Is Superman Still Relevant Today?
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Are superheroes like Superman still relevant, or have we "evolved" passed morally righteous heroes in favor of the anti-hero or villain? Let's find out.
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Are you kidding? In this particular time in our world’s history, we need a man like Superman. And as much as I love Batman, the world will always need Superman.
Of course we need such things. We're fucking animals. Deluded, self centered idiots with megalomania, who at the same time hate humanity but also believe themselves above our bestial nature, ignore the fact that we need a moral compass outside ourselves. Otherwise we devolve into our more animalistic natures. Just like the SJWs who think following their instincts and feelings is progress when in actuality they're acting just like cockroaches. This is why despite all the issues caused by the people who manage religion, I think we fucked up majorly in phasing out religion as much as we did.
Absolutely!
If the Judeo Christian faiths or really any religion prove anything it’s that humans need some sort of higher power to aspire to be.
We need stories of a boy scout Superman as much now as an atom age and the destructive power of the atom needed Star Trek. Today is a darker place however, because those creators who exist in times of social cultural strife have fallen into nihilism and tell stories that go along with the trend.
What is needed is a story, about a person, who is good, and tries to listen to their better angels, while searching for the high road so that the low path need not be taken. But sadly many of our modern day story tellers have given into the lure of heroes who have lost their own interpersonal struggle to be better than they are now written.
@Inkosi-Inathi Memani Did you actually watched the video?
If you like the Snyder version.. Fine.
8 honestly don't have a connection with the DCEU Superman at all.
“Anger is easy. Hate is easy. Vengeance and spite are easy. Lucky for you, and for me, I don’t like my heroes ugly and mean. Just don’t believe in it.” - Superman/ Clark Kent Action Comics #775
That’s all you need right there.
Superman represents the best of what humanity can aspire to. Shocking that Hollywood doesnt find that relatable /s
That's a good point. And it's why we try knowing/teaching right from wrong at all. We want ourselves/our kids to strive for greatness. Goodness isn't easy, b'coz giving into temptation gives us that quick dose of satisfaction, but in the long run it causes this endless cycle of wanting to do wrong to quench the temptation, and it's destructive.
@@urbaraskpraetor3316 Same. I'm surprised a society that stresses correctness is going to criticize one of the greatest people in fiction that encourages hope, doing justice no matter what, and believing in humanity's worth.
Hope is what fuels that thirst for better, fighting and working for a better world. To show people "you have it in you. Now do it. You will succeed." Some say hate is a unifying agent and keeps passion stoked, but optimism is a powerful and less toxic motivation.
Shouldn’t one not judge things by appearance alone? Just because someone is ugly or even appears to be mean doesn’t mean they are.
@BruderShaft1 one has to wonder why exactly we lost our way. And how we can reconcile that while also growing and changing and being better than we were before without being too aggressive about it.
Basically being a villain is easier, showing a complete surrender to personal benefit. To me there will always be a place for Superman.
This^^^^ it’s easy to be selfish. Children are selfish by nature. It’s an early survival trait. It’s up to adults to steer those base traits into a selfless nature. It’s the only way to truly be a good parent. Putting your kids before yourself. On a societal aspect multitudes of selfish people create a selfish society. Selflessness is a struggle even for honorable people. For a fantasy character like Superman becoming a character like the Boys Homelander would be as easy as flipping a shiny switch. Which is why I love the character deeply. His resolve a dedication to his morals are inspirational to say the least. Which I agree is needed in every era. Even if a utopia is impossible. We should never stop striving to come close.
I disagree about being a villain is easier. Being selfish, sure, that’s easy as pie. But from the moment someone chooses villainy they’re declaring the overwhelming majority of the world as their enemy. Heroes are lucky in the sense that they’re all more or less working towards a common goal, whereas villains fight with eachother just as often as they fight with heroes. Although I get you’re speaking from a morality perspective but even then it really depends. Some villains have really valid reasons for being villains and ofc not every villain commits the same level of crime. Sorry for the paragraph, it’s quarantine and I’m bored.
@@immaguitar3640 I did mostly mean it from being a lazy writer kind of perspective. Maybe "easier" was the wrong word choice. Morally complex villains are rare, but when done well they can definitely be a bright spot in a story. But only when balanced against a strong positive moral force. If everyone is written as kind of morally gray or even more villainous, then its just anarchy really. Nobody to really root for. I would however argue a bit against "making the majority of the world their enemy". Given that I'd say 80+% of people on earth are more neutral or passive than anything else, villains doesn't have quite as much of a consequence as it might otherwise. The various studies made that show people will generally not help even in the presence of injustice (bystander syndrome or something like that) makes villainy more appealing, I think. But the main point I think is that these writers having the mindset they do is more of an indictment on our society, that villainy is considered cool or relatable. Not a new thing either, which is sad. But it feels like people don't even pretend like they want to be better. Sorry for my rambling long response 😅
@@SpyralHax Ah sorry for the late reply but I should have been clearer on the majority of the population bit. By that I meant the authorities, rival villains, heroes etc.
@@80sMoviesRule1 That's a good point. And it's why we try knowing/teaching right from wrong at all. We want ourselves/our kids to strive for greatness. Goodness isn't easy, b'coz giving into temptation gives us that quick dose of satisfaction, but in the long run it causes this endless cycle of wanting to do wrong to quench the temptation, and it's destructive.
The moment you mentioned how "above all else the purpose of a hero is to inspire others" I couldn't help but think how even though he really has so little screen time, particularly before hand, Mumen Rider in One Punch Man inspired everyone, and brought so many viewers to tears when he stood up against the Deep Sea King.
and King intimidates villains.
So Mumen Rider = Superman and King = Batman
@@Barwasser Mumen Rider is actually based on the hero Kamen Rider in Japan. A man who was kidnapped by an evil organization and forced to go through a cybernetic modification, after that he escaped the organization and vow to use the power given to him by evil to defeat evil it self.
Mumen rider is such an amazing character
That moment was one of my fav moments in anime ever.
@@shade_zz1585 Oh boy. I didn't know he was based a cybernetic character. I hope One doesn't butcher MR by having The Organization capture and experiment on him. I know he gets an upgrade later in the WC which could be setup for a fall. Damn.
While Saitama finds followers from his immense power being witnessed, MR inspires anyone because he's an underdog that has willpower beyond his power to back it up. I like that aspect of him making others better just because he's there instead of because he can physically effect the outcome.
9:25 "You are living in a f***ing dream world"
Funny, Manchester Black said the same thing to Superman in Action Comics 775. Superman's response?
"I wouldn't have it any other way. Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul, I swear... until my dream of a world where dignity, honor, and justice becomes the reality we all share -- I'll never stop fighting. Ever."
Holy cow that's good
Truly that is the Superman we need! One has to wonder if Zack Snyder knows about Superman’s answer to Manchester.
@@michaelkarimian7538 Heck, if they want dark and gritty heroes acting like villains, just make a movie about The Elite.
@@VecheslavNovikov I watched the animated movie of it, its probably my favorite superman movie.
@@gra9 DC has some really great animated movies. A pity the big screen hasn't seen much of that. I suppose with smaller budgets and fewer expectations they're free to take more risks on the animated features.
But yes, that final fight especially. Especially the lines "Pop" and "Cut. It. Out." Great voice acting.
"We like villains because they struggle..."
Proceeds to describe self indulgence...
Yeah... Looking at their works, this explains a LOT.
Doesn't it? lol
@@LiteratureDevil The videos great and all but i think one counterargument is that Superman has no inner conflict when it comes to these moral dilemmas, his "conflict" comes to an easy resolution at the end of an arc by a convenient solution or in your example by simply accepting his death no questions asked.
@@friktogurg9242 a hero doesn't have as much inner conflict as others, because heroes are better than us. When they do have inner conflict its because of one of their flaws, superman is suppose to be a perfect hero, or near perfect, he doesn't have many flaws to speak of, he is the ultimate goal of all heroes, the immortal piller.
@@ollehkacb That why many people say he is boring or tiresome to look at though. It is one of the many points in the video.
@@friktogurg9242 what i mean to say, his problem almost all ways boil down to philosophical decision or moral question. These sound easy paper, they always do.
Like the trolley question, its easy to say you'll pull the lever and allow one innocent person to die to save five, however when you are actually confronted with that reality, it becomes very difficult.
So yes on paper it sounds easy that he simply accepts death, however that isn't something a lot of people can do, especially when its before their old age.
I really don't know how people can honestly say that Superman is unrelatable when compared to Batman.
How many people are ultra well-trained billionaires who have suffered a traumatic event in there childhood that results in them going on this lifelong futile crusade to fight crime? Probably not many.
But how many people are there who were raised by loving people who happen to not be their birth parents? How many people were raised in a rural environment? How many people feel like outsiders? How many people go to office jobs every day? How many people have a crush on someone at their work? How many people try their best every day to be the best person they can be, and help out whenever they can? Probably a lot more than you expect.
The myth that Superman is unrelatable comes from writers who aren't skilled enough or mature enough to understand than potential storytelling there is with the superman character.
A thing that really bugged me was when in Justice League Batman says that Superman is more human than Bruce and all that when in the start of the same movie 2 kids approach Clark asking for an autograph, and he just looks very pissed at these kids. Like thats not Superman nor Clark kent thats just dumb writing
@@mrcheese1328 Yeah, I feel really bad for Henry Cavill. I really think he could pull off a hopeful, optimistic, and human superman, but the writers/directors/studioheads just haven't given him the chance.
It's not about Batman being a billionaire. It's about the fact he's traumatized by the death of his parents and used that pain to become Batman. Healing from trauma to become a better person and how Batman is cynical. He knows the world isn't some happy perfect place like Superman envisions it to be
@@littenfire3563 At the sane time Batman isnt very sane though. I mean everyone lost someone but they dont become a superhero cause of it.
Well put.
"The purpose of a hero is to inspire those around them" *Turns to Mumen Rider* yep
Your comment made me smile.
Mumen rider is the most heroic hero in OPM. although my favorite character overall is Genos, Mumen rider is the most heroic one.
@@zeehero7280 nope he rival dare I say even bested every goodness of heroism in EVERY single fiction there i said it come at me who ever will come
@@mfirdanhb no one is gonna argue against such truth that your preaching
You're pretty brave for a guy with no tank top.
There are no boring heroes, just creatively bankrupt writers.
Notably: Even Sonichu can be an interesting, compelling, and inspiring hero in the hands of a competent writer.
None?
@@laststrike4411 It sounds hyperbolic yeah but I don't think any hero is inherently boring or non engaging given the proper support from the writer crafting the setting and obstacles.
@@foxmountain8065 Fair enough.
One Punch Man shows this as well.
Clark Kent isn't weak and cowardly. He is earnest a hard worker, optimistic.
If anything, it's the life that Superman sees as one where he gets to get a "normal life", with a normal job and a normal relationship - to have a "life" that isn't all about the responsibility to save everyone, be a hero for most of his waking life and not lonely all the time because he's too busy flying off saving the next person.
Someone who says that, simply failed to look deeper at the character? He doesn't see humans as weak or cowardly, he sees humans as worth saving and allowing them to be the great people his biological dad told them they could be? :/
Yeah. The superman I know respects ma and pa Kent and loves them. He cares deeply for humans.
Clark was raised to be a gentle and considerate being. He is not making fun of us.
