This will reflect poorly on your year end performance review. JK... but I sure hope they wait until the next cycle to fix this.... even though I know the community said bug fixes were okay mid-cycle.
If you read the skill it being a bug is ambiguous as it does not state that it stacks or not. All it says is enemies have negative resists when they have an arrow in them but it doesn't state what happens if there are multiple arrows in them. Is it way too strong? Yes but it being a bug is up for debate.
Great work testing. I think you might have called this out on your earlier video response to the EHG survey but this seems like a case where a lot of players may have assumed that this build was "safe" since it's not bugged and "just" heavily overperforming. With how many bugs have snuck in, it almost seems like any build has the potential to be bug fixed mid league, and upset a lot of players who feel blindsided. Not commenting on whether or not I agree with this, but as far as player sentiment goes, a mid cycle reduction in power would have a similar impact regardless of if it was something "overperforming" or a bug that was only discovered after they committed to a build. That said, it's definitely better to deal with this sort of thing sooner rather than later so that we don't set unhealthy expectations going forward.
I knew it was not safe when I threw on two 0 LP daggers with a bunch of random gear and melted Majasa within a fraction of a second. I don't have all skill points allocated and only have passive points up to level 65, with many of them in defensives. I thought wraithlord was bugged but this is another level lol.
My first Character was a Warpath Voidknight. With solid gear (no melee crit on wepaon) a Monolith Boss on 100 Corruption took me about 2 - 2,5 min. After i did all content with him, i picked this build as my next build to compare how strong a "meta" build is. I fresh came to Empowered Monolith at Character Level 78, had only the both daggers and random rare/exalted items i found while levling and i killed Lagon in 1-2 Seconds. There was not even a 2nd Phase. I felt like i cheated compared to my Warpath Build. Echos super fast and great clear as well. It felt like i playing Diablo 2 in Normal Difficulty but with a Endgame Level 99 Character. Even when this build losing 90% of its damage, its still ok.
I want bugs to be fixed even if its positive just as much as I want negative bugs fixed. I want the game to be played the way it was intended with a lot of creativity. Thanks for all of the work and hopefully if the bug "nerfs" it too much they can buff it a little bit to keep it strong without being broken - this goes for every bug not just this one. I appreciate the hard work! EDIT: Goes without saying, I now hate you and all content creators are evil and want all games to fail.
I am very interesting in why lightning tendrils > DA explosion. I have some thoughts and wanna do some testing. Can you describe how you tested it and what are the skill talent set-ups respectively.
Even if these are bugs and they are removed you can still have 10 Detonating Arrow per Cast of Explosive Trap with an insane amount of flat damage through the double daggers, this build will still do giga damage regardless.
Hi Mate, I've tested the tendrils and they are correctly scaling for me at 75% added damage effectiveness on single target dummies. Piercing Thunder is also correctly applying the lightning pen only to the tendrils, and the added damage effectiveness of the tendril remains at 75%. The big thing with the Piercing thunder tough is the +100% shock chance, giving all of your subsequent lightning damages (hit + explosion + tendril) an additional 50% additive More multiplier (reduced on bosses) . That's probably still going to outweigh the More multipliers effective for the DA explosions alone. Without seeing what you tested, with tendrils alone vs full DA explosion scaling, not sure why you experienced something different. I do agree with the Copper Dust Arrow though, that's super easy to test on the dummy and is either a bug or a badly tuned skill node. It should really stay at -20% so long as at least 1 arrow is attached.
The shock chance will have no effect in the testing. Shock is very easy to come by and is hard capped at a 20% multi on bosses. You'd have to give me a much more comprehensive answer on how you tested Tendrils added damage effectiveness for me to take that seriously.
@@McFluffinGaming In the DA builds those 4 points guarantee shock, and it's free damage. In any case, you can take out all points in detonating arrow except what is necessary for tendrils. Take out all points in the trap skill except what is needed for detonating arrow to cast. You can test unarmed, with a bow, one dagger, two daggers. Unarmed and with a bow is easiest. Throw one trap on one side of the dummy. Throw a second trap exactly opposite that one, on the other side of the dummy. Throw all other traps away somewhere else, making sure there is no intersect between those, the dummy and the first trap (since all armed traps cast DA at the first trap that explodes). When you've thrown the 7th trap, the first one explodes. The second one shoots it's arrow toward the first, giving you a hit, an explosion, and one tendril. All remaining 5 traps also explode and send an arrow to the first one. Be careful with the location of those 5 versus the first, since DA can explode on some surfaces, creating an extra tendril each if you're not careful. I recorded all 3 of those numbers and solved the damage equation for the added damage effectiveness of each. There is the +- 20% variance to consider, but for this I took 10ish samples of each method to get an average final hit value for the added damage effectiveness calculation. With the daggers it's a bit more tricky, but the method is the same. Throw one trap far away to be the trigger. Throw the second trap opposite again, but as close as possible to the dummy without exploding, due to the now melee range of DA. Throw the rest away. Now you will still get 3 numbers, and can do the same reverse calculation for the effectiveness. Then, add the points for penetrating thunder and repeat with the daggers. Doing all of this shows that the 75% is correct. You'd need to do a lot more trials to get it exactly 75% because of the variance, but my average was ~78%. Both the hit and explosion effectiveness also checked out. Is that comprehensive enough? I can share the recorded figures and method 🤷
@@TheWingManGaming Yeah I understand how Shock works. It's extremely easy to get externally from the skill, so it's value is marginal in the build and caps at 20% on bosses regardless of the source. I don't really understand your methodology in the Effectiveness testing, but I'd be interested in seeing your data. You can message me on Disc (You can join my server to find me. Invite is in the vid description).
The builds even more powerful if you stack throwing damage on every piece of gear possible instead of lightning damage. Lightning damage is just a bonus
Dammit. Really wish EHG would balance and fix their game properly. Warlock, Falconer, Jelkhor... Every single build I've tried has either been overturned or bugged now 🤣 Think I'm just gonna put LE on the backburner till 1.1. Hopefully by then I'll be able to play without feeling like I'm playing something that's broken af. Thanks for testing and finding this sucker!
