Differential Backlash Exercise
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- Опубліковано 24 жов 2020
- Educational exercise for students to understand differential backlash measurement and adjustment. This video shows the effects of threaded adjuster and differential ring gear positioning.
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Great, this is the first video I've found that really explained how tight the cap bolts should be while making adjustments. Thank you.
Seriously I could sit here watching this over and over again. Very educational great video bro. Bring out some more. 🍺🍺💪💪🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺✌️✌️
Absolutely clear and we'll explained video thank you for making it.
Awesome video! Extremely helpful and detailed explanation!
Needed this video. Thanks!
Great video ....thanks
Very good. I bought the tool to adjust the backlash while still in the jeep i have. Pull tires, pull the differential shafts and use the long tool to adjust from side. I need to get the right side or differenttial closer to the ring gear to reduce the backlash.
Is there a question in this comment that i can help you with?
Interested to know the adjusters thread pitch to see how it corelates to the backlash changes.
My ford was bad when i got it at used car yard with leaking diff and it was very clunky, it needed a 0.38 mm pinion shim and brand new carrier shims, now there is close nearly no backlash, I used boot polish on the ring gear, i suspected it did a lot of towing before purchase.
appreciate the video.
Wery good explanding Thanks
That's good explanation
Thanks for the video! I am trying to put an LSD in my 1993 MX5. I had bought a complete diff and figured id check everything before installing. According to the service manual the tolerances should be 0.09mm - 0.11mm. When setting the backlash I am able to achieve a variation between 0.09mm and 0.15mm across 8 points on the ring gears teeth. Reading your other comments it seems the only way to achieve better backlash figures would be to remove the ring gear and re seat it, however I was unsuccessful in undoing the bolts. is a variation of 0.06mm permissible in your experience? The manual goes on to say it that the maximum backlash across 4 points should be less than 0.07mm, but this is greater than the variation in backlash that's initially described in the manual. Cheers!
I normally deal in thousandth of an inch and not mm so I had to convert these values. If the variation of backlash measured values from the maximum to the minimum is 0.07mm or less you should not have any problems. Please note everything I did was in inches and all the comments are in inches. Sounds like your diff is OK.
@@DrivelineMaster brilliant thanks for the help!
I’m doing my Miata too! It’s an 92 and I’m putting a Torsen in it but I’m taking the ring and pinion out of a Kia shortage to make it a 4.77 LSD
Don't be surprised if it doesn't fit.
@@DrivelineMaster the ring and pinion was actually made by Mazda and sold to Kia, it’s a pretty common swap actually, I didn’t clarify that haha
Where can I get the adjustable spanner nut wrench that you have in the video?
That is a great tool isn't it. That is a Mazda factory tool. I will look to see if it has a part number on it and report back. I did make one out of strap steel and bolts that is bulkier but works good.
Where do you get that diff holder tool? Very handy!
It is an OTC tool and you can get it on Amazon. Someone else asked that a while back and I looked it up and responded with the part number.
@@DrivelineMaster Do you have a link by any chance?
Found it on JEGS. OTC 7020 holder. www.jegs.com/i/OTC+Tools/717/7020/10002/-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvbL9g9T98wIVsyitBh262Q5bEAQYAyABEgI6nPD_BwE
Thanks! How tight should the side adjusters be when finished? I am worried about being too tight and burning up the bearing.
Side bearing adjustment is a little tricky and depends on the size of your diff (bearing size mostly) and the gear ratio of your ring and pinion. First measure your pinion bearing preload without the case installed. After installing your case and adjusting your backlash with the proper pinion depth measure the turning force of your pinion and case as an assemble without any axles. This should be between 2 and 5 inch pounds greater than the pinion bearing preload. Large gear ratios close to 4:1 to 5:1 should be closer to 2 or 3 inch pounds greater. Gear ratios below 3.8:1 can be closer to 4 or 5 inch pounds greater than the pinion bearing preload. Using this formula should put in in the ball park to where you bearings won't be too loose nor will they be too tight.
