Four AUTO-INCLUDE Space Marine Units? Quietly Winning the Game with Victory Points...
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- Let's talk through the strong space marine objective support units and why tournament lists are making use of these guys quite so often!
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0:00 Intro
1:49 Lieutenant with Combi Weapon
5:39 Scout Squad
8:30 Inceptors
11:23 Infiltrators
14:29 Closing Thoughts
15:48 Outro - Ігри
The oldest adage of boys win fights and gretchin win games usually holds true in most armies in 40k
Sticky objectives on intercessors are just really good.
i auto include 1 small squad for this. taking the obj behind a term squad so it can stay on my side without having to babysit.
They just don't do enough for their points imo
Agreed, and how do people think an msu is too expensive for points generated? They can and have scored me points on every single turn. How is that not worth it? If they do get smoked off an objective, well, that's that much less pew pew going into my good units.
Don't forget cheap mortal wounds from the grenade strategem they get
As a White Scar player I have to ask about my main unit: Outriders. They're great. 95 points for three guys that can't take a power weapon/fist and no special weapons. Really great stuff!
Heirloomification of weapon options makes the game more approachable for new players! Have a heart! 😢😢😢 What do you mean you don't want to sacrifice mechanical depth on the altar of infinite growth??? 😮😮😮
I've gotten better killing power and durability out of vanilla Assault Intercessors than I have with Outriders. They desperately need some kind of buff considering they've got for a whole detachment dedicated to them.
I just wish more units had a special unit for their chapter like hounds of morkai. WS outrides that get -1 to hit after they advance or +1 to wounds or hit after charge. Something that’s flavorful and makes the units better.
@@ZARECO1 or at least a bike captain or storm seer librarian that gives their unit those things. Mainly I think the twin bolt rifles should have the assault keyword and chainswords should have lance, considering they're front mounted bolt rifles on a speed bike and a chainsword that are swung at like 100mph.
Who need that when you have speed
Inceptors are amazing. Drop anywhere, have the firepower to take the objective, and the durability to keep it.
Id also recommend Incusors for their +1 to hit army wide on a unit they hit, 6 inch scout ability and their main weapon ignores cover. Could be very beneficial for units with overall bad hit dice
Add in a phobos lieutenant and dump them into an impulsor; drive up, pop out, shoot stuff, hop back in and shoot again
@@Rexir2 took me a second to figure how how that'd work, but its not a horrible idea.
I have all of these in varying degrees in my Vanguard Spearhead list. And yes, I have the Phobos Librarian combo. It makes me happy. =)
Your videos have been insanely helpful as a returning SM player
Intercessors. Sticky objectives is really good and their bolt rifles are not bad into lighter infantry
Just finished painting up all my Inceptors, 6 Plasma and 6 bolter. Definitely a pain to do all of them, but they do great in the game. I just wish the Scouts were available already.
Ditto. 6 heavy bolters with strikes from the shadows is intense.
Very cool list but consider: 3 Land Raiders
I don't play marines myself, but I am planning on triple Land Fortress so I can definately see the appeal.
Looking at it again, a Land Fortress is basically just a Land Raider with the ability of a Razorback.
Consider 3 Brutalis dreadnoughts to back them up
I like to drop brutalist off up close via storm Raven for Overwatch
I would say standard Intercessor still underrated af
Yesterday I was playing against Eldar and they were able to push all the way to their home field with 7 models remaining, on their way they also sniped a lone Farseer on the mid objective
like in a 5 or a 10 model unit? Every game ive played with and/or against intercessors they are easily the worse unit for battleline if not the entire codex, they cant do anything and die just immediately.
@@archonwut1624it’s mainly their versatility, and home field defence
Also like I did, you can use them for offence with some good character attachments, ranging from lieutenants to captains to named characters
@@AutisticDumplingMan there will almost always be units other than the Intercessors who want to be getting that character buff more often than not. In my play group we have a lot of players running Damage 2 weapons, including myself, and 3+ save on 2 wounds just isn't super strong when you can no longer get to a 2+ in cover.
In the right situation I'm sure they're great, I personally take a squad to sticky my home objective every game and screen out my back field, but playing them for their damage is very much not something I'd recommend.
@@campfire_minis sadly I’m poor and have 4 10 man Intercessor squads lying around
@@AutisticDumplingMan I'm happy you are finding success with them. I feel like i get everything that any number of intercessor have and a lot more just from using 2 5-man units of scouts, even offensively or on defense the scouts are just better imho.
i kind of want to make an all lieutenant list. i think it can be done.
It can, actually. 15 of them fill out a 1,000 or 1,250 point list comfortably... Though you're going to need to dig into another rank to get to 2k. We dug into this idea at my local GW store this past weekend.
