I came here after recently rewatching the Sibelius video, and your comment had me laughing so hard I got into a coughing fit and it freaked out the cat.
Tantacrul: I think musescore could now do with some dedicated full-time designers to fix these problems Also Tantacrul: *gets hired to be said designer*
I just checked the logo on Musescore 3.6 and it does seem to have been changed... but it feels weird to change the logo without incrementing the major version number. Also, it reminds me of the Unison logo that Tantacrul said looks like a toilet trap (which is fine with me)...
I'm gonna say some mean things >:( *proceeds to give really constructive criticism which will probably help an open source project more than the professional software*
Yeah, that was nice. Other open source software doesn't get that luxury. People will say things like "GIMP sucks" and when you ask them why, they give answers so lacking in detail (even if they are valid criticism) that no one can really fix anything.
yeah ngl musescore 4 is very different than 3, sure a lot of the basics like pop up side windows are there but pop up screens are much more intuitive and it looks amazing too also the logo is fire now tbh, the colors really helped it a lot
Yeah the eye came across as a horrible idea to me, to be honest. I'd never click on it, eventually I'd forget it was there, and I'd wind up Googling everything it should be telling me. Actually that's a lot like Clippy isn't it? Maybe if the eye button was also turned into a cartoon character, like Mr. Jank! I still wouldn't use it but that would be kind of fun.
@@lrgogo1517 You're aware that "I'll show myself out" is almost always intended as a joke, right? More specifically, it's usually intended as acknowledgement that one has made a terrible pun/joke. I still think I have made a bad pun, so no, I haven't 180'd on that. Of course, it is very much possible your own comment may have been intended as a joke. In that case, don't mind me, disregard this comment.
I've never heard of MuseScore. I don't compose music. I can't even _read_ sheet music. Yet I just watched a half hour video on composing software. And I enjoyed it thoroughly.
So, this video came out in 2019, by which point I can remember being frustrated with a lot of this stuff. Now that Tantacrul's part of Musescore's design process, it's fascinating seeing how many of these problems have been fixed in the last year. Especially the little things talked about in Part 3. Now, as of May 2020: Whenever I delete an element spanning multiple notes, it automatically highlights the starting note so I can start there again. I no longer need to double-click on stuff to edit it. Copying and pasting now replaces old phrasing and dynamics with the copied/pasted dynamics and phrasing, which has sped up the score creation process considerably. I can change the spacing of staves and measures just by clicking and dragging. (I do still enter values into the sidebar often, since it helps with exact measurements, but clicking and dragging gets me in the ballpark a lot faster.) I can change the duration of multiple notes or rests at once. That ugly, clinical gray background is now a more soothing dark blue. I do mostly piano covers of songs I like, and one of those, which used to take me between five and seven hours, now takes an average of three. Two or less if I'm covering a song I really, really like. Even something as long as musescore.com/user/32136986/scores/6140950, which likely would have taken me more than 16 hours in 2018, only took me about six in 2020. Hats off to you, Tantacrul, and the rest of the MuseScore team. Thank you.
Keep in mind that this video is now slightly outdated. After Tantacrul made this video, the MuseScore community went out of its way to fix these issues with Tantacrul's advice, and now he's the lead designer for MuseScore.
But! As someone who uses MuseScore (and just downloaded the latest update before stumbling upon this video) several of his issues with the program have yet to be solved. It does seem like they're really taking his advice seriously, though. It's always nice to see a company really listen to their userbase.
I had the same feeling. However, the more I watch his videos on good design, the more I learn, and the better my own software looks/feels because of it (I hope anyway).
@@WarrenGarabrandt Yeah. I've got an interest in videogames, (weirdly enough, more on the creation, design side than on the playing side) and I've come to understand that User interface massively influences gameplay. And also, all the game's visuals and game world and sound are part of the user interface as well.
I see where you're coming from, but if you go watch the slow descent into the mind's abyss that is the Sibelius video, you will see that Tantacrul merely trashing an app is high praise.
Martin Krauser I hear you.. however impo it’s still mean to rant about sth. you actually think is good.. that’s how you get people drawn away from it cuz the think it’s sh#t.. and that’s especially important for openSource projects with communities like these.. without the community and contributors they are basically dead.....
@@thisisthefoxe I'm pretty sure anyone watching this video will see the other as well. Notation software review videos are a lot like heroin, or potato chips. I can guarantee you that this video brought a lot of people's attention to Musescore.
Are you people bulletproof to context? He made this video to criticize the app so the developers knew what they should fix, he's not gonna spend 20 minutes talking about all the great features, you could just ask a musescore user for that. & you must have difficulty paying attention too, praising of the app was sprinkled in amidst the criticism & he didn't spend the whole time thrashing it, a lot of the criticisms were minor improvements & things to work on.
This is so relatable. At school in music class while we didn’t use muse score, we had to use Sibelius and it was hilarious. Not only did it take ages to do the most basic things because we didn’t know our way around the bloody thing and had to learn to use it within an unrealistic timeframe, but we got to witness the pure anger and wrath of our music teacher towards the software as she wrestled it into working properly... when it wasn’t crashing.
And he mentioned on his Twitter that one of the first bits of feedback he got from the core development team was they thought he was pulling his punches a bit!
How can you be so sarcastic and so respectful at the same time? It's always good to see someone giving constructive criticism on the internet instead of just trolling around. I use MuseScore for years. When I was learning how to write I used Guitar Pro. Then I move up to Finale, but it was a pain in the a** to learn and write. I think I gave up from Finale back in 2008~10 and started to use MuseScore. In was so good I'm still using it. If someday I can buy another app I'll probably donate the money to MuseScore and continue to use it. It is helping me for so many years, it would be fair to repay the kindness.
I just opened MuseScore 4 after watching this, and OH BOY, has it improved! Thank you for all your hard work, Tantacrul and the rest of the MuseScore team!
This is …just fantastic. Pure generosity posing as snark, and the MuseScore team is taking notes … So. Much. Win. Faith in humanity restored (for today at least). Thanks Tantacrul, and thanks MuseScore team!
Exactly my thoughts. The critiques are spot-on, but I also really appreciate the fact that you point out the future security inherent in of open source software, the vibrant community involved in MuseScore, and the responsiveness of developers to questions and suggestions. As a long-time Sibelius user who is trying to switch to an open-source workflow (and who is sick of Avid), I'm really rooting for this piece of software!
I've used Finale since 2004 and Sibelius and I can say confidently that MuseScore is seriously the easiest and most powerful to use out of any I've used. It should be seriously considered for all universities and schools.
Unfortunately the corporate world is very good at selling to institutions like schools, so they will continue to use bad software because a manager in a nice suit convinced them to
So to summarise: At first glance MuseScore looks shit. At second glance MuseScore actually looks decent. Upon a thorough third glance MuseScore is shiiiiiiit, though ironically still better than competitors. Yep, can confirm as a casual user.
@Nathaniel Walker see, I've tried both and I'd have to thoroughly disagree. For context, I use Dorico, and although I have found many, many holes in its functionality (oh my god trying to box stemless notes throughout a score is a disaster), I do prefer it to both MuseScore and Sibelius. However, there are many considerations to be taken in with this debate, especially as it pertains to the context of the application MuseScore is free. Sibelius is... not. In fact, for my personal needs, Sibelius is $599.99 plus tax away from free (and I only would have to pay the extra for PhotoScore anyways). MuseScore lacks in its efficiency of fundamental music engraving. It takes ages to engrave music using MuseScore, especially in large scores. (I tried writing both a field band concept and an orchestral symphony, and gave up due to the lack of workflow efficiency in engraving the score). In fact, I always joke that if I started publishing works I wrote on MuseScore, I'd not have free software because "that software is bundled with an expensive copyist to do the work for me." The lack of efficiency causes me to lose time, patience, and the desire to keep working. While this is a large shortcoming, the difference is that the un-intuitive feel is in the details for me. I can find everything perfectly fine, it's just a matter of how it works once I find it. Sibelius is irritating in that it takes forever to find what one may be looking for. I ended up writing down on scrap paper where each engraving option is that I use, just in case I can't find it. Of course, as I moved from housing to housing in college, I lost that sheet. That's when I decided to buy my own software, as I simply lost all hope in trying to ever use Sibelius again. I went in to continue working, and found that it took me ages to find the options I wanted. While both inhibit the efficiency of workflow, I FEEL like I'm making more progress in working with Musescore. At least, as I copy over each separate unit of engraving from one voice to the next, I can tell myself, "That's one more down." With Sibelius, I feel like the act of finding any option is halting any work I do. It doesn't matter that everything can be copied at once if I can't find those elements to begin with. tl;dr: MuseScore can be inefficient, Sibelius can feel suffocating. Dorico isn't perfect but it's far superior to anything. Except maybe Noteflight ;)
@@ThePeaterBeater Exactly. For all the things that Sibelius does better than Musescore... is it really worth 600 - six hundred - bucks? If it were, like, 20 bucks, or even 60, I'd consider it. But the exorbitant price - and that's most music notation programs, not just Sibelius - is simply not justified.
