Okay - cause it's you. This sponsor of yours, do you really trust them? I don't have a much internet presence, but I'm not blind either and I know every search is recorded somewhere, just for starters. And sometimes, in the heat of a conversation on UA-cam, snips of personal info make their way into the system. I have no social media activity at all, unless you count YT, no real internet presence, don't have a homepage, channel, blog or anything like it. Would you still suggest I use Incogni and have them clean up after me? I've known you from your channel since you started, so I'm asking for your honest opinion. And I'm very sorry and upset to hear that you had identity theft issues - these are hellish and extremely hard to deal with, if you succeed permanently at all. I hope you're free of this for good now!
Dude ,THIS SEGMENT STARTED OFF REALLY HOOD UNTIL YOU SLIMLY STARTED THE IDENTITY THING , THATS WHEN WE REALIZED YOU WERENT TALKING ABOUT GoT , WELL WE MOVED ON TO 'DUST '
GoT was the greatest show EVER ! WE ALL HOPED IT WOULD CONTINUE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE CREATURES CAME OUT OF THE CAVE ATTACKING THE HUMANS , THIS WAS GOING TO BE AN EPIC BATTLE FOR SURVIVAL , IT WOULD HAVE ALIGNED ALL IN THE BATTLE AGAINST EVIL ...TOO BAD GREED GOT IN THE WAY , BUT IN THE END D&D GOT NOTHING , BONE BROKE , AND AT THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE . GOES AROUND COMES AROUND .GEORGE WELL HE GOT LAZY , HE GOT HIS ALSO ....TOO BAD ,WHAT DRUGS CAN DO TO YOU...
Dan and Dave got an offer to work on the Star Wars franchise and that's when D&D decided to ditch GoT and end it as quickly as possible. They basically got greedy and impatient. That's when the writing on GoT took a nosedive and the ending pissed off everyone. Oh, and because GoT ended so badly, Lucasfilm then withdrew their offer to D&D so both of them ended up with nothing.
HBO should have fired Dan and Dave the moment they started pushing for shorter seasons and episode counts. Hopefully they don't allow something like that to happen again. If you are arguing for that, then your heart clearly isn't in it anymore.
It's because George sold the the show rights to Dan and Dave instead of a specific studio. He thought it would be better that way. Obviously, he was wrong...
@DivertingTales Right?! The producers get more hate than they deserve. They were hired to adapt a story, not write it themselves. GRRM is at fault for the trash ending, too since he stubbornly refuses to finish TWOW. Twelve years and counting......
George said there was plenty of material for more seasons but david and dan “wanted a life” and to do other things. Fair enough. Well and good. Then go have your life and do other things and let someone else continue with the extra seasons. Their attitude towards it seemed awfully selfish to me.
@@spirittammykthat makes no kind of sense. They approached GRRM when it was an unfinished series with huge time gaps between published works. It’s more on them than George for how they handled the Tv show. I get you and other “fans “are butthurt but blaming George for how the show turned out is misplaced anger. He’s always been a slow writer, expecting differently is just a set up for disappointment
Hbo had their pick of the best writers in Hollywood to jump in and pick up the show anytime Dan and Dave wanted to step away. There is no writer in Hollywood who would not have jumped at the chance if their agent said Game of Thrones is looking for writers. What happened with the show was really unfair to George, the fans, and the cast and crew. Such a bummer.
well technically in WoW he’s Theon again. he kinda makes a big deal of it. tho he’s still a prisoner and at first thinks he’s back in his cell under the dreadfort at the beginning of the chapter.
The actors have aged already and I have never heard about anything remotely similar in the history of cinema. Probably because you would never reach the same audience levels close to the first time streaming and there would always be a confusion with two different endings. Its beyond repairable. The worse it is. They spoiled potentially the best series ever because of their greed? Impatience? The audience could tell, the critics could tell, the actors and the author of the books were in horror real time. No one could do anything...... Unbelievable professional failure from both of them.
Why? We still don't even know the ending. HBO would have to write a new ending and why would it be good when writing fantasy novels isn't their expertise in the first place? They don't even know how to hire a writer to write a fantasy novel, never mind two. No, the ending is the ending forever. The moment is gone. No one will ever go back to that series. It's possible far into the future when George is dead and AI has completed his novels that someone will again put out a series based on the main story. But don't hold your breath. It will be decades.
I think the Hound relieving himself in the river that Lady Stoneheart was supposed to be pulled out of was a hard and public middle finger to George. I see that as a for sure cutoff point for him working with them at all.
He will never finish and has no reason too. He can just continue to say he’s working on it and that his ending is way better. At this point whatever the ending is will be disappointing, it’s been too long and the expectations continue to grow.
@@DarthJacobi He never actually said that his ending would be better, he said that his ending would be kinda similar to the show, and many theorized that after the S8 backlash he scratched his ending off. He also said that for him to write Asoiaf he has to be absolutely focused on that single task and he can't do it effectively after blowing up the way he did post GoT.
It’s his universe, these are his characters and this is his story. GRRM deserved a say in everything. EVERYTHING. He’s literally THE CREATOR. D&D destroyed what could been the greatest and the biggest show ever made with the last two seasons for whatever the reasons might have been. To a point where it has been erased from pop culture and no one talks about it anymore. It’s kinda sad coz I was a huuuuge GoT fan.
His fault. He should have signed a contract similar to how J.K Rowlings signed on with WB where she had to have approval over every script and casting choice.
It doesn't matter what he deserved, but what he signed. That's all, really. Let's just all move on and forget a decade of our lives in entertainment. It's like we spent that time in TV prison.
Sounds like D&D started to believe they were responsible for the success of the show and thought they didn't need GRRM. And, of course, their own hubris resulted not only in their downfall but the downfall of the show as well.
@@ACinemafanatic nonsense. all the major plot point endings were told to them by GRRM before the show even started. this is just complete revisionist history.
I don't know how George could sell information that he hadn't yet finished writing himself. I think lots of people think it makes more sense for John Snow to kill the Night King, and for Arya to kill Cercei. Perhaps there's something to that. I think George is having a difficult time wrapping it up himself. And I hope he doesn't feel in any way obligated to do anything in the books just because it was shown that way in the Show Series. They are independent. I just hope George's ending has a better reception than Dave and Dan's.
@doublestrokeroll Jamie's last arc in the book is the exact opposite from the show. This book came out twonurars before the last season. So no they changed major plot points
@@JoVicttor49 The former. The writing was definitely on the wall with writing out tysha, killing Shea in self defense, and putting a crossbow bolt in tywins gut because Tyrion didn't like it when he said "whore."
@@eddardgreybeardwriting tysha out was a good call on the show . No piint ro her charcter. Its redundant with shaes and moreover the audience never met her so you might as well give her role to someone they connect with instead😊
@@GJBedrin That's foolish thinking. It completely shaped the entirety of his relationship with tywin, Jaime, Shae, and every woman he's ever been with. And what it means to be a Lannister. You could say it was the Pinnacle character defining moment for him. They wrote that out, and they completely wrote out Tyrion. And you obviously haven't read the dang books because they didn't even need to cast her. All the audience needed to know is how that moment affected Tyrion and how it shapes his relationship with basically everyone. This would be like making Jon Snow a legit Stark, or having Bran never thrown from the window by Jaime, or perhaps never having Ned executed in the first season.
Hollywood almost always does this with great novels, these directors/show runners think they know better than the award winning authors of these IP's, their egos are unreal. When will executives learn to rein these producers/show runners in and make them stick to the IP they spent a fortune to buy, look what the show runner did to the Witcher, she refused to stick to the books and destroyed the show. Thankfully Dan and Dave have hardly worked since the season 8 disaster.
Not to defend D&D, but GRRM wanted HBO to halt the show until he finished the books. He wanted HBO to sit atop the actors contracts for years - while paying them and the "kids" got older and the hype diminished year after year after year. He's an impractical man. It's impossible to make a show this expensive to last for 13 seasons. D&D did a bad job, yes. But GRRM also let us down.
Absolutely. GRRM has some nerve to be angry when he didn’t finish the books, despite undertaking a filming project with HBO, actors, and many dedicated staffers dependent on his progress. Say what you want but at least JK Rowling FINISHED the series that made her famous. She has a legacy. GRRM has nothing but my disappointment and low key contempt until the books are released
I was thinking about George RRM tell once that The Red Wedding chapter was really hard for him to write and in fact he wrote the rest of the book first and came back to finish this chapter last. Just because it was emotionally the most difficult- killing off characters he loved and was attached to. Maybe this is similar with Winds. My understanding is that this book is likely meant to be the darkest of the series, with devastation, loss, despair throughout the seven kingdoms. It's probably not fun to write chapter after chapter of such bleak landscape, your beloved characters suffering and dying
Yeah, but he also brought Catelyn back to life at the end of the book too. Another reason why the show went downhill after season 4, they omitted some of the coolest parts of the later books.
D&d rushed it alright, coz they wanted to work with kateleen Kennedy 🤢 and Disney on a star wars project...what happend that now,??were is that project?? Lol
@@Rev_Goose They explained why Catelyn wasn't brought back. They wanted to keep the surprise of Jon coming back to life & if they had brought Catelyn back, it may have ruined it. They didn't want what was dead to never actually die, essentially. If too many characters "die" then come back, it can end up just seeming like a novelty. And something that's just used for shock value.
Two completely different usages of being ressurrected. One being, beric dondarion pouring his life into catlyn after her being dead for a while@@mamsy1169 her coming back as a half zombie, absolutely vengeful and looking to punish anyone who wronged her and the starks (a great story development). Meanwhile john was killed off completely randomly with his story being imcomplete, clearly obviously going to get res'd as mellisandre just happens to be nearby. It was all very obvious.
