Sold my 790R and bought a MT450 - kitted it out cheaply (high seat, pannier frames better rubber) and it is a nicer bike than the 790 for the type of riding I do. That little twin is a pearl. It gets better the more miles I put on it. FKTM.
Absolutely agree so much. It's not rocket science. The market wants 400-500cc adventure bikes. CFMoto have come to the table. It's time the other got around. Where is our CRF 450 Rally adventure? Baby T7 with low centre of gravity. Such good points raised here.
Sadly Japanese manufacturers don't seem to have a sniff when it comes to dual sport. Where did the back up kick start go? Why did my bike come with a 7.6L tank and a seat I can't sit on for more than 20 minutes? Why did I have to spend a couple thousand adding parts to make it a proper dual sport? I'd like to see Yamaha make a long stroke mildly tuned 550cc single with a heavy flywheel and 20L KTM890 tanks. Sell it with the good 48mm forks and a lowering kit installed factory. Desert racer guys can pull the lowering kit and trail riders can enjoy the quality suspension with an easy dabbing 35" seat height. Kickstarts, seats and fuel capacity should never be trimmed to make the spec sheet look better.
@@mikeisland7382 Yep when Yamaha builds that bike I'll be the first to buy it. (Right beside you I'd reckon 😜) Agree on the kick starter such a good back up plan on an ADV bike! Thanks for watching Regards Steve
As an avid sportsbike rider that transitioned to nakeds at 50 and now don't ride due to speeding fines and overall costs. I still mountain bike, but a Himmy 450 or crf300 rally may sway me to get out on the adventure trails... We are all aging...
@@Willberight2moro Yeah U want it too be easy once U get past 50. Reckon the Himmy would be a great cruising bike with less chance of speeding fines.....😂
I'm 67 and in a very similar situation, working though a one year good driving behaviour agreement in Qld. So, I'm only just hanging on to my licence. In the garage: Ducati Diavel, Tiger 900 ADV, CRF300. I like all of them for different reasons. I would love to have a 500cc dual sport, around 160kgs, 50hp, long service intervals like the CRF, not too tall, some wind protection.
Very good video Steve. Watched a few videos on this topic. You really don't need much more than 450/500. And China is listening. Like the Japanese used to listen. Riding for 50years now, I downsized 2 years ago to an NC750. Thinking now I should have stepped down to the 500cc class. Still enjoying the bike though. Cheers from NZ
The CFMoto 450 and Himalayan 450 are on my radar. I’m a long time KTM/Husqvarna/BMW guy and presently ride a 1200GS and 701. I’m 75 and recently had back surgery and with that some balance issues. I’m desperately needing a lower, lighter bike. Something I can pick up on my own. I love to travel at Hwy speeds but still want some off-road capability. The 450 range is about perfect.
@@BlackdogADV Yeah both bikes are good options but I wish they could make them a bit lighter. Both very close to the mark IMO Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Agree mate. I think the big manufacturers might be having to play catch up soon both on offering and price. They have had all the fundamentals there but seemed to have maintained a divide between light weight and heavier touring oriented options. So easy to tweak existing models to make a lighter Dakar/adventure style bike. All the best with your recovery👍
Pierer Group financial performance speaks more about their bicycles division rather than motorcycles. Having said that, tradicional manufactures have been milking the cow of the premiums of displacement: the cost difference of building a 900cc vs a 1300cc is marginal, the price premium are not though. Instead of listening to the market and come with ~500cc lightweight motorcycles, they have decided to keep milking the cow. Now CF Moto, Kove and RE are kicking first in that segment.
@@josech 100% agree just took there eye of the ball. KTM will be fine there just coming off record years. Their share price has taken a hit and they have made losses but they'll just keep motoring along. They have very loyal followers Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Ride report: just got back from a 3 week adv ride in Portugal and Spain and my two sisters rode the Himalayan 450s and didn't like the experience at all. Problems are design, the foot pegs are in a position that makes it difficult to move the bike around because you feel the need to put feet in front of the pegs but that give little movement ability so there's something off in that design choice. The seat is shaped in a way that doesn't make it easy to maneuver the bike, its closer to a saddle design instead of a dirt bike design so it spreads your legs out wider and coincidentally takes away from reach to the ground. My sisters daily riders are Triumph tiger 900s and they say they have way way more foot reach than the 450s, that's a big problem. The bikes can be over sprung too and mid trip we had to find a dealership to adjust the spring on one bike because the rider was only maybe a buck fifteen and couldn't touch but with tippy toes and had to let all the spring out only to find the improvement was marginal. The good: bike sips gas, in comparison I was riding a Tenere 700 and had to gas up twice for ever one of the 450. They can cruse at 70 to 80 MPH of 80 to 130 KPH no problem. final thoughts, potentially a great great bike but poor design choices are going to have customers disappointed after purchasing them, especially female riders. Both my sisters were overjoyed to get back to their Tigers and said the overall experience with those bikes was disappointing.
Hi Johnny B, great insight there really appreciate the feedback. When someone makes comments like you have done it helps a lot of us. We can now go to the dealership and sit on the bike and have a feel on what the seat, suspension and foot pegs feel like and see if it's a deal breaker for us. You have highlighted some of these points without totally degrading the bike and have included some positives. Great Stuff. Myself I like flat seats so I can easily move around on the bike so I would give that some due consideration when testing Himalayan. Thanks to you and you sisters for the feedback. Regards Steve
On a work visit to Wuxi China I saw how they build mechanical equipment. I have also seen the standard of Indian equipment. I have also owned British, German and numerous Japanese bikes. It is no contest, Japanese all the way for me.
@@gs3-o4f In the past yep 100% agree but now I'm starting to question this. I am seeing Chinese manufactured products of exceptional quality so for the first time in my life I am considering Chinese and Indian products as a viable alternative. You make a solid argument no problem there. Thanks for watching Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadvChinese still have Metallurgy integrity issues they need to overcome. Lot of metals, fasteners and plastics they use are still not quite up to snuff.