@@ThePeaterBeater Personally my starting point is Dorico 3 (after not feeling very comfortable using MuseScore and discouraged from trying to get Sibelius or Finale), and after using Dorico for a while, I'd say that what really makes Dorico shine is that when writing the score, it takes considerably less mouse clicks, for I can do many stuffs on keyboard (rather than finding and clicking the button) comparing to having to click a lot in MuseScore. Just bringing this up because it kinda felt like it hasn't been discussed that much, while being the actual game changer for me.
It's kinda a niche market for most. And like, when it takes years to develop a piece of software that it's gonna sell much, of course there got to be some high price. I don't know if Sibelius justifies the price but Dorico kinda does, since it has a lot of things fine tuned that really improves the workflow. If people can justify spending $1000 on getting a Push2, then $600 for a good notation software is like, expensive but reasonable.
@@Gilmaris It's not only the cost of the program: I'm guessing that Sibelius makes files which only Sibelius can open and edit, while anyone can freely/legally write software which opens & edits MuseScore files. This is the beauty of true F/LOSS.
I just watch these for the production value and writing. I have never composed anything yet am compelled to listen to this overly intense Irish man giving free consultations for programmes I will never use. You could probably talk about tortoise surgery with me reaching for my beer. Bravo, I guess.
MuseScore's biggest plus imo is its community. The quickest way to get helped for a new user is often to ask a question on the forum. I have seën numerous cases where three answers were posted within a minute of the original post. More experienced users will gladly help newbies to get up to speed. If you know your way around, there are often shortcuts which make doing certain things much faster. Experienced users are very willing to share their wisdom on the forum. The community is also one of the very few online communities I know where people generally respect each other. (I am 20 years old and I use MuseScore because you can pay two months' rent for an apartment for the price of Sibelius et al.)
Louis Cloete I like the software and the community, but they are always royally screwing the web page (playback breaks every time I use it) and the mobile apps are just plain bad.
I used to grab random trialware programs off the web to convert between media types, pretty sure nearly all of them left pieces of themselves behind to phone home--pretty nasty. Now I just pipeline shit into ffmpeg or use handbrake if the command flags I need are too flaky. SO much better. Open source media software may be lagging a bit behind it's commercial competition, but it's so nice to see how far it's come.
Also, most of the scores on Musescore are utter garbage, but for transcriptions of less popular music, (video game music especially, doesn't get the attention it deserves) Musescore is the first place to go.
Omg I've been waiting for this one for so long Edit: I'm glad you recognise it's still developing state - it's a good program and for free software it does a fantastic job
That so unexpected comment raising something I never thought of. But of course, now I see it: if dyslexia is a trouble in ordering glyph sequences, it stands to reason that too similar waypoints cause spurious matches. Yeah, let's not forget that we are not all identical, and don't quite live in the same world, we just mostly share the illusion we do. There is a reason those wacky fonts and giant wriggling emotes exist, they correspond to people valuing things differently. Thus I suppose design is skewed to the taste of the kind of people that take on design work : orderly, idealized.
@@musaran2 You're correct. Webdings was only created to predict 9/11 😉 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia#Management < Second paragraph will lead to two fonts aimed at people with Dyslexia. Honestly I thought it was a joke to begin with, but maybe Papyrus is easier for some; however I highly doubt they, the early/earlier fonts, were made with this in mind ;) Case and point: "Costello created the font in 1982, when he was 23 years old and just out of college. He had been studying the Bible and came onto the idea of what a written font would have looked like in biblical times in the Middle East.[1] He hand-drew the font over a period of six months by means of calligraphy pen and textured paper. Costello described his goal as a font that would represent what English language texts would have looked like if written on papyrus 2,000 years ago.[2] Costello released the font the following year alongside Letraset. Papyrus has a number of distinctive characteristics, including rough edges, irregular curves, and high horizontal strokes in the capitals. ITC, the current owner of the typeface, describes it as an "unusual roman typeface [that] effectively merges the elegance of a traditional roman letterform with the hand-crafted look of highly skilled calligraphy".[3] Costello sold the rights for the font for $750, and as of 2017, states he still receives "very low" royalty payments despite its inclusion since 2000 on all personal computers using a Mac or Microsoft operating system.[1] In October 2017, Costello agreed that Papyrus had become overused.[4]" From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_(typeface) 750$ for a typeface.. I feel for the guy :)
@@MrMiss-cp9bw I was thinking that there could be a font better for dyslexic people than papyrus. I can see that one font has made the bottom of the letters bolder. A very clever fix that might work for some people.
Our brains like repetetive (= predictable) patterns, having a font that is "predictable" makes our brains go in low gear and a lot of what is read gets lost. Having cryptic signs in barely readable colors, the brain is in high performance mode anyway, so it goes the extra mile to memorize what is going on.
I've just watched this for the second time (first time was a few months ago) and honestly this is such a great video. Your criticism is in-depth, constructive and valid. You give pertinent and clear examples that are easy to follow and understand, even to people like me who have very limited experience with composition programs (I really only know a bit of Sibelius). And while a video like this could be very dry, your sense of humour makes it just a joy to watch and listen to. I feel bad for poor Shosty though - hasn't he been through enough in his life that you have to subject him to this? :D
I just realised that the reason for the video taking so long is that you are actually trying to use the program for your own projects and that makes your points more relateable. Thank you for making these videos. I don't even write music... I just like listening to some guy ranting about UI.
One thing I love about musescore is that in the top bar there's a little button that says concert pitch which makes composing for Bb trumpet and Eb sax a dream
@@grandpanoogie2665 saxes are eternally beloved by the general populace (bill Clinton!) And are one of the only horns that manage to find themselves crossed over into many other genres
@@jakeziccardi5317 many people do like the sound, myself included, but its past its prime in terms of use. Thankfully, there are some people still writing jazz out there. Not to say I hate any other genre of music, I just like jazz the mosy
Today, for the first time ever, I wanted to actually write down a clean version of some sheet music I had made lots of changes in. I remembered that I had seen MuseScore in this video a few years ago, downloaded the installer, opened it up and... it just worked. The only time I was confused was when I wanted to add text and it didn't work just by clicking it on the left... so I dragged it onto the sheet and voilà! Took me about an hour start to finish, simply excelent. Thanks to you and the entire team at MuseScore! ♥
I use MuseScore regularly… and I "like" it, mainly because it's free - I can't justify the expense of Sibelius - and because it gets the job done. But it's buggy and yes, kind of hideous to look at. I appreciate your sense of humor and the amount of work you've put into this video. Have you considered joining the MuseScore dev team? (Half joking.)
A little fact to know: The colours will be much better once you dig through the settings and activate the "Dark design", also there are quite some options to make it graphically more appealing
Edit --> Preferences --> General --> Theme, Select "Dark" where it says "Light" Also, in the Preferences under "Canvas" you can Change the colour of the paper (i don't think that changes the colour When printed though) and the background (I use the colour #4c3535 in the HTML field for the background).
Splitting an editor side by side is something very useful in programming. Like you edit one part of the code and have another part open on the side to refer to it. Perhaps the developers of Muse Score thought maybe that would also be useful for a music software? But in any case closing that tab should **NOT** close the project, but only the side view. In any code editor I know it only closes the side view.
Graphic designer here, love your breakdown of the icons & overall UI. I've been using the Segoe icon set in some recent UI concepts so I had a similar feeling about the icons in MuseScore.
Just an update: MS team has implemented a LOT of suggestions from the video. It is really impressive, thanks guys! @J T, @Marc Sabatella and many other developers, testers, supporters...
I don't comment often unless I am blown away. Today, I have a different reason. First of all, I'd like to thank MuseScore for being an approachable and usable software. Secondly, and most importantly, I love your videos and I literally cannot wait for your Finale video!
When reading the logo, the fermata over the "U" means that it's pronounced muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Where 17 seconds is the intro, with the title of the video in both text and spoken form. Then the whole scenario has to be explained, which I guess could be useful to make sure you're on the right track, but still waste of time.
I did not recognize the name Einaudi. I checked a UA-cam video. Thanks. I now have diabetes. I also feel quite disstressed, and slightly angry. Sitting still for ten minutes longing for one single slightly blue note, and never getting it. It's horrible.
