It was also said that Ashara killed herself because her daughter was born dead, so unless she was the twin sister of Jon i doubt his parents are anyone else but R+L.
Hi. Great video. My thoughts on the tower of joy I’ll split into 3, each getting more tin foil than The last haha 1: I do think there was a fight at the TOJ and it was over crowing Jon as king. I think this is what is meant when Arthur Dayne says “now it begins” and Ned replies “no now it ends”. They are referring to Jon being crowned king. 2: I do think a number of people died at the TOJ but I could see Ned, Howland and Arthur surviving. So I personally love the idea that Mance is Rheager and I think there is a lot of nods that it could be, especially early on in the books however a number of other UA-cam’s do good theories on mance being Arthur Dayne which I could also see working. I think in the mance is Arthur theory that Ned would have taken the sword dawn as he would have told Arthur you can not show up at the wall with the most famous sword and expect to be able to not be spotted. I think Ned would have buried dawn in lyanna crypt and this would be a good reason why abel /mance/ Arthur is looking for the crypts and wants Theon to take him as he will want dawn for the “wars to come” and this would be George nod to King Arthur and the sword in the stone myth. 3: I do think Jon was the baby in the TOJ and son to rhaegar and lyanna. However if this was going to be more complicated and reveal more then (hold my tin foil hat) I could see Jon being 1 of 3 babies born that day and lyanna had triplets 1)Jon 2) aegon/young griff and 3 being Dany Other UA-camrs do great theories on dany being the baby at the TOJ and there is going to be some reveal about the house with the red door and the lemon tree in dany history. Ned took Jon, Ashara Dayne took young griff and became septor lemor. I’ve not quite put together dany from this and I know it’s super tinfoil however I also like the idea as I think the prophecy azhor ahai, PTWP etc is not one person but 3 and each of the 3 will fulfil a part of the prophecy. EG dany will/ has woken dragons from stone. Aegon/ young griff could pull a burning sword and Jon could be reborn amist salt and smoke. Thanks again for the videos. Keep them coming : )
Thank you for the king words, and I love hearing all these theories it helps me when i revisit videos like these that I can explore some of the audiences theories on whether I agree or disagree. Also, I think all that could happen personally I have my own theory on dany and the red door if you wanted to watch that, but I think Dany was actually in Bravos
Jon being a Targaryen should have more meaning than just pissing off Daenerys. Hopefully it means something like he is the balance of ice and fire and that's why he's important for the white walker and Daenerys storyline, he'll be responsible to pushing back both Daenerys and the White walkers.
Agreed I also think it would be good for Jon as a character as he has grown up his entire life thinking he was nobody or not a full stark. While in reality he actually is the true heir
@@TheGreaseGoblins yeah it is good for Jon to realize that he actually does have a name and that he does mean something but having him find out and all he did with it was say I dun wunnit and I have to tell my little sisters I'm the true heir even though I dun wunnit was so damn annoying. Hopefully in the books he actually cares that he has a name and embraces it.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Yup if George is going to reveal Jon’s parents they need to have a meaning if not just keep it a mystery to where we can always speculate
@@TheGreaseGoblins I think George will reveal Jon's parents in Winds of Winter if he ever finishes winds of winter but I have my doubts that we'll see another asoiaf book
Love the vid, Ik I’m VERY late, but as a n+a=j fan, I need to know. How do u believe in r+l=j of the timeline completely disproves the theory. We know that Jon was born around the time of the sack. It would easily take around a month for Ned to go down to storms end, break the siege, and then find Lyanna in an area that none of the group are familiar with. This is also assuming that Ned already knew where Lyanna was (most probably Varys)
For me this just goes down to me as George R.R. Martin always struggles with time. This may not be correct like I said I think n+A=j has a lot of merit. My evidence on that would be the year gap which is something that never happened but you can feel the issues in book 4 and 5.
