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Unfortunately, cars don’t work in cities. As Vancouver grows and becomes more dense, the only thing you’ll accomplish with vehicle lanes is more traffic. A famous Danish urban planner said “You get what you invite. When you invite cars, you get traffic.”. We’ve already seen from other cities that when you build proper, safe, and nice bicycle infrastructure, people use it, and it lessens the traffic from people who have to drive. Our cities shouldn’t be designed for cars, and we’re WAY too overbuilt for them as is. I think you’ll find as we become more walkable, bike-friendly, and transit friendly, you’ll see a lot less traffic on the roads because people naturally choose the alternative since it’s better for their health, their financials, their community, and the environment.
This type of thinking only applies to European countries. Here in the US, we love to drive our vehicles. That's why SUV is the best-selling vehicles years after years, in fact bigger the better. Our roads are full of single occupant vehicles, no one like to carpool to anywhere that's why carpool lanes have limited impact on traffic congestion in the US. Weather in the PNW is not conducive for cycling all year round, so having dedicated bike lanes are mainly for political reasons trying to appease to a small group of demographics.
@@WetPets-gl2ts actually, it's been shown (even in the US), that when proper bicycle and public transit infrastructure is built, people prefer that to driving. Building cafes, restaurants, and grocers in neighborhoods also gives people the freedom to walk there instead of drive. Of all of this improves safety, reduces damage to infrastructure, reduces noise and pollution, and increases economic strength of local economies and individuals since car ownership is so expensive. Also, it rains more in the Netherlands than it does in the PNW. Our mild weather is perfect for bicycling, and rain is no more a deterrent to bicycling than it is to walking: Put on a rain jacket! Your line of thinking is paradoxical, not backed by any facts, and is detrimental to our economy and society. Our economy, society, and communities would greatly benefit from moving away from cars in cities, to walkable neighborhoods, public transit use, and abundant bicycle infrastructure.
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash do you have any data to support your claim? There are hundreds/thousands of cities similar to Vancouver that underwent similar transitions, that are now primarily bike and transit focused. It’s completely realistic, practical, and possible in Vancouver. You know what isn’t practical though? Expecting everyone to drive as our population grows. If that happens, you’ll just keep sitting in more traffic, have less space for homes, and continue increasing homelessness, traffic/pedestrian deaths, and city budget deficits due to the extraordinarily high cost and subsidization of car-centric infrastructure.
Actually you invite people you get more traffic. Populations grow, and so do the number of cars. Even people who bike very rarely get rid of their cars. The largest part of the population has motorized vehicles, so that is what should get the most support. That doesn't mean I don't want bike lanes, but we should not turn our streets into a parking lot. Also, most (Not all) plans from small countries like Denmark don't tend to apply well in the US. I have watched traffic increase in Vancouver for well over 50 years, and this kind of change will not improve it.
I would ride my bike on both streets regularly if I felt safe. Even though there is a bike lane on McGillivray, it pins bikes right against speeding cars, and it's not uncommon to see drivers going 50+ miles an hour on this road.
There is one car on McGillivray going 40+ at 5am in the morning and not slowing down for any of the stop signs. Seen it several times. Prolly too early for police action.
The world’s most livable cities are the ones, you guessed it, with little or no cars. Heck, even in America, the most visited and vacationed places are ones with very little or no cars, like our amusement parks and universities. I completely and respectfully disagree with your opinions in the video, as would most people around the world. Cars are the least efficient way around a city and completely ruin the beauty of our cities and landscape by these huge, wide, lanes that are terrible for people and small businesses. I’d highly encourage you to travel around the world more and see how nice cities are that prioritize people over cars. Munich, Utrecht, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Vienna, etc. Could you imagine what Venice would be like with a 4 lane road through it? I’m looking forward to finally bicycling down McGillivray safely with my children once this project is done.
This type of thinking only applies to European countries. Here in the US, we love to drive our vehicles. That's why SUV is the best-selling vehicles years after years, in fact bigger the better. Our roads are full of single occupant vehicles, no one like to carpool to anywhere that's why carpool lanes have limited impact on traffic congestion in the US. Weather in the PNW is not conducive for cycling all year round, so having dedicated bike lanes are mainly for political reasons trying to appease to a small group of demographics.
honestly, just looking at people when I visit vancouver from PDX, folks could use a little more biking/walking. the difference in size between the average person in clark vs multnomah counties is staggering.
