Music Software & Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius
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- Опубліковано 14 лис 2018
- In this video, I take a detailed look at the design of Avid's Sibelius - a popular music notation application. Sibelius is the embodiment of what not to do as a user experience designer and this video covers a range of examples of inappropriate design patterns and bad user interface choices. Then I go insane.
Support me on Patreon: / tantacrul
This really is one of the great examples of breaking all UI design principles and every UX design principle too. It's like a design bull in a musical china shop.
Hey everyone - I'm sure you've noticed that there's been a large gap between my videos recently. The reason is that I have a lot of other work I need to take on to pay the bills. Although my channel is still growing nicely, it's is not yet at the level where I can dedicate the sort of time I think it deserves. So, if you have a bit of spare coin, I'd ask that you please consider become a Patron to support my channel. If not, don't worry. Thanks a lot for watching, regardless! www.patreon.com/Tantacrul
Could you link to the MS Word talk?
Keep it up. Your content is beyond anything else offered on Youtbe currently! I'll just be waiting here....
Your videos are informative and funny. I value this, and I'm already supporting a few creators on Patreon so I've added you. I noticed that you've selected "per video" instead of "per month", which means that unless you release something you won't get any money. Is that what you were wanting, or did you want a more reliable income regardless of release schedule?
"i bought Ableton the next day"
I downvoted you because you use OSX
Back in college, one of my friends pirated sibelius 7. We were very excited to begin electronic arrangement, as it promised to make the process much simpler. after attempting to use it for several days, we came to the conclusion that the version that we had pirated was an early developer's beta launch. It was practically unusable. only after watching this video, do I realize that we had the full version of the program. It's just that bad.
this is so sad. omg.
Should have gone with Dorico at that point
@@WolfrostWasTaken Dorico might not have existed at that point, so it would have to have been Finale instead.
If I were in your shoes, I would have thought it had an anti-piracy measure that made the UI look like a mess intentionally.
sibelius has ALWAYS been bad. seriously. I had to use it in college long ago. it was garbage then, and garbage now.
As an avid sibelius user (get it? haha...) I watch this video ever 3 months as a sort of cleansing ritual to remind myself that I am not alone in my suffering.
I've used sibelius 7 since I was 11 (I'm 16) I know it can be hard but I love it on the whole
same with finale lol
I don’t use Sibelius (my bf is a Composer which is how I even heard of this) but I watch this every now and then because it’s such a good video in and of itself lol
avid is literally evil
Just change to Musescore bro cringe
I've been using Sibelius Version 1.4 for the past twenty years- really good, though I recently upgraded to pencil and paper!
Nothing can beat pencil and paper at intuitivity
@@davinchristino The only things I think compete is drinking milk and the concept of gravity, intuitively speaking.
Try Musescore 4 :D
ill never understand why everyone is trying to move forward to programs like Sibelius when it doesn't improve on (and is usually worse) than the already existing pencil & paper
@@growskull i think there is a general appeal in electronic composition due to the programme providing things such as playback, but generally this is promonent for beginners
They insisted on 'violoncello', yet... not 'pianoforte', for some reason.
They wanna sound like they know shit but they don't actually
To be fair, violoncello is still the official name, while pianoforte is considered outdated.
@@brandonk.4864 I’d say violoncello is kinda outdated though too
@@brandonk.4864 I didn't even know it was called Pianoforte. It makes more sense, tbh.
@@mrpedrobraga It just makes so much sense.
Should change their name to AVOID
This one got me
"The black beams can stretch. They can stretch really high." That cracked my shit.
a lot of the video was funny, but that was the only part when I laughed out loud
long beam is loooooooooooooooooooooong
If someone doesn't make that snippet into a UA-cam haiku, I will
@@bugglest0n
The black beams can stretch
They can stretch even farther
That shit cracked me up
17:02
this video is the Don’t Hug Me I’m Scared of musical notation software critique video essays
Never has a more accurate, succinct, but ultimately baffling analogy/review been made.
If I taught a class on UI design, I would use your quote as an introduction before showing this video to my class. Just to scare them.
this is perhaps the most obscure comment i have ever bore witness to
Yeah, I was thinking of DHMIS (particularly that section in the first episode) at some point.
the last few minutes of the video sorta gave those vibes
im here for it
I deeply appreciate the effort put into the CC to communicate the mental breakdown causing feature that is Sibelius crashing every 5 minutes
CC? C compiler?
@@Roflcopter4b closed captions
S̴͓̅͐i̴͍̰̓̈ḇ̶̳̈́e̴͉̒ḽ̸̫̅̿i̷̲̩̒ù̷͖̣̋s̸͈̈́̈́ ̴̯͕͠͠C̴̡̈̑r̸̩̀a̶̡̤͘s̵̳͊͠h̶͍̀e̷̦̕ḑ̵̖̔͋
Thanks for noticing!