@@TheGreaseGoblins yeah definitely. You can definitely see the holes like when it comes to edric dayne who obviously was supposed to have more of a role after the 5 year gap. Although Ned keeping keeping Jon’s mother a secret works much better with r+l I must admit. Timeline for me completely disproves r+l. It’s an OLD theory and it’s thinking hasn’t changed. Also, GRRM’s wife said that r+l is “too simple for George” and laughed
I think the lie is that it happened in Dorne. I believe that for some reason Ned's memories have been tampered, and it happened in the north, at Queenscrown. The place is flooded, and I suspect it was Howland who used water magic to flood the place and kill the kingsguards, but in doing so it killed Ned's allies too, it's why none of the bodies were recovered. Ned feels guilt when it's raining. And this kind of scene would be very reminiscent of LotR when the water magic takes away the ring-wraiths. Ned says him and his allies were like wraiths. So I think a pregnant Lyanna was being taken north, either to the wall or past the wall, but as she was about to give birth they had to stop there. Why this memory would have been tampered with, I don't know. I blame Howland. I feel like the kingsguards were going to give Jon to the Others or the CotF.
Ser Arthur Dayne was protecting the prince that was promised and Jon was never in danger ned would never kill his own nephew now if robert was there Jon would have had a problem
I'm pretty sure u did during the video my friend that's all I could come up with alot of things about that flashback don't make much sense and it hasn't escaped the fans notice
@@robertsmiley2207 Oh I agree I think any theory u go with for the tower of joy has holes. Like I believe in R+L but with that said Ned says he hasn't thought about Rhaegar in years which is odd to say
What the actual heck, you are playing Total War on the background or am I gone crazy? I never saw you playing on the background of videos before, and I think you once said you never played Total War.
I too think that Ned and Ashara are not Jon's parents but on the other hand I think that there is a lot of merit in the theory that Dany is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar. There is just something very off about her childhood memories, that red door, that lemon tree etc. That theory has a lot of holes but there is just something very fishy there and I would love to hear your opinion on it. Even better if you make a video on it. I just recently discovered your channel and I am still in the process of going through your videos so sorry if you have already addressed this.
@@TheGreaseGoblins I watched the video on the red door and probably the biggest problem with R+L=D is Viserys because he should be old enough to notice a switch like that. But other than that there is just something very strange and weird about her memories and her. I do not think she was raised in Bravos. Aemon seems to believe that there is something special/magical about Rhaegar, and Rhaegar himself seems to believe it too until that believe is passed down to his offspring. His offspring is supposedly dead ( I too believe that Griff is a Blackfyre ) There is nothing inherently special/magical about Jon ( except that he is a warg but that is pretty much the case for all the Stark children with Bran being the strongest ) But Dany is very special/magical she literally brought the dragons back. It would make a lot of sense that she is Rhaegar's child. There is just something very thematically beautiful and G.R.R.Martinesque that Dany is the end result of something that started in Summerhall all those years ago.
„They had been seven against three, but only two lived to ride away.“ Semantics dictate that the two who lived to ride away were part of the seven. What happened to the three is semantically unclear. This is splitting hairs, I know, but an author using semantics in this way wouldn’t be surprising.
@@TheGreaseGoblins I don't think than Ned not thinking about Rheagar is a plot hole. For him, Jon was first and foremost Lyanna's son. But hiding him was still treason, so Ned had to guard his thoughts very hard to not slip up. We know he doesn't like talking about the Rebellion. I think also that he doesn't know all the details of Reg and Lyanna's relationship so for the sake of his love for Jon he pushed that man to the back of his mind. A lie told a 1000 times becomes a truth, and Ned told everyone a 1000 times that Jon is his son so that's what he became. Ned never thinks about Ashara in his POV chapters and yet people believe her to be his true love and Jon's mother? If anything, when he thinks of Lyanna his thoughts stray to Jon. Like in the Black Cells when he thinks of broken promises... he thinks of Lyanna and then Jon. He is in deep trouble, half expecting to die and none of his thoughts go to the woman he supposedly deeply loved and had a child with? Instead of he dwells on his sister and bastard son.
They fought because, to them they were protecting the future king.
It was also said that Ashara killed herself because her daughter was born dead, so unless she was the twin sister of Jon i doubt his parents are anyone else but R+L.
Hi. Great video. My thoughts on the tower of joy I’ll split into 3, each getting more tin foil than The last haha
1: I do think there was a fight at the TOJ and it was over crowing Jon as king. I think this is what is meant when Arthur Dayne says “now it begins” and Ned replies “no now it ends”. They are referring to Jon being crowned king.