@@gs3-o4f Yeah I agree even up close they are a very polished looking unit and a great offering. Love to try one that's for sure! Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
I am surprised you did not consider the Kawasaki Versys 300. I have one and its a great little bike. It's not really a bike for bush bashing but it's ideal for gravel roads and travels the Hume Highway with no problems at all. it has a17 litre petrol tank and it handles very well, and it is not under powered. It does need an update.
Yeah the X300 is a great little package you are right. I agree it is probably more of a light weight tourer rather than a full on adventure bike. In hindsight it was worth a mention as a bit of innovation from Kawasaki having a 300CC twin you are right. Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
I rode a demo one with the original road tyres, and also when it had some knobby tyres for some off road use. Handled fantastic on the road but engine lacked low down torque and revved too high on the highway. Off road the forks bottomed out on minor bumps. Perhaps if they made a versys 500 with their new engine, and some better forks it would be a contender.
For those who live in Australia everyone wants the unicorn…light weight, long range, powerful and reliable. Good for long trips, great for technical. There’s always compromise and Australia is a very unique place, it’s a small market for manufacturers with a huge amount of distance required for a dealer network. If I was an accountant working at a manufacturer I wouldn’t be focusing on the Australian market…
Yeah you're right Scott when you look at the amount of bikes they sell in parts of Asia we are a tiny drop in the ocean. However if one of the manufacturers were to build the unicorn or close to it it would sell itself and could become their bread and butter bike. The DR650 is a classic example, they recovered their tooling/development costs 25 years ago from there there is a lot of profit. The standard dealer network model is an interesting one. I have recently been to have a look at a new car and the new bikes that prompted this video and had to deal with pretty average salesmen. If I was to order a Himalayan today I would do it online on their website. Not for everyone but I am happy to do this. This will be part of the shakeup in the future I reckon. Take out the $1500 dealer delivery and send it to me in a crate I will do the rest. Very good points you make Scott. Thanks for watching regards Steve
Slim pickings in the dual sport/light ADV market IMO. When I have the finances to do so I'd like to think I'd be happy with a Himalayan as my ADV choice, but realistically I'm thinking I'm better off spending the extra and getting the bike I really want - an AJP PR7. I want one of these as I'm still riding enduro and want something that I can take pretty much anywhere if the mood strikes me. I've done a fair bit of research into the CRF450RL but still can't get past the fact that it's still essentially a toned down enduro bike rather than a true dual sport. As far as the Japanese manufacturers go, I think they underestimate how popular a 150ish kg injected 6 speed 600/650 single would be.
Yeah the Honda 450 has so much potential but they just won't spend the money. I agree with your thoughts on a150kg 600 single this capacity has the potential highest selling ADV bike on the market because of its take anywhere ability Thanks for watching Regards Steve
In NZ India (Himalayan 450) and China (Cfmoto 450MT) now have 34% of motorcycle sales so far in 2024. Reminds me of the British motorcycle industry collapse, in 1968 they were near the top, by 1972 they were all but gone. The wave of Japanese 500's and 750's had wiped the British out through a combination of price, performance and better reliability. Unions and arrogant management also contributed to their demise. KTM had better be watching, its cheese camshaft response may end up burying them...
Hi Kevin, great comparison with the demise of the British motorcycle industry, that is a really good example of where some of the manufacturers are sitting at the moment. Interesting numbers in NZ that simply amazing and backs up my thoughts. Thanks for that appreciate your insights :) Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
European and Japanese manufactures more interested in the crowded space of producing high spec luxury bikes with all the bells and whistles out pricing themselves of their own market and they stopped listening to their own customer base
They make more money per unit shifted, with almost identical labour and logistics costs.. Car manufacturers have done the same, the cheap and cheerful cars, or cheap and cheerful spec cars are gone.. They've run the numbers, they might lose sales, but they make more per unit, interest, servicing, parts and ultimately the high spec kills the bike prematurely when it's more costly to repair a fancy tft screen, module, etc is unavailable..
I have a 2023 KTM 890 Adventure R and they do have serious problems with quality control. Brand new bike, tires flat, so I take it to dealership and they fuck around and a few weeks later, tires flat again, take to dealership and they fuck around then a month or so later tires flat. Something is wrong with the rims that make it really hard for them to hold air. They hold air now but I think the dealership got sick of me and pumped a bunch of slime in them. First month of riding and coolant leak, upper radiator hose connection. I do not take it to the dealership but instead buy my own silicon hose set and clamps and take the whole fucking bike apart and replace the hoses myself, hasn't leaked since. First time washing the bike, and turn signals shorted and stuck on. I fuck around and find the internal wiring on the instrument cluster has nicked wires and pinched wires so I order a new one. New one comes and I check the inside to make sure its ok but I must take apart the whole faring and get the very back of the enclosure to a bracket and undo the plug from bracket and put the new one in, very difficult job. Put the bike back together only to find another wire pinched and shorted on the engine kill switch, WTF, I just splice it this time as I wasn't in the mood to go through what I just went through. Now I worry about the cam wiping problem, its not the cam but an oiling problem. The oil passage to the head has a screen that can get blocked causing lack of oil to the head and thus cam. my plan is to buy a wrecked bike and take the engine out and have it built with hot cams and solve the oil passage issue and when the cam gets wiped in my original engine just swap them. How successful I am with this plan remains to be seen. Otherwise the bike is a beast!
Yeah the bike concept is brilliant and the day I go to a twin they will be top of my list. (Probably put a Rade tower on cause I don't like the praying mantis look) Nice size engine, about as big as I would go, fuel down low, plenty of seat options, 18-21 wheels.... bloody shame they are having these quality issues. Mate has got a 701 and he found an oiling issue on his as well but he got to it on time before it damaged anything. You've had a shitty run, hopefully you'll get a few good years out of it now. Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadv Yes, Im considering the rally tower as the stock fairing design is actually quite fragile. I have gone through 3 windscreens since 2023. Something tells me after riding the Tenere 700 that had more of a rally design that it also blocks the wind better.
Both are great looking bikes and based on sales and reviews they go and sound pretty good....but the weight at about 200kg wet, that's a deal breaker for me. My age and back issues makes it difficult enough picking up 150kg in some situations..200kg no chance. Pity as I really like the look and sound of the CF Moto.