My main damage dealers thus far in the Ironstorm detachment for the last few games have been a Tech Marine, combined with a Ballistus dreadnought and a Repulsor executioner. Throw "Mercy is weakness" on the Repulsor every round and watch your enemies Disappear. Especially when combined with the oath target.
Last game I played against my buddy's Nids, I rolled a five and a six to hit with the main cannon on his tyrannifex. The end result being 4 wounds that he did not save for a total damage of 25.
He was simultaneously pissed off and excited as he helped me build the list.
Another phenomenal combination is a redeemer land Raider filled with assault Terminators equipped with dual lightning claws and a Terminator chaplain.
This combination provides an extremely brutal Strike Force with a massive threat range in the early game.
I would love to see a video series on the best scoring units for the different armies. Great video.
Screening is something I definitely gotta get better at, my friend usually pulls off the 3" inceptors against my CSM lol
It's hard to screen against lol
I recommend Traitor Guardsmen, Cultists, or Nurglings. But the 3" deep strike is hard to defend against.
@@Lomhow yea cultist I try to spread them out normally and attempt to move onto another objective lol, nurglings I’ll usually have them infiltrate on a side objective, I haven’t felt like there’s been a time I should deep strike them though I’ve only been going against either space marines or thousand sons
I know it’s not as good but I’ve added a unit of Inquisitorial Henchmen and an Inquisitor to my army for holding the home objective. The Mystic has the same 12” bubble as Infiltrators, the Daemonhost gives the whole unit a 5+ invulnerable, and even one Acolyte makes the whole squad -1 to wound. I personally use Inquisitor Coteaz, who has a 2+ gain cp when your opponent does, cuz I like him and it fits my army but even the regular Inquisitor has the Infiltrator’s CP farming ability.
I haven’t gotten to try it in a proper game yet but for 145 points it doesn’t feel too bad. The only thing I wish the unit had is the “can’t be shot outside of 12 inches rule” but it is what it is.
Put Draxus in that unit for 5/6 chance of no shooting at them outside of 18".
Coteaz is a great option for any imperial army that can’t otherwise farm CP efficiently. He’s earned auto include status from me, where Coteaz and his henchmen have become my default sit on the home field objective unit.
Love matching Von Ryans against that combi weapon lieutenant
Combi Weapon Lt with Veteran of the Shadow War (Raven Guard enhancement) is basically a better Callidus. It's insane
I don't know if it is strictly better. It *does* maintain theme a little better, and Calli's pop and drop for free is nice
Bring em both for maximum fun
@@sirkelendor5429
Totally. The Meme Team is the DeathWatch leader who does it too
@@czigtema1 just make three strategems cost one more cp. Or use all three at once
main reason combi is better is because he can sabotage and sticky objectives... callidus is not adeptus astartes so can't use "A Deadly Prize" stratagem.
Honorable mention to the Callidus Assassin
Would the combi Lieutenant be better?
They are both good@@ThatGuy-bh9qh
@@ThatGuy-bh9qhcombi lt is better IF your running vanguard sm and give him the shadow war veteran enhancement
Leitenant can make some disgusting combo, pair him up with Lion and they both going to have lone operatives
I can make myself to buy more scouts. I have 30 snipers and 20 melee ones. I would sooner rebase some of them , then buy the same unit only as primaris all over again.
What is the base size on the new ones?
@@jakubmizerski5685standard 40 i assume
@@jakubmizerski5685 I am guessing 28mm
Okay I’ve been wondering this for a while but do you ever sleep???😂 the amount of videos you put out is incredible!
Can you use any lieutenant modell ? Or just the one from the big box?
Would be interesting to make a list of the competetive units in 1,000p games and 48x48 tables. I think all will be still high. I find Ballistus Dred versatile at 140p
There isn't nearly enough available data on non-standard competitive performance, so it would be mostly speculation.
I second that. As a new player to have a list can help get figures that can be a starter
I never thought plasma inceptors could get better than they were in 9th but in 10th they're just straight up bonkers.
Decent movement with 10", T6 3 Wounds is nice durability and they're plasma shits are just ludicrously good.
Reroll wounds going away should have just been adjusted to reroll 1’s to wound. Would have been a more balanced adjustment than just making most marine weapons going back on the shelf.
Where can I get Scout Squads? I cant find them and the Killteam box that includes them comes out in 2024 I think.
This may be old news, but they go on pre-order Saturday 17/02/24.
I've been contemplating 10 Infiltrators with the Combat Patrol Phobos Lieutenant, just to get their gun's special ability back.