@@colecube8251 i.e. subtitles?
"The cheese melts in the microwave, the music melts in Sibelius"
--Tantacrul, Nov 15, 2018
The smartest and most coherent thing I've ever said.
@Downward Spiral
Your username and the quote fit so well together that I think you should marry
SIBELIUS CRASHED
I was literally in tears laughing at that point.
【ＴＨＥ ＢＬＡＣＫ ＢＥＡＭＳ ＣＡＮ ＳＴＲＥＴＣＨ， ＴＨＥＹ ＣＡＮ ＳＴＲＥＴＣＨ ＶＥＲＹ ＨＩＧＨ】
This genuinely taught me how to input tempo, I'm not joking.
It's easy more easier than that!
You know that while you are writing the score, you can change the note length by the numpad.
If you enter the tempo text, you hit ctr and the corresponding numpad key
@@alhdgysz Ah yes, quite intuitive...you know I think I might have discovered that by spilling my coffee.
@@liesdamnlies3372 the interesting part is this: the drop-down containing the character so shows the keyboard shortcut....
The "right-click" to obtain the menu (which does not actually "drop down" from anywhere) is the thing I hate the most in Sibelius. I have to look it up every time.
@@christydavidpallanivel1708 that is not avid's fault......
When he said he might go a bit off the rails I expected an angry rant, not..Existential Horror in Fmajor.
This is my new favorite video of all time.
"Existensial Horror in Fmajor" that is just... godly. I'm gonna have to write that down somewhere.
More like cosmic horror; what the heck even is existential horror?
@@KnakuanaRka horror that makes you question existence.
I feel like it could we worthy of usage of the Locrian mode
Sibelius crashed
Congratulations to the entire team for Musescore 4.
Finally a worthy software to dethrone this mess.
Unfortunatedly it crashes every time you trie to copy and paste some instrument...
Anomalous problem
MS4 is great, except for the fact that you need a separate window for each project despite the fact that tabs are BUILT IN TO THE UI
@@puernatura8998hopefully tantacrul will fix that
@@HRBJHD Won't work, because open source
I’m not a musician, or a software designer. I’ve never heard of this application, nor have I ever watched a video by this guy. I have absolutely no idea why this video was recommended to me, but do I regret watching it 5 times? Absolutely not! The arc of gradual madness displayed in this cinematic masterpiece is absolutely amazing. The clashing forces of Tantacruel, our protagonist, and Sibelius, our mad god villain. The story told between these two opposing parties is beautifully absorbing and incredibly Lovecraftian. Thank you, algorithm. And thank you, Tantacruel.
The product manager and the sales manager must have hanged themselves. Then again, they are responsible for this mess. Except for the even worse AVID bosses who decided to guillotine the product overnight instead of overhauling it. Great management, AVID ! Now you have a much better competitor called Dorico, made by the very own employees you sacked ! Not that you care since you killed your own product in the first place.
It's notable that ProTools is following a similar shitty path. While it's still widely used in studios only for habit reasons, it's now a subpar software if compared to the competition.
Dude, believe, me: I work with this baby program EVERY SINGLE DAY (beacuse I hate Finale) and I can tell you: There's no inch of this video that I do not LOVE! Specially the Lynchean style of the last minutes. Well, Lynch/Cronemberg... LOVED IT BIG TIME!
I like how this is the exact same comment as the one above it
Bitwig?
Boy, if you had ever used Avid's Sibelius, you would have suffered at seeing this, our daily dream & nightmare.
Late to comment, but:
This video is actually a better tutorial on how to use Sibelius than any other I've seen...
Tells how bad tutorials are.
But we kinda know that already.
Yea right ? At least now i know how to change the actual tempo not the one on the pane thingy
"How to use Sibelius: don't."
William Bieneman Took the words RIGHT outta my mouth.
I tried looking up a tutorial but Sibelius crashed
i dont even own it
I just wanna praise how well done the subtitles are. Perfectly capturing your comedic timing.
Thank Pentameron for those! He has a special level of commitment!
@@Tantacrul Aren't You Pentameron?
@@Hola-wg8nw No Pentameron is a different guy who traditionally does my subtitles.
@@Tantacrul Oh hey, thanks for the shoutout!
Don't you hate when you finish the video and the comments are like, "Wow, the thing that you had turned off by default and only exists 10% of the time sure adds to the great experience!"
One thing I disagree with: the search function taking you to where the button can be found is a good thing in my opinion - first time users will find themselves navigating the ribbon more easily going forward when they can remember where the thing was last time.
But of course this only matters when the ribbon is actually functional.
the solution then would be to highlight it when you _hover_ over the option, but actually perform the action when you click it.
