Remember, Bretonnian prayer doesn't require them to go second. It requires them to give the choice to their opponent. You can let Bretonnians go first when they pray if you're up against them.
Being charged in the flank or rear while already engaged in combat causes a panic test. (Rulebook p. 80) Cold ones cause fear, so are immune to fear. They are also stupid, which makes them immune to psychology *only* when they have failed their stupidity test (which only happened once this game). (Rulebook p. 80) A BSB can never take mundane weapons, so no lance for the Dark Elf BSB. (Every armies book says this in the margin with the BSB restrictions) A damsel gives magic resistance (1) to her unit, so you should have been taking the free dispel dice when spells are cast at the unit. (Army book p. 47) A damsel in the middle of a lance has no line of sight, and therefore can't cast a magic missile like the Crow's Feast. (Army book p. 41)
People give the Dark Elves in 6th a lot of shit (honestly, most of it is justified) though what a lot of people don't know is they got a rather substantial buff via FAQ. On their website they changed things like giving the Executioners heavy armour (they had light before for some stupid reason) with no points increase, decreasing Dark Elf Warriors points from 9 to 7 (rather substantial seeing as how they're WS4, BS4, I5 and come standard with spears and light armour, as well as the option of buying them Repeater Crossbows), giving the Black Guard the ability to always re-roll failed misses that we would see in later books, allowing you to take 2 Cold One Chariots for one special choice, increasing the Ld of Cold One Knights to 9 (meaning they don't need to be babysat anymore). The Cauldron of Blood gained a massive buff, first of all the range for its ability was buffed to 24" (so it could benefit nearly the entire army) and shooting was randomized between it and its guardians (the cauldron is invincible so any hits against it are ignored) which mean that the guardians effectively have a 3+ ward save followed by a 4+ ward save if they fail it against missile fire. Hydras also had the apprentice movement increased to 6 so that they no longer slow down the monster (pretty big when you're lining up a charge) and Word of Pain can now be cast into combat. There's some other minor changes there too (like Assassins being allowed to Scout, which can let them take out war machine crews in the first or second turn), however the buff does quite a bit to making them much better (in every edition you want to use this book in, though that's not really a surprise since it was worked on by both GW staff and people over at Druchii.net). They're still not going to hit that hard (barring Executioners, monsters and Cold Ones) however they are going to make up for it in volume, getting a lot of re-rolls, cheaper core in general and failing fewer Stupidity checks (one of their greatest weaknesses). If anyone wants to check out the FAQ, here's the archive link: web.archive.org/web/20061116191734/uk.games-workshop.com:80/news/errata/assets/wh/derevision.pdf
Problem is, all these changes did not too much to make the army works better. I am a dark elves player from the 5th edition, and from a competitive point (tournament mostly) all the change didn't help at all.
@@lich109 Maybe now? If you look back in the forum from early 2000, you will not find so many positive comments. Probably becayse at the time tournament and competitive play was still a thing. Now, you play 6h edition just for fun and no many people make very very high level and high tier list.
@@Hades13 The archived posts are from the Dark Elf forums that recommended these changes, and after the changes were implemented. On top of that the amount of raw games the Dark Elves were winning after this update doesn't support your assessment that they were still in a bad spot. By the way, early 2000 is before the update, you can see that both in the collected White Dwarf books and The archived link I have in my comment.
@@lich109 on tournament doesn't change too much. Always the same. Just these little change didn't improve the army as much as people talked. If the forum is the same who suggested these improvement... Are you sure they are not just comment about "we did a good job"? Everywhere I played (Europe) at the time dark elves was still a bad army, and it was always put in the worst tier. Tournament... Sometimes you saw one (me) or two. So for the meta at that time, the rules change were just "meh". Still improvement, but still so far away from something good. In the end, dark elves were bad and still bad. But they got some boost in non-competitive game. The boost to armour on the executioners for example: good in non-competitive place. In tournament you never used that unit! If you, around the third turn they were death because of shooting and magic phases
Great to see 6th edition again!! Two of my favorite armies today, appreciate you guys doing these. I don't think DE in 6th were as bad after they updated the rules. There was a rules update done in White Dwarf 286 since they were underpowered in that edition. You almost have to use it if you're going to have balanced games with them. That being said, Bretonnian Knights are always going to be tough to kill with repeater crossbows. As one of the other commenters mentioned below; if you had remembered the rule about fear and automatic breaking when outnumbered, this could have been very different. A couple other points: -When Bretonnia prays, the opponent doesn't automatically have to go first, they get to choose. (I'm not really sure that would have made a whole lot of difference) -Bretonnian Knights only get extra attacks from the sides of the lance when they charge. In subsequent rounds and when charged, it's just front ranks as normal. Thanks again for kicking it old school!