@@DrivelineMaster Thank you very much! I have 4.10 gears in a Mopar third member(742 case). I assume that the oil seal is not installed when I measure the 2-3 pounds greater than the pinion bearing preload?
The oil seal can and should be installed. just make sure the seal and the companion flange surface are both lubricated with a light grease such as a white lithium grease. the seal is also installed when you set your pinion bearing preload.
Thank you!
My 43:10 differential doesnt have these adjusters, is there a way to adjust ?
If your differential does not have threaded adjusters it will most likely use shims. Search for " differential side bearing shims". Also check out this video that explains it pretty well.
ua-cam.com/video/yE-2IVqAwOw/v-deo.html
@@scottcpan68 thanks for the reply i will check it out
can I just adjust the backlash of my rear 9.5 toyota land cruiser differential and not mess with any other adjustments? theres a loud banging noise every time I shift from P to D or R and while driving and slowing down I can hear the rear differential banging. Previous owner said the differential carrier bearings were replaced but he never did any adjustments. I have a feelings I have excessive backlash on the rear. I have a 4wd part time kit and have isolated the banging noise from the rear differential. Thanks for the time.
Yes, this is possible however if it has been banging you should inspect everything to make sure there is no other damage.
@@DrivelineMaster my pinion pre load was at 0 its supposed to be at 1Nm and my ring gear backlash its supposed to be in between 6 or 8 thousands of an inch but it was at 45 thousands. I adjusted everything just slightly overtorqued my pinion nut. Hope my pinion gear bearings won't get trashed too soon.
Your bang was most likely that .045" backlash. Wow, that was excessive. It's pretty normal for a high millage vehicle to have 0 turning effort on the pinion. Tightening it up to 1nm should be OK as long as you didn't do too much. Used bearings are normally set to a lower value than new bearings. Setting your backlash back to .006 - .008" will definitely solve your clunking noise. Did you look at your side or spider gears for wear and excessive backlash? These are what take a lot of the load and often wear out first.
@@DrivelineMaster yeah my side gears had excessive backlash or seemed worn out too but, I didn't mess with those since I didn't had the shims to adjust them. I'm eventually going to re gear my differentials so I'll be diving back in the soon by then I should have all the necessary shims.
I would not just shim the side gears. If your not replacing the entire case with a limited slip than I would purchase new side and spider gears. These take all the load and often show the most wear. When purchasing the new side gears you may need to know the number of splines on your axle shafts.
I've talked to you recently about R&P job in my truck. I've been having issues tho with backlash readings unfortunately. I was checking my BL and was doing about every other tooth with dial indicator and was getting everything between 0.003-0.009 in difference so im really struggling on what to do and what can cause this when considering everything is brand new parts other than carrier shims kinda and im using set up bearings for pinion. Any suggestions at all please im all ears!!
Excessive backlash variation is caused by too much ring gear axial run out. There are several things that can cause this. The case can have excessive axial run out. The ring gear bolts can have uneven torque. The flat side of the ring gear could not be perfectly flat but instead it might have a few thousandth of an inch of tolerance. You might have to re-clock (reposition) the ring gear onto the case. or you have a bad gear set. Your going to have to be a detective. Remove the ring gear but mark it first so you know where it was on your case. Put your case into the housing with the setup bearings making sure to have some preload. Put a dial indicator onto the surface where the ring gear bolts to and rotate the case to check the run out. Make a note and mark the high and low spots. Anything more than .001" is too much. Even .001" is pushing it. It's a little more difficult to check the ring gear flat surface. You need a precision flat surface that you can put the gear on. If you have one put your gear on it and use a .001" or .0015" feeler gauge and see if there are any spots where the feeler gauge will fit between the gear and the flat surface. If you have a piece of glass that sometimes works. If you can identify a low spot where the feeler gauge will fit mark that spot. Now make sure the two surfaces are really clean and bolt the ring gear to the case and try to match the case high spot on the case with the ring gear low spot. If you didn't find high and low spots or you are unable to perform these test you can just reposition the ring gear onto the case. Rotate the ring gear 180 degrees from the marks you made when you took it apart. When you torque the ring gear back onto the case make sure to torque in two steps and use a crisscross torquing of each bolt. A two step method means that if the final torque value is 90' lbs. first torque the bolts to 45' lbs. then go around again with the torque wrench set to 90' lbs. Make sure when pulling on the torque wrench that you pull steady and smooth. No jerky motions. Make sure there is no contact paste on the gears and recheck the backlash. If this is better or worse but still not acceptable try another position. If you have tried several positions and your backlash varriation is still excessive (more than .003" maximum. .002" for most diffs) the only conclusion is the way the gears are cut. You don't need to check every other tooth. Check about 6 to 8 locations around the ring gear for backlash. Let me know what you find out.
