just wishing the best for her!
@@BHaney yeah it’s sad because I’m a Skillet Fan as well I love their music I got all their songs on my Spotify playlist.
That was the same vibe I was picking up too....👀 I don't get how Paul and Morgan can make a whole video praising somebody for making "hard truths" and not even reference any specifics or truths of their own that are misrepresented
Exactly! They’re SO passionate about this “problem” but won’t speak openly about it??
I’m so tired of people who have absolutely no authority or education speaking about the Bible. I know people who don’t even have a BA in Christian or Pastoral studies who are pastors. The people I know (including myself) who have degrees in Christian ministry or studies are either quite liberal or no longer identify as Christian bc we know how to read the Bible in Context with critical thought and can’t reconcile the church with the Bible.
People like Paul & Morgan & Girl Defined, etc need to step down.
Thank you so much for saying that. I don’t have an education in Biblical studies. But, I don’t stick myself out in front of people explaining the Bible while not saying anything.
Thats nonsense
Being a Christian it is sad to see that people try to make Christianity like some exclusive club. It feels very besides the point when we preach love and compassion.
“Narrow is the way” the Christian would say.
Morgan seems really out of it....I hope she's alright? I don't know if it could be a medication or something or something that is none of my business whatsoever but it is objectively concerning behavior. :/
They're absolutely talking around gay people.... It's incredible how they're like "Oh, someone needs to speak up" and then they refuse to actually go ahead and say it. So are they part of the problem in their own view haha
Morgan really has it WRONG when she says "God is going to be ashamed of you..." Shame isn't something that comes from God...conviction, yes, shame absolutely not. If Morgan's view of God is that God is a mighty force imposing shame upon her, I feel bad for her in that she doesn't truly know the character of the God she is claiming to serve...how despairing it is to view your creator of ashamed of you. :(
As an atheist, we LOVE ya’ll “progressive” Christians.
Of course you do, your enemies love you to be weak and passive too
@@lostplanet1931 enemies?
@@Jordan75375 thats an analogy
Quite frankly, I'm somewhat offended by this claim that progressive Christians are only trying to be relatable. I consider myself a progressive Christian and know a number of others, and almost all of them, myself included, really truly care about examining the Bible through a thoughtful lens. I'd argue that's how many progressive Christians arrived to their beliefs, is through a careful study of the Bible. I mean for me personally, yeah, I do tend to focus more on the "warm fuzziness," but that's because I find the Bible to be not a rulebook of sorts, but more of this epic account of God's plan to redeem the world. It's a book of hope, not of condemnation, and so yes, I do tend towards the "God loves everyone" baseline, but it's not because I'm looking to be relatable.
On a totally different side note, Paul's continual use of the word "culture" drives me insane. He does it in so many of their videos, but I don't think he understands that "culture" is not this broad, universal thing that controls people. Quite literally, it's people that form a culture, and you can find culture on a large scale, but also a much smaller scale as well. My workplace has its own culture just as much as my country does. The kicker is that Christianity, in some ways, creates its own culture, so their way is not this approach that is free from cultural influence.
It’s weird that they think being progressive in an inherently progressive religion is somehow “watering it down”.
Also, they talk about ‘progressive Christians’ as if they’re a rare breed. The vast majority of people in the US are what they would consider some form of ‘progressive’, since everything from left-wing to centrist to mildly conservative is probably labeled progressive by Paul and Morgan. And Christianity is the most popular religion in the country. So they’re talking about the majority of the population, the most common type of person to encounter while wandering around in the US, as if they’re a weird fringe group. Then again I’ve also seen a lot of US Christians talk about Christianity itself in that way, as if it’s a rare minority and not the most common religion in their country.
Merry Christmas! Paul and Morgan are something else. They truly bother me with their very narrow view of the Bible and being condescending to those who don’t believe what they do exactly. And idk what’s up with Morgan more often than not giggling at inappropriate times and speaking like she’s under the influence. She acts like a middle schooler in health class, but the sex Ed unit, giggling away. It’s so weird.
And giving marital advice even though they’ve been married for like 2 seconds
I totally got the idea that they were clearly saying my lesbian & premarital sex having self need NOT apply... unless I choose to "fix" myself.