I know I'm late, but for everyone curious the rules update is also available on the Wayback Machine: web.archive.org/web/20061116191734/uk.games-workshop.com:80/news/errata/assets/wh/derevision.pdf I do agree absolutely on that, you need to use the update for the Dark Elves as otherwise they're quite weak. I honestly prefer this update the most out of the later editions since they're not as egregiously overpowered as their 7th edition incarnation or their 8th edition book (which I hate). Also for Bretonnian Cavalry the solution for dealing with them is the same as it is with most armies, you get a cheap unit to bait out the charge, have them flee when they are charged, then counter-charge them with your own units. Cast Word of Pain on them after the fact and you'll be watching Executioners rip into the knights. You also don't need to use an Executioner unit for that, Black Guard can do it as well, however so can spearmen since you can try to break the knights using static resolution (and a bit of help from you can also use a hero with the Blade of Ruin or an Assassin in it if you also want a few casualties or are up against the Banner of the Lady, since both can either kill regular knights or have a good shot at killing the Battle Standard Bearer). The only thing you have to worry about is panic, though if you're smart you'll either position them in a way that they won't be fled through, have your general nearby, or have more than 1 unit that can charge the knights.
Dudes, first of all: thanks for another older world wars batrep. Really appreciate it. :) Second: I really like u as a content producer luca but you're all doing a good job at MWG. :) Don't listen too the haters. Now to the game: It was a beautiful game just until 35:38. Dudes! Fear+outnumbered+win=autobreak!!! That giant unit would be dead! U could have fucking won luca! With 6th ed. Dark Elves. You could have won with s i x t h e d . D a r k E l v e s against Bretonnians! xD DE are so fucked up this ed. it might frustrate people to watch em die like lemmings. How about u get out your good old vampires for 6th? They are beautiful and exciting in this ed. With all them different clans and such. But u should never forget autobreak with them. Its the only thing zombies c a n do. :)
You can't cast Remains in Play spells again while they Remains on play, and most spells say that when you attempt another spell, the RIP spell stops. Rulebook , page 139.
You can cast the Remains in Play spell while it still Remains in Play, since the Sorceress can end the spell at any time (which you can argue she does before the magic phase even starts). You are correct in that they can't have 2 of them going at the same time.
Ah my beloved Bretonnia, its so good to see you teach Dark Elves a well deserved lesson. You know, the Bretonnia/Dark Elf rivalry really should be stronger in the lore, they are one of the last reliable sources of evil dragons to slay, to say nothing of their tendency to kidnap and enslave beautiful maidens. The Bretonnians should have a hard on for fighting these guys.
Bretonnia in the offensive? Never seen them back up before. The times I played against them, they always set up counter charges. But this was back with the Arrow/lance formation. And the guy I played had 60 Bowmen in that Arrow formation. And that was a nasty thing to endure.... oh the nightmares! !!!!
The arrow formation sucked, the formation they use here is a lot better since it does allow them to go on the offensive very well. The only downside is that they have a lot of issues in dealing with charge bait, since they can be presented with no good targets and if they don't charge they can be outmaneuvered easily. It's also difficult to have the unit go in any direction other than forward since it's easy for them to clog up the battlefield and get flank charged if they try to turn at all.
Hey Steve at 28:06 how were you hitting with 6 knights there? In the original 6th ed book, it didn't allow the knight in the middle in the second rank to strike. Is there an errata or FAQ for the 6th edition book for that? Cheers
Questing Knights were always a better choice in 6th, grail knights were just as easy to kill from shooting as knights errant only way more expensive. The questing knights would strike first from the charge and could stick around if they didn't break their opponent, stick your general in there to clear out your opponents front rank as you'll be striking last after the charge. I can send a 2,000 pt list which I used to run if you want, pretty successful.