A couple of points. 1 - I doubt anyone will be arguing in any seriousness as to what the real ending will be as long as the written story is completed. 2 - the remark about actors perhaps wanting to go on to other projects - as much as that is true and bigger scale doesn't always mean better things, I can't think of a single actor who has been in anything remotely as popular by comparison to their roles in GoT, since the end of the show. Do we know if any of the actors actually felt 'done with' their roles and were happy it didn't go on longer? We know that Emilia and Kit both felt gutted personally and that might be an understatement.
I'm sure you realise this, and it's probably just the wording, but it isn't necessarily going on to bigger and better projects. It's about moving on to different projects. Very few actors want to be stuck in the same role (or same type of role) for their careers. To answer your question that came after that, the two that immediately spring to mind are Jason Momoa, who I'd argue found greater success with Aquaman (even though DC+WB are screwing that up), followed by Pedro Pascal who has had two massively successful hit shows after GOT, plus other stuff. Of course it helps that their GOT runs were limited and they weren't part of the main characters but it still fits the criteria. 🙂
@@brettvandermeer5297 As I said, other projects. Whether they reach the highs of GOT isn't really important as there are other good, even great shows out there.
Dan and Dave had One Job: To adapt the NOVELS in "A Song of Ice and Fire" into an HBO series. There's just one problem. Dan and Dave ran out of finished novels, and likely only had a cliff's notes equivalent of material for The Winds of Winter, and at the most, bullet points of events that had to happen in A Dream of Spring. Because Martin FAILED to deliver the remaining two books in his novel series. And now, even after all these years, he STILL hasn't finished ONE of the two books. Also, I distinctly remember watching a video where Martin clearly stated that the way the show ended was pretty much the way the books would end, though he said that there would be more character perspectives in the books. So tell me how it's really Dan and Dave's fault? Their biggest mistake was undertaking the project when the source material wasn't anywhere near complete. I think they assumed that Martin would care enough about his career as a writer to actually get Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring done while the show was being produced.. I did the figures and determined that had he written something like 402 words a day, five days a week, he could have delivered Winds of Winter in the form of a novel the same length as A Game of Thrones by the midpoint of Season 4, and A Dream of Spring at the same length by end of Season 7. The gap between 7 and 8 would have allowed the final books full adaptation. But no. Martin didn't really even get started good with writing Winds of Winter until after the show ended. So Dan and Dave had no choice but to use the limited resources they had to write the ending of the story FOR martin. That wasn't their job. I lay the failure of Season 7, and to a greater degree, Season 8 at Martin's feet. And if Martin was so unsatisfied with Dan and Dave's handling of the as-yet unwritten novels' material, then why didn't he, as an executive producer, step in and put them in their place and make sure they got it on track. Remember, like I said, Martin said that the books would end like the show ended. So, he must not have been all that disappointed. When you are adapting something, you shouldn't have to feel like you're having to lay down tracks in front of a moving train.
100%. They're objectively great adapters, as seen by how popular the show was and it's ratings during S1-7, but the more I see George procrastinate, the more I imagine he wasn't fun to work with. That said, it's tough to say that if the books were finished if D&D still wouldn't have grown tired of working on the same thing.
@@jared_r It was in a video that I can't seem to find now. He was talking about the ending he had planned for the series and whether or not he should change the ending for the books. He rambled a bit in his usual way, then concluded that he would be keeping it as planned, and that it is the additional character perspectives that will set the book ending apart from the show ending, even if the events play out the same.. I remember thinking, when he said it, "So much for the earlier statement that the show was doing its own thing, while he was going to do his." I also thought it was nice and convenient that D&D practically wrote the ending of his story and now all he needed to do was come in and fill in the story arcs that are in the books but not in the shows. I mean, really... At this point, does it even matter? He STILL hasn't finished Winds of Winter. There's no telling whether or not he'll even start Dream of Spring. It's anyone's guess when or if we will ever know how he's handling the book ending. Regardless, Martin dropped the freaking ball. He was SUPPOSED to have written the books, and Dan and Dave were supposed to adapt them. He didn't write a single book in NINE YEARS! Dan and Dave were effectively laying the track in front of the train, while running out of rails.
George should have maybe wrote the remaining 2 books and gave them the content everybody wanted instead of them having to make it up on the fly. He will literally do anything other than finish these books.
They didn't have to make up everything "on the fly"! Aegons prophecy laid out the way it should have ended. Now with the way GOT ended the prophecy was just thrown out the window.
It pisses me off that they already had the ending repeated constantly in Aegon Targaryen’s prophetic dream and it didn’t happen. It’s the most irritating thing ever. It makes the whole prophecy irrelevant.
Young Griff was one of GRRM's biggest errors. Introducing major characters so late in the books is and always has been a bad idea, and the myriad characters he introduced in the last (and probably final) book published are undoubtedly a major reason he can't finish the books. At this rate he'd need three more books to resolve everything - and that would likely stretch to four because he's only happy when he's embellishing and expanding the story, not when he has to resolve things. Young Griff was a non-essential character so far as the TV show was concerned, and would have unnecessarily complicated things. No, no need for the Cheesemonger's son, aka the Mummer's Dragon.
HBO GOT ended so out of character of how the show was heading. I honestly would have accepted Cersei winning at the end over the train wreck the writers threw at us.
Hopefully we will live long enough to see a GOT remake. I actually think I have a better chance of seeing a remake in my lifetime then ever reading the final book. I am now sad while typing this, because I realize that it is the truth.
Obviously, the show went down hill rapidly once George was no longer involved. That being said if he no longer wanted to be directly invovled, it makes sense that the people involved with the show are going to work effeciently and not include George. What did he expect that would ask his approval on every script? You either are working oni it or you are not. I think this is just George's way of letting us know that after season 4 it is no his story. And we as fans can not expect some TV writers to be anywhere near the quality of writer that George is.
@@YagamisMouththe dialogue was written by teenage brains. The show reached a climactic point so it felt big but they really had no clue how to make it feel as big. Just think about s1 to s4 with GRRM part of it and the way they built up the intensity, and then go back to s5-s8 and really listen to the quality of dialogue. They’re idiots that rode the hype that have no clue how to write and had a great budget to spend on amazing cgi(not s8).
people noticed the downfall in season 5, I felt it in season 7 where everyone can just teleport. It's so strange, in early season it takes them a few episodes to get to the next kingdom, showing us how big the world is.
I am quite sure, that he has the ending already in detail available, with most of the major events in between. Its just a total mess and he wants tl make it perfect. As soon he is 6feet under, the pubisher will send in an executor to sort all the notes and write a final with as much grrm as possible. Look at lord of the rings, where we just got another book a few years ago, which is claimed cowritten by jrr tolkien
@@MrInvinciblewarriorProblem is that GRRM stated he doesn’t have all this exhaustive notes and documentation that Robert Jordan had. Most of it is in his head
The last episode literally was the same let down as GoT's last episode. The writers just had to ruin a great series. In my opinion the next to last show was the real ending.
I’m reminded of the way Clive Cussler’s works have been treated on film. He wrote books that were excellent movie scripts and the studios just wiped their butts with them.
Unfortunately, when a writer makes the deal to have their work adapted, they take the chance on how it will turn out. George is still pretty lucky that the series had some great episodes and that it led to him getting many more opportunities.
I don't think he's ungrateful, more or less I think he is just being truthful about the ending not being the direction (if he would ever finish them 🥴🥴🥴) the books are going to go in.
And that's why he'll never finish the story himself. The show destroyed his fucks to give. I wish he'd just tell us his ending in a one paragraph statement before he has a heart attack.
@@Swearengen1980If anything the success of the show made him procrastinate more. If he cared enough he would try to correct the mistake the TV show made
@@firemaster9994 Yeah, instead of criticizing the series that took his career to new heights, use that energy to finally show us what direction things could have taken. Stop whining and prove you had something that was so much better.
I think the show ended the way the books will, but... the show is like your friend telling you the plot of movie he just saw. He's leaving out lot of detail and some things don't make sense, but the broad strokes are there.
I mean, I think if they were going to do that, they should've done it just a couple years after the series ended. Or maybe even just did a 'movie' to fix the finale to fit Georgie's vision. It's been 4 years. Some of the actors would probably come back but most of them have probably moved on and revisiting it would only exacerbate their PTSD that D&D caused. I mean so much of the cast was displeased. Not to mention, the cast has aged. Of course us die hard fans wouldn't focus on that. We live for the story. But I think majority of the viewers weren't book readers so therefore they would be more focused on how different everyone looked. I mean look at all the bullshit Emilia Clarke gets for aging naturally. A lot of factors why... also, maybe it's been mentioned, and HBO doesn't want to take that gamble.
@@JuicebyJay "Georgie's vison" That's assuming he has one, still 2 books to go years after the show ended so.... Not sure what vision you're talking about
you can’t fix four seasons of development(proper or unproper) in a movie. and frankly, nor can a network recind its own show and do another one presenting it as “the good continuation”. @@JuicebyJay
@@ragnar97100% he should retcon them in the books. The tv stuff is only ensuring we might never have anymore book material and it’s for that reason I blame George about as much as D&D for the predicament we are currently in.
GRRM should have finished writing his books like he promised to do. The show changed when they went from source material to an outline of what could happen.
They had plenty book materials for Season 5-6: Varys and Young Griffs’ Blackfyre Conspiracy, Ariane Martell, the Dormish and Sand Snakes conspiracy, Lovecraftian Euron Greyjoy, Jaqen H’gar in Old Town, etc.
Frankly, my compassion for the complaints of a guy who happily sold half a story for 15 million dollars/season is pretty limited. Not to mention - his comments plainly throw shade not only at the show, but (intentionally or not) at himself, too: praising The Last Kingdom, whose author managed to write 7 novels in the time since GoT started, and Endgame which demonstrated how to actually *finish* a long-running story.
YAWN. When he finishes the books (or at least publishes the next one that has now been 10+ years since the last book) I'll be interested in his complaints.