@@chroma.z Not a UI designer, but it seems like that would create a flickering mess where different ribbons are entered when hovering over different options. It would also overwrite whatever ribbon you were in, which can be a bit frustrating when you're "in the zone". The most common solution to this problem is to type out the search path (e.g. Home -> Select to find Filters), which is used in Photoshop.
It just feels very passive aggressively, as strange as that sounds. I would prefer something that would tell me what buttons to press in order, and then a "show me" button to click if I DO want it to drag me to what to click on. Unless I go through the process myself I won't remember
Illustrator does this righ
Yes and no . . . I use the little search box a lot. It's very annoying at times. Other times it's what I'm looking for.
I loved this video.
The princess is in another dialog box!
This one is filled with gore
@@informitas0117 Aren't all princesses filled with gore?
💀
@@TheAgamemnon911 well........ yes
“Slightly off the rails”
THE MUSIC IS BLEEDING
open the dialog...
_i t ' s f i l l e d w i t h g o r e_
Not gonna lie, I might accidentally break something had a thing like that happened to me. Glad this is just video editing.
Uhhh where's the send butt-OHGODHELP%#_
[Sibelius crashed]
The music is so busy the audio sounds like two radio stations played at the same time ..
The first time I saw this video, I was really ill and out of it at the time, so when the video starts going a bit crazy I thought i'd finally snapped. It was hilarious, but like, I had no idea how much of it was real. Really added to the experience honestly.
It's impressive to see a UI more labyrinthian and inconsistent than Dwarf Fortress.
Omg how
Hey, at least Dwarf Fortress is playable now! It only took like a decade and a half.
@@Huntracony nah, they just replaced inconsistent text menus with different inconsistent text menus and occasionally - with 5 pixel wide pictograms. I’d stick to the classic for now, at least it’s free.
@@AntonNidhoggr I've tried and given up on classic multiple times in the past. I've not had any major problems with the Steam version. I've not had to look up how to do anything so far. I wouldn't call it _good_ UI, but it's usable.
Here's a problem with the Steam version: it's 40 dollars
i dont do music notation, have never heard of this app, and have no idea why youtube suggested this to me, but i had a lot of fun watching your descent into madness
stay strong, my dude
Same. And I showed all my musician friends 8 months ago when it was originally recommended.
Today it was recommended again.
same, this came out of absolutely nowhere and im not sure why i clicked on it, but im so glad i did
me too thanks
I'm not a musician, and don't use notation software. But I work at a musician's store and I do use game development software, so I just chalked this up to "google listened to me through my phone again and gave me a recommendation based loosely on my hobbies".
That was hilarious! I hope he finds the ability to make a living doing UA-cam.
This turned into a "Don't Hug Me.I'm scared" video. I went from smiling to crying my eyes out laughing fast.
You mean you weren't doing both?
What do you mean it was funny the. Whole way through for me though that may be the valium and nitrous oxide talking (commenting from the dentist's office)
Green is not a creative color.
@@liamkennedy8768 He meant a nervous laugh, with tears and eveything.
Same
I genuinely love how random “Be careful when turning the pancakes, you drop them and they have to go in the bin” (17:51) is.
Gives off the impression it's easier to write a score by hand and then scan it.
It is!
Samuel and I use Sibelius every single day for notating the piano arrangements we release on our channel. I've used it for 13 years myself (started with Sibelius 2). But even having used the ribbon since its release in 2011, to this day it's remained unintuitive and functions I'm looking for tend not to be where I expect. The old menu system was easier to use. Ribbons in Sibelius have never really made sense to me. -Andrew
Haha, holy shit, a Sheet Music Boss comment on a video that has no likes? What a surprise.
What are your thoughs on Musescore?
@Elijah The Corgi Not sure the missus would approve of me throwing another decade on the mortgage lol
Ribbons never improved word either.
Unreal Russian Shit soundfonts, no suspended cymbals, text support is abysmal, the stems can fly they can fly really high, midi support crashes
Otherwise, it's a very nice piece of software
Dear CEOs/Project Managers/Investors,
this is what happens when you say "the company doesn't need a UI/UX designer".
@@weakspirit_ imagine a world without Ncurses
*shudders*
the crushing majority of those designers is as dangerous as a toddler with grenade
not because ui/ux designers have something special
but simply because the crushing majority of _any_ category of software creators is as dangerous as a toddler with a grenade
As an interaction designer, I suffer both mentally and physically watching this.