2: I do think a number of people died at the TOJ but I could see Ned, Howland and Arthur surviving.
So I personally love the idea that Mance is Rheager and I think there is a lot of nods that it could be, especially early on in the books however a number of other UA-cam’s do good theories on mance being Arthur Dayne which I could also see working. I think in the mance is Arthur theory that Ned would have taken the sword dawn as he would have told Arthur you can not show up at the wall with the most famous sword and expect to be able to not be spotted. I think Ned would have buried dawn in lyanna crypt and this would be a good reason why abel /mance/ Arthur is looking for the crypts and wants Theon to take him as he will want dawn for the “wars to come” and this would be George nod to King Arthur and the sword in the stone myth.
3: I do think Jon was the baby in the TOJ and son to rhaegar and lyanna. However if this was going to be more complicated and reveal more then (hold my tin foil hat) I could see Jon being 1 of 3 babies born that day and lyanna had triplets 1)Jon 2) aegon/young griff and 3 being Dany
Other UA-camrs do great theories on dany being the baby at the TOJ and there is going to be some reveal about the house with the red door and the lemon tree in dany history.
Ned took Jon, Ashara Dayne took young griff and became septor lemor. I’ve not quite put together dany from this and I know it’s super tinfoil however I also like the idea as I think the prophecy azhor ahai, PTWP etc is not one person but 3 and each of the 3 will fulfil a part of the prophecy. EG dany will/ has woken dragons from stone. Aegon/ young griff could pull a burning sword and Jon could be reborn amist salt and smoke.
Thanks again for the videos. Keep them coming : )
Thank you for the king words, and I love hearing all these theories it helps me when i revisit videos like these that I can explore some of the audiences theories on whether I agree or disagree. Also, I think all that could happen personally I have my own theory on dany and the red door if you wanted to watch that, but I think Dany was actually in Bravos
Love the tinfoil lol, but Danny cant be a triplet bc Jon is 8-9 months older than her. This is fact
Jon being a Targaryen should have more meaning than just pissing off Daenerys. Hopefully it means something like he is the balance of ice and fire and that's why he's important for the white walker and Daenerys storyline, he'll be responsible to pushing back both Daenerys and the White walkers.
Agreed I also think it would be good for Jon as a character as he has grown up his entire life thinking he was nobody or not a full stark. While in reality he actually is the true heir
@@TheGreaseGoblins yeah it is good for Jon to realize that he actually does have a name and that he does mean something but having him find out and all he did with it was say I dun wunnit and I have to tell my little sisters I'm the true heir even though I dun wunnit was so damn annoying. Hopefully in the books he actually cares that he has a name and embraces it.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Yup if George is going to reveal Jon’s parents they need to have a meaning if not just keep it a mystery to where we can always speculate
@@TheGreaseGoblins I think George will reveal Jon's parents in Winds of Winter if he ever finishes winds of winter but I have my doubts that we'll see another asoiaf book
The kingsguard fought to protect a prince(jon)
Arthur dayne and lyanna. Just a shot in the dark
Love the vid, Ik I’m VERY late, but as a n+a=j fan, I need to know. How do u believe in r+l=j of the timeline completely disproves the theory. We know that Jon was born around the time of the sack. It would easily take around a month for Ned to go down to storms end, break the siege, and then find Lyanna in an area that none of the group are familiar with. This is also assuming that Ned already knew where Lyanna was (most probably Varys)
For me this just goes down to me as George R.R. Martin always struggles with time. This may not be correct like I said I think n+A=j has a lot of merit. My evidence on that would be the year gap which is something that never happened but you can feel the issues in book 4 and 5.
Also thank you for the kind words!!
@@TheGreaseGoblins yeah definitely. You can definitely see the holes like when it comes to edric dayne who obviously was supposed to have more of a role after the 5 year gap. Although Ned keeping keeping Jon’s mother a secret works much better with r+l I must admit. Timeline for me completely disproves r+l. It’s an OLD theory and it’s thinking hasn’t changed. Also, GRRM’s wife said that r+l is “too simple for George” and laughed
I think the lie is that it happened in Dorne. I believe that for some reason Ned's memories have been tampered, and it happened in the north, at Queenscrown. The place is flooded, and I suspect it was Howland who used water magic to flood the place and kill the kingsguards, but in doing so it killed Ned's allies too, it's why none of the bodies were recovered. Ned feels guilt when it's raining. And this kind of scene would be very reminiscent of LotR when the water magic takes away the ring-wraiths. Ned says him and his allies were like wraiths.