Didn’t he promise a book to be released during the show’s run? We’re years past the show being over and still no book. D&D made mistakes but they didn’t exist in a bubble - other people had opportunities to jump in. And GRRM wanting the show to continue past eight seasons… well then give them more material.
could there be a tv show adaptation in the future of a song of ice and fire, one which stays 100% on point with the books ? what would be the chances of that
Depending on how big the IP continues to be and whether or not whole streaming fiasco hasn’t swallowed the studios whole, I could see HBO/WB (or maybe a new owner of the IP) giving it a go to keep the IP going.
On the other hand they simply had nothing new to work with since the first season aired. I doubt anyone would have predicted that they would have no new material available until the end of the show, and that they suddenly would need to become writers of the story who can consult with the author, rather than adaptors. It's really unfortunate how this all went down, starting with one of the best if not the best series in television and then degrading like that. It feels like this story is just not meant to be finished properly in any shape or form.
It's easier to point fingers.. but the reality is HBO could have got a new director and re involved George to continue more seasons but they cleaned their hands and this is the conclusion. Yes, the directors wanted to give the conclusion for the show, but they also have a lot of bosses and producers above them.. so I can't really blame all to the directors
after listening to this, I am really hopeful that Oda (author and artist of One Piece) keeps his creative control of the adaptation. While the showrunners of the OPLA seem much more into it than DD ever seemed to me, distater of deviation can always strike
Hollyweird is a petty vain industry. George slighted Dan and Dave by stepping back, and slighting him on is blog. He chose to not be involved, so he gets what he deserves. A broken legacy. He will never finish his books.
Back when Lost was on air they negotiated six seasons 120 episodes and it did the show a fantastic service. During the middle of the show in season 3 for the first six episodes that was a writer strike that severely hampered the quality. A lot of people tuned out at that time. Sadly they ended up missing what would end up being the next 16 episodes which was some of the greatest TV ever put the screen. You will hear many people complain about season 4 5 and 6 of Lost however they were all just as good and due to them no longer needing filler episodes they stuck the landing perfectly. This was an ending they had always known they were going to get to since the beginning unlike other shows. The problem with Lost is that requires multiple watch throughs in order to understand the ending and purpose of the show, and most people who have a negative reaction to the show refuse to watch it a second time or even finish the first time due to negative reviews or their own experience. This pretty much guarantees that the show cannot work the way it was intended: for you to rewatch, rewatch, rewatch, rewatch, and realize that with every rewatch you are actually picking up new clues to this giant tapestry and realizing that it's much more complicated and bigger than you ever thought it was the first three or four times through. Only once you begin to see what is truly going on can you understand how the ending is supposed to be. Lucky for me when it first came out I recorded it on VHS and would always replay the episode two or three times right after it aired. I spent 3 hours watching each episode that very night. It would come on Wednesdays at 8:00 and I would stay up till 11:00 watching the episode and using slow motion and pause and taking notes and really trying to break it down. I was also fortunate to have someone else watch with me and we would tag team it to make sure we fully understood everything, and then we would go online to figure out or cross-reference everything. This was in the earlier days of the internet when you didn't have UA-cam like we have today. The fact of the matter is if you didn't do all of these things you probably think that none of it makes sense. I would encourage you to watch the entire show again and then watch it again and then watch it again. Buy the books, (there are 3 small Lost novels which help the story), then there is Bad Twin, And then you need to learn about the valenzetti equation, and then you need to play the alternate reality game, and you have to do all of the other "side quests" so to speak. Just watching the show is not enough. If you do all of that I guarantee you your experience during the show will be much different. And the time to do the extracurricular activity is between season 1 and season 2. Do it too early or too late and you will ruin the experience. Hopefully for those people who are Game of thrones fans and miss all of the theory crafting and want to go back and do it over again but realize that they cannot fix Game of thrones This will help you realize that you can go back to Lost and fix it. There is a perfectly good show there that most of the world is completely wrong about. I should know, I've seen it over 15 times and in the world's leading expert on it. I can confidently say that.
Wow almost 4 years later and we're all still pissed off hahah . Damn I think this is a first for television, where a massive fan base feels absolutely betrayed , where the show has been completely forgotten
Even though he's put Winds off for 50 years, I'm still as excited today as I was when he released his first chapter on the blog. Please George.. please knock this out of the park. We're itching.
I thought I would never say it, but I DO NOT CARE about WoW any longer... It's been too long coming and I've moved on with my life and other things due to the extended wait...
To be fair, maybe if GRRM had of put as much effort into finishing his books as he did in soaking up the fame from how well the show was doing, then it might not have ended as such a clusterfuck.....
What I don't understand, is how Dan and Dave were so influential. All the biggest hitters, HPO, Martin, wanted more. Why didn't they just sack D&D or get new show runners to do it properly? Contracts I'm guessing...
Ok I get it. But honestly George kind of have no one to blame but himself. The show literally caught up to his books and he still was not done. But I do agreed, D and D grew super big and thought they can do no wrong. But boy was that not the case.
In all fairness to D&D, there were some fantastic episodes after Season 4, so George can't take credit for those. And George allowed the disappointing ending to happen. He had ample time to finish the Winds of Winter, but got "sidetracked" with other BS. Had he kept up with the production schedule, we likely wouldn't have the disappointing ending (but we're assuming that whatever ending George eventually comes up with, it won't be disappointing and that's certainly not a given). So no matter how much shade he wants to throw at D&D, D&D have more than enough shade to throw back at him for his delays and procrastination.
His writing style isn't an architect but a Gardner.....translating to even he has no idea what could or even what will or in the case of Winds what has happened to the various characters, which is on the one hand hopeful, yet if you are trying to not only to craft an overall storyline but write a TV show under deadlines due to contracts that held the financial futures of the cast and crew in jeopardy. It might take lifetimes for him to discover what could happen and how he wants to tell it because he is floundering for closure. I didn't initially enjoy the final product but the story as well as the books are left up to interpretation until he finalizes his gardening process and harvests results. HBO and the cast and crew are reality, expectations were real. George is still trying to muster confidence on pulling everything together and writing a plot down the long ways. Much patience and passion to you and your channel I love your possible take on season 8 and 9 they took more time and energy than George has for this era of the series.
The nerve of GRRM shaming the producers of the show. This guy hasn't bothered to publish a page of the series for 12 years. Yeah, the last few seasons were a mess. But what were the producers supposed to do? They had zero source material. "The Lord Of The Rings" and "The Witcher" managed to royally screw their shows up with all the source material they needed. "The Lord Of The Rings" even had a movie to source. At least Benioff and Weiss, unlike Hissrich and Kemeny, didn't try to turn their show into feminist propaganda forcing the lead of the series to quit. Jordan's "Wheel Of Time" show, although slow to build, is actually doing a good job, but they too have a complete source to work from. Benioff and Weiss managed to keep it fairly interesting, if a bit hackneyed, to the end.
D&D were hired to adapt the source material into a show and they made one of the best shows in the history of television. They however are not authors capable of continuing a story they were never supposed to have to write. You don’t like how the show ended blame George.
The last seasons of GOT destroy all my feeling about the show and GRR Martin's books, I even didn't watch the new show. Martin was not a newbie in screenwriting and relationship with producers. He can shame D&D as he want but he also let all that mess happen.
If GRRM wanted 10 seasons he should have negotiated that from the start. Dan and Dave made stated very clearly from jump that they want a season for each book. GRRM is deflecting the fact that he hasn't finished Winds yet and probably never will
The video is full of lies and omissions. GRRM is a long-time fan of Marvel and Bernard Cornwell. Of course he's going to shout out their stuff when it releases. Given that GoT was releasing a show every week, these shout outs were bound to coincide with one episode or another. The stuff he was saying about creative differences was in reference to Beauty and the Beast. Even the screenshot of the article posted in the video explicitly said that it was not in reference to GoT. All I saw was a bunch of out of context tweets that were presented in a way that insinuated that GRRM was crapping on his own show when he never did any such thing.
I don't understand why GoT had to end when Dan and Dave wanted it to. They were the showrunners, yes. But I remember when another old HBO favorite of mine, True Blood, lost its showrunner, Alan Ball. I don't remember during what season he left, but the show continued for a few more seasons afterward. I guess that the contract Alan Ball had and his "ownership" of certain elements of the production, must be different than the rights Benioff and Weiss had with regard to GoT. I mean, both HBO and GRRM wanted the show to continue for a while longer. Why was it completely up to D&D? Every show has an expiration date, but GoT was so popular that ten seasons to produce a more satisfying ending would not have been out of bounds. So I really wish someone would explain it to me.
I have a couple theories on why wow is taking so long. I think the tv show used some of his endings and he’s trying to rewrite to not have the same outcome. Or he has just wrote himself into a corner and can’t work it out. My last idea is he is writing both winds of winter and dream of spring at the same time, this is why it is taking so long… but who knows really these are just my thoughts. Winter is coming…
I also think this is the deal.. he will release them both say that's it there ya go these are MY characters I can kill whomever I choose it's my story it is done finito... leave me alone😂. Plus he is going to be super busy once the spin offs resume as well as hotd. ❤
@@moondra3481 he has not written the books lol but I think you are 100% correct the spin offs are keeping him distracted which is why we will likely never get the books. The day George greenlit GoT as a show is the day any hopes of him finishing the story died. That’s my theory anyway. He did always want it to be a show to begin with but it just couldn’t be done back in the 90s. Then one day when he is most of the way through the series the opportunity finally presents itself and he took it. He was banking on the show successfully completing the story so he wouldn’t have to only it didn’t work out the way he hoped.
You can only hope. Stephen King finished The Dark Tower saga pretty quick with the last two books. I was very surprised. Maybe George is on the same plateau. Not holding my breath. Two different writers, king puts out a book almost every 2 or 3 years, which have been pretty great. Maybe George is frustrated with his great saga. Give Stephen a call for help.
just finished re-watching GoT after the the first season of HotD ended , and I feel robbed that we didn't get the ending we deserved, re-watching made me realise the amount of writing mistakes that happened in the show , ser Barristan's death , Arya's marvel plot armor doing parkour with an open belly and so much more. House of the dragon on the other hand , Loved everything about it , especially Viserys's last walk to the throne
because writing an entire book series complete with your own wordbuilding is .... hard. imagine that. imagine creating something actually being real work.