@@sausagesandwichSA Yeah very close to a deal breaker me as well. Hoping the Himalayan has a lower centre of gravity so bit easier to pick up but yeah your right Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Very good points and I want to add, how difficult is it to include a good bash plate and strong hand guards to an adventure bike. These with a tail rack and a minimum of 4 gallon fuel tank. The manufactures don't seem to listen to the buyers. Go to an adventure rally and listen to the riders and look at what they have done to their bikes. Good pedals too!
@@glennmcguire5571 Spot on it blows me away how simple it is and yet they don't do it. AJP have done it with the PR7 but that's the only manufacturer who has made the effort Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Yep so very hard to get past that price for a new bike. When you stand beside them and really can't fault them, quite frankly love the look of them and their functionality it's hard not to buy them :) Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadv PS: put my deposit down Dec 26th, so I didn't get to inspect till I picked it up till May 16th. Have not been disappointed yet, but will soon do a two+ ride heading south from Brissie.
As a Ktm 790 Adv owner , I’m seriously considering buying the new Himalayan 450 as my Touring machine, I really love what RE India had been doing, great strides in the last 10 years Cheers !
Yeah the the 790 is a great bike but the fact you are still looking at the Himalayan as a viable alternative speaks volumes of Royal Enfield. The thing is here when a company like RE start listening to the market and producing some innovative products we want to jump onboard. Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadv exactly, I recently watched a documentary on RE and what the newish CEO had done. Firstly, he rode a RE bike on a huge tour of India, then made all his mangers use there bikes to commute on, they quickly released the reliability needed to change, and they went to work Love it !! A far cry from Ktm”s current debacle
Yeah hi Paul agreed. Watch this space as to whether they prove reliable in the long term. Also just how they wear and if stuff breaks is another question. At this stage you would have to say they look like a great option but..... Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Good assesment of the current picture! Nice how politics stays below the surface in the motorycle world discussions, but most of us know what's going on in the world these days in terms of humanity is attrocious--and the motorcyle industry is of course not immune. I think it's important not to ignore how some of today's bikes are built so much more cheaply than others. And, why some on the higher end have real quality control issues. One of the reasons society is slipping is we are getting lazy, and want more for less. If someone wants more for less money, but arent lazy, they can buy a used bike and make it their own--they last a long time. AJP, if nothing else it would be fun to have, like you said, a mostly hand made bike from Portugal--I hope they are able to grow a little and improve on a really cool bike. If you mention the 701 I missed it, but that seems it would be a top contender, at least it has the makings to be customized into a really good long distance bike--seems pretty popular. But yes I'm with you--being a fat, old balding fella I've managed to get my 901 Expedition down to 447 lbs (203k), but I hate picking it up, and I would be less nervous in the woods on something lighter. I guess If we could all just be Adam Riemann we'd have no worries--provided it's equipped with a "Akro"🤣. I'm guessing an ultralight "twin" is feasible, and would sell like hotcakes, but it would be a seriously expensive endeavor for someone to actually get it to market. Not many people with those kind of balls these days. Cheers!
@@Jackass-sc8iz Some very deep thoughts there and good points. As a general rule I group the 690, 701 and ES700 all as the same bike which are the best ADV bikes in the market along with the PR7. Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Japaneese and Europeans manufactures are not listening for what people want.. Even if they do sometimes, they came out with very expensive bikes.. The whole 'west' world have coast of living crisis and less and less people can afford what they offer.. Like the CRF 300 Rally.. 7250€ and still you need to add stuff to it.
@@Stefan_trekkie Yeah agreed 100% that's why I think the cheaper end of the market will get a lot of market share in my opinion. Watch this space! Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Love AJP, but one thing I am a little bit sceptical of is they get the engine from swm which is a great package but unfortunately swm have not done a bloody thing since the husqvarna days some of the same niggling issues the te510 had my swm rs500 has and also has close ratio transmission which is not ideal for dual sport though I must say on AJP's behalf they build a quality product! One bike I would love getting made again set up as a rally/adventure bike would have to be the husqvarna te610 & the Husaberg FE570 they had proven to be reliable had there teething issues that could have been easily addressed such as countershaft ware on fe570 but nothing that a little R&D couldn't fix! Yes Chinese manufacturers have gone to new depths!
@@danielryle5596 Good points. I nearly bought a Husaberg 570 thought of all the bikes over the last 20 years that sounded the closest to the ultimate LW ADV bike Thanks for watching Regards Steve
I've always wondered why suzuki didn't update the dr650 like kawasaki did with the klr.. efi, abs, long range tank, drz dash, it seems like a no brainer.. same with honda and a 450 rally that doesn't need its oil changed every 1000kms.. why they aren't making bikes that people actually want is beyond me.. for last 2 years I've been tryn to decide on a new dualsport adv type bike but nobody makes the unicorn im looking for. re 450 and mt450 are the closest I've seen.
Yeah the funny part is these conversations are the same all over the world so if one manufacturer did listen they would have world wide sales and could dominate and I think that is what China and India are doing. They are listening. Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
WR350R is my sweet spot. I have a 250, but want more torque. Other brands 300s seem under powered. The 450 too much snap and rush of whiskey throttle. 500s tend to be tamer with more usable torque.
I agree a 350 R would be a great option . When it comes to enduro bikes that mid size 350 is the best capacity imo. Going to a do as vid on the 350 enduro one day👍 Thanks for watching Regards Steve
They make a 290 big bore kit for the 250R, but it is still a little underwhelming. The guys in the US are fitting 350 big bore kits to their KLX250/300 with good results.
I'm in the market for crf300 vs beta alp 4.0 vs fantic caballero rally, but hi, I'm still not convinced about the Chinese... The drz with act gearbox maiby, but still it well come very expensive to slipp the case...but... Spr is an enduro bikes as long as I know. Isn't it? Superdual maiby? Ajp expensive... Himalayan, havey. Cf moto and kove Chinese with ktm engines, and the kove in particular with 790 problematic engine... From the ktm only the v twin and enduro engines (husaberg design?) have been reliable enough. Enduro engines doesn't have the longevity in them. Where are the old 2 strokes. Today's 2 strokes are build for 10k km? Is it enough?... So lightweight dualsports are still the crf300, dr650, drz400... Yamaha wr350, with half t7 engine, will be a good bike...
