Could Gwen Stacy Have Survived Her Fall?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- It's one of the most iconic Spider-Man moments, the death of Gwen Stacy, but should she have survived? Kyle has the thwip-lash analysis on this week's Because Science!
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• BIOMEMETICS OF SPIDER SILK: bit.ly/2SVUfUW
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Why does Thor crawl on the ceiling like Spider-Man?
Because science!
@@eris255 very start of the episode
Thor loses his hammer, max... so he became anything
Because there's Science to do on the other side.
It has to do with the after snap consequences lol
"It's amazing that in theory the numbers are in poor Peter Parker's favor." See, there's this thing called The Parker Luck.
And The Parker Luck always defies physics. Or any known logic. XD
Peter always has the worst luck lol
Poor Peter Parker all alone
@@forcecaptainoverlordsuprem2964 No Mother, No Father, No Uncle, All Alone
Mephisto working from the shadow
I think this gives one choice in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 some credibility. Instead of falling off of a bridge and having the chance to survive, she falls from the top of a clock tower and smacks her head on the ground. No amount of spider-silk stretchiness could have saved her in that scenario. So maybe the writers of that movie considered this when making that change!
Cameron Lightfoot, SM does catch her, but so late in the process that there wasn’t enough time to decelerate much. She even bounced back up (too much).
i think the writers wanted spider man to come out as the hero even if he wasn't able to save her
I actually loved that scene in the movie because the entire time your teased back and forth with are they actually going to kill her or not. They even make it look like they are going to go against the comics and actually have her live, then they snatch the rug out and give us an even more brutal end.
I still remember the theater starting to groan/cheer that he saved her to that loud thunk and the immediate silence of the audience.
But SM 3 (i know we don't talk about SM 3, no one should) her head is still snapped backwards and breaks her neck even as she was slowed down before stopping.
I thought she died in that movie from her spine snapping and I dont remember seeing her actually hit the ground. Guess I gotta comb UA-cam for answers now lol
I think the movie version of Gwen's death makes more sense.
It does -- kH
Because Science what
@@becausescience you should do a video on the movie version of Gwen's death. I think it would be interesting🤷♂️
It's already obvious that she would die. Because the whiplash wouldn't kill her, but the unnslowed down force of her head hitting the concrete would. Being dumb, Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man aimed for her torso, when he really should've aimed for her chest.
If spider man did a safety net under her instead, maybe she would survive?
The death of Gwen is like the death of Jack in Titanic: facts says they would've survived, but due to the plot, they had to die
They showed a reason jack couldnt survive in titanic... Only one of them could get on the door or it would tip
@@sixela6 Yes and no. Mythbusters proved they both could have gotten on the door, but you would have had to add the life preservers underneath to increase the buoyancy. The easy out is to simply say that neither Jack nor Rose understood those principals and therefore never knew they could both get on by simply doing that.
@@Kmmlc That, and uh... it was below freezing tempatures in the middle of the ocean. Rose's brain was probably doing everything it could simply concentrating on not going into shock.
@@Da1337Man "but muh logic"
@@sixela6 There was a ship full of debris, furniture, and safety equipment floating all around Jack. He could not have climbed on to what she was floating on, but there was ample stuff for him to float on. But, because movie says the good guy tragically dies, he dies. God, I hated that movie.
Andrew Garfield:Gwen just died 😫
Toby Maguire:Oh really hmm
Tom Holland:Who’s Gwen
Drax:Whys Gwen
Mantis: What's Gwen?
Me: You're a moron.
Me:cringe.
Trey He does in Spider-Man 3
Tobey fucked gwen
so using the same equations you could see how many strands would be required to stop a subway train whilst it trundled towards a dead end track?
Good question. I went ahead and did some math myself and the answer I came up with is: a lot (or "fucking hell, that's many!", depending on how exactly you round up your numbers). You're welcome.
That's a future episode that's on my list -- kH
@@becausescience look forward to that 1, as soon as I saw it in the cinema I started thinking about it. Trouble is every time I think I'm done I spot another variable I missed. I would suggest doing a simplified version like you do sometimes.
I'd be more concerned with when the web catches her that she'd then swing into the bridge itself. Because the web is holding her by the ankle she'd almost certainly hit the bridge head first... Which would have a decidedly non-pg-13 effect on her skull.
It's 12:06 am and I'm watching thor talk about spiderman.
You live in Singapore?Or somewhere on the same longitude
it is 12:19 pm est I just finished watching it too
We have a spiderman and an ant-man now?
And that makes you cool how?
@@grievingstereo8527 maybe it didnt, but it made you specially rude and anoying, so...congrats maybe?
Hey Kyle! You calculated Gwen as a single point of mass, but a falling body is far more complicated than that. You do mention it briefly further into the video, but the acceleration from rotation could actually increase the velocity of her brain case (think of a waterskier going faster than the boat when turning). This acceleration then deceleration would cause severe brain trauma. So how she's falling and where the web connects are vitally important.
I was thinking about this from the very beginning of the video. I don't even want to begin to try to calculate how far she could fall before there would be life-altering trauma to the brain.
ah, that meme at the end, absolute clssic
What is it referencing
60's (I think) Spider-man
you can find images by searching with "spiderman pointing at spiderman"
I'm pretty sure that's two Spider-Men pointing each other.
Eugene InLaw it’s rude to point
"Spider silk is special... And so is Gwen Stacy." Yes.. THANK YOU!
Rest in Peace Stan
Did he accept Jesus as his lord and savior? Because those who do will rest in peace
big foot it would have cost you nothing not to comment that
@@voltio231988 please respect a non Religious man death you should know that.
@@thatonedemonchild624 first of there's is no disrespect in my comment. Second of all is the truth, the only way he can rest in peace is if he accepted Jesus as his lord and savior.