I'll be glad if they fix the boss wiping aspect of this. I just tried without Copper Dust Arrow and the build is still performing really well due to how well it scales with flat damage on daggers, its slammed flat affixed, and the plenty of increased % dmg you get from double dipping %movement speed (5/5 Agility passive node) into both melee and lightning increased that get both added together for DA. T7 Experimental Haste on Vanguard Boots and constant haste uptime makes this a fast echo clear (~150% movement speed) regardless of it being fixed. Fix the penetration and we'll be able to enjoy boss fights too.
This bug completely killed game. The person who hit the highest 6450 corr yesterday posted a video on UA-cam. And I found 4 more users on UA-cam who were level 5000+ DA build makes me feel so much relative deprivation.
The reason why lightning tendrils is much better than explosions is because lightning tendrils chains effectively multiplying damage in density. So those 6 hits chain to each of the 6 other mobs. So in density each mob would get hit 6 times on 1 tic of tendrils. If you look at the skill on last epoch tools it says chains 6m. Each tendril 6x the dmg but only in density. On single target it is just 1. Looks to be working as intended.
@McFluffinGaming yes if you test on 1 target it will only get hit once 6 tendrils go out 1 hits one target and that is it. If you have more than 1 target 6 tendrils go out tendrils 1 hits 1 target and chains to everything, tendrils 2 hits target 2 and chains to everything etc. In essence in order for a tendrils to chain and damage there needs to be a target. Which explains why it is better in density. Test with more than one target. 6 targets everything gets hit 6 times 1 target is just 1 time.
I just wanna say something.. I know there are two types of people those who love balancing done by nerf and those who prefer balancing done by not nerfing but overpowering the other classes. I belive if something is vastly overpowered then its not because that class is bad it means the class is good and fun to play. So what can be done to alleviate those who want to moan about it.. make every class overpowered or multiple ways to overpower each class. at least then we get variable overpowered gameplay instead of variable boring long slogs to endgames with average characters.
Very nice work, i've been sussing the boss DPS of trap-DA build for a while but doesnt have a MM to properly test it out. Very glad someone actually spend their time investigating stuff instead of joining the "best build in LE" bandwagon Just gave a subscribe, hope to see more work like this from you in the future
Do you think they gonna fix it ? And how long till they figure out the real problem ? I'm pretty sure they actually know that the build is op and didnt nerf it yet....
It obviously looked bugged tbh when I saw this build first time. Given ur deep knowledge about the skills and builds, could u pls make a ranged bow build multi shot or hail of arrows etc
You can test the tendril damage effectiveness thing by using the melee attack to test single explosions so you don't get swamped by a million damage numbers. This also removes Copper Dust Arrow stacking from the results. Like, it is definitely obviously bugged in some way, my level 66 or so character with just 2 0LP jelkhors and mediocre gear otherwise should not 1 phase Mono Lagon with the spongy health pool he has. Like it should still be strong because the build motors out like 10-15 attacks over the span of 2-3 seconds and stacks shreds to the moon due to motoring out *so many hits* (you have the trap hits, the acid flasks and the arrow hits before the explosions even happen) but it's clear that something weird is going on under the hood edit: whatever is happening with tendrils or really the spell as a whole appears to be related to how many targets get hit by a single cast of Detonating Arrow. when I melee a single target out of a group of mobs I get expected damage numbers. When 1 melee hits like 6-7 of them I get whackadoo damage numbers. This is why it isn't reliable with the trap-melee casts, but it is reliable from using the melee directly. Tested at the grouped dummies: I get x2 damage from 2 targets melee'd but only one explosion. Both instances of damage (explosion and tendrils) are doubled. I think that's a confirm. If you want to test for yourself you have to position to hit 2 then use shift to hold position because otherwise move-to-melee setting will make you move. (or turn off that setting). repeated melee doesn't appear to trigger this on the single dummies so the boss damage is probably just CDA stacking. additional weirdness: arrows appear to be applied to the target you are closest to regardless of trap placement. this is exceptionally weird because if the cast is turning into a melee attack it should be a melee attack centered on the trap. the normal dummies not counting as enemies helped test this because it means the trap sprinkler nodes don't trigger against them. testing against live mobs was considerably messier (because I don't wanna wreck this character by unspeccing her all the way, lol) but I think it's still happening there. edit 2: related to above, if you are too far away from any target, tendrils will spawn from you. This only happens with TRAP MELEE DA. I can't get it to happen with the melee strike or from trap bow casts. (Trap bow casts don't have the above weirdness either)
I like your content, but i kinda hate you for this video 😀 I played 250h in EA and 400 hours since release... Played my own version of Shadow Dagger / Divebomb-Stuff while trying not to abuse the Smoke Bomb bug... still pushed to 1k corruption. Nevertheless, after the bugfix (which i strongly encouraged in forums, even though i played the build myself), i switched to this Detonating Arrow build... cause even after fully investing into 60% Endurance + high Threshhold and all (2x Red Rings) instead of ward, i was an absolute one-shot in Boss-fights. I'm at 700 corruption now, still going strong (did a TON of prophecies in between, otherwise i'd be at 1k+ now too). Thought this build was very strong, but knowing Miners / Trappers from PoE, i didn't really think it was a bug. Well... sucks having ANOTHER build shredded, even though i'm absolutely pro fixing major bugs during cycles. Probably won't be starting another build this cycle... even though i got some crazy items for other builds.
Yeah it sucks. The best thing we can do is try to get these bugs out of the game ASAP so people don't continue to get bamboozled by them. BTW, there's no guarantee this gets fixed before 1.1.
@@McFluffinGamingYeah... that's why i reported the Smoke Bomb-Interaction as soon as i noticed it on their discord channel... I mean, a skill being overpowered because of scaling is sth completely different from OPness thanks to a bug. Finding OP-interactions is all the fun in theorycrafting 🙂
This is not my experience. I can oneshot mobs with detonating arrow casting directly as a melee hit and i see that is the explosion the source of damage. You can clearly notice this if you increase the area of expolsion. One exolosion will oneshot half screen.
Im using snowdrift as boots and i have 2 of them: One Is giving me 9 damage One 7. I see 500 DPS increase in detonating Arrow tooltip if i switch them and It Is too much for only 2 flat damage. Maybe you are right. Tendrils should scale with bow damage, you can test them using flat bow damage i think.probably they interact with Arrow in some unintended ways.