All of how the show ended is 100% the fault of George being lazy. D&D were hired to adapt books into TV shows. Which the did an amazing job of. They weren’t hired to finish the story. They quit listening to him cause he was wanting to film every plot line in the books to give himself more time. He himself said they should have done 5 more seasons. It just doesn’t translate to good TV. It’s too many plot lines. Either each episode would have 5 minutes devoted to each plot line or you’d go episodes between seeing major characters.
George RR Martin apparently doesn't want to write any more Game of Thrones books either! I think the problems with the TV series resulted mainly from this and are as much his fault as the show's writers who were left with no books to adapt the last seasons from.
I'll have to play devil's advocate a bit here. Let's be honest: if the very creator of the series is taking more than a decade to find a conclusion to the narrative, imagine the pressure that would fall on D&D if they had accepted to create an epic conclusion to the series, respecting all narrative arcs, etc. They knew very well what would happen if they tried to create a perfect ending. I'm not trying to justify, but it's more than double the work to have to write a script (aka R R Martin's job) and still direct a television series.
To be honest, I understand them, I would be bored to hell working on the same project for years. But they couldn't replace them because of the risks of bringing new authors.
Well it wouldnt of been like this if he had finished his novel. At the end it falls back on him. Hope he does finish his book soon and a Dream of Spring
5:30 George being cast out from one of the greatest shows of all time, then, at the peak of it's popularity, highlighting a much less popular show that's also one of the greatest of all time, is so poetic
I’ve wondered; if the books weren’t done, why was the show made in the first place? Wouldn’t the smart thing be to WAIT until the author is done before you adapt their work? Just doesn’t make sense.
Some people are saying D&D bought the rights but I could not find that anywhere. From whatever research I did, I could come up with was that D&D chatted with Martin’s literary agent and then they approached HBO. That said it is clear that HBO wanted more episodes. It is a profitable franchise and at least till Season 5, almost everyone loved The Game of Thrones. It started dipping in Season 6 (some argue even 5 since GRRM stopped writing) and was ordinary in 7, and don’t want to even think 8 existed. GRRM also wanted more episodes. So to think that it had 73 episodes instead of 100 is crazy.
I watched an interview with Dan and Dave and said If the fans were upset with the writing it was because George wasnt giving them sorce material for the show any longer, so maybe thats why they shut him out of the writers room. They had already signed a deal before the show ended so they were just ready to go! The last two seasons were hard to watch, but I absolutely loved GOT!❤
Martin kinda rubs me the wrong way. Martin ASSURED HBO that he would be done writing by the time they got to that point in the show. Martin went back on his deal, gave them the ending, and now bad mouths the people who made GoT as famous as it is cause it sucked. They didn’t sign on to finish HIS story for him. Show gets bad as soon as they run out of book material
As much as I hate to say it the ending of the show is the canon ending to the story until George finishes the series himself. With the continued efforts to pump out spin off shows I’m convinced it will never happen which is why I blame George as much if not more than D&D for the predicament we are all in.
My point was George is not going to finish the series so unless someone else writes it then it’s the only ending we are ever going to get. You can call it not canon but I bet everybody who was happy with the shows ending (as hard as that is to believe) will see it as the canon ending and without another ending to point to I can’t really see how they would be wrong in thinking that.
I'm of 2 minds with this because on the one hand, D&D made something so shockingly bad. Like there's a noticeable difference between trying and not sticking the landing and someone very clearly not caring anymore. That said, this man still has released the next book, and there's meant to be another after in like twice the length of the entire TV show so I don't really understand what he expected to happen. Even if they adapted every minor character in the books, they would have run out of material to pull from unless they spun their wheels forever to not pay anything off and if that was the case, do we really think the show would last this long, let alone how long it would take for him to drop both books? I think people let him off the hook for the show too much because frankly, it was never gonna end well since he very clearly doesn't know where to go himself. How can we honestly expect anyone else to make a satisfying ending when he can't even figure out what to write himself in over a decade? Especially when they were only supposed to adapt the source material, they were never meant to make up the ending or make up large parts of the story. I am not defending D&D but at this point, George had the power to prove he was in the right but he's still here just talking, making excuses, saying it's almost done year after year so it seems kind of ridiculous to expect he wasn't pissing people off with this wishy washy nature behind the scenes of the show when I guarantee you, they all went into the show expecting the books to come out, or at least one of the books to come out, long before they got to the point they did because TV shows are never guaranteed to continue, most shows never get as many seasons as GOT did so it seems wild for George to throw shade about the show not lasting longer when he still hasn't delivered himself. Both sides are as to blame for this as the other IMO.
Act like seasons 6, 7, and 8 did not exist, and re do them, completing at season 10. I want to see the Wheel Break, I want the Night King to be resolved in the 10th season. I want to follow Varys, after Littlefinger. I want to find out that Varys is a Wizard, and his hatred was misdirected, and Varys learns of the Warlock. Lady Stoneheart-season 7&8? How about the Mysterious lady of Quaith. Maybe season 10 should end with some things resolved, and other things not.
@@rasalpaul4574 personally I was 'OK' with season 6. Not what I would have done like this, or have wanted, but if that season was setting the low bar of expectations, I could take it, as a viewer. Seven and eight were unacceptable, aside from the SFX, Actors, and Crew.
@@chamirus1 I liked the idea of the Dorne people and Nation, but yeah, if they had 5 more seasons to work with in season 5, the Dorne, and other people, like the Gold Cloaks, would have been fleshed out and treated with reverence.
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Okay - cause it's you. This sponsor of yours, do you really trust them? I don't have a much internet presence, but I'm not blind either and I know every search is recorded somewhere, just for starters. And sometimes, in the heat of a conversation on UA-cam, snips of personal info make their way into the system. I have no social media activity at all, unless you count YT, no real internet presence, don't have a homepage, channel, blog or anything like it. Would you still suggest I use Incogni and have them clean up after me? I've known you from your channel since you started, so I'm asking for your honest opinion.
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In order to remove your sensitive data from the Internet sites you need to send your sensitive data to an Internet site. Sounds like a plan!
Dude ,THIS SEGMENT STARTED OFF REALLY HOOD UNTIL YOU SLIMLY STARTED THE IDENTITY THING , THATS WHEN WE REALIZED YOU WERENT TALKING ABOUT GoT , WELL WE MOVED ON TO 'DUST '
GoT was the greatest show EVER ! WE ALL HOPED IT WOULD CONTINUE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE CREATURES CAME OUT OF THE CAVE ATTACKING THE HUMANS , THIS WAS GOING TO BE AN EPIC BATTLE FOR SURVIVAL , IT WOULD HAVE ALIGNED ALL IN THE BATTLE AGAINST EVIL ...TOO BAD GREED GOT IN THE WAY , BUT
IN THE END D&D GOT NOTHING , BONE BROKE , AND AT THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE .
GOES AROUND COMES AROUND .GEORGE WELL HE GOT LAZY , HE GOT HIS ALSO ....TOO BAD ,WHAT DRUGS CAN DO TO YOU...
Dan and Dave got an offer to work on the Star Wars franchise and that's when D&D decided to ditch GoT and end it as quickly as possible. They basically got greedy and impatient. That's when the writing on GoT took a nosedive and the ending pissed off everyone. Oh, and because GoT ended so badly, Lucasfilm then withdrew their offer to D&D so both of them ended up with nothing.
The sweetest karma. Any idea if they've worked on anything since GoT?
@@JuicebyJay hopefully they’re working on their cars which are sitting on cinder blocks in their driveways!
The thing is, they could have just stayed on as producers and left to do Star Wars while someone else ran with GoT.
Hope they never get work again
GOOD. F### Those Hacks!
I am glad to hear GRRM didn't like the last season any more than I did.
*GRRM 😂
@@Se7eNBlack Haha ok thanks, I will correct it.
Last Season was trash
idk why he didn’t write it himself
At least they made a last season. Martin can't get there himself
If we as fans hated the last season, just imagine how much George as the creator hated it
Who cares it’s his fault..he should have finished the books
@@MarcusM334 Yep, I agree.
I liked s8 and know a lot of other book fans who loved it too. Really only the twitter mob hated it
Then why he didn’t say anything when he saw them destroying his masterpiece
@@kermitdfrog1511d&d we know this is ur alt account
HBO should have fired Dan and Dave the moment they started pushing for shorter seasons and episode counts. Hopefully they don't allow something like that to happen again. If you are arguing for that, then your heart clearly isn't in it anymore.
They should have willingly handed it off to someone else if they truly loved the story and cared about it as much as they once claimed.
It's because George sold the the show rights to Dan and Dave instead of a specific studio. He thought it would be better that way. Obviously, he was wrong...
@@HnF128 Oh I didn't know that he sold it to them. But HBO picked it up so I'm curious as to what they could have done besides just cancelling it?
I hope HOTD will have a great ending than GOT now that D&D is not involved
@DivertingTales Right?! The producers get more hate than they deserve. They were hired to adapt a story, not write it themselves. GRRM is at fault for the trash ending, too since he stubbornly refuses to finish TWOW. Twelve years and counting......
George said there was plenty of material for more seasons but david and dan “wanted a life” and to do other things. Fair enough. Well and good. Then go have your life and do other things and let someone else continue with the extra seasons. Their attitude towards it seemed awfully selfish to me.
Not selfish, it was spiteful.
And maybe D&D wanted GRRM to finish the books much like JK Rowling finished hers and all leave on a happy note.
@@spirittammykthat makes no kind of sense. They approached GRRM when it was an unfinished series with huge time gaps between published works. It’s more on them than George for how they handled the Tv show. I get you and other “fans “are butthurt but blaming George for how the show turned out is misplaced anger. He’s always been a slow writer, expecting differently is just a set up for disappointment
Hbo had their pick of the best writers in Hollywood to jump in and pick up the show anytime Dan and Dave wanted to step away. There is no writer in Hollywood who would not have jumped at the chance if their agent said Game of Thrones is looking for writers. What happened with the show was really unfair to George, the fans, and the cast and crew. Such a bummer.