350/450 single or twin cylinder bikes are the best offer. We know this from long time ago. But brands wiped out this size of bike in favor of +650 cc bikes or underpowered 125/300 engines. They wanted us to go for the big ones so their profits rise. Chinese and Indian brands are now releasing fantastic 350/450 cc machines and Japanese and brands like BMW should react. BMW is the epitome of this nonsense not selling its carismatic boxer engine below 1200 cc.
Japanese bikes have never been rubbish, that was just european/ british jealousy back in the 60s and 70s as most Euro/British bikes were getting thrashed in the racing by Japanese bikes. Still plenty Japanese bikes running from those days, not sure youll be able to say the same thing in 60 years about current chinese models or euro brands.
I think bringing other brands into Australia might slow down price rises, the new AJP enduros look like a great bit of kit but there motors might be a quite a few years old now , yes they added efi but they don't have the dollars for the R&D . But the AJP like you have are bullet proof and that's a major thing . I think the new kove is going to be brilliant when it get to Aus. But because I am a KTM whore for the last 24 years and bleed orange 🍊 I will stick with them , good video steve get better soon mate its spring.
@@bigals.ktms.9937 Yeah your right the Chinese and Indian offerings do keep the price pressures on other manufacturers. Watch this space as to the long term reliability of these bike is the key. The best part for U is there is no issues at all with KTM enduro models just some of the ADV bikes Recovering slowly but surely thanks bud 👍
The SWM engine was built by Loncin for BMW in China, it doesn't get Euro 5 so has been dropped by SWM. The only users are now AJP and CCM but how long it will continue to be produced is anyones guess.
@@dirtbikeadv Designed by BMW and built for them in China, I wasn't aware SWM ever took over the production. Though it would explain someof the later quality problems!
I think the manufacturers are hamstrung by Government regulations, and are also squeezed financially. Australia forces manufacturers to fit ABS to all new registered models, which adds weight and cost. I don't want ABS on a 250cc trail bike, and I don't like paying an extra $1000 for stuff I don't need. Sure, have it as an optional extra for people who do want it, but to be mandatory?? Suzuki reluctance to update the DRZ400 or DR650, is understandable, because even if they could get them to comply with new emissions standards, it could make them heavier, more expensive, and potentially price them out of their little niche market share. Kawasaki have the registered fuel injected KLX300 in the US, but not here in Australia. We still have the old Carbureted KLX250. Perhaps there are not enough sales of the Honda CRF300 to justify the expense of Kawasaki making the KLX300 comply with ADR's. Your 200kg weight limit is still too high for me. @60kg my upper weight limit for an adventure bike is more like 140kg, which rules out all the twin cylinder models. I rode the MT450 and was very impressed. But for me, most twins are good for highway & dirt roads only, as they are too much of a handfull in single trails.
@@glennmerriman8382 Thanks Glenn very good thoughts. Australia is a very small market which is also a big part of the problem. But yes ADR is a killer as well. I think if a manufacturer put the effort in to build a sub 150kg single ADV bike with long range tank, comfy seat, and a tower it would be a world wide best seller. That's where I'm coming from but I agree with everything you say. Thanks for watching Regards Steve
GREAT INSITE,still come back to yamaha tt,xt 500 great looking 145,kg skinny tank ,now Himalayan 50 kg heaver tank up top ,I think yamaha and honda are ugly with transformer looks
In 60s Japanese bike were better than the others. Now chinese or indian are poor, cheaper copies. Price is THE ONLY reason people but them (and create ideology ). I saw last chinese bikes, I rode RE - none of them is european or japanese quality level. "KTM, BMW are made in Chine". Oh My God; how many times this "argument". These motorcycles were designed by europeans - chinese is only workforce. IPhone is also chinese product? Till now chinese are not even able to designe engine - only small cc engines are really chinese. No, this is not like 60s period - chinese and indian bikes are NOT same.
Motorcycle industry is following the car industry. Just look at the Japnanes offerings compared to what the Chinese are producing and it's only a matter of time before the Japanese will have to start dropping their prices to keep the sales volume up. All if this is great for consumers as the choices widen.
@@podunkman2709 l disagree Korean cars are not on the same level as Japanese cars for durability and reliability worked in Hyundai and Toyota dealership workshops for the last eight years. Toyota are lightyears ahead for quality control.
Sold my 790R and bought a MT450 - kitted it out cheaply (high seat, pannier frames better rubber) and it is a nicer bike than the 790 for the type of riding I do. That little twin is a pearl. It gets better the more miles I put on it. FKTM.
@@daveramsay8887 Wow there you go great first hand experience. Thanks for that feedback very interesting
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Absolutely agree so much. It's not rocket science. The market wants 400-500cc adventure bikes. CFMoto have come to the table. It's time the other got around. Where is our CRF 450 Rally adventure? Baby T7 with low centre of gravity. Such good points raised here.
@@cobusnieuwenhuizen5859 Thanks bud we can only hope that one of the manufacturers are listening 🤞
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
No Chinese bikes ever
@@RobertMountfort Understandable.... 😂
I don't.
Sadly Japanese manufacturers don't seem to have a sniff when it comes to dual sport. Where did the back up kick start go? Why did my bike come with a 7.6L tank and a seat I can't sit on for more than 20 minutes? Why did I have to spend a couple thousand adding parts to make it a proper dual sport?
I'd like to see Yamaha make a long stroke mildly tuned 550cc single with a heavy flywheel and 20L KTM890 tanks. Sell it with the good 48mm forks and a lowering kit installed factory. Desert racer guys can pull the lowering kit and trail riders can enjoy the quality suspension with an easy dabbing 35" seat height.
Kickstarts, seats and fuel capacity should never be trimmed to make the spec sheet look better.