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash I think it is well documented that maggots/GOP types tend to be more....how to put this nicely...rotund, than the average left winger. As the proportion of patriots to maggots is much more skewed in Clark County, I think it is a safe bet to say that the obesity problem is worse on that side of the river. Even the Clark County Democrats are kind of dumb, with Perez screaming about the border (2300+ miles away)
Hey! Love your videos. Used them a lot when considering what neighborhood to move to in the Couve, with that said, I just wanted to put out there that cars are a very inefficient and unsafe way of traveling around a city. It might seem counterintuitive, but road diets (like McGillivray) that focus on other modes of transport are better at moving more people faster: ua-cam.com/video/CHZwOAIect4/v-deo.htmlsi=wemVz499NrrNSVBb&t=1017
Thanks for watching, glad its been helpful. I love my car and will continue to use it! I also love my bike, for recreation, and use it a lot in the warmer months, but there is no practical way I'll ever be using it to go to work, appointments, etc. Same with my MIL who has four kids (how does one transport a family on a bike 🤔), and my elderly grandparents who live nearby. I love the intent, but the practically is just missing in my opinion. Cheers!
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash Yeah super helpful! Your one video with a rapid fire review of each neighborhood in the city a while back was really valuable, so thanks for that. I'm not saying everyone should use bikes only, many great cities invest in dedicated lanes for buses and trams, and safe pleasant walking/rolling areas (where cars aren't whizzing by). Ideally, a family of any size would be able to walk/bus/tram within 15-minutes to any destination they need without having to own and maintain an expensive machine to do the majority of their daily tasks/errands. I know a lot of this isn't possible in the current state of the city, which is the reason we need to start now to undo the mistakes of the past city planners and the McGillivray project is a big step in the right direction.
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWashhow do you think people in other countries do all of those things without a car? There are cargo bikes (Urban Arrow, Tern, etc) that allow you to carry multiple children, even up to 5. In most other first world countries, most people are using bikes and transit to do all of the things you just listed. I highly encourage you to try and go to some appointments, get groceries, or visit your family nearby by bike, so you can see how easy it is to do everything by bike instead of driving. It’s good for your health, it’s good for the environment, it’s good for your community, and it doesn’t have any of the harmful side effects and doesn’t pose any of the dangers that driving does to everyone. Cheers!
Time to issue license for riding bikes as well. I have seen too many cyclists not respecting traffic laws. Replacing a traffic lane with a bike lane that would only get used 3 months out of a year is definitely not a good way to relieve traffic congestion. Luckily, I don't use both of those roads as I live on Prune Hill.
The change just got finalized last week on 34th. Its not terrible so far, but also, not great. I have not driven on the new road during rush hour or school pickup/drop off. I cannot fathom why people thought this was a good idea. I bike on this road (likely) more than most other people watching this video and I can tell you it was perfectly fine to bike on the sidewalk. The sidewalk has so few people walking on it and has plenty of grass spots as well.
no offence but truly like statistically making roads smaller and rerouting traffic outside of cities is better for all people involved including people travailing in there vehicles. Vancouver is a big city but even then the cutting of roads can be better for it to as metro lines can take passengers across town in a far more fuel and space effective manor. i get your intention but there are a lot of upsides to cutting roads. i think we aren't at the point with our public transport to being fully cutting roads but i personally see the two changes at the moment to be actually far more helpful in the long run
While I understand that is what research has shown, alternative modes of transportation simply are not popular or feasible on a large scale in Vancouver area and I know this from firsthand experience. Let me give you some very telling examples. Not a SINGLE person I know, in any income range or wealth class uses the bus regularly. Not a single person. I know a lot of people all over Clark County, I think that's very telling. Up a few blocks from the street I talked about in this video (34th st), there is a street called 20th street that has a similar road layout. One driving lane, and one car width bike lane (between 164th and 192nd ave). I drive on it 4-6 times a week and can count on one hand the number of people I've seen in that bike lane the last 6 years. The roads been like this for 15 or 20 years. Since they converted 34th st a few months ago, I have seen ONE biker in the bike lane. ONE! I drive on the street every day. Obviously that doesn't mean that's the only time people are on it, but its just telling of the usage. The reality is that this city was developed and spread out so far that cars make the most sense as the main mode of transportation, especially in a rainy and cold climate. We absolutely should have a diversity of transportation, but taking away a critical road is not smart at all. I really love seeing the bike shoulder lanes that get put into new development roads, but this is not the same.