@@voltio231988 whatever just don’t turn this comment section into a poop hole
"We know from our assumptions…"
What? That is an oxymoron…
If you assume your assumption is correct then you know
that girl “wait, that’s illegal”
I thought that an oxymoron only has 2 words (ie. original copy, pretty ugly)
@@JianCB2 pretty ugly is a bad example since pretty has more than one meaning. It can be used as a gradation such as pretty good or pretty bad.
@@Kmmlc Yeah, but my point stil stands.
This episode about Gwen Stacy is brought to you by FALLout 76? Get it?
UNINTENTIONALLY PERFECT -- kH
OML
hahahaha Smoooth brother! Smooth!
Nice, I Gwen it
@@becausescience What do you mean by kh? 'cause I usually use that to abbreviate Kingdom Hearts.
I've always wondered, how much "web fluid" can the small canisters in his web shooters really hold? They're small and he shoots a LOT of webbing before he runs out. Also, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.
0:13 Your hair is as anti-gravity as skirts in animes
You assume gravity works the same way in the void as it does on earth
@@KaNgUrUhBR I hope I didn't offend gravity of the void o_o
@@vincentxu8217 Well if the void is truly empty, where does gravity come from?
@@ToabyToastbrot ur mum
@@ToabyToastbrot If the void is truly empty how could Spider-Kyle move like he did?
So, if Gwen were *pushed* off the top of a bridge, there'd be some lateral velocity too, right? She wouldn't be falling straight down, strictly speaking. So regardless of whether or not there was enough give in the spider silk to safely arrest her fall, if Spider Man was standing on the top of the tower of the bridge, Gwen would be slowly moving laterally away from him at the velocity of the initial shove. Therefore, when the spider-line catches her, all of her lateral movement would translate into gravitational potential energy, and she'd swing back into the side of the bridge, upside down, and probably head first. Probably not healthy.
Also, don't most of those bridges taper as they get taller? They have a big central base, and then occasionally step in as you get higher up? If one were falling off the bridge, and impacted one of those steps, especially if falling head first, it'd do some damage!
No. Air resistance would slow any lateral velocity very quickly.
So... Just no.
Damn thats true
Still significantly better than a death plunge into a river, broken bones heal, maybe she still does but it's better than doing nothing.
@@christianlang348 They are actually right, there would be some lateral movement and Spiderman wouldn't be directly above her which would create a pendulum effect on her when the web-strand reached it's maximum length which could swing her into the bridge supports. Air resistance doesn't really come into play.
So ... Just no.
There would be a lot of air resistance cause by the act of covering a large distance quickly, vertically.
Any lateral movement would be dissipated very quickly after falling by the large amount of air on the way down. With no air, yes, they would move more, but factoring in air friction and aerodynamics, not so much.
So again, no.
Well there is a detail easy to miss that you miss in the panels. There are three panels of Gwen falling first of her upside down, second of her head upwards (her hair and hand are both visible facing up), and finally the one with the web on her leg of her facing down again. This might mean that she was spinning while in the air.Wouldn't this add a rotation? by pulling her leg upwards while her head is going downwards it increases the Gs that her neck and brain is suffering. I mean there is a reason why people try no to spin vertically while bungee jumping aside of a few broken ankles you risk to suffer a hypovolemic circulatory shock by all the blood rushing in a sec.
she would have to be tumbling at 31 rpm (assuming she is 6') to generate 1 g on her head.
and that would mean she was spinning at running speed, not likely.
so the tumbling wouldn't make much difference.
The sad part is Gwen Stacey is dead... but at least we know that of the different versions, the more realistic one was the one in which Gwen Stacey fell more than 42 meters.
Her head could have torqued back , depending on directionality of her rotation as opposed to the web's vector causing the skull to pull from the atlas vertabrae which in turn causes the medula oblongata to strike the base of the skull which causes it to swell which in turns stops autonamic nerve function leading to a coronary. Had spiderman given her CPR she would have survived. A strike to the base of the skull to cause thia if I remember correctly is about 3 psi.
@@scotthenderson4687 , @ruyman90 Come on now, you guys are just throwing out terms and conditions ; hypovolemic circulatory system shock? New to me. And Scott, you a biology major because medically it's normally called a herniated brain stem. Just curious...
Reckec I did not major in bio, but have taken a few medical related courses. I refer to the medulla oblongata which is a part of the brainstem that controls autonomic function of heart ,lungs, body temp regulation etc.. I also studied martial arts and as such reenforced my knowledge from A&P courses. And i used that knowledge to determine why she died instead of could she have survived. The injury I described is well documented in medical text. As results from auto crashes induced by heavy whiplash, as well as getting struck in the back of head.
I think the writers of The Amazing Spider Man 2 figured out that the math was just as you said Kyle and there for made it so Gwen's head hit the ground. But you know in comic books nothing has to make sense for it to be entertaining or tragic. Great work and love the vids.
Hi Kyle, i believe there are many additional factors to consider that would ultimately make the chances of gwen surviving much less likely.
first off we know spidermans's web slinging usually reach a wide variety of ranges to reach the different distances that he needs to traverse. this would mean spiderman would not only have to catch her with his web, but he also needs to stop shooting his web at the right moment so that the length of the web would stop extending at the right time to stop gwen's fall before she hit the ground.
So factoring the mental stress to catch her in the limited short time frame he has to work with and to not over extend his web after catching her, it could come to reason that spiderman may have undershot the required length of web to catch her, which would mean the web silk that he shot was already stretched close to its tensile limit when it caught her. This then reduces the amount of cushioning effect his web would have on reducing her fall speed.