I actually kind of liked the portrayal of Clark Kent's dorkiness as stemming from his being an alien who didn't quite get humanity.
And if you find yourself trying to fit into a society that you can only understand at an intellectual or transactional level, and you happen to have nigh-godlike powers, it seems like using those powers to serve others is a very positive coping strategy.
Bill (or should I say Tarantino) hasn't read a single fucking Superman comic in his entire life.
@@Archonus "The man's never had a Duff in his life!" - Homer Simpson
Heroes are cookie-cutter
Villains are unique.
Are they though?
"“How monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been; how gloriously different are the saints.” -CS Lewis, Mere Christianity
"How many snarky anti-heroes and tweeners with hidden issues are there in this god forsaken genre again? I thought this was supposed to be an ocean of narrative potential."
-Me, probably.
Evil is always banal.
"There is a right and a wrong in this universe. And that distinction is not hard to make."--Superman
Didn’t Billy Batson think that way in JLU and got hardly criticized for it then?
This was a quote from Superman in the comics regarding his point of view and judgment in situations. In the episode with Captain Marvel (the Wizard is Shazam, not Billy's character) Superman was getting jaded because things done to him in the series by Darkseid and Luthor. This episode kind of served a check so Clark could see where he was going and the mistakes he was making by becoming too cynical and straying from his more hopeful attitude.
@@ianmason6867 yes, i know, i watched the Episode, that‘s why i brought it up. I also could‘ve bring up when he spared Joker‘s life and would’ve let Lois die because he didn’t want to be a murderer. That was a moment that contradicts his own quote.
@@jazmineprincess7878 I guess maybe I don't understand what your question pertained to then. My bad.
When right for Superman wouldn't always be right for me, and right for me would be wrong for Superman.
Right or wrong depends on what value you're holding, what moral and norms you have, and what kind of life you've experienced. It isn't necessarily universal.
As a teenager, I lived and breathed Batman. The older I got, the more I started to enjoy Superman as a character, downright becoming a fan. The idea of moving on from tragedy and making yourself better is still pretty great (until everyone really started playing up Batman's paranoia). But, there's just something about a super chill guy who just does the right thing because it's the right thing to do. It didn't really click until I saw Superman become a dad.
My two cents, though, is it's kinda sad when writers in Japan get Superman, overall, a lot better than we do.
Go forth, my mustachio'd crusader.
Its very sad that the only other media to get Superman rigth, outside the comics are the animated tv shows that are criminally underated and not very watched
Source please?
@@GnosticLucifer 177013
Don't believe him he is lying. 🤪🤪
Superman done right is really good stuff. See Superman Rebirth.
Rebirth was fantastic for Superman. Between the Action Comics and Superman titles, the Rebirth line holds several of my favorite arcs for the character.
Then Bendis happened.
My favorite is Superman Red Sun. It has by far my favorite Lex Luther too.
Hey, Yellow Flash! I'll check it out. I also really enjoyed Kingdom Come. Too bad Mark Waid went insane.
My favorite is All-Star Superman
Superman Unchained!
“A knight in shining armor is a man who has never had his mettle truly tested.” Words cannot begin to describe how much I hate that phrase. I’ve always looked up to the knight in shining armor. They are the ideal. They’re something to strive for. A writer can absolutely make these characters interesting, and I believe that they’re absolutely relevant in our modern world. Superman is the modern knight in shining armor.
I mean, the rest of that phrase means that the speaker respects deeds over the appearance of nobility.
Or is a knight that, despite going through a lot of battles, still finds the time to take care of his gear...
It would seem that all those that quote that phrase never heard of Pierre Terrail.
@@DonVigaDeFierro A knight who, despite going through trials, gets up, shows the self-respect to clean himself up, and keeps going.
Armor can still shine even with battle scars
I think one really great example you missed in here is from Superman #701. In this issue a woman is on a building attempting to kill herself (basically the same premise as the infamous scene from All Star Superman). The police officers ask Superman if he could put her down, but as soon as he tries the woman shouts at him and makes him make a promise to her that no matter what, he won't attempt to save her if she willingly decides to jump and that he will not take her down by force.
Superman agrees, of course, he is a man of his words and then they start talking. The woman talks about how shitty her life is, how she was misled from childhood about how she could be a hero of the world and how she could do good for it. Clark agrees that unfortunately it is true that the world is rough, but also says that it's not unjust as well. After that, the woman asks Superman to leave her alone for a while, to which Clark responds "That's alright. I will be here for you when you want to talk" and then proceeds to wait *all day and night*, just standing there right beside her.
After a while she willingly lets Superman carry her down and she is saved. *This* is Superman for me. He is a friend, a friend that all people need in their lives, a friend that helps them through hardships, a friend that will always be there when you need him. I like how Bruce is perceived as the more human of the two. Tell me, which is more relatable? A guy who grew in the farm who went to a school, got bullied, helped his Ma and Pa at the farm when he got back, got a nice job, had a crush on a workmate who transforms into a superhero when he is needed? Or a guy who inherited millions from his parents, who knows over 123 martial arts, who went around the world to study in all fields of science and philosophy in all the best universities in the world, who dresses up like a bat at night to fight crime?
Agree. I'm isn't a big fan of both of them, but Superman is much more relatable and "human" compared to Batman. They give him 12 level intellect, 120 martial arts and etc. I doesn't see him as human.
@C and yet despite that power, his humanity still shines through and brings out the best in him. It's not about the fights that make him super, but the man that does.
Thank you for your comment. I just bought that issue and read it, and without exaggeration, it maybe my favorite comic of all time.
@C Yes, daily he goes to work, eats, talk with friends and worries about payday, but he also saves people from a falling meteor, a tsunami, helps a lil' girl with her cat stucked in a tree.
Is not the power but what you do with them.
And if you want a more palpable struggle, he could destroy everything around him not necesarily by choice but by collateral damage.
Still, It may just not be you kind of character, the kind you enjoy. Maybe try reading something like "Whathever happened to the man of tomorrow" or "Superman: American Alien" could help you see the Red and Blue (That´s also a comic title, lol) boyscout in another light.
Wait why is that scene infamous in all star superman?
I think optimism is a ... a difficult choice. A lot of people take refuge in cynicism -- if the world is a shitty broken place, they can be shitty broken people. "You can't hold me to the moral standards of superman because I didn't get to grow up in a comic book." Cynicism sanctions greed, entitlement, dishonesty. For many, they see a Superman holding to his moral purity and they don't see an ideal to aspire to, they see a standard they fall short of. They imagine judgement for their sins a weakness. Easier to dismiss the troublesome figure.
I think these people just put up an excuse and even in a comic book would not act differently, so just ignore them. In reality no one could eliminate e.g. the mafia in Sicily. And if they have your family hostage, most say, just like Superman, "I'll do what you want, just let them go." Game over. Sometimes it is so much work to do good, that it would take multiple generations, but can be easily sabotaged. And if you fail, it's not only you losing, but they will make sure to make an example of you such that others will be discouraged. It is just easier to become a physician, scientist,... if one wants to do good. Cynicism may therefore be one way to cope with impotence against this overwhelming powerful machinery.
@@Warkurus That's why cynicism rules. Superman acting like Superman in a comic book universe is one thing. But Superman-like ideals in this world, with all its grey morality and indifferent assholes. Look at Rami's second Spider-Man movie; it shows what it's like for a hero who is heroic and is not treated like a hero. Does he abandon the city that never says thank you? He toys with leaving and just taking care of himself. He almost does it.
@@Warkurus This makes Superman seems more mature than Batman and Wolverine.
He's aware of the shitty reality that we're leaving.. Yet he always looks for a more optimistic attitude
Thus they hate the idea of God.
@@lordsandwich4570 Because for them it's too easy to debunk rather than trying to comprhend.
Faith isn't something you can explain.. You just have it.
I'm only 19 and like many I had my doubt on my Christianity.. But i manage to regain my faith after a frustrating moment of my life.
Is Superman relevant today?
The answer is yes. Characters like Brightburn, Homelander, Tighten, and the Sentry to some extent ask the question "what if someone who had Superman's powers (and sometimes even a similar power level), wasn't like Superman." What if a Superman like character could give into that temptation Superman's nearly incorruptible spirit won't allow him to. But the irony of this is, it shows us the importance of Superman's morals. Superman could wipe out the human race if he felt like it, but he chooses not to. Some people view Superman as a god amongst mortal men instead of a guy who wants to help as many people as possible and has the means to do so. His powers ultimately mean nothing if he doesn't do the right thing.
This is exemplified by Injustice Superman and Ultraman (who are just evil versions of Superman) and their defeats at the hands of the prime Superman.
Speaking of Brightburn...you should watch Alteori's video of "What if Brightburn kid met Superman?" Great video.
ua-cam.com/video/fhILehdpBfM/v-deo.html
Superman as a character and concept is, and will always, relevant. The thing is, in a continuation like mainstream american comic that will probably never end and with different writers partaking in it, the story with that one character will become stale on one point, mostly because the writer can't bring more creativity into the character. They stuck at this point and can't bring some semblance of a hero journey to superman and opting to play it on the villains instead.
The concept of superman has been copied, parodied, and rewritten so many times, some are interesting with their own twist to the character, but even with that much success, the story will definitely end. That's what preventing the stories from becoming a boring one.
For me, the universe of Marvel and DC are indeed in a need of a hard reset. But they should look for some competent story writer first, unlike these writer they employed nowadays.
You'd get characters like Lobo and Darkseid
FULLY AGREE
Absolute power isn’t even why homelander is corrupt, interestingly enough.
The most frustrating contradiction in the arguments of those "modern creators" is that they say that "Superman is overpowered and thus has no limits" and then immediately "Superman is too limited with his boy-scout morals". Like, here is the limitation right there! Just make a story where Superman has to wrestle about some moral desicion - and there actually were many stories with that premise about Superman.
yeah. The struggles Superman has to face aren't the physical ones everyone very commonly think of, but rather how to solve problems where his ideas are challenged, put in situations where it seems the only solution is to break them, essentially giving up
Can I have some recommendations of these said stories of Superman dealing with moral dilemmas?
@@aqualiusaidhreborn5923 Action comics #775 or the movie "Superman vs The Elite", Superman Peace on Earth, Superman: For all seasons and why not, Superman American Alien.
Kingdome Come too, and that one is featured a lot in this video.
Thanks for this. Personally, I’m not a big fan of Superman for many of the reasons people commonly aren’t, but I have always admired that the character has traditionally always been of strong moral character. Before seeing this video, I hadn’t given much thought to what struggles he might face given that he doesn’t specifically have anything to fear from physical threats. But it’s crazy for me to realize that Superman’s struggles are moral ones. Not that he ends up messing up (in most cases), but temptation is always present for him, and perhaps is even greater for him because of his great strength. It makes him relatable specifically because issues of morality are issues every person on earth has to deal with in some way every day we’re alive. It makes it all the more important to still consider superheroes like Superman as relevant precisely because most of the world doesn’t want to wrestle with the need to be moral. It’s easier to simply right off morality as being a sentimental relic of tradition that holds people back from doing what they want to do. And, as it turns out, traditional values of morality ARE designed to stop people from doing everything that floats their fancy, because not every feeling or impulse we have is good.