Nicholas Dickinson Grail knights have 2 attacks each and always the blessing and can all challenge enemy character models. That is pretty amazing after all.
Steve said over a year ago tlin a sit snd talk that he wouldn't play 9th Age because if he liked it he'd want to cover it. But it's a niche within a niche. Also 9th is really chaotic at the moment so until it settles down for a final edition of the rules it's hard to get any momentum and a following going.
Dave Mullard at the new year they will be finally rules set.a week ago in my country there was a tournament with 80 active player's so this system is quite balanced and popular
Tomasz Rosloniak that's good to know. I enjoyed 9th age when I played it but to many changes too quickly drove me towards Kings of War. I'll definitely look up the new rules for 9th.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember, Bretonnian prayer doesn't require them to go second. It requires them to give the choice to their opponent. You can let Bretonnians go first when they pray if you're up against them.
man I wish they sold brettonia stuff again, I love brettonia
Take a look at Perry Miniatures and Fireforge Games. I know it's not the same, but those are very well priced and actually look good painted.
My personal favorite edition. Thank you for the free content sirs
This is from way back... Love it :) Remember the rules about fear and outnumbering in combat... also terror on the dragon :)
Being charged in the flank or rear while already engaged in combat causes a panic test. (Rulebook p. 80)
Cold ones cause fear, so are immune to fear. They are also stupid, which makes them immune to psychology *only* when they have failed their stupidity test (which only happened once this game). (Rulebook p. 80)
A BSB can never take mundane weapons, so no lance for the Dark Elf BSB. (Every armies book says this in the margin with the BSB restrictions)
A damsel gives magic resistance (1) to her unit, so you should have been taking the free dispel dice when spells are cast at the unit. (Army book p. 47)
A damsel in the middle of a lance has no line of sight, and therefore can't cast a magic missile like the Crow's Feast. (Army book p. 41)
People give the Dark Elves in 6th a lot of shit (honestly, most of it is justified) though what a lot of people don't know is they got a rather substantial buff via FAQ. On their website they changed things like giving the Executioners heavy armour (they had light before for some stupid reason) with no points increase, decreasing Dark Elf Warriors points from 9 to 7 (rather substantial seeing as how they're WS4, BS4, I5 and come standard with spears and light armour, as well as the option of buying them Repeater Crossbows), giving the Black Guard the ability to always re-roll failed misses that we would see in later books, allowing you to take 2 Cold One Chariots for one special choice, increasing the Ld of Cold One Knights to 9 (meaning they don't need to be babysat anymore). The Cauldron of Blood gained a massive buff, first of all the range for its ability was buffed to 24" (so it could benefit nearly the entire army) and shooting was randomized between it and its guardians (the cauldron is invincible so any hits against it are ignored) which mean that the guardians effectively have a 3+ ward save followed by a 4+ ward save if they fail it against missile fire. Hydras also had the apprentice movement increased to 6 so that they no longer slow down the monster (pretty big when you're lining up a charge) and Word of Pain can now be cast into combat.
There's some other minor changes there too (like Assassins being allowed to Scout, which can let them take out war machine crews in the first or second turn), however the buff does quite a bit to making them much better (in every edition you want to use this book in, though that's not really a surprise since it was worked on by both GW staff and people over at Druchii.net). They're still not going to hit that hard (barring Executioners, monsters and Cold Ones) however they are going to make up for it in volume, getting a lot of re-rolls, cheaper core in general and failing fewer Stupidity checks (one of their greatest weaknesses).
If anyone wants to check out the FAQ, here's the archive link: web.archive.org/web/20061116191734/uk.games-workshop.com:80/news/errata/assets/wh/derevision.pdf
Problem is, all these changes did not too much to make the army works better. I am a dark elves player from the 5th edition, and from a competitive point (tournament mostly) all the change didn't help at all.
@@Hades13 I can find quite a few archived forums and even GW recorded wins (notably the Albion Campaign) that disagree with this assessment.
@@lich109 Maybe now? If you look back in the forum from early 2000, you will not find so many positive comments. Probably becayse at the time tournament and competitive play was still a thing. Now, you play 6h edition just for fun and no many people make very very high level and high tier list.