@@PrismverseTales
Very true.
Every time I hear a promise for the last two books I kinda feel like Theon in his cell. You want to hear the words, but you know you can't trust them.
You mean Reek?
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER YOUR NAME
well technically in WoW he’s Theon again. he kinda makes a big deal of it. tho he’s still a prisoner and at first thinks he’s back in his cell under the dreadfort at the beginning of the chapter.
I honestly get the feeling GRRM is giving some time before he releases book six, just to let stink of what D&D did clear from the air.
If only we can pursue HBO to get new writers and re shoot the story after season 5. I'd watch it, 10 times over
@@kandiekane.After season 4 it didn't make any sense
The actors have aged already and I have never heard about anything remotely similar in the history of cinema. Probably because you would never reach the same audience levels close to the first time streaming and there would always be a confusion with two different endings. Its beyond repairable. The worse it is. They spoiled potentially the best series ever because of their greed? Impatience? The audience could tell, the critics could tell, the actors and the author of the books were in horror real time. No one could do anything...... Unbelievable professional failure from both of them.
@@kandiekane. I agree with you. Season 6 was overall very good but flawed
Why? We still don't even know the ending. HBO would have to write a new ending and why would it be good when writing fantasy novels isn't their expertise in the first place? They don't even know how to hire a writer to write a fantasy novel, never mind two. No, the ending is the ending forever. The moment is gone. No one will ever go back to that series. It's possible far into the future when George is dead and AI has completed his novels that someone will again put out a series based on the main story. But don't hold your breath. It will be decades.
@@danielsander3576Deadwood is the closest thing I can think of and that was so good nobody ever talks about it.
I think the Hound relieving himself in the river that Lady Stoneheart was supposed to be pulled out of was a hard and public middle finger to George. I see that as a for sure cutoff point for him working with them at all.
I’m glad someone else caught that. I remember thinking pretty much the exact same thing when that aired.
Yes!
My first thought when I saw that
No, that was D and D pissing on the book fans.
@@jaycee2070 def that too
George doesnt need to be angry about it. There’s plenty of anger out here in the fandom. All he needs to do is WRITE❣️
He will never finish and has no reason too. He can just continue to say he’s working on it and that his ending is way better. At this point whatever the ending is will be disappointing, it’s been too long and the expectations continue to grow.
Yup, I don't care at all how he feels about anything at all at this point. I actually enjoy the offense that he may feel- meet karma Mr. Martin.
@@DarthJacobi He never actually said that his ending would be better, he said that his ending would be kinda similar to the show, and many theorized that after the S8 backlash he scratched his ending off. He also said that for him to write Asoiaf he has to be absolutely focused on that single task and he can't do it effectively after blowing up the way he did post GoT.
😂 George - FOCUS. 😂
It’s his universe, these are his characters and this is his story. GRRM deserved a say in everything. EVERYTHING. He’s literally THE CREATOR. D&D destroyed what could been the greatest and the biggest show ever made with the last two seasons for whatever the reasons might have been. To a point where it has been erased from pop culture and no one talks about it anymore. It’s kinda sad coz I was a huuuuge GoT fan.
His fault. He should have signed a contract similar to how J.K Rowlings signed on with WB where she had to have approval over every script and casting choice.
This is all true. He sold the rights anyway… 😐
👃👃👃...Whaddyou expect?
It doesn't matter what he deserved, but what he signed. That's all, really. Let's just all move on and forget a decade of our lives in entertainment. It's like we spent that time in TV prison.
no he doesnt.
Sounds like D&D started to believe they were responsible for the success of the show and thought they didn't need GRRM. And, of course, their own hubris resulted not only in their downfall but the downfall of the show as well.
They were arrogant and thought they knew how the story should go in their minds
I do wonder if they became too arrogant as they did change quite a bit from the orignal story
@@ACinemafanatic nonsense. all the major plot point endings were told to them by GRRM before the show even started. this is just complete revisionist history.
I don't know how George could sell information that he hadn't yet finished writing himself. I think lots of people think it makes more sense for John Snow to kill the Night King, and for Arya to kill Cercei. Perhaps there's something to that. I think George is having a difficult time wrapping it up himself. And I hope he doesn't feel in any way obligated to do anything in the books just because it was shown that way in the Show Series. They are independent. I just hope George's ending has a better reception than Dave and Dan's.
@doublestrokeroll Jamie's last arc in the book is the exact opposite from the show. This book came out twonurars before the last season. So no they changed major plot points
Interesting that GOT started going downhill once GRRM was out of the loop.
Funny how that works
It begs the question: did he leave because it started going downhill or it went dowhill because he left?
@@JoVicttor49
The former.
The writing was definitely on the wall with writing out tysha, killing Shea in self defense, and putting a crossbow bolt in tywins gut because Tyrion didn't like it when he said "whore."
@@eddardgreybeardwriting tysha out was a good call on the show . No piint ro her charcter. Its redundant with shaes and moreover the audience never met her so you might as well give her role to someone they connect with instead😊
@@GJBedrin
That's foolish thinking.
It completely shaped the entirety of his relationship with tywin, Jaime, Shae, and every woman he's ever been with.
And what it means to be a Lannister.
You could say it was the Pinnacle character defining moment for him.
They wrote that out, and they completely wrote out Tyrion.
And you obviously haven't read the dang books because they didn't even need to cast her. All the audience needed to know is how that moment affected Tyrion and how it shapes his relationship with basically everyone.
This would be like making Jon Snow a legit Stark, or having Bran never thrown from the window by Jaime, or perhaps never having Ned executed in the first season.
Hollywood almost always does this with great novels, these directors/show runners think they know better than the award winning authors of these IP's, their egos are unreal. When will executives learn to rein these producers/show runners in and make them stick to the IP they spent a fortune to buy, look what the show runner did to the Witcher, she refused to stick to the books and destroyed the show. Thankfully Dan and Dave have hardly worked since the season 8 disaster.
It really is crazy. How many times can you watch someone make the same mistakes before you learn from it? Apparently the answer is.. quite a lot
Not to defend D&D, but GRRM wanted HBO to halt the show until he finished the books. He wanted HBO to sit atop the actors contracts for years - while paying them and the "kids" got older and the hype diminished year after year after year. He's an impractical man. It's impossible to make a show this expensive to last for 13 seasons. D&D did a bad job, yes. But GRRM also let us down.
Absolutely. GRRM has some nerve to be angry when he didn’t finish the books, despite undertaking a filming project with HBO, actors, and many dedicated staffers dependent on his progress. Say what you want but at least JK Rowling FINISHED the series that made her famous. She has a legacy. GRRM has nothing but my disappointment and low key contempt until the books are released
I agree with you 100%
And we still dont have that book
@@edstringer1138 it really feels like he wrote himself into a corner.
@@joseortega3257 Agreed , and now he is pouting
I was thinking about George RRM tell once that The Red Wedding chapter was really hard for him to write and in fact he wrote the rest of the book first and came back to finish this chapter last. Just because it was emotionally the most difficult- killing off characters he loved and was attached to. Maybe this is similar with Winds. My understanding is that this book is likely meant to be the darkest of the series, with devastation, loss, despair throughout the seven kingdoms. It's probably not fun to write chapter after chapter of such bleak landscape, your beloved characters suffering and dying
Yeah, but he also brought Catelyn back to life at the end of the book too. Another reason why the show went downhill after season 4, they omitted some of the coolest parts of the later books.
D&d rushed it alright, coz they wanted to work with kateleen Kennedy 🤢 and Disney on a star wars project...what happend that now,??were is that project?? Lol
@@Rev_Goose They explained why Catelyn wasn't brought back. They wanted to keep the surprise of Jon coming back to life & if they had brought Catelyn back, it may have ruined it. They didn't want what was dead to never actually die, essentially. If too many characters "die" then come back, it can end up just seeming like a novelty. And something that's just used for shock value.
Nope. It’s been 12 years. He’s given up. Period.
Two completely different usages of being ressurrected. One being, beric dondarion pouring his life into catlyn after her being dead for a while@@mamsy1169 her coming back as a half zombie, absolutely vengeful and looking to punish anyone who wronged her and the starks (a great story development). Meanwhile john was killed off completely randomly with his story being imcomplete, clearly obviously going to get res'd as mellisandre just happens to be nearby. It was all very obvious.
A couple of points. 1 - I doubt anyone will be arguing in any seriousness as to what the real ending will be as long as the written story is completed. 2 - the remark about actors perhaps wanting to go on to other projects - as much as that is true and bigger scale doesn't always mean better things, I can't think of a single actor who has been in anything remotely as popular by comparison to their roles in GoT, since the end of the show. Do we know if any of the actors actually felt 'done with' their roles and were happy it didn't go on longer? We know that Emilia and Kit both felt gutted personally and that might be an understatement.
I'm sure you realise this, and it's probably just the wording, but it isn't necessarily going on to bigger and better projects. It's about moving on to different projects. Very few actors want to be stuck in the same role (or same type of role) for their careers. To answer your question that came after that, the two that immediately spring to mind are Jason Momoa, who I'd argue found greater success with Aquaman (even though DC+WB are screwing that up), followed by Pedro Pascal who has had two massively successful hit shows after GOT, plus other stuff. Of course it helps that their GOT runs were limited and they weren't part of the main characters but it still fits the criteria. 🙂
Hind-site 20:20
@@Elwaves2925 What is there to move to from the biggest TV show ever at the time?
@@brettvandermeer5297 As I said, other projects. Whether they reach the highs of GOT isn't really important as there are other good, even great shows out there.