Speaking personally, as a Christian, it makes perfect sense to me why Jesus equates hating someone in your heart and lusting after another person with murder and adultery respectively. It’s because, when you break down the actual acts of murder and adultery, they always begin with a person who decides to foster hatred and lust in their mind without restraining themselves in their thoughts and feelings. Cain murdered Abel precisely because he refused to rule over the sin of his hatred and jealousy. Moral laws exist specifically to help keep us from falling into every temptation we have to back-bite, to lie, to steal, to spite, because those actions don’t save or deliver us from our problems, they only damn us, and, as you pointed out, demonstrate a great deal of immaturity and an unwillingness to grow or improve when acted out repeatedly. Speaking again from my knowledge of the faith I hold, part of the reason why I believe that God became a man in the person of Jesus was so that He could do the Superman thing, and demonstrate to all the world that living a good life, choosing to do the right thing, and doing justice unto others and showing mercy even when they spitefully abuse you is possible for anyone, no matter how hard it may be to do. When the doctrine of Christianity holds that Creator of the people who killed Him held the atoms that made up the hands that beat Him, the whips that scourged Him, and the wood and nails that He hung on until He suffocated to death together through all the pain and agony, regardless of whether anyone believes the story, it speaks to a sort of love, mercy and patience that seems impossible to most, but nonetheless is possible for all. The world needs to believe that that kind of great love is possible. Because it’s easy to be selfish and to be petty, to hate and spite. It’s hard to love when you’ve been used and treated like scum, but I have yet to meet anyone that would say it wouldn’t be better to forgive and show mercy, and even to show love to someone who’s made themselves an enemy rather than to simply do what comes naturally and act spitefully.
Personally, this is a good reminder to myself as to why we have a concept of heroes at all, whether they’re real or fictional. They exist so that people like me can be challenged to live and be better. To know and believe that I can live virtuously and live in victory over my failures and shortcomings.
“And that is an encouraging thought.”
Man, I genuinely tear up reading to your comment. I may not be fully Christian, but I agree that the figure of a savior is needed to remind us of what we can do, what we can achieve.
Amen brother
“The women of marvel feel restricted by ethics the way a tourist might feel restricted by a foreign language.” The most savage an accurate thing I’ve ever heard.
Just, dayum
"Pray not for an easy life. Pray to be stronger men"- John F Kennedy.
Cono ! I love that
I think Bruce Lee had a similar sentiment. "Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one."
"I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders."
- Jewish proverb.
I thought the second line was "Pray for the strength to live a hard one."
You what funny is that Regan and JFK are more to the left than Biden he doesn’t care about the left he want the title and money that he’ll get form his bribe form donors form Wall Street and Hollywood just like Trump they don’t care about us they only pretend to care unlike JFK, FDR, and even Regan they care
The criticisms of heroes by edgy antiheroes and villains is extremely hypocritical
They say that showing mercy is weak; acting selfishly for short-term gratification is weak. Showing restraint to do things the right way takes strength.
They say idealism is just living in a dream, but people delude themselves into thinking that everyone and everything is just bad. You think no one has ever done anything nice for anybody else in the entirety of human history? That no one has ever had a positive experience before? That every moment of every day is doomed to misfortune? That is delusional.
Giving in to cynicism and pessimism is not a virtue. It's not strength. It's weakness and failure. Everyone falls. Only the strong will pick themselves back up.
Holding on to your beliefs is not weak or immature. When the world tries to pull you from what you hold dear, the weak will let go; the strong will not surrender or compromise on what they believe.
This pitiful grimdark bullshit is nothing but a celebration of weakness for weak, selfish people who want to feel better about their own failures while mocking those who dare to be better.
If you like Constructive-Criticism-Essays, try the videos of Madvocate, Jay Exci, and Hbomberguy, especially those about Shows and Books. Oh, and Krimson Rogue.
I love how the internet has caught-onto the Concept of constructive Criticism Essays, so thats the simple reason why i comment this to you. No reason, no being-a-Bot.
But enough of me 'speaking in General', so let me say something more specific now:
Heroes dont Struggle is of course a very broken Mindset of Todays World. The idea that the world is so hard
that all Hope is lost. No, hope aint lost, we just need to embrace
grounded, good Coverage of Problems. Like UA-camrs who really takcle Issues (whatever
its Crops or Wars or Bias or the GOP), like Knowing Better, Illuminaughtii, Some More News,
and Real-Life-Lore.
They keep you Updated and thats worth so much, showing that
wwe can totally tackle Problems head-on.
While i fully agree with you, i think i understand some of the criticism against superman, namely about struggles. Other heroes are vulnerable, they are seen struggling in combat. Superman does not. His struggle is a mental one, which is very valid and can be very interesting, but is harder to portray. I can see how in the eyes of some people, there is no struggle because superman always wins and always does the right thing. It becomes predictable and less meaningful if the author fails to show the mental struggle that superman goes through.
I also think that it's a trend. There was a time when heroes had insane superpowers, there was a time when heroes were almost regular people. Just a decade or two ago, superheroes were not mainstream and you were either considered childish or a nerd for liking them. Now people (or at least the creators) like edgy anti-heroes and villains. It could have a deeper meaning, it might just be reflecting a certain mindset of today's society. But it is also a trend, people will grow tired of it and it will be replaced by something else.
As someone who never liked superman, and generally did find villains and anti heroes more interesting... this was very thought provoking and profound.
I came here expecting something that might help explain my disdain for this, and similar characters...instead there were a lot of things said in this video that not only made me think about my opinion of Superman and "boy scout" heroes in general... it is also making me think about me and my own life. Not to necessarily say my opinions and outlook on life are wrong, but to admit that perhaps I haven't fully considered another point of view.
This is quite an exceptional piece of work sir. Thankyou.
I think Up In The Sky might change your mind. It's Superman being dragged through hell trying to be a hero. It's a perfect example of a hero's struggle.
For the record you are wrong.
You my friend, took the words out of my my mouth.
Boyscout is not boring. Captain America is a boy scout and he is the best character of the MCU.
"Like, I identify with villains"
Let me speak for all former Marvel fans: WE KNOW.
It's a rare case where they actually identify with what they are
You see, a good bulk of SJWs are postmodernists, who thinks there are no good or evil in the world but only power dynamics, and yet of course their side is that of justice because of the thousands of evils of patriarchy...*yawns* You get the point.
@@user-gb7ji6xy5d Oh grow up man, DC and Marvel comics have always been progressive thinking.
Schlock Jocks Heroes were never progressive, they were a mash up of existing content of the era into a hero, they were never founded on change but the lack of change, They stay in their morals, they stay by their friends, they act in a consistent mater for all their mortality, they must grow up and change into a hero, but once there, they remain. The chosen heroes are a reflection of their era, and their niche mannerisms represent the culture they came from. The new “progressive” take at marvel and DC, changed those same Paragons, into feeble men and woman, who can’t even hold a candle to past selves. The postmodernists took the pillars of their forefathers, they destroyed them, they brought the low sum, rubble onto themselves.
@@anonymousguy720 "Heroes were never progressive,"
Captain America dealt with social issues all the time, like Civil Rights and questioning the government. Spider-Man was effectively one of the first deconstructions of the Superhero and dealt with working class issues in ways other Superhero stories always ignored.
"The new “progressive” take at marvel and DC, changed those same Paragons, into feeble men and woman, who can’t even hold a candle to past selves."
That's Right Wing propaganda from folks who refuse to accept that the world has moved on.
"The postmodernists took the pillars of their forefathers, they destroyed them"
No, they just question them. Not their fault their predecessors are so thin skinned they can't take criticism.
There's also a saying that power doesn't corrupt, but instead reveals the person for who they are.
Because great power gives you the widest latitude to make decisions. If you have fewer constraints, the actions you take will be closer to your actual character.
TRUTHFULLY
Yes. Power only magnifies the good and evil you already have. So one might ask, "how come evil people always seem to be the ones wanting power?" That's because evil implies lack of self-control; one can't help oneself to grabbing power whenever one sees it. Being good in and of itself is power: the power of self-control. The power to restrain your urges to an external power you know you'll abuse.
@@maxalain9948 Good point.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity. If you want to test a man's character, give him power" - Abraham Lincoln.
This video consumed 15% of my phones battery
It was power well spent
I'd honestly say Superman matters a lot more now when the idea of an earnest, hard working, morally unflappable man is being overshadowed by broken, cowardly, evil men in mass media. We need Supes back more than ever.
.....so what your saying is, some people are stuck in their edgy phase.
Edgy teenage phase. Exactly
@@maxalain9948 "Adults" more like it.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 I call them "adult toddlers".
i was in that phase for a long time. the i grew out of it in my mid twenties.
More like realistic phase rather than some idealised one where we dream about some all powerful Jesus type as a comfort character telling us everything is going to be okay.
As his saying goes that I believe makes him timeless is this quote.
“Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honour and justice are the reality we all share. I’ll never stop fighting. Ever.”-Superman Vs the elite.
YES! SAY IT LOUD! That was a great movie I also thought about it during the video.
That movie was awesome
YES! I was thinking of this movie a lot while watching the video. I think that film really demonstrates who Superman is and the moral struggles he faces as a hero.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm very curious about this version of superman.
The virgin "Ideals and morals are for the naive and foolish" vs. the chad "I will fight for what I believe is right regardless of how hopeless it seems"
The virgin is right about ideals
Basically a hero's journey is an analogy to person's growth from an immature child to a healthy adult. There might be challenge along the way but they helped us developed as a person.
Also devil, have you read one piece. The main character is an interesting one in my opinion. He has that childlike innocence yet he also have an indominatable will that many people looks up to. One of his quotes is "as long as i'm alive i have infinite chances"
Bill was wrong. He was born Kal-el. The alien looking in. Both Clark and Superman are his views on humanity.what they are, and what they could be.
Superman is the symbol to aspire to-something even he fails at from time to time-which is what modern interpretations seem to miss. Superman's greatest power is not, and never has been his strength, flight, or invulnerability. it is his humanity, something that Kingdom Come explored fairly well.
Exactly! Bill did what so many modern writers like to do. They make Superman more like themselves, instead of keeping him Superman.
that's because quentin tarantino is the worst writer and director in history, how come you people can't see that?!
i am so sick of people singing him praises. sure some of his cinematography is interesting, that's about all i can say without going into negatives.
seriously ED WOOD was better than quentin tarantino
Personally, I prefer the 80s version of Superman born in Kansas but artificially conceived on Krypton. He was Clark , and Superman was just a costume. A recurring theme was how middle-American values grounded him as he learned more of his alien heritage. That's a very American ideal.
@@basteagui I've long said that Tarantino isn't a great director. He just does genre homages. He steals scenes and references from other, usually better, movies within the genre and stitches them together into a successful stereotypical format for that genre. So while he often does really good technical work, he isn't original.
And he's way too in love with his dialog. All of his characters talk too much - because he needs to impress everyone with how witty he is.
Sounds like they ignore Batman's obvious mental trauma, Peter Parker's constant struggle to stay afloat, and other "perfect" heroes' obvious flaws and plights simply because they are men. Which is literally the same kind of toxic behavior they allegedly denounce.
I think it's less that they ignore it but moreso that nothing really gets done with those concepts in a way that sticks. With a character that's solidly B-tier or even more obscure you have a lot of creative freedom in the stories you can tell as well as how permanently those stories can affect the characters. Batman can never really escape his mental trauma and Peter Parker will always be some average dude just trying to scrape by and while comics have gotten a bit more adventurous nowadays, back then if you wanted something a bit more interesting you'd read Moon Knight or Hell Blazer, etc
@@donut2111 thank you. Most people don't see the hero's struggle as a struggle cause it gets treated more like a character trait. It no different than the guy/girl claiming that they're not like other guys/girls. Just showing or mentioning the struggle isn't always enough. Seeing the hero over coming the struggle and prosper only to find a new struggle can worth reading.