@@Flowtail It's not "basic". Music is music. People can enjoy whatever they want. All music has value. None of it is "basic" or "tasteless" or any of that crap people like to say. People hate on music and musicians way too much. At the end of the day, as long as someone somewhere enjoys or appreciates a piece, that is all that matters.
Tantacrul, as of this message, MuseScore is the only composition software that has revolutionary single note dynamics. To my knowledge, if it exists elsewhere then it is probably a paid extension of a paid app. *cough cough* Sibelius. This is something 90% of composition applications can't do, excluding DAWs. I've seen programs have a separate dynamic editing mode, but now it's all in one! Great video, just wanted to point it out.
When you showed the logo, I was like, okay, it's an amateur logo, and it's not that bad. Then you showed the leaning thing. It looked weird, but okay. Then you showed the improved version. I looked back, and EWWWWW, what the hell is that?
There are definitely areas that could be improved, but it's still a great program. I find it overall more functional than something like finale, and the midi preview sounds fantastic.
3:19 and I'm already dyin'... :) To say I'm an amateur and hobbyist at writing music would be to malign amateurs and hobbyists of all types, everywhere, but I _have_ been a graphics and design professional for about 30 years, and I gotta tell ya, I _love_ these videos. We don't agree on everything - no two people do - but I do appreciate not only that your design skills and aesthetics are rock solid (like, how rare is it that someone doesn't merely jump on the 'OMG Comic Sans and Papyrus!' bandwagon, but also notes that they're only "bad" in terms of being used for something other than what they're designed for: For dog's sake, don't put body copy in decorative fonts.) but that you're so very good at presenting these subjects and discussing them in an accessible, humorous, and educational way. Thank you. :)
10:32 O_O But... You're a Brit, man! Navy Blue got it's name from... Well... Royal Navy blue uniforms. Crayola be damned, it's a dark, dark blue. In hex, it's #000080 The highlight color for the notes is #2e86ab - kind of... a pale azure? ;)
So, having played around with the MuseScore 4 beta that just came out, it's crazy to see how much things have improved, and how quickly as well! Amazing job you all
@@deprecatedchannel3877 okay. do you want some sort of trophy or prize for your incredible observation? i could probably whip up a cake in a few hours so we can celebrate you growing a pair or fucking eyes because, clearly, if you're just now pointing this out, you must've just grown them. do you want chocolate, or vanilla? and how do you spell your name? I was thinking of writing "_______ likes to leave stupid fucking comments for no good reason only to say things that people have said hundreds of times before because coming up with a unique thought is such a challenge". on second thought, i don't think that'd fit on a cake. maybe I could shorten it to "______ is a dumbfuck", but that'd be hypocritical of me, since I just insulted YOU for saying things people have said countless times before, and I'm sure you've been told you're a dumbfuck just about as much. oh well. hope you like your cake.
The concept with the double view is actually pretty intuitive, at least when you come from the realm of text editors. There is the concept of windows and buffers. When you open a file, it is in a buffer. This buffer can be displayed in any window that is open. So also in two windows at the same time. It's the same buffer. Opening the same file twice doesn't come in handy constantly but every so often it is nice when editing two seperate parts of one big file at the same time
I like the eye UI feature, would love to see it in art applications to see audience reactions to the piece in real time. The ability to pry the eye open when it's had enough Clockwork Orange style would be appreciated too. I'll be expecting this in the next version of Photoshop, thank you Adobe.
I think that muse score has so many young users cause it’s used for school purposes. we had to compose a variation to one of mozart’s pieces and our whole class had to download it. for someone who’s only interested in music but not composing themselves, i found it really easy to use and everything “mainstream” that you’d like to use is found in some seconds :) i really liked this and the sibelius video, they were really funny but still contained good criticism
Coming here after MuseScore 3.6 was released to say that it looks AMAZING! I'm specially in love with the blue background, it was so hard to distinguish the pages from the background sometimes that it makes a HUGE difference. Can barely wait for what else Tantacrul has in store as head designer
The all-seeing eye getting glaucoma, shrivelling and never opening up again after you enter the name Einaudi is the funniest, most brilliant comment in this video! I could not agree more!! Thank you for such a healthy dose of laughter!
You Sir, rock! UI/X was an interest of mine during my career and it’s a pleasure to watch/listen to someone who truly understands why it’s important. All the best and take care!!
Hey guys, if you'd like to see more of this kind of thing, please consider contributing towards my Patreon. If I could take it up professionally I'd be able to release better content more regularly. www.patreon.com/Tantacrul
This is just pure gold. You're giving me such a good laugh!! Even though I only ever worked with finale (for a very short amount of time, also looking forward to the video on that.. :D) and never with MuseScore I found it so freaking funny! Love your sense of humor!!
I sure hope you will help them on the design department. Given they worked hard to offer you and us all a good free software, the least you can do is actively help to make it better for you and us all.
Having seen his Sibelius video and knowing what he's referring to here, you definitely got wooshed. Either that or he's making fun of all the mobile/website ads that overlay the 'x' or put a false one in the ad so you accidentally click the ad. Knowing the context of the video, of course the second one is _definitely_ the one he was going for
As a long time Finale user (and so far it's still my favorite of the ones I've used because it makes sense to me after using it so much, and I love the control it gives you over layout - it may be convoluted for some, but now that I know how to accomplish something it barely takes me any time to do), I will always defend Finale against the Sibelius/Dorico/Musescore/Noteflight empire (even though I do own a copy of Sibelius and will be getting a copy of Dorico soon to have that flexability to work in whatever program the project requires). That being said, Tantacrul, WE! WANT! FINALE!
Yeah. Finale fits that "hard to learn but you can do nearly anything in it" quality but to the extreme. I'd never recommend it for composing or educational stuff but I've gotten a lot of (sometimes frustrating) engraving miles out of it. ....I do miss Sibelius 6 though. I'll grab Dorico whenever it goes to v. 3.
Dear Tantacrul! For the first time in my life i feel completely understood and at home - from the moment of showing the world of font and icon design to all those important UI details (of an otherwise extraordinarily well thought-of notation prog.). but my absolutely favourite moment was the streamlining of musescore's logo. btw. thank you for your content! highly appreciated!
This video is absolutely amazing! I warned Steinberg, PreSonus, Spitfire, VSL and other devs for years that Exp. Maps (and other XML alts) were UX nightmares. We want to compose, not configure to make things work that should have already worked. You beg people to go vst3 and support auto-mapping. But no. So I suggested in-app stores w/ pre-mapped libraries and was told it was "lightyears away" from anything in the industry. StaffPad then did the exact suggestion... cause it's OBVIOUS to anyone who actually thinks about good workflow. That's just one pain point of music software. This entire video is basically what goes through my head in the first 5 minutes of using everything in the music industry. Don't get me wrong, there's great ideas out there. There's just SO MUCH out dated garbage concepts in the music industry that I... brain... can't... compute. I'm not saying StaffPad is perfect. It's remarkable, and I write faster in SP than any other program, even w/ the handwriting learning curve. The new direction with MuseScore is exciting. I'll definitely keep an eye on it. But this video. Geez. It's like... he understands us. Plus the humor style. Wonderful. A joy to keep watching. Well done!
I didn't know you could have auto-mapping with VST3s. There are still tons of plugins which didn't migrate to VST3. I remember buying a Surface Pro specifically for StaffPad but I hated it (that was 2016). Way too slow compared even to Musescore (which was my main notation software at the time), and my handwriting isn't bad. Would be nice to hear more people talking about StaffPad as it isn't really well covered.
@@LuiDeca Some thoughts on StaffPad... 1. I'll never go back to a DAW or desktop because of it. It's a joy and a lifesaver. 2. The value is the UX more than handwriting. Pre-mapped instruments, a sample store, and a single tap to swap Spitfire/Berlin on a staff. This is now the bare minimum in my mind that any app should be to open and start writing. No setup or config. Just write. 3. Mobile. I have legit written on the train, at the park, in a grocery store parking lot, while waiting for an appointment, etc. I now see most desktop apps as 80's tools that will eventually die out unless they go mobile and cut the fat. Dorico is like a tank and SP is like a Ferrari. Less power and abilities doesn't win when one gets you to the final bar faster and is far more enjoyable. 4. The handwriting improved in late 2020, but months before, I wrestled for a week on the Surface Book. If you finish a piece, you'll fly through the second. Intuitive? No. Hard? No. Not anymore, anyway. I sold stuff to get a Surface Book and SP, but then switched to an iPad. I hate saying I rebought libraries... but the pencil was that dramatic a difference. It's far less latency and even feels 100x more natural. Just try it once. 5. SP recently added audio tracks that look brilliant feature-wise, but I haven't used them. 6. I had my first app crash this last week. It auto saves, so I was fine enough (it actually helped me ironically), but I haven't had problems for 2 years of straight use, so I'm perfectly fine with this. 7. The big limit: it needs more sounds, ethnic instruments, recorders, synths, etc. If I really want a recorder, I can always record one with the audio tracks. It's not detrimental in my mind, but for some it would be. I really think it could use a minimal tutorial feature to help young composers learn form, orchestration, etc. That's me. But those 7 points sum up my thoughts about using it as a daily driver for a while now.