Maybe my grandson will have the honor to read TWOW
Dan and Dave had One Job: To adapt the NOVELS in "A Song of Ice and Fire" into an HBO series. There's just one problem. Dan and Dave ran out of finished novels, and likely only had a cliff's notes equivalent of material for The Winds of Winter, and at the most, bullet points of events that had to happen in A Dream of Spring. Because Martin FAILED to deliver the remaining two books in his novel series. And now, even after all these years, he STILL hasn't finished ONE of the two books.
Also, I distinctly remember watching a video where Martin clearly stated that the way the show ended was pretty much the way the books would end, though he said that there would be more character perspectives in the books.
So tell me how it's really Dan and Dave's fault?
Their biggest mistake was undertaking the project when the source material wasn't anywhere near complete. I think they assumed that Martin would care enough about his career as a writer to actually get Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring done while the show was being produced.. I did the figures and determined that had he written something like 402 words a day, five days a week, he could have delivered Winds of Winter in the form of a novel the same length as A Game of Thrones by the midpoint of Season 4, and A Dream of Spring at the same length by end of Season 7. The gap between 7 and 8 would have allowed the final books full adaptation. But no. Martin didn't really even get started good with writing Winds of Winter until after the show ended. So Dan and Dave had no choice but to use the limited resources they had to write the ending of the story FOR martin. That wasn't their job.
I lay the failure of Season 7, and to a greater degree, Season 8 at Martin's feet. And if Martin was so unsatisfied with Dan and Dave's handling of the as-yet unwritten novels' material, then why didn't he, as an executive producer, step in and put them in their place and make sure they got it on track.
Remember, like I said, Martin said that the books would end like the show ended. So, he must not have been all that disappointed.
When you are adapting something, you shouldn't have to feel like you're having to lay down tracks in front of a moving train.
They also didn't do a good job of adapting the book to the show.
@@somethingelse9228 Please tell me you were not expecting a 1:1 adaptation from page to screen...
100%. They're objectively great adapters, as seen by how popular the show was and it's ratings during S1-7, but the more I see George procrastinate, the more I imagine he wasn't fun to work with. That said, it's tough to say that if the books were finished if D&D still wouldn't have grown tired of working on the same thing.
George has never said what you claim. In fact, George has strongly hinted at the opposite of what you claim.
@@jared_r It was in a video that I can't seem to find now. He was talking about the ending he had planned for the series and whether or not he should change the ending for the books. He rambled a bit in his usual way, then concluded that he would be keeping it as planned, and that it is the additional character perspectives that will set the book ending apart from the show ending, even if the events play out the same.. I remember thinking, when he said it, "So much for the earlier statement that the show was doing its own thing, while he was going to do his." I also thought it was nice and convenient that D&D practically wrote the ending of his story and now all he needed to do was come in and fill in the story arcs that are in the books but not in the shows.
I mean, really... At this point, does it even matter? He STILL hasn't finished Winds of Winter. There's no telling whether or not he'll even start Dream of Spring. It's anyone's guess when or if we will ever know how he's handling the book ending.
Regardless, Martin dropped the freaking ball. He was SUPPOSED to have written the books, and Dan and Dave were supposed to adapt them. He didn't write a single book in NINE YEARS! Dan and Dave were effectively laying the track in front of the train, while running out of rails.
George should have maybe wrote the remaining 2 books and gave them the content everybody wanted instead of them having to make it up on the fly.
He will literally do anything other than finish these books.
They didn't have to make up everything "on the fly"! Aegons prophecy laid out the way it should have ended. Now with the way GOT ended the prophecy was just thrown out the window.
@@Kjai537Of course they were making it up on the fly. Where do you think the material for the last 2 seasons was coming from?
@@Kjai537It mostly ended how it was suppose to, they just didn’t put all the build up to it.
It’s GRRM fault anyway.
@@Garybell09yup…that’s was George’s ending more or less
This man has like a 30 book "side project". He's never going to finish this series. He doesnt care about it anymore.
It pisses me off that they already had the ending repeated constantly in Aegon Targaryen’s prophetic dream and it didn’t happen. It’s the most irritating thing ever. It makes the whole prophecy irrelevant.
???
@@umwhajohn snow being a true Targaryen and a male should of took the throne.
Imagine hearing this prophecy in House of Dragon also now 😂
That "prophecy", like the Valyrian Steel dagger, was entirely retconned in House of the Dragon so as to trade off the popularity of GoT.
if they didnt cut characters we get season 9-11. Young griff is a game changer and dorn is an addition plot.
Young Griff was one of GRRM's biggest errors. Introducing major characters so late in the books is and always has been a bad idea, and the myriad characters he introduced in the last (and probably final) book published are undoubtedly a major reason he can't finish the books. At this rate he'd need three more books to resolve everything - and that would likely stretch to four because he's only happy when he's embellishing and expanding the story, not when he has to resolve things. Young Griff was a non-essential character so far as the TV show was concerned, and would have unnecessarily complicated things. No, no need for the Cheesemonger's son, aka the Mummer's Dragon.
The crime that D&D committed is that they didn’t want to do the show anymore but refused to resign and let someone else who cared finish it.
HBO GOT ended so out of character of how the show was heading. I honestly would have accepted Cersei winning at the end over the train wreck the writers threw at us.
I would have accepted the Night King winning.
@@xxlCortez I could accept that as well. Anything but the train wreck they gave us.
Hopefully we will live long enough to see a GOT remake. I actually think I have a better chance of seeing a remake in my lifetime then ever reading the final book. I am now sad while typing this, because I realize that it is the truth.
Obviously, the show went down hill rapidly once George was no longer involved. That being said if he no longer wanted to be directly invovled, it makes sense that the people involved with the show are going to work effeciently and not include George. What did he expect that would ask his approval on every script? You either are working oni it or you are not. I think this is just George's way of letting us know that after season 4 it is no his story. And we as fans can not expect some TV writers to be anywhere near the quality of writer that George is.
Rapidly? 5 6 7 were great seasons
@@YagamisMouththe dialogue was written by teenage brains. The show reached a climactic point so it felt big but they really had no clue how to make it feel as big. Just think about s1 to s4 with GRRM part of it and the way they built up the intensity, and then go back to s5-s8 and really listen to the quality of dialogue. They’re idiots that rode the hype that have no clue how to write and had a great budget to spend on amazing cgi(not s8).
@@NakulKrishna disagree season 5 and 6 were outstanding
@@YagamisMouth
They were nonsensical.
The dorne storyline itself was a dumpster fire.
@@NakulKrishnastarts going downhill in 5. By 7 it’s really bad. By 8 it is The Room of television.
people noticed the downfall in season 5, I felt it in season 7 where everyone can just teleport. It's so strange, in early season it takes them a few episodes to get to the next kingdom, showing us how big the world is.
D&D still gave the only ending for GoT we'll ever get.
Prove me wrong George, prove me wrong.
I am quite sure, that he has the ending already in detail available, with most of the major events in between. Its just a total mess and he wants tl make it perfect. As soon he is 6feet under, the pubisher will send in an executor to sort all the notes and write a final with as much grrm as possible. Look at lord of the rings, where we just got another book a few years ago, which is claimed cowritten by jrr tolkien
This right here!!
@@MrInvinciblewarriorProblem is that GRRM stated he doesn’t have all this exhaustive notes and documentation that Robert Jordan had. Most of it is in his head
I mean… The whole damn series”The Last Kingdom”!was freaking awesome. So he’s not wrong.
The last episode literally was the same let down as GoT's last episode. The writers just had to ruin a great series. In my opinion the next to last show was the real ending.
I’m reminded of the way Clive Cussler’s works have been treated on film. He wrote books that were excellent movie scripts and the studios just wiped their butts with them.
Unfortunately, when a writer makes the deal to have their work adapted, they take the chance on how it will turn out. George is still pretty lucky that the series had some great episodes and that it led to him getting many more opportunities.
I don't think he's ungrateful, more or less I think he is just being truthful about the ending not being the direction (if he would ever finish them 🥴🥴🥴) the books are going to go in.
And that's why he'll never finish the story himself. The show destroyed his fucks to give. I wish he'd just tell us his ending in a one paragraph statement before he has a heart attack.
@@Swearengen1980If anything the success of the show made him procrastinate more. If he cared enough he would try to correct the mistake the TV show made
@@firemaster9994 It appears you missed my point.
@@firemaster9994 Yeah, instead of criticizing the series that took his career to new heights, use that energy to finally show us what direction things could have taken. Stop whining and prove you had something that was so much better.
I think the show ended the way the books will, but... the show is like your friend telling you the plot of movie he just saw. He's leaving out lot of detail and some things don't make sense, but the broad strokes are there.
Mister Martin talking about his book and saying: " 'Winter' is coming I told you long ago, and so it is" is such a genius and clever line
Curious, why doesn't GRRM "retcon" the unwanted seasons or events in the upcoming Snow series? I bet most of the characters are willing to come back.
Why doesn't he retcon it in the books he has yet to release to finish the series?
I mean, I think if they were going to do that, they should've done it just a couple years after the series ended. Or maybe even just did a 'movie' to fix the finale to fit Georgie's vision. It's been 4 years. Some of the actors would probably come back but most of them have probably moved on and revisiting it would only exacerbate their PTSD that D&D caused. I mean so much of the cast was displeased. Not to mention, the cast has aged. Of course us die hard fans wouldn't focus on that. We live for the story. But I think majority of the viewers weren't book readers so therefore they would be more focused on how different everyone looked. I mean look at all the bullshit Emilia Clarke gets for aging naturally. A lot of factors why... also, maybe it's been mentioned, and HBO doesn't want to take that gamble.
@@JuicebyJay "Georgie's vison" That's assuming he has one, still 2 books to go years after the show ended so.... Not sure what vision you're talking about
you can’t fix four seasons of development(proper or unproper) in a movie. and frankly, nor can a network recind its own show and do another one presenting it as “the good continuation”. @@JuicebyJay
@@ragnar97100% he should retcon them in the books. The tv stuff is only ensuring we might never have anymore book material and it’s for that reason I blame George about as much as D&D for the predicament we are currently in.