We can also prove that spiderman's does shoot his webs with such force that they usually do hit the target close to the tensile limit of the web on a regular basis. *anytime he shoots at a high point while standing on the ground, the web shot would usually launches himself into the air to allow his trademark web swinging action across the city.
while i myself am not too sure on the calculations to figure out how much tensile strength is required from his webs to pull him up into the air with enough elastic force, but this does prove that spiderman's web threads do get launched and stretched prior to hitting his target on a regular basis, and if his catch immediately pulled back on gwen after catching her, that only amplifies the halting speed of her fall rather than safely slowing it with a cushioning effect.
TL:DR spiderman shoots his webs pre-stretched so the web pulls back on the fall rather than slowing it safely.
Elyrx understandable
Elryx how would one shoot something pre-stretched if there's almost no force being applied to it? Also, staying rigid would make a lot of things in the movies VERY GRUESOME
chingcongwong the third I worded the tldr badly, my assumption is that the Web stretches as it flies through the air and therefore is more inclined to pull backwards from the elasticity upon hitting the target, rather than catching Gwen with the precise amount web required so that it is has extra room to stretch and cushion her fall.
Edit: there's definitely force applied to the Web shot out, otherwise it would simply spill? below spider man like tap water when he shoots the web
So what you're saying is that Spider-Man would carefully have to solve "how do i shot web" in order to save her? Also even if Spider-Man perfectly calculated the length of web required for the calculation of the intercept path that it would have to take for its deployment velocity, a pencil-thick material of almost 42m moving quickly enough to intercept a freefalling Gwen would have its own energy to have to account for when it comes to the stretching that occurs after its mass joins with Gwen's, contributing to the stretching parameters it would be experiencing once the line hits its limit. What you're saying about Spider-Man's normal transportation webs assumes, after all, that the webs themselves deploy with enough velocity to stretch itself such that he would be snagging his anchorpoints with an elastic burden already applied to the line such that he can propel himself with them. THAT BEING SAID, however, how do we know that it's a consistent web that he's shooting? He's demonstrated already that he has several web-slinging techniques at his disposal, there's nothing that really dictates that this pre-stretch technique is what's being deployed here. And going beyond 6G isn't even a death sentence either, people experience instantaneous forces of hundreds of Gs in car crashes and survive, so there's room for play as well. It might very well be Gwen survives with recoverable injuries related to her deceleration, the margins are wide enough.
@@stuchly1 Hey joke's on you, what I just said was literally verified in the Live followup show XD The word you've forgotten to take into account is "instantaneous" forces, I'm not talking about dropping a couple tons of solid lead because that would crush you dead for a solid tenth of a second or so, which is a lot of time to take those forces on your body and a lot of total energy transferred that would have plenty of time to apply breaking stress on all sort of body parts. Do a little google, it's actually a really fascinating subject.
What if the Green Goblin already killed her before and just threw her body? That would be a great villanous way of getting Spiderman to blame it on himself.
I would do that. wait. I'm not the Green Goblin. I'm just insane. About your show.
Edit: If he would have killed her BY swooping her of the bridge with the glider, that would pretty much work and look the same , she doesn't even scream.
Because your theory is not cannon
Because in the comic, she was able to call out to Peter before being thrown.
Dillon Chaddick Fake News!
@@dillonchaddick695 With the Goblin's abilities he could have easily killed her after she cries out and split seconds before the toss.
Part of what made that comic great is the Peter could never truly know if it was he or Osborne that caused her death.
@@chasenicotre8853 It isn't NOT cannon as well.
Keep in mind that Spidey's webs weren't like actual webbing. They had settings based on his pressure on the button. He could have easily made it more rigid or other without realizing it.
Great video, Kyle. My wife and I love your show and I especially love your Spider-Man centric ones. Couple of things though; I know you based your calculations off of real spider silk, but Peter is constantly updating, changing, and making new variations on his basic webbing formula. It’s possible he had something with less elasticity at the time. Also I know it’s hard to tell because it’s from a comic book page, but do your calculations take into account the possibility that in a panic maybe Peter pulled up on the webbing as it caught Gwen? He does have superhuman strength and it’s been documented time and again that he holds back. So in a panic, maybe he pulled up on the web just a little too hard, reducing the cushion the web would have given Gwen during her fall. This is the love of his life, so him being a little overzealous would be plausible.
NobiZero exactly my thoughts
So much math! lol. Bad batch of spider silk, made by spider man.
Courtney Dalton that too. Peter is human. He makes mistakes.
Often.
Finally another theoretical situation that does not make use of some other Scientific principle
Hey Kyle, cool episode. Gwen was the best and I would have loved for the scientific outcome to have been canon.
Two things that might explain why she does die are
1 Like you said, she may have fallen at an angle. In the comics you showed, she seemed to be falling horizontally. So if spiderman caught her by her legs, her body would have started rotating, which could (mind the word 'could'; I'm not sure) have caused a whip-like effect that would snap her neck, literally cracking it like a whip.
2. If spiderman caught her below 28% of the height of the bridge (so the stretch length remaining would be less than 40%) She could have simply hit the floor below. Then the spider silk would have helped her stay perfectly vertical, so that her head would be the first thing to hit the floor.
thing is, spider-man's web properties and formula evolved with his experiences. It's not real spider silk, but an analogue. The death of Gwen stablished that his early webs were calibrated on strenght and elasticity more with spider-man and his villains in mind than regular people, and spidey is at least a couple orders of magnitude stronger and more resilient than gwen. And he knew this. But when Gwen was falling erred in panic and shot a regular webline instead of going for safer options. That's the core of his Gwen guilt, he got clouded in emotions in a life or death situation and he fucked up tragically. Since then most of the times he tries to push away allies and friends that could help him in his fights, because he doesn't want to put them and himself in a compromised situation again.