This is a great video! I hope MuseScore implements/considers a lot if not all of the changes you suggest, because it's great when the team behind a product actively listens to suggestions, because then they're able to constantly improve it.
"Might seem trivial" should be the title of this entire review. There's an obvious reason why the note button doesn't do anything unless note input is turned on; it changes the length of the selected rest. It makes editing timing in a measure very easy. You can just press N on the keyboard to immediately enter note input mode. So you can go back in forth between editing notes and editing rests with a keystroke and the same set of buttons. Once you understand this, it's very intuitive. The only thing I would say on this is the note input should default on rather than default off and it should change the icon between a note and a rest to show which mode you're in.
this video ended up being the world's ballsiest job application lmao
It's actually strikingly similar to how John Krasinski became Jim in the Office.
Couldn't be more accurate. Hats off to you, Tantacrul
He talked the talk AND walked the walk
Idk I think me tattooing my resume on my ass is more ballsy.
I mean I didn't get the job but it was pretty ballsy
Post ass to prove @@scoutdy6547
Just noticed - Why doesn't MuseScore have a “Quit Sibelius” button if they seem to be everywhere?
Sibelius would crash --- oh, wait
I came here after recently rewatching the Sibelius video, and your comment had me laughing so hard I got into a coughing fit and it freaked out the cat.
"New All"
Installing musescore *is* the quit sibelius button.
You install MuseScore by clicking the Quit Sibelius button.
Tantacrul: I think musescore could now do with some dedicated full-time designers to fix these problems
Also Tantacrul: *gets hired to be said designer*
They listened 😀
I mean it's technically what he suggested.. just not in the way anyone thought
Hey, if the shoe fits...
Stonks
I just checked the logo on Musescore 3.6 and it does seem to have been changed... but it feels weird to change the logo without incrementing the major version number. Also, it reminds me of the Unison logo that Tantacrul said looks like a toilet trap (which is fine with me)...
Open musescore... sibelius crashed!
I legitimately laughed out loud.
Close Sebelius
qUiT SiBeLiUs
Delete Sybelius-
SyBeLiUs cRaShEd
Are you sure you want to permanently delete Sibelius?
[X] Yes [ ] No
Sibelius crashed.
After this video, Musescore hired Tantacrul as Head Designer
No joke.
oh my god, just a quick google search confirms it, that's actually really cool
Now when I get fustruated I have someone to blame.
I am surprised he didn't get hired by Sibelius, but maybe Sib is beyond rescue.
so wheres the updates? lol
@@Lkease the update to the video, he means, where he explains why musescore is now the best piece of software, ever 😁
I'm really enjoying the "it's okay to be wrong" recurring gag.
I'm gonna say some mean things >:(
*proceeds to give really constructive criticism which will probably help an open source project more than the professional software*
Yeah, that was nice. Other open source software doesn't get that luxury. People will say things like "GIMP sucks" and when you ask them why, they give answers so lacking in detail (even if they are valid criticism) that no one can really fix anything.
Having his picture vomit blood on the program was pretty vulgar though.
He has now done more than just helped it. He is now designing it!
Calpsotoma Poor Shostakovich...
I definitely didn't expect to see you here XD
Revisiting this after MuseScore 4 has been released is fascinating.
@MoolsDogTwo Don't worry, as this is a major overhaul we left in more than enough jank things to warrant more updates in the future ;-)
yeah ngl musescore 4 is very different than 3, sure a lot of the basics like pop up side windows are there but pop up screens are much more intuitive and it looks amazing too
also the logo is fire now tbh, the colors really helped it a lot
But in so many ways, still a pain. Specialy the playBack part. It evolve sooooooooooooo slooooooooooly.
@@atomas59 What do you mean?
@@macguenther4938 ngl, every drop of 4 I immediately look to see if @17:45 has been fixed
The knowledge eye is just clippy and you know it.
clippy has ascended to the all seing, all knowing eye. All praise the ceaseless watcher!
Yeah the eye came across as a horrible idea to me, to be honest. I'd never click on it, eventually I'd forget it was there, and I'd wind up Googling everything it should be telling me. Actually that's a lot like Clippy isn't it? Maybe if the eye button was also turned into a cartoon character, like Mr. Jank! I still wouldn't use it but that would be kind of fun.
@@thecianinator it was a joke...
@@thecianinator you must be fun at parties
My g insulted Ludovico Einaudi so I hate it
Of the notation programs you plan on reviewing, you need to review Finale last, so that you can call it the season finale.
...
I'll show myself out.
You've written the first line of that review.
@@Tantacrul Glad to be of use.
@@QuotePilgrim Somebody sure 180'd on that "I'll see myself out"
@@lrgogo1517 You're aware that "I'll show myself out" is almost always intended as a joke, right?
More specifically, it's usually intended as acknowledgement that one has made a terrible pun/joke. I still think I have made a bad pun, so no, I haven't 180'd on that.
Of course, it is very much possible your own comment may have been intended as a joke. In that case, don't mind me, disregard this comment.
And since the Finale users want to laugh at him making fun of Finale, I guess this means he has to do Dorico (and potentially Noteflight) quickly
I've never heard of MuseScore. I don't compose music. I can't even _read_ sheet music. Yet I just watched a half hour video on composing software. And I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I just like uis and I like how this feller talks about ui
Same, and I have little interest in graphic design either. I just watched this guy’s Sibelius video... so yeah I had to see more
The Eye watches contentedly
Saaaaame. I really like graphic design and UI/UX design I guess lol
To be perfectly fair, I can't read sheet music either, and I manage okay. I do most of it by ear.
So, this video came out in 2019, by which point I can remember being frustrated with a lot of this stuff.
Now that Tantacrul's part of Musescore's design process, it's fascinating seeing how many of these problems have been fixed in the last year. Especially the little things talked about in Part 3.
Now, as of May 2020:
Whenever I delete an element spanning multiple notes, it automatically highlights the starting note so I can start there again.
I no longer need to double-click on stuff to edit it.
Copying and pasting now replaces old phrasing and dynamics with the copied/pasted dynamics and phrasing, which has sped up the score creation process considerably.
I can change the spacing of staves and measures just by clicking and dragging. (I do still enter values into the sidebar often, since it helps with exact measurements, but clicking and dragging gets me in the ballpark a lot faster.)
I can change the duration of multiple notes or rests at once.
That ugly, clinical gray background is now a more soothing dark blue.
I do mostly piano covers of songs I like, and one of those, which used to take me between five and seven hours, now takes an average of three. Two or less if I'm covering a song I really, really like.
Even something as long as musescore.com/user/32136986/scores/6140950, which likely would have taken me more than 16 hours in 2018, only took me about six in 2020.
Hats off to you, Tantacrul, and the rest of the MuseScore team. Thank you.
Your cover sounds amazing!!
@@jessicar3291
Thanks! There's plenty more where that came from.
This is a really good comment. Thank you!
@tropes
Yep, it's me! Still at it.
Feels weird that the UI is the first thing that he complained about and they are exactly the same. Even the awful looking Mixer
New All certainly is the Quit Sibelius of MuseScore.
And when the community decides on a replacement string ("All Parts New"?), it will be the All New New All.
Just *Quit Sibalius*
@@riaanvn 'New Part for Each Instrument' could work
@@flirora Or just 'make parts'
@@KingJellyfishII SIBELIUS CRASHED.
I've just checked my musescore logo and it has your updated logo from the right...
You Win
i would never have noticed that, good eyes
Willow Sparks
and... he's now the head of design
ua-cam.com/video/oLDNQUiHI5k/v-deo.html
Keep in mind that this video is now slightly outdated.
After Tantacrul made this video, the MuseScore community went out of its way to fix these issues with Tantacrul's advice, and now he's the lead designer for MuseScore.
But! As someone who uses MuseScore (and just downloaded the latest update before stumbling upon this video) several of his issues with the program have yet to be solved. It does seem like they're really taking his advice seriously, though. It's always nice to see a company really listen to their userbase.