In fact, it has often been said that Daredevil has all the makings of a villian. It's only his moral compass (which has wavered at times) which keeps him from becoming just that.
Pretty cookie cutter, I'd say.
"Superman is an alien so it's easy for him to control his trauma" ... heard somewhere, I'm like what was Injustice storyline then.
@@michaeldavis2001 I disagree. I think that Daredevil is one of the most heroic characters in comics and has one of the most heroic origin stories. He didn't get powers by birth. He didn't get peak human abilities by training to take revenge on someone. He didn't get powers from a lab accident. He didn't get his powers from a pact with a being or beings that may have an agenda that is not completely dedicated to good.
He got his powers by doing a selfless deed that he knew would almost certainly result in severe injury or death to him. He was blinded as a result of his sacrifice. But his blindness came with a reward... he could see the world in a way know one else could.
What you're probably talking about with "the makings of a villain" is him killing the Fixer in Deadpool #1 and other stuff like that. I've always been of the opinion that there are some villains that superheroes need to kill. The Joker will always break out of Arkham and kill more and more people, or attempt to drive a virtuous person to evil ("the one bad day" philosophy, epitomized by The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight (the movie), and Harley Quinn). Random street thugs? No. But true monsters... sometimes, it is more compassionate to kill a monster and let humanity live than to let the monster live and wreak havoc with humanity. Captain America knew it, even in the classic comics. My great-cousin, George Maduro, "the knight beyond fear and without reproach" (as his biography calls him) knew it.
Superman: Exile ... this is one the single greatest Superman stories ever told. I highly recommend it. Superman, plagued by guilt for a murder he may not have actually committed, exiles himself into deep space. There he goes on a 'heroes journey' of his own and discovers a lot about himself, forgives himself, almost gets worshiped by a planet, fights evil aliens who traps people's brains for a "union", becomes a slave and is forced to battle .. well, I'm not gonna spoil it but I highly recommend it! I'll be doing a review of the book very soon on my channel!! ... BTW, great video! I really enjoyed it. Also, I need to watch My Hero Academia!
Everytime someone says that Superman is boring or his powers make him a hero and he does not have a character arc or struggle I always remember Jor-El speech in Smallville finale:
"Your abilities may be of my blood, but it is your time in Smallville, with Jonathan and Martha Kent and all the people there, that made you a hero, Kal-El."
“Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul, I swear until my dream of a world where dignity, honour and justice becomes the reality we all share I’ll never stop fighting. Ever.”
-Superman (as written by Joe Kelly)
Zach Snyder, you are wrong. Superman fights for the dream world you disdain so much.
Christopher Reeve's quote almost made me cry... Because it made me understand why people (especially modern writers) fall into this Cynicism: people are becoming selfish. They lack empathy. They don't want a friend, they just want to step over everyone else. If they had the chance to become the most superior beings in the world at the cost of making everyone else miserable, they'd take it. Just like villains.
Superman and Batman don't want that, because they've gone through the pain of being the ones stepped on by others, they know what suffering feels like. Through their humility they try to help others in their own suffering. And that's the reason why they're the friends we need.
Kindness, humility and empathy is what the world needs right now, so we must bring kindness back to our heroes.
Not really selfish, disillusioned.
True,there's a handful of pricks but i'd wager that the great majority would want nothing more than to honestly believe in good deeds and them being true. But they've gotten hit one too many times and now they think they were naive for ever daring to dream of something better than what they were given.
Not to derail this too far, but I think that also takes part in why so many people believe in God -- he's an ever-present, ever-loving being. Who wouldn't want that?
People say superheroes are the Greek gods of our time. Does that make them idols in the Christian sense? And if so, does that mean idols can be good so long as they make us want to be better people?
It's even further than that. Look at the punisher. The dude has no qualms about killing, but even he has an absolute moral code that the "heroes" in modern comics don't share. Like when he killed an innocent man and was practically a wreck because of his guilt.
Many new comic artists have forgotten (or never knew) what makes heroes, heroes. And that sucks, because it means that the characters we love are getting screwed over by people who definitely don't like them, and possibly even hate them.
@@vla1ne ,punisher regretting killing someone,when was that?
Definitely not the 90's he was an asshole back then.
Superman never really had any trauma to speak of. He was like a year old when his planet exploded; and in many iterations Pa Kent is alive. But I don't think this detracts from Superman, but adds
You don't have to wait for trauma to smack you across the face to wake up to becoming a good person. That's not to say Batman is unimportant; he teaches us to repurpose our pain into something positive.
Batman teaches us to stay good in the bad times, and Superman teaches us to not be complacent in the good times
Can't we boil down the whole thing into:
- Traditional heroes were written by authors who intended them to be the ideals we should aspire to
- Modern heroes are written by authors who intend them to be power fantasies
That's basically the distinction between Traditional Superman and MoS Superman isn't it?
Sure we can. If it was correct. Which it isn't
As long as people need a friend, they will always need Superman.
Answer: Yes. People have just forgotten what he stands for, and what he represents.
In other words: He's actually more relevant than ever.
Another case in point, Star Trek.In an era of nuclear power, nation's divided and so on, a little show on TV showed a ship powered by the atom, exploring peacefully, crewed by those they were in a cold war with.
Cut to today, and the idea of an optimistic Trek is the destruction of what it's characters created. A United Federation.
Remember the warnings of Hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy. When you prove black is white, you are more likely to be killed on a zebra crossing. And TV show creators have been trying to prove opposites are one and the same for years that results in their viewing numbers tanking.
@@davfree9732 You'll have to elaborate more on what's going on with Star Trek. I'm by no means a Trekky.
Seven V no, ideology has nothing to do with it. The reality is more hubris. When you have the attitude of everyone else is stupid, everyone else is a hater, everyone else is irrational except me; it’s almost guaranteed to turn into nilhilism
Not the people, the writers.
The desire for self-indulgence is at the heart at a lot of these attacks on traditional heroism, I feel. The call to be something better is rejected because it's easier to wallow in pleasure. Many of these writers have missed entirely the point of what they're supposed to be doing.
Many modern writers seem to want heroes that validate their desire to act from emotion than heroes who represent discipline.
@@LiteratureDevil Not just hedonism, then, but a desire to act without any restraint based upon the desire of the moment. Desire vs discipline.
Sometimes it's easier to destroy the icon that puts the lie to your weakness than to struggle for strength.
This is why Superman vs the Elites in "What's Wrong with truth, justice, and the American Way?" Storyline to be the best story in terms of Challenging this Shallow outlook on Traditional Heroism. Cause if the current Writers at Marvel are Writing out stories with this sort of mentality, than it really explains why Star Wars and the recent live-action Mulan film suffer from the same problems! (Got a little off-topic there).
But yeah, Zack Synder and current SJW comic Writers, don't really understanding what make Superhero comics so special. And its pretty sad and upsetting that the true Moral values that make upstanding people is slowly becoming a lost art! And I find that really disheartening.
I would disagree with some of the phrasing of this argument, superheroes are inherently immature, they are about regression and escapism, I would argue that these people lack this ability, they desperately want to appear mature so they coat everything with this grim dark paint brush, because they've mistaken cynicism for maturity. Perhaps it's a lack of imagination, they cannot comprehend a character that is righteous and noble and that's why they must tear them down
I just think that giving up on ones own heroic ideals in hard times is not a sign of streangth or intelligence, it's a sign of weakness. It just shows that you're not willing to hang on to yourself when things get tough.
I suddenly realized, why the fuck do people think that golden age superman somehow comes from a "naive" era? It was fucking world war 2 for fucks sake! And then the cold fucking war!! People suffered greatly and then they feared a fucking nuclear holocaust! What was "optimistic" back then was the world not being destroyed in a war with the USSR.
Like, what the fuck? Do those people _really think_ that the 40s and 50s were simpler and stupider and it was all apple pies and baseball? Compared to that era (or to _any era_ of humanity) today is the best period to be alive. No argument about it.
Hell, I think that's _precisely_ why superman was created: To give hope to young people born during the great depression, grown during world war 2, fucking living the cold war... Because the world was _indeed_ so bleak that only a demi-god could fix it... And he somehow did...
I've said it before. And I'll say it again...
Realistic =/= Good
People crying for "Realistic" are the ones stuck watching shadows, unable to see how much bigger reality can be.
And why at all cry for reality in fictional works? is that not in the end saying you want fiction to be reality?
@@MouseGoat I honestly don't see how can you make a man dressed like a bat and a dude that shoot laser from his eyes... Realistic
@@wrestlinganime4life288 Same. I've never understood the obsession with comics not being "realistic". The characters are archetypal, literal gods and concepts. Whether you're talking about Batman as a symbol of justice to the people of Gotham or Thor as a full-on cosmic deity. En Sabah Nur represents a screwed-up idea of "survival of the fittest" pushed to its fullest extent, and Magneto represents the righteous anger of the oppressed.
Finally. The people are starting to wake up.
@@elmeromogollonThat's the point.
They're over the tope like how comics book are supposed to be
the whole point of superhero stories are not to depict what is realistic or to be prescriptive of what will happen. They are idealistic views on the world that are supposed to tell you what SHOULD happen and what sou SHOULD strive for!
Even if you **never** reach the **standard of superman** , you should **still work towards it *everyday* ** !
We all know that being virtuous does not equate to you succeeding or being better than others. It does not mean the Villains in real life will never win or that good people will not get fucked over.
**but that is the whole point of the heroic story!**
To present an idea that you promote and try to reach so that **not YOU** but **society as a whole** benefits from virtues being made a standard you SHOULD strive for! **A society that is made up of people TRYING to be heroes, is better and more successful than a society of people that try ONLY to enrich themselves** !
and while it is true that our adherence to these principles will only ever be created by underlying selfish reasons and rewards (I feel good doing the right thing, because my feelings and my culture reward me with acknowledgement that i am doing the right thing) as humans ARE still animals and are beholden to their instincts and the way our brain develops, that does not invalidate the stories, but only **makes them even more important** as we need to ingrain into our minds that being a hero and being virtuous ARE indeed worthwhile and right.
That, even if we understand that we hold these believes because our reptile brain craves the dopamine of admiration and acknowledgement from our peers and that nobody can be truly altruistic, that this doesnt devalue the effect of these virtues or the reason we should uphold them!
because (again!)
A society of people **that TRY to be like superman** is more safe, more functioning and more effective **than a society that tries to be like Harley Quinn** !
Reward those that are heroic, even if they ultimately can not succeed on their virtue alone!
Respect those that try to follow virtue, even if it is detrimental to their own goals or happiness!
Honor those that sacrifice, even of it has destroyed them!
Because even if the individual does not get **direct** benefit from being virtuous, wider society (and so again the individual and all they hold dear) does!
TL:DR In the pursuit of perfection, we achieve excellence.
