Historical Accuracy of Firearms in Red Dead Online
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2020
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This week I tackle the often requested topic of the historical accuracy of f*rearms in RDO. To research this topic I used the 1898 Sears & Roebucks catalog, the Library of Congress Archive, the British Newspaper Archives, the New York Times Archives, various websites, and the book, 'The G*nning of America: Business and the Making of America's G*n Culture,' by Pamela Haag.
Topics Include: The history of bicycle g*ns; Attacks on bicyclists; Comparison of RDO price to the historical price of the LeMat; Cattleman; Double-Action; Mauser; The Volcanic Repeater & its history; Evans; Lancaster; Litchfield; Varmint; Double-barrel; Pump-action; Repeating; Semi-Auto; History of the Gatling; Maxim; Colt Browning 1895; Attaching one to a bicycle.
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/ themanvshistory
About Man vs History:
Man vs History is a UA-cam channel that endeavors to combine both education and entertainment, specifically related to history. While the focus of the channel will expand beyond analyzing the historical accuracy of RDO, for the time being, there's still more quality videos to come on the topic.
For the past decade I've been history professor at the college level. The knowledge and skills I acquired through my educational journey and profession are put to work in the creation of these videos, allowing me to locate rare primary source materials, analyze them carefully, and coherently deliver the content in an entertaining and educational manner. For each one I conduct an immense amount of research, scouring American and British archives, books, and scholarly journal articles. Gratefully, my profession also grants me access to a network of historical experts & specialists including authors, university professors, and museum curators. I hope you enjoy the end result!
Fair Use Disclaimer:
The fair use doctrine in U.S. copyright law allows individuals to use copyrighted material to create original works. It includes criticism, news reporting, research, and derivative works. Many UA-cam videos may use music or other snippets of other creations.
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Playing rdo is like making money in 1898 and paying 2020 prices
Blame TakeTwo
Gamfluent aight but stuffs still ridiculously overpriced ;-;
Gamfluent ok let’s think about this shall we :)
Let’s say you’re saving up for the bounty hunter saddle, roughly $550. For each bounty you do in the lower ranks you get around $8. That’s ~69 bounties averaging at 17 minutes each. 19.55 REAL LIFE hours for a saddle in a game. Still sounds fair? What if you’re saving up for the black Arabian? Let’s say you’re using the trader role to do so, this time with higher rank. Let’s say you have the 50 goods cart. 50 minutes to get the cart full and 18 minutes to do the long delivery paying roughly $150. 9 lots of 68 minutes is 10.2 hours. So far for a good horse and saddle we’re at 29.75 hours of playing this friggin game.
Lord people. The human race *will* be the death of me.
@@sadieadler3065 if you only do bounties to make money in RDO you’re playing the game wrong, there’s always stranger missions, hunting, PvP, other roles like the moonshiner and collector. So overall you should be making a lot more money than what you’re saying.
"Hickok45 here"
Let's see if we can hit that gong...
@@ManvsHistory *ding*
@@ManvsHistoryhow about that 2 litre
@@mihakabercic4457 let's smoke some pot
@@diegotorres3976 now let's try 2 miles away with my snub nose
>a bicycle with a light machine gun attached to it that could be ordered out of the Sears catalogue
This is why the past was superior.
Ha! I love it.
And you could order a 1897 shotgun and get it delivered straight to your door via the Sears catalog for cheaper than the gun store price... this is both why everyone liked Sears, and why the present sucks.
The Amazon of the 1800s
@Joshua Tree That was just the pretext. Even if Lee Harvey Oswald had never mail ordered a gun, or if he had never even shot JFK, the Elites would have just found some other reason to justify the law.
@Joshua Tree carcanos arent shit. they are extremely cheap though
The tactical bicycle bit had me giggling like a school boy. Could you imagine trying to walk through Rhodes and witinessing the first biker gang rolling up with machine guns to turn in a bounty?