Did they include the All Seeing Eye button? 👁️
😛
Still gray
@@animeartist888 How about now?
it's gone from slightly to wildly outdated now :D
Going from the logo, I think it's supposed to be pronounced "MuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuseScore".
This made me a aloud
@@Ruiluth This made me a *alouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud*
or mᵤsescore if your conductor is an asshole
muwuscore
Am I the only one who pronounces it Muse-ay-score?
I love your sarcastic camera zooms and pans! Another epic video, congrats!
I grant you he's clever but he's very smug.
Tantacrul: look at this
Me, a backend developer: this looks pretty good
Tantacrul: makes a 30 minute video about why it's ugly
I had the same feeling. However, the more I watch his videos on good design, the more I learn, and the better my own software looks/feels because of it (I hope anyway).
and then he becomes the lead designer
@@WarrenGarabrandt Yeah. I've got an interest in videogames, (weirdly enough, more on the creation, design side than on the playing side) and I've come to understand that User interface massively influences gameplay. And also, all the game's visuals and game world and sound are part of the user interface as well.
*all video* - trashing musescore for its design
*ending* - "I really liked musescore"
Well.. okay
I see where you're coming from, but if you go watch the slow descent into the mind's abyss that is the Sibelius video, you will see that Tantacrul merely trashing an app is high praise.
Martin Krauser I hear you.. however impo it’s still mean to rant about sth. you actually think is good.. that’s how you get people drawn away from it cuz the think it’s sh#t.. and that’s especially important for openSource projects with communities like these.. without the community and contributors they are basically dead.....
@@thisisthefoxe I'm pretty sure anyone watching this video will see the other as well. Notation software review videos are a lot like heroin, or potato chips.
I can guarantee you that this video brought a lot of people's attention to Musescore.
Are you people bulletproof to context? He made this video to criticize the app so the developers knew what they should fix, he's not gonna spend 20 minutes talking about all the great features, you could just ask a musescore user for that. & you must have difficulty paying attention too, praising of the app was sprinkled in amidst the criticism & he didn't spend the whole time thrashing it, a lot of the criticisms were minor improvements & things to work on.
It's like that report card comment "Shows promise. Not working up to ability."
This is so relatable. At school in music class while we didn’t use muse score, we had to use Sibelius and it was hilarious. Not only did it take ages to do the most basic things because we didn’t know our way around the bloody thing and had to learn to use it within an unrealistic timeframe, but we got to witness the pure anger and wrath of our music teacher towards the software as she wrestled it into working properly... when it wasn’t crashing.
This video literally landed this man a job as head of design for the company the video is about.
Bruh
And he mentioned on his Twitter that one of the first bits of feedback he got from the core development team was they thought he was pulling his punches a bit!
Muh
How can you be so sarcastic and so respectful at the same time?
It's always good to see someone giving constructive criticism on the internet instead of just trolling around.
I use MuseScore for years.
When I was learning how to write I used Guitar Pro. Then I move up to Finale, but it was a pain in the a** to learn and write. I think I gave up from Finale back in 2008~10 and started to use MuseScore. In was so good I'm still using it.
If someday I can buy another app I'll probably donate the money to MuseScore and continue to use it. It is helping me for so many years, it would be fair to repay the kindness.
I watched this man talk about the logos for 6 minutes
I just opened MuseScore 4 after watching this, and OH BOY, has it improved! Thank you for all your hard work, Tantacrul and the rest of the MuseScore team!
This is …just fantastic. Pure generosity posing as snark, and the MuseScore team is taking notes … So. Much. Win. Faith in humanity restored (for today at least).
Thanks Tantacrul, and thanks MuseScore team!
Exactly my thoughts. The critiques are spot-on, but I also really appreciate the fact that you point out the future security inherent in of open source software, the vibrant community involved in MuseScore, and the responsiveness of developers to questions and suggestions. As a long-time Sibelius user who is trying to switch to an open-source workflow (and who is sick of Avid), I'm really rooting for this piece of software!
Generosity posing as snark? Now that is something I can get behind!
I've been using musescore for 7ish years. Thanks to the free program, I my interest in music was sparked. Thank you musescore team
This whole application seems like a real Muh Moment.
DPadGamer Muh
Muh broment
-Mug- Muh Moment
Didn't expect to see you here
muh MOMENT!!1
I've used Finale since 2004 and Sibelius and I can say confidently that MuseScore is seriously the easiest and most powerful to use out of any I've used. It should be seriously considered for all universities and schools.
I found transitioning from Sibelius to Musecore a bit tricky. But I prefer it now
My school actually uses musescore
Unfortunately the corporate world is very good at selling to institutions like schools, so they will continue to use bad software because a manager in a nice suit convinced them to
My school does use musescore
@@kolo5086lucky mine uses dorico (better than sibelius or finale)
So to summarise: At first glance MuseScore looks shit.
At second glance MuseScore actually looks decent.
Upon a thorough third glance MuseScore is shiiiiiiit, though ironically still better than competitors.
Yep, can confirm as a casual user.
@Nathaniel Walker see, I've tried both and I'd have to thoroughly disagree. For context, I use Dorico, and although I have found many, many holes in its functionality (oh my god trying to box stemless notes throughout a score is a disaster), I do prefer it to both MuseScore and Sibelius. However, there are many considerations to be taken in with this debate, especially as it pertains to the context of the application
MuseScore is free. Sibelius is... not. In fact, for my personal needs, Sibelius is $599.99 plus tax away from free (and I only would have to pay the extra for PhotoScore anyways).
MuseScore lacks in its efficiency of fundamental music engraving. It takes ages to engrave music using MuseScore, especially in large scores. (I tried writing both a field band concept and an orchestral symphony, and gave up due to the lack of workflow efficiency in engraving the score). In fact, I always joke that if I started publishing works I wrote on MuseScore, I'd not have free software because "that software is bundled with an expensive copyist to do the work for me." The lack of efficiency causes me to lose time, patience, and the desire to keep working.
While this is a large shortcoming, the difference is that the un-intuitive feel is in the details for me. I can find everything perfectly fine, it's just a matter of how it works once I find it. Sibelius is irritating in that it takes forever to find what one may be looking for. I ended up writing down on scrap paper where each engraving option is that I use, just in case I can't find it. Of course, as I moved from housing to housing in college, I lost that sheet. That's when I decided to buy my own software, as I simply lost all hope in trying to ever use Sibelius again. I went in to continue working, and found that it took me ages to find the options I wanted.
While both inhibit the efficiency of workflow, I FEEL like I'm making more progress in working with Musescore. At least, as I copy over each separate unit of engraving from one voice to the next, I can tell myself, "That's one more down." With Sibelius, I feel like the act of finding any option is halting any work I do. It doesn't matter that everything can be copied at once if I can't find those elements to begin with.
tl;dr: MuseScore can be inefficient, Sibelius can feel suffocating. Dorico isn't perfect but it's far superior to anything. Except maybe Noteflight ;)
@@ThePeaterBeater Exactly. For all the things that Sibelius does better than Musescore... is it really worth 600 - six hundred - bucks? If it were, like, 20 bucks, or even 60, I'd consider it. But the exorbitant price - and that's most music notation programs, not just Sibelius - is simply not justified.
@@ThePeaterBeater Personally my starting point is Dorico 3 (after not feeling very comfortable using MuseScore and discouraged from trying to get Sibelius or Finale), and after using Dorico for a while, I'd say that what really makes Dorico shine is that when writing the score, it takes considerably less mouse clicks, for I can do many stuffs on keyboard (rather than finding and clicking the button) comparing to having to click a lot in MuseScore.
Just bringing this up because it kinda felt like it hasn't been discussed that much, while being the actual game changer for me.
It's kinda a niche market for most. And like, when it takes years to develop a piece of software that it's gonna sell much, of course there got to be some high price. I don't know if Sibelius justifies the price but Dorico kinda does, since it has a lot of things fine tuned that really improves the workflow. If people can justify spending $1000 on getting a Push2, then $600 for a good notation software is like, expensive but reasonable.
@@Gilmaris It's not only the cost of the program: I'm guessing that Sibelius makes files which only Sibelius can open and edit, while anyone can freely/legally write software which opens & edits MuseScore files. This is the beauty of true F/LOSS.
I have no idea why I have CC turned on, but that moment at 1:47 represents actual real effort and I'm both humored and grateful.
I just watch these for the production value and writing. I have never composed anything yet am compelled to listen to this overly intense Irish man giving free consultations for programmes I will never use.
You could probably talk about tortoise surgery with me reaching for my beer.
Bravo, I guess.
I will join you for that beer when he comes out with a tortoise surgery video in a year.