I agree with you because when people strive for heroism instead of money, that will be the day that chaos will decrease and peace will increase. And it was never a matter of who is better, but who can keep running despite the heavy wind and the weight in their shoulders
The problem is that for Superman to work you have to have faith in the system. Superman believed that ultimately bringing criminals to "justice" meant turning them over to the courts, and that it wasn't his job to solve world politics, because politicians would do a better job (well eventually). Thing is that modern people generally don't believe this stuff anymore. We know that modern courts would give Lex Luthor a sweet deal like they did Jeffrey Epstein and that politicians are ultimately totally corrupt. Nobody believes in the system, it's why anarchists like Quinn are more popular than Superman, who is seen less as paragon and more as the establishment's useful idiot.
@@taragnor Clark was a reporter. His job is to dispel information to the public, including flaws in the system. If an entire society acted like Harley, do you think the system would get better? If an entire society acted like Superman, the world wouldn't be perfect, but it'd be better for sure. The moment you say "what's the point in being upstanding and virtuous if it amounts to nothing," you immediately make the world a worse place.
@@maxalain9948 : Very true. I mean, I think Superman is still a better role model. It's just that general lack of faith in the system and in humanity in general have led to the Superman ideal losing popularity. Many have become nihilistic because so few seem to share in the ideals of truth and justice. Superman represents an inherent faith in the system, but we've reached a point where many believe that the system itself needs to be replaced.
And that's where Superman just becomes irrelevant, because he's not an extremist, he's a gradual change type of guy. Though he could use his powers to institute sweeping reforms to the system, he just doesn't. But people aren't looking for that anymore, they're looking for radical changes.
Ultimately we see the reporter as being ineffective in this day and age. We're surrounded by stories of corruption, and yet nothing is ever done. Quite the opposite we see the rich and powerful get away with all kinds of evil. And in a system that's so flawed we've lost faith in it, the anarchist becomes the hero.
“It’s a cool point. Look, I’m 100% fine with it. It’s a cool point of view to be like, ‘My heroes are still innocent. My heroes didn’t lie to America. My heroes didn’t embezzle money. My heroes didn’t commit any atrocities.’ I’m like, ‘That’s cool but you’re living in a fucking dreamworld.'”
--Zack Snyder.
"Good. Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting. Ever."
--Superman.
Superman is and has been always an inspiration for me. This character is an important part of our culture and we shouldn't let him disappear
Batman is more popular nowadays, yet Superman still must be DC's mascot.
When you ask "why?" you get discussions like these.
Superman is the earth of the DC universe.. Yet batman he's always at centre
@@wrestlinganime4life288 I like to think of it as the Trinity always being in the center. Each one represents a battle for hope (Clark), a battle for justice (Bruce), and a battle for truth (Diana).
@@dasaiyantv8483 Exactly.
But unfortunately WB does not get that.
They dick ride the hell out of Batman, they hired people who don't know Jack shit about Superman lore
@@wrestlinganime4life288 yep. They think Batman = Money when in reality it's Good Story = Money
Superman is the epitome of the singular question at the heart of the entire superhero genre. "What do the powerful owe to society?" Too many writers don't get that this is the one question you need to ask to write a good Superman story.
“But although the cliche says that power always corrupts, what is seldom said ... is that power always *reveals*. When a man is climbing, trying to persuade others to give him power, concealment is necessary. ... But as a man obtains more power, camouflage becomes less necessary.” - Robert A Caro.
Doing good for good's sake is a very admirable character trait. Those people make the best heroes.
There's this comic issue where Superman just walks through the town and tries to help people along the way with their mundane problems and ends up talking the girl out of suicide just by staying with her and listening to her. It's beautiful. And I don't think that any other hero can do that.
I have a growing fascination with Superman lately, I don't know fully why, maybe because he could be the biggest menace to Earth but he's not, he always tries to be better. He gives me hope I guess.
It's because he's a symbol to aspire towards, a symbol of hope. Superman is someone who does the right thing no matter what because it's the right thing to do. He cares about people and believes that everyone is capable of good and that no one is incapable of redemption. There's a lot to admire about Superman; he's an inspiring character
We need Heroes now more than ever. While I do love Anti-heroes, we can't overly saturate the universes with just Anti-heroes. There has to be balance with the characters because if there isn't, things get boring quick. In other words, over saturation would make the Anti-heroes cookie cutter. If you want a Batman who kills, we have Red Hood. They work because they balance each other out. Lastly, Nasalism gets old quick. We need hope more than ever.
I was thinking the same thing great minds think alike
Though fools seldom differ
You just described what the hack comic writters are incapable of understand and that is taugh on every single art school on the first year:
*CONTRAST*
Everytime that there is a bad written moraly gray stories what is always shown is the dark misserable world where they live and its always missing is the bright future that is being looked for. Too much despair just leave the audience saying "why even bother?" and when they say that then they will not care one bit about the story, characters and world anymore. People like chocolate but chocolate every day is abnoxious.
God I hate Nasalism. It sucks saying nothing but the nose matters.
@A guy with an anime Profile Pic Because I can exactly
A hero isnt someone who doesn't struggle. A hero is someone who overcomes their struggles and comes out the other side stronger than ever.
Well said! Definitely agree.
"A hero is someone who gets other people killed."
-Serenity.
Not saying I disagree or anything, just wanted to throw that out there.
GhostLink92 unintentionally tho
That would be easy to understand for anyone
Watchface Well said my friend. True strength comes from overcoming their fears and struggles.
What is this insane notion that the societies of the depression, WWII and the Cold War were “more innocent” than our current one?
2 years later we have My Adventures With Superman - this video aged good
This whole trend of calling anything related to optimism and hope as naive and childish is in my opinion the reason why the world just keep on being more shitty. It's like now being an adult is renouncing any sense of hope, optimism and positivity in favor of being a jaded cynical nihilistic asshole. And that's stupid. Of course you need hope and optimism otherwise why do you continue living. The world *need* Superman now more than ever because he is what we should strive to be: better. But of course it's much more easy to dismiss him and continue wallowing in depression and indulge in your shitty behavior. It's also one the reasons why I'm starting to hate the usage of Batman type heroes in fiction particularly cinema. Instead of being the boot to the ass that force us to be better because now we have no more excuses they just became excuses because people only seem to remember how cool and edgy they were and conveniently forget the underlying optimism in those heroes.
Great vid btw.
It upsets me that people like these diversity hires masquerading as creatives cause fine, intelligent folk like yourself to ruin the word Nihilistic.
Nihilism is BUILT on hope. The fact that nothing and no one matters is a beautiful thing. Because it gives us, as humans, freedom and power. I don't love my wife because her life has intrinsic meaning. I love her because I love *her*. and through her, my life is given meaning, as hers is through me. As your life is given meaning by your loved ones.
The fact we are free to make our own choices, free of any burden of 'meaning', the fact that we, as humans, have the power to, with a mere smile, or touch, or simple word, make someone *matter*. It's not something that's built in, it's a power *we* have. A gift we give. That fact is the most beautiful, hopeful thing I can think of.
These people are fucking edgy teenagers that never grew out of it. Worthless excuses for writers and artists that shame the craft.
@@TheDapperDragon That's much closer to the definition the epically mustachioed philosopher Frederick Neitzsche came up with for nihilism. Sad how many people bastardized his stuff, especially his sister and brother-in-law.
I’m not a huge Superman fan (Batman is my favorite)....but All-Star Superman and Kingdom Come are the two best interpretations of the character I’ve ever read. The animated series from what I remember was good too.
Kingdome Come is my favorite DC story imo. Strangely enough, of all stories, I think Battle For The Cowl is one of the best to express similar themes to it, even more than (the 10/10) All-Star Superman.
@DaSaiyanTV I never read botc....but I’ll check it out. In those two stories I mentioned, Superman’s humanity and vulnerability was shown and that’s what’s needed in a good Superman story cause the character is essentially overpowered and can’t really be hurt. I dip in and out of comics so what people rave about, I check out. The first issue of three jokers was good imo. Hopefully it doesn’t end up sucking.
@@Fatdecember Yeah I've read them. Love them. In Battle For The Cowl, Bruce Wayne is already dead. Without spoiling what happens, it goes into those same aspects of upholding moral value.
Zack Snyder should have read Kingdom Come first instead of Watchmen.
That comic is DC at best
@DaSaiyanTV Yeah, I remember that dc killed off Batman off (for a bit). I’ll look into it. 👍
Ultimately, the key is that a lot of people want the same thing from a hero in morals and feelings as they do in combat. They want him to win. They don't want him to win every battle easily, just to win in the end. In fact, something that often seems very popular is scenarios where the hero is beaten into the ground, looks like he's basically dead, but still, knowing it's a battle he cannot win, still clenches his fists, stands up and keeps fighting no matter what. We want the same thing morally, and that's a way to make a moral character but still make him interesting. Face him with hardship, with despair. Have him fight the good fight and find that a lot of what he did may have been completely useless. Have him reach a point where even for him the "hope" he wanted to convey seems like a big lie. Then have him grit his teeth, clench his fists, stand up and say that he doesn't care if he'll never make a difference, he's still going to keep fighting for what he knows is right. THAT is a hero that people will cheer for.
It always amuses me when people want to find subversions of Superman when the man's entire existence is the subversion.
Because he's so boring only way to make his character interesting is subversion like Injustice
@@somethingsomething9008 Did you watch the video?
People want Superman, the ideal we're supposed to strive for, to be more like us. They want 'a world where everyone aspires to be Harley Quinn' as one commenter put it. But Superman is meant to be the ultimate ideal, the ideal of being a truly good and just person. No one can fully live up to that ideal, but the idea is that everyone should try.
@@somethingsomething9008 how is he boring?
"It has been 3,000 years..."
?????: *_"Really? Coming from me I don't even know what number to come up with anymore as I don't really fit in with the quandaries of human concepts despite carrying the skin of one."_*
"Heroes don't struggle enough."
*Laughs in Peter Parker*
*Laughs even harder in Ultimate Peter Parker*
@@laststrike4411 that's an oof from me, boss.
*Laughs in Izuku Midoriya*
@@acrsclspdrcls1365 laughs in Naruto
*Laughs in guts from berserk*
One thing I hate about the media is they keep trying to get us to feel bad for them. But it doesnt matter what caused them to do what they have done. But what makes people great is when they are broken by the world but they get back up and they do the right thing even though they have every reason not to. Heros are what we strive to be not some petty villain who takes the easy path.
You have no right to judge someone for not wanting to continue a life that's making them and their loved ones suffer.
@@friedfrog5447 did you not just judge me
@@lightinthedarkness8849 Yeah, and way to try to distract from the point
@@friedfrog5447 I'm not. Your saying I shouldnt judge people. But that is a judgement in and of itself. So how can you say what I should or shouldnt do?
@@lightinthedarkness8849
I was basically saying "you don't know all the facts that went into their decision, any judgement you make is based on your own assumptions, and likely to be a flawed conclusion."
You then dump your original argument and turn it into whataboutism, which is the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue
The most striking aspect here is how these certain modern creatives are attracted to the struggle of villainous and amoral characters and just discard everything else. Literally everyone struggles in life. And just because you are currently a good, hardworking and moral person doesn't mean that you won't have to struggle every single day to stay that way with all the challenges life throws at you. Superman, if he's well written, is not above the struggle of course. But somehow there are people that brush him off as boring etc
And conversely it's the amoral and the villains who arguably struggle less internally, because they have given up on aspiring to be the best they can be. They often seem to be avoiding the struggle of trying to better themselves and instead inflict suffering on others to make themselves feel better. Like Loki trying to conquer earth because he is so power hungry and jealous of Thor, or the Joker spreading chaos and death because life dealthim a terrible lack of cards. Or also like snyder batman trying to kill superman for revenge and cpt marvel being petty and breaking a rude guy's hand.