Biker gang. Geez. Didn't even consider that. It'll all be my fault too.
In Sweden we had Bicycle Infantry Platoons during the Cold War.
Yes and then kill you like in GTA Online
RDOs version of the Opressor MKI
OPPRESSOR MK 0.5
There actually was a volcanic pistol that did shoot conventional ammo of that time only problem...it was made in Italy
Some guy also made a modern reproduction of the Volcanic that fires modern cartridges, but I can't remember the video... lol
But in rd2 there are italians
A fellow Forgotten Weapons viewer? Also, it would be more likely that one of those Italian volcanics made it here than the carcano. The Italians couldn't even build enough of those to supply their military until after WWI, and to the extent of my knowledge none were imported here until the 50s.
Love FW. Great channel.
The rdr2 catalog description for the volcanic mentions it being retrofitted to fire conventional cased centerfire ammo. It's not historically accurate but it explains how the gun works in the game.
It’s sad how little rockstar has added. Should add the sharps, Winchesters, 1875 Remington, colt walker, etc.
Need to add some union revolvers like the savage navy and starr
Ik budd, it’s so disappointing, red dead has a lot of potential😢
LARRY FEELS like even the horses and the tack were disappointing at first 😂
Me and my friends love RPing, the savage navy is awesome
The colt Navy revolver is in the game with is very similar to the colt walker and pretty much fills it spot
According to the in game gun catalog, the Volcanic Pistol you can buy is actually a replica, or at least an improved version of the original that's been chambered for more potent modern cartridges.
The in-game weapon is essentially a Mare's Leg with the stock removed.
@@BogeyTheBear is that a BF4 reference
@@bravo6959 the mare's leg is a real weapon 🐖
@@Assassino275 oh yea lol
The amount of research that goes into your videos never ceases to amaze me. Another job well done, as always.
Much obliged, Moonsun! Appreciate the support, my man.
𝔸𝕘𝕣𝕖𝕖𝕕
Agreed
The volcanic pistol is accurate, there is the volcanic and rocket ball, the volcanic had cartridges. The pre Winchester 30-30. Repeaters have the same action as the volcanic...aka Litchfield repeater.
What's funny is the amount of research isnt even really that hard to accomplish, makes me wonder why Rockstar couldnt have done the same work that one man is doing here on youtube
I’d like to see historical accuracy of dialogue in Red Dead Redemption II.
oooh that's a good one
LENNY!!
lumbago
@@jesses9540 It's serious!
Out of the damn way
It says that the volcanic pistol has been re-designed to shoot brass instead of rocket balls
Yep, saw this after the fact. Appreciate you pointing it out. Love the avatar btw. Keep fighting the good fight, brother!
@@ManvsHistory Holy shit. Some lucky kids have a teacher who is an ethnic Kekistani. Wonderful people with a rich culture dating back to before the great meme wars.
@@MaynardCrow Ha! I'm a decorated veteran of the Great Meme War, son. Spent several years in the 1st Based Artillery, dropping red pills wherever they were needed. We lost a lot of pedes, but that's expected when the memes were as spicy as they were.
@@ManvsHistory what? his avatar is just a non-existent character lmao, unless he changed it, which he probably did
@@Concise_Parakeet Looks like he changed it.
You should do a historical analysis of food prices in game.
Not a bad topic, Jack. I like it.
I’d like you to do a “wage accuracy” video. There’s a sign in Rhodes at the Gray Woolen Mill that says “laborers get payed $20 dollars at the end of the week no arguing.”
That's a good idea, Pacman!
4:55 Historically though, in the late 19th century there were a lot of people with obsolete firearms. A lot of people were poor and didn't have money to buy newer firearms (though they were a lot more affordable in the late 19th century due to lots of surplus guns being sold on the market), so you might see some strange firearms if you were there at the time.