GRRM should have finished writing his books like he promised to do. The show changed when they went from source material to an outline of what could happen.
They had plenty book materials for Season 5-6: Varys and Young Griffs’ Blackfyre Conspiracy, Ariane Martell, the Dormish and Sand Snakes conspiracy, Lovecraftian Euron Greyjoy, Jaqen H’gar in Old Town, etc.
I agree 100%
Frankly, my compassion for the complaints of a guy who happily sold half a story for 15 million dollars/season is pretty limited.
Not to mention - his comments plainly throw shade not only at the show, but (intentionally or not) at himself, too: praising The Last Kingdom, whose author managed to write 7 novels in the time since GoT started, and Endgame which demonstrated how to actually *finish* a long-running story.
YAWN. When he finishes the books (or at least publishes the next one that has now been 10+ years since the last book) I'll be interested in his complaints.
I don't trust a word George says. He's had over a decade to finish the book but he didn't.
And even if wow came we will never able to read ados
This guy is 75 years old. The novel is 12 years late.
He will never finish it. There is only one end of GOT, the one in the TV series.
Didn’t he promise a book to be released during the show’s run? We’re years past the show being over and still no book.
D&D made mistakes but they didn’t exist in a bubble - other people had opportunities to jump in. And GRRM wanting the show to continue past eight seasons… well then give them more material.
could there be a tv show adaptation in the future of a song of ice and fire, one which stays 100% on point with the books ? what would be the chances of that
Depending on how big the IP continues to be and whether or not whole streaming fiasco hasn’t swallowed the studios whole, I could see HBO/WB (or maybe a new owner of the IP) giving it a go to keep the IP going.
George is in no position to complain. He cashed the check. Finish the story, George.
On the other hand they simply had nothing new to work with since the first season aired. I doubt anyone would have predicted that they would have no new material available until the end of the show, and that they suddenly would need to become writers of the story who can consult with the author, rather than adaptors. It's really unfortunate how this all went down, starting with one of the best if not the best series in television and then degrading like that. It feels like this story is just not meant to be finished properly in any shape or form.
It's easier to point fingers.. but the reality is HBO could have got a new director and re involved George to continue more seasons but they cleaned their hands and this is the conclusion. Yes, the directors wanted to give the conclusion for the show, but they also have a lot of bosses and producers above them.. so I can't really blame all to the directors
after listening to this, I am really hopeful that Oda (author and artist of One Piece) keeps his creative control of the adaptation. While the showrunners of the OPLA seem much more into it than DD ever seemed to me, distater of deviation can always strike
Hollyweird is a petty vain industry. George slighted Dan and Dave by stepping back, and slighting him on is blog. He chose to not be involved, so he gets what he deserves. A broken legacy. He will never finish his books.
Back when Lost was on air they negotiated six seasons 120 episodes and it did the show a fantastic service. During the middle of the show in season 3 for the first six episodes that was a writer strike that severely hampered the quality. A lot of people tuned out at that time.
Sadly they ended up missing what would end up being the next 16 episodes which was some of the greatest TV ever put the screen. You will hear many people complain about season 4 5 and 6 of Lost however they were all just as good and due to them no longer needing filler episodes they stuck the landing perfectly. This was an ending they had always known they were going to get to since the beginning unlike other shows.
The problem with Lost is that requires multiple watch throughs in order to understand the ending and purpose of the show, and most people who have a negative reaction to the show refuse to watch it a second time or even finish the first time due to negative reviews or their own experience. This pretty much guarantees that the show cannot work the way it was intended: for you to rewatch, rewatch, rewatch, rewatch, and realize that with every rewatch you are actually picking up new clues to this giant tapestry and realizing that it's much more complicated and bigger than you ever thought it was the first three or four times through.
Only once you begin to see what is truly going on can you understand how the ending is supposed to be.
Lucky for me when it first came out I recorded it on VHS and would always replay the episode two or three times right after it aired. I spent 3 hours watching each episode that very night. It would come on Wednesdays at 8:00 and I would stay up till 11:00 watching the episode and using slow motion and pause and taking notes and really trying to break it down. I was also fortunate to have someone else watch with me and we would tag team it to make sure we fully understood everything, and then we would go online to figure out or cross-reference everything. This was in the earlier days of the internet when you didn't have UA-cam like we have today.
The fact of the matter is if you didn't do all of these things you probably think that none of it makes sense.
I would encourage you to watch the entire show again and then watch it again and then watch it again. Buy the books, (there are 3 small Lost novels which help the story), then there is Bad Twin, And then you need to learn about the valenzetti equation, and then you need to play the alternate reality game, and you have to do all of the other "side quests" so to speak.
Just watching the show is not enough. If you do all of that I guarantee you your experience during the show will be much different. And the time to do the extracurricular activity is between season 1 and season 2. Do it too early or too late and you will ruin the experience.
Hopefully for those people who are Game of thrones fans and miss all of the theory crafting and want to go back and do it over again but realize that they cannot fix Game of thrones This will help you realize that you can go back to Lost and fix it. There is a perfectly good show there that most of the world is completely wrong about.
I should know, I've seen it over 15 times and in the world's leading expert on it. I can confidently say that.
Wow almost 4 years later and we're all still pissed off hahah . Damn I think this is a first for television, where a massive fan base feels absolutely betrayed , where the show has been completely forgotten
The last kingdom was amazing though too. I didn’t know GRRM gave them a nod or that it happened during the final season 😅
Since he got out of the writers room after season 4, he could focus on winds of winter???? That was wishful thinking huh?
Even though he's put Winds off for 50 years, I'm still as excited today as I was when he released his first chapter on the blog. Please George.. please knock this out of the park. We're itching.
Maybe if he wrote faster than snail's pace, they wouldn't have had to make stuff up?
I thought I would never say it, but I DO NOT CARE about WoW any longer... It's been too long coming and I've moved on with my life and other things due to the extended wait...
To be fair, maybe if GRRM had of put as much effort into finishing his books as he did in soaking up the fame from how well the show was doing, then it might not have ended as such a clusterfuck.....
Book One told us there are dragons elsewhere. Remember, Bran saw them warging.. the books are so great. I hope he does finish.
I love GRRM. I don’t care whether he gives another book or not. The ones he gave us are pretty damn special
If he really wanted to save the show, he would've finished the booms so the writers could just adapt the books like they used to
What I don't understand, is how Dan and Dave were so influential. All the biggest hitters, HPO, Martin, wanted more. Why didn't they just sack D&D or get new show runners to do it properly? Contracts I'm guessing...
Ok I get it. But honestly George kind of have no one to blame but himself. The show literally caught up to his books and he still was not done. But I do agreed, D and D grew super big and thought they can do no wrong. But boy was that not the case.
In all fairness to D&D, there were some fantastic episodes after Season 4, so George can't take credit for those. And George allowed the disappointing ending to happen. He had ample time to finish the Winds of Winter, but got "sidetracked" with other BS. Had he kept up with the production schedule, we likely wouldn't have the disappointing ending (but we're assuming that whatever ending George eventually comes up with, it won't be disappointing and that's certainly not a given). So no matter how much shade he wants to throw at D&D, D&D have more than enough shade to throw back at him for his delays and procrastination.
I'm sorry but I don't believe the fans of the books will ever see the written end of this great series of novels. I sadly don't see it happening.
Truman Capote will come back to life and finish “Answered Prayers” before George RR Martin finishes “The Winds of Winter“ and “A Dream of Spring“
I think this is one reason he has not finished the books. I think he is afraid of how it will be received. I think he is at a loss on how to end it.
Question:
Do you know When the books📚 will be for purchase ready?
His writing style isn't an architect but a Gardner.....translating to even he has no idea what could or even what will or in the case of Winds what has happened to the various characters, which is on the one hand hopeful, yet if you are trying to not only to craft an overall storyline but write a TV show under deadlines due to contracts that held the financial futures of the cast and crew in jeopardy. It might take lifetimes for him to discover what could happen and how he wants to tell it because he is floundering for closure. I didn't initially enjoy the final product but the story as well as the books are left up to interpretation until he finalizes his gardening process and harvests results. HBO and the cast and crew are reality, expectations were real. George is still trying to muster confidence on pulling everything together and writing a plot down the long ways. Much patience and passion to you and your channel I love your possible take on season 8 and 9 they took more time and energy than George has for this era of the series.
He stopped advising heavily after season 4 to “finish” The Winds of Winter… bro that was almost a decade ago. It’s never coming out, huh?
It really is crazy looking back how D&D put out that travesty of a last season
The nerve of GRRM shaming the producers of the show. This guy hasn't bothered to publish a page of the series for 12 years. Yeah, the last few seasons were a mess. But what were the producers supposed to do? They had zero source material. "The Lord Of The Rings" and "The Witcher" managed to royally screw their shows up with all the source material they needed. "The Lord Of The Rings" even had a movie to source. At least Benioff and Weiss, unlike Hissrich and Kemeny, didn't try to turn their show into feminist propaganda forcing the lead of the series to quit. Jordan's "Wheel Of Time" show, although slow to build, is actually doing a good job, but they too have a complete source to work from. Benioff and Weiss managed to keep it fairly interesting, if a bit hackneyed, to the end.
D&D were hired to adapt the source material into a show and they made one of the best shows in the history of television. They however are not authors capable of continuing a story they were never supposed to have to write. You don’t like how the show ended blame George.
He didn't even finish the book, no point arguing what he wants at the ending. The producers cannot wait that long....
The last seasons of GOT destroy all my feeling about the show and GRR Martin's books, I even didn't watch the new show. Martin was not a newbie in screenwriting and relationship with producers. He can shame D&D as he want but he also let all that mess happen.
If GRRM wanted 10 seasons he should have negotiated that from the start. Dan and Dave made stated very clearly from jump that they want a season for each book. GRRM is deflecting the fact that he hasn't finished Winds yet and probably never will
nothing could have given me the desire to watch The Last Kingdom more than that tweet from George
Makes you wonder how D and D'er managed to get away with nosediving the franchise into the ground.