If it is a major thoroughfare, I believe we do have to vote on the change. This affects a lot of people, so I think these kinds of plans do require a vote, even if it is more often.
For me, McGillvray is already lost because of its 25 MPH speed limit. The road was designed for 40 MPH and that's the speed that feels right to travel on it. If the speed limit there remains 25 then I am not going to use that road, even in its present configuration. The change in lane striping there doesn't concern me (although I understand the reasons that others are concerned, which include traffic blockages for emergency vehicles and also long traffic buildups during rush hour) Meanwhile, 34th is still 40 MPH and I fear greatly that the speed limit there will be reduced to 25. If that happens, then that road will become useless to me even though it is in a very convenient place for me to get in and out of my home in The Glen. I simply cannot stand to drive at that low speed on such a capacious roadway. (My view about McGillvray is not the popular one at Save Our Streets. When I hear people speak at their meetings, they always sound like they agree that the speed limit on McGillvray should be 25 MPH and that the only thing Vancouver ought to be doing is enforcing that limit better)
That is a very good point and I agree. I must say, I regularly find myself driving 35-45 on McGillvary because it just feels natural. Thanks for watching and taking time to comment
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash, I also agree. 25 mph is perfectly acceptable and necessary for school zones but on McGillvray it does seem strange and unnecessary to be only 25 mph. Even 35 mph would seem logical as I would understand with all the homes that have driveways that face McGilvery may not want a faster speed than that.
I figured the comments might get a little 🔥spicy🔥 on this one 🤣 but don't forget to play nice, and know that I am not anti-bike, I love biking. Let us know your thoughts on these changes and proposed changes down below
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Unfortunately, cars don’t work in cities. As Vancouver grows and becomes more dense, the only thing you’ll accomplish with vehicle lanes is more traffic.
A famous Danish urban planner said “You get what you invite. When you invite cars, you get traffic.”.
We’ve already seen from other cities that when you build proper, safe, and nice bicycle infrastructure, people use it, and it lessens the traffic from people who have to drive.
Our cities shouldn’t be designed for cars, and we’re WAY too overbuilt for them as is. I think you’ll find as we become more walkable, bike-friendly, and transit friendly, you’ll see a lot less traffic on the roads because people naturally choose the alternative since it’s better for their health, their financials, their community, and the environment.
This type of thinking only applies to European countries. Here in the US, we love to drive our vehicles. That's why SUV is the best-selling vehicles years after years, in fact bigger the better. Our roads are full of single occupant vehicles, no one like to carpool to anywhere that's why carpool lanes have limited impact on traffic congestion in the US. Weather in the PNW is not conducive for cycling all year round, so having dedicated bike lanes are mainly for political reasons trying to appease to a small group of demographics.
@@WetPets-gl2ts actually, it's been shown (even in the US), that when proper bicycle and public transit infrastructure is built, people prefer that to driving.
Building cafes, restaurants, and grocers in neighborhoods also gives people the freedom to walk there instead of drive.
Of all of this improves safety, reduces damage to infrastructure, reduces noise and pollution, and increases economic strength of local economies and individuals since car ownership is so expensive.
Also, it rains more in the Netherlands than it does in the PNW. Our mild weather is perfect for bicycling, and rain is no more a deterrent to bicycling than it is to walking: Put on a rain jacket!
Your line of thinking is paradoxical, not backed by any facts, and is detrimental to our economy and society. Our economy, society, and communities would greatly benefit from moving away from cars in cities, to walkable neighborhoods, public transit use, and abundant bicycle infrastructure.
Jason, I really love biking for fun and I usually bike at least 3-5 nights a week in the warmer months, but it will never be practical at scale here.
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash do you have any data to support your claim? There are hundreds/thousands of cities similar to Vancouver that underwent similar transitions, that are now primarily bike and transit focused. It’s completely realistic, practical, and possible in Vancouver.
You know what isn’t practical though? Expecting everyone to drive as our population grows. If that happens, you’ll just keep sitting in more traffic, have less space for homes, and continue increasing homelessness, traffic/pedestrian deaths, and city budget deficits due to the extraordinarily high cost and subsidization of car-centric infrastructure.
Actually you invite people you get more traffic. Populations grow, and so do the number of cars. Even people who bike very rarely get rid of their cars. The largest part of the population has motorized vehicles, so that is what should get the most support. That doesn't mean I don't want bike lanes, but we should not turn our streets into a parking lot. Also, most (Not all) plans from small countries like Denmark don't tend to apply well in the US. I have watched traffic increase in Vancouver for well over 50 years, and this kind of change will not improve it.