Totally agree. I've been a big proponent of bringing black powder rifles into the game, so I'm good with the Volcanic being in. Sure, it would have been rare and obsolete, but I say let us carry whatever old ones we want. No harm in that.
@@ManvsHistory I would recommend looking up the channel in range tv for their western firearms section. People were still using black powder percussion cap revolvers even into the 1920’s, and mainly because grandpa’s 1862 pocket revolver he would Carry and likely use in the civil war that his mom gave to him before conscription, could probably still hit a target and have somewhat of an effect on a ne’er do well just as well as that brand new Colt police positive, over on the gun store racks, with a price far cheaper in terms of the ammo and ancillary products like upgrades to its ammunition to be a metallic cartridge
Fun fact: the 1897 shotgun had the ability to slam fire and the the wwi military variant had a sword bayonet and carried the nickname “trench broom”
Same is true of it's descendent, the Winchester model 12. That was my first shotgun. With the lack of a disconnect, you can fire as fast as you can pump if you keep the trigger depressed, but doing it well requires practice and finesse.
I suppose its not impossible that some ex Confederate officer would have moved out west with a LeMat in tow, but its admittedly unlikely. Only 5000 were made and they were unreliable and hated by its users. A shame, a nine round revolver with a shotgun attachment sounds wonderful on paper.
Practically everything in the 1800s sounded good on paper, but in real life. Yikes.
There's probably more reproduction LeMats than there ever were in original circulation
@Hunter Nowicki 100 arrows? Thats a little bit overkill.
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez Not for killing someone who wanted to steal your lands and genocide your people
@@3asianassassin nah
13:45 Basically the Oppressor Mk II from GTA Online 😂
Those dastardly AttemptStubbornlies shall grief ye cargo sales
Can you imagine if they put this in the game.
Rico Watches
But with grenades
@@penguinsrockrgr8yt216 Jesus Christ, don't give them ideas.
Get intimated by a guy on a bicycle? Ok...I'll just stand behind a tree and see the fabled physics of rdr2 take hold.
I think price historical accuracy is out of the question for rdo when people pay gold bars for a raggy leathy garment
I said it before and I’ll say it again. We need Colt revolving carbines. And they need to blow fingers off.
The .577 Nitro Express (Elephant Rifle) has a crazy markup too, but even it was crazy-expensive for most in 1899...
The Gatling and especially the Maxim were heavy beasts, with the water cooled Maxim weighing in around 300lbs..
13:54
Here we see an image of the Pegassi Bicycle (left) and Pegassi Bicycle MkII (right)
I’d honestly love a collectors role of finding old and unique weapons throughout the map and selling them to a gunsmith, or an option to keep and use the weapon for yourself. But Rockstar don’t add fun things like that in their game bc they’re so worried about making players grind to the point where they can’t bring themselves to add anything FUN
This is such an awesome idea, Matthew. Some players wouldn't be interested in this at all- but I would absolutely love it. What's the harm? Even if they were completely obsolete in the game, R* should let us decide if we want to use them. I've said it a million times, but I'd love a black powder rifle in the game. Preferably a Hawken .50. We need more fun!
hire this man rockstar
Oh hell yeah time to use some muskets
@@ManvsHistory Hell, GTA Online has a goddamn musket.
@@ElPayasoMalo Yeah... makes sense in GTA, but not in RD, lol.
The second article of a cyclist being attacked features a woman named "Grimshaw." 🤔
Another upload, another disappointment when I realize it's still not the "How expensive would it be to move a gang to Tahiti" video I hoped to see
Still a great vid tho
Dang it, Thom, I need to get on that! Appreciate the reminders! One of these days I'll have to dive into this. Love the idea. Always makes me smile.
1:08 did anyone else notice her name is Grimshaw? xD
Great, now I'm scared to ride my bike.
Me: Needs a $300 gun.
Employer: Gives me 300 pennies.