"Sorry Tantacrul! But the time signature button is in another parameter box!"
so glad this popped up in my recommended again because this is maybe my favorite video on this site
Wait 'till you see Musescore and Dorico ones :)
Like this video. Sibelius Crashed
Yeah this, Star Trek Acid Party, and Waffle Falling Over, and then maybe just delete the rest of UA-cam
@@thecianinator I just want you to know that I love you for making me discover the Star Trek Acid Party, I'm pretty into weird deep youtube videos and this might be one of the greatest of all. I watched all of it, it was quite an experience. Thank you, you made my day
It’s my favorite video on UA-cam as well, and I don’t even use musical notation software
The fact that this video was automatically suggested to me after spending a whole week looking up forums answers and video tutorials for this god forsaken software pleases me.
That makes me happy :)
did you ever figure out how to use it?
You know it's a great and intuitive piece of software when you have to google absolutely every little thing you want to do. Even better when the answer usually is "no, you can't do that."
Actually, that's a little scary...
666 likes - the devil put this vid in your suggestions - he is teasing you with little screaming parts of hell!
The reoccuring "Quit Sibelius" gag had me rolling.
Can we all just appreciate the creativity put into the subtitles of this video?
I left the subtitles on, not because I need them, but just how fun they are to read.
Glad you enjoyed it!
“This software should be called Morton Feldman” is a joke that I don’t have the background to understand, but I can just feel that it’s hilarious.
For those who don't get it, Feldman's later and more famous pieces are known to be several hours long.
@@PentameronSV hllol
Pentameron Yes, but I feel like the joke was that Morton Feldman worked with chance in his music (using things like a deck of cards to determine notes), not unlike how some of Sibelius’s features were made.
@@PentameronSV And I guess nobody undertstands this music
Morton Feldman experimented with chance and uncertainty in some of his music notation. In his sheet music, certain things (such as note duration, or exact pitches) are left up to chance. Thus: "It's almost like the position of things was decided by the roll of the dice. This app should be called Morton Feldman!"
Started off as a rant on Sibelius' awful design, ended with a nightmare-fueled LSD trip birthed by the seven demons of hell
It literally was like the first episode of Don't Hug Me I'm Scared all over again.🥴😱💀
@@kerserzthescientist8899 Well thanks for opening up that pandoras box for me, holy moly
4th
10th
WTH did I just watch...?
The sheer sense of relief I felt when you changed the "add or remove" button to a plus says it all
i was expecting "going off the rails" to be like a rant or something but was instead greeted with beautiful existentialist poetry
I watched this video and Sibelius crashed.
I don't even have it installed.
Haha!
:-))
I'm on Android and it still crashed
@@Henrix1998 Same.
I think that UI might have given me cancer.
Haven’t been born yet? Sibelius crashed.
The last 5 minutes of this video felt like psychosis.
S I B E L I U S C R A S H E D
it was awesome lol
Which is also indeed the general mood when working with the software in question
It slowly turns into a Mr Plinkett gag.
If you li-
If you li-
I regularly come back here when I feel frustrated with Sibelius. I often send the link to my GCSE and A level music students whenever they moan about how hard it is to use.
Gcse music was hell with this
Hey, you want some good news? Tantacrul (this guy, the guy who made this vid) did another on open source program MuseScore... which resulted in them hiring him as their product lead. He has since whipped it into shape, turning it from a very-good-for-a-free-program program and made it into something beautiful and joyful to use with the latest 4.0 release. Maybe transition to that. Try it out!
I used musescore for my composition. Not much work and a high grade, thanks tantacrul!
After watching the musescore 4 video, I really appreciate the wonderful playback and workflow. I decided to revisit the notation series as everyone of them is a dramatic masterpiece. Can't wait for the finale...finale.
Finale was the first notation programme I bought. Small and valuable.
I honestly do not believe I have ever laughed so hard at anything before in my life, and I hardly know anything about music. This is by far the best review of anything I have ever seen. "The chees melts amber yellow, Sibelius memts red. The music is bleeding. I bring down the drop-down. It is filled with GORE.
It's somehow worse than Corsair's original CUE interface for adjusting the RGB lights. That monstrosity required you to basically memorize the 120-page manual in order to get anything done, but at least you could get instantaneous feedback on what you were doing.
This video. This cursed video. It has been popping up in my recommended for MONTHS. I never paid any attention to it. I always glanced over it, never making a conscious record of it. But I knew of its existence. I wasn't expecting it to return to my recommended feed, but was never surprised when it did. No, "not surprised" isn't the right term here. It felt /right/ in my recommended feed. Never being clicked on, but never being paid enough attention to to click away.
Until today. I don't know what happened, but today I did something I've never done before: I read this video's title. I was surprised I had never read the title, since the thumbnail had grown so familiar, yet here I was actively reading those words for the first time. It intrigued me, and I clicked, knowing that I could be doing better, more productive things with my 21 minutes and 34 seconds.
The video itself was surprisingly good. The subject matter clicked with me. Somehow, this video which kept returning, yet never being too firm when asking my attention, gave me a lot more entertainment than imagined. And now I'm here. I've watched it. It won't return. Other videos might. But the familiarity is gone. And, in a sense, some safety is too.