Have you tried the test without the daggers and just normally doing it with a bow? I saw this tech and figured looks good, I'll just deal with the mana cost and level up with this with a bow. And while leveling with a bow my no damage explosive trap literally did more damage.
Explosive Trap doesn't come online until you can fully invest in the multiple traps with -mana cost on rings. Then it gets ~5-10 times more powerful than direct cast.
@@McFluffinGamingI think you misread my message, I tried explo trap which does detonate arrow while wielding a bow, and I had nothing invested in traps and still my traps were doing more damage than my DA. I think the tendrils might be bugs might only be with the daggers and not with the bows.
Well if it must be fixed, let it be... as long as the build isnt put down to the underworld of Trash tier i'm okay... Still a little frustrating that before i've watched your video i was thinking about the build to be strong (cause every game have his broken build), not because of a bug.. I've only been played this build for like 20 hours, lvl 67 now taking my time, and the only bug i see is my screen freeze sometimes even though i have a very good setup😅. Maybe the game isn't correctly optimized for now, cause i'm not sure a rtx 4080, 32ram and an i9 13900 should struggle (even a little) on this kind of game. Maybe the build is meant to brings this situation, idk That being said let's see where they're going with balancing the game. I will have my fun while it last trying to push the char to lvl 100, it's a bare minimum.
Tendrils base lightining damage is 15 while detonating arrow is 2, I think that explains the tendrils part. For the copper dust arrow , by the way it's worded, it seems like the effect should apply only once. I really hope they dont lock the effect to -20%, it a nice interaction to have more arrows scaling the effect, but 20% is way to much
You get almost 200 added damage from the daggers which apply to both tendrils and explosions. The base damage is negligible and doesn't explain anything about the performance difference.
You clearly did a lot more testing than me, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just want to help you figure it out for everyone. If you dont get flat lightning dmg on the daggers affixes the maximum is 130. 15 is not negligible. I did really basic testing on this, the tendrils on single target and one at a time almost doubled the damage, which is to be expected. Maybe the crazy damage you noticed has to do with the debuff stacking because it counts as hits? @@McFluffinGaming
I thought the damage per point of mana was the problem since jelkors removed all cost making an expensive but hard hitting skill free and allowed the spamming of it via traps
Crazy builds are what I absolutely love when playing ARPGs, unfortunately all 5 of my build this cycle in LE are bugged haha. Bone curse, the instant kill ignite, the infi dmg and ward falconer, and now the detonating arrow which I didn't even know it is bugged :P Well, fun while they lasted at least.
I don't think this game intends for any build to do enough DPS to delete a boss before it can complete a cycle of its mechanics. If you keep looking for builds that follow this criteria, then you better start getting used to bug fixes and/or the nerf hammer.
Yep, guys like me saying they over nerfed in S1 while still leaving up broken bugged things like Earthen Bulwark damage scaling with enemy level that uber homogenized builds are exactly what happened there. Good analysis.
EHG said every build over 4 digits in coruption is unintended and is a mistake on their part, either a bug or overtuned, so stop throwing tantrums for a build that you copy pasted. Did you copy it because it looked fun? Then why would fixing the bug even matter? Mechanics remain the same Did you do it to feel good about yourself? Brag to your friends for getting high coruption copying a build that everybody knows it gets high coruption? :))))) Play offline and activate god mode then... what a joke :)))))
Wdym with my logic? EHG themselves said 4 digits as a proxy of powerlevel. Other ways of measuring powerlevel could be beating T4 Julra in under X seconds or getting X waves in Arena. So the problems is the Powerelevel Disparity and not the way you measure it. Why is the powerlevel disparity a problem? Because It DISCOURAGES trying other builds and creating entirely new ones! Why would someone try forgeguard, sorcerer, shaman when they don't have the potential of getting 1k corruption with PERFECT gear, while this bugged mess gets to 1k with minimum investment.@@MrKoutavis
Yes, 'an arrow', singular, and the damage values make sense only for a single instance. I've played this game long enough to know if that were meant to be multiple arrows it would've been immediately picked up on as busted.
Try playing without Automated Bombardment (single target) for explosive trap and see the difference I think you aren't fully correct in what the issue is :D
I didn't say the build wasn't still powerful without all of the other features it has (in fact I said it was still S tier). These are just the bugs that put it over the top into omega ST destroyer territory.
@@McFluffinGaming I am saying you should try it I think the bug is that there are too many traps retriggering in such a short period of time and if they scaled down the traps being retriggered it would fix it.
@@McFluffinGaming Its not effecting how many that are coming out. Its effecting when one explodes the chance for fresh trap to also be dropped at the target
I'm not doing anything to your build, but unfortunately for you its very bugged. If you play something that is dealing drastically more damage than the norm, there's a good chance it's at least partially due to a bug.
Deal with it mate. Shouldn't be exploiting bugs regardless of whether or not they are META. Should probably change your perception of what constitutes "fun" or you'll be in for a lot more disappointment in the future... Or don't.. I mean do whatever you want, it's your funeral..
It's an op build, but it's also not. The #1 marksman in arena is only wave 500. This build is a fun mono-farming build, but it isn't breaking the game for anyone.
If the bug is fixed, not only one but numerous users of this game will leave because of you. I feel very bad. 500 hours of gameplay It has been in vain.
Builds like this make the game exciting. I don’t want to drive the speed limit when there isn’t one, I want to go fast. Every ARPG has its crazy builds. This is what YOU want, no one else who’s played this build wants what you call “balance”. Having everything fall in line is the same as Baskin Robbin’s having 32 flavors, but they’re all Vanilla. smh. Unsubbed.
@@zombie93I've been playing the build, and I want it to be fixed. I brought up the elemental debuff to Raxx on his stream several days ago because I thought it was bugged. I don't like relying on literally broken builds.
@@voidstar.studioI'm not even playing the build. My point is let the players have their fun. I'd rather they fix the broken interactions; things that straight up don't work vs. taking some fun away.
@@zombie93 you said, quote - "no on else who's played this build wants what you call balance." - end quote. well, you're wrong. that's not an accurate statement.
