I just went today to the range, I have a ruger American hunter in 6.5 creedmoor, arken 6x14 and 22" barrel. I noticed that this powder moves in and out of the node very quickly. I believe it was 43.5gn that shot a .324 group at 100 yards. And two more different lower charges almost matched it.
43.1 StaBall 65 with the 143 ELD-X's grouped 5 shots, into, a 5/8th inch wide x .175 High group at, a COAL of 2.835" for me, at,. 2,725 FPS ,.. I'm Very pleased !
Staball like Superformance are not like your usual powders. Not by charge, density or velocity. You can easily get 2850 fps. Try for 2800fps with 44.2 and COAL of 2.800 (95%). If you are getting an erratic plateau chart your density is too low. Ex. fill the case (with bullet) to 85% and you get a chart like what you see. The higher the case fill %, the longer and flatter the plateau will be. You should be seeing a plateau of +/- 0.5 gn (full 1 grain spread).
I plan on using the 6.5 Staball in my begara 6.5 creedmore with 130 grain scirocco moly coated what is a starting load you would recommend Norma large rifle brass and CCI 200 primers
I wouldn't be able to tell you any starting point specifically. Look in a loading manual and see what max is. Then back off up to 10% and work your way up. I personally have never used a 130gr. The lightest bullet I have loaded for 6.5 Creedmoor is the Barnes 140gr. Thanks for watching and have fun with the process!
I had a great load with superformance and the 147 ELDM..I was concerned with temp stability so I switched to staiball 6.5 and had great luck with 130 and 140 grain projectiles.
@@mattsreloadingbench your load of 43 grains pretty much matches mine exactly also..I like the validation because I'm relatively new to reloading but I jumped into the hobby full go..
I've mastered 6.5 grendel out of a 20" Howa bolt action..it doesn't have the power of the creed but from 85gr to 120 gr I've worked up awesome loads.its my favorite 6.5.
I use the same combo in my t3x. Your results may differ, but I had a very similar experience regarding accuracy being good and SD/ES being meh w lower charges. Then I went up into 44gr territory. Gun shoots consistent 0.4 moa with an SD around 5 fps. I also set the neck ID to 0.2635 (neck tension of 0.0015) which increased speed and improved SD/ES.
Great question! Thus far, after having 2 PRCs and 2 Creedmoors, I am finding that the Creedmoor is more accurate, but the PRC is flatter shooting. I am finding that with the PRC, I am getting better results at lower charge ranges where with the Creedmoor I am getting better results at the max charge area. I am starting to notice the the heavy bullets are not performing as well when you kick up the muzzle velocities.
I have not personally noticed a difference in performance. But I do think that the primer pockets hold up better over more reloads of that piece of brass. I believe that is because of the fact that there is more brass in the base due to the primer pocket being smaller. It can hold up to slightly higher pressures also.
Matt, 2 questions here: 1)Have you considered playing with cartridge length at 43.1 to see if the group shrinks up? Bcuz that SD and ES is gonna be nice past 1000 yards. 2) at 0.020" off the lands, what is the COAL? Can u even fit those in the magazine or do u have to single load them. My AR10 6.5 CM is like 2.230 to the lands and the longest i can load 147's into a steel duramag is like 2.218 to the ogive. Thanks for the video!
I can definitely look at that some time in the future. It is too long for a magazine. I don't take the mag into consideration for my precision rifles. I single feed them. But for my hunting rifles, I try to keep everything as close to published COAL.
Just found Stabal in stock @ lcl Cabelas. Want to use it for a mule deer load in my 6.5 CM; your vid is _timely_. My bullets are Hbn treated. Hope to get similar velocities in my 22in 5R TC Compass barrel with Peterson brass & Fed 210M primers. Sunscribed!
I would have to say that the only advantage to PRC over Creedmoor is that you can achieve higher velocities. This results in a flatter shooting round. Also, the 6.5 PRC has a harder impact at a little more distance than the Creedmoor because of this. As far a group sizes, that is all dependent on the quality of the rifle, scope, ammunition and the shooter. Now, from my personal experiences, I am able to get the following results with my rifles .5 MOA with my Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor .3 MOA with my RPR 6.5 Creedmoor .2 MOA with my Seekins Havak HIT 6.5 PRC .75 MOA with my Christensen 6.5 PRC *** not happy with results *** I love all of these except my Christensen. It was one of the hardest rifles to hand load for that I have ever had. Heavy guns make small groups easier to obtain from my experience.