Is this canon? Because that would be very sciencey -- kH
@@becausescience It is, but a little subtle (sprinkled here and there in the 1000ish issues ever since). Since then, everytime he has come across a similar scenario (a loved one falling off some tall structure) it's common to portray him getting a little ptsd episode in his head and as a result applying safer methods to stop their fall (jumping after them and shooting an appropiate line using his own body as extra buffer, web air cushions, extra elastic web beds, shooting fine elastic lines to several points in the falling body to spread the forces better, etc.
Additionally what the comic doesn't calculate for is the potential dissipation of Gwen's kinetic energy if the web was fired at an angle. This would give an additional decrease to her velocity as she swings in an arc reducing the need for a strong flex to web.
Why is your hair not obeying the laws of gravity, let me guess: Argan Oil?
He has video game hair.
Because Argan Oil is a spin-off series -- kH
The voids gravity is situational.
Thought you would say "Because Science"
His hair is added in post
the problem is that whenever the back of the head hits any object with enough force that blood comes out the nose(like what happened to lovely gwen) to much internal damage, the person is gone “unless an ER is within minutes to remove the back of the skull for swelling” then it is still iffy... emma did such an amazing job of making gwen perfect.. it is the ONLY death scene in any movie that made tears go down my cheek.. i still have a hard time watching it
You are not lying. Just saw that particular Spiderman movie for the first time a few days ago, and it affected me emotionally more than I expected. They had a great chemistry and the movie did a really good job of making you care.
In the beginning you mentioned whip lash. This usually causes injury in apegdages such as a neck, by first accelerating the appendage (in this case a head attached to a neck) parallel to the velocity vector, followed very quickly by the neck accelerating in an arc perpendicular to the velocity vector, thus the neck quickly dislodged and causes "the injury." She might die by being swung in a weird way even if she fell a smaller distance.
Edit: Kyle mentioned this case at the end of the video. Opened my damn mouth too early.
happens to me all the time, I don't want to lose a thought while I'm watching a vid so I pause and type a comment.
Hahaha A LOT OF PEOPLE NOT WATCHING THE WHOLE VIDEO IN THESE COMMENTS -- kH
You can type it and wait for the video to end before posting it. This way if you think of any further comments you can post them within the same comment without the need to edit it.
Unless you're on a phone, in which you still can cut the entire comment and paste it again after watching the video but it's too much of a damn drag and I understand you in that case.
Hey Kyle awesome episode. I think it’s ironic that you proved the stretch of the web would have saved her during the fall in the comics but the stretch of the web was a factor in what killed her in the Amazing Spider-Man 2 movie. Thanks for another great episode, keep on keeping on.
In comic Captain Stacy died when Spider-man fight Doctor Octopus and in movie it was when he was fight The Lizard, also Norman Osborn Green Goblin killed her in comics and in movie it was Harry Osborn.
In the movie, her head hits the floor because he was a second too late
Negative. In ASM2 she suffers whiplash due to a sudden stop from a tense web. She never hits the ground.
10:36 Hey, I understood that reference!
I didnt. There's a reference? Captain?
Its a spiderman meme where two spidermans are pointing at each other
A full analysis of the death of Gwen Stacy and the saddest part.... The fallout 76 plug in the beginning.
Two major factors could have an impact here, one being a hypothetical, the other a canon fact.
One canon fact about the original Peter Parker, he made his own webbing and shooter, creating the fluid that would react to the air and harden into his iconic webbing as he shot it out. So its plausible that his mixture has more rigidity than standard spider silk. Another point in favor of this possibility is the way his web seems to maintain length as he swings, rather than show signs of stretching during the arc of his swing due to momentum. Feats mirrored in newer media, showing the lack of elasticity, though there are exceptions.
-Anything involving a train comes to mind.
Though there are some free fall moments too, but those are a mixed bag. Some are sudden stops, others are slowed descents.
But it could point to the fact that her falling did not carry enough energy to counter the rigidity of his webbing, given how much thicker it is compared to spider silk, and he made it with his weight and velocity during a swing in mind initially.
He has also changed the composition of his webbing for various situations, so its consistency varied quite frequently, and may not have been suitable for that situation.
For the hypothetical- I have heard of a medical condition/birth defect that could play a part in this to deadly effect. Weakened vertebrae of the neck and spine that left the individual more susceptible to trauma due to sudden jerks and concussions, or blunt impact to the back of the skull. Which could result in spinal damage that would leave one partially, or completely numb below the neck, followed soon by death. Such a person would be at a high risk of injury and likely be warned off bungie jumping, high diving, kidnapping by hobgoblins, and roller coasters.
Spiderman's silk couldn't stretch that much because if it did, Peter would face plant into the ground any time he swung from a low building
Spider-Kyle!
Spider-Kyle!
Does whatever a Spider-Kyle does!
Can he swing from a web?
No he can't, He's a man.
Lockout!
He is the Spider-Kyle!
(But he can do some science!)
Love the show thank you for all of that knowledge over the years.
Technically Spider-Man can’t swing from a web either…
He would swing from silk strands.
@@NinjaBearFilms That's how the song goes...
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
A classic in the making
Kyle, you look like you could be Chris Hemsworth AKA Thor's son lol...just wow it's chilling how much you look like him!!!
Can you talk about how slip space works from halo
That's a vid for 2550 AD!
Another great example would be Andromeda
The one thing I really liked about the Amazing Spider-Man 2 is that they had Gwen hit her head on the ground and that's why she died - because Spider-Man just barely couldn't save her.