Yes, fixing broken OP things that trivialize the game and make other builds feel bad in comparison so that the game can maintain the build diversity that this game flourishes on is totally trying to ruin the game for people. I'm sorry the build you play will only be S tier after it works as intended and you'll actually have to learn how to do boss mechanics.
I'm sorry that you're in such a rough spot in life that you feel the need to ruin peoples fun. You must be that guy at partys who says "HEY...SOMEONE SPIKED THE PUNCH BOWL!" @@McFluffinGaming
So you're the kind of guy that thinks spiking the non alcoholic punch bowl and fooling people to drink alcohol they didn't agree to is a good thing? I see.
Most normal gamers who love LE like to farm gear and be rewarded. Most people well barely hit corruption 200 with this build. To actually try to nerf it is just not a good look for you. No matter how you try to spin this you should have never posted it.
Thank God there was a poll they did.. otherwise I'd think you vocal minority who don't want balance or even bug fixes were the majority. Feels like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of these takes.
Who wants to play a perfectly balanced game where all builds are exactly equal? Seems a weird thing to want in an aRPG. We want to have fun and feel OP. Not be perfectly balanced. That's what season resets are for no?
If the only way you can have fun is by killing a boss before it has a chance to do a single mechanic, you're welcome! And my track record on bug reporting over the last 4 years is pretty solid :)
@@McFluffinGaming seems you're proud of your "achievement". i'm happy you feel fufilled, players don't want to struggle at 300c how the devs want them to. You're a grown adult and i hope you find something outside of bug patrolling to help you sleep at night
@@ActualCut git gud you scrub or don't play the game. If you can't cope without bugs that play the game for you, then you shouldn't play at all.. If you like the idea of one shotting bosses to completely bypass their mechanics, then why don't you just go do some file editing in offline mode? And then you'd probably end up getting banned anyway.. So maybe go find another game that meets your criteria of "fun"..
You didn't prove anything. You couldn't find a way to make the build better. So you make assumptions that it's bugged. Smh. Content like this hurts the community.
Lmfao where is the proof that its bugged because this doesnt show anything 😂 and your doing is sitting assuming u know what your talking about when u have no idea
@@McFluffinGaming your literality saying After I have tested it for 3 to 4 days nothing about what we have tested lol and "what I THINK is what's wrong" lmfao u dont even know so please stop saying u Do when u dont
@@XGodXSlayerX420Exactly! This guy is just spewing nonsense.. When you ask him for proof he just says "Trust me bro".. No wonder this dude has very low sub count considering the amount of video he has
Go test it yourself and see. - ele res node stacks, suckerpunch stacks (increasing arming time causes more stacking), then lightning tendrils are bugged in some way doing more dmg than what they should at their base dmg and dmg effect. All are relatively easy to test and prove. Also his uncertainty is with what the EXACT issue is, the fact remains they are bugged.
@@McFluffinGaming Yeah totally your fault.. No wonder you have a very low sub count.. You just have to be a dck to everyone.. You must be fun at parties..
That's why I'm playing the Fire version with dragonsong atm because i knew there must be a bug somewhere with the lightning nods .. I still do really good damage both ST and AOE even with just 15% explosion chance "still solving the mana issue" .
Damn it McFluffin
feeelsbad 😞
its not bug, because the dagger change bow & arrow into 2 dagger. so all passive should count as melee dagger passive.
@@mikemike6182 dude do you even know whats going on?
This will reflect poorly on your year end performance review. JK... but I sure hope they wait until the next cycle to fix this.... even though I know the community said bug fixes were okay mid-cycle.
If you read the skill it being a bug is ambiguous as it does not state that it stacks or not. All it says is enemies have negative resists when they have an arrow in them but it doesn't state what happens if there are multiple arrows in them. Is it way too strong? Yes but it being a bug is up for debate.
What's even more crazy, is when you go into melee range, you can kill bosses in seconds at high corruption.
The crazy comments from people playing this build are so funny.
Great work testing. I think you might have called this out on your earlier video response to the EHG survey but this seems like a case where a lot of players may have assumed that this build was "safe" since it's not bugged and "just" heavily overperforming. With how many bugs have snuck in, it almost seems like any build has the potential to be bug fixed mid league, and upset a lot of players who feel blindsided.
Not commenting on whether or not I agree with this, but as far as player sentiment goes, a mid cycle reduction in power would have a similar impact regardless of if it was something "overperforming" or a bug that was only discovered after they committed to a build.
That said, it's definitely better to deal with this sort of thing sooner rather than later so that we don't set unhealthy expectations going forward.
I knew it was not safe when I threw on two 0 LP daggers with a bunch of random gear and melted Majasa within a fraction of a second. I don't have all skill points allocated and only have passive points up to level 65, with many of them in defensives. I thought wraithlord was bugged but this is another level lol.
1 month later, still nothing on this build. That's crazy.
My first Character was a Warpath Voidknight. With solid gear (no melee crit on wepaon) a Monolith Boss on 100 Corruption took me about 2 - 2,5 min. After i did all content with him, i picked this build as my next build to compare how strong a "meta" build is. I fresh came to Empowered Monolith at Character Level 78, had only the both daggers and random rare/exalted items i found while levling and i killed Lagon in 1-2 Seconds. There was not even a 2nd Phase. I felt like i cheated compared to my Warpath Build. Echos super fast and great clear as well. It felt like i playing Diablo 2 in Normal Difficulty but with a Endgame Level 99 Character. Even when this build losing 90% of its damage, its still ok.
I want bugs to be fixed even if its positive just as much as I want negative bugs fixed. I want the game to be played the way it was intended with a lot of creativity. Thanks for all of the work and hopefully if the bug "nerfs" it too much they can buff it a little bit to keep it strong without being broken - this goes for every bug not just this one. I appreciate the hard work!
EDIT: Goes without saying, I now hate you and all content creators are evil and want all games to fail.
I am very interesting in why lightning tendrils > DA explosion. I have some thoughts and wanna do some testing. Can you describe how you tested it and what are the skill talent set-ups respectively.
Even if these are bugs and they are removed you can still have 10 Detonating Arrow per Cast of Explosive Trap with an insane amount of flat damage through the double daggers, this build will still do giga damage regardless.