@@mikeisland7382 Yep when Yamaha builds that bike I'll be the first to buy it. (Right beside you I'd reckon 😜) Agree on the kick starter such a good back up plan on an ADV bike!
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
As an avid sportsbike rider that transitioned to nakeds at 50 and now don't ride due to speeding fines and overall costs.
I still mountain bike, but a Himmy 450 or crf300 rally may sway me to get out on the adventure trails...
We are all aging...
@@Willberight2moro Yeah U want it too be easy once U get past 50. Reckon the Himmy would be a great cruising bike with less chance of speeding fines.....😂
I'm 67 and in a very similar situation, working though a one year good driving behaviour agreement in Qld. So, I'm only just hanging on to my licence. In the garage: Ducati Diavel, Tiger 900 ADV, CRF300. I like all of them for different reasons. I would love to have a 500cc dual sport, around 160kgs, 50hp, long service intervals like the CRF, not too tall, some wind protection.
Not the first time I hear this type of rant but well said. Big brands are comfortable just releasing the old school I'm glad they have competition now
@@jbraMoVal Yeah but of a shame they don't put more effort in but they'll soon get overtaken..... 🤔
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Very good video Steve. Watched a few videos on this topic. You really don't need much more than 450/500. And China is listening. Like the Japanese used to listen. Riding for 50years now, I downsized 2 years ago to an NC750. Thinking now I should have stepped down to the 500cc class. Still enjoying the bike though.
Cheers from NZ
The CFMoto 450 and Himalayan 450 are on my radar. I’m a long time KTM/Husqvarna/BMW guy and presently ride a 1200GS and 701. I’m 75 and recently had back surgery and with that some balance issues. I’m desperately needing a lower, lighter bike. Something I can pick up on my own. I love to travel at Hwy speeds but still want some off-road capability. The 450 range is about perfect.
@@BlackdogADV Yeah both bikes are good options but I wish they could make them a bit lighter. Both very close to the mark IMO
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Agree mate. I think the big manufacturers might be having to play catch up soon both on offering and price. They have had all the fundamentals there but seemed to have maintained a divide between light weight and heavier touring oriented options. So easy to tweak existing models to make a lighter Dakar/adventure style bike. All the best with your recovery👍
Pierer Group financial performance speaks more about their bicycles division rather than motorcycles. Having said that, tradicional manufactures have been milking the cow of the premiums of displacement: the cost difference of building a 900cc vs a 1300cc is marginal, the price premium are not though. Instead of listening to the market and come with ~500cc lightweight motorcycles, they have decided to keep milking the cow. Now CF Moto, Kove and RE are kicking first in that segment.
@@josech 100% agree just took there eye of the ball. KTM will be fine there just coming off record years. Their share price has taken a hit and they have made losses but they'll just keep motoring along. They have very loyal followers
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Ride report: just got back from a 3 week adv ride in Portugal and Spain and my two sisters rode the Himalayan 450s and didn't like the experience at all. Problems are design, the foot pegs are in a position that makes it difficult to move the bike around because you feel the need to put feet in front of the pegs but that give little movement ability so there's something off in that design choice. The seat is shaped in a way that doesn't make it easy to maneuver the bike, its closer to a saddle design instead of a dirt bike design so it spreads your legs out wider and coincidentally takes away from reach to the ground. My sisters daily riders are Triumph tiger 900s and they say they have way way more foot reach than the 450s, that's a big problem. The bikes can be over sprung too and mid trip we had to find a dealership to adjust the spring on one bike because the rider was only maybe a buck fifteen and couldn't touch but with tippy toes and had to let all the spring out only to find the improvement was marginal. The good: bike sips gas, in comparison I was riding a Tenere 700 and had to gas up twice for ever one of the 450. They can cruse at 70 to 80 MPH of 80 to 130 KPH no problem. final thoughts, potentially a great great bike but poor design choices are going to have customers disappointed after purchasing them, especially female riders. Both my sisters were overjoyed to get back to their Tigers and said the overall experience with those bikes was disappointing.
Hi Johnny B, great insight there really appreciate the feedback. When someone makes comments like you have done it helps a lot of us. We can now go to the dealership and sit on the bike and have a feel on what the seat, suspension and foot pegs feel like and see if it's a deal breaker for us. You have highlighted some of these points without totally degrading the bike and have included some positives. Great Stuff. Myself I like flat seats so I can easily move around on the bike so I would give that some due consideration when testing Himalayan.
Thanks to you and you sisters for the feedback.
Regards Steve
On a work visit to Wuxi China I saw how they build mechanical equipment. I have also seen the standard of Indian equipment. I have also owned British, German and numerous Japanese bikes. It is no contest, Japanese all the way for me.
@@gs3-o4f In the past yep 100% agree but now I'm starting to question this. I am seeing Chinese manufactured products of exceptional quality so for the first time in my life I am considering Chinese and Indian products as a viable alternative. You make a solid argument no problem there.
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadvChinese still have Metallurgy integrity issues they need to overcome. Lot of metals, fasteners and plastics they use are still not quite up to snuff.
@@dirtbikeadv No doubt they will improve the quality. I do like the classic look of the RE's though.
@@gs3-o4f Yeah I agree even up close they are a very polished looking unit and a great offering. Love to try one that's for sure!
Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
I am surprised you did not consider the Kawasaki Versys 300. I have one and its a great little bike. It's not really a bike for bush bashing but it's ideal for gravel roads and travels the Hume Highway with no problems at all. it has a17 litre petrol tank and it handles very well, and it is not under powered. It does need an update.
Yeah the X300 is a great little package you are right. I agree it is probably more of a light weight tourer rather than a full on adventure bike. In hindsight it was worth a mention as a bit of innovation from Kawasaki having a 300CC twin you are right.
Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
I rode a demo one with the original road tyres, and also when it had some knobby tyres for some off road use. Handled fantastic on the road but engine lacked low down torque and revved too high on the highway. Off road the forks bottomed out on minor bumps. Perhaps if they made a versys 500 with their new engine, and some better forks it would be a contender.