EVEN IF Gwen's deceleration is within "survivable" means doesn't mean she would just not die. even outside of "rotational forces" from her neck not being straight, she would still need immediate medical attention. the kind of medical attention that would require several surgeries. IF she did get immediate medical attention and didn't die, she would most likely be permanently crippled. the emotional trauma mixed with constant pain management and hospital bill stresses (not to mention possible development of permanent mental illnesses caused from the physical trauma) would be major receptors to create SI, and 45yrs ago none of this would be treated with the reverence it has today, so most likely she would take her own life.
that's the worst of the best case scenario....but realistically, between where she fell and the events surrounding her death, she wouldn't receive immediate medical attention and die anyway. not from the fall or the way it's defined in the book.
Kyle's math/science only prove it's SURVIVABLE....but you might as well say "chugging NY hot dog cart water is survivable"....if the water itself doesn't kill you, the hot dog cart owner will.
Hi Kyle! I Love the show! And I love the hair! 🙂
James Kakalios in The Physics of Superheroes points out an even bigger basic misunderstanding flaw.
Where Spider-Man receives a harsh physics lesson, and the Green Goblin’s scientific “genius” is called into question.
At the last possible instant, Spider-Man manages to catch Gwen in his webbing, narrowly preventing her from plummeting into the river below. And yet, upon reeling her back up to the top of the bridge, Spider-Man is shocked to discover that Gwen is in fact dead, despite his last-second catch.
“She was dead before your webbing reached her!” the Goblin taunts. “A fall from that height would kill anyone-before they struck the ground!” Apparently the Green Goblin, creator of such advanced technology as the Goblin-Glider and Pumpkin Bombs, suffers from a basic misunderstanding of the principle of conservation of momentum.
Of course, if it were true that it was “the fall” that killed poor Gwen, then the implication for the fate of all skydivers and paratroopers would suggest a massive conspiracy of silence on the part of the aviation industry.
EDIT: Kyle mentioned this at the very end of the episode...
Well, still first like and comment. :)
How?
Because Science! :)
BE PREPARED FOR FOOTNOTES WHERE THIS ABSOLUTE LEGEND WILL GAIN THE TITLE OF: NERDIEST GUY!!!(or whatever ya want to call it)
Christian, Sebastiano Baudo Kyle mentioned that at the very end of the vid... and said it wasn’t possible
Yup...still tried. :)
Hey, Kyle. Love the show!
Quick question: do you actually calculate all your equations yourself or are they (fully, mainly or partly) outsourced to other people, like a behind-the-acenes team?
Its just sum math , pretty sure he does this by himself
Hi, Kyle. I have been a long time fan of the show ever since your video on Quicksilver's Walkman. Your videos have allowed me to have a much better understanding of complex scientific concepts, especially as I have been working on my astrophysics degree.
Now, I have a question regarding a What If? comic Marvel released recently. In "What If Peter Parker Became the Punisher?," the same incidents of "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" occur except Gwen survives. What happens differently is that Peter catches Gwen with a web line and swings her into a lift, where she lands in a web net. When Peter goes to check on her, she is alive and is alright after a few days in the hospital. My question is this: would Gwen still survive her fall in this situation? Would the web net supply enough time for her to be slowed down, or would the added torque from Peter's swing or some other force be enough that she would still die?
Thank you for all you've done, and I look forward to more content in the future.
Imagine having your video sponsored by Fallout 76
Lol "largest and most DYNAMIC world in the Fallout universe" - Kyle Hill
Hey Kyle
Great episode, as always.
Question, we covered the whether the web snagging Gwen would have killed her. But what about Gwen's position in the air? She was head pointed down like a dive, what if she was falling chest first like a skydiver slowing their fall? Or if she was falling back first facing up at the top of the bridge? Would the pendulum like snap of her swinging have done the damage necessary to kill her?
Take Care and Be Well
I have heard many times the shock of the fall will kill you, before you hit the ground. The explanation I have found is that the shock of falling from a great height and realizing you have no way to stop yourself induces panic causing a heart attack.
Spiderman body would also have some give, being pulled by Gwen's bodyweight. He is strong enough to lift tons but he doesn't have an incredible weight (although his surface adherence might somewhat negate my assumption )
Glad I came through the comments. I was thinking about this as well. I think it would be pretty hard, but not impossible to math out. We need his weight, how well he adheres to the surface, his strength, and his body posture. (I'm not a smart boy) But I think all of those factors considered, there would still be more leeway than just how much the spider silk can stretch.
@@reicalg3 I think his adherence is pretty OP.
Not sure but i kind of remember him lifting heavy stuff from a wall, which is weird now that i think about it.
He is stuck on the direct surface, but it can't be deep (Like the hairs coming from his fingers in the movies), so wouldn't the part he is walking on rip off the wall if he is lifting heavy stuff?
Not like he is nailed 3 inches into the wall...
Aska Lon Spider-Man’s adhesion is ridiculous. I recommend this video if you want an idea of how powerful it is: ua-cam.com/video/PAh1SSgp5wo/v-deo.html
@@jk844100 Yeah i know, i just mean that the surface below his soles would rip/break, like mud would stuck to the bottom of your shoes...
Aska Lon If Spider-Man was on the side of the pillar the maybe the bricks under his feet could come loose (although I doubt it) but if you look at the comic panel he’s standing on top of the pillar so that’s not a problem.
Am sure its been mentioned here somewhere that Uatu the Watcher confirmed (through one of Kyle's alternate universes) that Gwen could have been saved by Peter jumping to catch her in his arms rather than using the web line, wondering if that knowledge would give him peace or torment him further. So also canon that she died from the web, just as normally presumed, as always tho another fun and educational vid!
I would have a *neck* of a time surviving that *Snap*
Ew.
Snap is the 4rth differential of position to dime. Acceleration is the second. Jerk is the third. Just put jerk in your comment and youll have a double joke
That is uniquely terrible. Have a like.
@10:56 lol thats exactly what Green Goblin says. He says the shock of falling off killed her and that "she was dead before she hit the ground" if Spidey hadn't caught her. Also it's implied that her neck snapped.