I would usually never use most characters on infaltraters. But they are nice on their own
Combi LT in Vanguard is annoying as hell with execute and redeploy enhancement. You can move, shoot, move again and if anything gets close move again on the opponents turn. You can kite berserkers pretty hilariously
Newbie question here: If Spashe Mah-rines are foighting Spashe Mah-rines, and Inceptors want to gun for an Infiltrator unit, whitch rules takes precedence, and why?
Found it in the rules commentary: For reinforcement placing, negation takes precedence, so no Meteoric Alpha-Legio-I-Mean-Strike. For attacks, attacker's rules beat defenders.
very interesting.
thanks
Tall space dwarfs and kankle marines, got it.
It might be worth taking a 10-man Infiltrator squad if you intend to support them with multiple Invictus warsuits.
Only problem is most opponents(in my experience) focus the invictor because incediums are scary for overwatch
Playing the vanguard detachment you dont need the war suits and id argue those warsuits arent built for war in any way as there limited firepower makes them useless against anything but light infantry mobs. I ask you, when was the last time you saw any of those? I never see mob swarms, every player i face asks the same question about their list, Can it kill Space Marines? And they build to do just that.
I use light infantry tactics and support them by fire. i have one 10 man squad of infiltrators lead by a phobos LT and CPT. Target them for free and on a 5+ get more cp, lethal hits, redeploy phobos units (which you can sike out a good bit of people with at the start by deploying them aggressively and then pulling them back), and i can trap an objective for free then leave it on my opponents turn because the trap makes it sticky and go somewhere else.
i send a full squad of bladeguard to the center with a justiciar turn one because of the blade driven deep enhancement and put a 10 man hellblaster squad with an apothecary to shoot over there shoulders which means i control center until at least T3 if not the whole game
I have a repulsor executioner with laser destroyer and a ballistus dread that sit back and melt vehicles with a techmarine
Eliminator squad with 3 las fusils as even more anti vehicle, a devastator squad with lasconnons and a librarian to give them 4+ invuls, 10 man Intercessors lead by a Cpt, and a 5 man heavy intercessor squad to hold home objective
This list paired with this detachment is a power house, i played against a vehicle spam SM killforce of Druhkari that melted my vehicles turn 1 with 27 lasconnon equivalents. So i gave him hell for the rest of the game with nothing but infantry and brought what should have been a massive loss to an 11 point difference 70/ 81. he had nothing left and i was able to score all of my secondary's. of his 27 lasconnons at start he had 6 left, that 10 man infiltrator squad killed 3 vehicles, a 10 man infantry squad and his warlord, by themselves.
If you take any serious amount of infantry Vanguard is the only detachment to play and plan on winning a game. Take a few phobos units and then do whatever else you want but this is the only viable option for infantry lists after oath got cut at the knees
Isnt the lieutenant ability only within 6" only?
In the index, yes, but the codex made it army wide.
Not so sure the combi weapon lt is worthwhile over an assassin or another 5man squad of marines
Please can someone help me, I’m new to the game
I wanna know the difference and how it works between lethal hits and devastating wounds
So lethal hits im guessing for the number of hits you get on a +6 you automatically wound
And devastating wounds you have to do your hit rolls first then whatever you have left for wound rolls you then roll and for every +6 you roll you do the damage of your weapon automatically on your opponent
However am I wrong that if you have a character that has FEEL NO PAIN can they still use that against these
Also on the lethal hits when it automatically wounds does it just course 1 wound or does it still course the damage on the weapon like devastating wounds does
Also if I have this completely wrong I’d really really appreciate if someone can help me understand thanks
I'll try and answer your questions. First feel no pains saving throws do work against devastating wounds cause all devastating wounds does is not allow you to have a saving throws against critical wounds (6s to wound), feel no pains saves are not armor saving throws. Think about it like this critical wound automatically does it damage to it target and there is nothing you can do about that but feel no pains work when damage is dealt so there is no conflict in the rules. If damage is dealt you get a feel no pain save.
Second lethal hits weapons do their assign damage charactistic not 1. If you have a weapon that has a damage value of 2 and it activate lethal hits the damage value is still 2.
Hope that helps mate. Welcome to warhammer.
@@BenChard-qw4hj thank you I really appreciate the time and effort you took to write that, it helps me a lot, and thank you I’m excited at beginning my journey
Just to make it clear, for lethal hits, your opponent still have normal saving throw. On 6s for hit, you don’t need to make the wound roll. It doesn’t automatically damages, but wounds.
Scouts seriously undercosted.
That will change once enough boxes have been sold.
Just some competitive guys being auto-include dudes
Weeeee more Space Marine posts.
I don't own any of these, and they're not the models I would've selected for the rule of cool.