Sibelius crashed.
House of Leaves: Sibelius Edition
This could be a novel
@@sebastianmorataboada9795 ??
@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet "House of Leaves" is one good but very confusing book, up to the point when it's still up to debate whether it's about terror or actually about love (as the author said himself)
I forgot music people humour hurts
we're starting to use sibelius in school, and I wasn't too sure exactly what it was. This vid was the first to pop up, and i'm starting to think I've got some torture waiting for me in the future...
What school were you at?
remember: to subscribe to a channel, open the account menu, click the three dots at the end, and then click the "save" option; "subscribe" will be the 2nd option in the notification (trumpet) drop-down (sorted in reverse alphabetical)
Ive learned too many of Sibelius's kinks to ever think of switching to something else. Sibelius has beaten me into submission. I often wonder what other music notation software is like... but then I remind myself the horrors of learning the kinks of a new music notation program and reassure myself that even though Sibelius still beats the living shit out of me on a daily basis... I know I have it coming to me. I deserve it. Somewhere deep down Sibelius still loves me. So I stick around.
Oh my goodness you've helped me understand why people keep using horrible systems (...and stay addicted to bad things and get stuck in all kinds of negative patterns...). It's not your fault!
If all your practical experiences are of using something that is terrible and depressing, and you have no experiential knowledge of alternatives that let you complete your goals more easily+positively, what right does your brain have to assume that the different approaches that you know are out there might actually be easier, more fun, less work, not a drudge to switch over to, and worth the effort?
Sibelius doesn't love you. You are in an abusive relationship! You have learned it's kinks in order to better serve it, but it still doesn't appreciate it. You can still leave this relationship. Find help in a local shelter near you, or in Musescore or whatever.
I think that's called Stockholm syndrome
@Max Designs Not natively within Sibelius itself, but my version of Sibelius was bundled with a program called Audioscore that can transcribe audio. I never tried it or downloaded it though
Everyone here is proving deep philosophical comments and I’m here like
‘Hehe he said kink big funny”
"If Beethoven was alive today, Sibelius would prevent him from composing music."
That line broke me.
One man's descent into pure insanity over the horrendously annoying application known as Sibelius.
Sibelius crashed.
Quit Sibelius!
@@davinchristino Sibelius Crashed
17:15 "add slurs to lyrics" is that a music comp thing i don't know about?
Holy crap- I never noticed that!!
I hope to Christ that's either a silly edit on Tantacruel's part, or a musical term that means something else than what we think...
@@0_dearghealach_083 A "slur" in music notation is a curved line that connects multiple notes between pitches to indicate it should transition smoothly between them, as in with additional notes.
The escalation at the end is perfectly executed, i love this and i love you
There’s a new, absurdist, multimedia, artistic movement going on through UA-cam. This shit inspires me... might just have to jump in and join you cool kids.
P.s. Eric if you haven’t seen it check out “The Interface” - a web series by UA-cam channel “Umami”
Did anybody else literally cry with laughter? No?
@SpiderShlongGaming yeah I hadn't really considered the multimedia nature of Umami, but yeah it's there. Also I see it in the indie games like Stardew Valley that are coming out where there's one person creating the game and music all in one.
The escalation... *at the end*? The beautiful part about this is that the escalation is there from the beginning, but increases in a very subtle way :)
The problem is Sibelius wasn't designed, it was engineered.
I was a beta tester of the Sibelius of chess software: Aquarium, I remember seeing it fall to become gradually unusable from version to version in a similar fashion, with a similar poor usage of the Ribbon (used to be called "Fluid UI") and I just gave up and quit after the main feature, the only reason to use Aquarium, "IDeA" (Interactive DEep Analysis) became unusable from one version to the next.
I had never seen such an abomination of poor UI design until today, because despite all its problems, Aquarium is peanuts to Sibelius in that respect. Whoa!
@@justcomments335 Yes, I watched this with my brother and this video scared him, his crying wasn't so joyful
beats finale.
also, killer video.
I certainly thought the same thing when I originally made my choice. Need to go back to Finale and see if the years have been kind. Thanks, btw. Enjoy your stuff a lot.
@@Tantacrul Granted, I don't know of anybody who disagrees with the general premise of this video - the implementation of the ribbon in Sibelius 7 was godawful. I use hotkeys anyway, so I'm never up there in the ribbon, but when I do, it's just miserable.
Still beats Finale. God does that program suck.
Having used Finale since about 1989, I'm curious to know what you two don't like about it. Getting through Finale's initial learning curve and unhelpful user manuals was brutal in 1989. But since then I have had no issues with it, and I only remember hearing horror stories from those using Sibelius. Finale just released version 26 on October 10, 2018, and I'd be interested in more useful comparison besides "Finale isn't very good" or "beats finale."