I’d like to thank MuseScore for helping me survive my undergrad. I wasn’t a music major. I just liked to compose to unwind.
Coming here after MS4 announcement videos is quite the *hindsight 2020* moment ever
MuseScore's biggest plus imo is its community. The quickest way to get helped for a new user is often to ask a question on the forum. I have seën numerous cases where three answers were posted within a minute of the original post.
More experienced users will gladly help newbies to get up to speed. If you know your way around, there are often shortcuts which make doing certain things much faster. Experienced users are very willing to share their wisdom on the forum.
The community is also one of the very few online communities I know where people generally respect each other.
(I am 20 years old and I use MuseScore because you can pay two months' rent for an apartment for the price of Sibelius et al.)
Louis Cloete I like the software and the community, but they are always royally screwing the web page (playback breaks every time I use it) and the mobile apps are just plain bad.
I used to grab random trialware programs off the web to convert between media types, pretty sure nearly all of them left pieces of themselves behind to phone home--pretty nasty. Now I just pipeline shit into ffmpeg or use handbrake if the command flags I need are too flaky. SO much better.
Open source media software may be lagging a bit behind it's commercial competition, but it's so nice to see how far it's come.
Also, most of the scores on Musescore are utter garbage, but for transcriptions of less popular music, (video game music especially, doesn't get the attention it deserves) Musescore is the first place to go.
@@RTouch10 the website for score sharing is kind of a different thing, though. It is even developed/maintained by different people.
I feel like you put more effort into animating Shosty than some developers put into UI
_Hahahahahahahahahaha_ okay
Seriously.
Seriously this has ableton graphics
@@ourladypeace3 ableton has great graphics wdym
@@ourladypeace3 it's super clear and smooth
"the icons look depressed"
...well, that's because they are, since you pressed them =D mission accomplished =D
I am depressed, but there's no way to reverse this one 😅👌🏻
@@kerserzthescientist8899 some one could try to press you from below?
Omg I've been waiting for this one for so long
Edit: I'm glad you recognise it's still developing state - it's a good program and for free software it does a fantastic job
Same.
As a dyslexic I find symmetrical fonts a nightmare. Papyrus is much easier to read for me.
That so unexpected comment raising something I never thought of.
But of course, now I see it: if dyslexia is a trouble in ordering glyph sequences, it stands to reason that too similar waypoints cause spurious matches.
Yeah, let's not forget that we are not all identical, and don't quite live in the same world, we just mostly share the illusion we do.
There is a reason those wacky fonts and giant wriggling emotes exist, they correspond to people valuing things differently. Thus I suppose design is skewed to the taste of the kind of people that take on design work : orderly, idealized.
@@musaran2 You're correct. Webdings was only created to predict 9/11 😉
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia#Management < Second paragraph will lead to two fonts aimed at people with Dyslexia.
Honestly I thought it was a joke to begin with, but maybe Papyrus is easier for some; however I highly doubt they, the early/earlier fonts, were made with this in mind ;)
Case and point:
"Costello created the font in 1982, when he was 23 years old and just out of college. He had been studying the Bible and came onto the idea of what a written font would have looked like in biblical times in the Middle East.[1] He hand-drew the font over a period of six months by means of calligraphy pen and textured paper. Costello described his goal as a font that would represent what English language texts would have looked like if written on papyrus 2,000 years ago.[2] Costello released the font the following year alongside Letraset. Papyrus has a number of distinctive characteristics, including rough edges, irregular curves, and high horizontal strokes in the capitals. ITC, the current owner of the typeface, describes it as an "unusual roman typeface [that] effectively merges the elegance of a traditional roman letterform with the hand-crafted look of highly skilled calligraphy".[3] Costello sold the rights for the font for $750, and as of 2017, states he still receives "very low" royalty payments despite its inclusion since 2000 on all personal computers using a Mac or Microsoft operating system.[1] In October 2017, Costello agreed that Papyrus had become overused.[4]"
From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_(typeface)
750$ for a typeface.. I feel for the guy :)
@@MrMiss-cp9bw I was thinking that there could be a font better for dyslexic people than papyrus. I can see that one font has made the bottom of the letters bolder. A very clever fix that might work for some people.
Our brains like repetetive (= predictable) patterns, having a font that is "predictable" makes our brains go in low gear and a lot of what is read gets lost.
Having cryptic signs in barely readable colors, the brain is in high performance mode anyway, so it goes the extra mile to memorize what is going on.
Look no further than "Open Dyslexic", that should be your go-to
I've just watched this for the second time (first time was a few months ago) and honestly this is such a great video. Your criticism is in-depth, constructive and valid. You give pertinent and clear examples that are easy to follow and understand, even to people like me who have very limited experience with composition programs (I really only know a bit of Sibelius). And while a video like this could be very dry, your sense of humour makes it just a joy to watch and listen to. I feel bad for poor Shosty though - hasn't he been through enough in his life that you have to subject him to this? :D
Well, I’ve one that’s about twice this length coming out in a few weeks. 😊
@@Tantacrul very much looking forward to it!
I just realised that the reason for the video taking so long is that you are actually trying to use the program for your own projects and that makes your points more relateable. Thank you for making these videos.
I don't even write music... I just like listening to some guy ranting about UI.
that's my favourite bit too :)
There's nothing more cathartic than being brutally critical of an icon set.
… and nothing more exhausting than _designing_ a satisfactory icon set!
@@yuyiya I have begun working on one. I stopped at the first icon that would be the standard "Home" house icon. Maybe I'll be back at it someday :p
I was just watching in disbelief as this guy spent a solid 5 minutes critiquing THE ALIGNMENT OF THE ICONS
The video that started it all. He joined the team and now we have Musescore 4 and I love it. Awesomeness.
It looks like an insurance actuary's app. It looks like it's designed to be used by hundreds of gray-cubicle-bound 9-5 composers
Lol
Are they the ones in the "corporate music" video?
It looks like someone needs to install a better Qt5 theme.
One thing I love about musescore is that in the top bar there's a little button that says concert pitch which makes composing for Bb trumpet and Eb sax a dream
Good I can make stuff for sax
@@grandpanoogie2665 Who would ever want to compose for sax though...
Haha just kidding
@@ecstrema nah i get it. We saxes are a dying race only used in public schools and modern jazz. I appreciate the honesty tho
@@grandpanoogie2665 saxes are eternally beloved by the general populace (bill Clinton!) And are one of the only horns that manage to find themselves crossed over into many other genres
@@jakeziccardi5317 many people do like the sound, myself included, but its past its prime in terms of use. Thankfully, there are some people still writing jazz out there. Not to say I hate any other genre of music, I just like jazz the mosy
Today, for the first time ever, I wanted to actually write down a clean version of some sheet music I had made lots of changes in. I remembered that I had seen MuseScore in this video a few years ago, downloaded the installer, opened it up and... it just worked. The only time I was confused was when I wanted to add text and it didn't work just by clicking it on the left... so I dragged it onto the sheet and voilà! Took me about an hour start to finish, simply excelent.
Thanks to you and the entire team at MuseScore! ♥
I use MuseScore regularly… and I "like" it, mainly because it's free - I can't justify the expense of Sibelius - and because it gets the job done. But it's buggy and yes, kind of hideous to look at. I appreciate your sense of humor and the amount of work you've put into this video. Have you considered joining the MuseScore dev team? (Half joking.)
I've found that changing the background and page color go a long way towards helping that. Cream on wood grain is much better on the eyes
Considering the competition, it suddenly becomes a lot more appealing.
He actually did!
This aged like milk.
@@bomberfish77 a fine wine
A little fact to know: The colours will be much better once you dig through the settings and activate the "Dark design", also there are quite some options to make it graphically more appealing
Where is that?
Edit --> Preferences --> General --> Theme, Select "Dark" where it says "Light"
Also, in the Preferences under "Canvas" you can Change the colour of the paper (i don't think that changes the colour When printed though) and the background (I use the colour #4c3535 in the HTML field for the background).
@@sebastianzaczek OMG thank you for this!!!!!
@@sebastianzaczek I got so excited I fired up Musescore before I even finished reading your comment. This is a game changer! Thanks!
No problem
Splitting an editor side by side is something very useful in programming. Like you edit one part of the code and have another part open on the side to refer to it. Perhaps the developers of Muse Score thought maybe that would also be useful for a music software? But in any case closing that tab should **NOT** close the project, but only the side view. In any code editor I know it only closes the side view.
Graphic designer here, love your breakdown of the icons & overall UI. I've been using the Segoe icon set in some recent UI concepts so I had a similar feeling about the icons in MuseScore.