I find it so weird that the double barreled shotgun is more expensive than lever action repeaters
Thats why lever action rifles were really common
Hi! Just wanted to bring to your attention that the Volcanic pistol ejecting Brass casings is actually addressed in game. The Catalog article in game actually talks about the original Rocket ball ammunition. Going on to explain that the model in game is a newer model that fires Cartridges. Still not historically accurate but it is addressed. Thanks!
Its pretty amazing to find a channel that combines the two things i love. History and red dead. I love it man, ill spread the word
Really appreciate that, Brandon! Spread the word!
"Iron sights. All i use and it gets the job done" - Billy McCoy,
That machine gun bike would be like the oppressor mk 2 from GTA, but for Red Dead
Bicycle machine guns would be the ultimate griefer weapon XD
they should add a light machinegun that you can carry but it makes you slow and has like double action bloom so it would be fun but not overpowered
I think if you read the in-game catalogue, there's some paragraph about how the volcanic pistol switched to brass cartridges.
Yep, saw that after the fact. Appreciate it, Lentlemen.
Love and appreciate what you doing man hope your channel blows up
Thanks Anarchy, appreciate the support, my man!
The Volcanic Pistol being cheap and old actually explains why It's pretty common on Guarma. The level of detail in this game is amazing.
Haven’t had the idea as much to go back and watch the video’s you made that i didn’t see from you but now I’m gonna, great video as always and you’re amount of research with backing up you’re claims with proof is amazing.
Thanks, Marquise. In my line of work they drill it into us. Evidence, evidence, evidence.
I believe the Semi-Auto Shotgun exists for another type of play-style, and because, in the 1907 part of RDR2, it would be historically accurate.
History buff and future History Prof. here, I love what you’re doing brother! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Christian! I wish you luck, sir. It's a long road, but a fulfilling one. Plus you'll get really good at trivia, so that's a bonus.
These videos are of superb quality ! You are always well informed on the topic and have research to back up your words.
Thanks Ronald, appreciate that! Glad you're enjoying the videos!
Like I have said before I could sit and watch these all day. I am so looking forward to your future content.
Thank you, Keith! Always appreciate your support, man. Glad you're enjoying the videos!
I always thought the Pump action shotgun was the M1898 Shotgun
Ayyy constant uploads hell yea
3:51 i remember the days when that was 1000 dollars and it took me alot of fishing and hunting to get that money
Great video, dude! Man, I love your set. Looks super cozy.
Thanks Casey, really appreciate that!
New favorite channel!
Glad to have you join the community, Matt!
The Volcanic Pistol kind of reminds me of the Gyrojet Rocket pistol from the 1950s. It was pretty similar in that the ammunition was basically just a small, self-contained rocket. Interestingly though it started slow and gained speed as it travelled. Really not meant for anything other than target shooting, it was offered to the US military, who in a not very 1950s US military fashion, were not interested
Funny thing about the LeMat is the reason why it was a revolver for the Confederacy is because Colonel Jean Alexandre Francois LeMat designer and namesake of said revolver is P.G.T. Beauregard's cousin they were originally meant to be sidearms for dragoons and other mounted troops in the US Army they were developed in New Orleans, LA in 1856 and were going to be marketed to the US Army in 1859 there was Confederate contracts LeMat received to make 5,000 of these revolvers but do to the war breaking out approximately only 2,900 were made and were smuggled through Bermuda due to the Southern Naval Blockade imposed by the Union.
"Lady cyclist has left eye destroyed by someone throwing rocks." Ohhh that's how Miss Grimshaw got that scar.
Great video your channel has grown a lot well done! You should do how accurate the towns are.
Thanks George! I'll put that on my list and look more into it!
Not sure how I missed this one, but informative and entertaining as always. "Golly - I wonder if this one's gonna have a markup" made me laugh.