@@jbh001 Then you best subscribe because a Finale review is coming. And it's coming in hot!
As the kids say, "big mood"
Do I compose music: ❌
Can I play more than the first two notes of Für Elise
: ❌
Have I watched this multiple times: HELL YEAH
As a UX designer, I would show this video to all the employers that think that they know better than their users. Great work!
I'm a professional Mariachi band composer... and I find your dismissal of our beloved art form HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!
@@philipkapadia1852 What a patriarchal, sexist, racist comment! How dare you assume my gender!
The Mariachi Band Composer Union local 224 will hear of this!
@@I_leave_mean_comments what did they even say?
@@savagenovelist2983 Something patriarchal, sexist and racist, as well as assumed the person's gender.
@@I_leave_mean_comments
shut fuck up guy presumably with head
Hahaha
Sibelius crashing while trying to close it? Well task failed successfully I guess
You could have some memory leak issues if you don't deallocate memory correctly when closing a program but you are mostly correct.
Doesn't OS automatically clean-up all memory associated with a process when it shuts down?
@@danilafoxpro2603 When the OS shuts down yes, but in my experience you shouldn't assume that all memory got deallocated when you shut something off. Managed to take up all ram in my computer while ironically making a memory game due to me not propperly deallocating objects when the program was finished and me testing it many times in a row.
Huh. Which OS/language did you use, if you don't mind me asking?
I tested it with C++ (although the code might compile in C too) on Windows 7 64bit (compiling for 32bit though), with the following code: collabedit.com/ese32.
The program tries to allocate around 200MB of memory and then crashes (, the finest crash I'm capable of, memory access violation). I profiled it via 'Task Manager' performance tab, and all memory allocated to the program seems to be deallocated.
(I also tested launching a bunch of instances of the program at the same time, so the total memory taken goes to 2GB, and have done it multiple times, with all programs crashing each time. Memory seems to always return to pre-program launch levels.)
I'm using C++, so I can use pointer wrappers; Pointers that automatically deallocate when going out of scope, pointers that count references and auto-deallocate when nothing references them, you name it. But I still use raw pointers sometimes, and sometimes I forget to free them. I guess I'm the adventurous type.
15:06 I just love how the right arrow is misaligned.
The fact that I'm watching this 5 years later and almost nothing about the ribbon layout has changed 😅
When you realise that every button or tickbox or input box could lead to the crash of Sibelius, thus every clickable action of Sibelius equals „quit Sibelius“.
I’ve only ever had Sibelius crash when trying to export HD video, which is still irritating, but not the experience everyone seems to have.
"The black beams can stretch, they can stretch really high."
I died. I absolutely died laughing.
17:03 for anyone interested.
It was that way with the ancient version of Finale I used, too. Things like stretching beams was easy, you'd learn to do that on your own without even trying. probably without even wanting to.
But something common like an anacrusis you would have no chance to figure out on your own; I think you had to click on one button to change another button and then right-click for a context menu on that again.
I nearly died too.
You can really see the point where he starts to lose it.
Those beams are gonna need some extra structural support.
Rip in piece
'Even Finale does this better.' should be taken as the insult it is.
After watching his video on Musescore 4 I decided to come back here where it all began. Tantacrul deciding he's done with notation software being an incomprehensible mess and drastically improving it forever was a huge powermove. As the saying goes: If you want something done right, do it yourself.
I had no idea that I'd laugh this hard watching a music notation app review.
It's the wildest ride when the craziness seeps in
I don't even use Sibelius or music notation software but this video's seriously engaging and these issues exist across the spectrum of software.
Same here.
This video is a masterpiece... The music and random crap really adds to it... I actually laughed at a factual review of bad software...wtf
As a 0 time Sibelius user, I enjoyed every minute of this video. There must been some hard work done for all the smart subtle changes and the ever escalating BGMs.
17:02 "the black beams can stretch. they can stretch really high" XD. it always gets me. dont know why. i guess its that your delivery, you sound concerned about it XD
The first thing our music teacher told is about Sibelius was “if in doubt, press esc”
I didn’t realise how useful that advice would be
And then Apple removed the physical ESC Key :D
And reintroduced it. Sibelius users?
Muse score is arguably less frustrating, and free.
@@guitarplayer1994 Tantacrul is one. On Windows the buttons says "Exit Sibelius" though it's still where "Next"/"Finish"/"Create" should be.
If you dare press the escape key though...
*s i b e l i u s c r a s h e d*
Now the first advice is: use Dorico instead.
Me and my friend understand almost zero when it comes to music theory - let alone writing it - but we're just psyching out shouting "Sibelius crashed!" now.
A friend shoved Sibelius Crashed down my throat and here I am.