Intercessors sticky is one of the best skills to have. Claim your home objective and then go and try to claim others. They do make that difference
That doesn’t help much in my local meta with lots of deep strike options who will simply steal your home objective if left undefended. Sticky is nice in case you get shot off it forcing them to commit to going there but doesn’t really help much in holding it unattended
Usually I'll keep them on the homefield until turn 4 after all their deep strike is deployed and I know they won't take my homefield objective, sometimes sooner if I'm against a slow army with no deep strike or they deploy everything turn 2.
I play Marines and i have... (checks notes) ...yeah, none of these.... great
Lieutenant is super-inexpensive on [generic internet auction site], I just picked one up for my Dangles... not that I've updated my lists for 10th... but I might one day.
Same honestly
My hot take is I don’t love infiltrators. The others I totally agree with, but I find infiltrators very matchup dependant. Most games I think their ability won’t even come into play, and then you could almost have 2 scout squads for the cost.
They are useful but I don’t think they’re as good as people believe - unless you’re regularly playing someone who they work well against
I swear by a unit of Infiltrators with a Phobos Librarian. It's pricey, but it's essentially a guaranteed primary objective holder in your DZ that cannot be dealt with at range or with deep strike, at all. Even if the zone out rule is completely irrelevant to your matchup, you have an immortal unit holding your home objective.
I love Infiltrators and run a ton of them. But I agree, they can be fairly match-up dependent. Especially when fighting melee armies that have zero deep strike, they will be at a disadvantage.
@@broco1163that is a good combo for sure, but for less points I can put a whirlwind on my home objective, usually out of Los. only one time it died - to a winged hive tyrant in 2 turns, but so would infiltrators in that scenario
And the whirlwind can do a bit of work and contribute by hitting key units out of Los
Agreed
Im running the firestorm detachment and take 5 intercessors to grab my home objective straight away and then run off to others. They're so small they won't get targeted or noticed unless I'm losing bad. I've then got termies, inceptors and either suppressors (9 S9 shots) or reivers (drop, shoot, move, charge, terror) in reserve, so if I can see my opponent is keeping something back, I will too
I feel like a small squad of suppressors is interesting- split fire to 3 seperate units and give them all -1 to hit…. Might do some damage too
You can only choose 1 of the units that you shot to use this ability on
I'd add Lancers to this list. They are hands down the best anti tank/monster unit in the book
I would say 6 man outrider squad with atv and attached biker chaplain but only if you use them in reserve to mob up and score from turn 4. as primary force they are not worth it as cavalry to support your main effort they are quite cheap, very sturdy and very shooty and meele strong. remeber kids, if you dont have active reserves you dont have a army or a plan. ALWAYS HAVE RESERVES!
inceptors are the ultimate lone operative killers. It is very hard to screen a 24" diameter bubble around a model, and 3 damage plasma will wreck stuff.
infiltrators 2 units of 5 are great for either denying reserves from scoring secondaries or screening against stuff like world eaters. infiltrator screen won me a game against them at the last GT I played.
scouts are cheap and have the capacity to threaten damage on anything, but die when an opponent sneezes at them. It is easy to screen them out and if the opponent has any indirect they will probably die before doing anything useful other than early game screening.
I usually win against opponents that use the Lt with combi-weapon by feinting attempts to take him out, but the reality is he is so low impact that diverting resources to protect him costs more value than he adds.
Giving the scouts a shotgun does not allow them to advance and action assault allows a weapon to shoot even if the unit advanced, if a unit advanced it is unable to shoot and prevents actions in the shooting phase even if that unit has an assault weapon
everyone saying intercessors for sticky, I don't agree. So you get sticky, they move off, then what? They still do nothing and are not hard to kill. I'd much rather spend the points for infiltrators and keep them on the objective to screen it, or eliminators to sit on one and shoot. Also in most missions you don't want to leave your home objective, you want to screen it to prevent deepstrikes/teleports for easy secondary scoring. I truly don't get where the value in intercessors lies.
cold day in hell before I buy infliltrators
I don't like Space Marine characters blowing in combat.
Inceptors aren't imo very good against alot of army's like the necrons and tau and Eldar with their overwatch hitting on 4 ect example 12 shots from drones
30 shots from fire warriors
3 from cadre exploding 6 puts down a team of 3 for half pt value I could go on with examples but they aren't imo auto include
GW should redo the Combi-Weapon Lieutenant to have access to Combi-Plasma, Combi-Melta, and Combi-Grav boltguns (as an alternative to the Combi-Flamer), and other wargear options, plus better rules so that he can lead another Phobos squad rather than go Lone Operative.
Not sure why you'd want to melt him into generic Phobos Lt, but getting actual combi-weapons back would be amazing.
His whole gimmick is being lone op and being hard to kill
They should redo combi weapons to their old style, current ones are boring
The right answer to this question is 4x scouts… then end of chat
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