@@Hades13 The archived posts are from the Dark Elf forums that recommended these changes, and after the changes were implemented. On top of that the amount of raw games the Dark Elves were winning after this update doesn't support your assessment that they were still in a bad spot.
By the way, early 2000 is before the update, you can see that both in the collected White Dwarf books and The archived link I have in my comment.
@@lich109 on tournament doesn't change too much. Always the same. Just these little change didn't improve the army as much as people talked. If the forum is the same who suggested these improvement... Are you sure they are not just comment about "we did a good job"?
Everywhere I played (Europe) at the time dark elves was still a bad army, and it was always put in the worst tier. Tournament... Sometimes you saw one (me) or two. So for the meta at that time, the rules change were just "meh". Still improvement, but still so far away from something good.
In the end, dark elves were bad and still bad. But they got some boost in non-competitive game. The boost to armour on the executioners for example: good in non-competitive place. In tournament you never used that unit! If you, around the third turn they were death because of shooting and magic phases
Great to see 6th edition again!!
Two of my favorite armies today, appreciate you guys doing these. I don't think DE in 6th were as bad after they updated the rules. There was a rules update done in White Dwarf 286 since they were underpowered in that edition. You almost have to use it if you're going to have balanced games with them. That being said, Bretonnian Knights are always going to be tough to kill with repeater crossbows.
As one of the other commenters mentioned below; if you had remembered the rule about fear and automatic breaking when outnumbered, this could have been very different.
A couple other points:
-When Bretonnia prays, the opponent doesn't automatically have to go first, they get to choose. (I'm not really sure that would have made a whole lot of difference)
-Bretonnian Knights only get extra attacks from the sides of the lance when they charge. In subsequent rounds and when charged, it's just front ranks as normal.
Thanks again for kicking it old school!
I know I'm late, but for everyone curious the rules update is also available on the Wayback Machine: web.archive.org/web/20061116191734/uk.games-workshop.com:80/news/errata/assets/wh/derevision.pdf
I do agree absolutely on that, you need to use the update for the Dark Elves as otherwise they're quite weak. I honestly prefer this update the most out of the later editions since they're not as egregiously overpowered as their 7th edition incarnation or their 8th edition book (which I hate).
Also for Bretonnian Cavalry the solution for dealing with them is the same as it is with most armies, you get a cheap unit to bait out the charge, have them flee when they are charged, then counter-charge them with your own units. Cast Word of Pain on them after the fact and you'll be watching Executioners rip into the knights. You also don't need to use an Executioner unit for that, Black Guard can do it as well, however so can spearmen since you can try to break the knights using static resolution (and a bit of help from you can also use a hero with the Blade of Ruin or an Assassin in it if you also want a few casualties or are up against the Banner of the Lady, since both can either kill regular knights or have a good shot at killing the Battle Standard Bearer). The only thing you have to worry about is panic, though if you're smart you'll either position them in a way that they won't be fled through, have your general nearby, or have more than 1 unit that can charge the knights.
My two favorite people playing my favorite game :) Great job Steve and Luca!
iminay your two favorite people???
Well my favorite people at MWG ;)
35:38 you outnumbered and won a combat with a fear causing unit. Auto break in this edition
The Old World lives!!!
Dudes, first of all: thanks for another older world wars batrep. Really appreciate it. :)
Second: I really like u as a content producer luca but you're all doing a good job at MWG. :)
Don't listen too the haters.
Now to the game:
It was a beautiful game just until 35:38. Dudes! Fear+outnumbered+win=autobreak!!! That giant unit would be dead! U could have fucking won luca! With 6th ed. Dark Elves. You could have won with s i x t h e d . D a r k E l v e s against Bretonnians!
xD
DE are so fucked up this ed. it might frustrate people to watch em die like lemmings. How about u get out your good old vampires for 6th? They are beautiful and exciting in this ed. With all them different clans and such. But u should never forget autobreak with them. Its the only thing zombies c a n do. :)
You can't cast Remains in Play spells again while they Remains on play, and most spells say that when you attempt another spell, the RIP spell stops.
Rulebook , page 139.