My musician friends don't even use Sibellius but we shout that when things go wrong now.
[Quit Sibelius]
That's ok, Sibelius understand almost zero when it comes to interface design - let alone developing one
17:43 One of the beaters in the insanely large drop-down menu is simply labelled "?". What?! How?!
I just want to point out that subtitles are actually doing great job in expressing what's going on with the voice. Thank you 💖
Glad to have helped!
I remember having to use this in school for our composition module and people actually getting worse marks on their exams because we only had 4 weeks and Sybelius made it next to impossible for anyone to write any of their coursework because we were obviously never taught how to use it in depth.
If I ever saw that software walking on the street I would take it out with my bare hands in broad fucking daylight, I would do time, and I would smile forever
LOL ... yup. I went to Humber college's bachelor of music program, and Sibelius was required in our 2nd year theory class. Yikes, bad times. I actually use guitar pro for all of my notation needs now, because it is 500 times more intuitive.
Oh hey, that literally just happened to me in the same circumstances for the same reason. Funny how nothing changes
@@captainkiwi77 Is this version still being used in education????? That deserves a petition quite honestly
I've never even considered writing music, and yet looking at Sibelius side-by-side with any of its competitors I've seen, it looks like something made by an army of sixth graders.
"Parameter dump" is a really good term for this. Some of these dialogue boxes feel only one step removed from just a list of parameters and their values.
There's a lot of features, but very little thought about the actual workflow.
Editing a JSON file would be easier. At least then you could automate it a bit.
"Why when I select these buttons, do they look like half filled barrels of urine?"...Brilliant review. Insightful and hilarious. I don't feel so bad about having wasted all that money on Sibelius now. I bought it years ago and paid for a couple of upgrades after the initial purchase, but never got on with it. Now I understand why :)
You need to turn on the subtitles!! They also get crazier as the video progresses! Take a look at when sibelius crashes at 20:12 for example
Glad you liked it!
I love the tangents you go on. Like, who puts a little Elizabeth Olsen tangent in the middle of a video about Sibelius with no context? Tantacrul does that.
It'd be more intuitive to engrave a composition in MS Paint compared to Sibelius.
The Exiled Nomad. And the paint version would STILL have a higher chance of playing back to you the way you wrote it.
Beethoven would do that.
I dont compose music. But I think I would much rather just sketch short music out in a program like photoshop. With the different details being different layers you can just move around
@@gemstonegynoid7475 no
Thank you. As a software designer myself, I found your knowledge very helpful, as now I can confidently build my page on Elizabeth Olsen.
I had to use this app to make scores as homework for an advanced drum class I was taking and probably 80% of my time was spent trying to figure out where stuff was and how to do really obvious things
*THE BLACK BEAMS CAN STRETCH THEY CAN STRETCH REALLY HIGH*
lmao
I had to use Sibelius for music class. I dropped the class pretty quickly but before then pretty much all I did in that program was stretch the bars into infinity
9:13 I'm honestly surprised they don't call the piano a 'pianoforte.'
Nah it is, you just gotta go find it in the Expression box, along with fortepiano, piano, mezzoforte and so on, as the only thing in there is piano, which is keyboard, which you have right in front of you, like what I'm typing on. Saxes on the other hand, is way harder, because they are in the notation bit, where you kind find the clefs Alto Saxophone, Tenor Saxophone, but not Sub Baritone Sax, then you gotta to lines, where the octave line is, as you can't use clefs to show it during the score, except for the first bar of a system. The issue with this video, is that we don't need an instrument button, all the instruments should be addable from their sections, like Piano in the expression bit, and so on... The cheese melts, whilst Finlandia burns...
I lost 30 IQ points just by trying to understand this
@@aspensinclair3253 Now you know my pain.
To be honest, I don't know how to find people who translate videos. I'm foreign, but I speak English quite enough to get the idea of this video. God, that's awesome content!
And this video is so good I had to send it to my friends. Who do(es?)n't speak english (I'm not that good at English, sorry). BUT! Thanks to THE man who made those subtitles, they could understand! And I really like those subtitles. Thumbs up!
Please, could anyone help me and tell how to adress my special thanks to the person who translated it all? Thanks.
Tantacrul already credits the captions creator in the video description.
Oh wait...
That's me!
The same guy who did Tantacrul's other software reviews as well as some of his latest videos.
Glad to hear that you appreciated the captions! I feel I went even more bonkers in the Dorico video.
@@PentameronSV Here we go! There is THE GUY who made those captions!
Lemme hug you for your excelent job, good sir!
Oh. My. God! You even translated some of ElectroBoom's! L-L-Like!
Sure gonna check out your Dorico content!
wait.. you didn't translate it, you just edited it. well, good work still!
But I wish I could find the person who translated it so well.
