Let's Talk About - The State Of Heresy
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2024
- Today, Neil and Reece are joined by Will Henry of The Merchant Princelings podcast to discuss Warhammer: The Horus Heresy. Bits we like, bits we don't and general feelings about the game.
Maybe we'll make it a regular addition to the channel!
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Thanks for watching - Ігри
Close combat weapon upgrade sprues have been on the roadmap since last summer. According to it they're due in the Spring along with a Command Squad.
HH’s acknowledgment of players/hobbyists that are in it for the lore in addition to the power gamers is my favorite part.
I am building my favorite legion as they would be mid/late crusade without concern for having an optimized/power-gamed list. In 40K, that would be a serious blunder. the HH community, from what I have seen, is far more welcoming of thematic lists and the game seems built to support that.
Just really, really bizarre how they claim to have spare production capacity yet can't deliver on kit volume for the systems they're trying to support. Hope it improves, but not much indication it is imo.
Lovely stuff chaps good talking points!
In terms of whats needed model wise
Breachers
Recons
Praetors for each legion
Landspeeders
Ogyrns with melee weapons
Plastic Javelin speeders and Breacher marines are a must!
Interesting takes. Enjoyable to listen to whilst painting
Thanks mate :)
I love the game, we have house rule alot of silly things like artificer sergeants can only tank up to their initiative, nerfed stats on contemptor.
How they havent fixed or nerfed legion traits is beyond me. Fists are OTT and then sallies and tsons just struggle.
We limit reactions to a single squad can only do one reaction per turn to stop spam reactions on one unit as heavy support squads for certain legions can be outrageous with output fire
You missed one glaring topic out completely, and my big bugbear - flyers!
Interceptor as a reaction, fair enough, but the prevalence of Augury Scanners that hand out endless Interceptor reactions for a mere 10pts is something that needs looking at, either some limitations on usage or a big points hike. This combined with the fact you can't react to a reaction leaves flyers vulnerable to the point of them being utterly pointless in game. You guys have commented yourselves when I stopped playing Angels Wrath lists (Reece questioning me where my Storm Eagles were! 😂 ) as it was just no fun as soon as you put Eagles loaded with infantry on the table to immediately remove them again, or to just bring them into your DZ and unload, making you wonder why not deploy normally and use 750pts elsewhere
Interceptor is just one of many of the core rules themselves that need to be addressed. I'm just not very confident that they'll change them. I also use the Panoptica rules, and it's disappointing there how they won't change the core rules either.
You have a good point about flyers! Completely forgot about those. They really need addressing. As it stands they’re too easy to shoot down. Maybe interceptor reactions against a supersonic plane should be snap shots?
Even on snap shots though, I can count a few too many times where a dreadnought (not mortis, just regular) has glanced up at the sky, snap fired, and still dragged a flier down before it was able to do anything... Or what's worse: snipers dragging a flier out of the sky.@@RiftForgeStudio
I've lost my fire raptor gunship to interceptor rule. It's too strong against flyers which are not strong this edition.
Also how we 2 years in and certain legion traits have not been improved or weakened. Tsons and sallies are a struggle to get much out of them where fists get an OTT treatment
Was an interesting listen. As a world eater player i totally agree that weapon sets of close combat weapons should be a thing. 👍🏻.
I think most reactions work fine and are a great dynamic in game.
Return fire is a bit silly for me though with heavy weapons. I fully get that a marine with a Bolter or similar weapon would react in this way to enemy shots and its pretty fluffy.
Would be good if the rule stipulated
Heavy weapons cant be used by infantry to perform that reaction.
Or make it initiative based with heavy weapons counting as initiative 1 (yes even deathguard) so you take damage before return fire occurs. As it stands its simultaneous fire not returning it which is my main issue. If you’ve been caught out and shot you should take the hits then return with what you have left. It would help balance the game out and stop the heavy weapons dominating the game as much as they do at the moment.
Return fire used to bother me a great deal! I’ve gotten used to it now but I do agree that it’s a bit much. I think it’s easy to fix. Suggestions we’ve discussed include:
Making it snap shots with heavy weapons
Making it like vehicles, only S6 or below can return fire.
Making it so they can only do one reaction per turn, not phase. So if they return fire they can’t overwatch, if they intercept, they can’t return fire etc.
I think overall it does need an adjustment, as it’s super-strong, but it also depends on the games you play and the opponents you have. Sometimes people need a bit of self-regulation :)
@@RiftForgeStudio Yeah some good ideas there i’ve adjusted to it as much as i can. Most people i play aren’t power gamers and chainaxes don’t have much range anyway. Maybe one reaction per turn per unit and taking damage before returning shots.
Just on Daemons, triple Sovereigns is super un fun to play against especially with telepathy turning off your reactions and pinning anything that shoots at it, They move super fast, dont die and hit like trucks.
Absolutely. Triple sovereigns is not very strong. Daemons on the whole are a bit of a half-job. Some stuff is good or strong, and other stuff is inexplicably awful. In an army that doesn’t really do shooting, you need a variety of interesting combat choices and this army list misses the mark.
I will disagree with the Intercept point because for me it makes deep strike even more all or nothing. There’s not much point taking a single deep strike unit as it will get shot off the table when it arrives, so you are incentivised to invest more into deep strike, which then makes it even more swingy. It feels like they balanced Intercept around the full deep strike armies, which is fair but discourages having a mixed force.
They'll intercept both units with an auspex 🤷
struggling to listen to this with the audio being what it is :/
Imagine how bad the prices are for people outside the UK! NZD GBP exchange rate is 2 to 1, yet NZD prices are 3.5 x the cost in GBP…
(This in regard to resin super heavies needing to come out in plastic)
Yeah. Everyone that side of the globe really got the sharp end didn’t they? :/
Wasn't expecting reactions being a second-guessing based gotcha minigame to be cited as a point in their favour, but I guess tastes differ.
Interceptor is good because it pushes deepstrikers into the full commit "this single turn two dice roll will decide the game" mode rather than moderate deepstriking. Hmmm.
Really? What don’t you like about it?
Some of them need toning down for sure, but it’s FAR more interactive and interesting than anything in 40K at the moment. I love the fact that I can actually make meaningful choices in my opponent’s turn and not just roll saves and pick my models up.
@@Buffaluffasaurus I didn't make any comment about the power level of them, and "better than 40k" isn't a great metric when they're still worse than mechanics in 1e HH. The issues are that they're a silly mana minigame, that they're mostly just about second-guessing and forgetting, that because of these they completely bog the game down. That's not even to consider the silliness of that one HSS firing three times in a turn but only if your enemy activates them.
HH1 had shooting and charge reactions without any of these problems which people seem to just pretend didn't exist. Could there have been more added? Sure. But they didn't need the stupid mana system added.
Heresy 1.0 is way worse than 2.0, it was a mess @@Orlunu
@@myrar8708 Impressively irrelevant to what you're responding to.