So I think a pregnant Lyanna was being taken north, either to the wall or past the wall, but as she was about to give birth they had to stop there.
Why this memory would have been tampered with, I don't know. I blame Howland. I feel like the kingsguards were going to give Jon to the Others or the CotF.
Ser Arthur Dayne was protecting the prince that was promised and Jon was never in danger ned would never kill his own nephew now if robert was there Jon would have had a problem
So I meant to convey that Arthur would not know what Ned’s intentions were. Ned was loyal to Robert in his eyes.
I'm pretty sure u did during the video my friend that's all I could come up with alot of things about that flashback don't make much sense and it hasn't escaped the fans notice
@@robertsmiley2207 Oh I agree I think any theory u go with for the tower of joy has holes. Like I believe in R+L but with that said Ned says he hasn't thought about Rhaegar in years which is odd to say
When i had only read the books i didjt pass over Ashara lightly. I was sure she was jons mom.
What the actual heck, you are playing Total War on the background or am I gone crazy?
I never saw you playing on the background of videos before, and I think you once said you never played Total War.
This is my friend's gameplay and this was a dark period of the channel where I used video games
@@TheGreaseGoblins,lol a dark period.
I too think that Ned and Ashara are not Jon's parents but on the other hand I think that there is a lot of merit in the theory that Dany is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar. There is just something very off about her childhood memories, that red door, that lemon tree etc. That theory has a lot of holes but there is just something very fishy there and I would love to hear your opinion on it. Even better if you make a video on it. I just recently discovered your channel and I am still in the process of going through your videos so sorry if you have already addressed this.
Nope I have not really. I did a theory video on the red door, but besides that I have not talked on this before!
@@TheGreaseGoblins I watched the video on the red door and probably the biggest problem with R+L=D is Viserys because he should be old enough to notice a switch like that. But other than that there is just something very strange and weird about her memories and her. I do not think she was raised in Bravos. Aemon seems to believe that there is something special/magical about Rhaegar, and Rhaegar himself seems to believe it too until that believe is passed down to his offspring. His offspring is supposedly dead ( I too believe that Griff is a Blackfyre ) There is nothing inherently special/magical about Jon ( except that he is a warg but that is pretty much the case for all the Stark children with Bran being the strongest ) But Dany is very special/magical she literally brought the dragons back. It would make a lot of sense that she is Rhaegar's child. There is just something very thematically beautiful and G.R.R.Martinesque that Dany is the end result of something that started in Summerhall all those years ago.
R+L=J is too obvious. There is no surprise there. The big reveal is not Ashara. The big reveal is that Ned is really John’s father.
„They had been seven against three, but only two lived to ride away.“
Semantics dictate that the two who lived to ride away were part of the seven. What happened to the three is semantically unclear.
This is splitting hairs, I know, but an author using semantics in this way wouldn’t be surprising.
The Tower of Joy keeps me awake at night. Wtf happened and why so many holes in that story?
Agreed like either way u go it has holes even with what I believe R+L there are holes like Ned’s line saying he hasn’t thought if rhaegar in years
@@TheGreaseGoblins I don't think than Ned not thinking about Rheagar is a plot hole. For him, Jon was first and foremost Lyanna's son. But hiding him was still treason, so Ned had to guard his thoughts very hard to not slip up. We know he doesn't like talking about the Rebellion. I think also that he doesn't know all the details of Reg and Lyanna's relationship so for the sake of his love for Jon he pushed that man to the back of his mind. A lie told a 1000 times becomes a truth, and Ned told everyone a 1000 times that Jon is his son so that's what he became. Ned never thinks about Ashara in his POV chapters and yet people believe her to be his true love and Jon's mother? If anything, when he thinks of Lyanna his thoughts stray to Jon. Like in the Black Cells when he thinks of broken promises... he thinks of Lyanna and then Jon. He is in deep trouble, half expecting to die and none of his thoughts go to the woman he supposedly deeply loved and had a child with? Instead of he dwells on his sister and bastard son.