Btw, chords playback has already been implemented indeed and available in MuseScore 3.0.5 😂
The associated issue page mentions the request coming from "the author of the famous video about Sibelius UI".
musescore.org/en/node/283946
@@JorWat25 ＵＩ ｄｅｓｉｇｎｅｒｓ， ｙｅ ｍｏｒｔａｌｓ！
ｄｏ ｎｏｔ ｄｒａｗ ｈｉｓ ｉｒｅ ｕｐｏｎ ｙｅ！
(By which I mean, do, then listen, then improve it
What I find amusing is the fact that chords-based playback was the only option in older versions
@@MrDrumStikz Huh. I guess having options is good - as long as the default is good. :D
@@JorWat25 that is a coincidence ;)
Everyone else's job application: "I"m an professional Software UI/UX designer with 10 years of experience"
Tantacrul's job application: 5:51
The MuseScore logo looks like an elephant that's spraying water on its back
Elephant _pause_?
Why did you have to make me see that? Why?
@@yuyiya 12tone
It would be a total shift from the current logo's minimalism but I think it'd be really cool to see that in a logo design
@@yuyiya It's a heavy pause.
The voice of Terpsichore is perfect.
Just an update: MS team has implemented a LOT of suggestions from the video. It is really impressive, thanks guys! @J T, @Marc Sabatella and many other developers, testers, supporters...
Tantacrul was also hired as head of design at MuseScore.
Calling it MS can be confused with Microsoft. Maybe why they went with MU̇̑ instead.
I don't comment often unless I am blown away. Today, I have a different reason. First of all, I'd like to thank MuseScore for being an approachable and usable software. Secondly, and most importantly, I love your videos and I literally cannot wait for your Finale video!
When reading the logo, the fermata over the "U" means that it's pronounced muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
6 months later:
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
@@djazz0 Looks like they came back for more
Depends on you fermata settings. I believe default value is +15%
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu(bruh where's the conductor I want to stop)uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...
Young people: "MuseScore is really good and functional and easy to use."
Tent: "Yes but the typefaces"
>Unity
>Industry Standard
My dear Tantacrul please do not curse us so.
It is an industry standard. It's just not *the* industry standard.
How many others are there? Source, Frostbite, Unreal?
Gamebryo, CryEngine...
I'm still using an Id variant, for what it's worth.
@@s6th795 IdTech?
There is nothing worse than meeting a 10 second+ video for a single function.
Where 17 seconds is the intro, with the title of the video in both text and spoken form. Then the whole scenario has to be explained, which I guess could be useful to make sure you're on the right track, but still waste of time.
He should’ve watched the video on the Google search page, which would have let him skip to the helpful portion.
if i'd known getting Shostakovich to puke blood everywhere was a legitimate way to get a job, i'd have tried it years ago
"and the unique function where if you enter the name einaudi into the composer field, it gets glaucoma, shrivells up and never opens again"
As somebody who likes that guy, it was at that moment i realized
My family’s taste is very basic
I did not recognize the name Einaudi. I checked a UA-cam video. Thanks. I now have diabetes. I also feel quite disstressed, and slightly angry. Sitting still for ten minutes longing for one single slightly blue note, and never getting it. It's horrible.
@@Flowtail It's not "basic". Music is music. People can enjoy whatever they want. All music has value. None of it is "basic" or "tasteless" or any of that crap people like to say. People hate on music and musicians way too much. At the end of the day, as long as someone somewhere enjoys or appreciates a piece, that is all that matters.
Ludovico "I just found out about arpeggios" Einaudi
@@scusachannel1682 is he in Coldplay
Tantacrul, as of this message, MuseScore is the only composition software that has revolutionary single note dynamics. To my knowledge, if it exists elsewhere then it is probably a paid extension of a paid app. *cough cough* Sibelius. This is something 90% of composition applications can't do, excluding DAWs. I've seen programs have a separate dynamic editing mode, but now it's all in one! Great video, just wanted to point it out.
To my knowledge, Finale has had that for a long time.
I love how all the points of criticism were addressed with the release of MuseScore 4
That's cause the guy who did the criticism simply got hired to design MuseScore 4.
I’d never thought I’d needed to see Shostakovich vomiting blood.
You managed to describe what I couldnt put into words about what annoys me on Musescore! Bravo!
I watched this after his recent video on MuseScore 4.0, man it is amazing
When you showed the logo, I was like, okay, it's an amateur logo, and it's not that bad.
Then you showed the leaning thing. It looked weird, but okay.
Then you showed the improved version. I looked back, and EWWWWW, what the hell is that?
i cant unsee it and i've never before been so irritated by an icon to the point of physical distress..
There are definitely areas that could be improved, but it's still a great program. I find it overall more functional than something like finale, and the midi preview sounds fantastic.
14:44
when he made a tweaked logo, i thought that the original one is pretty alright.
then, when i saw his 2nd tweak.
It's like that Rick and Morty bit where Morty learns what "true level" is
Great now i'm gonna have Shostakovitch nightmares.
(DSCH motif slowly getting louder in the distance)
3:19 and I'm already dyin'... :)
To say I'm an amateur and hobbyist at writing music would be to malign amateurs and hobbyists of all types, everywhere, but I _have_ been a graphics and design professional for about 30 years, and I gotta tell ya, I _love_ these videos. We don't agree on everything - no two people do - but I do appreciate not only that your design skills and aesthetics are rock solid (like, how rare is it that someone doesn't merely jump on the 'OMG Comic Sans and Papyrus!' bandwagon, but also notes that they're only "bad" in terms of being used for something other than what they're designed for: For dog's sake, don't put body copy in decorative fonts.) but that you're so very good at presenting these subjects and discussing them in an accessible, humorous, and educational way. Thank you. :)
10:32 O_O But... You're a Brit, man! Navy Blue got it's name from... Well... Royal Navy blue uniforms. Crayola be damned, it's a dark, dark blue. In hex, it's #000080 The highlight color for the notes is #2e86ab - kind of... a pale azure? ;)
Even though the furthest I've gotten in music is learning notes, I still enjoy your videos immensely.
I cried a single tear after watching this video... and it hit the like button.
Can’t wait for your take on Dorico!
So, having played around with the MuseScore 4 beta that just came out, it's crazy to see how much things have improved, and how quickly as well! Amazing job you all
"It's ok to be wrong" lmfao!
This is one of the funniest design rants I've ever seen. And actually constructive!
7:48 "Why do people pick on Comic Sans so much, when Papyrus is a thing that exists"
undertale memes irl
They were both well known shitty fonts before undertale existed
@@remy7541 it's a joke.
Jamie r/woooosh
@@nori1123 ut fandom is still -toxic- salty
@@deprecatedchannel3877 okay. do you want some sort of trophy or prize for your incredible observation? i could probably whip up a cake in a few hours so we can celebrate you growing a pair or fucking eyes because, clearly, if you're just now pointing this out, you must've just grown them. do you want chocolate, or vanilla? and how do you spell your name? I was thinking of writing "_______ likes to leave stupid fucking comments for no good reason only to say things that people have said hundreds of times before because coming up with a unique thought is such a challenge". on second thought, i don't think that'd fit on a cake. maybe I could shorten it to "______ is a dumbfuck", but that'd be hypocritical of me, since I just insulted YOU for saying things people have said countless times before, and I'm sure you've been told you're a dumbfuck just about as much. oh well. hope you like your cake.
So crazy that Tantacrul is the head of design at MuseScore now thanks to this video.
This is a really well-made video that helped me with a bunch of design principles I didn't even know existed! Thank you for uploading this!
After moving from 3 to 4, and then rewatching this video it's actually astounding how much the app has grown and changed since this video. Incredible
The concept with the double view is actually pretty intuitive, at least when you come from the realm of text editors. There is the concept of windows and buffers. When you open a file, it is in a buffer. This buffer can be displayed in any window that is open. So also in two windows at the same time. It's the same buffer.
Opening the same file twice doesn't come in handy constantly but every so often it is nice when editing two seperate parts of one big file at the same time
I like the eye UI feature, would love to see it in art applications to see audience reactions to the piece in real time. The ability to pry the eye open when it's had enough Clockwork Orange style would be appreciated too. I'll be expecting this in the next version of Photoshop, thank you Adobe.