Not that villains and antiheroes don't have their place, but they should never replace paragons of virtue and be idolized them. Villains and antiheroes are meant to be negative examples, warning signs of what not to do. Nobody is supposed to identify with villains who turn their suffering and struggles into hatred for others, we're supposed to believe in heroes who can bear any burden with dignity and always try to do the right thing.
When people say that Superman is irrelevant today I simply point to Action Comics #775 or "What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?" The animated movie adaptation, Superman versus The Elite, is good as well.
I feel like people need to learn to write Superman, then I think people would like him more.
Yeah, he's not the kind of character you simply pick up and write for. He usually takes a little more effort than most.
Literature Devil people think because he has all those powers that it makes him hard to write for. But the key is to focus on he “Man” rather than the “Super”. Show that despite not being from Earth, despite being a God among men that he is the most human. Show that despite his powers he can’t do everything, he can’t save everyone. Show him struggle with how much he should get involved because he’s afraid that if he ever oversteps his boundaries he might end up making people dependent on him that the would stop seeing him as a protector but as a conqueror or a deity to be worshipped.
Show him sparing with Diana. Have him talk with j'onn j'onzz and relate how they are both refugees from dead worlds. Have him and Bruce be each other as best friends, both admiring the others like in the Batman & Superman worlds finest books. Have him be a family man, confiding in Lois, being a Father to Jon, going to visit Ma and Pa and help on the farm. Have him be an inspiration to people by being good and helping people, not because he has a tragic backstory or he has a destiny but because that’s who he is, a good man with a kind heart that wants to help people.
@@LiteratureDevil "a little" more effort?
This was beautiful. Even as a 30 year old man I still regard animated series Batman as my role model. Obviously not the vigilante side of him, but his moral compass and his strength of will. If we don't want to improve or to strive for good... why do anything
The "Eternal Child" is what you get when you have a society that forsakes fathers. Work, Discipline, Emotional Maturity are virtues fathers are supposed to bring to their children but because of the "No excuse divorce law" Reagan brought about first in California, where these creators reside, it's the norm to be raised by a single parent, overwhelmingly the mother.
Snyder and the Women of Marvel remind me of the allegory of the crabs in the basket. You know, the one where the crabs are about to be boiled alive but they are all too busy making sure they all stay in the basket rather than work together to escape? Snyder and Co seem convinced that the world is a bleak, dark place and their comments show that they are more interested in dragging people down into the muck they wallow in rather than inspire people to change their situation for the better.
Personally, while I may sympathize with villains, I never aspire to be like any of them. They are the kind of people that have given in to their worse impulses, that see life as nothing more than a pungent swill devoid of color, that actively seek to break others and dragged them down to their level. If it's a choice between All-Star's view of Superman, who goes out of his way to even help his enemies, and Snyder's view of Superman (as far as the Q&A from which this video takes quotes from is concerned), who would kill his opponents without a second thought? Then I pick All-Star Superman every time. I pick the hope and determination for a better tomorrow over the hopelessness of a callous present.
EDIT: Just rewriting a line so people understand where I'm coming from.
Oh yeah, that's actually pretty accurate
Sorry but why would snyder's Superman murder you?
He never murdered any human
@@user-mx4is4fx3c Yeah, I could have worded that differently. I meant to imply that Snyder's Superman wouldn't care if any of us would live or die.
To clarify, I'm not talking about the Superman we got in the movies. I'm more talking about Synder's ideal version of Superman compared to the ideal version of Superman we got in the All-Star Comic. Although, given how Snyder continues to say that he wanted Superman to be darker and edgier in his cut of Justice League, I won't be surprised if we finally get his version of Superman on the screen. After all, he apparently wanted Lois to lose her life at the hands of Darkseid in his version of the movie and to have Superman become more like Darkseid as a result.
Ultimately, I'm given the impression, from Snyder's own words, that his Superman would be a "ends justifies the means" type of hero; one who wouldn't hesitate to kill or sacrifice others if it meant achieving his goals. And in that regard, Superman stops being Superman in my eyes and becomes a Superpowered Punisher.
But that's just my thoughts on the matter. Hopefully that all makes sense. =)
@@mykin3945 "krypton had its chance" "this is my world" "im the idiot that left but im back now" snyders superman sacraficed his life for the planet, and beat himself for dying! Clearly he cares for humanity
"The end justifies the means" what proof do you have of superman adopting this mentality in any dc movie?
@@mykin3945 You got it all wrong. Snyder said on multiple occasions that he wanted Superman to "earn his right to the suit". To become the fully realized hero he is destined to be through trial and error. Not immediately.
And as for Lois he would kill her yes. But only for a while. He planned for Bruce to go back in time and take the hit sacrificing himself as a redemption for his past behaviour. So this was just to create the nightmare alternate future BvS teased.
Superman is more relevant than he's ever been. FUN FACT: Superman becomes less popular and relevant as people get more comfortable and have less worries and their lives are "good". The darker times get, the more uncertain and divisive the times become; Superman, the man who never gives up, the man who always fights for principle and the greatest good becomes popular once again.
You know who kept DC in the black during the times when Superman wasn't so hot in the states? Eastern Bloc countries. They needed an unflagging hero, a man whom wherein the symbol and myth was basically the unvarnished truth.
People are comfortable as hell right now, but anyone with half a brain can see the shitstorm, political and ecological and logistic/economical that's coming in the next couple decades.
You can bet your ass people will be looking to the man in blue and red underpants to keep hope alive once again.
Won't really say people are comfortable as hell, there are some struggles here and there from the pandemic tbh
@@Jay9966 And how do you suppose people will feel when the next version of the virus starts making rounds and what few jobs were free and open this time around are fully 100% automated the next time, never mind any of the governments' fiscal and logistical cycles of mismanagement, and all the real estate paradigm we enjoy now is considerably smaller and more wealth oriented...
People have about thirty year memories at best, and popular culture reflects that in spades. For a symbol to last longer than that and still hold its core meaning intact, it better be some potent stuff.
Case in point.
@@TwoSevenX Well, maybe the vaccine is out by then, you don't know. Don't state it as if it's fact. As for automation, it has been happening for so long, new industries have always replaced old ones when automation takes over, at least from what I can tell.
Idk what made you take the leap from "comfortable as hell" to "humanity is doomed" but damn son you need superman in your life huh
Agreed. The Superman that we don't need is Snyder's version.
Superman, Batman, Luke Skywalker, Dr Who, Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, James Bond, Mulan, etc are all heroes that Hollywood, Disney, Marvel and DC are in the process of destroying because these 'creative' types no longer believe in heroism and cannot understand it.
@@michaeldavis2001 What the 'creatives' don't understand (or rather, can't understand) is that there are real people like that. Tank Man, a Tiananmen Square protester who stood in front of a line of tanks and kept moving to match their movements in order to save his fellow peaceful protestors. US Air Force and US Airways Captain Sully Sullenberger, the pilot who mustered up the courage to land what seemed to be an unlandable plane in order to save the lives of 155 people. My great-cousin, Second Lieutenant George Maduro of the Dutch Hussars, Knight-Fourth Class of the Military Order of William, Dutch Resistance fighter, and Shoah victim, who took a Nazi fort during the Battle of the Netherlands; once the country came under occupation, he swam out into dangerous waters in order to rescue downed (but still living) Allied pilots and smuggle them back to Britain; he also refused to wear the Star of David marking him as a Jew. In total, he was captured and brought to concentration camps three times. According to the story passed down by my family, their mad scientists tortured and killed him the third time in some twisted experiment.
The 'creatives' at Marvel and other companies try to destroy heroism because they look inside themselves and can't see heroism. Yet, you must only look at history to see that heroism is real. That compassion, courage, and the desire for freedom, are most definitely real. Stan Lee knew it. But modern 'creatives' are too busy looking at their own flaws to see the very-real virtues of others.
Thank you Literature Devil for this awesome analysis.
Simply put, you help restore my faith in humanity. I cannot put a value on that.
If you ever find yourself in a pinch, a bit of a hard spot, please reach out to me, and I will do all that I can to help you. I mean this sincerely.
Awesome! Very glad you enjoyed the video. And very glad you got something out of it!
One of the most ‘Superman’ things Superman has ever done,
Not when he fights monsters, not when he uses laser vision, not when he lifts cars,
But that time he kept Raven from killing herself and gave her a hug
I don’t think that was Raven, was it? 💀
@@peanutmurgler
ua-cam.com/video/0YTTPIJFhqE/v-deo.html
@@shiawasekappukekiful Ah, thought you were referring to All Star Superman
When you mentioned the whole revenge over justice thing, i was immediately reminded of a scene from Superman VS The Elite.
When Atomic Skull had killed a kid's dad before he was drained by Coldcast, Manchester Black was ready to kill him until Superman said otherwise. But the kid asked Manchester to "do it" ignoring Superman's protests and leading to Manchester killing Atomic Skull.
So the kid demanded revenge instead of settling for justice.
And then he beat them by showing what monsters they truly were with a mirror.
Revenge is justice.
@@zoltanz288 no it isn't. When someone gets what they deserve it's justice, when someone takes pleasure in making someone who wronged them suffer, it's revenge. It's a fine line, but a clear one.
@@zoltanz288 . its not even that satisfying after a few minutes
@@thefool8224 Speaking from experience?
A character can be deep and 3-dimensional while still being virtuous and optimistic.
Being "good" is a choice, and the best scenes in media are when being bad is the easy road and being good will seemingly not solve anything. If the hero chooses to kill the villain, his heroic status becomes tainted, and we see he is willing to compromise his principles for convenience.
If the hero chooses justice, the audience sees that no matter what, he will not bend to darkness. That no matter how evil the villain is, when given the chance, the hero will give them a chance to redeem themselves. And not many people can do something that Godly.
I think the reason why villains are more popular is this: heroes are seen as boring because we don't see them struggling with their morals and choosing the righteous path. No one knows how to write such a scenario these days.
Idk if it is just me. I get teary eyed when I see an example of what true heroism is. It's a beautiful thing to see what a good person can do. And what being good can be
"I'm Aizawa."
- LD
this line made my day lmao
I rather some villains acting like heroes sometimes than "realistic" heroes acting like villains and never trying to be better.
Ironically that not realistic
Ooooh... About 1 and a half hours. I’m gonna have to bookmark this for the train ride later. Looking forward to this.
Something that surprised me is that when you were discussing Superman's struggles, you didn't mention the famous World of Cardboard speech.
That whole speech is Superman venting at Darkseid (after praising Batman and Wonder Woman), saying how frustrating it is to have to be in perpetual control, perpetual restraint. And then being able to indulge just a little, by pummeling Darkseid with all his strength because "You can take it, can't you, big guy?".
That and the fight against Manchester Black and his crew. Just how utterly terrifying Superman if he buys into those impulsive indulgences. Even for a second. The FEAR you see coming from them as Superman gleefully explains that "I've finally bought what you've been selling!". Manchester is HORRIFIED at the idea that Superman is behaving like he was. Literally crawling and bawling on the ground "This isn't you! You're not like this!"
Superman calmly walks towards him and says "I am now."
Superman indulging in those villainous vices is something that inspires unrivaled fear in everyone. Not just heroes, not just villains, the world stops and holds its breath as it saw Superman fall from grace.