Hey Kyle, how powerful are the arm pistons on Big O?
I wonder the same thing
As a skydiver, I have talked with someone who survived a fall at terminal velocity on to grass (though with major injuries) . Spiderman may have been better off just letting Stacy fall than stopping her.
Hey Kyle (and by extension, the keepers of the void), what do you think about the idea of using webshooter-like technology as a tool for use in space? Like some sort of sticky, spidersilk rope like grapple to move around in weighless situations... It could aid in mobility in larger spaces and could potentially save lives during spacewalks. The web wouldn't need to be crazy strong to just pull around the mass of a human and their gear, nor would it need large amounts of propulsion since it doesn't have to fight against gravity or air resistance. It could be built into a space suit and the user could just aim and shoot at some chosen anchor point to pull or winch themselves in that direction. I sure there's a lot that would need to be worked out but I think the idea would be a lot easier to implement in those cases. Since it's a single string it'll be easy clean up and there's no needd to worry about pesky nanoparticles. This is mostly me just thinking about a few episodes I was rewatching and felt like combining some of the ideas in them. Seems a lot easier to accomplish for space than for terrestrial purposes. Who knows, maybe this comment can spark someone's imagination and we can find out of it's actually possible. Anyways love the show! I really like learning in such an entertaining way.
Pretty sure astronauts already use pretty lightweight ropes to tether themselves to the spacecraft on EVA missions. Also I have a feeling magnetic or bayonet connectors would be cheaper and more reliable than "sticky" rope. But I'm certainly not an expert.
Pyrrha Nikos not really talking about tethering. What I'm talking about is something like a tool for large area maneuverability. A tether (at least in my head) is something that's always connected, whereas this would be able to connect and disconnect. You're right, some sort of magnetic grapple would work too but not everything is magnetic so it would be more limited. Plus it would be safer to collide with the silk rather than a rope.
See, talking about the strength of Spider-Silk now you've got me thinking... the scene where Spiderman holds a BOAT together (or stops a train, any of these feets), just how much Spider-Web would he need to use, how does all that force transfer onto his arms/body? Would the webbing fail?... Man, really curious now.
"It's not the fall that kills you, but the sudden stop." - MacGyver
There are three things you may have missed about Spider-man's web catching Gwen Stacy; first, the fluid that Peter Parker created was "similar" to that of spider silk, but even the creators have admitted that it's nowhere near as elastic, due partially to the fact that Peter has had to modify the formula to increase the tensile strength after going up against stronger and stronger opponents (Lizard, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, etc). Second, his webbing wasn't a line at the time. He sent it out in a spray, possibly intending for it to become a net around Gwen, but it caught onto her ankle, which means that each strand was acting independently on her body. Third, just from the way the body was angled, her head was already back, which added undue stress on the C2 and C1 Cervical vertebrae. Anyone who's been to Massage Therapy class has seen a poster that warns against placing the back of the head into the face rest of the massage table due partially to the fact that if the cushion were to fall, severe damage, and even death may occur, and that's from a laying position... not falling.
Yes, if Peter had used spider silk, he would have been able to save Gwen Stacy, but the fact that he's had to modify his original formula (which originally was as close to spider silk as possible) to deal with stronger and stronger threats, the angle of her fall, and the additional G forces on her thrown back head were potentially fatal if not had already sealed her doom. As for the Green Goblin's comment... that was just the writer's trying to come up with an excuse for Norman Osborn.
If you recreate the same panel the way they did in The Amazing Spiderman 2 would she still survive? I'm not sure she would. Peter had to stop her just before Gwen hit the ground and his silk didn't have any stretch at all. It didn't stretch in the Amazing Spiderman when he was saving cars thrown from the bridge. In almost all media comics, animated series, movies there doesn't seem to be a constant where Peter's webs stretch at all, only when the plot says it has to.
Actually, in the Tom Holland Spiderman movies, it does. Like the Captain America vs Spiderman fight in Civil War.
That was pretty much the basis of my question, too. If the webs were stretchy, some of the disasters wouldn't necessarily be averted. An out of control speeding car would still go 40% farther than the point it was hit with the web, slowing the car down, of course, but not stopping it right away either. Some of that energy could still do a lot of damage to people, places, and things before it stops. It seems to me that Spiderman's webbing acts more like a bungee cord than a rope.
Comic panels ar static images never se the vibrations. Plus if you remember the Train scene in Spiderman 2 you can see the web stretches quite a lot.
@@XansStuff That's true, but that was organic webbing from his body. Spiderman uses web shooters on his wrists as you know. The organic webbing from Sam Raimi's trilogy would work just like real spider silk. The webshooters use a spider silk base but its not pure spider silk so its ability to stretch should be less.
@@ScottPhx That is true. But In how many comics, movies, cartoons, and games have you seen the sling shot maneuver? A sling shot doesn't work with rigid bands.
Hello Kyle love the show (and your hair). But there were a few things i noticed in the first couple minutes:
1. During the start when you were climbing on top of the void (which I’m struggling to figure out how) but when you moved you made weird noises which never happened for Spider-Man.
2. When you used your webs to get onto the left side of the bridge you could hear the familiar sound of the web being sent out of your hand, travelling to the top side of the bridge, and then finally you going there in a couple seconds. Due to the angel in which the webbing is joining the bridge we can assume your going up the side of the bridge with the webbing. If we assume that your on the bottom of the bridge than you’d be the fastest Spider-Man ever, which I would think be better if he was played as you.