@@DrivelineMaster thank you much my man you've basically been the only person I've been able to get advice from I know 2 other ppl that can install gears but work in a refinery and been hard to get up with em so your help has been a blessing. What happens if I did run it as is tho, I have been curious just due to the fact I'm about sick of messing with it. Been hard to just be able to stay in garage for very much time at all to try focus on it but also once I try figure out if there are highs and low spots how do you recommend getting ring gear back on? When i initially installed it i lined up 4 bolts in an X pattern and tightened them each one a little bit at a time while adding the other bolts doing the same thing in zig zag pattern till I eventually was able to squeeze the ring gear onto the case then took them back out leaving 4 still tight and lock tighted and torqued so that might have been a mistake but not sure cause I have seen other videos of guys doing that but then I seen others afterwards of putting ring gear in oven before installing which seems better. I've been able to check the runout on outside diameter or ring gear with Pinion out of housing and and was getting close to 0.003 then also checked the case in best spot possible considering ring gear was attached still but was getting close to 0.001 that said I do have tone ring thats kinda in the way so been thinking of pulling it off to get runout on flat side of ring gear which is obviously towards the heel tho, I did use a feeler guage .0015 to see if I could get it between ring gear and case and did not squeeze in no where but glass does make more sense so I will try that as well asap.
You can try to measure axial run out on your ring gear while it is installed. Here is my link ua-cam.com/video/5RXuvz9Ku84/v-deo.html. If this is less than .002" you technically should not be having this problem unless the problem is directly related to the cut on the gears. Pulling ring gears on with the bolts is not a good idea. This often damaged the bolts even if you can's see any damage. Some will use the old bolts (also not recommended by me) but almost everyone has an oven. It's pretty simple to put the ring gear in the oven at 200 - 225 degrees F for 20 minutes. This should be enough time but you have to work fast after removing from the oven and use heat resistant gloves. You can view this video starting at time stamp 9:15 or use this link ua-cam.com/video/dCHKyO0XIJc/v-deo.html to see how I do it using a hot water bath to heat the ring gear. You just have to work fast before it cools. The beginning of the video shows how to remove the ring gear. Are these brand new gears? What brand are they? Have your reached out to the manufacture? Have you searched to see if others are having similar problems with this brand of gears? You may need to remove the tone ring to get a good measurement. You may need to change the gears. Don't run this diff with .006" of backlash variation.
@@DrivelineMaster yeah I was afraid you were going to say this after I had kinda considered this to be a somewhat simple job in a way considering ive always been around turning wrenches my entire life but never a rearend rebuild but i thought I had done enough research before hand to get this done right and unfortunately I know now that I did not😔.. to late to turn back now tho but I hope I didn't screw myself when running gear up with bolts but I did use the old bolts luckily maybe and have new ones that came with master kit so I can go back with those. Gear set came from Ebay unfortunately I probably cheapped out on doing so not knowing any better of course. This has been 6 months ago and just now started working on it due to lack of time it is an 3.73 gear by Richmond Excell i didn't realize this was just an off brand of Richmond so thought I found a deal when really I just hurt myself maybe. I haven't reached out to the manufacturer because of the fact it was an Ebay seller which I guess once problems started is when I found you and plus I know manufacturer most likely wouldn't exchange them anyway so idk but it is a brand new set as well. 🤦♂️
I should've known better than to buy a part like this from Ebay knowing it be a while before I could even start on it but I won't run it with that amount of variation if you say not to cause I definitely do not need more issues and Detroit truetrac wasn't cheap neither so definitely don't wanna damage that at all! Would it be a good idea to go back to 3.55 factory gear set on the new case/differential if i cant figure out problems with new gears and if I do what all should I know before doing so also not sure how to identify if factory set is worn and reusable or not? Thank you for everything man really!!!