I hope rockstar gives us the 1995 Winchester as a Rifle, stats between the lichtenfeld and the Bolt Action
1895 not 1995.
love that repeating shotgun in PVP buckshot hip fire , even sort's out the slippery b's
That dude in the one bicycle gun ad just shot a dog for barking at him 💀😂
Crazy to think this being a real problem happening enough to necessitate a specific pistol for its remediation.
Entertaining to watch, as usual
These vids are great! I'm a huge rdr2 fan and I love history! Perfect mix
Glad you enjoyed the vids, Tegan!
I'm sure the prices are so much greater in RDD than real life due to balancing
i wanted to thank you for all the detail in these videos. not only do i just love rdr2, but i’m also writing a book set in this era and the real names of the guns used really helped! thank you!!
You bet, man! Keep me posted on your book's progress. Put me down for a copy!
@@ManvsHistory i will! thank you!!! :)
Great video.
Oh boy... The machine gun bycicle would be the Oppressor MK2 all over again... But on the other hand, PLEASE GIVE ME THAT! I WANT IT SO BAD! XD
Also, I would love to see a suppressed russian Nagant Revolver in the game. That would be so cool
uh GTA PLAYER NEARBY ALERT! ALERT! ALERT!
You really deserve more for your determination to get this information from the 18th century
The Guns are so pricey because rockstar is extremely greedy in their online games.
"Man so in love with greed he has forgotten himself and found only appetites."
@@nicobones9608 its ironic really
Thanks for a great vid
Just found you and blazed through your content. I really enjoy it though. The comparisons always intrigue me. Keep it up. Would definitely love to see some more about the hunting
Thanks buddy! You did see the hunting video, right? What else would you like to see on the hunting? I'm happy to look into it.
Man vs. History sorry about the late reply. I didn’t get the notification. But mainly was looking to see like a historical accuracy of the animals in the game and their particular spawning areas as to their natural environment. Their rarity and so on. And even their interactions with predators and their own species like how the wolves play fight, just the way their ai makes them interact. The prices video I thought was very neat and the fishing one as well, honestly everything I’ve seen has been amazing. Keep it up. Definitely one of the highest quality channels that appeal to my interests. Thanks
Man vs. History and also another thing that had my mind running was historical accuracy and comparison on the towns and cities in rdo. Like maybe comparing to relative sized and themed locations. I’m not sure how it could be worked but if anyone could do it that’d be you. You seem to have the knowledge and research materials to gather some kind of base concept of it
People from the 1800’s: Let’s make this gun 18 dollars!
Rockstar Games making Red Dead later: No, 300.
I noticed very minor hiccups in the video but you seem to have acknowledged those in comments, which is very commendable. You accept criticism and put hard work and effort into these videos. You’re someone I’m willing to get behind and support as a subscriber 🙏
Thank you, James!
So many things about RDR that bothered me as a gun, not just the prices, but the lack of different guns to use.
Velodog pistols: velo from velocipede, first name for all muscle powered vehicles and dog from, well, dog.
There was a whole subtype of pistols made for cyclists mostly for defence against dogs.
You sir have the most underrated channel on all of UA-cam!
I appreciate that, Bill!
It took me forever to supply the trapper guy with every feather, tooth and fur to collect all his handmade clothing 100% how accurate is this part of the game
This channel is like a gold mine for history nerds and rdo fans, such as myself
Ha! Awesome, man! I just put out videos about stuff I'm interested in! Glad to hear it resonates with other folks as well!
@@ManvsHistory Hell yeah, it’s a mystery to me how you don’t have more subs!
@@delete7316 We'll get there! It's gonna be a busy summer of creating some great content. Excited to get started!
Love your videos
Thanks King, appreciate that!
Well done and thank you!
Thanks Bethany!
While you didn’t mention the Carcano. The Carcano model used in game is the M38, the 1938 revision of the gun and not the original M91 long rifle version. Also as a side note, rockstar missed a great opportunity by not adding the Carcano calvary carbine to the game.