I would ride my bike on both streets regularly if I felt safe. Even though there is a bike lane on McGillivray, it pins bikes right against speeding cars, and it's not uncommon to see drivers going 50+ miles an hour on this road.
There is one car on McGillivray going 40+ at 5am in the morning and not slowing down for any of the stop signs. Seen it several times. Prolly too early for police action.
@@MJoy2023 That is really too bad to hear. Do you live on McGilllvary?
The world’s most livable cities are the ones, you guessed it, with little or no cars. Heck, even in America, the most visited and vacationed places are ones with very little or no cars, like our amusement parks and universities.
I completely and respectfully disagree with your opinions in the video, as would most people around the world. Cars are the least efficient way around a city and completely ruin the beauty of our cities and landscape by these huge, wide, lanes that are terrible for people and small businesses.
I’d highly encourage you to travel around the world more and see how nice cities are that prioritize people over cars. Munich, Utrecht, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Vienna, etc.
Could you imagine what Venice would be like with a 4 lane road through it?
I’m looking forward to finally bicycling down McGillivray safely with my children once this project is done.
This type of thinking only applies to European countries. Here in the US, we love to drive our vehicles. That's why SUV is the best-selling vehicles years after years, in fact bigger the better. Our roads are full of single occupant vehicles, no one like to carpool to anywhere that's why carpool lanes have limited impact on traffic congestion in the US. Weather in the PNW is not conducive for cycling all year round, so having dedicated bike lanes are mainly for political reasons trying to appease to a small group of demographics.
honestly, just looking at people when I visit vancouver from PDX, folks could use a little more biking/walking. the difference in size between the average person in clark vs multnomah counties is staggering.
You mean that you observe people are more overweight in Clark County vs Multnomah? I can't say I go over to Portland enough to notice a difference
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash I think it is well documented that maggots/GOP types tend to be more....how to put this nicely...rotund, than the average left winger.
As the proportion of patriots to maggots is much more skewed in Clark County, I think it is a safe bet to say that the obesity problem is worse on that side of the river.
Even the Clark County Democrats are kind of dumb, with Perez screaming about the border (2300+ miles away)
Hey! Love your videos. Used them a lot when considering what neighborhood to move to in the Couve, with that said, I just wanted to put out there that cars are a very inefficient and unsafe way of traveling around a city. It might seem counterintuitive, but road diets (like McGillivray) that focus on other modes of transport are better at moving more people faster: ua-cam.com/video/CHZwOAIect4/v-deo.htmlsi=wemVz499NrrNSVBb&t=1017
Thanks for watching, glad its been helpful. I love my car and will continue to use it! I also love my bike, for recreation, and use it a lot in the warmer months, but there is no practical way I'll ever be using it to go to work, appointments, etc. Same with my MIL who has four kids (how does one transport a family on a bike 🤔), and my elderly grandparents who live nearby. I love the intent, but the practically is just missing in my opinion. Cheers!
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash Yeah super helpful! Your one video with a rapid fire review of each neighborhood in the city a while back was really valuable, so thanks for that.
I'm not saying everyone should use bikes only, many great cities invest in dedicated lanes for buses and trams, and safe pleasant walking/rolling areas (where cars aren't whizzing by). Ideally, a family of any size would be able to walk/bus/tram within 15-minutes to any destination they need without having to own and maintain an expensive machine to do the majority of their daily tasks/errands.
I know a lot of this isn't possible in the current state of the city, which is the reason we need to start now to undo the mistakes of the past city planners and the McGillivray project is a big step in the right direction.
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWashhow do you think people in other countries do all of those things without a car? There are cargo bikes (Urban Arrow, Tern, etc) that allow you to carry multiple children, even up to 5. In most other first world countries, most people are using bikes and transit to do all of the things you just listed.
I highly encourage you to try and go to some appointments, get groceries, or visit your family nearby by bike, so you can see how easy it is to do everything by bike instead of driving. It’s good for your health, it’s good for the environment, it’s good for your community, and it doesn’t have any of the harmful side effects and doesn’t pose any of the dangers that driving does to everyone. Cheers!
Time to issue license for riding bikes as well. I have seen too many cyclists not respecting traffic laws. Replacing a traffic lane with a bike lane that would only get used 3 months out of a year is definitely not a good way to relieve traffic congestion. Luckily, I don't use both of those roads as I live on Prune Hill.