Brilliant. Well said. Plato's quote, "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light," rings so true; it's frightening how modern stories have become a case study on how many content creators are afraid of the light. I'm reminded of the words of Jesus Christ:
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
This may very well be one of my top favorite videos on UA-cam. Excellent work.
Just so you know, it looks like that quote is misattributed to Plato.
I find it funny how you quote Jesus on a channel called "Literature Devil"
When you said that the "heroes don't struggle" quote is nonsense: YESSSSS!!!!!!!! That's the whole point of a hero. To starlet, to overcome, to learn a lesson. No one is born a hero, but they choose to become one. They choose to overcome pain, overcome the temptation for revenge, overcome the temptation to break and choose to move forward and be optimistic instead. A journey to become mentally strong. Strong enough to do what's right. That's what a hero is. Thank you!!!!!!!!! "It is a hero who makes itself worthy of power."
Idea for updated Superman story: Kids are doing increasingly dangerous things on youtube/tiktok/etc where Superman is forced to save them. This causes their views to spike because 'omg superman is on my channel'. Hence the risky behaviours escalate and Superman must find a way to put a stop to it.
And livewire is going around encouraging them to do dumb shit.
You got that from Robot Chicken, didn't you?
That'a actually an excellent idea, and an excellent dilemma. Even the pragmatic response of simply announcing that you'll no longer be saving the bad actors who deliberately endanger themselves isn't feasible, because of the risk that he might fail to rescue someone who is faultlessly at risk. He would probably have to ask the government itself to impose penalties on such behavior similar to false 911 calls.
That'd make a GREAT one-shot comic, dude send in your application and have DC hire you...
Red Son (elseworlds Superman landed in the USSR rather than USA) has Superman at one point reflecting on the fact that people in his part of the world (Lex Luthor runs the USA) don't bother to wear seatbelts.
It all comes down to laziness. Remember when every superhero movie wanted to be dark knight? But instead of taking the core of the movie. Being "its easy to be a hero until adversity strikes".
Or in other words "you either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villian".
But thats not what hollywood elites saw. The only thing they saw was "a realistic, grounded take on super heroes", "non linear story telling", "dark depressing tone". While in reality the dark knight might be one of the most uplifting super hero film ever created.
"Hi, I'm a good guy and I understand what you're doing. I've felt those impulses. But who's the stronger person: the one who falls to their urges or the one who conquers themselves? Some might see it as the person who walks away from this fight, however battered, broken, and bleeding. But I'd rather lose this than have my character found pulverized under the weight of what I know."
What's funny is that the *facade* of Superman is as real as anything. Just because it doesn't exist yet or cannot be seen does not mean it is nonexistent. An idea alone is enough to make something real, even if just to one person.
As a Man who's favorite character is Guts who is more of a character who focuses on Optimistic realism. I think that is more necessary then pure optimism
When guts realise that he finally found a family and that he could restart on believing that there's hope... 😢
Wrestling Anime 4life
And when he realized he cares more about Casca than he does getting revenge
@@GigaChadh976 that was beautiful man
Guts is a character who once thought to shed weakness he had to shed his humanity and obtain revenge, but instead found his strength in his humanity, and found something to protect instead of hunting something to destory.
@@nickelakon5369 Humanity unfortunately doesn't apply for Snyder.
I keep hearing how BvS is about rediscovering humanity... But i didn't see that,especially after reading Kingdom Come
Women of Marvel ... We Like the Bad Boys, Good Guys Finish Last
Pretty accurate lol
Well... what about "Aggressively Nice"?! That's the best of both worlds!
@@misterdewott8766 "GARY! YOU WILL EAT YOUR DESSERT! AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!"
@@misterdewott8766 I just think of male feminists and their devious nature with a description like that. Funny thing is, they do fall for that too.
In 10 years or so, the Women of Marvel are going to change their tune from "Good Guys Finish Last" to "Where have all the Good Men gone?"...
struggles of superman: knowing that while he looks like many others on earth he is not a human, he is an alien who if he was found and labeled as such by the world before he had a chance to prove himself as a person would be as much an outsider as anyone. That even while he is now beloved there is always the persistent chance that this single trait could be turned on him to make him the other and force him away.
The desire for normality. Superman has shown time and time again that all he wishes is to be able to settle down have a family and just be a person, but because he takes responsibility with his power he can't ever have a truly normal life.
The desire for his culture and past. He's a man who had his history torn away from him and has only been able to know a tiny shred of that world. Even when he finds other parts of it because he had to grow up away from it he never gets to really feel like he's part of his culture.
The struggle to balance justice, morality, legality, and emotion. Injustice was already shown in the video as an example and its by far the easiest one.
The struggle to balance power in general. It's been shown that supermans powers dont turn off. He has them on all the time and has trained his whole life to keep them undercontrol so that when he hugs someone he doesnt instantly crush them or that if he were to take a deep breath not to freeze something or to not accidentally fly when he just jumps. One of his worst nightmares is losing control of that power.
the self-imposed burden of responsibility. Superman is the strongest hero in the world and as a personal flaw often will make it that its all down to him to save the world. He has to be responsible for everything. Which holy crap if you've ever been in charge in a really rough situation and you have to manage all that pressure this is possibly his most relatable trait.
I can keep going but I have my own stories to work on with heroes who are actually heroes so I'm gonna get back to those.
Hey! May I have look at your stories? I'm curious.
As someone who never cared much for Superman or DC, I greatly enjoyed this video. Good work, I feel more people could stand to understand this aspect of heroism better.
I do like villains, but for different reasons. I look at them like they could become a hero, or at least go back to being a civilian with just a push in the right direction, one hero being friendly enough to sit down and talk for a bit rather than punching the problem away. I realize there are some just evil, unredeemable characters out there, but check out sandman in the ultimate spiderman cartoon.
Exactly. That's how it used to be. If you check out why people used to like anti-heroes and villains - it's usually tied to their noble traits and the fantasy that they'd eventually become heroes. Not so much any more lol
Reminds me a bit of The Flash in the Justice League Unlimited when he interacts with The Trickster. You can tell he really does care about the villians he fights.
@@conorhopper One of the best Flash moments ever, the DCAU really nailed it with the characterizations.
One of my favorite examples of exactly that: The Riddler. His criminal career stems mostly from a traumatic childhood of abuse and a compulsion to prove he's smart by leaving obvious clues to the world's greatest detective so that if he eventually gets away with a robbery despite telling the hero exactly what he's doing, he'll prove he's just that much smarter. Batman appeals to his intelligence and rational thought by making him demonstrate that he _can't_ will himself to _not_ leave a clue, that he lacks the fortitude; in response, Edwyn seeks out valid psychiatric help and becomes a hero for a time, applying that same cunning to the forces of good which he had once only to stealing money for the bragging rights. (I don't read comics enough to know if this actually stuck for any considerable time.)
Another DC example: In some alternate universes where Batman was a villain, the man who normally becomes Joker responds to his trauma by becoming a heroic Red Hood.
I agree 100℅! The appeal of the villains is that they can redeem themselves if they'll mature. The villain = failed, immature hero/human being. They're relatable, but in no way are role models.
I always saw The story of Superman as a love story, not between Clark and Lois or Clark and Lana. The story of Superman is a love story between Clark Kent and The Planet Earth. It's about a poor alien being accepted and loved by a small little planet and that alien returning that love onto the world. It's not about vigilantism, punching things, or destroying cities. It's about a simple man with gifts giving back to the planet that loved him when he had nobody else. The character isn't overly angsty or flawed like Batman but he also isn't incredibly capable in every situation and he didn't need his loved ones to die right in front of him in order to learn how to use his gifts. I believe that he's one of the more relatable heroes because ultimately he's just a nice guy that wants to do the right thing. And I would like to imagine that if the average Joe were given Superman’s abilities he'd try and be a hero. But idk that's just my dumb brain
I love how the internet has caught-onto the Concept of constructive Criticism Essays, so thats the simple reason why i comment this to you. No reason, no being-a-Bot,
just good-old-fashioned Drive to share Fun and Knowledge,
driving me to say:
If you like Constructive-Criticism-Essays, try the videos of Madvocate, Jay Exci, and Hbomberguy, especially those about Shows and Books. Oh, and Krimson Rogue.
But enough of me 'speaking in General', so let me say something more video-specific now:
'Heroes dont Struggle' is of course a very broken Mindset of Todays World. The idea that the world is so hard
that all Hope is lost. No, hope aint lost, we just need to embrace
grounded, good Coverage of Problems. Like UA-camrs who really tackle Issues (whatever
it's Crops or Wars or the GOP), like Knowing Better, Illuminaughtii, Some More News,
and Real-Life Lore.
I bet if you were given Superman's powers you would try to do good!
I just saw All Star Superman on
HBO MAX and I was not dissapointed. I was amazed that Supermans kindness and sacrifice lead to Luthor understanding his mistakes and accept his death as Superman fixes the sun. I was hoping that Superman would narrate the ending and say goodbye as the movie ends.
Or Luthor narrating the end by saying that Superman has bested him by showing him that it's not the powers or smarts that make us super. It's how we use them.
It's like heroes serve as a role-model to emulate and their traits as goals to achieve, but they're so hard to achieve that it makes people feel bad... so instead of trying harder or trying again, they redefine what a true hero is for the sake of expedience.
EDIT: I reached 1:11:20 and realized i just parroted what he said 20 minutes earlier. Whopee
You understood it perfectly.
@@pasalasaga ...I love how the Internet caught-onto the Concept of constructive Criticism Essays, so thats the simple reason why i comment this to you. No reason, no being-a-Bot,
just good-old-fashioned Drive to share Fun and Knowledge,
driving me to say:
If you like Criticism-Essays, try the videos of Madvocate, Jay Exci, and Hbomberguy, especially those about Shows and Books.
But enough of me 'speaking in General', so let me say something more video-specific now:
'Heroes dont Struggle' is of course a very broken Mindset of Todays World. The idea that the world is so hard
that all Hope is lost. No, hope aint lost, we just need to embrace
grounded, good Coverage of Problems. Like UA-camrs who really tackle Issues (whatever
its Crops or Wars or Bias or the GOP), like Illuminaughtiii, Some More News,
and Real-Life-Lore.
They keep you Updated and thats worth so much, showing that wwe can totally tackle Problems head-on...
@@loturzelrestaurant What are you talking about? I knew that we need hope to become better.
@@pasalasaga Well, then my comment is quite literally right-for-you.
@@pasalasaga I hope the channel i cited will entertain you with their funny and informative Ways If you like LIteralture-Devil, they should be right for yoo.
“Villains succumb. Heroes overcome.”
As the greatest hero, superman has the MOST to overcome. That’s why his morals are the purest (psychological obstacles) and he has the deadliest villains (physical obstacles). Doomsday constantly resurrects stronger than before, so superman must go beyond his limits over and over again. Zod is a dark mirror of Superman. Brainiac is one of the smartest entities in the universe. Darkseid is the embodiment of evil itself and superman faces his head-on.
Readers are meant to see superman struggle against the impossible and be inspired to face our own infinitely easier problems with the same heroism.