I actually love the Mauser pistol because it's the handgun used by Durango. Great old school Western comics imo
12$ for a gun.Ok Now I know why everybody has a gun in the West.
Except $12 then is $370.69 now. Cause inflation
Inflation, my brother
What a bummer! now i gotta swap my precious semi auto shotgun for the historically accurate repeating shotgun.
Back to my camp ammo box i go, well gotta be historically correct lol
Great vid, nice to know how much I'm being ripped off by Rock* lol
this channel has exploded!
YOOOO this got me hype for the potential future of RDO in terms of going bigger the way they did with GTA online. they're inevitably gonna do it so it's good to know that we could have dope vehicles like the bicycle gattling gun or hot air balloons or the stationary gattling guns for purchase to maybe defend camp at least
You should do a video about the LeMat and Navy revolvers being cap and ball revolvers historically, yet being loaded with cartridges in game
I always thought a volcanic was a cut down litchfield but good video as always
As someone developing a Gaslamp module for D&D set around the 1890s, these Red Dead videos have been damn useful!
Happy to help, Donal!
I need that Remington wallpaper you have back there
Great vid
If you read the description in the catalog they describe the volcanic as being modified to use regular cartridges. If you Google it a few smiths have made replicas that fire cartridges for real.
If you want more detail on the accuracy of the guns I suggest the video TFB (the fire arms blog) did on the guns of red dead.
Another thing people forgot to point out.
If you read the catalogue page for the Volcanic Repeating Pistol there is a blurb that tells you that current ones being sold in those gun shops have been retooled to function with normal brass cases ammunition to cater to collectors without resorting to using the weaker rocket ball ammunition which explains why you see shell ejection from this particular firearm and in reality it wouldn’t be too difficult for New Haven arms to have done that since they did that to turn the rocket ball oriented Volcanic Rifle into the brass rim fire cased Henry Rifle.
Just a little something I wanted to bring up
14:00 The Oppressor Mk2 of RDO
Such a great narrator voice
That bike would be the equivalent to GTA’s Oppressor MKII bruh
4:55 one thing to note which I realised when looking at it in the story mode gunsmith is they actually addressed this issue like there’s a bit of text talking about how they swapped the rocket ball ammunition for regular bullets in the game still kind of outdated I agree but it’s a cool enough addition I don’t mind too much.
CLEANING THE GUN WITH FINGER ON THE TRIGER.....WELL DONE rOCKSTAR!
I remember reading a historical article about the volcanic repeating pistol somewhere, it didn't mention price explicitly, but it did say that compared to other handguns available at the time it was a lot more complicated to operate, ammo was hard to come by, and it was way more expensive than anything else on the market. It was really just a company Smith and Wesson slapped together to market the prototype rocket ball ammunition which was a failure as mentioned
It was an expensive novelty gun that shot prototype ammo during a time where alot of innovation in gunsmithing was being made, and alot of other firearm systems on the market were more affordable easy to operate and maintain
The story mode got the prices more accurately
I like how the Wheeler and Rawson catalog shows a Winchester 1894 for the Lancaster that's based off of the 1866.
Also yes. The animations for the operation of the firearms looks good. But I would love to find the human being that could reload a firearm as fast as ya can in this. Especially the cap and balls, the Lemat and Navy Colt. I get that you are getting in shootouts against entire massive armies and they need to speed them up so you don't die reloading, but holy crap those are fast reloads.
I personally surprised they didn't have a Arthur wear armor like the kelly homemade metal armor he used to fight the Australian police, and then used a Colt Browning 1895 as a primary
The A5 did come out in 1902 but I think they can get away with it because the epilogue takes place around 1907
Technically the 1902 did technically exist in 1898 but an unfinished, experimental version probably wouldn't be available at a gun shop.
Phenomenal video
Thank you, Nick! Very kind words!
I actually have an A-5 and a Winchester model 1890, good, fun guns! Also, Good videos!