The recipe = brass / primer / powder and charge / bullet including seating depth. Results = 5 shot group sizes at 100 and 500 yds / Average Muzzle Velocity / SD / ES. Shooting Date and weather info of when the shot data was created. Weather info = Date / time of day / elevation / humidity / Atmospheric pressure. Every time I shoot, I take notes of all of this in a notebook and apply it to my final recipe book.
Also you are too close to the lands. Hornady and Hodgdon recommend 2.800 for a reason. Current practice is no closer than 50 thou off the lands. Previous 20 thou practice have been erroneous. This is also why your velocities are anemic. With 43.7 you should be at about 2775fps. Your case fill % is low at very low 92%.
Great video Matt. Great info explained quickly and to the point with no wasted time nor annoying personality tics it hip ups.
Thanks man!
Thanks for watching!
Good video, straight to the point.
That is what I strive for.
Thanks for watching!
I just went today to the range, I have a ruger American hunter in 6.5 creedmoor, arken 6x14 and 22" barrel. I noticed that this powder moves in and out of the node very quickly. I believe it was 43.5gn that shot a .324 group at 100 yards. And two more different lower charges almost matched it.
Some powders are like that.
Thanks for watching!
I would have tried different seating depths at 43 grains next, looking for consistent groups under .5 MOA.
That typically would be my next step.
43.1 StaBall 65 with the 143 ELD-X's grouped 5 shots, into, a 5/8th inch wide x .175 High group at, a COAL of 2.835" for me, at,. 2,725 FPS ,..
I'm Very pleased !
Staball like Superformance are not like your usual powders. Not by charge, density or velocity. You can easily get 2850 fps. Try for 2800fps with 44.2 and COAL of 2.800 (95%). If you are getting an erratic plateau chart your density is too low. Ex. fill the case (with bullet) to 85% and you get a chart like what you see. The higher the case fill %, the longer and flatter the plateau will be. You should be seeing a plateau of +/- 0.5 gn (full 1 grain spread).
Thanks for the info!
The StaBall 6.5 looks to a little better than the Superformance powder as far as speed an accuracy which is interesting and good to know.
I am really impressed with it!
I plan on using the 6.5 Staball in my begara 6.5 creedmore with 130 grain scirocco moly coated what is a starting load you would recommend Norma large rifle brass and CCI 200 primers
I wouldn't be able to tell you any starting point specifically. Look in a loading manual and see what max is. Then back off up to 10% and work your way up.
I personally have never used a 130gr. The lightest bullet I have loaded for 6.5 Creedmoor is the Barnes 140gr.
Thanks for watching and have fun with the process!
We found Staball had smaller groups with large rifle primers..
Interesting...
I had a great load with superformance and the 147 ELDM..I was concerned with temp stability so I switched to staiball 6.5 and had great luck with 130 and 140 grain projectiles.
I like using both powders
@@mattsreloadingbench your load of 43 grains pretty much matches mine exactly also..I like the validation because I'm relatively new to reloading but I jumped into the hobby full go..
@@william16845 it is a never ending rabbit hole if you are not careful. LOL
I've mastered 6.5 grendel out of a 20" Howa bolt action..it doesn't have the power of the creed but from 85gr to 120 gr I've worked up awesome loads.its my favorite 6.5.
@@william16845 very nice!
I use the same combo in my t3x. Your results may differ, but I had a very similar experience regarding accuracy being good and SD/ES being meh w lower charges. Then I went up into 44gr territory. Gun shoots consistent 0.4 moa with an SD around 5 fps. I also set the neck ID to 0.2635 (neck tension of 0.0015) which increased speed and improved SD/ES.
I will have to tinker with that!
If you feel like sharing, I'd be curious to know how it goes.
Correction to neck ID. I used a 0.2635" mandrel that sets the neck ID to 0.2625". 1.5 thousandth interference on the diameter.