Which is why I said it's still S Tier in the vid, but not deleting bosses in 3 seconds kind of broken.
Hi Mate,
I've tested the tendrils and they are correctly scaling for me at 75% added damage effectiveness on single target dummies.
Piercing Thunder is also correctly applying the lightning pen only to the tendrils, and the added damage effectiveness of the tendril remains at 75%.
The big thing with the Piercing thunder tough is the +100% shock chance, giving all of your subsequent lightning damages (hit + explosion + tendril) an additional 50% additive More multiplier (reduced on bosses) . That's probably still going to outweigh the More multipliers effective for the DA explosions alone.
Without seeing what you tested, with tendrils alone vs full DA explosion scaling, not sure why you experienced something different.
I do agree with the Copper Dust Arrow though, that's super easy to test on the dummy and is either a bug or a badly tuned skill node. It should really stay at -20% so long as at least 1 arrow is attached.
The shock chance will have no effect in the testing. Shock is very easy to come by and is hard capped at a 20% multi on bosses. You'd have to give me a much more comprehensive answer on how you tested Tendrils added damage effectiveness for me to take that seriously.
@@McFluffinGaming In the DA builds those 4 points guarantee shock, and it's free damage.
In any case, you can take out all points in detonating arrow except what is necessary for tendrils. Take out all points in the trap skill except what is needed for detonating arrow to cast.
You can test unarmed, with a bow, one dagger, two daggers.
Unarmed and with a bow is easiest. Throw one trap on one side of the dummy. Throw a second trap exactly opposite that one, on the other side of the dummy. Throw all other traps away somewhere else, making sure there is no intersect between those, the dummy and the first trap (since all armed traps cast DA at the first trap that explodes).
When you've thrown the 7th trap, the first one explodes. The second one shoots it's arrow toward the first, giving you a hit, an explosion, and one tendril. All remaining 5 traps also explode and send an arrow to the first one. Be careful with the location of those 5 versus the first, since DA can explode on some surfaces, creating an extra tendril each if you're not careful.
I recorded all 3 of those numbers and solved the damage equation for the added damage effectiveness of each. There is the +- 20% variance to consider, but for this I took 10ish samples of each method to get an average final hit value for the added damage effectiveness calculation.
With the daggers it's a bit more tricky, but the method is the same. Throw one trap far away to be the trigger. Throw the second trap opposite again, but as close as possible to the dummy without exploding, due to the now melee range of DA. Throw the rest away. Now you will still get 3 numbers, and can do the same reverse calculation for the effectiveness.
Then, add the points for penetrating thunder and repeat with the daggers.
Doing all of this shows that the 75% is correct. You'd need to do a lot more trials to get it exactly 75% because of the variance, but my average was ~78%. Both the hit and explosion effectiveness also checked out.
Is that comprehensive enough? I can share the recorded figures and method 🤷
@@TheWingManGaming Yeah I understand how Shock works. It's extremely easy to get externally from the skill, so it's value is marginal in the build and caps at 20% on bosses regardless of the source.
I don't really understand your methodology in the Effectiveness testing, but I'd be interested in seeing your data. You can message me on Disc (You can join my server to find me. Invite is in the vid description).
@@McFluffinGaming Whatever the problem is, it isn't this. I'll try to summarise in a vid on Thursday. Added Damage Effectiveness is fine.
The builds even more powerful if you stack throwing damage on every piece of gear possible instead of lightning damage. Lightning damage is just a bonus
Dammit. Really wish EHG would balance and fix their game properly. Warlock, Falconer, Jelkhor... Every single build I've tried has either been overturned or bugged now 🤣 Think I'm just gonna put LE on the backburner till 1.1. Hopefully by then I'll be able to play without feeling like I'm playing something that's broken af.
Thanks for testing and finding this sucker!
To be fair..it sounds like you picked the literal 3 strongest and most popular things going around? :< forgeknight
I'll be glad if they fix the boss wiping aspect of this. I just tried without Copper Dust Arrow and the build is still performing really well due to how well it scales with flat damage on daggers, its slammed flat affixed, and the plenty of increased % dmg you get from double dipping %movement speed (5/5 Agility passive node) into both melee and lightning increased that get both added together for DA. T7 Experimental Haste on Vanguard Boots and constant haste uptime makes this a fast echo clear (~150% movement speed) regardless of it being fixed. Fix the penetration and we'll be able to enjoy boss fights too.
I've been enjoying boss fights. In a way where they just die! lol
This bug completely killed game.
The person who hit the highest 6450 corr yesterday posted a video on UA-cam. And I found 4 more users on UA-cam who were level 5000+
DA build makes me feel so much relative deprivation.
The reason why lightning tendrils is much better than explosions is because lightning tendrils chains effectively multiplying damage in density. So those 6 hits chain to each of the 6 other mobs. So in density each mob would get hit 6 times on 1 tic of tendrils. If you look at the skill on last epoch tools it says chains 6m. Each tendril 6x the dmg but only in density. On single target it is just 1. Looks to be working as intended.
No, this isn't the reason. As stated in the vid, we tested on single target.
@McFluffinGaming yes if you test on 1 target it will only get hit once 6 tendrils go out 1 hits one target and that is it. If you have more than 1 target 6 tendrils go out tendrils 1 hits 1 target and chains to everything, tendrils 2 hits target 2 and chains to everything etc.
In essence in order for a tendrils to chain and damage there needs to be a target. Which explains why it is better in density. Test with more than one target.
6 targets everything gets hit 6 times 1 target is just 1 time.
@@paulmarkbevey You cant tell this guy anything. He's always right regardless if literally all his builds are worse than the other maxroll guys.
I just wanna say something.. I know there are two types of people those who love balancing done by nerf and those who prefer balancing done by not nerfing but overpowering the other classes. I belive if something is vastly overpowered then its not because that class is bad it means the class is good and fun to play. So what can be done to alleviate those who want to moan about it.. make every class overpowered or multiple ways to overpower each class. at least then we get variable overpowered gameplay instead of variable boring long slogs to endgames with average characters.