Interesting idea, thanks for sharing.
I lived here over 27. This is the stupidest most dangerous idea. I believe it will cause accidents and road rage.
The change just got finalized last week on 34th. Its not terrible so far, but also, not great. I have not driven on the new road during rush hour or school pickup/drop off. I cannot fathom why people thought this was a good idea.
I bike on this road (likely) more than most other people watching this video and I can tell you it was perfectly fine to bike on the sidewalk. The sidewalk has so few people walking on it and has plenty of grass spots as well.
Siempre es un placer poderte escuchar Hannah . Gracias !!
Thanks for watching
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash Thanks my friend Hannah
no offence but truly like statistically making roads smaller and rerouting traffic outside of cities is better for all people involved including people travailing in there vehicles. Vancouver is a big city but even then the cutting of roads can be better for it to as metro lines can take passengers across town in a far more fuel and space effective manor. i get your intention but there are a lot of upsides to cutting roads. i think we aren't at the point with our public transport to being fully cutting roads but i personally see the two changes at the moment to be actually far more helpful in the long run
While I understand that is what research has shown, alternative modes of transportation simply are not popular or feasible on a large scale in Vancouver area and I know this from firsthand experience. Let me give you some very telling examples. Not a SINGLE person I know, in any income range or wealth class uses the bus regularly. Not a single person. I know a lot of people all over Clark County, I think that's very telling.
Up a few blocks from the street I talked about in this video (34th st), there is a street called 20th street that has a similar road layout. One driving lane, and one car width bike lane (between 164th and 192nd ave). I drive on it 4-6 times a week and can count on one hand the number of people I've seen in that bike lane the last 6 years. The roads been like this for 15 or 20 years. Since they converted 34th st a few months ago, I have seen ONE biker in the bike lane. ONE! I drive on the street every day. Obviously that doesn't mean that's the only time people are on it, but its just telling of the usage.
The reality is that this city was developed and spread out so far that cars make the most sense as the main mode of transportation, especially in a rainy and cold climate. We absolutely should have a diversity of transportation, but taking away a critical road is not smart at all. I really love seeing the bike shoulder lanes that get put into new development roads, but this is not the same.
It is a tough balance. They probably got this one wrong. But you can't have the public vote on every road change, you would be voting weekly.
I totally agree. You are right, not everything can be voted on. This one is really just too bad, it will have a major impact.
If it is a major thoroughfare, I believe we do have to vote on the change. This affects a lot of people, so I think these kinds of plans do require a vote, even if it is more often.
For me, McGillvray is already lost because of its 25 MPH speed limit. The road was designed for 40 MPH and that's the speed that feels right to travel on it. If the speed limit there remains 25 then I am not going to use that road, even in its present configuration. The change in lane striping there doesn't concern me (although I understand the reasons that others are concerned, which include traffic blockages for emergency vehicles and also long traffic buildups during rush hour)
Meanwhile, 34th is still 40 MPH and I fear greatly that the speed limit there will be reduced to 25. If that happens, then that road will become useless to me even though it is in a very convenient place for me to get in and out of my home in The Glen. I simply cannot stand to drive at that low speed on such a capacious roadway.
(My view about McGillvray is not the popular one at Save Our Streets. When I hear people speak at their meetings, they always sound like they agree that the speed limit on McGillvray should be 25 MPH and that the only thing Vancouver ought to be doing is enforcing that limit better)
That is a very good point and I agree. I must say, I regularly find myself driving 35-45 on McGillvary because it just feels natural. Thanks for watching and taking time to comment
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash, I also agree. 25 mph is perfectly acceptable and necessary for school zones but on McGillvray it does seem strange and unnecessary to be only 25 mph. Even 35 mph would seem logical as I would understand with all the homes that have driveways that face McGilvery may not want a faster speed than that.
@@LivingInVancouverCamasWash maybe if you drove the posted speed limit, bikers and pedestrians would feel safe with the existing infrastructure
@@bumsondrums Friend, I'm just going the flow of traffic. If everyone is driving ~35, going way slower isnt usually a good idea 😆
dang not only is it wild that they are even doing this at all but its also wild that they didnt even let the people vote on it
It is unfortunate
I use 34th street almost every day and rarely ever seen any cyclist. I dread this change. I'd definitely sign the petition.
Anyone who lives in the area would agree with this, because it is simply a fact! Thanks for commenting and watching