This is a perfect example of content creators milking time. This video goes on and on but never really goes anywhere.
The video is full of lies and omissions. GRRM is a long-time fan of Marvel and Bernard Cornwell. Of course he's going to shout out their stuff when it releases. Given that GoT was releasing a show every week, these shout outs were bound to coincide with one episode or another. The stuff he was saying about creative differences was in reference to Beauty and the Beast. Even the screenshot of the article posted in the video explicitly said that it was not in reference to GoT. All I saw was a bunch of out of context tweets that were presented in a way that insinuated that GRRM was crapping on his own show when he never did any such thing.
I don't understand why GoT had to end when Dan and Dave wanted it to. They were the showrunners, yes. But I remember when another old HBO favorite of mine, True Blood, lost its showrunner, Alan Ball. I don't remember during what season he left, but the show continued for a few more seasons afterward. I guess that the contract Alan Ball had and his "ownership" of certain elements of the production, must be different than the rights Benioff and Weiss had with regard to GoT. I mean, both HBO and GRRM wanted the show to continue for a while longer. Why was it completely up to D&D? Every show has an expiration date, but GoT was so popular that ten seasons to produce a more satisfying ending would not have been out of bounds. So I really wish someone would explain it to me.
Two more seasons of what ???
I have a couple theories on why wow is taking so long. I think the tv show used some of his endings and he’s trying to rewrite to not have the same outcome. Or he has just wrote himself into a corner and can’t work it out. My last idea is he is writing both winds of winter and dream of spring at the same time, this is why it is taking so long… but who knows really these are just my thoughts.
Winter is coming…
I've a feeling both Novels are already written. He is playing with us. Sick of it really.
I also think this is the deal.. he will release them both say that's it there ya go these are MY characters I can kill whomever I choose it's my story it is done finito... leave me alone😂. Plus he is going to be super busy once the spin offs resume as well as hotd. ❤
@@moondra3481 he has not written the books lol but I think you are 100% correct the spin offs are keeping him distracted which is why we will likely never get the books. The day George greenlit GoT as a show is the day any hopes of him finishing the story died. That’s my theory anyway. He did always want it to be a show to begin with but it just couldn’t be done back in the 90s. Then one day when he is most of the way through the series the opportunity finally presents itself and he took it. He was banking on the show successfully completing the story so he wouldn’t have to only it didn’t work out the way he hoped.
You can only hope. Stephen King finished The Dark Tower saga pretty quick with the last two books. I was very surprised. Maybe George is on the same plateau. Not holding my breath. Two different writers, king puts out a book almost every 2 or 3 years, which have been pretty great. Maybe George is frustrated with his great saga. Give Stephen a call for help.
@@brianargenas1924 I agree! (Hands down to Stephen King one of my favorite horror writers next to Dean Koontz and Anne Rice)
just finished re-watching GoT after the the first season of HotD ended , and I feel robbed that we didn't get the ending we deserved, re-watching made me realise the amount of writing mistakes that happened in the show , ser Barristan's death , Arya's marvel plot armor doing parkour with an open belly and so much more. House of the dragon on the other hand , Loved everything about it , especially Viserys's last walk to the throne
If he was “out of the loop” after season 4, why hasn’t he finished writing the books?
because writing an entire book series complete with your own wordbuilding is .... hard. imagine that. imagine creating something actually being real work.
@@m3ntybD and D can’t imagine
All of how the show ended is 100% the fault of George being lazy. D&D were hired to adapt books into TV shows. Which the did an amazing job of. They weren’t hired to finish the story. They quit listening to him cause he was wanting to film every plot line in the books to give himself more time. He himself said they should have done 5 more seasons. It just doesn’t translate to good TV. It’s too many plot lines. Either each episode would have 5 minutes devoted to each plot line or you’d go episodes between seeing major characters.
George RR Martin apparently doesn't want to write any more Game of Thrones books either! I think the problems with the TV series resulted mainly from this and are as much his fault as the show's writers who were left with no books to adapt the last seasons from.
I'll have to play devil's advocate a bit here. Let's be honest: if the very creator of the series is taking more than a decade to find a conclusion to the narrative, imagine the pressure that would fall on D&D if they had accepted to create an epic conclusion to the series, respecting all narrative arcs, etc. They knew very well what would happen if they tried to create a perfect ending. I'm not trying to justify, but it's more than double the work to have to write a script (aka R R Martin's job) and still direct a television series.
In addition to flying to locations, keeping a large cast and crew happy and keeping their marriages intact.
Thanks it is good to have an idea of how George feels. Not that it is a big surprise. Again thanks for the information👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🌹
"George no longer wanted to write" is a good summary of the last decade
If HBO wanted more seasons, why didn't they hire new writers?
To be honest, I understand them, I would be bored to hell working on the same project for years. But they couldn't replace them because of the risks of bringing new authors.
Well it wouldnt of been like this if he had finished his novel. At the end it falls back on him. Hope he does finish his book soon and a Dream of Spring
5:30 George being cast out from one of the greatest shows of all time, then, at the peak of it's popularity, highlighting a much less popular show that's also one of the greatest of all time, is so poetic
I’ve wondered; if the books weren’t done, why was the show made in the first place? Wouldn’t the smart thing be to WAIT until the author is done before you adapt their work? Just doesn’t make sense.
It makes you wonder how fast he would have written, if not finishing the books first, would have kiboshed the deal.
Some people are saying D&D bought the rights but I could not find that anywhere. From whatever research I did, I could come up with was that D&D chatted with Martin’s literary agent and then they approached HBO.
That said it is clear that HBO wanted more episodes. It is a profitable franchise and at least till Season 5, almost everyone loved The Game of Thrones. It started dipping in Season 6 (some argue even 5 since GRRM stopped writing) and was ordinary in 7, and don’t want to even think 8 existed. GRRM also wanted more episodes.
So to think that it had 73 episodes instead of 100 is crazy.
This makes me so sad. We deserved faithful adaptions of the books.
Thanks for the review.
I watched an interview with Dan and Dave and said If the fans were upset with the writing it was because George wasnt giving them sorce material for the show any longer, so maybe thats why they shut him out of the writers room. They had already signed a deal before the show ended so they were just ready to go! The last two seasons were hard to watch, but I absolutely loved GOT!❤
D&D could have just given the show to other show runners but their egos wouldn't allow it
Martin kinda rubs me the wrong way. Martin ASSURED HBO that he would be done writing by the time they got to that point in the show. Martin went back on his deal, gave them the ending, and now bad mouths the people who made GoT as famous as it is cause it sucked. They didn’t sign on to finish HIS story for him. Show gets bad as soon as they run out of book material
Imagine if HBO hired Ryan condall to do the later seasons of GOT
As much as I hate to say it the ending of the show is the canon ending to the story until George finishes the series himself. With the continued efforts to pump out spin off shows I’m convinced it will never happen which is why I blame George as much if not more than D&D for the predicament we are all in.
That makes zero sense. Show Canon is completely different. The hacks cut kings out of the timeline and changed peoples personalities and names.
My point was George is not going to finish the series so unless someone else writes it then it’s the only ending we are ever going to get. You can call it not canon but I bet everybody who was happy with the shows ending (as hard as that is to believe) will see it as the canon ending and without another ending to point to I can’t really see how they would be wrong in thinking that.
I'm of 2 minds with this because on the one hand, D&D made something so shockingly bad. Like there's a noticeable difference between trying and not sticking the landing and someone very clearly not caring anymore. That said, this man still has released the next book, and there's meant to be another after in like twice the length of the entire TV show so I don't really understand what he expected to happen. Even if they adapted every minor character in the books, they would have run out of material to pull from unless they spun their wheels forever to not pay anything off and if that was the case, do we really think the show would last this long, let alone how long it would take for him to drop both books? I think people let him off the hook for the show too much because frankly, it was never gonna end well since he very clearly doesn't know where to go himself. How can we honestly expect anyone else to make a satisfying ending when he can't even figure out what to write himself in over a decade? Especially when they were only supposed to adapt the source material, they were never meant to make up the ending or make up large parts of the story.
I am not defending D&D but at this point, George had the power to prove he was in the right but he's still here just talking, making excuses, saying it's almost done year after year so it seems kind of ridiculous to expect he wasn't pissing people off with this wishy washy nature behind the scenes of the show when I guarantee you, they all went into the show expecting the books to come out, or at least one of the books to come out, long before they got to the point they did because TV shows are never guaranteed to continue, most shows never get as many seasons as GOT did so it seems wild for George to throw shade about the show not lasting longer when he still hasn't delivered himself. Both sides are as to blame for this as the other IMO.
Act like seasons 6, 7, and 8 did not exist, and re do them, completing at season 10. I want to see the Wheel Break, I want the Night King to be resolved in the 10th season. I want to follow Varys, after Littlefinger. I want to find out that Varys is a Wizard, and his hatred was misdirected, and Varys learns of the Warlock. Lady Stoneheart-season 7&8? How about the Mysterious lady of Quaith.
Maybe season 10 should end with some things resolved, and other things not.
Season 6 was amazing. For a lot of people it was the Best season of GOT
Don't forget season 5. That Dorne plot still haunts me
@@rasalpaul4574 personally I was 'OK' with season 6. Not what I would have done like this, or have wanted, but if that season was setting the low bar of expectations, I could take it, as a viewer.
Seven and eight were unacceptable, aside from the SFX, Actors, and Crew.
@@chamirus1 I liked the idea of the Dorne people and Nation, but yeah, if they had 5 more seasons to work with in season 5, the Dorne, and other people, like the Gold Cloaks, would have been fleshed out and treated with reverence.
I mean, I love Dorne and its people, but in the books. The Dorne plot was só good in aFfC and in aDwD and in the show they butchered it
Yeah, sure he did. Just like how he has been furiously trying to finish The Winds of Winter.