Very nice work, i've been sussing the boss DPS of trap-DA build for a while but doesnt have a MM to properly test it out. Very glad someone actually spend their time investigating stuff instead of joining the "best build in LE" bandwagon
Just gave a subscribe, hope to see more work like this from you in the future
Do you work at Last epoch? im wondering cus of the background
It's very obvious that the damage ramps to an insane degree for some reason. The negative resistance stacking would makes sense
So many things in this game are bugged and broken.. I'm getting wolcen flashbacks
EHG please fix it. and yes I played warlock and falcorner
Do you think they gonna fix it ? And how long till they figure out the real problem ? I'm pretty sure they actually know that the build is op and didnt nerf it yet....
got my popcorn ready for the reddit threads, forum outcries and reaction videos 🍿
It obviously looked bugged tbh when I saw this build first time.
Given ur deep knowledge about the skills and builds, could u pls make a ranged bow build multi shot or hail of arrows etc
So this is why i have so much trouble clearing mobs far away. My detonation dont deal the dmg as i thought its the lightning that does
Thanks for testing, at least now we know what type of nerf EHG will do. I hope it still gonna be viable next cycle coz build is so much fun. O:
If all they do is fix these bugs it would still be S tier
So many sad humans in the comment section attacking someone trying to make the game better.
You can test the tendril damage effectiveness thing by using the melee attack to test single explosions so you don't get swamped by a million damage numbers. This also removes Copper Dust Arrow stacking from the results.
Like, it is definitely obviously bugged in some way, my level 66 or so character with just 2 0LP jelkhors and mediocre gear otherwise should not 1 phase Mono Lagon with the spongy health pool he has. Like it should still be strong because the build motors out like 10-15 attacks over the span of 2-3 seconds and stacks shreds to the moon due to motoring out *so many hits* (you have the trap hits, the acid flasks and the arrow hits before the explosions even happen) but it's clear that something weird is going on under the hood
edit: whatever is happening with tendrils or really the spell as a whole appears to be related to how many targets get hit by a single cast of Detonating Arrow. when I melee a single target out of a group of mobs I get expected damage numbers. When 1 melee hits like 6-7 of them I get whackadoo damage numbers. This is why it isn't reliable with the trap-melee casts, but it is reliable from using the melee directly.
Tested at the grouped dummies: I get x2 damage from 2 targets melee'd but only one explosion. Both instances of damage (explosion and tendrils) are doubled. I think that's a confirm. If you want to test for yourself you have to position to hit 2 then use shift to hold position because otherwise move-to-melee setting will make you move. (or turn off that setting). repeated melee doesn't appear to trigger this on the single dummies so the boss damage is probably just CDA stacking.
additional weirdness: arrows appear to be applied to the target you are closest to regardless of trap placement. this is exceptionally weird because if the cast is turning into a melee attack it should be a melee attack centered on the trap.
the normal dummies not counting as enemies helped test this because it means the trap sprinkler nodes don't trigger against them. testing against live mobs was considerably messier (because I don't wanna wreck this character by unspeccing her all the way, lol) but I think it's still happening there.
edit 2: related to above, if you are too far away from any target, tendrils will spawn from you. This only happens with TRAP MELEE DA. I can't get it to happen with the melee strike or from trap bow casts. (Trap bow casts don't have the above weirdness either)
I like your content, but i kinda hate you for this video 😀
I played 250h in EA and 400 hours since release... Played my own version of Shadow Dagger / Divebomb-Stuff while trying not to abuse the Smoke Bomb bug... still pushed to 1k corruption. Nevertheless, after the bugfix (which i strongly encouraged in forums, even though i played the build myself), i switched to this Detonating Arrow build... cause even after fully investing into 60% Endurance + high Threshhold and all (2x Red Rings) instead of ward, i was an absolute one-shot in Boss-fights.
I'm at 700 corruption now, still going strong (did a TON of prophecies in between, otherwise i'd be at 1k+ now too). Thought this build was very strong, but knowing Miners / Trappers from PoE, i didn't really think it was a bug. Well... sucks having ANOTHER build shredded, even though i'm absolutely pro fixing major bugs during cycles. Probably won't be starting another build this cycle... even though i got some crazy items for other builds.
Yeah it sucks. The best thing we can do is try to get these bugs out of the game ASAP so people don't continue to get bamboozled by them. BTW, there's no guarantee this gets fixed before 1.1.
@@McFluffinGamingYeah... that's why i reported the Smoke Bomb-Interaction as soon as i noticed it on their discord channel... I mean, a skill being overpowered because of scaling is sth completely different from OPness thanks to a bug. Finding OP-interactions is all the fun in theorycrafting 🙂
This is not my experience. I can oneshot mobs with detonating arrow casting directly as a melee hit and i see that is the explosion the source of damage. You can clearly notice this if you increase the area of expolsion. One exolosion will oneshot half screen.
This isnt a test on normal enemies. Its on bosses where the disparity is much easier to see.
Im using snowdrift as boots and i have 2 of them: One Is giving me 9 damage One 7. I see 500 DPS increase in detonating Arrow tooltip if i switch them and It Is too much for only 2 flat damage. Maybe you are right. Tendrils should scale with bow damage, you can test them using flat bow damage i think.probably they interact with Arrow in some unintended ways.
It's a bug game. I demand that the bugs be fixed as quickly as before.
Have you tried the test without the daggers and just normally doing it with a bow? I saw this tech and figured looks good, I'll just deal with the mana cost and level up with this with a bow. And while leveling with a bow my no damage explosive trap literally did more damage.
Explosive Trap doesn't come online until you can fully invest in the multiple traps with -mana cost on rings. Then it gets ~5-10 times more powerful than direct cast.
@@McFluffinGamingI think you misread my message, I tried explo trap which does detonate arrow while wielding a bow, and I had nothing invested in traps and still my traps were doing more damage than my DA. I think the tendrils might be bugs might only be with the daggers and not with the bows.
@@MattiKettu oh I see. Thats interesting
@@McFluffinGaming It is interesting. Maybe melee DA is implemented as separate skill internally, and has defects that the bow version doesn't.
Yea, it's the Jelkhor daggers interaction with the tendrils. Expect prices for these items are going to drop soon@@MattiKettu
Good find.
I wonder when they will fix it.
Nice, so we found a solution, let’s get McFluffin some QA tools and we’ll see LE quality skyrocket!