You can cast the Remains in Play spell while it still Remains in Play, since the Sorceress can end the spell at any time (which you can argue she does before the magic phase even starts). You are correct in that they can't have 2 of them going at the same time.
35:38 you outnumbered with a fear causing unit. Auto break in this edition
Ah my beloved Bretonnia, its so good to see you teach Dark Elves a well deserved lesson. You know, the Bretonnia/Dark Elf rivalry really should be stronger in the lore, they are one of the last reliable sources of evil dragons to slay, to say nothing of their tendency to kidnap and enslave beautiful maidens. The Bretonnians should have a hard on for fighting these guys.
more bretonnian battles please!
Loving the 6th edition batreps. Please don't rush into 7th edition yet.
It would be very nice some battle report of Kings of war, besides that it's always good to see some warhammer battle report
Keep going with 6th. With the Ravening hordes lists it was probably Warhammer at its finest. Though I am soft on a bit of 4th/5th hero hammer.
Bretonnia in the offensive? Never seen them back up before.
The times I played against them, they always set up counter charges. But this was back with the Arrow/lance formation.
And the guy I played had 60 Bowmen in that Arrow formation. And that was a nasty thing to endure.... oh the nightmares! !!!!
The arrow formation sucked, the formation they use here is a lot better since it does allow them to go on the offensive very well. The only downside is that they have a lot of issues in dealing with charge bait, since they can be presented with no good targets and if they don't charge they can be outmaneuvered easily. It's also difficult to have the unit go in any direction other than forward since it's easy for them to clog up the battlefield and get flank charged if they try to turn at all.
Good game guys. Loved the battle rep.
Is there anywhere to buy 6th ed armies, and rule books?
Hey Steve at 28:06 how were you hitting with 6 knights there? In the original 6th ed book, it didn't allow the knight in the middle in the second rank to strike. Is there an errata or FAQ for the 6th edition book for that? Cheers
Great work guys love love lovvvveeee it
Did the Hydra not get a regeneration save in 6th?
Thanks for this Video
are cold ones not cold blooded in 6th ed? Or should those stupidity checks have been made on 3d6?
mike s In 6th you just used the rider's leadership of stupid mounts so 2D6. It would be 3D6 in a lizard man army though.
Great game!
6 Edition Rules!
Guys I will fly up from Tennessee to play 5th edition if anyone is interrested
joeshaver1104 dude why 5th edition
I'm in Clarksville, I'm down to try 5th.
Do a siege battle
great video's
YAAAY KNIGTHS
Would love to see you do some WhFB 3rd and go really Oldhammer :D Or some start doing Kings of War BR's
Fun stuff still
Questing Knights were always a better choice in 6th, grail knights were just as easy to kill from shooting as knights errant only way more expensive. The questing knights would strike first from the charge and could stick around if they didn't break their opponent, stick your general in there to clear out your opponents front rank as you'll be striking last after the charge. I can send a 2,000 pt list which I used to run if you want, pretty successful.
Nicholas Dickinson Grail knights have 2 attacks each and always the blessing and can all challenge enemy character models. That is pretty amazing after all.
use your damn tape measures
when i will see battale report from 9th age?
Steve said over a year ago tlin a sit snd talk that he wouldn't play 9th Age because if he liked it he'd want to cover it. But it's a niche within a niche.
Also 9th is really chaotic at the moment so until it settles down for a final edition of the rules it's hard to get any momentum and a following going.
Dave Mullard at the new year they will be finally rules set.a week ago in my country there was a tournament with 80 active player's so this system is quite balanced and popular
Tomasz Rosloniak that's good to know. I enjoyed 9th age when I played it but to many changes too quickly drove me towards Kings of War. I'll definitely look up the new rules for 9th.
Dave Mullard if you will bee in Poland text me....we will play some nice battale
Star wars armada please : P
I love old Fantasy, but I cannot watch this because of the sniffling. It is like nails on a chalkboard to me.
8th Edition please!
First
Sorry but I'm not really into this older world wars
Yuck, 6th was horrible.
It was the best edition
boring game go back to aos
Hahaha.
AoS sucks
i'm waiting for saturday to watch Old World Wars 8th Edition....and again 6th Edition -.- dislike