I've never thought Superman was the greatest
“Villains succumb. Heroes overcome.” That's just wrong on so many levels. To bring up a simple example: Thanos sacrifices everything he holds dear to achieve what he perceives to be the best for the world. That doesn't change the fact that he kills off half the universe. Now, suppose that there is... say... a cop, yeah, that should work out. So, his partner gets killed, he becomes an emotional wreck because of that and resigns, wishing to live out the rest of his life quietly somewhere. Well, that doesn't sound like a particularly proactive villain, even though he had clearly succumbed to grief.
A writer's job is to learn how to twist things. To twist them, you have to understand them. If you manage to do that, you can turn heroic sacrifice into a fascist government casually sending their soldiers into the grinder (taking their sacrifice for granted), or pride into self-worth. There is a reason why in FMA: Brotherhood, Truth called the seven homunculi Father's seven desires, they were neither innately evil nor good.
@@pmester228 Thanos is still succumbing though? Like he is working hard but still ending countless lives for his theoretical utopia. With all the power of the infinity gauntlet it is really hard to believe that there is no other way to achieve such a universe, it is just harder.
@@pmester228 You have a point about authors twisting the story but I don't think it is fully one way or the other. There are absolute truths to consider as well as things up to interpretation.
@@joelsasmad My whole point was that context can change things around. What are you trying to say? As for Thanos, what matters is that they had deliberatelly written him like a hero, and some people unironically think he is one.
I think it’s more interesting (and harder) to write a morally righteous character having to deal with immoral and catastrophic situation. A trickster character will find the way around the problem, a morally ambiguous character will violence their way through it. A morally righteous character has the inner struggle, what is right here? Is there a right? Am I staying true to me if I choose this? This is Superman’s constant struggle.
Superman perceives right and wrong on another level because he is not a mortal man and he has all power. He understands that his choice has more power than anyone else’s. This is interesting. That’s why Lex Luthor is the perfect villain for him (and the perfect villain in general to me), Luthor is the pinnacle of human power. He has it all, he stands above all and then we have Superman who goes even above him... I’ve made this long enough, I could go on for days. Great stuff. I’ve always loved Superman.
Oh, and Clark Kent isn’t Superman mocking humanity. Clark Kent is Superman embracing HIS humanity.
The problem with writing a morally righteous character having to deal with immoral and catastrophic situations is that, if they consistently find some way to pull out ahead of it, with minimal costs, without compromising that righteousness, eventually it just starts to stress the willing suspension of disbelief. The reality is that being good doesn't guarantee you will be given a "third way" in moral dilemmas. Sometimes the only options you have in the moment to save lives involve sacrificing your principles. It's nice to celebrate the hero that can save the day, time after time, and still be a paragon, but it starts to feel increasingly detached from reality over time. There's a term, "The plausible impossible" I believe it's becoming the case for more people today that uncompromisingly moral heroes consistently getting their way *isn't* plausible. And it becomes more difficult to ignore the longer we are occupied with following just one hero. Conversely, those who have no problem with it, I have found, tend to be so wrapped up in their belief of the physical unconquerability of good that they fail to grasp how powerful, and how much of a threat, evil can actually be, even as it presses its boot on their neck.
Balgan Hyrede sure, I can see that. But I’ve loved Superman now for 20+ years (man, I’m old), and he’s still interesting. Now, there are some Superman stories that I don’t care for, and there are other stories that I absolutely love, which I’ve read and re-read a million times over. No other character has kept me a fan for so long. Spider-Man, Batman, Green Lantern and so on. I’ve read many of them and I’ve loved many of their stories but none have kept me coming back as much as Superman. Why? Because at the end of the day Superman remains a hero, immovable, comforting, and powerful. Consistency keeps me coming back. Maybe I’m old school?
Well said
I love this comment.
@@balganhyrede8735 superman does realize that he theres isnt always a third way out, in superman confidential, he says that you have a beautiful evening planned with the women you love, but if you go on that date, a village in africa will be slaughtered, an active volcano on an island in haiti will kill its residents or that a tsunami will wash away a city on the coast of asia, he knows that he cant save everyone and that if he chooses to save one, the other will die and he cant decide either since there is no time to think and only time for action, he has to live with that everyday, in an issue of superman son of kal-el, jonathan kent( supes' son) literally collapses since he was just helping people non stop for days on end without any breaks and after waking up he finally realises that he cant do it, that he has limits and he much like his father cant save everyone all the time, this was shown again in action comics where he is literally overwhelmed by his senses cuz people were screaming for help across the world, he cannot save everyone even in catastrophic situations, he can try but he will fail mostly, this is very evident in his comics, even in his warworld arc, he struggles to save so many people as mongul was just slaughtering everyone, he does realize that and somehow has come to terms with that, he has also been faced with situations where its absolutely necessary to kill but he wont do it, he always prefers to give them a second chance even after so much because of which people have died but he is still unyielding in following his principles which i admit does counteract the fact that he wants to save lives and which is a flaw in his character but its also a very good thing as well, many of the people he fights(normal ones) do want to improve and even some of the superpowered ones want to improve, like parastie, clayface, killer frost, reverse flash (new52) etc which leads to them saving even more lives and being allies to the hero world as well as being extremely helpful in world ending events, also superman usually never faces worldending battles alone and is always with the league but i understand your apprehension
This video is making me see how important Superman can be today.
The fact that he's exists as a counter argument to the villain embracement of the modern world.
Those women of marvel sound like all the negative stereotype that some people have about women.
I bet they are Karens as well, lol.
Hate to say it, but judging by their names, they're all diversity hires.
@@TheDapperDragon Yes. And that translates to skin colour and sexual taste rather than talent.
No wonder modern comics are dying.
And they will fiddle as Rome burns!
Did you even listen to the podcast?
yeah they are
some even have the hircut
they truly are I honestly doubt they love the franchise they deal with daily :/
The greatest tragedy about snyder's quote about living in a f-ing dream world , whatever he realized it or not, has been responded by superman in 'superman vs the elite.
"Good. Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting. Ever." -Superman
It's pretty funny
Yet you forget that this superman needs to be made, a superman who wants peace and dreams to such extent has to know all failures in the world to understand the burden of it.. And Snyder did just that.
@@debadityabhowmik6533, Superman is an aspirational archetype. His time in Smallville is what molded him to be who he is. He doesn't need to go through tragedy and kill people to understand what is right. I don't think WE need to kill people to understand what is right. And above all else, Superman is not a tragic character. Like the video said, he doesn't live the lie of Superman like Snyder made it: he enjoys being Superman and helping people. It's not that complicated. That's why his Superman didn't resonate with people. I like Snyder, but he is not suited to work with these types of characters. Anti-heroes are more his lane and that's fine.
@@debadityabhowmik6533 how? Unless JL gives him a better arc as it stands his Superman feels very odd
And as long as people continue to share that dream with the Man of Tomorrow and strive to improve the world in some way, Superman will be relevant until the end.
The irony is that while the "Women of Marvel" were talking about how much better villains are, their company was making movies which replicate the ideals of Superman. Two of the main cornerstones of the MCU were, for all practical purposes, Superman-esque characters: Captain America and Iron Man.
Captain America, the moral center of the MCU. The man who would never give in and always looks for justice. You could almost state he's the paragon of Plato's virtues (though, his temperance may be called into question at times). Iron Man, the every man who possesses none of those virtues but grows to exemplify all of them. While they claim that our modern sensibilities no longer believe in such heroes, they create those exact heroes in their movies and those heroes are wildly popular.
Who was not thrilled to see Captain America take up Mjolnir to fight Thanos or to call the Avengers to battle. Who did not shed tears to see Iron Man sacrifice himself for the good of all, using his mental discipline to wield the Infinity Stones to end the threat of Thanos.
Yet, if the "Women of Marvel" are to be believed, Thanos is more relatable.
Thanos's plan of "kill half of everyone, the universe is overpopulated because poverty exists" is something only a crazy person could believe...and look at how popular this has been on exactly one political side in first world nations for the past century, as our large "overly dense" population continues providing intelligent and hardworking innovators who make life _easier_ for every subsequent generation than the one to precede it!
People with evil souls cannot look into a mirror without seeing the abyss behind their eyes. Superheroes like Superman are a mirror showing them their own black hearts.
Funny enough, Iron Man is a good example of a "villain" who changed his views to become a good hero.
@@RoninCatholic I think his motivation was driven by overpopulation and dwindling resources.
@@randomduck8679 Except of course that overpopulation on Earth-wide scale is a myth (poverty exists rampant in some dense population centers but it's not that there aren't enough resources around) perpetuated by people who want an excuse to enact either eugenics programs or genocide. Every single catastrophic overpopulation projection has been found laughably false, and of course the more people we have, the more brains there are to get a brilliant idea that saves billions of lives through an innovation in efficiency or productivity; an actual unbiased killing of half of everyone has exactly as much chance of killing someone with such an idea to contribute as it does to a leech who contributes nothing and drains resources from others.
And if you do kill half of everyone randomly? Congrats, a lot of the survivors are people who were relying directly on someone you killed for support, so you just killed _more than_ half of everyone. Your snap of the fingers turning a pregnant woman to dust but "sparing" an unborn child who isn't viable outside the womb? Again, killed _more than_ half of everyone. Killed the driver of a car or the pilot of an aircraft but left the passengers alive? Congrats, you just killed way more than half of the people. You'd need to be making very careful, selective judgements to even "merely" kill half of all the people in the universe, and that would leave huge amounts of unmanned infrastructure, and who is some dickweed like Thanos to make such a judgement?
Thanos's plan only holds up for even five minutes if you're a sheltered academic of the sort who thinks Karl Marx had something valuable to say. His "motivation" might have stemmed from watching a singular, decadent society consume its way to near extinction (if you even buy that he's a reliable narrator) but he then decided to try to apply that to the universe as a whole, which is full of untapped resources, because he is intellectually lazy and has already resigned himself to the idea that himself acting as some sort of god of judgement and murdering billions or even trillions of sapient lives (depending on how many populated worlds there are and how their population density fares compared to Earth) for "the greater good". You know that phrase about the path to Hell being paved with good intentions? It's because delusional egomaniacs believe they have the right to do what's wrong so long as it ultimately brings about _their_ vision of a better universe.
There's no hints that maybe resources are dwindling on any worlds other than Thanos's home planet in any of the movies I've seen. I dare say he just can't think past his own self interest, and his self-deluded belief that he'd be lauded as a hero for what he did is only more baffling.
This is the first time I've agreed with someone's breakdown of Zacks Superman and how it isn't Superman.
Everyone I've listened to seemed to come from a bad place but this was the way I needed to hear it. I always felt unsettled at the conversation Clark had with Jonathan's ghost on the mountain, but I never could figure out why.
It's like he goes to the highest point, heaven if you will, to enlightenment to get advice and his father just says keep the lie. Because Johnathan never conquered his demons of the flood , Martha just put him to sleep. And similarly by making Lois his world (which is normally fine), in this context Clark makes the lie of the "farmers dream " his mission.
Which is why he falls in Zacks JL nightmare vision when she dies. His world is held up by a lie...Jesus I never realized how bad these writers have gotten, they have warped our stories to very nihilistic or dark point.
And here I thought Zack was different.
Superman fell when Lois died not because his world is held up by a lie. It's Darkseid taking advantage of Superman's momentary depression with the anti-life equation.
This is why I shake my head when my friends tell me how much they hate Superman and talk about how much they love the gritty antihero and want to be like them, or want Superman to be more like them. That's not inspiring. That's depressing. We already have more than enough depressing stuff. We need heroes like Superman and Deku now more than ever.