Needs a nerf, 2k corruption bosses dying in 5 seconds lmao
People talk about how fun it is to make builds in this game but.. there are so many bugs that it seems like more trial and error than theory crafting
Well if it must be fixed, let it be... as long as the build isnt put down to the underworld of Trash tier i'm okay...
Still a little frustrating that before i've watched your video i was thinking about the build to be strong (cause every game have his broken build), not because of a bug..
I've only been played this build for like 20 hours, lvl 67 now taking my time, and the only bug i see is my screen freeze sometimes even though i have a very good setup😅.
Maybe the game isn't correctly optimized for now, cause i'm not sure a rtx 4080, 32ram and an i9 13900 should struggle (even a little) on this kind of game. Maybe the build is meant to brings this situation, idk
That being said let's see where they're going with balancing the game.
I will have my fun while it last trying to push the char to lvl 100, it's a bare minimum.
thank you - bugs like that have to be fixed. keep up the good work =)
Tendrils base lightining damage is 15 while detonating arrow is 2, I think that explains the tendrils part.
For the copper dust arrow , by the way it's worded, it seems like the effect should apply only once. I really hope they dont lock the effect to -20%, it a nice interaction to have more arrows scaling the effect, but 20% is way to much
You get almost 200 added damage from the daggers which apply to both tendrils and explosions. The base damage is negligible and doesn't explain anything about the performance difference.
You clearly did a lot more testing than me, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just want to help you figure it out for everyone.
If you dont get flat lightning dmg on the daggers affixes the maximum is 130. 15 is not negligible.
I did really basic testing on this, the tendrils on single target and one at a time almost doubled the damage, which is to be expected. Maybe the crazy damage you noticed has to do with the debuff stacking because it counts as hits?
@@McFluffinGaming
I thought the damage per point of mana was the problem since jelkors removed all cost making an expensive but hard hitting skill free and allowed the spamming of it via traps
No, most builds don't even use this node.
@@McFluffinGaming not the mana cost node, getting 2 jelkors alone makes it cost 0
@@ersetzbar. this makes it strong for sure. The bugs make it absolutely broken.
Here we go lol Figured
Eeeek. He's just the messenger!
Just the messenger? He said he spent days testing to prove this. Not saying he’s wrong, but hardly just the messenger.
@@Now0rnever213 I spent days testing to see if there were any bugs. Unfortunately there were. I went in expecting it to just be a balancing issue.
We voted for bugs to get fixed .. we can't go crazy when bugs are pointed out.
Crazy builds are what I absolutely love when playing ARPGs, unfortunately all 5 of my build this cycle in LE are bugged haha. Bone curse, the instant kill ignite, the infi dmg and ward falconer, and now the detonating arrow which I didn't even know it is bugged :P Well, fun while they lasted at least.
I don't think this game intends for any build to do enough DPS to delete a boss before it can complete a cycle of its mechanics. If you keep looking for builds that follow this criteria, then you better start getting used to bug fixes and/or the nerf hammer.
People like McFluffin Gaming is why everything was nerfed to un fun in D4 when it was released in 1.0.
Yep, guys like me saying they over nerfed in S1 while still leaving up broken bugged things like Earthen Bulwark damage scaling with enemy level that uber homogenized builds are exactly what happened there. Good analysis.
Exactly he's toxic
Absolute brain dead comment
@@McFluffinGaming People like you ruin these games.
EHG said every build over 4 digits in coruption is unintended and is a mistake on their part, either a bug or overtuned, so stop throwing tantrums for a build that you copy pasted.
Did you copy it because it looked fun? Then why would fixing the bug even matter? Mechanics remain the same
Did you do it to feel good about yourself? Brag to your friends for getting high coruption copying a build that everybody knows it gets high coruption? :)))))
Play offline and activate god mode then... what a joke :)))))
with your Logic why hasn't EHG capped Corruption? People wanna play the best builds and dont hover at 200 corruption max.
Wdym with my logic? EHG themselves said 4 digits as a proxy of powerlevel. Other ways of measuring powerlevel could be beating T4 Julra in under X seconds or getting X waves in Arena. So the problems is the Powerelevel Disparity and not the way you measure it.
Why is the powerlevel disparity a problem? Because It DISCOURAGES trying other builds and creating entirely new ones!
Why would someone try forgeguard, sorcerer, shaman when they don't have the potential of getting 1k corruption with PERFECT gear, while this bugged mess gets to 1k with minimum investment.@@MrKoutavis
WAAAA my super op build will now only be op!
Thanks for imposing your idea of what is fun onto others
I told you there are bugs in the skill. I did not make these bugs. You are strange.
@McFluffin I don't think this is a bug because it says "an arrow" which is singular and means it applies that amount per arrow
correct this video claims to be tested and proofed but all i see is bug=views
Yes, 'an arrow', singular, and the damage values make sense only for a single instance. I've played this game long enough to know if that were meant to be multiple arrows it would've been immediately picked up on as busted.
The wording is bad on this one. But considering how other skills and nodes work in this game, it's pretty obvious it was meant to be a single instance
Try playing without Automated Bombardment (single target) for explosive trap and see the difference I think you aren't fully correct in what the issue is :D
I didn't say the build wasn't still powerful without all of the other features it has (in fact I said it was still S tier). These are just the bugs that put it over the top into omega ST destroyer territory.
@@McFluffinGaming I am saying you should try it I think the bug is that there are too many traps retriggering in such a short period of time and if they scaled down the traps being retriggered it would fix it.
I didn't notice anything off with the amount of traps that were triggering. It seemed like when I threw out five, I got five
@@McFluffinGaming Its not effecting how many that are coming out. Its effecting when one explodes the chance for fresh trap to also be dropped at the target
@@Dragonhiro89 the chance should be 100%, so the extra five i get tracks
I'm currently working on this build and when the bugfix I'll be leaving.
kthxbye
its not bug, because the dagger change bow & arrow into 2 dagger. so all passive should count as melee dagger passive.
I don't see anything here that relates to anything I said on the video.
Leave my build alone. I have been playing Jelkhors since before the streamers started making it META. It feels fun and good to play. Leave it alone.