For those who live in Australia everyone wants the unicorn…light weight, long range, powerful and reliable. Good for long trips, great for technical. There’s always compromise and Australia is a very unique place, it’s a small market for manufacturers with a huge amount of distance required for a dealer network. If I was an accountant working at a manufacturer I wouldn’t be focusing on the Australian market…
Yeah you're right Scott when you look at the amount of bikes they sell in parts of Asia we are a tiny drop in the ocean. However if one of the manufacturers were to build the unicorn or close to it it would sell itself and could become their bread and butter bike. The DR650 is a classic example, they recovered their tooling/development costs 25 years ago from there there is a lot of profit. The standard dealer network model is an interesting one. I have recently been to have a look at a new car and the new bikes that prompted this video and had to deal with pretty average salesmen. If I was to order a Himalayan today I would do it online on their website. Not for everyone but I am happy to do this. This will be part of the shakeup in the future I reckon. Take out the $1500 dealer delivery and send it to me in a crate I will do the rest.
Very good points you make Scott.
Thanks for watching regards Steve
Slim pickings in the dual sport/light ADV market IMO. When I have the finances to do so I'd like to think I'd be happy with a Himalayan as my ADV choice, but realistically I'm thinking I'm better off spending the extra and getting the bike I really want - an AJP PR7. I want one of these as I'm still riding enduro and want something that I can take pretty much anywhere if the mood strikes me. I've done a fair bit of research into the CRF450RL but still can't get past the fact that it's still essentially a toned down enduro bike rather than a true dual sport. As far as the Japanese manufacturers go, I think they underestimate how popular a 150ish kg injected 6 speed 600/650 single would be.
Yeah the Honda 450 has so much potential but they just won't spend the money. I agree with your thoughts on a150kg 600 single this capacity has the potential highest selling ADV bike on the market because of its take anywhere ability
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
In NZ India (Himalayan 450) and China (Cfmoto 450MT) now have 34% of motorcycle sales so far in 2024. Reminds me of the British motorcycle industry collapse, in 1968 they were near the top, by 1972 they were all but gone. The wave of Japanese 500's and 750's had wiped the British out through a combination of price, performance and better reliability. Unions and arrogant management also contributed to their demise. KTM had better be watching, its cheese camshaft response may end up burying them...
Hi Kevin, great comparison with the demise of the British motorcycle industry, that is a really good example of where some of the manufacturers are sitting at the moment. Interesting numbers in NZ that simply amazing and backs up my thoughts. Thanks for that appreciate your insights :)
Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
European and Japanese manufactures more interested in the crowded space of producing high spec luxury bikes with all the bells and whistles out pricing themselves of their own market and they stopped listening to their own customer base
@@oldshiny3012 Yeah good call your spot on!
They make more money per unit shifted, with almost identical labour and logistics costs..
Car manufacturers have done the same, the cheap and cheerful cars, or cheap and cheerful spec cars are gone..
They've run the numbers, they might lose sales, but they make more per unit, interest, servicing, parts and ultimately the high spec kills the bike prematurely when it's more costly to repair a fancy tft screen, module, etc is unavailable..
Yeah all valid points......
I have a 2023 KTM 890 Adventure R and they do have serious problems with quality control. Brand new bike, tires flat, so I take it to dealership and they fuck around and a few weeks later, tires flat again, take to dealership and they fuck around then a month or so later tires flat. Something is wrong with the rims that make it really hard for them to hold air. They hold air now but I think the dealership got sick of me and pumped a bunch of slime in them. First month of riding and coolant leak, upper radiator hose connection. I do not take it to the dealership but instead buy my own silicon hose set and clamps and take the whole fucking bike apart and replace the hoses myself, hasn't leaked since. First time washing the bike, and turn signals shorted and stuck on. I fuck around and find the internal wiring on the instrument cluster has nicked wires and pinched wires so I order a new one. New one comes and I check the inside to make sure its ok but I must take apart the whole faring and get the very back of the enclosure to a bracket and undo the plug from bracket and put the new one in, very difficult job. Put the bike back together only to find another wire pinched and shorted on the engine kill switch, WTF, I just splice it this time as I wasn't in the mood to go through what I just went through. Now I worry about the cam wiping problem, its not the cam but an oiling problem. The oil passage to the head has a screen that can get blocked causing lack of oil to the head and thus cam. my plan is to buy a wrecked bike and take the engine out and have it built with hot cams and solve the oil passage issue and when the cam gets wiped in my original engine just swap them. How successful I am with this plan remains to be seen. Otherwise the bike is a beast!
Yeah the bike concept is brilliant and the day I go to a twin they will be top of my list. (Probably put a Rade tower on cause I don't like the praying mantis look) Nice size engine, about as big as I would go, fuel down low, plenty of seat options, 18-21 wheels.... bloody shame they are having these quality issues. Mate has got a 701 and he found an oiling issue on his as well but he got to it on time before it damaged anything. You've had a shitty run, hopefully you'll get a few good years out of it now.
Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadv Yes, Im considering the rally tower as the stock fairing design is actually quite fragile. I have gone through 3 windscreens since 2023. Something tells me after riding the Tenere 700 that had more of a rally design that it also blocks the wind better.
Both are great looking bikes and based on sales and reviews they go and sound pretty good....but the weight at about 200kg wet, that's a deal breaker for me. My age and back issues makes it difficult enough picking up 150kg in some situations..200kg no chance. Pity as I really like the look and sound of the CF Moto.
@@sausagesandwichSA Yeah very close to a deal breaker me as well. Hoping the Himalayan has a lower centre of gravity so bit easier to pick up but yeah your right
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Very good points and I want to add, how difficult is it to include a good bash plate and strong hand guards to an adventure bike. These with a tail rack and a minimum of 4 gallon fuel tank. The manufactures don't seem to listen to the buyers. Go to an adventure rally and listen to the riders and look at what they have done to their bikes. Good pedals too!
@@glennmcguire5571 Spot on it blows me away how simple it is and yet they don't do it. AJP have done it with the PR7 but that's the only manufacturer who has made the effort
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Love the Acerbis jacket! Do you happen to know the model? What size are you wearing?