@@EgorkaKuzmin Oh, I just realised that there are captions in other languages on the video as well. Yeah, these contributors deserve thanks as well.
@@PentameronSV I apprechiate them too. I have written multible Captions for longer Videos like this, and I know, how time consuming it can be.
And let me tell you: I am not entirely sure, but i Even think, that it was were your Captions which inspired me to start subtiteling, but they definetly inspired me!
Thank ya
18:50 the point of no return
i was fine until "the black beams can stretch, they can stretch really high!" and "let's take a hairpin and stretch it to the next page- oh no, hairpin's busted."
Instructions unclear: I now have a platter of pancakes covered in blood and melted cheese.
M3L0619 Did Sibelius crash?
@@tepetti S I B E L I U S C R A S H E D
Well did you tr- *S I B E L I U S C R A S H E D*
He specifically asked for clean pancakes!
Sibelius quit itself.
I think this single video contains almost all the UI UX concepts that I had learnt for an entire semester !! So glad I stumbled onto your channel !! ❤
I'm neither a musician, or a software developer but this has been one of the most entertaining things I've seen in years - having used some equally comically designed software in the past.
So they go with violoncello but not pianoforte???
I know ... at least have some consistency bloody hell
Pianoforte or fortepiano. They couldn't choose.
Search engine from the 90s roflmao
@@pixiepandaplush
What about pianofortepiano then?
@@nextlifeonearth Hey, I don’t mind. My colleagues who use Maya have the same thing. However, Maya is highly customisable. One has to find a command once and then add it to a shelf or make a shortcut.
“I bring up the drop down, but it’s filled with gore.”
-Tantacrul, 2018
This is the best tutorial ever on Sibelius.
By pointing out the non-intuitive features, this tutorial uncovers how to access those features.
AVID should hire you as a consultant to help improve their product.
This is art. The breakdown sequence at the end was hilarious
3D modeling softwares: *Allow us to introduce ourselves*
More like 3DS
Try Rhinoceros. Max is madness. Sketchup is made by monkeys. Rhinoceros is the only UI that makes sense. Also, Rhino is good. Also, NURBS - Because mesh editing is so 1998.
@@UnitSe7en Here come the blender fanboys... Personally I think Rhino is only really good because of Grasshopper. It's a shader based workflow for 3D modelling.
@@UnitSe7en I love Fusion 360, and have found it really easy to learn.
@@Croz89 gotta admit, as a user of maya, blenders' new ui just feels so nice. I'm going to look into rhinoceros, because maya is just an embodiment of a development team strangled by its stakeholders.
"If Beethoven was alive today, Sibelius would have prevented him from being a composer" 😂😂😂
This is an easy contender for one of my favorite YT videos of all time. Masterpiece.
Damn!! Thanks, i was struggling to find where the audio devices are for the whole day and you came and rescued.
A fantastic and somehow genuinely disturbing thing about this video is how the music becomes increasingly more unhinged, and matches the narrative of the commentary perfectly.
𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙐𝙄 𝙞𝙨 𝙛𝙪𝙡𝙡 𝙤𝙛 𝙜𝙤𝙧𝙚
𝐒𝐢𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐮𝐬 𝐜𝐫𝐚𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐝
How do you type in those different fonts?
@@InventorZahran Here you go:
lingojam.com/FancyLetters
wow its almost as if that was the intention
Quit Sibelius
*SibEliuS CRAsHed*
Read email.
§ÌßÈLÌÚ§ ÇRħHÈÐ.
Task failed successfully
In my computer it actually crashes and restarts when i quit, i have to end with with task manager or else i get stuck in a loop
The gradual decline to mental break in this video is done better then any movie ive ever seen.
This is one of those videos I come back to every few months and I keep finding new things
My Sibelius crashed while I was finishing writing a fugue for an 18 hour exam, I was actually in pain. Knowing now that I'm not alone in this make me feel a little better.
This video made my day, thanks man!
Man, that sucks. How'd your exam go?
A, did you save beforehand?
B, how was the exam?
@@KnakuanaRka luckily I'm quite obsessed with saving every 5 minutes, so I didn't lose too much work, but I almost had a heart attack. At the end it went well ;)
@@lifeontheledgerlines8394 Very good despite all the trouble! I saved everything a while before so the work wasn't lost for good :)
@@camimilks Oh, I'm glad you didn't lose all your work, that would've been horrible. Wel, I'll use your story as motivation to save more often because I do not save often enough, and if I was in your shoes, I would've been screwed. Well, have a nice day! Your exams, and depending on your location, school year are probably done, so enjoy the summer.
“The labels are pretty clear” *hovers mouse over the word clear*
underrated comment!
3:51 "Protools, a solid easy to use workstation....."- me screaming at my computer saying NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!