3. Now later in the video you Spider-Maned over to the right side of the bridge in let’s say 2 seconds. That would mean my point before is confirmed as you’d be travelling ridiculous speeds 6570.0000 kmh (or 4082.4087 mph for you American boi)
Or I could be overthinking this and you just wanted to edit yourself to be more like Spider-Man. With that Thor like hair of yours I would love to see you do it. I’d probably do some stuff for the chance to see Spider-Thor come in and save me or stop me.
Anyway love the show and I hope you continue doing it.
In the Amazing Spider-man 2 her head hits the ground so we'll just meet half way
no it doesnt
MusicalBoarder I just watched it and the only thing that doesn’t hit the ground is her midsection, her head and feet both smack the ground
@@MusicalBoarder her head without a doubt hits the ground. Watch closely.
@Draugyr That also wasn't off the side of a bridge, it was in a clock tower. When Kyle mentions that she fell halfway down the bridge's height it's assuming that she's falling towards the water. This is important because if we subtract the clearance that the bridge allows boats which is roughly 41 meters (rounding down), we assume the same fall distance, and also assume that the height of the clearance from below is the exact same height of the road above. Then the Spider silk's stretchy slowing-down properties only have about a meter and a half to slow her fall before she hits the bridge. I believe that if that's the case then she'd die, something similar would happen if she fell almost to the water's level because the surface tension of the water would feel like hitting a solid surface, e.g. concrete, when you fall at certain speeds.
If someone wants to calculate the maximum distance that she could fall off the side of the bridge, get slowed by the spider silk, hits the water, and then lives please go ahead. I don't want to do the calculations right now.
we dont talk about the Amazing Spider-Man 2
Hey Kyle! Love the show!
What's more amazing is that spiders mainly use two types of webs.
By varying the protein component, they also vary it's properties.
They use a more rigid one composed of more beta sheets than alpha helices of protein, for support when they are hanging and for the radial structure of the web, on the other hand a more flexible web, with more alpha helices are used for the spiral part for capturing prey and wrapping them.
You look pertty sad whenever you mention Gwen's death. Did that moment in the comic have a real impact on you?
The movie version if I am not mistaken had Gwen wrapped by the hip/low torso. There what kills you is not the whiplash, but your body flexing beyond what it should. This is why painters and high rise operators have full body harnesses.
Well at least in the movie they get around this by having her head hit the ground.
I don't think her head actually hit the ground.
David Britt it did. I put it in slow mo. And that’s also why her nose was bleeding. ua-cam.com/video/Xi3P8vUveVQ/v-deo.html
@@superskullmaster Ugh, that crunch noise was so spot on too.
Kiyomasa The Crow sure was
Lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Peter doesn't use actual spider silk. Rather, he uses a chemical compound that mimics its adhesive properties. Its only later that Peter gains the ability to shoot actual organic webs.
So his webbing may not have the same stretchiness of actual spider silk, and therefore, would have still killed poor Gwen.
I was gonna say the same thing. In the Marvel universe there are certain "benchmarks" used to measure a beings abilities. The ability to snap Spiderman's webbing is one of the strength benchmarks. He's used it on Hulk with minor success but if it stretches then Hulk probably wouldn't have been able to just rip his arms free like he did. He probably would have... I don't know... maybe taken it off more like a tight shirt?
Assuming all of your assumptions are correct, what about a possible snapping movement of Gwen’s body when her body slows down and possibly whips her head? Just a thought for your footnotes.
Darn it!!! I commented right before you concluded your video but would still love for you to address the whipping motion of her body and the force exerted on her neck.
Well, I sure as hell know nothing about the math involved but I've floated the theory that Spidey's flexible webbing would have stretched enough for Gwen to survive for decades. I've also always said that the thing about the comic scenario as presented suggests that if anything- It's the Goblin's hit that would have killed her. His flyer (Not glider, since it has a jet engine) is a hard metal device with sharp edges. Based on the speed he'd been traveling, he would have literally cut Gwen in two.
I’m taking AP Physics and AP Calculus this year and am now appreciating the work out into these calculations.
Kyle has web powers! Oh my goodness an adgardian with freakin spider man powers! Spider thor, spider thor, does whatever spider thor does. Shoots a web, at the hulk, but mr. hulkey doesn’t really care. He gets smashed, off a plane, now he’s salty and quite mad. Thanooooos is gonna kill spiderrr thooor!
I read this while rhyming the spiderman song, and it fits perfectly.
You didn’t account for the speed he had shoot the web.
The web could have already been stretched when it reached her leg.
The web would need to be traveling twice as fast as she is falling.
Peter Parker is very much a person who can't rely on luck to be on his side. It's a pretty common theme throughout most media starring him that if there is any probability involved it will play against him.
For his sake, I hope he never has to go up against Domino.
He spent too much time around Black Cat?
I think the most determative factor would be in how the web catches her. The way they showed it in ASM2 could definitely kill someone. But I don't see the old school ankle grab as being nearly as deadly. The neck just wouldn't be shocked in a way that has a high probability of causing permanent harm.
The continuation of motion even with the stretchier webs. A grab from the waste could still cause deadly harm to the neck since the human body just isn't suited for harsh directional changes in the direction.
Kyle's observations are incorrect. Peter was using his old formula which was much more rigid than regular spider silk. He has since adjusted it.
Actually gotta give credit to Amazing Spider-Man 2 for the stretchiness of the web line causing her to hit her head on the ground, wasn't expecting them to shoot it like that.
0:11 that sounds so wrong on so many levels xD I assumed the sound would be closer to velcro being ripped apart quietly :P
Kyle I got nothing on this one but I guess I could SLING something up as this is the WEB after all. 😉😉
I think you meant to say TWHIP something up.