@@trailrunnermike I'll have a look and get back to u
@@trailrunnermike XL
@@trailrunnermike Hi mate the jacket model is a X-Duro WP textile jacket. The size is XL
@@dirtbikeadvWaterproof, Excellent! Many thanks. It looks like it fits well. I'm going to order one today. True to size?
@@mikeconforti6820 Yeah I think so I'm 6 Foot about 95kgs reasonably wide in the shoulders and it's a loose fit to accommodate a hoodie underneath
Good chat, RE 452 owner myself. Couldnt get past the price & known ride (Itchy Boots).
Yep so very hard to get past that price for a new bike. When you stand beside them and really can't fault them, quite frankly love the look of them and their functionality it's hard not to buy them :)
Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadv PS: put my deposit down Dec 26th, so I didn't get to inspect till I picked it up till May 16th. Have not been disappointed yet, but will soon do a two+ ride heading south from Brissie.
As a Ktm 790 Adv owner , I’m seriously considering buying the new Himalayan 450 as my Touring machine, I really love what RE India had been doing, great strides in the last 10 years
Cheers !
Yeah the the 790 is a great bike but the fact you are still looking at the Himalayan as a viable alternative speaks volumes of Royal Enfield. The thing is here when a company like RE start listening to the market and producing some innovative products we want to jump onboard.
Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
@@dirtbikeadv exactly, I recently watched a documentary on RE and what the newish CEO had done. Firstly, he rode a RE bike on a huge tour of India, then made all his mangers use there bikes to commute on, they quickly released the reliability needed to change, and they went to work
Love it !! A far cry from Ktm”s current debacle
Yeah really interesting.......
It's seems that the CFMOTO 450 MT is getting great reviews so far. Hopefully it will proof to be reliable long term
Yeah hi Paul agreed. Watch this space as to whether they prove reliable in the long term. Also just how they wear and if stuff breaks is another question. At this stage you would have to say they look like a great option but.....
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
If u have some technical sence u'll spot in seconds that this motorcycle is not hapanese level.
@@podunkman2709 What did I miss? 🤔
@@podunkman2709shit talk
Good assesment of the current picture! Nice how politics stays below the surface in the motorycle world discussions, but most of us know what's going on in the world these days in terms of humanity is attrocious--and the motorcyle industry is of course not immune. I think it's important not to ignore how some of today's bikes are built so much more cheaply than others. And, why some on the higher end have real quality control issues. One of the reasons society is slipping is we are getting lazy, and want more for less. If someone wants more for less money, but arent lazy, they can buy a used bike and make it their own--they last a long time. AJP, if nothing else it would be fun to have, like you said, a mostly hand made bike from Portugal--I hope they are able to grow a little and improve on a really cool bike. If you mention the 701 I missed it, but that seems it would be a top contender, at least it has the makings to be customized into a really good long distance bike--seems pretty popular. But yes I'm with you--being a fat, old balding fella I've managed to get my 901 Expedition down to 447 lbs (203k), but I hate picking it up, and I would be less nervous in the woods on something lighter. I guess If we could all just be Adam Riemann we'd have no worries--provided it's equipped with a "Akro"🤣. I'm guessing an ultralight "twin" is feasible, and would sell like hotcakes, but it would be a seriously expensive endeavor for someone to actually get it to market. Not many people with those kind of balls these days. Cheers!
@@Jackass-sc8iz Some very deep thoughts there and good points. As a general rule I group the 690, 701 and ES700 all as the same bike which are the best ADV bikes in the market along with the PR7.
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Japaneese and Europeans manufactures are not listening for what people want.. Even if they do sometimes, they came out with very expensive bikes.. The whole 'west' world have coast of living crisis and less and less people can afford what they offer.. Like the CRF 300 Rally.. 7250€ and still you need to add stuff to it.
@@Stefan_trekkie Yeah agreed 100% that's why I think the cheaper end of the market will get a lot of market share in my opinion. Watch this space!
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Love AJP, but one thing I am a little bit sceptical of is they get the engine from swm which is a great package but unfortunately swm have not done a bloody thing since the husqvarna days some of the same niggling issues the te510 had my swm rs500 has and also has close ratio transmission which is not ideal for dual sport though I must say on AJP's behalf they build a quality product!
One bike I would love getting made again set up as a rally/adventure bike would have to be the husqvarna te610 & the Husaberg FE570 they had proven to be reliable had there teething issues that could have been easily addressed such as countershaft ware on fe570 but nothing that a little R&D couldn't fix!
Yes Chinese manufacturers have gone to new depths!
@@danielryle5596 Good points. I nearly bought a Husaberg 570 thought of all the bikes over the last 20 years that sounded the closest to the ultimate LW ADV bike
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
Howabout a new XR 650 R electric 6 speedbox
I've always wondered why suzuki didn't update the dr650 like kawasaki did with the klr.. efi, abs, long range tank, drz dash, it seems like a no brainer.. same with honda and a 450 rally that doesn't need its oil changed every 1000kms.. why they aren't making bikes that people actually want is beyond me.. for last 2 years I've been tryn to decide on a new dualsport adv type bike but nobody makes the unicorn im looking for. re 450 and mt450 are the closest I've seen.
Yeah the funny part is these conversations are the same all over the world so if one manufacturer did listen they would have world wide sales and could dominate and I think that is what China and India are doing. They are listening. Thanks for watching, Regards Steve
WR350R is my sweet spot.
I have a 250, but want more torque.
Other brands 300s seem under powered.
The 450 too much snap and rush of whiskey throttle.
500s tend to be tamer with more usable torque.
I agree a 350 R would be a great option . When it comes to enduro bikes that mid size 350 is the best capacity imo. Going to a do as vid on the 350 enduro one day👍
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
They make a 290 big bore kit for the 250R, but it is still a little underwhelming. The guys in the US are fitting 350 big bore kits to their KLX250/300 with good results.
@@glennmerriman8382 Yeah I'd be interested in a 350R style bike. Nice if the manufacturers would think this
I'm in the market for crf300 vs beta alp 4.0 vs fantic caballero rally, but hi, I'm still not convinced about the Chinese...