“They’re making there own version of Christianity,” there are so many different dominations of Christianity because a group of people decided to make their own version of Christianity. B, I completely agree with the vibe targeting the LGBTQ+ community and think that you’re right about not knowing the full context of the Bible. I feel like they’re being vague to avoid being unpopular with there opinions on that community. This makes me sad as a Christian.
I believe that if Jesus came back today he'd be more appreciative of those people who are kind and supportive and accepting of others, putting the "love and kindness" aspect of religion first than he'd be of those oppressing, diminishing and hurting others because of "sin". In the stories, Jesus was a champion for those who are excluded and marginalized, how come there's so much of it going on today in his name?
About a week or two ago P&M were talking to another Christian youtuber named Ruslan KD and they went into some of the areas that they don't state. Kinda hard to avoid it when directly asked. Progressive Christianity was brought up which resulted in God is Grey being invited on. Like I really don't care what people think of Progressive Christianity but I found it interesting that he made like a 7 part series breaking down their conversation which in my opinion didn't have anything incendiary. BUT the P&M one was left as the single video.
Wasn’t it mistranslated and it’s supposed to be man shall not lye with child , or something along those lines?
Yep! There are many verses where the original language actually refers to pederasty- literally sexual activity between a man and a boy- not between two men as people like to say.
I read a Christian book recently that explained how the idea of “Old Testament God=evil, New Testament God=chill” might not just be cultural residue from those different times but a deliberate feature that points in the direction of improvement. Like you draw a line from old to new and out an arrow on the end, the arrow points toward personal improvement, and you’re supposed to keep following that arrow in the direction it’s pointing. Paul and Morgan definitely missed that memo if they’re implying what I think they’re implying (wishing that God was actually brutal and vengeful like the God character in some of the older Bible stories).
Yesssss, I would love more reaction videos from you 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️❤️!! It’s interesting that they were so vague, because when I’m confident in my point of view, I want to be as clear & easy to understand as possible 😅 this video was so informative for me!! I didn’t grow up practicing any religions but I went to a catholic high school, with chapel once a week & I’ve taken a few world religion courses throughout my life. That being said, I don’t remember learning about the fear of God not being actual fear - & I am sure I didn’t learn about translation errors !! Thank u !!🙏🏻🥰🥰 also merry Christmas !!
I agree with you so much. They are very vague in some of their scripture reference. It seems at times they are interpreting either out of context or through a mid- American Western Republican context.
I love Skillet, but John Cooper’s concept of faith’s intersection with cultural secularism is deeply wonky. I gave him a gift of a couple of books (Christian Wiman’s My Bright Abyss and Every Riven Thing) when I met him last February, and I - sadly - feel like I wasted my money. Your channel, however, is marvelous. There’s nothing better than authenticity in a UA-camr, which is rare. Thank you for clarifying “fear of God” as devout awe...rather than shameful fear. (Note to the dude: yes, there’s more to postmodernism. And “reverancy” is not a word, fella.) Have you read Wiman? Or Sarah Ruden?
One of my many criticisms of P&M is that they confuse Scripture with Doctrine as if they are synonymous. They had a Instagram story up when Harry Styles wore a dress that seemed to imply that Scripture is clear that men shouldn't dress like women and should be manly. Am I mistaken but I don't remember that anywhere in the Bible. I do remember conservative doctrine defining gender expectations such as men being manly and not doing anything that women would do. Obviously this is in contradiction with many cultures across the world where men wear skirts or clothing that resembles female dresses. Are those men sinners for not adhering to Western gendered clothing? No, that's insane.
I'm not sure if you had a chance to watch the John Cooper interview. At some point Allie brought up the issue of race, racism and the church. She made a claim that white pastors tell their white congregations one thing and then they are apologetic with their black congregation, apologizing for white privilege and such. And she said something along the lines of "if those pastors loved their black congregants they would tell them the truth"... To me that seem to imply that whatever white pastor's preach to their white congregants is the Truth from good and anything that doesn't match that, that talks about issues important to POC communities isn't. This could also be applied to LGBTQ+ issues given that Allie is against those as well as any race related social justice.