I think that muse score has so many young users cause it’s used for school purposes. we had to compose a variation to one of mozart’s pieces and our whole class had to download it. for someone who’s only interested in music but not composing themselves, i found it really easy to use and everything “mainstream” that you’d like to use is found in some seconds :) i really liked this and the sibelius video, they were really funny but still contained good criticism
I about died when I saw "Job Done" written in Papyrus. Great narration on this video, I'm thanking the whims of the youtube algorithm right now!
many people say this, but this time it's real: I've never clicked on a video so fast in my life
Welcome to the notification squad. Enjoy your stay.
what makes you think it wasn't real for the other people lol jk
same here
They fixed the New All, so sorry you can't meme anymore, people who didn't watch this before it was replaced with Generate
Maybe New All should live on as an easter egg.
they also replaced it with HIM ahaha
G E N E R A T E
lol I downloaded musescore 2 just to see it after the fix
I'm pretty sure they've renamed it again to "All Parts".
Coming here after MuseScore 3.6 was released to say that it looks AMAZING! I'm specially in love with the blue background, it was so hard to distinguish the pages from the background sometimes that it makes a HUGE difference. Can barely wait for what else Tantacrul has in store as head designer
The all-seeing eye getting glaucoma, shrivelling and never opening up again after you enter the name Einaudi is the funniest, most brilliant comment in this video! I could not agree more!! Thank you for such a healthy dose of laughter!
I'm not a composer & have no idea what that means. Is that a famously shit composer or is it like an Alan Smithee situation?
@@fish4225 i was wondering the same thing
I did some digging in response to this call out and found a review in The Guardian from a few days ago. Pretty much tore the performance to shreds.
fish he's just super boring and pretentious
@@josephalvarez5315 Aight. Thanks.
Me: *calmly enjoying design video*
Tantacrul and Electronic Music: "let us introduce ourselves"
You Sir, rock! UI/X was an interest of mine during my career and it’s a pleasure to watch/listen to someone who truly understands why it’s important. All the best and take care!!
Hey guys, if you'd like to see more of this kind of thing, please consider contributing towards my Patreon. If I could take it up professionally I'd be able to release better content more regularly. www.patreon.com/Tantacrul
This is just pure gold. You're giving me such a good laugh!! Even though I only ever worked with finale (for a very short amount of time, also looking forward to the video on that.. :D) and never with MuseScore I found it so freaking funny! Love your sense of humor!!
NEW ALL!
Thanks for the help!
I sure hope you will help them on the design department. Given they worked hard to offer you and us all a good free software, the least you can do is actively help to make it better for you and us all.
@@InXLsisDeo This video took 2.5 months to make. I feel that's a somewhat useful contribution.
This channel deserves to be bigger, the sheer amount of detail you go into whilst somehow remaining very entertaining is impressive
Thanks for bringing us musescore 4 and muse sounds
Result: we all need a "New All" - T-Shirt. RIGHT NOW!
But can I get an all new "New All" T-Shirt?
@@yuvalsela4482 yes, but it's missing the checkbox to enable the whole function, and the reset button for said checkbox.
@@yuvalsela4482 When I purchase this shirt, does Sibelius crash?
@@colejohnson66 yes
15:59 wait what? there's a x in the top right corner. is this something i should know or did i just get woooshed?
Joseph Stalin same, dude
Now I’m wondering where he encountered this kind of pop-up XD
Having seen his Sibelius video and knowing what he's referring to here, you definitely got wooshed. Either that or he's making fun of all the mobile/website ads that overlay the 'x' or put a false one in the ad so you accidentally click the ad. Knowing the context of the video, of course the second one is _definitely_ the one he was going for
It was a joke.
I’d say it’s punishment for depriving Shostakovich of his artistic freedom.
"*it needs just a reskin*"
Goes ahead and rewrites the entire UI in QML
Now im hyped for the Finale vid.
Let Feldmans Yeast flow through you!
Gosh Finale has so many interface issues... It's probably going to be a long video...
I'm sure he'll rise to the occasion!
Every time I get frustrated with Finale I check Tantacrul's channel to see if he's uploaded it yet
As a long time Finale user (and so far it's still my favorite of the ones I've used because it makes sense to me after using it so much, and I love the control it gives you over layout - it may be convoluted for some, but now that I know how to accomplish something it barely takes me any time to do), I will always defend Finale against the Sibelius/Dorico/Musescore/Noteflight empire (even though I do own a copy of Sibelius and will be getting a copy of Dorico soon to have that flexability to work in whatever program the project requires). That being said, Tantacrul, WE! WANT! FINALE!
Yeah. Finale fits that "hard to learn but you can do nearly anything in it" quality but to the extreme. I'd never recommend it for composing or educational stuff but I've gotten a lot of (sometimes frustrating) engraving miles out of it. ....I do miss Sibelius 6 though. I'll grab Dorico whenever it goes to v. 3.
Dear Tantacrul! For the first time in my life i feel completely understood and at home - from the moment of showing the world of font and icon design to all those important UI details (of an otherwise extraordinarily well thought-of notation prog.).
but my absolutely favourite moment was the streamlining of musescore's logo.
btw. thank you for your content!
highly appreciated!
This video is absolutely amazing!
I warned Steinberg, PreSonus, Spitfire, VSL and other devs for years that Exp. Maps (and other XML alts) were UX nightmares. We want to compose, not configure to make things work that should have already worked. You beg people to go vst3 and support auto-mapping. But no. So I suggested in-app stores w/ pre-mapped libraries and was told it was "lightyears away" from anything in the industry. StaffPad then did the exact suggestion... cause it's OBVIOUS to anyone who actually thinks about good workflow. That's just one pain point of music software. This entire video is basically what goes through my head in the first 5 minutes of using everything in the music industry.
Don't get me wrong, there's great ideas out there. There's just SO MUCH out dated garbage concepts in the music industry that I... brain... can't... compute. I'm not saying StaffPad is perfect. It's remarkable, and I write faster in SP than any other program, even w/ the handwriting learning curve. The new direction with MuseScore is exciting. I'll definitely keep an eye on it. But this video. Geez. It's like... he understands us.
Plus the humor style. Wonderful. A joy to keep watching. Well done!
I didn't know you could have auto-mapping with VST3s. There are still tons of plugins which didn't migrate to VST3. I remember buying a Surface Pro specifically for StaffPad but I hated it (that was 2016). Way too slow compared even to Musescore (which was my main notation software at the time), and my handwriting isn't bad. Would be nice to hear more people talking about StaffPad as it isn't really well covered.
@@LuiDeca
Some thoughts on StaffPad...
1. I'll never go back to a DAW or desktop because of it. It's a joy and a lifesaver.
2. The value is the UX more than handwriting. Pre-mapped instruments, a sample store, and a single tap to swap Spitfire/Berlin on a staff. This is now the bare minimum in my mind that any app should be to open and start writing. No setup or config. Just write.
3. Mobile. I have legit written on the train, at the park, in a grocery store parking lot, while waiting for an appointment, etc. I now see most desktop apps as 80's tools that will eventually die out unless they go mobile and cut the fat. Dorico is like a tank and SP is like a Ferrari. Less power and abilities doesn't win when one gets you to the final bar faster and is far more enjoyable.
4. The handwriting improved in late 2020, but months before, I wrestled for a week on the Surface Book. If you finish a piece, you'll fly through the second. Intuitive? No. Hard? No. Not anymore, anyway. I sold stuff to get a Surface Book and SP, but then switched to an iPad. I hate saying I rebought libraries... but the pencil was that dramatic a difference. It's far less latency and even feels 100x more natural. Just try it once.
5. SP recently added audio tracks that look brilliant feature-wise, but I haven't used them.
6. I had my first app crash this last week. It auto saves, so I was fine enough (it actually helped me ironically), but I haven't had problems for 2 years of straight use, so I'm perfectly fine with this.
7. The big limit: it needs more sounds, ethnic instruments, recorders, synths, etc. If I really want a recorder, I can always record one with the audio tracks. It's not detrimental in my mind, but for some it would be.
I really think it could use a minimal tutorial feature to help young composers learn form, orchestration, etc. That's me. But those 7 points sum up my thoughts about using it as a daily driver for a while now.
This is a great video! I hope MuseScore implements/considers a lot if not all of the changes you suggest, because it's great when the team behind a product actively listens to suggestions, because then they're able to constantly improve it.
Awesome, literally redesigning a pro software UI at the moment. These vids make me howl. Learning some stuff too!
"Might seem trivial" should be the title of this entire review.
There's an obvious reason why the note button doesn't do anything unless note input is turned on; it changes the length of the selected rest. It makes editing timing in a measure very easy. You can just press N on the keyboard to immediately enter note input mode. So you can go back in forth between editing notes and editing rests with a keystroke and the same set of buttons. Once you understand this, it's very intuitive. The only thing I would say on this is the note input should default on rather than default off and it should change the icon between a note and a rest to show which mode you're in.
15:58
Normal people: Press the X on the upper right corner
Tantacrul: Goes to the side and find a teensy arrow and slides it