I'm not doing anything to your build, but unfortunately for you its very bugged. If you play something that is dealing drastically more damage than the norm, there's a good chance it's at least partially due to a bug.
Deal with it mate. Shouldn't be exploiting bugs regardless of whether or not they are META. Should probably change your perception of what constitutes "fun" or you'll be in for a lot more disappointment in the future...
Or don't.. I mean do whatever you want, it's your funeral..
It's an op build, but it's also not. The #1 marksman in arena is only wave 500. This build is a fun mono-farming build, but it isn't breaking the game for anyone.
Cool, then fixing the bugs that don't kill the build is even less of an issue. Agreed!
If the bug is fixed, not only one but numerous users of this game will leave because of you. I feel very bad. 500 hours of gameplay
It has been in vain.
Yeah how dare I make a bug in the build you play. And I'm sure if I hadn't pointed it out nobody would ever know. Totally my bad bro.
You along with any others that decide to leave merely for this shallow reason is nothing but a net positive for the last epoch community.
Builds like this make the game exciting. I don’t want to drive the speed limit when there isn’t one, I want to go fast. Every ARPG has its crazy builds. This is what YOU want, no one else who’s played this build wants what you call “balance”. Having everything fall in line is the same as Baskin Robbin’s having 32 flavors, but they’re all Vanilla. smh. Unsubbed.
LUL. I don't recall asking for any of what you said. I just showed a bug in a build. The community took a survey and said they wanted bugs fixed.
@@McFluffinGaming What? Did you even watch your own video?
@@zombie93I've been playing the build, and I want it to be fixed. I brought up the elemental debuff to Raxx on his stream several days ago because I thought it was bugged. I don't like relying on literally broken builds.
@@voidstar.studioI'm not even playing the build. My point is let the players have their fun. I'd rather they fix the broken interactions; things that straight up don't work vs. taking some fun away.
@@zombie93 you said, quote - "no on else who's played this build wants what you call balance." - end quote.
well, you're wrong. that's not an accurate statement.
Why is this cranky old guy trying to ruin games for people? Seems kinda sad...
Yes, fixing broken OP things that trivialize the game and make other builds feel bad in comparison so that the game can maintain the build diversity that this game flourishes on is totally trying to ruin the game for people. I'm sorry the build you play will only be S tier after it works as intended and you'll actually have to learn how to do boss mechanics.
I'm sorry that you're in such a rough spot in life that you feel the need to ruin peoples fun. You must be that guy at partys who says "HEY...SOMEONE SPIKED THE PUNCH BOWL!" @@McFluffinGaming
So you're the kind of guy that thinks spiking the non alcoholic punch bowl and fooling people to drink alcohol they didn't agree to is a good thing? I see.
Most normal gamers who love LE like to farm gear and be rewarded. Most people well barely hit corruption 200 with this build. To actually try to nerf it is just not a good look for you. No matter how you try to spin this you should have never posted it.
Thank God there was a poll they did.. otherwise I'd think you vocal minority who don't want balance or even bug fixes were the majority. Feels like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of these takes.
Who wants to play a perfectly balanced game where all builds are exactly equal? Seems a weird thing to want in an aRPG. We want to have fun and feel OP. Not be perfectly balanced. That's what season resets are for no?
Since when did fixing bugs in a build = exactly the same performance of other builds? Weird take.
@@McFluffinGaming oh, I never said anything about fixing or not fixing bugs. These are your words. Your closing words in your video.
I said we should have a perfectly balanced game where all things are exactly equal? Weird, I can't remember ever saying that.@@HoopstaYT
me hate being mentaly forced to play BROKEN meta builds...
Most of the stuff you think is bugged is not. copper arrow is bugged 100% i believe.
but thank you for ruining our fun!
If the only way you can have fun is by killing a boss before it has a chance to do a single mechanic, you're welcome! And my track record on bug reporting over the last 4 years is pretty solid :)
@@McFluffinGaming seems you're proud of your "achievement". i'm happy you feel fufilled, players don't want to struggle at 300c how the devs want them to. You're a grown adult and i hope you find something outside of bug patrolling to help you sleep at night
@@ActualCut git gud you scrub or don't play the game. If you can't cope without bugs that play the game for you, then you shouldn't play at all.. If you like the idea of one shotting bosses to completely bypass their mechanics, then why don't you just go do some file editing in offline mode? And then you'd probably end up getting banned anyway.. So maybe go find another game that meets your criteria of "fun"..
@@mr.a1819 haha loser i aint reading allat
@@mr.a1819 aint reading allat cope
You didn't prove anything. You couldn't find a way to make the build better. So you make assumptions that it's bugged. Smh. Content like this hurts the community.
Lmfao where is the proof that its bugged because this doesnt show anything 😂 and your doing is sitting assuming u know what your talking about when u have no idea
Feel free to watch the multiple VoDs with many hours of testing we did, which was clearly stated on the video.
@@McFluffinGaming your literality saying After I have tested it for 3 to 4 days nothing about what we have tested lol and "what I THINK is what's wrong" lmfao u dont even know so please stop saying u Do when u dont
@@XGodXSlayerX420Exactly! This guy is just spewing nonsense.. When you ask him for proof he just says "Trust me bro".. No wonder this dude has very low sub count considering the amount of video he has
Go test it yourself and see. - ele res node stacks, suckerpunch stacks (increasing arming time causes more stacking), then lightning tendrils are bugged in some way doing more dmg than what they should at their base dmg and dmg effect. All are relatively easy to test and prove. Also his uncertainty is with what the EXACT issue is, the fact remains they are bugged.
Please nerf everything that's fun. Look how well it's working out for D4.
This is a bug, not a call for a nerf. I play and test D4 as well. Fixing bugs has never been the problem.
This guy dont deserve any support / subs.. What else do you claim as bug?? Frost claw? Go nerf everything..
Sorry your favorite build has bugs in it. Totally my fault. My bad.
@@McFluffinGaming Yeah totally your fault.. No wonder you have a very low sub count.. You just have to be a dck to everyone.. You must be fun at parties..
That's why I'm playing the Fire version with dragonsong atm because i knew there must be a bug somewhere with the lightning nods .. I still do really good damage both ST and AOE even with just 15% explosion chance "still solving the mana issue" .