One problem with the stretchy webs is that they would act like a bungie chord used for bungie jumping We've seen this in the Rami trilogy and TASM where Spider-Man spins 2 webs and pulling/walking backwards, then essentially "slingshotting (slingshooting?)" himself forward. If the webs could act as a slingshot for him, then when they caught her they would likely cause her to spring back up like a bungie jumper, which doesn't seem to be depicted in the comics
Kyle it may not have broken her neck but ... what about the blood in her body being that quickly forced I to her head what might that have done?
Possible make her faint. Maybe give her a little headache. Such things aren't lethal as far as I know.
@@thomasgrinwis9384 lethality is possible but more likely that a blood vessel burst under the pressure and make problems possibly total mental disability or some such other things.
@@shannonnezul4903 That is possible but with this fall and tbe catchting I believe this not being the case
The Amazing Spiderman 2 movie also seems to address this,as the stretchyness slows her fall... but its too little to late as her neck impacts the floor, breaking her neck that way instead.
I think all of this is why in the movie they had her head just barely "thwap" on the ground and thats what kills her, that spidy's web was actually TOO stretchy and didnt stop her FAST enough Which is actually REALLY ironic.
Love the show, mostly because of your hair 😅 Shouldn't the stretchiness and the toughness of the web be higher since it's not a single pencilwide strand Spiderman shoots out, but a multitude of strands adding up to a pencilwide "rope"?
The young modulus is a bulk property, which means that for a given stress applied to a material, despite any variations in the dimensions or volume of the material (approximating the material as a cylinder), the same strain should be produced
As the thread used by spiderman was thicker than theorised; the cross-sectional area increases. Then assuming force of extension as a constant, the stress would decrease as stress is equal to force per unit area, therefore as the young modulus is assumed to be a constant the strain would also decrease. If the object only changed in thickness (not length) then this would result in a decrease in extention, as strain is equal to extention divided by length.
This means that as the thread becomes thicker, the extention per unit force decreases, and thus the spring constant also decreases.
This means that a pencil wide thread would be less stretchy.
Dosent spider man have magic silk as he is a mutation
So, technically speaking, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 handled this more realistically, where her death wasn't caused by the G-force snapping her neck, it was caused by Peter being a split-second too late and resulted in Gwen's head smacking against the concrete.
Her spine broke, her organs bled internally, and when her corpse head hit the ground she was already dead.
Yeah they fixed this theory in the amazing Spiderman, showing that spider silk isn't Ridgid but showing that Spiderman catches her to late and she hits the ground anyway.
6:01 you can see that when Spiderman stops a runaway train using is webs, the web stretches before stopping the train.
Hey Kyle, love the show! Question: Would Peter's homemade web fluid work in the same way as biologically produced spider silk?
That I'm aware of, Spiderman used an older version of the webbing back then and it wasn't as elastic. Gwen' s death is what caused his more responsible hero days.
Here's a nerdy question for you based on an observation from the two stills wherein she is killed. First, we see the web attaching around her calf and knee area. Then while she is being pulled up it appears that her center of gravity is around the lower torso area. If we assume that the web was attached enough of the base of the femur to leave the weight of her upper body trying to pivot backwards at the hip joints instead of the knees, (otherwise she would have been hanging upside down while he pulled her back up) so as to establish the femurs as being an extension to the fulcrum, HOW HEAVY WERE HER BOOTS? She would have needed to have the area from her mid-calf to the bottom of her feet weigh as much as everything from her lower femur up. Thanks for reading this, love the show!
Why did you ignore the air resistance?
At these speeds it just isn't relevant
Air resistance would lower the speed. With these calculations Kyle showed that Gwen might have survived at this speed. So the logical assumption would be that she would also survive if the speed was lower.
Worst case scenario kind of thing. And because it was easier this way 😉
Without air resistance is worst case, because she's have a lower final velocity -- kH
@@becausescience hmmm that lower case K should mean something. 🤔
@@aliozanerbektas Started doing it because it reminds me of "pH" and I like it idk -- kH
Her death in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 makes more sense, the web was anchored to her BACK. Her whole body whips in a neck breaking cringe-fest of sadness.
That's the kind of video that you just pretend you understood
Spider-man's silk is tuned for a 76 kg man to be able to swing 30-40 miles an hour from it while also being thin enough to fit inside of a tiny capsule. It wouldn't be a stretchy as regular spider silk.
In a later comic Green Goblin said the torture that he put her though strained her heart that the fall put her over the edge. She was dead no matter what Spider-Man did. Plus, they wanted to kill her any way.
gwens head looks to be going sideways not backwards, the picture has three motion lines beside her head showing sideways movement when combined with the ones that say snap on her neck. In theory it was sideways head movement that killed her (less movement needed before the spine can't go any further from her heads weight and snaps the neck).
EG: Car crashes think how quick the head is stopped during impact in a side on hit compaired to a rear ender .
I liked this video simply because of the J Jonah reference. Hahaha very nice. 👍
Did you know that Spider Silk costs $340 per/gram .
Doesn't matter now She died to death
Said that twice in the video in fact -- kH
"Died to death?" Getting a bit redundant are we? That's like saying I "waked to waking" up this morning.
@@evilparadigm lmao party animal
I got Gwen Stacy and Gwen Stefani mixed of for a second and was very worried
Honestly, I care more about Gwen Stacy more than I care about Mary-Jane
Given what was said... If she fell just a little more than 42 meters, the spider silk would've stretched so far her head would've hit the ground... like a bungee cord accident.
I thought it was the fall in the amazing Spider-Man 2 movie.
Who else did?
I just realized, in the amazing spiderman movie, spiderman caught gwen stacy 2 times in the same way (at school and inside the clock tower), but only 1 time she survived, the other, well ....
In the movie, it wasn't whiplash that killed her, she actually hit her head on the concrete. Therefore, neither the elasticity nor tensile strength matters of the web matters, just her velocity, the bone density of the back of her skull and the density of the concrete.