At my house Santa is getting bourbon balls lmao
You’re officially Santa’s favorite house 😋
Maybe it’s not Christian of me to say this, but I couldn’t hate Paul and Morgan more. They make me really really angry.
I don’t hate them, but they give me heartburn. They remind me of people who are clueless about their topic but don’t know how ill educated they are.
React videos are getting so meta 🤣
I love skillet's music so much, though I am not religious in the least, bc they are so, so talented.
It's so refreshing to hear a progressive Christian viewpoint. Conservative Christianity is way over-represented on youtube.
I like the way you allow the video you're commenting on to run for some time before you intervene. You actually listen before making your comment. I would call your video a 'response' rather than a 'reaction.' That's rare and good to see.
And btw I like your interpretation of what it means to "fear God." It's very similar to the way I understand "God's wrath." The origin of the word 'wrath' means 'strength' and 'width.' So we can understand it to mean God's intense loving concern for social and ecological justice. Our actions, then, are 'judged' (another word that would need a bit of unpacking) in the context of this much wider impact. This is why I think your understanding of 'woke' is spot on.
Is a 'liberal view' of the bible just being Christian but accepting LGBT people because honestly that's the vibe I'm getting from this.
That’s what I think they’re talking about but I think they KNOW how much (rightful) backlash they’d get if they said that’s what they were really thinking.
I’m not religious at all but they kept saying how too many people are just saying “its ok cause Jesus loves you” like... what’s wrong with that? Also if they were trying to make an argument about what other folks are doing that they think is wrong I wish they would’ve just been straightforward and given examples bc talking about how celebrities/pastors are trying to stay relevant (by being accepting?) but not pointing out specifics seems like that’s exactly what they’re doing SO they stay relevant- being vague so they don’t get backlash or challenged or canceled by saying whatever they mean with their whole chest
100% they're talking about sexuality, gender etc. But not talking about it at the same time if that makes sense.
That’s how I feel too!
I don't watch Paul & Morgan & just started watching u. The 1st time u asked "which community do u think they're talking about indirectly" I said out loud to no one "guy people" lol. Without a doubt I guarentee they hate the idea of people being gay but are too scared to say it outright. Glad u agree.
You are bang on about what woke means and how they may not understand the term.
This is two years old and I just saw it so I gave you a thumbs up. Sorry , it's so late. 😄
B, I am curious how you came to the interpretation of "fear" of god as interchangeable with "reverence" and "respect". When I used to read the bible I definately saw gods actions toward humananity as something that we are meant to be scared of. Particularly when this god is an entity that feels it necessary to punish the whole of humanity for original sin specifically and the concept of eternal punishment in general.
Maybe it's just the operational definition of being "god-fearing." Like, at least where I'm from, when people say someone is god-fearing, it just means he's earnestly religious, like it's not necessarily associated with genuine fear of god. When I was a kid we were even explicitly told that it's not the kind of fear that we're thinking of or something. Although i do agree that a lot of our bible, at least, shows.how punitive god can be w/c might be why he's feared
The origin of the word fear has roots in the word revere.
I don’t think this is something I can explain in just a few sentences but I can definitely leave some links to more in-depth explanations if you’re interested! For me though, I like to go back to Proverbs 9:10 “Fear of the Lord is the foundation of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in good judgment.” As in, if you believe in God then you should respect him and try to understand and abide by what he wants for your life. In taking this approach you can do good for yourself and those around you.
When it comes to original sin and eternal punishment, there’s no shortage of angles people believe in and debate as far as how literally the texts related to these topics are meant to be taken as much of the Bible is told in parable + could be misinterpreted because there are SO many versions of the English bible as well as undeniable publisher bias.
@@TheBriar_123 it also has roots in dread: Some Old English words for "fear" as we now use it were fyrhto, fyrhto; as a verb, ondrædan. Meaning "feeling of dread and reverence for God"
@@peapotfairy yeah, etymology is complex. Also it seems you may have answered your own initial question...