@@dereka6740 I have not yet gotten a mandrel die. Maybe that is what I get next
It will be a while. I am away from the bench for a few weeks.
Man these are very cool videos. Thanks again. In terms of accuracy out to 400 yards, do you get more accuracy out of the Creedmoor or the 6.5prc?
Great question!
Thus far, after having 2 PRCs and 2 Creedmoors, I am finding that the Creedmoor is more accurate, but the PRC is flatter shooting. I am finding that with the PRC, I am getting better results at lower charge ranges where with the Creedmoor I am getting better results at the max charge area.
I am starting to notice the the heavy bullets are not performing as well when you kick up the muzzle velocities.
Very thorough response Matt. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question!
If you have more questions, feel free to ask!
Do you notice a difference between large primer and small primer. Debating switching to small
I have not personally noticed a difference in performance. But I do think that the primer pockets hold up better over more reloads of that piece of brass. I believe that is because of the fact that there is more brass in the base due to the primer pocket being smaller. It can hold up to slightly higher pressures also.
The 15 shot ladder test is invalid given typical shot to shot velocity variation. You are basing your load development on random noise.
It has given me a good starting point to use.
Thanks for watching!
Has iny one used this power in 6.5 Grendel? And can I find loding data?
I have never shot 6.5 Grendel
Matt, 2 questions here:
1)Have you considered playing with cartridge length at 43.1 to see if the group shrinks up? Bcuz that SD and ES is gonna be nice past 1000 yards.
2) at 0.020" off the lands, what is the COAL? Can u even fit those in the magazine or do u have to single load them. My AR10 6.5 CM is like 2.230 to the lands and the longest i can load 147's into a steel duramag is like 2.218 to the ogive.
Thanks for the video!
I can definitely look at that some time in the future. It is too long for a magazine. I don't take the mag into consideration for my precision rifles. I single feed them. But for my hunting rifles, I try to keep everything as close to published COAL.
Just found Stabal in stock @ lcl Cabelas. Want to use it for a mule deer load in my 6.5 CM; your vid is _timely_.
My bullets are Hbn treated. Hope to get similar velocities in my 22in 5R TC Compass barrel with Peterson brass & Fed 210M primers. Sunscribed!
I'm glad that I could help!
Thanks for watching!
What is your barrel length
24" stock barrel on a Ruger RPR 6.5 Creedmoor
How does your 6.5 creedmoor rifles group compared to 6.5 PRC? Any accuracy advantage between the 2?
I would have to say that the only advantage to PRC over Creedmoor is that you can achieve higher velocities. This results in a flatter shooting round. Also, the 6.5 PRC has a harder impact at a little more distance than the Creedmoor because of this.
As far a group sizes, that is all dependent on the quality of the rifle, scope, ammunition and the shooter.
Now, from my personal experiences, I am able to get the following results with my rifles
.5 MOA with my Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor
.3 MOA with my RPR 6.5 Creedmoor
.2 MOA with my Seekins Havak HIT 6.5 PRC
.75 MOA with my Christensen 6.5 PRC *** not happy with results ***
I love all of these except my Christensen. It was one of the hardest rifles to hand load for that I have ever had.
Heavy guns make small groups easier to obtain from my experience.
Just do your research and make an educated purchase.
Very nice. What information do you write in your book?
The recipe = brass / primer / powder and charge / bullet including seating depth.
Results = 5 shot group sizes at 100 and 500 yds / Average Muzzle Velocity / SD / ES.
Shooting Date and weather info of when the shot data was created.
Weather info = Date / time of day / elevation / humidity / Atmospheric pressure.
Every time I shoot, I take notes of all of this in a notebook and apply it to my final recipe book.
@@mattsreloadingbench Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Have you tried it in extreme temperatures to see how ‘staball’ it is?
No. I have not had the chance yet
Going up in .1 g increments. It’s a waste of components.
Thanks for watching!
Also you are too close to the lands. Hornady and Hodgdon recommend 2.800 for a reason. Current practice is no closer than 50 thou off the lands. Previous 20 thou practice have been erroneous. This is also why your velocities are anemic. With 43.7 you should be at about 2775fps. Your case fill % is low at very low 92%.
Thanks for watching