My uncle 1996 mercury grand marquis gs is making a clunking sound when you put it in reverse and in drive. I thought it was the u joints but they're fine so the guy said it was the differential. The differential have play so can it be rebuild or he have to buy another differential?My uncle 1996 mercury grand marquis gs is making a clunking sound when you put it in reverse and in drive. I thought it was the u joints but they're fine so the guy said it was the differential. The differential have play so can it be rebuild or he have to buy another differential?
Yes, the differential can be rebuilt. the play might be in the spider gears and not the ring and pinion or it could be both. It's time to remove the back cover and do an inspection. I have also see the pinion pin and case were out causing this same thing. Next step is a visual inspection to find out where all the extra play is coming from. You may not need a new ring and pinion.
@@DrivelineMaster this is correct. I had a pinging noise in my 98 Mitsubishi Montero. Turns out it was worn spider gears.
Spider gears will typically only make noise on some kind of a turn and get quieter going straight.
hi so what us ideal amount of acceptable back lash
There is a manufacture specification for backlash for each differential. On an average I have seen anywhere from 0.002" all the way up to 0.014" with most averaging between 0.005" and 0.007". The builder really needs to check the specification from the manufacture for the specific differential.
wish me well on my final next thursday! hopefully manual transmissions wont be completely eradicated
Good Luck.
All well and good, but unless you own a mechanic shop, who has those tools?
Correct there are some specialty tools but out of all the driveline components to repair the differential needs the fewest specialty tools and the cost is not excessive. Of course if your not rebuilding differentials or only see one every few years it doesn't make sense to purchase these tools. The magnetic base 0-1" dial indicator setup is a common Automotive tool and used for a bunch of other measurements in the automotive trade.
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18mm for Chevrolet Babaeby. 10 on a used 12 on a new will help you chase away the deferential blues... after reading this....I need to stop drinking,...., as much 👀
Anyone else think this guy sounds like Data from Star Trek?
Sorry, I try not to.
Can my uncle juat take everything out and put new pinion gears and everything: will be alright
Sorry I didn't see this until now. NO, when everything new is put in there needs to be setup and adjustments made.
@@DrivelineMaster well thanks i think he needs to get that done before something bad happen
@@DrivelineMaster just makes a clunking sound when you go from park to reverse and from reverse to drive and i want to help my uncle fix it
This can also be caused by worn out Universal joints on the driveshaft. The driveshaft should be removed and the joints inspected. If the problem is excessively worn spider gears it would be possible to just change out the spider gears and not touch any other adjustments and settings but it's rarely that simple. If the spider gears are worn it's possible that the case or pinion pin is also worn. If you just need to replace the pinion pin and spider gears once again you could get away without having to make any settings. Beyond that any other fix would require the knowledge and tools to make all the settings. If it's high mileage which is what I would suspect there is a good chance it will need more than just spider gears and a pinion pin. You are right to be concerned because letting it go can and will end up making it more expensive especially of something lets loose and breaks all together. The only way to know for sure is to 1) inspect the driveshaft U-Joints and if they are OK the back cover will need to be removed to inspect the internals of the differential to determine where the excessive play or backlash is coming from.
FYI. Not trying to be the slightest bit offensive when I say watch Weber Auto 1.5x playback spd and learn twice as much in half the time. I know, shut up Einstein
Weber Auto does a great job. My biggest complaint with Weber is the videos are too long and he is long winded. I try to keep my videos as short as possible and to the point. You very rarely see me talking about something and giving an opinion but instead you see the object or item and my hands with specific information. This of course is why you say to watch Weber at 1.5 speed because he goes to slow and his videos are too long.