I'm an atheist, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I thought you aren't supposed to judge? I don't understand their logic. Are they really saying that they can judge as if they're god, and that god doesn't love everyone? I thought the point of condemning LGBTQIA+ people was to make sure they don't go to hell and to turn them Christian, so why are they gatekeeping? They are saying what they really think; not that they are doing this to "help"people from hell, but because they are really just homophobic.
Yay been waiting for a video like this! Have a wonderful Christmas B😊
I’m glad you enjoyed it! Merry Christmas 🎄
I would be so interested in some sort of bible study with you
I’ve definitely thought about doing something like that. I think it would be so cool, hopefully someday I can facilitate one.
I love your girls defined and Paul and Morgan videos, thank you❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Their incessant need to criticize and demean other people in society tells us so much about the kind of people they are. A loving, friendly, pro-social individual does not fret over it being socially unacceptable to be judgemental bullies.
They are ignorant, prejudiced, bullies. Plain and simple.
It’s a shame when we can’t all be more introspective “be careful you who think you stand lest you fall” 1 cor 10:12 it has to start from within
I guess being woke is bad. As a christian I dont understand whats wrong with being woke to societal issues. I think they meant to say that pastors are not preaching for people to turn away from sin.
I was born in a christian home so naturally I became a christian too but I never understand feeling the holyspirit or people rolling around and dancing around like crazy. The bible is really a difficult book for me cause you have some saying its mystical, literal. Some are kjv only, catholics include other books. And you have evangelicals saying catholics are going to hell. While some say hell is not real. The big thing is I dont understand why when every pastor says that this is how you look at the bible and the holyspirit told me to say this to you. But when they preach others criticise . And I argue with people and each one believes the way they believe is the truth. I now think that if I was born in a muslim household I wouldve been thinking allah is the way. And you have pastors people saying prophecies that are wrong. The biggest question is I dont understand how we can take the bibles words and adapt them to our culture when back then was so totally different. And the translations are manipulated not only with English version bibles but also in other languages and I fear back then people changed some key words to fit there own society so that they can control people. Thats why many theologians leave the faith. At this point I just wanna go to heaven by jesus.
Merry Christmas B 🎄😍😍
Merry Christmas! I hope you have a great holiday!!
@@BHaney 😍💕💕
Is he wearing a Disney Robin Hood shirt? Advertising for something secular seems like it’s not giving praise to god in all things.
(I obviously say this in jest but I’ve gone to enough fundamentalist churches in the past to know they would call Paul a hypocrite)
Don’t give him ideas. He’s going to rip that shirt too
They speak with such authority but don't even know enough about their own religion to know that being "saved" is strictly a baptist term and that the hundreds of other denominations of christianity wouldn't necessarily know what you were talking about when asked.
Please tell me you’re going to law school. You would be a fantastic attorney 👏
Thank you so much! Law school would crush me though, I’m not competitive enough 😂
11:35 its both, fears comes when you know consequences, people fear hight, snakes, spiders etc for a reason, and who is a greater threat if not God?
For the algorithm ☁️☁️☁️
💛💛💛
John of God and Oprah and so, so much more.
Absolutely come for Oprah!!
They generalise cos there's no real facts!
🐝🐝🐝
I always think it’s funny how christians that have written a book talk about how you “shouldn’t go outside of gods word for truth”
So... does that mean believing the book you wrote as a way to live is a sin? Lol just saying
Morgan sounds like she hates her life but is too scared of God to do anything about it
I love them and their Christian content, also your reaction videos. I just dont like the laugh after every 2nd word. Its odd and doesn't seem real. "Hi.laugh.my name.laugh. is morgan.laugh.we are.laugh. talking.laugh." ?!?
You don’t see the log in your own eye of smug pride and condescension, thinking you know better. You’re doing the same thing you’re accusing them of.
You contradicted yourself here 20:17 you don't think that its right to tell people how to believe, but by saying that you are telling people how to believe, if they believe that its right to tell people how to believe.
Giving critique opens yourself to critique. Just like you are critiquing about her critique despite complaining about her critiquing.
I don't konw w h tyeh y ar e but thatis toally hiosld s correctness all topic anes in the reaility therie s.