The drz with act gearbox maiby, but still it well come very expensive to slipp the case...but...
Spr is an enduro bikes as long as I know. Isn't it?
Superdual maiby?
Ajp expensive...
Himalayan, havey.
Cf moto and kove Chinese with ktm engines, and the kove in particular with 790 problematic engine...
From the ktm only the v twin and enduro engines (husaberg design?) have been reliable enough.
Enduro engines doesn't have the longevity in them.
Where are the old 2 strokes.
Today's 2 strokes are build for 10k km? Is it enough?...
So lightweight dualsports are still the crf300, dr650, drz400...
Yamaha wr350, with half t7 engine, will be a good bike...
@@rethinking-h8k Yeah all good points......
350/450 single or twin cylinder bikes are the best offer. We know this from long time ago. But brands wiped out this size of bike in favor of +650 cc bikes or underpowered 125/300 engines. They wanted us to go for the big ones so their profits rise. Chinese and Indian brands are now releasing fantastic 350/450 cc machines and Japanese and brands like BMW should react. BMW is the epitome of this nonsense not selling its carismatic boxer engine below 1200 cc.
@@josevi5835 Yep we all seem to agree on this. Well said 👍
@@josevi5835 I'd love to see BMW do a small single that was dirt orientated 🤔
Japanese bikes have never been rubbish, that was just european/ british jealousy back in the 60s and 70s as most Euro/British bikes were getting thrashed in the racing by Japanese bikes. Still plenty Japanese bikes running from those days, not sure youll be able to say the same thing in 60 years about current chinese models or euro brands.
He didn't even mention the current Transalp if you want no reliability dramas you still have to consider Japanese made bikes every time
@mackeymichael yep, I'll be sticking with my tenere 700 for years of trouble free, middle weight adv fun. Not much it can't do.
@@ridelifenz I've heard the CP2 engine is good I'm considering a new R7 with the same engine not interested in reliability issues at this time
I think bringing other brands into Australia might slow down price rises, the new AJP enduros look like a great bit of kit but there motors might be a quite a few years old now , yes they added efi but they don't have the dollars for the R&D .
But the AJP like you have are bullet proof and that's a major thing .
I think the new kove is going to be brilliant when it get to Aus.
But because I am a KTM whore for the last 24 years and bleed orange 🍊 I will stick with them , good video steve get better soon mate its spring.
@@bigals.ktms.9937 Yeah your right the Chinese and Indian offerings do keep the price pressures on other manufacturers. Watch this space as to the long term reliability of these bike is the key. The best part for U is there is no issues at all with KTM enduro models just some of the ADV bikes
Recovering slowly but surely thanks bud 👍
@@dirtbikeadv thr only issue exc really have is stupid fuel pump went to start my rally 450 the other day pump dead lol lucky I have 2 spares .
The SWM engine was built by Loncin for BMW in China, it doesn't get Euro 5 so has been dropped by SWM. The only users are now AJP and CCM but how long it will continue to be produced is anyones guess.
@@jimtitt3571 Really the red husky engine is made in China? You serious..... Bugger I thought they were still made in Italy?
@@dirtbikeadv Designed by BMW and built for them in China, I wasn't aware SWM ever took over the production. Though it would explain someof the later quality problems!
Longevity, is wear the will fail !
@@mixalis6168 Possibly but let's watch this space....
I think the manufacturers are hamstrung by Government regulations, and are also squeezed financially. Australia forces manufacturers to fit ABS to all new registered models, which adds weight and cost. I don't want ABS on a 250cc trail bike, and I don't like paying an extra $1000 for stuff I don't need. Sure, have it as an optional extra for people who do want it, but to be mandatory?? Suzuki reluctance to update the DRZ400 or DR650, is understandable, because even if they could get them to comply with new emissions standards, it could make them heavier, more expensive, and potentially price them out of their little niche market share. Kawasaki have the registered fuel injected KLX300 in the US, but not here in Australia. We still have the old Carbureted KLX250. Perhaps there are not enough sales of the Honda CRF300 to justify the expense of Kawasaki making the KLX300 comply with ADR's.
Your 200kg weight limit is still too high for me. @60kg my upper weight limit for an adventure bike is more like 140kg, which rules out all the twin cylinder models. I rode the MT450 and was very impressed. But for me, most twins are good for highway & dirt roads only, as they are too much of a handfull in single trails.
@@glennmerriman8382 Thanks Glenn very good thoughts. Australia is a very small market which is also a big part of the problem. But yes ADR is a killer as well. I think if a manufacturer put the effort in to build a sub 150kg single ADV bike with long range tank, comfy seat, and a tower it would be a world wide best seller. That's where I'm coming from but I agree with everything you say.
Thanks for watching Regards Steve
GREAT INSITE,still come back to yamaha tt,xt 500 great looking 145,kg skinny tank ,now Himalayan 50 kg heaver tank up top ,I think yamaha and honda are ugly with transformer looks
👍
In 60s Japanese bike were better than the others. Now chinese or indian are poor, cheaper copies. Price is THE ONLY reason people but them (and create ideology ). I saw last chinese bikes, I rode RE - none of them is european or japanese quality level.
"KTM, BMW are made in Chine". Oh My God; how many times this "argument". These motorcycles were designed by europeans - chinese is only workforce.
IPhone is also chinese product?
Till now chinese are not even able to designe engine - only small cc engines are really chinese.
No, this is not like 60s period - chinese and indian bikes are NOT same.
Motorcycle industry is following the car industry. Just look at the Japnanes offerings compared to what the Chinese are producing and it's only a matter of time before the Japanese will have to start dropping their prices to keep the sales volume up. All if this is great for consumers as the choices widen.
Not really. Nothing like this ahead. Till now korean cars are NOT same as japanese are so chinese will not reach this level for next long decades.
@@podunkman2709 l disagree Korean cars are not on the same level as Japanese cars for durability and reliability worked in Hyundai and Toyota dealership workshops for the last eight years.
Toyota are lightyears ahead for quality control.